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utah-firearms-digest       Friday, May 22 1998       Volume 02 : Number 060




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:48:47 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Memorial Day Thought (fwd)

- ----------Forwarded Message----------

Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 19:44:19 -0400
From: Nancy <[e-mail]
Organization: Mori Ante Cedere!
Subject:      FWD: Memorial Day Thought
To: [e-mail]

Got this from a friend in the military. All I can say is WOW!
Nancy
===============

Condensed from a speech by Leo K. Thorness, recipient of  The
Congressional Medal of Honor.

      You've probably seen the bumper sticker somewhere along the road.
It depicts an American Flag, accompanied by the words "These colors
don't run." I'm always glad to see this, because it reminds me of an
incident
from my confinement in North Vietnam at the Hao Lo POW Camp, or the
"Hanoi Hilton," as it became known. Then a Major in the U.S. Air Force, I
had
been captured and imprisoned from 1967-1973. Our treatment had been
frequently brutal. After three years, however, the beatings and torture
became less frequent.

      During the last year, we were allowed outside most days for a
couple of minutes to bathe.  We showered by drawing water from a
concrete tank with a homemade bucket. One day as we all stood by the
tank, stripped of our clothes, a young Naval pilot named Mike Christian
found the remnants of a handkerchief in a gutter that ran under the
prison wall.  Mike managed to sneak the grimy rag into our cell and
began fashioning it into a flag.

      Over time we all loaned him a little soap, and he spent days cleaning
the material.  We helped by scrounging and stealing bits and pieces of
anything he could use.  At night, under his mosquito net, Mike worked on
the  flag. He made red and blue from ground-up roof tiles and tiny
amounts of ink  and painted the colors onto the cloth with watery rice
glue. Using thread  from his own blanket and a homemade bamboo
needle, he sewed on stars.

    Early in the morning a few days later, when the guards were
not alert, he whispered loudly from the back of our cell, "Hey gang,
look here."  He proudly held up this tattered piece of cloth, waving it
as if in a breeze.  If you used your imagination, you could tell it was
supposed to be an American flag. When he raised that smudgy fabric,
we
automatically stood straight and saluted, our chests puffing out, and
more than a few eyes had tears.
      About once a week the guards would strip us, run us outside
and go through our clothing.  During one of those shakedowns, they
found Mike's flag. We all knew what would happen.  That night they
came for him.  Night interrogations were always the  worst.  They
opened the cell door and pulled Mike out.  We could  hear the beginning
of the torture before they even had him in the  torture cell.  They beat him
most of the night.

   About daylight they pushed what was left of him back through the cell
door. He was badly broken; even his voice was gone.  Within two
weeks,
despite the danger, Mike scrounged another piece of cloth and began
another flag. The Stars and Stripes, our national symbol, was worth the
sacrifice to him.

     Now whenever I see the flag, I think of Mike and the morning he
first waved that tattered emblem of a nation.  It was then, thousands  of
miles from home in a lonely prison cell, that he showed us what  it is to
be truly free.


*********************************************************
To post a message to AEN NEWS, address it to [e-mail].



Regards,

Jim

**********************************************************
James A. Ross -Ross Group, LLC -Manassas, VA USA
Surveillance and Countersurveillance Services Worldwide
Telephone:  800-US-DEBUG -Facsimile:  703-365-0363 email:
[e-mail]  - home:  http://www.rosseng.com
**********************************************************


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:53:44 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gun Owners Petition (fwd) -Forwarded

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To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gun Owners Petition (fwd)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

This may bear some discussion, but seems good so far.....
On May 20, ShootStuff wrote:

[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]

I am a WAC member (#45795) and a citizen who is tired of seeing my rights
eroded daily.  A group of us after much discussion in the forums of
www.guns.com came up with a petition that we want to present (with thousands
of signatures) to the pro-gun groups.  All we want is for them to work
together in a unified front against the increasing onslaught of both national
and international assaults on our basic and fundamental rights.  Please review
the petition and place a link on the WAC page to give the members the
opportunity to decide if this is a cause they want to put their name on.  The
address is http://members.aol.com/FIGHTFORUS/GunownersPetition.html

Also please send this message out to the email list.  The names are only going
to be used for this petition.  No mailing lists or requests for anything.
Just stand up and be counted.

