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- From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest)
- To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com
- Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #132
- Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest
- Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com
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-
-
- utah-firearms-digest Thursday, March 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 132
-
-
-
-
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 20:47:00 -0700
- From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON)
- Subject: NRA'99: What Happened to the 1998 Member Initiated Bylaw Amendments?
-
- Forwarded by: chasm@insync.net (schuetzen) and Gary Westfall
- <garyw@uswest.net>
-
- On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:48:12 -0500,
- "Dean Speir" <DeanSpeir@prodigy.net> wrote:
-
- As the 1999 NRA Board of Directors campaign winds down, there is one
- issue which has yet to be addressed by NRA or any of the current Board,
- and that is what happened to the seven members-initiated NRA Bylaw
- Amendments which were to have been discussed and voted on at the last
- membership meeting in Philadelphia.
-
- Instead, Director Oliver North, seemingly stooging for "The Winning
- Team" triumvirate of out-going President Marion Hammer, Executive V.P.
- Wayne LaPierre and the Charlton Heston/Angus McQueen (Mercury Group)
- entry, stepped to an open microphone and moved that the meeting be
- closed. This was quickly followed by a second from former NRA President,
- Joe Foss, an NRA icon, and Ms. Hammer was quick to gavel the proceedings
- to an early close. Some of the movers of the ByLaw amendments like Joe
- Tartaro, one of the architects of the celebrated "Cincinnati Reforms"
- of 1977, were left at dead microphones.
-
- Those initiatives, five of which were actually on the ballot, were
- "referred to the Board for consideration" by outgoing President Hammer.
-
- The problem is, that under the laws of incorporation of the State of
- New York (where NRA is chartered), the Bylaws can ONLY BE AMENDED BY
- THE MEMBERSHIP, and not by the Board of Directors.
-
- There are other considerations at work as well, but that action
- alone and the "circular-filing" of legally presented amendments in
- contravention of NRA's own bylaws, are reason enough to suggest that
- something unwholesome is at work within NRA, something which does not
- trust its general membership to respond to anything which has not been
- spoon-fed to them by The Winning Team.
-
- This isn't a "dissident faction" (read "Knoxite") versus "The Winning
- Team" deal... Neal Knox and his merrie band of hard corps Second
- Amendment faithful had their shot and, for whatever reasons, blew it.
- They let NRA staff and at least one of NRA's vendors run rough-shod
- over the organization and ultimately lost control of matters.
-
- It's really about how the general membership is going to make
- themselves heard and their wishes known to the leadership of NRA,
- a leadership (and staff) which is running the Board of Directors
- rather than the other way around. A leadership (and staff) which
- is (and there's no other word for it) profligate with the money
- the membership is continually sending them in response to a steady
- barrage of insultingly witless fund solicitations disguised as "polls"
- and "membership surveys," and cries for "emergency financial help"
- wrapped in certified mailings!
-
- Look closely sometime at where that membership money is going!
- And not just the little stuff such as those dreadful solicitations
- and appeals, but some of the little known "big ticket items." Ask
- yourself why the NRA needs to expend enormous sums to prop up
- personality-oriented organizations such as Marion Hammer's USF,
- or Roy Innis' CORE, or LeRoy Pyle's LEAA.
-
- But you can't ask this of The Winning Team leadership, because your
- microphone will be cut off and others will be informed that you are
- a "malcontent" or a "rabble-rouser."
-
- And you can't ask this of the bulk of the current Board of Directors,
- since they either don't know, or they are too frightened for their
- continued political existence to answer honestly and openly. Those who
- don't absolutely toe The Winning Team line are not only not supported
- for re-election, they are actively campaigned against and listed in the
- "Do Not Vote For" column.
-
- Study that list of 14 names closely... sure, Sally Drews Brodbeck
- was one of the Knox faithful whose husband got into an ugly physical
- confrontation with one of Marion Hammer's "security guards" in
- Philadelphia last June, and Howard Fezell was the prime mover in the
- successful lawsuit a year ago which forced The Winning Team to obey its
- own bylaws... they are both naturals for the "Do Not Vote For" list.
-
- But what about people such as Bob Hodgdon and Glen Voorhees? What does
- one suppose that their transgressions were which landed them on The
- Winning Team's "enemies list." (And make no mistake, that extraordinary
- Do Not Vote For column is an "enemies list" in the disgraceful tradition
- of the Nixon administration's darker side.)
-
- The Fitzgerald v. NRA decision (available upon request) of 1974 was
- very clear that NRA cannot use "corporate instrumentalities" (read:
- "The American Rifleman" at the time, now also "The American Hunter"
- and "The American Guardian") to influence corporate elections:
-
- "The principles enunciated above make it clear that officers and
- directors cannot utilize corporate instrumentalities such as
- The American Rifleman to perpetuate themselves in office."
