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utah-firearms-digest    Friday, September 25 1998    Volume 02 : Number 103




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 23:14:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Fwd: OH PLEASE

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Originating-IP: [208.194.215.188]
From: "Minute Man" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Fwd: OH PLEASE
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:29:31 PDT

send replies to this guy at: [e-mail]

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:34:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: OH PLEASE

TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS WEBPAGE, YOU CLAIM THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE
KORESH GROUP WERE TORTURED BY THE US GOVERNMENT, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU
FROM. PART OF THE TRAINING I RECIEVED IN THE MILITARY WAS TO FIGHT
FIRES, I HAVE BEEN TO THE NAVAL FIREFIGHTERS SCHOOL AT TREASURE
ISLAND, CAL. AND I WATCHED THE FINAL DAY OF THE STANDOFF IN WACO. AND
AS PART OF A STUDY, IN A POLITICAL SCIENCE COURSE AT TEXAS TECH, I WILL
TELL YOU THAT UNLIKE YOUR PERSICUTION COMPLEX, DAVID KORSH HAD HIS
FOLLOWERS START THE FIRE IN THE BUILDING, THE SO-CALLED TANK WAS AT ON
END OF THE BUILDING,AND THE FIRE WAS STARTED AT THE OTHER END, ON THE
VIDEO TAPE THAT I RECORED STAIGHT FROM CNN AS IT WAS ON THE AIR, IT SHOW
A MAN WITH A TORCH RUNNING THROUGH THE COMPOUND. I ALSO HAVE NOT SHED
ONE TEAR FOR THE ADULTS THAT DIED AT WACO, THEY MADE THEIR DECISTION TO
DIED, WHEN THEY KILLED COPS, YES, THEY THE FOLLOWERS OF KORSH, WERE THE
CRIMINALS IN THE EYES OF BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL LAW.THEY KILLED NOT
ONLY MEN THAT WERE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, BUT MEN IN GENERAL, HEY
MILITIA PEOPLE MURDER IS ILLEGAL, THE CHILDREN OF THE COMPOUND DID NOT
HAVE TO DIE, BUT THEIR PARENTS KILLED THEM, NOT THE US GOVERNMENT. I DO
NOT LIKE SOME OF THE SLICK WILLI LAWS THAT ARE OUT TRERE, BUT IF YOU
FOLKS THINK THAT WE ARE LIVING IN A POLICE STATE, MOVE SOME WHERE ELSE,
LEAVE MY COUNTRY ALONE, I HAVE BEEN TO COUNTRIES THAT YOU WOULD HAVE
ALREADY BEEN IN JAIL OR SHOT FOR YOUR STUPIDITY.

AS FAR AS YOU SENDING OUT MY E-MAIL TO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE. IF MAYBE
IT WILL BRING SOME TRUTH TO THEM SO BE IT. I SIR AM A REAL AMERICAN,
NOT AN IDIOT THAT JUST SCREAMS AND SHOUTS THAT BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING.
RUN FOR CONGRESS AND CHANGE THE LAWS. DON'T BITCH.

                                    JEFF CORNING




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 07:56:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: NICS applies on REPAIRS

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 11:10:04 GMT
From: [e-mail]
To: Liberty and Justice <[e-mail]>,
    Ignition Point <[e-mail]>,
    PIN <[e-mail]>, PRN <[e-mail]>
Subject: NICS applies on REPAIRS

Talked with the owner of my friendly local gun shop yesterday:

1. NICS applies on repairs. Drop it off. Have a new scope and
rings mounted, bore-sight. Pick it up? No. You must pass
NICS first and pay the tax.

2. Data: NICS input includes your name, driver's lic no, social
security number, address and the make and serial number off your piece.
They need to run a check for stolen pieces.