Thank you
Dan Clark
[e-mail]

[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:01:25 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Question for San Antonio listmembers (fwd) -Forwarded

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X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list





- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:25:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Sam A. Kersh" <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Question for San Antonio listmembers

Posted to texas-gun-owners by [e-mail] (Sam A. Kersh)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
DF uses ceramic bullets to cut down on richocets.  But they are deadly and
are an assasin's dream...

............................................................................

            Delta Force bid for S.A. exercise gets shots down

Express-News: News: Nation

Delta Force bid for S.A. exercise gets shots down

By Sig Christenson and Christopher Anderson
Express-News Staff Writers

First came the loud whirring of helicopter blades, then booming
explosions followed by the crackle of small-arms fire.

Dazed, confused and frightened, nearby residents in working-class
homes awakened in the dead of night, tumbled from their beds,
scrambled for shelter and called for help.

This wasn't war-torn Bosnia, the terrorist-ravaged Middle East or
the crime-plagued city of Washington, but another night of Army
Special Operations training Delta Force-style  --  this time in
Houston, Charlotte, N.C., and Des Plaines, Ill.

"We didn't have black-clad ninjas running through the city of Des
Plaines," said Police Chief Bob Sturlini, whose community of 55,000
people borders Chicago.

But by giving Army Special Operations troops the green light to use
their cities for urban counterterrorist training, top municipal
officials in Des Plaines, Charlotte and Houston had a bigger
problem: a public relations black eye.

In the past three years, the Special Operations Command has
conducted such exercises in at least 21 U.S. cities, including
Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami, New Orleans,
Pittsburgh and Seattle.

San Antonio was to be next in line for such exercises, but City
Manager Alex Briseño, Police Chief Al Philippus and Mayor
Howard Peak practically slammed the door Tuesday on proposed Delta
Force training here.

Peak said the crack outfit won't get the key to San Antonio unless
it can ensure public safety.

"They ought to go out and look for a set in Hollywood or
something," the mayor said late Tuesday. "If they're looking for a
place to play, that might be more suitable than a real, live city
and all the things we've got to look out for."

Said Philippus: "As far as I'm concerned, it's over. We're not
willing to support them."

The elite, deadly and super-secret Delta Force has spent the past
several months quietly negotiating leases and meeting with police
to map out nighttime mock air and ground assaults using live
ammunition, explosive charges and low- flying helicopters over
vacant West Side and East Side buildings.

A self-described Delta Force team leader Tuesday would not say
whether his unit asked to train here or even admit the unit exists.


But a two-page memorandum issued to the City Council, dated April
14 and signed by Philippus and City Attorney Frank Garza, describes
a meeting in which Delta Force members and municipal officials
discussed a mock assault.

The training exercises would involve about 100 Delta Force
commandos being dropped onto the rooftops of buildings by hovering
helicopters under the cover of darkness. They would use explosives
to blow their way inside, then fire on targets with possibly deadly
ceramic bullets.

No date had been set for the exercises, which would have included
St. Theresa's Academy and brushed homes on the Southeast Side.

"The nuns still live back there, and they're very protective," said
Councilwoman Debra Guerrero, whose district includes the academy.
"It's totally surrounded by neighborhoods."

Delta Force might not have gotten wind of public reaction had their
"raids" been sanctioned by the city, but Peak, Philippus and
Guerrero almost certainly would not have been as fortunate.

The flash, bang and pop of commando training in the city left
Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Dennis Nowicki and former
Houston Police Chief Sam Nuchia with a bad case of klieg-light
burn.

Like their fellow residents, neither man even knew Delta Force was
in town  --  until they faced the harsh glare of TV minicams.

"We had not informed the community," said Nuchia, now a state
appeals court judge, "and then, of course, the news media frenzied
on it."

In Des Plaines, hundreds of residents frightened by low-flying
helicopters and explosions, called police.

The city of San Antonio memorandum, citing a lengthy story in the
February 1997 edition of Soldier of Fortune magazine, said Delta
Force confirmed that $100,000 in property damage resulted from an
explosion in a warehouse district near New Orleans. In Miami, a
bullet fired during a Delta Force raid went awry, ricocheting into
the window of an all- night restaurant.