- [383 F.Supp. 162, United States District Court, D. New Jersey;
- Thomas FITZGERALD, a New Jersey Citizen, et al., Plaintiffs, v.
- The NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, a New York corporation,
- Defendant. Civ. A. No. 772-73.]
-
- This is very much at the root of the sole Bylaw Amendment on this
- year's ballot... those who control the NRA publications control how the
- membership which bothers to vote, votes. The rest of the time leadership
- and staff are content to treat the membership like mushrooms: kept in
- the dark and fed the occasional shovelful of horse manure... except for
- the regularly scheduled pleas for money.
-
- Passage of this year's Bylaw Amendment will make it even harder for
- anyone who has not curried favor with leadership and staff to make a
- meaningful run for the Board of Directors. And without strong, independent
- voices on the already over-sized BoD, we will continue to see an NRA
- which is out of the control of its members, and wholly in the grasp of
- self-interested leadership, staff and vendors on the NRA's teat.
-
- There should be one and only one agenda of the NRA, and that is
- preserving our Second Amendment rights and firearms heritage. And I
- don't see as how the Brady Law, the Assault Weapons portion of the
- Crime Bill, the Lautenberg Amendment or regional atrocities such as
- Prop. 17 in Pennsylvania (never mind the Utah/Olympic fiasco) can be
- anything but antithetical to those objectives.
-
- But that's what our recently constituted NRA has brought us. It's about
- "power"... damn the original objective... "we can deal with the gun rights
- stuff later, let's just stay on top in the NRA, and if we have to dirty
- up some soon-to-be-former friends and colleagues," [shrug] "ecccch."
-
- Well, that's not the NRA to which I signed on for Life.
-
- Please, study the bios and ballots carefully, and if there's things
- which seem strange to you, ask some tough questions about them,
- especially if you have access to any of those who are running for the
- BoD this year! Don't be content with the horse manure spoon-fed you by
- The Winning Team in the publications, fund solicitations and NRA-ILA
- fax alerts.
-
- The completed NRA 1999 Ballots must be received by 11 April in order
- to have them counted. Time is running out.
-
- - - Dean Speir, Life NRA
- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
- It's not a perfect world out there... it's why we _have_ guns!
-
- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Internet: garyw@uswest.net (Gary Westfall)
- AirPower Information Services The Pro-freedom Online Service, since 1989!
- BBS:610-259-2193 Telnet://airpower.dynip.com ftp://ftp.airpower.dynip.com
- http://www.airpower.com http://www.airpower.dynip.com
- This message was processed by AirPower's NetXpress Server.
-
-
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 20:47:00 -0700
- From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON)
- Subject: Okay, let's put a stop to this! 1/2
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:48:52 -0500
- From: jurist@attymail.com
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: Okay, let's put a stop to this!
-
- "Still if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win
- without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be
- sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have
- to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance
- for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when
- there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than
- to live as slaves." -- Winston Churchill.
- http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/politics/quotes/freedom.html
-
- RKBA Defenders,
-
- It is one thing for the relatively few American citizens who subscribe
- to the RKBA Listserv to share this information amongst ourselves. It is
- another to convey this information back to Congress and let them know
- that we seek action on this matter.
-
- The rule of the squeaky wheel holds true in politics and this is no
- time for us to remain silent. Please contact your Congresscritters.
-
- I've written a letter which you may wish to cut and paste to the GOA
- mass- mailer for U.S. Congress. Also, you can select all Senators
- and/or Representatives by doing a right-button click, holding it down
- and scrolling down the address list.
- http://www.gunowners.org/mailerx.html
-
- We must put a stop to this now, rather than face the consequences later.
-
- In Liberty,
-
- Rick V.
- - -----------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Dear Senator,
-
- I am very, very alarmed by reports coming in from Texas, Massachusetts,
- Maryland, Ohio, California and from many other states.
-
- The U.S. military (the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment
- Airborne, Combat Applications Group, CAG, or "Night Stalkers" --
- commonly referred to as "Delta Force") is conducting night-time
- practice assaults on civilian areas using night vision devices,
- unmarked helicopters and, in at least some instances, live ammunition.
-
- There was and is no need to conduct operations anywhere close to
- civilian-occupied areas -- unless the purpose is to get civilians
- used to night-time raids, or worse yet, to prepare for these troops
- for actual operations AGAINST CIVILIANS.
-
- This is highly alarming and extremely dangerous. The potential for
- military mishaps, such as the helicopter crash that ended the failed
- Iranian Hostage rescue attempt at "Desert One," or stray live rounds
- hitting civilians is tremendous. As great as this risk is, it is not
- the most dangerous aspect.
-
- What possible objective can these raids have other than to be setting
- the stage for the implementation of Clinton's Executive Orders, which
- the House and Senate have failed to stop?
-
- You MUST initiate an investigation into the matter and put a stop to
- this! The American armed services are meant to protect and serve the
- U.S. Constitution and the citizens of the United States. This series
- of raids works directly against both missions.
