ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/utah-firearms/archive/v02.n147

Internet Message Format | 1999-07-23 | 46KB

From: [e-mail] (utah-firearms-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #147
Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


utah-firearms-digest      Saturday, July 24 1999      Volume 02 : Number 147




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 99 11:22:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: A poll, please pass on

- -----
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:23:54 -0600
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: FW: A poll, please pass on

- ----------

An anti-gunners site is offering a poll...Please take it and post this
address on all other lists everyone is on....

http://www.intecomp.com/csc/
- --------------------------------------------------------
|     Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners     |
| P.O. Box 14014, Lansing, MI 48901. Membership $15/yr. |
|               http://www.mcrgo.org/                   |
- --------------------------------------------------------



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:20:21 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: URGENT! VOTE & LISTEN NOW

Current results look good.  Let's make sure they stay that way.

==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
To All,

KSL radio has a poll:

Did the Utah republicans blow it by not calling for a special legislative
session to deal with gun issues?

http://www.ksl.com/radio/

I wouldn't want to influence your _NO_ vote.

VOTE NOW THE ARE REFERING TO THE VOTE EVERY FEW MINUTES ON THE RADIO!

KSL is talking about the gun issue until noon.  I think the poll only
runs
till then also.


___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:21:27 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: July 21 column -- guns bad

- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: [e-mail] (Vin Suprynowicz)
To: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:10:15 -0700
Subject: July 21 column -- guns bad
Message-ID: <v02130506b3b596426d57@[0.0.0.0]>


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JULY 21, 1999
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    A gunfight on every streetcorner?


    In response to my July 11 column, pointing out there were no serial
killings in Santa Clara, California over the Fourth of July weekend
thanks
to an armed gun-store employee was able to put a stop to a would-be mass
murderer's rampage before it got started, one B.R. wrote in, asserting:

  "So, if'n we arm everyone, we can have real Viet Cong type snipers and
fire fights every Time we get a hankerin. ..."

  I replied:


    #   #  #

  Greetings, B.R. --

  In Switzerland, every head of household -- being a member of the
militia
- -- is expected to keep a machine gun in his home. No one pretends this
right and duty has anything to do with fending off bears or Wild Indians
... or even "legitimate sporting use" (a phrase coined by Joseph
Goebbels.)
Yet firefights are notably rare in that extremely peaceful, modern
industrial nation.

  Before 1912, when there was no "gun control" in this nation and machine
guns could be purchased through the mail, foreign visitors found America
one of the most peaceful and polite nations on earth -- a condition which
six decades of "gun control" and the accompanying Cult of the Omnipotent
State are now, finally, beginning to destroy.

  In Germany and elsewhere in Eastern Europe in the 1920s, most citizens
- --
notably including the Jews -- tried to prove they were "law-abiding" by
turning in their firearms as required by law. Many of them found cause to
regret that decision in the years immediately after 1939. In desperation
and at incalculable expense, the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto did finally
fight a two-month rebellion against their armed oppressors. (Why is it
those who say they "want to get rid of all the guns" can only laugh at
our
silliness when we propose that they start by disarming their own
government
police? Can it be they don't really mean (start ital)everyone(end ital)
would give up their guns, at all -- that they instead mean to duplicate
here the government (start ital)monopoly(end ital) on arms which
prevailed
in Nazi-occupied Europe from 1939 to 1945?)

  Starting on April 19, 1943 (a date which Janet Reno and Bill Clinton
decided to commemorate quite remarkably in 1993), those residents of the
Warsaw ghetto launched a hopeless rebellion with only 14 rifles and fewer
than 50 pistols. (You can still read all about in Leon Uris' great novel,
"Mila 18.") That rebellion nonetheless proved to the world that -- pushed
to the limit -- Jews (start ital)could(end ital) fight to defend their
children and their culture from utter extinction, and fight with nearly
superhuman zeal. It was, in great measure, that demonstration which made
thinkable the birth of the sovereign modern nation of Israel, in 1948.

  (And here we find another nation, by the way -- like peaceful
Switzerland
- -- where no one has to worry any longer about children being shot up by
terrorists or madmen in the schools. And why not? Because the Israelis
finally wised up and issued their teachers semi-automatic pistols, at
which
point terrorism in Israeli schools stopped overnight. Oh, sorry, was I
not
supposed to bother your with any inconvenient facts?)