Commandos in Charlotte flew helicopters at treetop level over a
lower middle-class, predominantly African-American neighborhood
near a warehouse district on the night of March 4, 1997, prompting
one man to grab "his shotgun out of fear," Nowicki said. An old
abandoned warehouse just northwest of downtown was the target.

Nuchia said a Special Operations exercise startled Houstonians in
the Ship Channel area, causing residents to call 911.

Nuchia called the negative fallout from the mission "our
responsibility and our failure," but Nowicki said Delta Force
stumbled by putting its own needs ahead of his city.

"I don't think that they failed in their mission, but they failed
in helping us accomplish our mission," he said. "Our mission is to
maintain order and enhance the quality of life and to deal with the
fears in our community."

>....................end cite........................
Sam A. Kersh
CSM, USA (ret)
NRA Life Member BRR9724W
TSRA Life Member
JPFO, LEAA 52662
Ducks Unlimited
Operation Game Thief
http://www.flash.net/~csmkersh/csmkersh.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:05:41 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Some first hand info on the Springfield shooting   -Forwarded

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Subject: Some first hand info on the Springfield shooting
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- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:38:32 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: IP: School Shooting, Thurston High School, Springfield Oregon

For the sake of clarity and attention to detail, I have a wife here who's
sister was present at this incident. Reuter's missed/glossed a few points:

On May 21, 1998 5:10 PM EDT, Todd Murphy wrote:

>SPRINGFIELD, Ore. (Reuters) - A heavily-armed 15-year-old boy opened
>fire in a high school cafeteria Thursday, killing one person and
>injuring at least 23 others...
>The youth, who
>had been expelled Wednesday for bringing a gun to school, stood
>on a table in the Thurston High School cafeteria...
He didn't stand on the table, he stood AT the table, where he had
previously been sitting. No Rambo Image here, sorry.

>When he ran out of ammunition he reached for one of several other
>weapons but was tackled by students...
He didn't run out of ammo before he was tackled. One of his tacklers was
shot in the hand while tackling him.

>who held him until police arrived, witnesses said.
"Held" him is a little off. The boys BEAT THE LIVING TAR out of Kip. We are
talking about a major pummeling from a couple of wrestlers. The kid holding
him down for the beating reports that Kip was screaming for them to quit
pounding him, but the 'holder' just told him to shut up.

>One witness told reporters one of the
>students who tackled the gunman was shot and wounded.
How could this happen if he had run out ammo, as this article claims
earlier. By the way, this kid that got shot while tackling Kip did not let
the wound stop him from joining in on the pounding.

A student, after assisting a fellow classmate with a gaping back wound,
approached my sister in law in tears. She is now in hysterics.

Kiplin Kinkle, fifteen, was voted "Most Likely to Start World War Three"
two years in a row in the school's yearbook. He was known to take things
too far, and hold grudges.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:08:11 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: CNN Poll on School Shooting in Oregon (fwd) -Forwarded

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To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: CNN Poll on School Shooting in Oregon (fwd)
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X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

On May 21, David Wisniewski wrote:

[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]

http://www.cnn.com

As of 6:40pm EST

Who or what is most responsible for school violence?

Kids 9%
Parents 29%
Schools 1%
Media %12
Access to Guns 26%
All of the Above 20%
None of the Above 2%

[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:20:27 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: HCI STATEMENT - SHOOTING IN OREGON

http://www.handguncontrol.org/press/reaction.htm


For Immediate Release
May 21, 1998

STATEMENT OF SARAH BRADY RE:
SCHOOL SHOOTING IN OREGON

(Washington, D.C.) "Today#s shooting at Thurston High School in
Springfield, Oregon should bring every American to the realization that
the tragedy of kids and guns will not  go away # and is, in fact,
escalating.