Observation: Every piece that you have repaired will be entered
into their data base in addition to new pieces sold beginning 1DEC1998.
- --
Note: If I were working for the enemy on this, I would apply this
to ammo also: To buy ammo I would require of you the make, model,
and s/n of the piece that the ammo would be for.
- --
 North American Patriots Free Network
 www.net-link.net/~napfn/homepage.htm
"Righteousness through Communications"
    ~~~~~Pastor Mike Acker~~~~~



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:48:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Long Guns

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Message-ID: <005c01bde36c$ec736300$ced7c2d0@pbcustomer>
From: "Lenox & Sherry Bowman" <[e-mail]>
To: "Pat Young" <[e-mail]>, "Carston Seales" <[e-mail]>,
        "Craig Mortz" <[e-mail]>,
        "Brett Bielawski" <[e-mail]>,
        "Rich Schneider" <[e-mail]>,
        "Don Taylor" <[e-mail]>, "Dan Feeney" <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
        "Chuck Buzzy" <[e-mail]>,
        "ISHOOTBACK" <[e-mail]>, "Jerry Bowman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Long Guns
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:29:09 -0400

Anyone who has (or knows someone who has) been ticketed for leaning a
firearm against a vehicle, please contact me immediately or have them
contact me immediately.  This research is for legislative purposes and
is very important.

Phone: [phone] or
Email [e-mail]

Thanks,

BB Lenox Bowman


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:48:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Massachusetts' gun-records database. 1/2

http://www.govtech.net/gtmag/1998/sept/jandt/jandt.shtm

September 98 - Gun Records in a Rat's Nest

Gun sale records move from the basement into CD storage.

By Raymond Dussault
Contributing Editor

SOLUTION SUMMARY

PROBLEM/SITUATION:
Inefficient system for storing and maintaining gun-license records.

SOLUTION:
Massachusetts' gun-records database.
JURISDICTION: Massachusetts Executive
Office of Public Safety, Framingham, Mass., Police Dept.
CONTACT: [e-mail] Charles E. McDonald,
communications director, Massachusetts Executive Office of Public
Safety, 617/727-7775 x507. Lt. Wayne McCarthy, Framingham, Mass.,
Police Dept., 508/620-4906. Kathleen O'Toole, Massachusetts secretary
of public safety, 617/727-7775 x522.

O'Toole Named to Important Commission

Kathleen O'Toole started her law enforcement career in 1979 as a uniformed
patrol officer working the streets for the Boston Police Department. In
less than two decades, O'Toole worked her way up to being Massachusetts'
secretary of public safety, responsible for the everyday management of
over 20 agencies, including the Massachusetts State Police, the Department
of Corrections and the Parole Board. She has been on the job since 1994
and, in that relatively short period, has built a reputation as a
forward-thinking administrator committed to using technology to make
police work easier and more efficient.

She has been the driving force behind Massachusetts' single-inquiry
system, which makes outstanding warrants, restraining orders, probation
records, sex-offender status and other data available to officers at
the touch of a computer key. As of January, 750,000 gun sale records
were added to the single-inquiry system.

Her success, it seems, has brought worldwide attention. After announcing,
in May, that she would leave the top cop's job to take over as head of
Boston College's (her alma mater) alumni association, she received one
of those offers that are tough to refuse. As part of the Good Friday
peace accords for Northern Ireland, the government is establishing an
independent Commission on Policing for the troubled region. On June 3,
Northern Ireland Secretary Marjorie Mowlam named O'Toole to the important
commission.

"Having begun her career in the Boston Police Department, O'Toole is
now secretary for public safety and has vast experience in the law
enforcement field. There is no questioning her knowledge of policing,"
Mowlam said in announcing the appointment.

Gun Records in a Rat's Nest

Massachusetts' gun sale records were once stacked in bursting cardboard
boxes. Rats and pigeons turned reams of data into nests while felons and
people who had slipped into psychosis held gun licenses issued years
before they stumbled off a mental edge or committed a crime. Now turn
the dial on the time machine and move out of the dark ages -- 750,000
gun sale records are out of the busted boxes and loaded on to compact
disks, retrievable at the touch of a computer key.

"The records, if you can believe it, really were out in the state
police headquarters in Boston, stacked floor to ceiling. They were
full of rodents, bugs, pigeon nests and asbestos," said Kathleen
O'Toole, Massachusetts secretary of public safety. "Before we could
scan the records, we had to have them cleaned." So that is what staff
did, putting in thousands of hours cleaning and scanning the records
to create an easily accessible gun-record database. It cost $700,000,
but the work has paid generous returns on the time and money invested.