  Are you saying you believe the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto had no right
to
revolt against those who had imposed "gun control" upon them -- and who
were starving their children, raping their women, shipping off hundreds
of
thousands of their neighbors and family members to the extermination
camps,
and otherwise casually shooting them down in the streets like dogs? That
if
you had it in your power, you would see to it that they started their
revolt with (start ital)fewer(end ital) than 14 rifles and a few dozen
pistols?

  If I had it in my power to go back to that time and place and carry
along
one thing, I would take them a .30-caliber Browning machine gun, and as
many loaded ammo belts as I could carry.

  Instead, I can only strive to prevent it all from happening again ...
here.

  For what are you willing to dedicate your life? To see this becomes a
nation of disarmed slaves, subject to the whim of an armed, para-military
police force? If so, then I am glad to discover I have finally found the
person for whom I was long ago entrusted with a message. It was you, it
turns out, whom Samuel Adams was addressing when he said, at the
Philadelphia State House on August 1, 1776:

  "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We
ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that
ye
were our countrymen."

  You -- the smug, fascist toadie.


Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. His new book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the
Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at $21.95 plus $3 shipping ($6
UPS; $2 shipping each additional copy) through Mountain Media, P.O. Box
271122, Las Vegas, Nev. 89127. The 500-page trade paperback may also be
ordered via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html, or at
1-800-244-2224. Credit cards accepted; volume discounts available.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   [e-mail]

"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John
Hay, 1872

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed --
and
thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless
series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken

* * *


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------
If you have subscribed to [e-mail] and you wish to
unsubscribe,
send a message to [e-mail], from your OLD address,
including
the word "unsubscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line.

To subscribe, send a message to [e-mail], from your
NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks)
in the "Subject" line.

All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my
columns
until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and
that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their
entirety, preserving the original attribution.

The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be
reached directly at [e-mail]. The web sites for the Suprynowicz
column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth
in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at [e-mail].


___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:20:10 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: June 18 column -- summer mreading

- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: [e-mail] (Vin Suprynowicz)
To: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:02:07 -0700
Subject: June 18 column -- summer mreading
Message-ID: <v02130503b3b593d7dbfb@[0.0.0.0]>


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JULY 18, 1999
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Summer reading: Sorry, no elves or unicorns


    This was the week Democratic heir-apparent Al Gore called for the
government registration -- photo ID cards, fingerprinting, the whole nine
yards -- of every handgun owner in America.

  Of course, in a careful minuet, Mr. Gore thus carved out a victim
disarmament position slightly more "moderate" than that of his Democratic
rival, former New Jersey Sen. and NBA Power Forward Bill Bradley, who
surely remembers how to execute the old picket fence.

  Mr. Bradley calls for the federal registration of every single firearm,
historically the last step before confiscation. Presto: Gore the
"Moderate."

  Regular readers will not be distracted by the fancy ball-handling. This
has nothing to do with "reducing crime" -- crime rates are now falling
everywhere, except among police officers, who are now getting dismissed
at
record rates for torturing and murdering innocent "civilians." (But we
wouldn't want to disarm (start ital)them(end ital), surely?)

  Rather, the goal here is to divide America into two classes. One class
will be our rulers and their armed minions, who will dress in battle gear
and carry assault rifles and instruct us in our new duties while being
"protected by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they
should commit on the Inhabitants of these States."

  The second class will be the rest of us -- the tax-paying, disarmed
serfs.

  It was in this context that I sat down to come up with this year's
"Summer Reading List," where regular readers will know better than to
expect any escapist romps soon to star Harrison Ford in a multiplex near
you. (What is with this "Tom Clancy" guy, anyway? Is that actually an
individual, or some sort of collective brand name, like "Pillsbury," or
"Smith & Wesson"?)

  If you haven't read it in 35 years, the most important book you can
pick
up this summer, as we contemplate an America where the armed government
goons will soon gather unrestricted power to have their way with us, is
Leon Uris' classic novel of the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto, "Mila 18."

  What abuses, indignities, and outright tortures will a peaceful people
endure before they finally take up arms in a desperate struggle against
tyranny? (One would be tempted to call it "a hopeless struggle," though
in
fact the ability of a handful of untrained civilians to hold off battle
hardened units of the Wehrmacht for two months in the Warsaw ghetto in
1943
stunned the world, and was in large measure responsible for the fact that
an armed and free state of Israel was even judged feasible.)