"In early June, Representative Carolyn McCarthy will introduce
comprehensive legislation, the Children Gun Violence Prevention Act of
1998, because it is time that Congress takes responsibility for preventing
more Springfields and more Jonesboros. This legislation will hold parents
responsible if they leave their guns accessible to kids, and stringently
penalize those gun dealers and others who are selling firearms to
juveniles. It will demand that the gun manufacturers finally develop and
market a childproof gun, and extend the current ban on juvenile handgun
possession to include semi-automatic assault rifles. The research dollars
that the federal government, at the behest of the gun lobby, has not been
spending on gun injuries and fatalities will be restored, and the
Department of Education will help communities develop a comprehensive
and objective curriculum about guns and gun violence for use in their
schools.

"No Member of Congress will be able to find a sensible or sane reason to
refuse support to this legislation. This is about responsibility, safety and
education. In 1998, our politicians must support legislation to keep guns
out of the hands of our kids because Americans cannot stand to read
about one more horrific child murderer.

"There is much we do not yet know about Springfield, but one thing is
clear. The #Southern gun culture# that was examined so closely after
Jonesboro does not pertain to this small town in the Pacific Northwest.
This shooting in Oregon demonstrates that there is nowhere in this
nation, no matter how low its crime rates, that is immune from the
problem of kids and guns. All it takes is one disturbed child with access
to one gun for this kind of tragedy to happen."

Information Related to the Springfield Shooting

Oregon received a "D" in Handgun Control, Inc.#s annual Kids & Guns
Report Card.

We urge all concerned citizens to call their Representatives in Congress
and urge them to co-sponsor The Children#s Gun-Violence Prevention
Act of 1998, that will be introduced by Representative Carolyn McCarthy.
The Capitol Hill switch board number is [phone]. Call today!

Please click below for more background information about the problem of
children and guns in the United States:

#Representative Carolyn McCarthy to introduce legislation to protect our
children. #Legislative Action that will protect our families and our
communities. #Guns in our Nation#s Schools: In the past two years, over
6,000 students have been expelled for bringing firearms to school#



More information about the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence#s child
safety programs, please click here.

# # #

Handgun Control, Inc., chaired by Sarah Brady, is the nation#s largest
citizens# gun control lobbying organization. Based in Washington, DC, HCI
works to enact stronger federal, state and local gun control laws, but
does not seek to ban handguns. Founded in 1974, HCI has more than
400,000 members nationwide and works with local groups around the
country to enact and protect reasonable gun control laws. More
information about HCI and its affiliated organization, the Center to Prevent
Handgun Violence, can be found on our website at
http://www.handguncontrol.org.


- -

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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:41:09 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Freedom is not free -Forwarded

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Subject: Freedom is not free
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    To all, to noone in general,

    This is a memorium, that appeared in the
the obit column, of The Herald, Everett, Washington State,
the essence is in the message.

    I, as a general rule, don't usually peruse the
obit column, but for whatever reason the forlorn look
on that young Marine's face caught my attention.
    So young I thought, to die, so early in life.
    The look of him is for all the world like
one of the daguerreotype photo's one sees of the
Civil War reproductions of soldiers of the period.
    If what follows don't yank at your chain, then
your mettle is tougher than mine.

ET
- ---------------------------------------------------------

    In memoriam to Ronald M. Hayes, October 16, 1947 -
 May 21, 1967.

    I watched the flag pass by one day,
    It fluttered in the breeze,
    A younge Marine saluted it, and then
    He stood at ease;

    I looked at him in uniform, so young, so tall, so proud,
    With hair cut square and eyes alert,
    He'd stand out in a crowd.

    I thought how many men like him
    had fallen through the years,
    How many had died on foreign soil?
    How many mother's tears?

    How many pilot's planes shot down?
    How many died at sea?
    How many fox holes were soldiers graves?
    No, freedom is not free.

    I heard the sound of taps one night,
    When everything was still,
    I listened to the bugler play
    And felt a sudden chill.

    I wondered just how many times
    That taps meant "Amen",
    When a flag draped a coffin
    Of a brother of a friend.

    I thought of all the children,
    Of the mothers and the wives,
    Of fathers, sons and husbands
    with interupted lives.