Digital Dream

The system came online in January, and a paper nightmare has been turned
into a digital dream. "Before the disk, a single records search took 74
days and cost 5,600 dollars in staff time. Now we've trimmed that down
to seconds," explained O'Toole. "It's a big difference: less than 30
seconds and a cost of about 90 cents per search."

Even more important, though, is the law enforcement work the system has
made possible. Before the records were digitized, yanking a gun permit
was a case-by-case decision; today, felons and domestic-violence
perpetrators are being scooped up with greater ease, and their guns sold
off or confiscated by the thousands. Within days of going online, the
system had identified 17,546 individuals who had gun licenses but
shouldn't. Of that group, 2,862 of them were wanted on active felony
warrants; another 3,923 were identified as individuals with a history
of domestic violence and active restraining orders against them. The
word went out to law enforcement agencies across the commonwealth and,
so far, 5,200 firearms licenses have been revoked.

"Firearms identification (FID) cards are issued to be good for a lifetime;
other handgun carry permits are renewable every few years. In between, I
didn't really know what you were doing unless you happened to do it here
in town," explained Lt. Wayne McCarthy, with the Framingham, Mass., Police
Department. "Until the system came online you could commit a crime out of
town, and I would probably never know I needed to yank the license. If I
issued you an FID card at age 22, you could be a goddamned nut by the
time you're 42, and I wouldn't know. Now, we are getting criminal and
other pertinent information on a regular basis. Soon, we will be able
to access it instantly."

There are no dramatic stories to tell yet -- no lives that were saved
in the nick of time -- but, according to some, the proof of success may
be in the stories cops don't have to tell.

"It is hard to measure the success of the system in terms of crimes
prevented. If I don't pull a license, and the guy shoots someone, it
will be in all the papers," said McCarthy. "But if I take the gun,
nothing happens. That is how this system shows its success -- in the
stories that don't have to be told."
[ Continued In Next Message... ]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:48:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Massachusetts' gun-records database. 2/2

Information Loophole

According to McCarthy, despite all of the benefits of the new database,
police are still feeling the inefficiencies of the old system. The FID
card allowed you to purchase as many guns as you wanted, but it didn't
track the number you purchased; the owner was registered, the guns were
not.

If a name pops up on McCarthy's computer screen as a current felon or
someone with a restraining order against them, he will start the process
of revoking their gun license. Usually, that means sending a registered
letter ordering the individual to come to the station and turn in their
guns. Surprisingly, most people respond, and the local departments will
even hold the weapons to facilitate a sale to a legitimate gun dealer.
If the individual doesn't come in on his own, the police execute a search
warrant to confiscate the guns. It's in these situations when the old
system's weakness is exposed: Cops just don't know how many guns that
individual owns.

"If they bring in a couple rifles and say, 'Here you go; here are my guns,'
I have no way of knowing if he has a whole arsenal still hiding in his
closet," McCarthy said. All the old records are in the system now, but
they have data gaps due to the nature of the original data. However, if
you purchase a gun in Massachusetts today, the information -- including
specific gun information -- is collected on a special, easily scanable
form. Within 24 hours the information is entered into the system, keeping
the data continuously updated and accessible to officers around the clock.
That, according to O'Toole, was Phase Two; Phase One was creating the
database, and now Phase Three is on the way.

"I want gun dealers to enter their information directly into a terminal at
the time of purchase. That way, they know right off if someone can even
purchase a gun, and police departments will know instantly if a local
resident has. The next step is flipping the switch to make the system
accessible from every police station and the laptop computers of officers
in the field. That way, if an officer is conducting a traffic stop, they
will know the gun ownership history of the car's registered owner,"
explained O'Toole. "Police work today is a far cry from what it was back
when I was on patrol. I spent 30 percent of my time in the station filling
out paperwork. My opinion is that officers should only have to return to
the station to drop off prisoners, and technology can help make that
possible. That means more actual police man-hours in the field, and that
means better service for the community."

Ray Dussault [e-mail] is a Sacramento, Calif.-based writer.

Copyright 1996, 1997, 1998. Government Technology.
All Rights Reserved. Questions or Comments? [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:29:21 -0600
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: LORENA BOBBITT for White House Intern

Bold Red White and Blue Bumper Stickers

Get yours today - only $3

$2.50 for each additional bumper sticker


SYNERGY
PO Box 901272
Sandy, Utah 84090-1272



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:42:38 -0600
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Exicite/Harris Poll

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Results from Harris Online Poll - swing by and add a nail to Clinton's
coffin.