  The Bantam paperback edition of "Mila 18" is readily available.

  Not so easy to find, yet, is the thinner new novel "The Mitzvah," by
Aaron Zelman of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership ("Lethal
Laws"), and by veteran novelist and Second Amendment advocate L. Neil
Smith
("Pallas," "The Probability Broach.") "The Mitzvah" recounts the tale of
middle-aged Chicago Catholic priest John Greenwood, who discovers he is
actually a Jewish Holocaust orphan, a revelation that forces him to
rethink
many of his "received" opinions, including the notion that the best
solution to an increasingly violent urban America is further victim
disarmament.

  Mind you, in competition for a permanent place in the literary
pantheon,
"Mila 18" is the heavyweight. But if you're looking for an outreach tool
for folks who might find a modest 243 pages more easily digestible, "The
Mitzvah" is $10.95 postpaid from JPFO, P.O. Box 270143, Hartford, Wisc.
53027.

  On the non-fiction front, we would be remiss not to mention that the
work
of Jim Bovard ("The Fair Trade Fraud") keeps getting better. In his
latest
hardcover, "Freedom in Chains" ($26.95, St. Martin's Press), Jim seems
almost ready to join the radicals, declaring:

  "The achievements of government will be forever limited by the primary
tool of government -- coercion. ... The people are irrevocably labeled as
'free' until the government completely wrecks the economy or slaughters a
statistically significant percentage of the population. People have
worshipped government too long. ... At this point, marginal reforms
should
suffice only for those who believe citizens deserve marginal lives --
lives
consisting of what politicians choose not to confiscate and bureaucrats
deign not to prohibit. To be overgoverned means lives thwarted, hopes
dashed, creativity suppressed, potential squandered, character subverted,
and dignity destroyed."

  By George, I think he's got it.

  Finally, in the video aisle, producer Mike McNulty (the Academy
Award-nominated documentary "Waco: The Rules of Engagement") reports
September is now the target date for release of his sequel, "Waco: A New
Revelation," which promises further documentation of the purposeful use
of
government snipers to keep women and children trapped in the burning
building on the day of the Branch Davidians' final incineration, while
federal agents blocked access to fire engines. (A federal judge in Texas
ruled this month those very charges have sufficient credibility to go
forward at trial, with sniper Lon Horiuchi -- the killer of Vicky Weaver
- --
as a named defendant.)


Vin Suprynowicz, assistant editorial page editor of the Review-Journal,
is
author of the new book "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom
Movement 1993-1998."

***



Vin Suprynowicz,   [e-mail]

"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John
Hay, 1872

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed --
and
thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless
series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken

* * *


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------
If you have subscribed to [e-mail] and you wish to
unsubscribe,
send a message to [e-mail], from your OLD address,
including
the word "unsubscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line.

To subscribe, send a message to [e-mail], from your
NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks)
in the "Subject" line.

All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my
columns
until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and
that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their
entirety, preserving the original attribution.

The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be
reached directly at [e-mail]. The web sites for the Suprynowicz
column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth
in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at [e-mail].


___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:19:41 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: July 11 column -- nothing happens in Santa Clara

- ----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: [e-mail] (Vin Suprynowicz)
To: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:48:20 -0700
Subject: July 11 column -- nothing happens in Santa Clara
Message-ID: <v0213051ab3ac63666f47@[0.0.0.0]>


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JULY 11, 1999
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    No serial killings this week in Santa Clara


    Racist nut Benjamin Nathaniel Smith killed two and wounded nine in a
series of drive-by shootings of blacks, Asian-Americans, and Orthodox
Jews
in Illinois and Indiana before dying in a struggle with police on the
Fourth of July.

  Smith had tried to buy firearms from a federally licensed gun shop in
Illinois on June 23, the AP reports, but was turned down when he failed
the
"background check."

  Did he lie when filling out the federal form? Of course -- all such
forms
ask whether the applicant is under a court restraining order. Is lying on
that form a federal felony? It is. Did anyone try to detain, locate,
arrest, or prosecute this would-be killer in the ensuing 11 days? Of
course
not.

  So -- confirming the fact that such "gun control" laws never work
(confirming, in fact, that the folks who pass them have no intention of
(start ital)trying(end ital) to make them work, counting on their
predictable failure to justify further steps to disarm law-abiding folk
by
making gun ownership even (start ital)more(end ital) expensive,
inconvenient, and embarrassing), Smith remained free to buy pistols in
.22
and .380 caliber -- not "assault weapons," as some would have it --
illegally, from an unlicensed dealer already under investigation by the
BATF.

