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utah-firearms-digest     Thursday, April 30 1998     Volume 02 : Number 051




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:05:53 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: Libertarian Party of Utah's Response to KSL Editorial, "Guns and Little Girls"

Our pleasure.  It was sent to KSL, DesNews,and Tribune.  If anyone
sees any portion of it in the media, I'd love to hear about it.

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]> posted:

>Yay, Charles!  My thanks to you and the Utah Libertarian Party.
>
>Sarah
>
>
- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will
 convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would
 do and the harm it would cause if improperly administered." -- Lyndon
 Baines Johnson, former Senator and President.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:09:21 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Weapon Ban at Hospital

From today's front page Tribune.

I do not have a CCW.  However, I think those who do need to send a
letter to the hospital immediately challenging their adminstrative
ruling before it gains the force of law.  Certainly, the hospital
should have secure areas where guns are not allowed.  They have
facitlities to check weapons already.  But there is no way they should
be able to prohibit weapons from cars or anyplace on the grounds where
there is not security to protect the disarmed.  A letter to Sen
Waddoups would also be in order.  <[e-mail]> is his
email address.  If every piece of government owned property is allowed
to circumvent or ignore the CCW law with "adminstrative" rulings, it
won't be long before your CCW is invalid in about 90% of the State.


              Wednesday, April 29, 1998
Hospital To Ban Guns Starting Friday




            BY JUDY FAHYS
            THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE


                The state's largest mental institution -- the Utah State
            Hospital in Provo -- is about to become one of the few places in
            Utah where a concealed-weapons permit is not recognized.
                A gun ban is set to take effect Friday.
                Cameras are not permitted in the hospital. Nor are pocket knives
            or illegal drugs. And, although administrators have long carried out
            a policy barring firearms, they never have had the force of law
            behind them until now.
                But, even before it becomes effective, some gun-rights advocates
            contend the prohibition goes far beyond what state law allows.
                ``I don't think they have got the right to do that,'' said Sen.
            Mike Waddoups, a Taylorsville Republican and gun-rights advocate.
            ``If [weapons] are prohibited on the entire campus, they are going
            too far.''


                        Recent Tribune Coverage



                        Olympics May Unload On Gun Laws in Utah, (3-15-98)
                        Lawmakers Can't Hide From This Gun Fight, (1-11-98)
                        Utah Legislative Action on Guns 1998