Do You Think Clinton Can Remain Effective if He Serves out His Term?

yes -- he's a strong leader, this scandal won't change that

                         38%  =3D>  2880 votes=20

no -- Starr's investigation has humiliated Clinton and has undermined
his authority and credibility

                         54%  =3D>  4090 votes=20

unsure -- it will take time to see if the scandal "sticks" to Clinton or
if it will fade from the people's minds

                         8%  =3D>  597 votes=20

                         Current Vote Tally: 7567
http://nt.excite.com/poll/
- --=20

Vote for Lorean Bobbitt for White House Intern!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:28:38 -0600
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress

Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun =
Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention =
Center.  One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also.

This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun =
owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need not be a resident =
of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you are interested, please =
call Darren Jones at 262-9324


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:51:26 -0600
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: CORRECTION  Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

Sorry for the confusion this has been re-sent with the correct telephone =
number.

The following was sent to [e-mail]=20


Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress

Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun =
Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention =
Center.  One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also.

This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun =
owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need not be a resident =
of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you are interested, please =
call Darren Jones at 263-9324


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:06:49 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: Fwd: CORRECTION  Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

I just called the Cook 98 office and asked them to send me a list of
pro-gun legislation Cook has sponsored or co-sponsored so I can make
an informed decision about whether or not to support him.

I told "Carolyn" that if Cook was really pro-gun I wanted to support
him.  If he isn't, maybe the gunshow isn't the best place to campaign.

She said he was "better than his opponent, but maybe not good enough
for you," and promised to fax over the list.  If it arrives, I'll pass
along whatever info I can.

I, for one, am tired of voting for the "evil of two lessers" and will
almost certainly vote for Libertarian Brian Swim this time around.


On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, "David Sagers" <[e-mail]> posted:

>Sorry for the confusion this has been re-sent with the correct telephone =
>number.
>
>The following was sent to [e-mail]=20
>
>
>Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
>Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun =
>Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention =
>Center.  One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also.
>
>This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun =
>owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need not be a resident =
>of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you are interested, please =
>call Darren Jones at 263-9324
>
>
>-
>
>


- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that
 we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall
 have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other
 terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American
 .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the
 federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever
 remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:06:49 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: Fwd: CORRECTION  Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

I just called the Cook 98 office and asked them to send me a list of
pro-gun legislation Cook has sponsored or co-sponsored so I can make
an informed decision about whether or not to support him.

I told "Carolyn" that if Cook was really pro-gun I wanted to support
him.  If he isn't, maybe the gunshow isn't the best place to campaign.

She said he was "better than his opponent, but maybe not good enough
for you," and promised to fax over the list.  If it arrives, I'll pass
along whatever info I can.

I, for one, am tired of voting for the "evil of two lessers" and will
almost certainly vote for Libertarian Brian Swim this time around.


On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, "David Sagers" <[e-mail]> posted:

>Sorry for the confusion this has been re-sent with the correct telephone =
>number.
>
>The following was sent to [e-mail]=20
>
>
>Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
>Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun =
>Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention =
>Center.  One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also.
>
>This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun =
>owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need not be a resident =
>of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you are interested, please =
>call Darren Jones at 263-9324
>
>
>-
>
>


- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that
 we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall
 have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other
 terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American
 .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the
 federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever
 remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

>
> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
> for Saturday September 26 also.
>
> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>
> -
Hi

FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.

Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
disconnected, with no other information available.

I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.

Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.

Will

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

>
> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
> for Saturday September 26 also.
>
> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>
> -
Hi

FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.

Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
disconnected, with no other information available.

I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.

Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.

Will

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

>
> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
> for Saturday September 26 also.
>
> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>
> -
Hi

FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.

Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
disconnected, with no other information available.

I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.

Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.

Will

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

>
> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
> for Saturday September 26 also.
>
> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>
> -
Hi

FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.

Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
disconnected, with no other information available.

I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.

Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.

Will

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:31 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

Well spoken Will.

Chad (just lost last name) and I went to talk to Merrill last year
about a very simple bill to require federal facilities to "check"
legally carried weapons so citizens would not be forced to leave them
in a car (or at home if they had walked or ridden mass transit) when
they had business with their government.