  Now, Benjamin Nathaniel Smith's insane crime spree brings predictable
calls for more "gun control."

  What do they propose to do: make it illegal to buy guns illegally?

  Meantime, no one mentions that again, as in Colin Ferguson's terrible
shooting spree on the Long Island Railroad a few years back (in a
jurisdiction where none of the victims were allowed to carry arms), and
as
in the worst American mass shooting in recent memory, in which 23
occupants
of the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas were shot down like dogs
because
state law required them to leave their firearms out in their cars ...
none
of Benjamin Nathaniel Smith's victims were armed.

  Such squirrelly characters are cowards at heart. Would someone like
Benjamin Nathaniel Smith even have (start ital)attempted(end ital) such a
thing if it were known that as many as 30 percent of blacks,
Asian-Americans, and Orthodox Jews in the Midwest were now carrying
concealed weapons, and had received training in how to use them? No.

  Yet instead of urging more folks to buy and carry guns and learn how to
use them, the "reformers" can only think of ways to create more disarmed
victims!

  "Oh, being armed is no solution," the mincing minions of genocide will
surely simper. "The bad guy will only take your gun away and use it on
you."

  OK: Let's take a look at what really happened last week when the
intended
victim of such a would-be shooter turned out to be armed:

  Reuters reported on July 6 from Santa Clara, California:

  "A shoot-out at a California shooting range ended a bizarre hostage
drama
during which three gun store employees found themselves staring down the
barrel of one of their own rented rifles, police said Tuesday.

  "Sgt. Anton Morec of the Santa Clara Police Department said the
aspiring
gunman, 21-year-old Richard Gable Stevens ... 'intended to go out in a
blaze of glory,' noting Stevens had accumulated more than 100 rounds of
ammunition for his rented 9mm semi-automatic weapon.

  " 'It certainly looks like he intended to take a lot more people out.'

  "Morec said Stevens arrived at the National Shooting Club Monday
evening
and rented the rifle for target practice. ... After several minutes on
the
range, however, Stevens returned to the club's gun store and shot at the
ceiling. He then herded three store employees out the door into an alley,
saying he intended to kill them.

 "Unknown to Stevens, one store employee was carrying a .45 caliber
handgun
concealed beneath his shirt. When Stevens looked away, the employee
fired,
hitting Stevens several times in the chest and bringing him to the
ground."

  After police arrived, Stevens was taken to a hospital, where he was
listed in critical condition. Finding a note from Stevens to his parents,
predicting they would be bankrupted by lawsuits from the relatives of his
intended "victims," police concluded "The quick action by the gun club
employee may have headed off a massacre," Reuters reports.

  Yet which case made the front pages and the evening news -- the tragedy
with the unarmed victims, or the story that proves, not in theory but in
real life, the best way to (start ital)stop(end ital) such crimes before
they start?

  Speaking of the 1991 Luby's cafeteria massacre, Dr. Suzanna Gratia Hupp
was there. She had left her firearm in her car, as required by law. She
therefore had to watch both her father and mother -- along with 21 others
- -- butchered before her eyes. Dr. Hupp, who won election to the Texas
legislature in 1996 on a "right to self-defense" platform, will speak on
the Second Amendment and recent calls for more victim disarmament at the
monthly breakfast of the Nevada Republican Liberty Caucus, 7:30 a.m.
Monday
July 12, at the Country Inn in Green Valley.

  Tickets are $25; call Chuck Muth to see if any spaces are still open:
[phone].


Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. His new book, "Send in the Waco Killers" is available at
$21.95 plus $3 shipping through Mountain Media, P.O. Box 271122, Las
Vegas,
Nev. 89127, or at 1-800-244-2224.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   [e-mail]

"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John
Hay, 1872

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed --
and
thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless
series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken

* * *


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------
If you have subscribed to [e-mail] and you wish to
unsubscribe,
send a message to [e-mail], from your OLD address,
including
the word "unsubscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line.

To subscribe, send a message to [e-mail], from your
NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks)
in the "Subject" line.

All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my
columns
until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and
that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their
entirety, preserving the original attribution.

The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be
reached directly at [e-mail]. The web sites for the Suprynowicz
column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth
in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at [e-mail].