                Waddoups sponsored the 1995 law that made concealed-weapons
            permits valid ``without restriction.''
                An ``administrative rule'' implementing the ban is set to go
            into effect Friday, as long as the hospital doesn't receive any
            objections. It would apply to state employees and visitors, as well
            as the hospital's 340 patients.
                Hospital officials have had the authority to keep weapons from
            parts of the facility since 1996. Aware of the risks inherent in
            some state-operated facilities, legislators built a few exceptions
            into the concealed-weapons law to permit ``secure areas'' in courts,
            jails and mental hospitals. Airports were added in 1997.
                Yet, officials at the state hospital never undertook the process
            necessary to implement the law at their facility. On April 1, they
            published a new rule that will give the hospital's longstanding
            practices some legal teeth.
                Until now, the hospital has relied on its ``no weapons'' policy,
            which is declared to all on a sign at the facility's entrance.
                ``Probably all these years we were doing it by policy [rather
            than law] and, frankly, we always have felt protected under the
            policy,'' said Janina Chilton, spokeswoman for the state's Division
            of Mental Health. ``This [new rule] raises the bar.''
                Dangerous weapons have been a problem at the hospital from time
            to time, according to Chilton.
                She recalled an incident in the early 1980s in which a hospital
            security officer was shot in the leg by a former patient who was
            being escorted off the grounds. In the early '90s, an employee was
            killed with a a knife a patient got from the kitchen.
                Most commonly, though, the hospital gets into hassles over the
            policy with law enforcement personnel who are directed to check
            their weapons in safe boxes outside patient units. And hospital
            staff sometimes bristle about being told they should not bring their
            concealed weapons to work.
                Chilton said some employees have complained about the policy,
            but she added, ``We don't even want them in the cars.''
                The new rule would make it clear no weapons are allowed anywhere
            on the 325-acre campus.
                ``Weapons, contraband, illegal substances, firearms, such as,
            but not limited to, pistols, sawed-off rifles, revolvers, or any
            device that could be used as a weapon are prohibited on the campus
            of the Utah State Hospital,'' the new rule says. ``Law enforcement
            personnel may bring their weapons onto the campus. However, they
            must secure their weapon in a secure weapon storage area before
            entering a treatment unit.''
                Peter Heinbecker, director of the state hospital's forensics
            unit, was surprised to learn that such a law was not already in
            place.
                ``We can't have people with guns on our unit,'' said the doctor,
            whose unit oversees many patients who have been referred to the
            hospital from the criminal justice system.
                Meanwhile, there is spotty enforcement of the current no-gun
            policy. A metal detector purchased for the entrance to the forensics
            ward has not been installed, and visitors sometimes enter the ward
            without a pat-down search, said Heinbecker.
                He called the campuswide gun ban ``a fantastic idea'' and
            pointed out many patients are free to wander the grounds where they
            might be able to get weapons that could be used against themselves
            or other people.
                ``I don't know why anyone needs to bring weapons onto the
            grounds,'' he said.
                Waddoups pointed out that a legal opinion issued earlier this
            year by the Legislature's General Counsel specifically said it is
            illegal for the University of Utah to ban weapons from its campus
            and facilities.
                It also said there was no legal basis for a Department of Human
            Resource Management rule that prohibited state employees from
            carrying firearms in state facilities, vehicles or while on state
            business.
                Waddoups agreed there is some justification for prohibiting
            certain people from having firearms -- ``particularly patients'' --
            in certain parts of the state hospital.
                ``It has to be addressed rationally like anyplace else,'' he
            said.









            ⌐ Copyright 1998, The Salt Lake Tribune

            All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake
            Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced
            or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune.


            Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here.



- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and are
 therefore called natural rights, such as life and liberty, need not the
 aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they
 are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by
 the municipal laws to be inviolate. On the contrary, no human
 legislature has power to abridge or destroy them, unless the owner shall
 himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture." -- Sir William
 Blackstone

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:15:55 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Email to Legislators

FYI,

I've sent the following to a couple legislators.  Please take a moment
and send something to your State rep and senator.  Feel free to use
any ideas below you like, but please reword enough to make it
original.

(Scott should particularly interested in the part about mass transit
and bikes. :)



Dear,

I'm writing about the front page story in today's Tribune, included
below.  It seems the Utah State Hospital in Provo is attempting to
ignore State law with regard to concealed weapons permits by banning
all weapons from ALL hospital property, including inside private cars.

Undoubtedly, a mental health facility should be free to implement
secure areas where weapons are prohibited.  It seems the hospital has
long done so providing secure storage facilities for the weapons of
peace officers entering the area.  But by no stretch of the
imagination is the entire campus a secure area.  There is not adequate
security on the grounds or parking lots to declare these secure areas.
Neither are there storage facilities available for guests, employees,
or peace officers to secure their weapons in these areas.

No government agency should be able to declare ANY area or land a
"secure area" and thus prohibit the carry of legally permitted weapons
unless there is a compelling need to decare the area secure AND REAL
security measures (armed guards, metal detectors, controlled access)
are in place AND secure storage facilities are provided for legally
carried weapons.  Lacking secure storage, any rule or law prohibiting
weapons in one area effectively extends all the way to the nearest
area where the weapon may be safely stored.  For anyone using mass
transit, walking, or riding a bike, that area is their home and they
are effectively disarmed and defenseless from the time they leave home
to the time they return.  Forcing people to choose between being able
to defend themselves and using mass/alternate transportation is not
the way to encourage the use of mass/alternate transportation.

The State Hospital's ban of weapons even in cars is beyond belief.  If
the hospital can show some need to "secure" the entire building, so be
it.  But it must provide storage at the entrance.  And it must not be
allowed to prohibit legal items in automobiles.