He wasn't real interested in sponsoring anything and if memory serves
has failed to even co-sponsor most pro-gun bills.

I won't vote for Lily.  But Merrill is not getting any help from me
until he starts acting like the gun vote matters to him.

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998,  Will Thompson <[e-mail]> posted:

>>
>> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>>
>> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
>> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
>> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
>> for Saturday September 26 also.
>>
>> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
>> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
>> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
>> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>>
>> -
>Hi
>
>FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
>indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.
>
>Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
>disconnected, with no other information available.
>
>I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
>of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
>read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.
>
>Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
>"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
>"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
>devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
>backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.
>
>Will
>


- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring
one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their
own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the
mouths of labor the bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good
government."  -- Thomas Jefferson

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:31 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

Well spoken Will.

Chad (just lost last name) and I went to talk to Merrill last year
about a very simple bill to require federal facilities to "check"
legally carried weapons so citizens would not be forced to leave them
in a car (or at home if they had walked or ridden mass transit) when
they had business with their government.

He wasn't real interested in sponsoring anything and if memory serves
has failed to even co-sponsor most pro-gun bills.

I won't vote for Lily.  But Merrill is not getting any help from me
until he starts acting like the gun vote matters to him.

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998,  Will Thompson <[e-mail]> posted:

>>
>> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>>
>> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
>> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
>> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
>> for Saturday September 26 also.
>>
>> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
>> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
>> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
>> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>>
>> -
>Hi
>
>FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
>indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.
>
>Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
>disconnected, with no other information available.
>
>I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
>of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
>read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.
>
>Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
>"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
>"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
>devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
>backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.
>
>Will
>


- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring
one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their
own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the
mouths of labor the bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good
government."  -- Thomas Jefferson

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress!

>
> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress
>
> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the
> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the
> Salt Palace Convention Center.  One or two volunteers are needed
> for Saturday September 26 also.
>
> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives
> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington.  You need
> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer.  If you
> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324
>
> -
Hi

FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had
indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd.

Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been
disconnected, with no other information available.

I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those
of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't
read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it.

Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an
"unknown traitor" in my book.  But then, I don't believe that the
"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the
devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a
backstabbing punk.  Sorry if that offends anyone.

Will

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:44:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: [[e-mail]: Congressman Merrill Cook on Lautenberg]

Forwarded by request of Sarah Thompson.

Wonder if CongCook favors revoking the right to worhsip, own property,
travel, or anything besides RKBA so long as notice is given?

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----

X-Sender: [e-mail]
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:32:20 -0600
To: [e-mail]
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Congressman Merrill Cook on Lautenberg
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Length: 2397

Hi Charles!

Would you be kind enough to post the following to utah-firearms?
Thanks!

Sarah


I received the following letter from freshman Congressman
Merrill Cook today.  Rep. Cook started out being mostly
anti-gun, so this IS progress for him.  However, it appears
that he still could use some education, particularly with
respect to the Constitution which he took an oath to
uphold.  Pay particular attention to the last paragraph.

Sarah


Merrill Cook
2nd District, Utah
1431 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

125 South State Street, Suite 2311
SLC, Ut. 84138
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Congress of the United States
House of Representatives
September 25, 1997



Ms. Sarah Thompson

Dear Ms. Thompson:

Thank you for contacting my office with your support to overturn
the Lautenberg Amendment.

I cannot support the Lautenberg Amendment as it was passed because
it is retroactive in its application.  I believe making new laws retroactive
is wrong and directly violates the Constitution.  I fully support the right
to own a gun, but only if it is used in a responsible and legal manner.  It
is
often unfortunately true that having a gun in a home where domestic
violence occurs increases the chances that the gun will be used, often with
tragic and preventable consequences.  People who believe violence is the
answer to family disputes deserve to be deprived of the means of inflicting
harm.  If a person receives prior notice that any future convictions for
misdemeanors related to domestic violence will result in his gun being taken,
and he nevertheless continues to commit acts of domestic violence, I believe
it is not unreasonable to take his guns away.  There is simply no excuse for
assaulting one's family members.  If a person does so even after having been
warned, then he has proven he cannot act responsibly, and the family should
be protected from the potential danger created by guns in the home.  I would
also hope that he would learn to solve his problems not by further violence
but by obtaining counseling from his church or a professional counselor.