-
- These raids, coupled with their likely purpose and the unconstitutional,
- unilateral and secret attempt by Clinton to absolve these specialized
- troops under Presidential Decision Directive 25, sets the stage for a
- military seizure of power.
-
- He is purporting to grant authority he himself cannot give. Every
- elected official, soldier and law enforcement officer has sworn an
- oath to "uphold and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign
- and domestic." By attempting to release elite fighting units from
- the constraints of the Constitution, Clinton is violating his Oath,
- attacking the Constitution he has sworn to uphold, and threatens to
- unleash brutal, unchecked, deadly force against American civilians.
-
- According to the sources cited below, the 160th Group has been granted
- authority to do just about anything with total immunity from the law,
- including the Posse Comitatus Act. "They will follow and do whatever the
- president tells them to do. In that regard, they are somewhat
- dangerous," stated one source.
-
- I urge you to put a stop to these operations; to repeal PDD 25 and all
- other similar assaults on our Constitution.
-
- Ours is a nation of laws. The President cannot be allowed to write laws
- unilaterally, or in secret, or those which purport to absolve his
- hand-picked henchmen of legal liability. PDD 25 is the worst of all
- worlds rolled into one. You must put a stop to this NOW.
-
- Respectfully submitted,
-
- Richard E. Vaughan, Esq.
-
-
- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:42:03 -0500
- From: Joe Sylvester <joesylvester@texoma.net>
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: Re: Okay, let's put a stop to this!
-
- At 10:48 AM 3/22/99 -0500, jurist@attymail.com, wrote:
-
- >The U.S. military (the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment
- >Airborne, Combat Applications Group, CAG, or "Night Stalkers" --
- >commonly referred to as "Delta Force") is conducting night-time practice
- >assaults on civilian areas using night vision devices, unmarked
- >helicopters and, in at least some instances, live ammunition.
-
- The 160 Special Operations Aviation Regiment/Night Stalkers and Delta Force
- are *not* the same unit, as you seem to indicate. The 160th is based at Ft.
- Campbell while Delta is based at Ft. Bragg. The 160th are the taxi drivers
- for Delta and other units, as well as their "eyes in the sky".
-
- >He is purporting to grant authority he himself cannot give. Every
- >elected official, soldier and law enforcement officer has sworn an oath
- >to "uphold and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and
- >domestic." By attempting to release elite fighting units from the
-
- That should be "against all enemies, foreign and domestic"
-
- >constraints of the Constitution, Clinton is violating his Oath,
- >attacking the Constitution he has sworn to uphold, and threatens to
- >unleash brutal, unchecked, deadly force against American civilians.
-
- If you want to turn off your CongressCritter, one sure way is not to have
- all your facts straight, especially those that are easily verified (in the
- articles you referance in fact)
-
- The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution.
- - ---Doug McKay" <mckay003_AT_maroon.tc.umn.edu>
-
- Joe Sylvester
- Don't Tread On Me !
-
- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Internet: joesylvester@texoma.net (Joe Sylvester)
- AirPower Information Services The Pro-freedom Online Service, since 1989!
- BBS:610-259-2193 Telnet://airpower.dynip.com ftp://ftp.airpower.dynip.com
- http://www.airpower.com http://www.airpower.dynip.com
- This message was processed by AirPower's NetXpress Server.
- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:45:34 -0500
- From: jurist@attymail.com
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: Re: Okay, let's put a stop to this!
-
- Joe Sylvester wrote:
-
- >The 160 Special Operations Aviation Regiment/Night Stalkers and Delta
- >Force are *not* the same unit, as you seem to indicate. The 160th is
- >based at Ft. Campbell while Delta is based at Ft. Bragg. The 160th are
- >the taxi drivers for Delta and other units, as well as their "eyes in
- >the sky".
- [ Continued In Next Message... ]
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 20:47:00 -0700
- From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON)
- Subject: Okay, let's put a stop to this! 2/2
-
- [ ...Continued From Previous Message ]
- Jurist responds:
-
- Okay...
- ...you might want to take a look at all the URLs I posted at the bottom
- of the message. The articles cited to in the URLs go into greater depth
- in unit identification -- that's why they are included. There certainly
- is a distinction between the various units, be they Delta, Special
- Forces, Rangers, et cetera.
-
- Point of fact, the Night Stalkers have been identified by the sources,
- once again, --- in the URLs -- as being involved with the night-time NVG
- raids, but Marine and Navy units have also been involved in night urban
- assaults as well (Laser Cup, Last Dance, what have you).