I'm afraid Governor Leavitt's blatant ignoral of State law in the
matter of concealed weapons is spreading all too rapidly.  School
boards prevent teachers from providing for self defense while on
school grounds.  The UofU currently prevents students and faculty from
providing for self defense while on tax-payer funded property.  And
now the State hospital joins in.

I urge you to speak out publicly on this matter and to introduce and
push, at the earliest possible moment, legislation to force everyone
from our Governor on down to abide by the laws of this State and
respect the rights and privleges of her citizens.  You must do so
before every piece of government controlled property in this State is
declared off-limits to legally carried weapons of self defense and our
CCW law is rendered moot.  We are a nation of laws, not of men, and
the laws must be obeyed even by those who own phobias, bigotry, or
political agenda make it unpleasant to do so.

So you know, I have not yet chosen to obtain a State issued permit to
carry a concealed weapon.  But I am deeply troubled anytime I see
elected officials and government employees flagrantly disregarding the
same laws I, as common citizen, am expected to obey.

I appreciate your attentention and response to this mattter.

Sincerely

Charles Hardy

- ---Begin Tribune Article---


              Wednesday, April 29, 1998
Hospital To Ban Guns Starting Friday




            BY JUDY FAHYS
            THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE


                The state's largest mental institution -- the Utah State
            Hospital in Provo -- is about to become one of the few places in
            Utah where a concealed-weapons permit is not recognized.
                A gun ban is set to take effect Friday.
                Cameras are not permitted in the hospital. Nor are pocket knives
            or illegal drugs. And, although administrators have long carried out
            a policy barring firearms, they never have had the force of law
            behind them until now.
                But, even before it becomes effective, some gun-rights advocates
            contend the prohibition goes far beyond what state law allows.
                ``I don't think they have got the right to do that,'' said Sen.
            Mike Waddoups, a Taylorsville Republican and gun-rights advocate.
            ``If [weapons] are prohibited on the entire campus, they are going
            too far.''


                        Recent Tribune Coverage



                        Olympics May Unload On Gun Laws in Utah, (3-15-98)
                        Lawmakers Can't Hide From This Gun Fight, (1-11-98)
                        Utah Legislative Action on Guns 1998




