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utah-firearms-digest   Wednesday, December 23 1998   Volume 02 : Number 117




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:48:17 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: A Miserable Scenario Part 2]]

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part 2


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ron Zepp <[e-mail]>
=20
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 7:22 PM
Subject: [Fwd: A Miserable Scenario Part 2]


>
>

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:49:46 -0500
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Subject: A Miserable Scenario Part 2
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>Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
>Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact [e-mail]
>Delivered-To: mailing list [e-mail]
>From: [e-mail]
>Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:35:38 EST
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject:  A Miserable Scenario Part 2
>
>Member Council of Tampa Bay - http://home.tampabay.rr.com/membercouncil
>
>The following has been forwarded for your reading.  I almost said "your
>reading pleasure".  It should push a lot of your buttons....Part 2
>Robert
>Florida
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>"One fellow I knew disagreed. He said we ought to use our guns now and=20
>stand up to the government. Said that the colonists had fought for =
their=20
>freedom when the British tried to disarm them at Lexington and Concord.=20=

>Well, he and a lot of others died in what your history books call the =
'Tax=20
>Revolt of 2001,' but son, it wasn't the revolt that caused the repeal =
of=20
>the Second Amendment like your history book says. The Second Amendment =
was=20
>already gone long before they ever repealed it. The rest of us thought =
we=20
>were doing the right thing by waiting. I hope to God we were right."
>"You see, Thomas. It isn't government that makes a man free. In the =
end,=20
>governments always do just the opposite. They gobble up freedom like =
hungry=20
>pigs. You have to have laws to keep the worst in men under control, but =
at=20
>the same time the people have to have guns, too, in order to keep the=20
>government itself under control. In our country, the people were =
supposed=20
>to be the final authority of the law, but that was a long time ago. =
Once=20
>the guns were gone, there was no reason for those who run the government =
to=20
>give a damn about laws and constitutional rights and such. They just =
did=20
>what they pleased and anyone who spoke out...well, I'm getting ahead =
of=20
>myself."
>"It took a long time to collect up all the millions of firearms that =
were=20
>in private hands. The government created a whole new agency to see to =
it.=20
>There were rewards for turning your friends in, too. Drug dealers and=20
>murderers were set free after two or three years in prison, but possession=
=20
>of a gun would get you mandatory life behind bars with no parole.
>"I don't know how they found out about me, probably knew I'd been a =
hunter=20
>all those years, or maybe somebody turned me in. They picked me up on=20
>suspicion and took me down to the federal building."
>"Son, those guys did everything they could think of to me. Kept me =
locked=20
>up in this little room for hours, no food, no water. They kept coming =
in,=20
>asking me where the guns were. 'What guns?' I said. Whenever I'd doze =
off,=20
>they'd come crashing in, yelling and hollering. I got to where I =
didn't=20
>know which end was up. I'd say I wanted my lawyer and they'd laugh.=20
>'Lawyers are for criminals', they said. 'You'll get a lawyer after we =
get=20
>the guns.' What's so funny is, I know they thought they were doing the=20
>right thing.
>They were fighting crime!"
>"When I got home I found Ruth sitting in the middle of the living room=20
>floor, crying her eyes out. The house was a shambles. While I was down=20
>there, they'd come out and took our house apart. Didn't need a search=20
>warrant, they said. National emergency! Gun crisis! Your grandma tried =
to=20
>call our preacher and they ripped the phone off the wall. Told her =
that=20
>they'd go easy on me if she just told them where I kept my guns." The =
old=20
>man laughed. "She told them to go to hell." He stared into the distance =
for=20
>a moment as his laughter faded.
>"They wouldn't tell her about me, where I was or anything, that whole =
time.=20
> She said that she'd thought I was dead. She never got over that day, =
and=20
>she died the next December."
>"They've been watching me ever since, off and on. I guess there's not =
much=20
>for them to do anymore, now that all the guns are gone. Plenty of time =
to=20
>watch one foolish old man." He paused. Beside him, the boy stared at =
the=20
>stone beneath his feet.
>"Anyway, I figure that, one day, America will come to her senses. Our =
men=20
>will need those guns and they'll be ready. We cleaned them and sealed =
them=20
>up good; they'll last for years. Maybe it won't be in your lifetime,=20
>Thomas.  Maybe one day you'll be sitting here with your son or =
grandson.=20
>Tell him about me, boy. Tell him about the way I said America used to =
be."=20
>The old man stood, his bad leg shaking unsteadily beneath him.
>"You see the way this stone points? You follow that line one hundred =
feet=20
>down the hill and you'll find a big round rock. It looks like it's =
buried=20
>solid, but one man with a good prybar can lift it, and there's a =
concrete=20
>tunnel right under there that goes back into the hill."
>The old man stood, watching as the sun eased toward the ridge, coloring =
the=20
>sky and the world red. Below them, the river still splashed among the=20
>stones, as it had for a million years. It's still going, the old man=20
>thought. There'll be someone left to carry on for me when I'm gone. It =
was=20
>harder to walk back. He felt old and purposeless now, and it would be=20
>easier, he knew, to give in to that aching heaviness in his left lung =
that=20
>had begun to trouble him more and more. Damn cigarettes, he thought. =
His=20
>leg hurt, and the boy silently came up beside him and supported him as =
they=20
>started down the last mile toward the house. How quiet he walks, the =
old=20
>man thought. He's learned well.
>It was almost dark when the boy walked in. His father looked up from =
his=20
>paper. "Did you and your granddad have a nice walk?"
>"Yes," the boy answered, opening the refrigerator. "You can call Agent=20
>Goodwin tomorrow. Gramps finally showed me where it is."
>
>
>Editor's note: "Sundown at Coffin Rock" is a work of fiction. Any=20
>similarity
>to actual events or to actual people, living or dead, remains to be seen. =
- -
>Mark Pixler, Editor
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, write to [e-mail]
>Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/
>
>