-
- Many units are involved, some of which have yet to be identified, due to
- OPSEC and lack of unit markings on the aircraft. For example:
-
- "H Howard Lewis Bloom" <h.howard.lewis.bloom@pc-man.com>
- pa-rkba@mailman.pobox.com wrote:
-
- >"I'm a pilot. I flew out to Lancaster (LNS) a few months back to practice
- >some in pattern emergencies and had to taxi around "Crystal 17". Crystal
- >17 was what they called themselves and what the tower called them. There
- >were no markings on this black helicopter, no markings at all. I have no
- >idea who they were, or what they were doing, as there was absolutely no
- >way to identify them save for their own identification of "Crystal 17"."
-
- Reports have come in concerning even National Guard units. They range
- from plans to activate all units and have them standing by for New
- Year's Eve 2000, to withdrawal of ammunition from NG units, to
- stockpiling of MRE's. Indeed, last year many Eastern European units
- were reported as undergoing joint operations with Marines in my old
- stomping grounds of Camp Lejeune, NC.
-
- Splitting hairs over First Battalion or Second Regiment ignores the fact
- that those at the highest levels of government show every indicator of
- turning America's finest against Americans. This is a perversion of the
- American system and is nothing less than treason.
-
- As a former Marine, it makes me seethe to think that I may be forced to
- choose between violating my own oath to uphold and defend the Constitution
- (which is still in effect from the time I took it!) to giving up my Arms,
- giving up my Freedom, giving up on America, or firing on my Brothers in
- Arms. This is despicable and tragic. I want to head this off by all
- possible peaceful means -- hence the need for us to take political and
- legal action NOW.
-
- As far as pissing off Senators or Representatives, you must be operating
- with a different Congressional animal from the kind I have met. Many
- haven't a clue about the Constitution, or oftentimes, about the content
- of the Bill they are voting for.
-
- That Bills are constantly being introduced -- much less passed -- in
- Congress that violate the plain-language prohibitions against ex post
- facto laws, search and seizure, freedom of speech and assembly, et
- cetera, shows this to be true.
-
- Whether through ignorance or contempt, the result is the same.
- Moreover, we have fewer prior-service in Congress than we've had in a
- very long while. What we *do* have in government are the Sarah Lister
- types, who -- like Clinton -- 'loathe' the military and have no concept
- of how the inner workings of a military unit functions.
-
- Here are some more URLs
-
- - -- please have a look first....
-
- Rather than attack each other over inanities, let's turn our attention
- to heading this thing off before the "exercises" stop and the "operations"
- begin.
-
- This is for real people.
-
- In Liberty,
-
- Rick V.
-
- Why attack the military?
- - --------------------------
- http://freeweb.digiweb.com/pages/RKBA/atak_mil.htm
-
- Night raids on Civilian Areas
- - ------------------------------
- http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990319close4.asp
- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/19990309_xex_new_livefire.shtml
- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/19990225_xex_the_military.shtml
- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/19990226_xex_inside_view_.shtml
-
- Examples of Lister/Morris in top levels of US Government:
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
- http://www.ccnet.com/~suntzu75/pirn9779.htm
- http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/nsu/militari.htm
- http://www.neopolitique.org/articles/oct97-military.html
- http://tiger.bpa.missouri.edu/Research/Centers/CSOC/Howard_Schwartz.html
- http://www.reagan.com/HotTopics.main/document-4.4.1997.8.html
- http://www.law.duke.edu/fac/morris/morris.htm
- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895263769/o/qid%3D901808185/sr%3D2-2/002-0511558-1324255
-
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------
- The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:26:30 -0500
- From: Joe Sylvester <joesylvester@texoma.net>
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: Re: Okay, let's put a stop to this!
-
- At 06:45 AM 3/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
- >Joe Sylvester wrote:
-
- >>The 160 Special Operations Aviation Regiment/Night Stalkers and Delta
- Force are *not* the same unit, as you seem to indicate.The 160th is based
- at Ft. Campbell while Delta is based at Ft. Bragg. The 160th are the taxi
- drivers for Delta and other units, as well as their "eyes in the sky".
-
- >Jurist responds:
-
- >Okay...
- >...you might want to take a look at all the URLs I posted at the bottom
- >of the message. The articles cited to in the URLs go into greater depth
- >in unit identification -- that's why they are included. There certainly
- >is a distinction between the various units, be they Delta, Special
- >Forces, Rangers, et cetera.
-
- Been there, done that. I made the point because any little inaccurracy,
- even inconsequential ones, will be used to discredit the entire thesis.
-
- >Point of fact, the Night Stalkers have been identified by the sources,
- >once again, --- in the URLs -- as being involved with the night-time NVG
- >raids, but Marine and Navy units have also been involved in night urban
- >assaults as well (Laser Cup, Last Dance, what have you).
-
- >Splitting hairs over First Battalion or Second Regiment ignores the fact
- >that those at the highest levels of government show every indicator of
- >turning America's finest against Americans. This is a perversion of the
- >American system and is nothing less than treason.