                Waddoups sponsored the 1995 law that made concealed-weapons
            permits valid ``without restriction.''
                An ``administrative rule'' implementing the ban is set to go
            into effect Friday, as long as the hospital doesn't receive any
            objections. It would apply to state employees and visitors, as well
            as the hospital's 340 patients.
                Hospital officials have had the authority to keep weapons from
            parts of the facility since 1996. Aware of the risks inherent in
            some state-operated facilities, legislators built a few exceptions
            into the concealed-weapons law to permit ``secure areas'' in courts,
            jails and mental hospitals. Airports were added in 1997.
                Yet, officials at the state hospital never undertook the process
            necessary to implement the law at their facility. On April 1, they
            published a new rule that will give the hospital's longstanding
            practices some legal teeth.
                Until now, the hospital has relied on its ``no weapons'' policy,
            which is declared to all on a sign at the facility's entrance.
                ``Probably all these years we were doing it by policy [rather
            than law] and, frankly, we always have felt protected under the
            policy,'' said Janina Chilton, spokeswoman for the state's Division
            of Mental Health. ``This [new rule] raises the bar.''
                Dangerous weapons have been a problem at the hospital from time
            to time, according to Chilton.
                She recalled an incident in the early 1980s in which a hospital
            security officer was shot in the leg by a former patient who was
            being escorted off the grounds. In the early '90s, an employee was
            killed with a a knife a patient got from the kitchen.
                Most commonly, though, the hospital gets into hassles over the
            policy with law enforcement personnel who are directed to check
            their weapons in safe boxes outside patient units. And hospital
            staff sometimes bristle about being told they should not bring their
            concealed weapons to work.
                Chilton said some employees have complained about the policy,
            but she added, ``We don't even want them in the cars.''
                The new rule would make it clear no weapons are allowed anywhere
            on the 325-acre campus.
                ``Weapons, contraband, illegal substances, firearms, such as,
            but not limited to, pistols, sawed-off rifles, revolvers, or any
            device that could be used as a weapon are prohibited on the campus
            of the Utah State Hospital,'' the new rule says. ``Law enforcement
            personnel may bring their weapons onto the campus. However, they
            must secure their weapon in a secure weapon storage area before
            entering a treatment unit.''
                Peter Heinbecker, director of the state hospital's forensics
            unit, was surprised to learn that such a law was not already in
            place.
                ``We can't have people with guns on our unit,'' said the doctor,
            whose unit oversees many patients who have been referred to the
            hospital from the criminal justice system.
                Meanwhile, there is spotty enforcement of the current no-gun
            policy. A metal detector purchased for the entrance to the forensics
            ward has not been installed, and visitors sometimes enter the ward
            without a pat-down search, said Heinbecker.
                He called the campuswide gun ban ``a fantastic idea'' and
            pointed out many patients are free to wander the grounds where they
            might be able to get weapons that could be used against themselves
            or other people.
                ``I don't know why anyone needs to bring weapons onto the
            grounds,'' he said.
                Waddoups pointed out that a legal opinion issued earlier this
            year by the Legislature's General Counsel specifically said it is
            illegal for the University of Utah to ban weapons from its campus
            and facilities.
                It also said there was no legal basis for a Department of Human
            Resource Management rule that prohibited state employees from
            carrying firearms in state facilities, vehicles or while on state
            business.
                Waddoups agreed there is some justification for prohibiting
            certain people from having firearms -- ``particularly patients'' --
            in certain parts of the state hospital.
                ``It has to be addressed rationally like anyplace else,'' he
            said.









            ⌐ Copyright 1998, The Salt Lake Tribune

            All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake
            Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced
            or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune.


            Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here.



- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and are
 therefore called natural rights, such as life and liberty, need not the
 aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they
 are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by
 the municipal laws to be inviolate. On the contrary, no human
 legislature has power to abridge or destroy them, unless the owner shall
 himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture." -- Sir William
 Blackstone


- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"To violate the spirit of the law, while pretending to respect the
letter of it, is a fraud no less criminal in character than an open
violation of the law would be; it is not less contrary to the intention
of the legislator, and indicates only a more cunning and deliberate
wickedness." The Law Of Nations Or The Principal Of Natural Law, Emer
 De Vettel, Book II, Chapter XVII, Section 291

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:32:01 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Scott Engen's comments

Wednesday, April 29, 1998
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------




Mandela No Moral Authority






### The column by Michael Nakoryakov (Tribune, April 12) flatters
South Africa's Nelson Mandela as one of the world's foremost ``moral
authorities,'' and lauds his 27 years in prison for his ``anti-apartheid
convictions.'' Let's look at the unvarnished historic facts. Nelson Mandela
was and is a devoted Marxist revolutionary. He didn't spend decades
behind bars for speaking out against racial oppression, organizing a
legitimate political party or a labor union, or publishing unflattering
comments about the barbaric apartheid policies of South Africa.
### Nelson Mandela was convicted in a court of criminal law for helping
to build and detonate a bomb that was used to murder a half-dozen
police officers, and then remained a fugitive from justice for nearly two
years. He is not the Thomas Jefferson of South Africa. He's South
Africa's home-grown version of Timothy McVeigh.
### Through circumstance, fraud and the whims of political fate,
terrorists, murderers and other scoundrels sometimes emerge as victors
in the electoral process. Israel's Menachem Begin helped murder
hundreds of British officers at the King David Hotel with a truck bomb in
the late 1940s. Egypt's Anwar Sadat was part of a bloody coup attempt
in the 1950s. Both of these admitted terrorists ironically later went on to
win the Nobel Prize for Peace. Hitler was the lawfully elected chancellor
of Germany before embarking on a career of worldwide genocide.
Richard Nixon forever disgraced the office of the presidency by
attempting to steal a free election from the American people.
### Perhaps The Tribune's Nakoryakov has a weakness for the old
Soviet-state practice of rewriting history. His admiration of Mandela may
stem from some political kinship. Regardless of the cause, as a convicted
terrorist and murderer, Nelson Mandela has no ``moral authority.'' I
believe people like Desmond Tutu, Rosa Parks and a little girl from Topeka
named Brown have moral authority. Mandela forfeited any possible claim
to any form of morality when he lit the fuse of that bloody bomb decades
ago.
### SCOTT ENGEN
### Salt Lake City