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:58:57 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Impeachment

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From: "Charles E. Hoskinson" <[e-mail]>
To: "NRA-ILA-EVC" <[e-mail]>,
        "membercouncil" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Impeachment
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If you would like to have a say on Impeachment, take a brief stop and vote
at:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/20/impeach.opeds/index.html

Let's all have a say on the subject.

Chuck Hoskinson
FL-11


****Owning a firearm is a RIGHT, not a privilege****
    The NRA ILA EVC closed mailing list is NOT an
    official list of the NRA, but is offered as
a tool by Jim Kendall (WA-1st District EVC) and Telebyte NW.
   To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an email request to
             [e-mail]
    *********** Victory 1998! ***************

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:11:10 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: "The Day Democracy Died"

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Forwarded by a friend.  A sad statement for us all:

The Day Democracy Died
by Tom Hewes, Col. USMC ( ret.)

Democracy got sick the day the President of the United States, William
Jefferson Clinton, decided he was more important than the principles
embodied in the Constitution.  That was the day he chose to lie in a
civil deposition in the Paula Jones case rather than tell the truth as
required
by his oath of office.  That was the day he first used the machinery of
his office to suborn perjury.

Democracy developed a fever the day the President turned the spin
doctors, Carville, Blumenthal, and Lewis, loose on the body politic with
the lie
that a vast right wing conspiracy, abetted by a hostile media, were out
to destroy him.  That was also the day he knowingly lied to his aides
and
his cabinet, and then sent them forth to spread the lie.  Democracy was
placed on the serious list the day the President looked us all in the
eye and said,
"I did not have sex with that woman."  That was the day he and his
"flackeys" claimed our constitutional doctor, Independent Counsel Starr,
was guilty
of malpractice.

Democracy writhed in pain the day the Democrat party decided that party
was more important than principle.  That was the day the radical
feminists
prostituted themselves to stay in bed with the President.  That was also

the day the media found the patient's ratings were down, and abandoned
her
cause.

Democracy screamed in agony the day it discovered that her medical chart

was being filled out with results of a poll taken among a mere one
thousand
carefully selected people.  That was the day most Americans decided they

didn't want to hear any more about illness in the body politic.

Democracy's condition further worsened the day the sixteen Democrat
members of the
House Judiciary Committee savaged the Independent Counsel rather than
determine
the validity of the charges against the President.  That was the day
African
- -Americans ironically decided that access to power was more important
than
the rule of law.

Democracy slipped onto the critical list the day the Congress of the
United States ruled that lying under oath is acceptable behavior for the
highest
Law enforcement officer in the land.  That was the day the President of
the
United States became a law unto himself.

Democracy died the day she found out that the majority of Americans were

too ignorant, too busy, or too bored to care whether she lived or died.
That
was the same day the first American Caesar was born.

Where were you the day democracy died?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:30:12 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: L&J: The ACLU on Gun Control

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http://www.aclu.org/library/aaguns.html


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     [Image]

                                 Gun Control

                "Why doesn't the ACLU support an individual's
                   unlimited right to keep and bear arms?"