-
- NO? You don't say? :(
-
- >As a former Marine, it makes me seethe to think that I may be forced to
- >choose between violating my own oath to uphold and defend the
- >Constitution (which is still in effect from the time I took it!) to
- >giving up my Arms, giving up my Freedom, giving up on America, or firing
- >on my Brothers in Arms. This is despicable and tragic. I want to head
- >this off by all possible peaceful means -- hence the need for us to take
- >political and legal action NOW.
-
- Tell me about it. They and you are my brothers in arms too. I just wore a
- different colored "suit". See .sig
-
- >Rather than attack each other over inanities, let's turn our attention
- >to heading this thing off before the "exercises" stop and the
- >"operations" begin.
-
- Twer not an attack, just a correction/clarification. Call it *constructive*
- critisism.
-
- >This is for real people.
-
- I guess that means it leaves me out. I've been called a lot of things,
- egghead, fatso, even "Sir", but never a real person. :)
-
- Dennis J. Sylvester
- Captain USAFR(ret)
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 20:47:00 -0700
- From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON)
- Subject: What? MORE Helicopter raids in civilian areas? - WHY?
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:29:31 -0500
- From: jurist@attymail.com
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: What? MORE Helicopter raids in civilian areas? - WHY?
-
- Ladies and Gents of the RKBA,
-
- What's going on here? I used to play helicopter commando with the
- Marines. We had lots of space and "combat towns" on board base to do
- training with.
-
- There was and is no need to conduct operations anywhere close to
- civilian-occupied areas -- unless the purpose is to get civilians used
- to your presence ('lulling' into a false sense of complacency?).
-
- When you play connect-the-dots with the personalities in charge of the
- USA, their political agenda and the intentions and capabilities of their
- allies in the press, overseas (Red China et al) and in Congress (58
- Socialists there - http://www.dsausa.org/pc/pc.caucus.html), it does not
- look good.
-
- For those of you with plans of cacheting valuables - pay attention to
- the scenario given below.
-
- Believe me, all this has *everything* to do with the RKBA, and with
- Freedom. We must pay attention and find out just what is going on.
- We have 8 months left. Buy your Night Vision equipment now.
-
- In liberty,
-
- Rick V.
- - --------------------------------------------------------
-
- Not ready for rumble
-
- Sleepers alarmed by helicopter-borne commandos Friday, March 19, 1999
-
- By Torsten Ove, Post-Gazette Staff Writer
-
- In the black of a peaceful winter night in the Beaver County
- countryside, the first mean machines came chop-chop-chopping low and
- loud over Don and Phyllis Wilfong's house at 3:27 a.m. yesterday,
- rattling the windows and obliterating any hope of sleep.
-
- A second intimidating ruckus followed about five minutes later.
-
- Then, five minutes after that, another.
-
- "It sounded like they were landing on the house," said Phyllis, 57, of
- New Sewickley, who bolted up in bed with Don and the couple's suddenly
- very alert Chihuahua. "It shook everything. Our house was shaking. Our
- bed was shaking. I don't know how anyone couldn't hear that. I couldn't
- figure out what the heck was going on."
-
- Short answer: A squadron of 12 military helicopters was on maneuvers,
- and lots of people got scared.
-
- ...
- So, were these the dreaded black helicopters of legend? Were they filled
- with commandos out to sabotage the nuclear power plant in Shippingport?
- Was this a prelude to an invasion? And wasn't that the Cigarette-Smoking
- Man in the lead chopper?
-
- "We've been taking calls all morning," said Capt. Michael Mastroianni of
- the Penn Township police in Westmoreland County. "We don't know who they
- were. Needless to say, the military doesn't check in with us."
-
- ...Everyone had the same question: What's up with these helicopters?
-
- ...Maybe Beth Nicholson and her husband, Shawn, could explain. At 3:30
- a.m., a group of choppers churned over their house on Stiefel Avenue in
- Franklin, Beaver County. Fifteen minutes later, another group blasted
- by, and 25 minutes later, a third.
-
- ...Not a war, but a one-day training operation, the exact details of
- which remained sketchy yesterday.
-
- "According to the Army, the choppers were taking part in a joint Army and
- Air Force Special Operations training mission called "Exercise Laser Cup."
-
- [PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART]
-
- ***[S]pecial forces officers were to practice finding buried items near
- an old mine.****
-
- [end item]
-
- ....Flying at night is necessary because almost all special forces
- missions are conducted in darkness.
-
- ...Soldiers practicing urban warfare techniques slid down ropes from
- hovering helicopters amid simulated explosions and gunfire.
-
- ...Trouble was, no one seemed to know about it, and finding out who
- owned the choppers proved an exercise in frustration.
-
- When asked if the helicopters might have come from his unit, for example,
- an officer at the Army Reserve base in Oakdale said the outfit "has no
- rotary-wing assets." Translation: We don't have choppers.