___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 99 18:48:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: No Rest for the Righteous

Jim Dexter provides:

- -----
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:12:32 -0600
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: FW: No Rest for the Righteous

To All:

With God's help; we've won this round and have stopped the special session.
But we have only won a defensive action -- a retreat.  With our backs to
the wall, we have only slowed the enemy down in their unrelenting attacks
on our freedom.

The question is: Are we going to pat ourselves on the back now and go back
to sleep?  Will we sit back again and wait for the enemy to inevitably
force us into another corner?

WAKE UP!!!  Now is the time to go on the offensive, not sit in complacency
while the more-persistent liberals are plotting their next strike!

Everyone within the reach of this e-mail must DO the following:

1) Thank and reinforce those legislators who stood fast (or at least tried)
in the face of Leavitt's and the media's onslaught to rob us of our rights;

2) Find out the locations of the upcoming regional meetings on gun control
and absolutely stack them!  Post these regional meeting locations and times
on e-mail so we can help each other;

3) Build your circles of influence now WHILE WE STILL HAVE TIME!  We need
to multiply our numbers and add bodies to the fight!  Find 5 new people to
help you fight this fight.  Organize your 5-man team via the e-mail or some
other convenient mechanism;

4) Locate and commit a candidate in every state house and senate district
of those who are pushing this crap.  In addition, think about lining up a
third party candidate to at least knock out the really big losers like
Patrice Arent, Adolf Buckner, etc. (if you have questions on who other big
losers are, let me know).  Work with these third party folks to steal the
5-10 percent neccessary to help knock these jerks out!;

5) For you partisan-types, stack your party's caucuses NOW!!!  Don't wait
until next year to start thinking about this!  NOW IS THE TIME!  If you
don't know how, ask;

Patton's guiding philosophy was simple:  Always attack; never defend.
We have found the gap in Leavitt's armor and must now drive the sword into
his heart!  Each of us must now attack with everything we personally have
- -- or watch helplessly as Leavitt and his liberal band of gangsters pat
each other on the back this January!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:42:39 -0600
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Fw: The Filibuster Is * On *

==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gun Owners of America <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 6:02 PM
Subject: The Filibuster Is * On *


>Senator Smith Throws Down the Gauntlet!
>  -- Stands up to Trent Lott by forcing filibuster on anti-gun crime
>bill
>
>Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
>8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
>Phone: [phone] / FAX: [phone]
>http://www.gunowners.org
>
>(Friday, July 23, 1999) -- Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS) has set
>the Senate wheels in motion for a series of votes to stop Senator
>Bob Smith's filibuster on the juvenile crime legislation.  The first
>vote has been set for Monday, July 26.
>
>So far, Senator Smith (I-NH) has prevented any progress on the
>anti-gun crime bill by promising to use the ancient art of
>"filibuster."   Yesterday, that promise became reality when Smith
>objected to a motion by Sen. Lott to move the bill along.
>
>This is truly a David v. Goliath stand-off.  The Senate leadership,
>led by the Majority Leader, is trying to roll Senator Smith and
>bring his delaying tactics to an end.
>
>Of course, Senator Lott must first clear at least six parliamentary
>"hurdles" that have been erected by Senator Smith.
>
>The key vote will occur on Wednesday or Thursday when the Senate
>will determine whether the Gore/Lautenberg gun control crime bill
>(S. 254) will move forward.
>
>That vote will be on an effort to shut down debate on Sen. Smith's
>filibuster-- known in Washington as "invoking cloture" on the
>filibuster-- and will decide whether Sen. Lott can substitute the
>virulently anti-gun crime bill (S. 254) in lieu of the crime bill
>that was passed by the House.
>
>Eventually, Senator Lott wants to send the crime legislation to a
>House-Senate conference committee to iron out the differences
>between the two bills.  But that can only come after he's cleared
>the Smith "hurdles"-- a process that should take several days.  Lott
>can clear each one of these hurdles with a 60-vote majority in the
>Senate.
>
>If that happens, President Clinton will be one step closer to
>signing a crime bill that is replete with gun bans and gun owner
>registration.
>
>But if our side gets 41 votes at any point along the way, then
>Senate rules will allow Smith to continue filibustering the bill--
>which could entail his standing on the Senate floor and reading long
>passages from a library of pro-gun literature.  You may want to tape
>this from C-Span and label it "Second Amendment books on tape by
>Senator Smith."
>
>Smith is willing to do that.  He is committed to doing whatever it
>takes to defend the 2nd Amendment.  But he needs 40 other Senators
>to stand with him!
>
>Again, Monday's vote will begin a whole series of votes on this
>issue.  Each one is slightly different, and GOA will do its best to
>keep you informed as to what is coming down the pike.
>
>Until then, please start asking your Senators to support the Smith
>filibuster.
>
>Senator Smith is without question THE defender of 2nd Amendment
>rights in the Senate.  Tell your Senator that you would like him or
>her to follow Smith's lead on the upcoming series of votes.
>
>CONTACT INFORMATION:
>
>   * Toll-free at 1-888-449-3511.  [Please be patient when calling
>this number; sometimes it rings for quite a while.  But they will
>answer!]
>   * The regular Capitol Switchboard number is 202-224-3121.
>   * Fax and e-mail contact info is available at
>http://www.gunowners.org/s106th.htm on the GOA webpage.
>
>
>P.S.  There has been quite a bit of confusion in the media as to
>what is actually transpiring on Monday.  Some in the media are
>reporting that Monday's vote is about the appointment of Senate
>conferees.  This is incorrect.  Technically speaking, the purpose
>for Monday's vote in the Senate is to bring up the House crime bill
>(H.R. 1501) for debate.  As stated above, Lott eventually wants to
>appoint conferees, but that will only happen if he can overcome
>every Smith filibuster.
>
>
>**************
>Cheaper Than Dirt donates a percentage of your total order to GOA if
>you use http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/goa.htm to enter their online
>store.
>
>**************
>Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to
>date information, please consider subscribing to the GOA E-Mail
>Alert Network directly. There is no cost or obligation, and the
>volume of mail is quite low. To subscribe, simply send a message to
>[e-mail] and include the state in which you live, in
>either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert
>and ask to be removed.
>
>