    I thought about a graveyard
    At the bottom of the sea,
    Of unmarked graves in Alington,
    No, freedom is not free.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Remember: Memorialize the fallen.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:55:47 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: GRNC NATIONWIDE ALERT: 5-21-98 -Forwarded

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:45:46 -0400
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Subject: GRNC NATIONWIDE ALERT: 5-21-98
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Grass Roots North Carolina/Forum for Firearms Education
            P.O. Box 401, Sherrills Ford, NC  28673
              [phone],  http://www.grnc.org

GRNC NATIONWIDE ALERT: 5-21-98

Irresponsible news coverage is contributing to gun deaths among children:
STOP CNN FROM CREATING COPYCAT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS

The shootings in Oregon are now creating fever-pitch news coverage
on CNN and other television stations.  The results will be the same
as those for similar incidents in Pearl, Paducah, and Jonesboro:
The continued death of children in schools.

Describing what he called "copycatting," criminologist Thomas
Blomberg was quoted in USA TODAY after the Jonesboro shootings:
"'Right now there are kids out there taking this in.  They're saying
`man, those kids in Arkansas were 11 and 13 and they blew those
people away and they were in camouflage, man.'"

HIS PREDICTIONS HAVE COME TRUE AND WILL CONTINUE
TO DO SO AS LONG AS THE MEDIA EXPLOITS JUVENILE
VIOLENCE IN PURSUIT OF RATINGS.

GRNC implores you to:

1. Contact CNN IMMEDIATELY at [phone], http://www.cnn.com/feedback/
and tell them in no uncertain terms:

  Their media feeding frenzies after recent school tragedies are
KILLING CHILDREN

  Non-stop coverage must cease immediately to avoid future tragedies.

  The media rightly maintains that gun owners must be responsible.
But so too they must be responsible in their news coverage.

2. Contact local newspaper and television outlets with the same message.

                                  --- end ---



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:29:16 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Reese/Civilian Disarmament

Those who pull the gun ploy do
               so to avoid facing up to truth

               By Charley Reese
               Commentary

               Published in The Orlando Sentinel, May 19, 1998

               Orange County Chairman Linda Chapin, who seems to
               think she was elected County Mother, has finally pulled
               the gun ploy.

               The gun ploy is a tactic politicians who are not doing the
               job they were elected to do often use to distract voters.
               Chapin's job is being the top administrator of Orange
               County government. Judging from the problems at the
               jail and from the results of all the referenda, she's not
               doing a good job.

               So she comes out with the gun ploy, professing to be
               outraged and concerned about the rest of us allegedly
               having disinterest in saving children's lives. And she
                plays
               the ploy according to the script.

               First she exaggerates the problem. Accidental firearm
               deaths are dead last, even counting adults, as a cause of
               accidental deaths in the United States. The big killers of
               children are automobile accidents and, especially in
               Florida, drowning. In 1993, of the 90,523 Americans
               who died from accidents, 1,521 died in firearms
               accidents, and that includes both adults (by far the
               majority) and children. By contrast, 3,800 people
               drowned; 13,000 died in falls; 7,300 died from
               poisoning; and 41,000 died in motor-vehicle accidents.

               Second she trashes the National Rifle Association,
               accusing it of not being interested in keeping guns out of
               the hands of children and criminals. That is pure
               ignorance, at best, or a big, fat fib, at worst. The
               National Rifle Association is the premier teacher of gun
               safety and has been teaching gun safety and promoting
               stiff penalties for criminal use of firearms since long
               before Chapin even was born.

               She includes 19-year-olds as ``children'' and lumps
               together three separate, unrelated categories of
               accidents, homicides and suicides. She resorts to
               falsehood to rap the National Rifle Association and its
               members, and ends up advocating mandatory trigger
               locks.

               Now that's a stupid sugges-tion for two reasons. One, it
               is unenforceable unless she plans to declare martial law
               and conduct a house-to-house search on a daily basis.
               Two, someone stupid or careless enough to leave a
               loaded gun within reach of children would be stupid or
               careless enough to remove the trigger lock. You can't
               solve human problems with laws regulating inanimate
               objects.

               Finally, by blaming an inanimate object for the
               pathological behavior of human beings she reveals
               herself as irrational and superstitious. Yes, Mrs. Chapin,
               just put on your witch-doctor suit, shake your rattles and
               murmur at this inanimate object, the gun, and suddenly,
               by magic, it will give everyone a high intelligence
               quotient, high morals, a sense of responsibility and a
               healthy mind.