-
- ... "We made some inquiries, but nobody would tell us who they were,"
- said Jay Schall, a supervisor at the Westmoreland County 911 center.
- "I would prefer they notify us so we can tell the people who call. But
- [the military] doesn't have to tell us anything. They're federal and
- we're county. There's nothing we can do about it."
- http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990319close4.asp
-
- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/19990309_xex_new_livefire.shtml
- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/19990225_xex_the_military.shtml
- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/19990226_xex_inside_view_.shtml
-
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------
- The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:49:31 -0700 (MST)
- From: Scott Bergeson <Scott.Bergeson@m.cc.utah.edu>
- Subject: Re: LPU: DesNews editorial
-
- While I don't support the contention that rights are totally dependent
- on the will of the majority, the DN and the Trib keep saying this, but
- how accurate and unbiased are the polls on which these statistics are
- based? Does anyone have access to the raw data, such as date, polling
- firm, exact questions asked, who responded as compared to who was
- approached in addition to the actual numbers of total and specific
- responses, etc.?
-
- Scott
-
- On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 utbagpiper@juno.com provided:
-
- > Keep schools, churches gun-free=20
- > Deseret News editorial
-
- > An overwhelming number of Utahns advocate the obvious =97 guns
- > should be kept out of schools and churches. We concur.
- SNIP
- > 90 percent of Utahns believe
- > all weapons should be banned from public schools. Eighty-six percent
- > think guns =97 including concealed weapons =97 should be kept from
- > churches. Three-fourths want firearms prohibited from Olympic venues in
- > 2002. While 58 percent feel they should be kept out of private
- > businesses open to the public.
- SNIP to end
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:47:10 -0700 (MST)
- From: Scott Bergeson <Scott.Bergeson@m.cc.utah.edu>
- Subject: FW: FYI: Important Gun Data
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:33:23 -0700
- From: Jim Dexter <jimdex@inconnect.com>
- To: LPUtah Forum <lputah@qsicorp.com>
- Cc: Gunflower@lgcy.com
- Subject: FW: FYI: Important Gun Data
-
- - ----------
-
- This gun data brought to you by the
-
- National Center For Policy Analysis
- DAILY POLICY DIGEST
- Wednesday, March 24, 1999
-
- PointCast can automatically load NCPA's Policy Digest summaries
- on your desktop for easy reading. For information go to
- http://www.ncpa.org/pointcast.html
-
-
- LAWSUITS IGNORE BENEFITS OF DEFENSIVE GUN USE
-
- The mayors of Chicago and New Orleans have filed lawsuits against
- the gun industry, arguing that their cities should be reimbursed
- for the public health and safety costs associated with treating
- and preventing firearms injuries.
-
- Gun control advocates have compared these suits to those against
- the tobacco industry. But a new National Center for Policy
- Analysis study concludes that unlike tobacco, guns produce
- tangible social benefits.
-
- Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates there are about 2.5 million
- defensive gun uses annually -- often merely showing the weapon.
- And research supports the view that the best defense against
- violence is an armed response. For example:
-
- o Women faced with assault are 2.5 times less likely to
- suffer serious injury if they respond with a firearm than
- if they defend themselves with less effective weapons or
- offer no resistance (see Figure II
- http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s223/gif/s223fig2.gif ).
-
- o The Justice Department says only one-fifth of the victims
- who defended themselves with firearms suffered injury,
- compared to almost half of those who used weapons other
- than firearms or had no weapon.
-
- Socially, the benefits of defensive gun use exceed the costs of
- firearm crimes by as much as $38.9 billion -- an amount equal to
- about $400 per year for every household in America.
-
- Serious crime in the U.S. is at a 20-year low, and one reason is
- that since 1987, 22 states have made it easier for private
- citizens to get concealed carry permits. For instance, economist
- John Lott found that:
-
- o Concealed carry laws reduce murder by 8.5 percent, rape by
- 5 percent and severe assault by 7 percent (see Figure III
- http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s223/gif/s223fig3.gif ).
-
- o Had liberalized concealed carry laws prevailed throughout
- the country in any given year, there would have been 1,600
- fewer murders, 4,200 fewer rapes and 60,000 fewer severe
- assaults.
-
- These lawsuits would not only establish bad policy, but bad law,
- concludes the study. Courts have recognized that firearms are no
- different from other potentially dangerous products and have held
- that legislatures should decide whether guns should be legal and
- widely available. Furthermore, it is a well-established tort law
- principle that manufacturers are not responsible for the criminal
- misuse of their products.
-
- Source: H. Sterling Burnett, "Suing Gun Manufacturers" Hazardous
- to Our Health," Policy Report No. 223, March 1999, National
- Center for Policy Analysis, 12655 N. Central Expy., Suite 720,
- Dallas, Texas 75243, (972) 386-6272.