___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 99 22:39:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: Interim report and ACTION ITEMS 1/2

Jim Dexter provides (from whom?):

- -----
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:38:55 -0600
From: "Jim Dexter" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: FW: Interim report and ACTION ITEMS

- ----------

What you won't read in the newspapers....  (This is an extremely biased
report; but at least I admit it!)

The most offensive thing about the committee hearings, as always, was the
list of people who were on the agenda to "speak officially".  With the
exception of Prof. John Lott, Jr., every single speaker was an unelected
bureaucrat.  Each one of these people is supported fully by OUR tax
dollars.  Each one advocated expanded funding for his or her department
(more taxes!), expanded power for the government, and the revocation of the
constitutional rights of citizens.  Each one stated that s/he "knows best"
what "is good for us", and that we are too stupid to manage our own lives,
make our own decisions, or rear our own children.  While these people were
given nearly unlimited time to espouse their socialist agendas, members of
the public were given only a minute or two to express their thoughts and
opinions.  If you find this as offensive as I do, please let your
legislators know that you would like them to conduct official business with
more respect for the citizens who elect them and pay their salaries!

EDUCATION COMMITTEE

Speakers:  Steve Laing, Superintendent of Public Instruction who espoused
the usual party line of giving government control of children and banning
guns from schools.

Rich West, Center for the School of the Future (USU) who spoke about CSF's
successful pilot program for reducing violence and helping "at-risk"
students.  Interestingly, West repeatedly made the point that coercion is
counterproductive and creates resistance, while respect and trust encourage
cooperation and promote safe behavior.  Unfortunately, neither he, nor the
committee members, were able to extrapolate this to conclude that treating
law abiding gun owners with respect and trust, instead of threatening them
with arrest and revoking their rights, might actually make our schools
safer and go a long way toward ending the current hostilities.  Why we
should treat juvenile delinquents with respect while treating law-abiding
adults as criminals is beyond me!

Susan Burke, Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice, who spoke about
various programs to deal with violence and "at-risk" youth.  Ms. Burke did
a responsible job of pointing out that programs need to be evaluated
objectively, and that program _design_ needs to be evaluated independently
of the success of charismatic program members.  While she advocates
increased spending (big surprise!), she did have good suggestions for doing
so in a more responsible manner.