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:44:41 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Weapon Ban at Utah State Hospital

Address for comments follows article.

The next USSC Board meeting will be Monday May 4, at 6:30 PM at the
Crossroads of the West offices, 7 N. Main Street, Kaysville.  Meetings are
open to all interested persons.


>              Wednesday, April 29, 1998 =20
>Hospital To Ban Guns Starting Friday
           =20
>            BY JUDY FAHYS
>            THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
>               =20
>               =20
>                The state's largest mental institution -- the Utah State=20
>            Hospital in Provo -- is about to become one of the few places=
 in=20
>            Utah where a concealed-weapons permit is not recognized.=20
>                A gun ban is set to take effect Friday.=20
>                Cameras are not permitted in the hospital. Nor are pocket
knives=20
>            or illegal drugs. And, although administrators have long
carried out=20
>            a policy barring firearms, they never have had the force of law=
=20
>            behind them until now.=20
>                But, even before it becomes effective, some gun-rights
advocates=20
>            contend the prohibition goes far beyond what state law allows.=
=20
>                ``I don't think they have got the right to do that,'' said
Sen.=20
>            Mike Waddoups, a Taylorsville Republican and gun-rights
advocate.=20
>            ``If [weapons] are prohibited on the entire campus, they are
going=20
>            too far.''                   =20
>            =20
>                Waddoups sponsored the 1995 law that made concealed-weapons=
=20
>            permits valid ``without restriction.''=20
>                An ``administrative rule'' implementing the ban is set to=
 go=20
>            into effect Friday, as long as the hospital doesn't receive any=
=20
>            objections. It would apply to state employees and visitors, as
well=20
>            as the hospital's 340 patients.=20
>                Hospital officials have had the authority to keep weapons
from=20
>            parts of the facility since 1996. Aware of the risks inherent=
 in=20
>            some state-operated facilities, legislators built a few
exceptions=20
>            into the concealed-weapons law to permit ``secure areas'' in
courts,=20
>            jails and mental hospitals. Airports were added in 1997.=20
>                Yet, officials at the state hospital never undertook the
process=20
>            necessary to implement the law at their facility. On April 1,
they=20
>            published a new rule that will give the hospital's longstanding=
=20
>            practices some legal teeth.=20
>                Until now, the hospital has relied on its ``no weapons''
policy,=20
>            which is declared to all on a sign at the facility's entrance.=
=20
>                ``Probably all these years we were doing it by policy
[rather=20
>            than law] and, frankly, we always have felt protected under the=
=20
>            policy,'' said Janina Chilton, spokeswoman for the state's
Division=20
>            of Mental Health. ``This [new rule] raises the bar.''=20
>                Dangerous weapons have been a problem at the hospital from
time=20
>            to time, according to Chilton.=20
>                She recalled an incident in the early 1980s in which a
hospital=20
>            security officer was shot in the leg by a former patient who=
 was=20
>            being escorted off the grounds. In the early '90s, an employee
was=20
>            killed with a a knife a patient got from the kitchen.=20
>                Most commonly, though, the hospital gets into hassles over
the=20
>            policy with law enforcement personnel who are directed to check=
=20
>            their weapons in safe boxes outside patient units. And hospital=
=20
>            staff sometimes bristle about being told they should not bring
their=20
>            concealed weapons to work.=20
>                Chilton said some employees have complained about the
policy,=20
>            but she added, ``We don't even want them in the cars.''=20
>                The new rule would make it clear no weapons are allowed
anywhere=20
>            on the 325-acre campus.=20
>                ``Weapons, contraband, illegal substances, firearms, such
as,=20
>            but not limited to, pistols, sawed-off rifles, revolvers, or=
 any=20
>            device that could be used as a weapon are prohibited on the
campus=20
>            of the Utah State Hospital,'' the new rule says. ``Law
enforcement=20
>            personnel may bring their weapons onto the campus. However,=
 they=20
>            must secure their weapon in a secure weapon storage area before=
=20
>            entering a treatment unit.''=20
>                Peter Heinbecker, director of the state hospital's=
 forensics=20
>            unit, was surprised to learn that such a law was not already in=
=20
>            place.=20
>                ``We can't have people with guns on our unit,'' said the
doctor,=20
>            whose unit oversees many patients who have been referred to the=
=20
>            hospital from the criminal justice system.=20
>                Meanwhile, there is spotty enforcement of the current=
 no-gun=20
>            policy. A metal detector purchased for the entrance to the
forensics=20
>            ward has not been installed, and visitors sometimes enter the
ward=20
>            without a pat-down search, said Heinbecker.=20
>                He called the campuswide gun ban ``a fantastic idea'' and=
=20
>            pointed out many patients are free to wander the grounds where
they=20
>            might be able to get weapons that could be used against
themselves=20
>            or other people.=20
>                ``I don't know why anyone needs to bring weapons onto the=
=20
>            grounds,'' he said.=20
>                Waddoups pointed out that a legal opinion issued earlier
this=20
>            year by the Legislature's General Counsel specifically said it
is=20
>            illegal for the University of Utah to ban weapons from its
campus=20
>            and facilities.=20
>                It also said there was no legal basis for a Department of
Human=20
>            Resource Management rule that prohibited state employees from=
=20
>            carrying firearms in state facilities, vehicles or while on
state=20
>            business.=20
>                Waddoups agreed there is some justification for prohibiting=
=20
>            certain people from having firearms -- ``particularly
patients'' --=20
>            in certain parts of the state hospital.=20
>                ``It has to be addressed rationally like anyplace else,''=
 he=20
>            said.=20
>                           =20
>           =20
>            =A9 Copyright 1998, The Salt Lake Tribune
>           =20
>            All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake=
=20
>            Tribune and associated news services. No material may be
reproduced=20
>            or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake
Tribune.=20
>
>           =20
>            Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here.
>
>
The address for comments is:

Danette Faretta-Brady (is that name a coincidence?)
Human Services
Mental Health, State Hospital
1300 East Center Street
PO Box 270
Provo, UT 84606
Phone: [phone]
email: [e-mail]

Deadline for comments is: 5PM, May 1, 1998

I've seen the administrative ruling, and while I'm not an attorney, it
seems clear to me that it violates Utah Code, Sec. 76-8-311.1, particularly
subsection (4) which requires provisions for safe storage of weapons in a
secure facility, and section (1)(e)(ii) which provides that "a secure area
may not include any area normally accessible to the public."

And as Sen. Waddoups stated, it clearly violates the "without restriction"
clause of the Utah Concealed Carry law.

Sarah Thompson

The following Board members have volunteered to have their contact info
made public.  Please feel free to contact them, but please do not abuse
their open-door policy. =20

Doug Henrichsen, 771-3196(h), [e-mail]
Elwood Powell,  426-8274 or 583-2882 (h), 364-0412 (w),
    [e-mail]
Shirley Spain, 963-0784, [e-mail]
Bob Templeton, 544-9125 (w), 546-2275 (h)
Sarah Thompson, 566-1067, [e-mail]  (I prefer e-mail to phone
calls when possible).
Joe Venus, 571-2223




To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to:
[e-mail]
In the SUBJECT of the message put:
SUBSCRIBE USSC

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:35:59 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Please act - NBC

Longtime firearms activist and writer David Kopel of the Independence
Institute in Colorado requested that I pass this along.  I have not
personally verified any of the information.