-
- For text go to http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s223.html
-
- For more on Liability and Guns
- http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/crime51.html
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:43:09 -0700 (MST)
- From: Scott Bergeson <Scott.Bergeson@m.cc.utah.edu>
- Subject: Request: negative effects of gun control
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:05:57 -0500
- From: Paul Nixon <colt45@arizonaone.com>
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: Help needed:
-
- Anybody care to help this person:
-
- From: JMo32851@aol.com
-
- I am 15 and doing a report on the negative effects of gun control. I would
- like any info as to where to get statistics and other info. Any other help
- is appreciated. Thanks!
-
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- We have a new web site!
- http://www.onelist.com
- Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services
-
- - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Internet: colt45@arizonaone.com (Paul Nixon)
- AirPower Information Services The Pro-freedom Online Service, since 1989!
- BBS:610-259-2193 Telnet://airpower.dynip.com ftp://ftp.airpower.dynip.com
- http://www.airpower.com http://www.airpower.dynip.com
- This message was processed by AirPower's NetXpress Server.
- - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:57:33 -0700 (MST)
- From: Scott Bergeson <Scott.Bergeson@m.cc.utah.edu>
- Subject: FW: Pre-emptive Concessions are dangerous and ineffective
-
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:30:11 -0500
- From: jurist@attymail.com
- To: Multiple recipients of list PRN <PRN@airgunhq.com>
- Subject: Pre-emptive Concessions are dangerous and ineffective
-
- Attn: Mr. Alan Gottlieb of the CCRKBA,
-
- This message is intended for Mr. Alan Gottlieb. If this should arrive
- at the wrong address, please pardon the error and kindly delete the
- message.
-
- Dear Mr. Gottlieb,
-
- I understand you are supporting a Bill supporting gun locks on weapons
- in an effort to head off more onerous legislation.
-
- It is this same exact flawed reasoning that has severely damaged our
- fundamental right to self defense, as recognized by the U.S.
- Constitution and many State Constitutions.
-
- As anyone can recall from the dark days leading into WWII, the name
- Neville Chamberlain is remembered as being associated with cowardly
- concessions that served on to encourage a beastial tyrant on to greater
- efforts. The people of Czechoslovakia were betrayed by their allies and
- given up to the wolves in order to obtain "peace in our time."
-
- Please note this next part is given with the greatest respect, but
- brought out because it is quite relevant: I take it from your name that
- your are of Jewish extraction. Nothing need be said as to how the Jews
- suffered under this same man who failed to be bought off with
- concessions. However it should be noted that Hitler's rise to power and
- the fate of the Jews was sealed by the gradual disarmament of any
- opponents to the State under the Nazi Weapons Law of 1938, which became
- the blueprint for the Gun Control Act of 1968 http://jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm
-
- If there is a learning curve when dealing with guns, freedom, gun laws
- and anti-gun activists, we must know that gun laws merely serve to
- disarm the law-abiding. We must know that those seeking gun laws are
- doing so for ulterior motives or because they are "useful idiots" whose
- thinking ignores history, law and fact -- neither of which is a proper
- basis for a change in the laws. Particularly when the Rights being
- attacked are FUNDAMENTAL to LIFE ITSELF.
-
- We must know that any time only the government has guns, freedom is on
- the brink of extinction, and oftentimes mass slaughter of civilians
- results. http://www2.hawaii.edu/~rummel/DBG.CHAP1.HTM results.
-
- I submit now is not the time for concessions. Now is the time for a
- ROLLBACK -- going on to the offensive -- so to speak. We need to hold
- up the 1968 Gun Control Act up as the NAZI LAW that it is. We need to
- indelibly stain the supporters of that law as NAZI LAW supporters and
- keep pounding them with that drumbeat: 'a NAZI LAW has no place in the
- American body of laws' and 'What?! YOU support and defend a NAZI LAW???'
-
- These tactics are the sort that the Left has used with the glaring
- differences of 1) it being based on TRUTH and 2) that a repeal of the
- NAZI 1968 GCA will SAVE lives.
-
- I urge you to cease any further attempts at placating our enemies.
- Their mindset is a Totalitarian one and I shudder to think what kind of
- society it will be when they are FINALLY placated.
-
-
- Your friend in Liberty,
-
- Richard E. Vaughan, Esq.
-
- http://freeweb.digiweb.com/pages/RKBA/commies.htm
-
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------
- The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------
-
- New laws - justified by WHAT facts????
-
- YAHOO NEWS
- WASHINGTON (Reuters) Monday December 28 12:31 AM ET - The violent crime
- rate in the United States fell almost 7 percent in 1997 to the lowest
- level since the National Crime Victimization Survey was started 25 years
- ago, the Justice Department announced Sunday.
-
- In 1997, the last year for which full statistics were compiled, there
- were an estimated 39 violent crimes per 1,000 U.S. residents 12 years or
- older.
-
- That was lower than the 42 per 1,000 the year before and represented a
- 21 percent drop since 1993. The nation's murder rate alone fell by 8
- percent meaning the 18,210 murders last year were
- 28 percent lower than in 1993.