     BACKGROUND
     The ACLU has often been criticized for "ignoring the Second
     Amendment" and refusing to fight for the individual's right to own
     a gun or other weapons. This issue, however, has not been ignored
     by the ACLU. The national board has in fact debated and discussed
     the civil liberties aspects of the Second Amendment many times.

     We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily
     a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the
     states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and
     security against the central government. In today's world, that
     idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require
     weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The
     ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer
     an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons
     nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such
     as licensing and registration.

     IN BRIEF
     The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We
     believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable
     regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars,
     we can license and register guns.

     Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment
     certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own
     bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles,
     pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.

     The question therefore is not whether to restrict arms ownership,
     but how much to restrict it. If that is a question left open by
     the Constitution, then it is a question for Congress to decide.

     ACLU POLICY
     "The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing
     interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939
     case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms
     applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated
     militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the
     possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally
     protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the
     regulation of firearms." --Policy #47

     ARGUMENTS, FACTS, QUOTES

       "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a
                                    free
     State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
                                infringed."
                  The Second Amendment to the Constitution

      "Since the Second Amendment. . . applies only to the right of the
                                  State to
     maintain a militia and not to the individual's right to bear arms,
                                    there
       can be no serious claim to any express constitutional right to
                            possess a firearm."
                      U.S. v. Warin (6th Circuit, 1976)

     Unless the Constitution protects the individual's right to own all
     kinds of arms, there is no principled way to oppose reasonable
     restrictions on handguns, Uzis or semi-automatic rifles.

     If indeed the Second Amendment provides an absolute,
     constitutional protection for the right to bear arms in order to
     preserve the power of the people to resist government tyranny,
     then it must allow individuals to possess bazookas, torpedoes,
     SCUD missiles and even nuclear warheads, for they, like handguns,
     rifles and M-16s, are arms. Moreover, it is hard to imagine any
     serious resistance to the military without such arms. Yet few, if
     any, would argue that the Second Amendment gives individuals the
     unlimited right to own any weapons they please. But as soon as we
     allow governmental regulation of any weapons, we have broken the
     dam of Constitutional protection. Once that dam is broken, we are
     not talking about whether the government can constitutionally
     restrict arms, but rather what constitutes a reasonable
     restriction.

     The 1939 case U.S. v. Miller is the only modern case in which the
     Supreme Court has addressed this issue. A unanimous Court ruled
     that the Second Amendment must be interpreted as intending to
     guarantee the states' rights to maintain and train a militia. "In
     the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use
     of a shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length at
     this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or
     efficiency of a well-regulated militia, we cannot say that the
     Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an
     instrument," the Court said.

     In subsequent years, the Court has refused to address the issue.
     It routinely denies cert. to almost all Second Amendment cases. In
     1983, for example, it let stand a 7th Circuit decision upholding
     an ordinance in Morton Grove, Illinois, which banned possession of
     handguns within its borders. The case, Quilici v. Morton Grove 695
     F.2d 261 (7th Cir. 1982), cert. denied 464 U.S. 863 (1983), is
     considered by many to be the most important modern gun control
     case.

                                   [Image]

             Copyright 1996, The American Civil Liberties Union

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:15:22 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: STOP BATF INTIMIDATION

STOP BATF INTIMIDATION
The follwing leter was delivered to a lawabiding firearms
owner by the BATF.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20226

NOTICE OF UNLICENSED FIREARMS DEALING
VIOLATION

    Recently, your participation in the transfer of firearms
has come to the attention of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms (ATF).  ATF is charged with the responsibility of
enforcing the Federal firearms laws and, as part of that duty,
we must license persons lawfully dealing in firearms as well
as prevent unlicensed dealing.  We seek the cooperative
efforts of the general public in fulfilling this mandate.

    Your firearms activity may bring you within the definition
of a dealer in firearms as defined by the Gun Control Act of
1968, as amended.  This definition (18 U.S.C. section 921 (a)
(21) (c)) includes =93a person who devotes time, attention and
labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or
business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit
through the repetitive purchase and resale of Firearms . . .=94

    To willfully deal in firearms without a license issued by
AFT would place you in violation of 18 U.S.C. section
922(a)(1)(A).  A sentence of not more than 5 years=92
imprisonment and/or a $5,000 fine may be imposed on
anyone found guilty of dealing in firearms without a license.