John Watson, Chairman, State Board of Education, who read an amazingly
offensive statement calling for a total ban on firearms in schools and on
school premises, except, of course, for law enforcement officers.
Verne Larsen, State Office of Education who talked a lot and didn't say
anything that made any sense, at least to me.  He did state that the two
words students overwhelmingly use to describe school are "boring" and
"sucks".  (Could it be that the real problems are public schools and the
UEA, and not guns?)

Jill Kennedy (?) State Board of Education, who actually testified that if
she brought a gun to school she would be dead because the students would
murder her to get it!

No one explained (nor did anyone ask) why "serious and habitual offenders"
are still attending classes at public schools where they endanger other
students.

Rep. David Jones, who once again presented his proposed legislation calling
for a ban on guns in schools, churches, houses of worship, and private
residences.  Based on a quick reading, this was identical to his previous
bills on the subject.  Once again he demanded that anyone who has a gun
announce it before entering his home, because he's too lazy (or is it
cowardly?) to ask.  Does he really think that a criminal is going to
announce his intent?  (Why aren't gun RIGHTS advocates this stubborn and
persistent?!)

Members of the public were allowed to speak for one minute each, and the
majority of speakers opposed both Jones's bill and a ban on concealed
firearms (carried by those with permits) on school property.  Speakers
included Scott Engen (GOUtah!), Bill Clayton (GOUtah!), Terry Trease,
Sarah Thompson, Ruth Andrus, and Dave Hansen.  (Apologies to anyone
I forgot!  You were great!)  USSC apparently did not know about this
meeting, and so was not represented.

Jones's legislation was rejected by the committee.  Following that, the
committee debated a list of 16 proposed "solutions to school violence",
debating gun control proposals and other proposals separately.  The gun
control proposals were defeated.  Several other proposals, including
sharing records between schools and law enforcement, increasing counseling
services, etc. were passed.  (I don't yet have an accurate list of which
ones were passed.  Most of them appeared to be expensive "feel-good"
measures intended to show that "the legislature is doing something".)

Friends on the committee who particularly deserve your thanks: Rep. Matt
Throckmorton, Rep. Bill Wright, Rep. Tammy Rowan, Rep. Nora Stephens.
(The vote was straight party line, so all Republican members of the
committee deserve credit!)


JUDICIARY COMMITTEE

The Judiciary Committee considered two proposals, which Gov. Leavitt had
requested be considered as one proposed bill.  Sen. Terry Spencer refused
to allow consideration of a ban on guns in schools because the Education
Committee had rejected the proposal just a few hours earlier.

The first proposal was to make it easier to commit persons to a mental
institution, by removing the criterion that the person pose an immediate
danger to himself or others and including such vague criteria as posing a
non-immediate danger (at anytime in the future!), will suffer severe and
abnormal mental or emotional distress, will experience deterioration in
ability to function, and anti-social behavior.  (As one committee member
pointed out, this would include failure to pay child support in a timely
manner!  Another example offered by Dr. Meredith Alden of the Department
of Mental Health, was a "mentally ill" woman who engaged in prostitution.)

Of course commitment to a mental institution (whether or not it was
appropriate, and whether or not the person has recovered) results in a
lifetime ban on firearms ownership.
[ Continued In Next Message... ]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 99 22:39:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: Interim report and ACTION ITEMS 2/2

[ ...Continued From Previous Message ]
Who's mentally ill?  Everyone did their best to ignore this issue.  But
the written statement from Robin Arnold-Williams, Executive Director of
the Department of Human Services reads: "Severe mental disorder" means
schizophrenia, major depression, bipolar disorder, delusional disorders,
psychotic disorders, and _other mental disorders as defined by the
board_.  In other words, if DHS _says_ you're mentally ill, you are!

Testifying for Gov. Leavitt's proposal were Meredith Alden, Director of
the Utah Division of Mental Health, Camille Anthony of the Commission
on Criminal and Juvenile Justice (I think!) and another woman whose name
I didn't get.  (No printed agenda was available.)

The arrogant paternalism (maternalism?) of these women was appalling;
they know what's best for everyone.  Rights are irrelevant and so is
any research that contradicts their agenda.  Alden seemed particularly
confused, alternately stating that the proposal was intended to "help
people" and that violence was a peripheral issue, and stating that the
proposal was necessary to "protect the public health" from violent
mentally ill people.  (Of course hauling someone off to a mental hospital
at gunpoint, restraining him and drugging him is an odd approach to "help".
And there isn't any evidence that mentally ill people who are not
substance abusers are more violent than the general public.