Sarah


BOYCOTT OF "LIRR INCIDENT" SPONSORS GAINING STEAM

Judging by copies of letters to NBC received to date, the initial
response is encouraging.  But we need to spread the word and get more
people to contact NBC and let them know you and your family will
boycott any sponsors of  "The Incident on Long Island" TV movie, set
to air May 3 on NBC.

You will recall that this Barbra Streisand production is little more
than a promotional piece for anti-gun zealot Rep. Carolyn McCarthy
(D-NY), who is up for re-election this year.  The TV movie reportedly
contains numerous mis-statements about guns and the Second Amendment,
as well as vicious attacks on the NRA and politicians who voted to
repeal the 1994 Clinton "assault weapon" ban.  The movie exploits the
tragic Long Island Railroad massacre, the ensuing trial of
mass-murderer Colin Ferguson, and McCarthy's campaign for Congress to
boost McCarthy and slam the NRA and gun rights.

A campaign is under way to fight this.  Many people have already
contacted NBC and informed them that they will boycott all
sponsors who advertise on the program, explaining that we will
not stand for intentional distortions of fact and slander of the NRA,
RKBA, and our political allies.

A list of sponsors will be circulated immediately after the May
3 broadcast.  Efforts to ascertain sponors in advance are still
being made.

Send your comments now to [e-mail].

and leave comments at their websites and landmail

http://www.nbc.com/

(you can go to your local affiliate stations homepage by searching
w/ zipcode from this page)

NATIONAL BROADCASTING CO INC.
Viewer Relations
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY
10112-0002

Phone Number:
[phone]  (ask for Viewer Relations, leave a recorded (likely) or
 live message)


http://www.nbc4la.com/   (LA's KNBC channel 4; click on feedback)
KNBC TV - Comments
3000 W Alameda Ave, Burbank, CA 91523
[phone]  (comments must be written)


Please continue to spread the word, and do your part!




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:18:53 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Teen Forum:   Ethics, not guns, blamed for shootings (fwd)

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From: [e-mail] (Bill Vance)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Teen Forum:   Ethics, not guns, blamed for shootings (fwd)
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X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

On Apr 30, Tom Cloyes wrote:

[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]