    Attached to this notice is an ATF F 7, Application for
License Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms.  If you
conduct firearms activities on a scale that would bring you
within the scope of the above definition of a =93dealer,=94 then you
need to apply for a Federal firearms license.  Please feel free
to contact the nearest ATF office for assistance.

Sincerely yours
R. W. Haynes
Special Agent in Charge
Served By: (signature unreadable) Date: Location:
I acknowledge receipt of this notice. (Blacked out) Date:
- -------------------------------------------

The following suggested reply to this attempt to intimidate you
is written by Past Second Vice President of NRA Albert C.
Ross.
- ------------------------------------------

Special Agent, ATF
Department of Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226

Dear _________:
    I wish to acknowledge the letter recently delivered to me
by Special Agent (name) on (date) at (location).  In your letter
you advised that my alleged firearms activity may bring me
within the definition of a dealer in firearms as defined by the
Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended.  You stated that this
definition as set out in 18 U.S.C. section 922 (a)(21)(c)
includes =93a person who devotes time, attention and labor to
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business
with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. . .=94 .

    First, I wish to state that it has never been my intention
to violate any state or federal law or ever remotely engage in
conduct that could be interpreted as such.  Also, it has been
my understanding that a Federal Firearms License was not
available to people who are engaging in a hobby (such as me)
or who desire to operate out of their home (also such as me)
due to the ill-advised restrictions as to city zoning issues even
when these issues are of no concern to the city.

    I therefore, would ask for clarification of some of the
items in your recent letter.  These questions are asked in
order that I might keep my activities within the bounds of
lawful conduct as well as to continue the exercise of my lawful
rights as a United States citizen.  My questions are as follows:

    (1)  You stated that 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(21)(c)
=93includes . . .=94 Are there other definitions within the United
States Code in addition to 18 U. S. C. Section 921(a)(21)(c)
that define =93a dealer in firearms=94?  If so, what are they?

    (2)  The subject definition refers to a person who,
=93devotes time, attention and labor. . .=94 Have there been judicial
interpretations or does the ATF have a regulation or policy as
to what constitutes the devotion of =93time,=94 =93attention=94 or =93lab=
or=94
as used herein?  How much time devoted to firearms
transactions vs. What else I do on a daily or weekly basis?
Also, what is meant by =93labor?=94  Is that my personal labor or
volunteer labor of friends who assist me or labor I hire and pay
for?

    (3)  The quoted section of the United States Code
defines who may be a =93dealer=94 in firearms and then used the
term of =93dealing=94 in firearms within the definition.  Have there
been judicial interpretations or does the ATF have a regulation
or policy as to what constitutes =93dealing=94 in firearms?  Is this
based on the number of firearms sold or traded within a given
time?  If so what is applicable here?

    (4)  Is there a judicial interpretation or ATF regulation
that defines what is =93a regular course of trade or business=94 as
used in the United States Code definition?  If so, what are the
citations or ATF regulations?

    (5)  Is there a judicial interpretation or ATF regulation
that defines =93principal objective=94 as used in the United States
Code definition?  If so, what are the citations or ATF
regulations?  In my particular case, I would submit that my
=93principal objective=94 is to engage in social intercourse with my
friends and other people with a common interest in firearms.
It seems incredible to me that this activity would be unlawful.

    (6)  Are there judicial interpretations or ATF regulations
that define =93livelihood and profit=94 as used in the subject United
States Code section?  If so, what are the citations or the ATF
regulations?  Is there any ATF policy that separates
=93livelihood=94 from =93profit=94 as used in the United States Code
section?  Also, does the term =93profit=94 take into consideration
the time, transportation costs, and other expenses that would
be chargeable to a firearms =93business=94 when determining
whether a =93profit=94 has been made?  Who has the burden of
proof on this point, the ATF to show that a =93profit and
livelihood=94 was being made, or me to show that such was not
the case?  Are there any court cases that clarify this issue?  In
my particular case, I certainly am not earning my =93livelihood=94
from ant firearm sales, nor am I making any =93profit=94 from any
such sales if you take into consideration the normal costs and
expenses of overhead along with a reasonable charge for my
personal time devoted to the activity.  Does my failure to earn
a =93livelihood and profit=94 exempt me from the provisions of 18
U.S.C. section 921(a)(21)(c)?