Those who testified against this proposal included Ruth Andrus, John
Spangler of USSC, and Sarah Thompson.  (Again apologies to anyone I forgot!)

The committee voted not to change the criteria for involuntary
commitment.  However they did approve a proposal to allow BCI to access
records of involuntary commitments for the purpose of background
checks.  Although in my opinion this is wrong because there is no
provision for due process petitioning for restoration of rights, its hard
to argue with the committee's action since this is already existing law,
and they were only making it possible for BCI to check for commitments.

The next proposal was to expand the criteria for revocation of firearms
rights for "attempt to commit a felony" or a "violent misdemeanor".  A
felony conviction has been the standard for revocation of rights since the
founding of this nation, but that's no longer "good enough" in this age of
plea-bargaining.  The prosecutors say that actually prosecuting violent
felons is "too expensive".  And actually proving their case is also too
difficult and expensive, so they even suggested punishing people based on
the _charges filed_, instead of the actual conviction.  (Imagine being
charged with attempted murder for driving too fast, being convicted of
speeding, and having your rights revoked for a speeding ticket because you
were _charged_ with a felony!)

The violent felony nonsense is just as bad.  Examples of "violent felonies"
include: criminal mischief, damage to or interruption of a communications
device, false alarm, harassment, interference with a public servant,
obstructing justice, carrying a concealed weapon (so much for permitless
carry!), domestic abuse in the presence of a child (yelling at your spouse
if your kids can hear it), cruelty to animals, and improper sales of
crystal iodine.

The intent of Gov. Leavitt's proposed legislation is clear.  Since he can't
get away with banning guns outright, he intends to make it impossible for
anyone to qualify to own one.  So even if you're a law-abiding, responsible
citizen, you can be declared mentally ill, or be disqualified based on a
trivial offense with a vague definition.  And should you manage to qualify,
it will be illegal to actually carry the gun anywhere outside of your own
locked bathroom.

The committee voted to "further study" this issue because the meeting
started 1.5 hours late and didn't have time to discuss it fully.  There
also wasn't time for public comment, but Chairman Spencer did say that he
will accept written comments from the public.  (Sen. Terry Spencer, 319
State Capitol, SLC 84114-0111 or Fax to 801-538-1414)

Friends on the committee who deserve your thanks:  David Ure, Glenn Way,
David Gladwell, Chair Terry Spencer, and John Swallow.  (Rep. Swallow
needs to hear from some friendly people who can educate him so he stops
embarrassing himself by saying things like "Getting guns out of the hands
of the mentally ill will stop gun violence".)

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE

I did not attend this meeting which was so packed that people were lined
up in the hall outside.  Hopefully someone who did will provide us with
a more detailed report.  From what I heard, Prof. John Lott, Jr. did an
excellent job of presenting his research showing that concealed carry laws
prevent violent crime, and that concealed carry decreases multiple-victim
shootings. We can only hope that our legislators paid attention!
Apparently no specific legislation was discussed at this meeting.

If you would like additional information on Prof. Lott's research, the gun
violence and mental illness issue, or the proposed legislation, please let
me know.  (Plans are afoot for getting much of this information on the Web
soon!)

If you have additions, corrections, clarifications, etc. please let me know.
I make no claims to being a perfect reporter, and will happily and promptly
correct errors.

PLEASE REMEMBER TO:
1. Thank friendly legislators.  These folks really went out on a limb by
openly opposing Gov. Leavitt and they need to know that we appreciate them
and will do what we can to help them in the future.  Speaker Marty Stephens
in particular deserves our thanks.
2. Make sure you call and/or write to Sen. Spencer and other members of the
Judiciary Committee and let them know that revocation of rights based on
misdemeanor violations is not even remotely acceptable and should be
rejected outright.
3. Let the liberal media, all of whom are whining about "evil Republicans
who support murdering children", know that legislators did the right thing,
and back up your claims with scientific research.
4. Educate your friends, relatives, co-workers, etc. and get them involved.
5. Start planning and organizing now for the next caucuses, elections and
general session!

Thanks also to GOUtah! for their excellent alerts, testimony, and badges
for gun rights supporters and to USSC for hosting Prof. Lott.  (I don't
know for sure who contacted him and arranged this.)  And thanks to each
and every one of you who called, wrote, attended, testified, organized,
and otherwise worked to protect and defend our freedom.



- -

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #147
***********************************