>From the mouths of babes! This is encouraging.
Tom

>Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:45:40 -0400
>From: E Pluribus Unum <[e-mail]>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U)
>To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Teen Forum:   Ethics, not guns, blamed for shootings
>
>Teen Forum:   Ethics, not guns, blamed for shootings
>Wednesday, April 29, 1998
>By Bill Steigerwald, Post-Gazette Staff Writer
>
>Guns don't kill children on the school playgrounds of Jonesboro or at
>eighth grade dances in Edinboro, young people do.
>
>Or, in the case of the horror in Jonesboro, the killing is done by
>gun-happy boys with no consciences and clueless parents who don't stress
>responsibility.
>
>The above could be a bumper-sticker argument straight from National
>Rifle Association headquarters.
>
>But it is also an accurate summation of what Keith Bocian, Melyssa
>Jenkins, Tom Marvit, Aaron Reed, Jennifer Schaupp and James Ziegler
>think when it comes to placing blame for America's continuing scourge of
>gun-related violence.
>
>In their discussion of guns and how to control the damage they do at
>last week's Teen Forum, the six high school students made it clear that,
>as far as they are concerned, the Second Amendment still rules. For
>despite what happened in Jonesboro, Ark., and the death toll elsewhere
>from America's love affair with firearms, not one of them says they
>would want the Constitution changed to outlaw guns.
>
>Let's get one thing straight. The six are not, through some quirk of
>random selection, sons and daughters of wild game hunters or militia
>members. Far from it. Mostly city kids, they've hardly had any
>experience with shooting anything more lethal than a Super Soaker.
>
>Guns do not play an important part in their lives. Most of them don't
>like guns and wouldn't use one to kill any living thing. The boys -
>Keith, Tom, Aaron, James - say they could get their hands on a gun any
>time they wanted from someone they know. But they don't see guns openly
>displayed in their neighborhoods or schools.
>
>Only Tom, a sophomore at Taylor Allderdice, has seen a gun in school.
>
>Well, actually, he didn't see it himself but one of his friends saw it
>when it fell out of a student's backpack. The student pointed it at a
>substitute teacher, then threw it out the classroom window. He was a
>student who was often in trouble, but he got off without punishment, Tom
>says, because of "a technicality.""
>
>Aaron, a Brashear High School freshman from the Hill District, is the
>only one who says he's ever come close to shooting a gun in hot anger.
>
>It happened after he got jumped by four unarmed kids in his
>neighborhood. He went and got his 14-year-old friend's "heat," a
>.38-caliber pistol. He was going to "do" them with the pistol, Aaron
>says. He was going to make them show him respect. "I just wanted to
>shoot them. It was my mentality at the time." But Aaron cooled off and
>took the gun back to his friend. "I guess it's not in me to kill
>someone," he says.
>
>Now, none of the six would ever think of using a gun to even a score.
>"It doesn't even up the scales, it tips the balance," says Keith, a
>Perry Hilltop 18-year-old. Anyway, Tom says, there are lots of other
>ways to retaliate against your persecutors - from telling on them to
>getting a friend in the library to put fines on their library books.
>
>Keith is the only one who lives in a house that has guns. His father's
>pistol and his brother's hunting rifle hold no special appeal to him,
>yet he sounds like a natural-born spokesman for the NRA and others who
>uphold gun-owners' rights.
>
>"The problem's not with guns," he says confidently during a discussion
>of the Jonesboro massacre. "The problem was with the kids' ethics."
>
>Tom is less reluctant to blame guns for violence rather than our
>culture. He thinks it's the way Americans have been taught. He knows
>that in Israel, as in Switzerland, everyone has pistols, rifles or even
>machine guns in their house for purposes of national defense. But in
>Israel, he says, you never hear about anyone using their guns for crime.
>
>Tom thinks everyone should take responsibility for his own actions,
>including the Jonesboro boys, whom he says knew exactly what they were
>doing and "should be prosecuted as adults." But Aaron thinks adults are
>to blame.
>
>If those boys in Arkansas hadn't been introduced to guns so early by
>their parents, he argues, the slaughter would never have happened.
>
>Meanwhile, Aaron's Hill District neighbor James, a junior at
>Pittsburgh's High School for the Creative and Performing Arts, is the
>only one of the six who expresses a view that gun-control advocates
>could find encouraging.
>
>"I don't see why people have to have guns," he says. "Hunting and
>everything, that's pretty fun. But I don't see why there couldn't be
>some kind of renting process where you have the gun all day to go out
>into the woods or whatever. I just don't see why you absolutely need to
>have a gun in your house. For self-protection, that's OK, but..."
>
>"It's in the Constitution," argues Melyssa, who shows why she may become
>a lawyer some day..
>
>"Even if you do take away the guns," Keith says, "how do you enforce the
>law? How do say, 'Well, cops can have guns, but nobody else can'?""
>
>"Yeah," Melyssa says, "because the cops could take their guns home."
>
>But James thinks gun ownership should be more limited. For example, he
>says, "You shouldn't have guns or ammunition in the house if you have
>children."
>
>Melyssa doesn't buy it.
>
>"It's hard to single people with children out, or people with anything
>out, whenever the Constitution says you have the right to bear arms.
>
>"It doesn't say you have the right to bear arms if you don't have
>children or if you don't have a bad temper. And that's the Constitution.
>
>If we can't violate freedom of speech or freedom of the press, we
>shouldn't violate that one either.
>
>"It's all about being responsible."
>--
>******************************************************************
>      E Pluribus Unum            The Central Ohio Patriot Group
>      P.O. Box 791          Eventline/Voicemail: [phone]
>      Grove City, OH 43123
>
>Meetings:  Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse
>       3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.)
>
>http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib            [e-mail]
>******************************************************************

[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


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End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #51
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