    (7)  Finally, the last paragraph of your letter advised that
if =93you conduct firearms activities on a scale. . . . =93  What
=93scale=94 is being referred to here?  I would appreciate
clarification as to just what =93scale=94 would bring me =93within the
scope of the above definition.=94

    I would respectfully ask for answers to these questions
so that I may faithfully comply with the laws and regulations
you cited.  Also, I would ask that you consider this letter as a
request under either the Open Records Act or Freedom of
Information Request for information relating to all cases or
prosecutions initiated by the ATF charging anyone with a
violation of 18U.S.C. section 921(a)(21)(c) or 18U.S.C.
section 922(a)(1)(A) as of the date of this letter.
Sincerely yours, (should be sent certified mail)

You should keep a copy of all correspondence and send
copies to your pro-firearms organizations NRA, GOA,
CCRKBA, SAF, Firearms Hardcore, ect. and your
Congressman and US Senators.

You are also requested to vote for Albert C. Ross for the NRA
Board of directors elections and his friends all of whom are
running under the Second Amendment Action slate.
See the following web sites.
www.2ndamendment.net
www.nealknox.com/
SECOND AMENDMENT ACTION - Candidates for NRA
Board
Michael J. Beko
Sally Drews Brodbeck
William Dominguez
Howard J. Fezell
Dr. Daniel B. Fiora
David M. Gross
Fred E. Gustafson
Robert E. Hodgdon
Michael S. Kindberg
Albert C. Ross
Frank H. Sawberger
Thomas L. Seefeldt
John H. Trentes
Glen I. Voorhees
Please feel free to forward this information to all your friends.
Thanks.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:15:15 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: STOP BATF INTIMIDATION

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:40:32 -0500
From: Weldon Clark <[e-mail]>
Subject: STOP BATF INTIMIDATION
To: Weldon Clark <[e-mail]>
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Posted to rkba-co by Weldon Clark <[e-mail]>
- -----------------------
STOP BATF INTIMIDATION
The follwing leter was delivered to a lawabiding firearms
owner by the BATF.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20226

NOTICE OF UNLICENSED FIREARMS DEALING
VIOLATION

    Recently, your participation in the transfer of firearms
has come to the attention of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms (ATF).  ATF is charged with the responsibility of
enforcing the Federal firearms laws and, as part of that duty,
we must license persons lawfully dealing in firearms as well
as prevent unlicensed dealing.  We seek the cooperative
efforts of the general public in fulfilling this mandate.

    Your firearms activity may bring you within the definition
of a dealer in firearms as defined by the Gun Control Act of
1968, as amended.  This definition (18 U.S.C. section 921 (a)
(21) (c)) includes =F4a person who devotes time, attention and
labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or
business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit
through the repetitive purchase and resale of Firearms . . .=F6

    To willfully deal in firearms without a license issued by
AFT would place you in violation of 18 U.S.C. section
922(a)(1)(A).  A sentence of not more than 5 years=C6
imprisonment and/or a $5,000 fine may be imposed on
anyone found guilty of dealing in firearms without a license.

    Attached to this notice is an ATF F 7, Application for
License Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms.  If you
conduct firearms activities on a scale that would bring you
within the scope of the above definition of a =F4dealer,=F6 then you
need to apply for a Federal firearms license.  Please feel free
to contact the nearest ATF office for assistance.

Sincerely yours
R. W. Haynes
Special Agent in Charge
Served By: (signature unreadable) Date: Location:
I acknowledge receipt of this notice. (Blacked out) Date:
- -------------------------------------------

The following suggested reply to this attempt to intimidate you
is written by Past Second Vice President of NRA Albert C.
Ross.
- ------------------------------------------

Special Agent, ATF
Department of Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226

Dear _________:
    I wish to acknowledge the letter recently delivered to me
by Special Agent (name) on (date) at (location).  In your letter
you advised that my alleged firearms activity may bring me
within the definition of a dealer in firearms as defined by the
Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended.  You stated that this
definition as set out in 18 U.S.C. section 922 (a)(21)(c)
includes =F4a person who devotes time, attention and labor to
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business
with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. . .=F6 .

    First, I wish to state that it has never been my intention
to violate any state or federal law or ever remotely engage in
conduct that could be interpreted as such.  Also, it has been
my understanding that a Federal Firearms License was not
available to people who are engaging in a hobby (such as me)
or who desire to operate out of their home (also such as me)
due to the ill-advised restrictions as to city zoning issues even
when these issues are of no concern to the city.