-
- The survey was begun by the department's Bureau of Justice Statistics
- in 1973 and at that time there were an estimated 48 violent crimes per
- 1,000 residents. Violent crime went up drastically in the 1980s but the
- rate has been coming down in recent years.
-
- Most categories of crime were down in 1997 with property crime also
- reaching its lowest level since the survey's beginning. Last year there
- were an estimated 248 attempted or completed property crimes per 1,000
- U.S. households, down from 266 the previous year and 554 in 1973.
-
- Robbery fell the most among 1997 violent crime, down 17 percent, while
- the statistics for rape and sexual assault did not change from the year
- before.
-
- The West had the highest crime rate in 1997, and about half of the
- violent crimes were committed by someone the victim knew.
-
- ``As in previous years, males were more vulnerable to violent crime than
- females, younger people more vulnerable than older people and blacks
- more vulnerable than whites,'' the department said in a statement.
- ``Persons in urban areas had violent and property crime rates that were
- higher than the rates for suburban and rural residents.''
-
- Still, the survey estimated that only 37 percent of all crimes and 44
- percent of all violent crimes were ever reported to police.
- http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/pl/story.html?s=v/nm/19981228/pl/crime_2.html
-
- (URL may wordwrap)
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- MORE AMMO
-
- "National crime rates have been falling at the same time as gun
- ownership has been rising... states experiencing the greatest reductions
- in crime are also the ones with the fastest growing percentages of gun
- ownership." http://www.toledoblade.com:80/editorial/edit/8k23fole.htm
-
- MURDER STATISTICS ARE BEING SCRUTINIZED Wash. Times, 07/02/1998 at C5 "In
- the first half of 1997, New York City, Chicago, and Los Angeles led the
- nation in slayings. Baltimore placed fifth and the District [of
- Columbia] sixth, according to statistics released by the Federal Bureau
- of Investigation." [ALL have had long-standing gun bans!]
-
- Thirty-one states now have Right-to-Carry (RtC) laws. As states passed
- RtC reform over the 19 years encompassed by the monumental University of
- Chicago Lott/Mustard study, the number of multiple-victim public
- shootings declined by 84%. Deaths from these shootings plummeted on
- average by 90%, injuries by 82%. Violent crime such as murder, rape and
- aggravated assaults were down in every category of statistics collected
- wherever the citizen's right to carry concealed arms was recognized.
- http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Lott/guncont.html
-
- Indeed, Americans use privately-owned guns 2,500,000 times each year to
- thwart violent attacks against themselves and their loved ones. Where
- concealed handgun laws had been in effect for 5 years, murders declined
- by at least 15%, rapes by 9% and robberies by 11%. Permit holders were
- found to be extremely law-abiding, and data on accidental deaths and
- suicides indicate there were no increases.
-
- In fact, studies have shown that you stand a greater chance of being
- shot by a cop than by a gun-toting civilian: 11% of individuals involved
- in police shootings were later found to be innocents mistaken for
- criminals, while only 2% of those in civilian shootings were so
- misidentified. Moreover, private citizens in urban areas encounter and
- kill up to three times as many criminals as do law enforcement
- personnel.
-
- Women also benefited under the relaxed carry laws, but those who
- behaved passively when they were attacked proved to be 2.5 times more
- likely to be seriously injured than women who defended themselves with a
- gun.
-
- Gun Control Advocates Purvey Deadly Myths
- http://www.junkscience.com/nov98/lottgun.htm
-
- General Firearms Facts
- http://amfire.com/afistatistics/general.html
-
- Firearms and Crime Statistics
- http://www.av.qnet.com/~harv/stats.htm
-
- Most violent crime committed by repeat offenders, about one-third of
- whom are already on probation, parole or pretrial release.
- http://www.ncpa.org/hotlines/juvcrm/eocp2.html
-
- Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda?
- http://www.2ndlawlib.org/journals/tennmed.html
-
- John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and
- Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns". - THE Definitive Study, showing
- that beyond a reasonable doubt, Guns Save Lives and stop crime.
- http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~llou/guns.html
-
- Large City Crime Rates - FBI Confirms Downward Trend
- http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/crime/index.html
-
- Report: School crime down
- http://www-cgi.cnn.com/US/9810/15/school.violence.01/
-
- Suter vs Kellerman home invasion study
- http://rkba.org/letters/suter.kellerman.home-invasion
-
- Gun Control Kills Kids (Freedom, Genocide and Gun Control)
- http://www.webspan.net/~hhr/myths.html
-
- Second Thoughts of an Armed Liberal - Debunks some myths
- http://www.arcrafts.com/2think.html
-
- Statistics Links
- http://www.aloha.net/~davidht/koloa/refstats.htm
-
-
- - -
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #132
- ***********************************
-
-