               Guns no more cause crimes or suicides than bricks
               cause buildings. A constant can never be the cause of a
               variable. In America, the constants are private
               ownership and ready access to firearms. The variable is
               the crime rate.

               As a matter of fact, firearms are less available and less
               accessible today than they have been at any other time in
               American history.

               But what liberals are really trying to do with the gun
                ploy
               is avoid facing the truth. The violent and brutish society
               they complain about is precisely the society they
               created. Everything liberals wanted they got.

               They wanted sexual promiscuity, dope, disregard for the
               law, no censorship of pornography, no laws against
               sodomy or public profanity, abortion on demand (the
               single biggest killer of children), easy divorces,
               acceptance of homosexuality, civilian review boards to
               second-guess police, Miranda warnings and public
               defenders, a welfare system that paid women to have
               illegitimate children and a tax system that penalized
               marriage, work, savings and investments and subsidized
               non-work and immorality. And they got every darn bit
               of it.

               It's called reaping what you sow, and it has nothing to
               do with firearms.



               [Posted 05/18/98 8:05 PM EST]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:09:56 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Learning to take the blame (Fwd)  -Forwarded

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From: Brian Baron <[e-mail]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Learning to take the blame (Fwd)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

Here is a thoughtful and well written statement that goes to the heart of
the violence problem.  I believe the points the writer makes are well worth
remembering and using.

Brian Baron, Chair
Hawaii Citizens' Rights PAC




>From: SYTEK Robert <[e-mail]>
>To: "'Brian Baron'" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Learning to take the blame
>Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:51:47 -0400
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
>
>Brian:
>On CNN today they again blamed the rise in school shootings on the
>availability of guns. It seems the media are willing to point the finger
>everywhere but at themselves.
>
>My own Mother, who is neutral on gun issues, pointed out to me a study that
>tracked children's behavior over a 10 or 15 year span. The study showed that
>children who do not have violent tendencies and watch typical violent
>television exhibit violent behavior and children who exhibit violent
>tendencies and do not watch typical violent television do not exhibit
>violent behavior.
>
>Remember when the movie the Exorcist came out in theaters? Late 1970's I
>recall. Anyway, back then movie and television violence wasn't so common. I
>recall during some of the more graphic scenes people actually getting
>nauseous and leaving the theater! Nowadays children view movies with much
>more graphic content and aren't affected. It seems our society in general
>has become desensitized to graphic violence and the representations thereof.
>
>For this reason, it is even more important that the common citizen is able
>to defend themselves. With children and adults desensitized to violent acts,
>they are able to commit these acts without hesitation or little thought.
>This makes the common citizen even more at peril and more in need of
>defending their life.
>
>Instead of more gun control, we need to examine the quality of out
>television and movie viewing. Should children be taught that violent acts
>are the way to solve problems? This is the lesson that our media teaches
>time and time again. But when it comes time to take blame for teaching this
>violent behavior, their finger always finds somebody else to point at.
>
>I am unsure of the details (who, what, when) of this study about violent
>behavior in children, so I will get more details when I call Mom this
>weekend.
>
>Brian, you may pass this message on to others if you wish. I don't mean to
>come off as so angry, but as a responsible gun owner I get tired of being
>blamed for the ills of society. All I want to do is keep my family safe
>until the police can arrive.
>
>Sincerely:
>Robert Sytek
>Technical Associate
>Complete Business Solutions Inc.
>
>
>


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:58:42 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: _TV_Causes_Murder_ -Forwarded

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From: [e-mail] (Bill Vance)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: _TV_Causes_Murder_
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

As a bit of side ammo, there was a study done some years ago by a Dr.
Centerwall (sp?).  It's referenced in a book by Michael Medved, which if I
caught the title right, is called, "Hollywood Versus America".  Anyway the
subject studied was the effect of TV on areas that didn't previously have
TV.  The study has been updated, and the results show among other things,
that:

1.  Academic studies decline, and
2.  The Murder Rate _doubles_.

Just a little something to stuff down the throats of the Media Apologists.

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


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End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #60
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