    I therefore, would ask for clarification of some of the
items in your recent letter.  These questions are asked in
order that I might keep my activities within the bounds of
lawful conduct as well as to continue the exercise of my lawful
rights as a United States citizen.  My questions are as follows:

    (1)  You stated that 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(21)(c)
=F4includes . . .=F6 Are there other definitions within the United
States Code in addition to 18 U. S. C. Section 921(a)(21)(c)
that define =F4a dealer in firearms=F6?  If so, what are they?

    (2)  The subject definition refers to a person who,
=F4devotes time, attention and labor. . .=F6 Have there been judicial
interpretations or does the ATF have a regulation or policy as
to what constitutes the devotion of =F4time,=F6 =F4attention=F6 or =
=F4labor=F6
as used herein?  How much time devoted to firearms
transactions vs. What else I do on a daily or weekly basis?
Also, what is meant by =F4labor?=F6  Is that my personal labor or
volunteer labor of friends who assist me or labor I hire and pay
for?

    (3)  The quoted section of the United States Code
defines who may be a =F4dealer=F6 in firearms and then used the
term of =F4dealing=F6 in firearms within the definition.  Have there
been judicial interpretations or does the ATF have a regulation
or policy as to what constitutes =F4dealing=F6 in firearms?  Is this
based on the number of firearms sold or traded within a given
time?  If so what is applicable here?

    (4)  Is there a judicial interpretation or ATF regulation
that defines what is =F4a regular course of trade or business=F6 as
used in the United States Code definition?  If so, what are the
citations or ATF regulations?

    (5)  Is there a judicial interpretation or ATF regulation
that defines =F4principal objective=F6 as used in the United States
Code definition?  If so, what are the citations or ATF
regulations?  In my particular case, I would submit that my
=F4principal objective=F6 is to engage in social intercourse with my
friends and other people with a common interest in firearms.
It seems incredible to me that this activity would be unlawful.

    (6)  Are there judicial interpretations or ATF regulations
that define =F4livelihood and profit=F6 as used in the subject United
States Code section?  If so, what are the citations or the ATF
regulations?  Is there any ATF policy that separates
=F4livelihood=F6 from =F4profit=F6 as used in the United States Code
section?  Also, does the term =F4profit=F6 take into consideration
the time, transportation costs, and other expenses that would
be chargeable to a firearms =F4business=F6 when determining
whether a =F4profit=F6 has been made?  Who has the burden of
proof on this point, the ATF to show that a =F4profit and
livelihood=F6 was being made, or me to show that such was not
the case?  Are there any court cases that clarify this issue?  In
my particular case, I certainly am not earning my =F4livelihood=F6
from ant firearm sales, nor am I making any =F4profit=F6 from any
such sales if you take into consideration the normal costs and
expenses of overhead along with a reasonable charge for my
personal time devoted to the activity.  Does my failure to earn
a =F4livelihood and profit=F6 exempt me from the provisions of 18
U.S.C. section 921(a)(21)(c)?

    (7)  Finally, the last paragraph of your letter advised that
if =F4you conduct firearms activities on a scale. . . . =F4  What
=F4scale=F6 is being referred to here?  I would appreciate
clarification as to just what =F4scale=F6 would bring me =F4within the
scope of the above definition.=F6

    I would respectfully ask for answers to these questions
so that I may faithfully comply with the laws and regulations
you cited.  Also, I would ask that you consider this letter as a
request under either the Open Records Act or Freedom of
Information Request for information relating to all cases or
prosecutions initiated by the ATF charging anyone with a
violation of 18U.S.C. section 921(a)(21)(c) or 18U.S.C.
section 922(a)(1)(A) as of the date of this letter.
Sincerely yours, (should be sent certified mail)

You should keep a copy of all correspondence and send
copies to your pro-firearms organizations NRA, GOA,
CCRKBA, SAF, Firearms Hardcore, ect. and your
Congressman and US Senators.

You are also requested to vote for Albert C. Ross for the NRA
Board of directors elections and his friends all of whom are
running under the Second Amendment Action slate.
See the following web sites.
www.2ndamendment.net
www.nealknox.com/
SECOND AMENDMENT ACTION - Candidates for NRA
Board
Michael J. Beko
Sally Drews Brodbeck
William Dominguez
Howard J. Fezell
Dr. Daniel B. Fiora
David M. Gross
Fred E. Gustafson
Robert E. Hodgdon
Michael S. Kindberg
Albert C. Ross
Frank H. Sawberger
Thomas L. Seefeldt
John H. Trentes
Glen I. Voorhees
Please feel free to forward this information to all your friends.
Thanks.




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- -

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #117
***********************************