I believe the right to bear arms is an important constitutional right.
Like all
freedoms and rights, however, it is not unlimited and must be used
responsibly.

Sincerely,

Merrill Cook
Member of Congress

MC/msm




- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that
 we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall
 have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other
 terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American
 .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the
 federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever
 remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:10:39 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: [[e-mail]: Sept. 30 column - mountain lions]

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED SEPT. 30, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Out of balance

    In recent years, mountain lions have been padding into suburban back
yards in California, hauling off family pets, and terrifying the mothers of
small children.

  In a couple of cases, lone adult humans have actually been attacked and
killed by the highly efficient predators, in parks or recreation areas
where Californians are no longer allowed to carry firearms.

  Now, even wildlife biologists are worrying that predation by mountain
lions that suddenly overrun their established ranges may endanger the
dramatic and welcome comeback of another previously endangered species --
the bighorn sheep.

  What's going on?

  Often blamed for the increasing frequency of human-cat contact is
suburban sprawl. Of course that's a factor. But more importantly, a
misguided 1990 California ballot initiative banned all hunting of the
cougar in that state. It's now illegal to kill a mountain lion unless it
directly threatens people or livestock. Even then, you're likely to do more
time than O.J. Simpson.

  "They have no vision of conservation," complains biologist John Wehausen,
a cougar expert at the University of California's Mountain Research
Station, referring to those who promoted the 1990 initiative.

  "We are concerned with habitat preservation and maintaining rich
biodiversity, but they're concerned with the life of a particular animal in
a particular place," Mr. Wehausen continues. "They essentially reject
science."

  Precisely. No one wants to see either the big cats or the wild sheep
driven to extinction. They're both vital parts of our wild heritage.

  But they are just that -- wild. The idea that nature lovers can or should
walk peacefully, shoulder to shoulder with these deadly predators, is the
kind of fantasy that shouldn't even be taught to children.

  California wildlife officers lecture elementary school classes these days
on what the children should do if they encounter a lion: Don't run, which
will only draw a charge. Instead, stand tall, shout and wave your arms.

  Passable advice as a last resort, since no child is likely to outrun or
outclimb one of these cats.

  But how about starting with: "Don't go into cat country without an adult,
and make sure that adult is carrying at least a medium-bore firearm full of
soft-points. If you see a mountain lion stalking you or poised to spring,
shout, 'Daddy, Mommy, shoot the cat!' "

  Environmental absolutism is a far cry from a true understanding of the
science of ecology, and is bound to have bizarre and unintended
consequences.

  Ecology is the study of the way all the parts of a biological system fit
together. Though it may not make for fuzzy, heart-warming cartoon shows,
such systems inevitably include predation, and often a necessary culling
role for man the hunter (we keep forgetting that Nature put that creature
here, too) -- especially where such other top predators as the grizzly are
long gone.

  The solution is not to take away the power of the referendum, but rather
to better educate the discretion of the populace. The more detailed our
understanding of a complex ecosystem, the more we are likely to abandon the
hubris which ever led us to believe we could fine-tune every aspect of
nature to suit our romanticized wishes, "preserving" at a randomly-selected
moment in geologic time a biological status quo which Nature herself has
placed in a state of constant change.

  Leaving a place for wildlife is an estimable goal. Once we are rid of the
warping of land uses caused by the dual tyrannies of the property tax and
"government land ownership," there's no reason private entrepreneurs can't
buy up and preserve vast wilderness areas for the enjoyment of hikers,
hunters, birdwatchers ... anyone who will pay the freight.

  But (in the meantime) modest, sensible wildlife management is never
likely to succeed, so long as it is based on popular votes to determine
which animals look more cuddly.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at [e-mail]. The web
site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The
column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media
Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   [e-mail]

Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of
new ideas and creative geniuses.  The schools are not nurseries of
progress and improvement, but conservatories of tradition and unvarying
modes of thought. -- Ludwig von Mises

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *



- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that
 we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall
 have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other
 terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American
 .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the
 federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever
 remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788.

- -

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #103
***********************************