ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/utah-firearms/archive/v02.n003

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-20 | 30KB

From:      [e-mail]
To:        [e-mail]
Subject:   utah-firearms Digest V2 #3
Reply-To:  [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence:


utah-firearms Digest      Tuesday, 20 August 1996      Volume 02 : Number 003

In this issue:

    Utah Health Dept. warning -- from -- Non-member submission from [[e-mail]]
    Utah Health Dept Polls about Firearms in Homes
    [[e-mail]: 2nd Amendment to Supremes?]
    Letter to Legislators
    school zone maps
    Re: Letter to Legislators
    Re: Letter to Legislators
    FOX to air story on Lott paper
    Action! Lott CCW stufi to the legislature, gov, and mayors
    LPU: Browne on KALL
    CCW discussion on KTKK
    Re: CCW discussion on KTKK
    Off-topic: Banks
    LPU: Browne Wins "Election"

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the utah-firearms
or utah-firearms-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chad Leigh -- The Electronic GunShop)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:20:48 -0600
Subject: Utah Health Dept. warning -- from -- Non-member submission from [[e-mail]]

Scott - the list only accepts posts from the email address you are
subscribed through...

>Date: Mon,  5 Aug 96 20:06:00 -0700
>To: [e-mail]
>Organization: State of Utah (UTAHNET) 801-538-3383
>Subject: Health Dept Firearms Poll
>
>Subject: Utah Health Dept Polls about Firearms in Homes
>
>Today I received a call from Cecilia of Gallup Opinion Poll in
>Lincoln, Nebraska conducting a poll on behalf of the Utah State
>Health Department. Along with numerous questions about health,
>demographics, accidents, diet, medical insurance, etc., was a
>question about whether there were any firearms in the home.
>Although I declined to answer, this question is troubling since it
>appears that the Utah State Health Department may be attempting to
>make firearms a public health issue and make consequent regulatory
>recommendations to the Legislature.
>
>The point of contact is Lois Hagert (sp?), 538-9455. Her secretary
>is Kim Bangerter. Please inform me or the Utah-Firearms list of
>any developments.
>

- ------------------------- Live Free or Die ! ---------------------------
Chad Leigh              |  When Guns are Outlawed, Criminals Win!
Pengar Enterprises, Inc -- Home of          The Electronic GunShop (sm)
http://www.xmission.com/~pengar/gunshop     mailto:[e-mail]
http://www.xmission.com/~pengar/gunshop/egs_text.html  for text interface
Ask me about it!  Classifeds and Commercial Ads & free Firearms and
Activism Info
- --------------------$4/month commercial WWW space!!!--------------------



------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:32:44 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Utah Health Dept Polls about Firearms in Homes

Today I received a call from Cecilia of Gallup Opinion Poll in
Lincoln, Nebraska conducting a poll on behalf of the Utah State
Health Department. Along with numerous questions about health,
demographics, accidents, diet, medical insurance, etc., was a
question about whether there were any firearms in the home.
Although I declined to answer, this question is troubling since it
appears that the Utah State Health Department may be attempting to
make firearms a public health issue and make consequent regulatory
recommendations to the Legislature.

The point of contact is Lois Hagert (sp?), 538-9455. Her secretary
is Kim Bangerter. Please inform me or the Utah-Firearms list of
any developments.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:04:06 -0600
Subject: [[e-mail]: 2nd Amendment to Supremes?]

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----

I previously posted this message. However, I am reposting it because we
we need to line up amicus briefs (at the Petition for Writ of Cert
level).  If you know of an organization which would like to submit a
brief, or sign on to one, please call us at [phone].  Briefs are
due on Monday, August 19!!!


Hickman v. Block: A Second Amendment Case Goes to the Supreme Court (Or
Does It)
    May You Defend Yourself?
    Although the answer to this question seems obvious, some
self-proclaimed "experts" claim you do not have this right. They
suggest the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution only
guarantees a state's right to maintain a militia.
    What's more, these same "experts" suggest the Second Amendment
does not prohibit gun control, not even total confiscation.
    Scholars Agree: A Personal Right -- Of the 45 law review articles

analyzing the Second Amendment since 1980, 40 concluded it guarantees a

personal right. Four of the others were written by "researchers" paid
by anti-gun groups, and one was by a politician!
    Indeed, all evidence from the Constitutional Convention shows the

Founding Fathers intended the Second Amendment to be a personal right.
Just ask the British: on April 19, 1775, they marched to Concord to
confiscate the Americans' firearms, and touched off the Revolutionary
War.
    The Ninth Circuit Weighs In -- The U.S. Supreme Court has never
addressed the question of whether the Amendment protects an individual
right. However, on April 5, 1996, the ultra-liberal Ninth Circuit held
in Hickman v. Block that the Second Amendment did not guarantee your
right to own a firearm. Rather, the Ninth Circuit held the Amendment
only guarantees a "state's right" to maintain a militia.
    That's when The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society (LSAS) went
into action. On July 5, 1996, the LSAS filed a Petition for Writ of
Certiorari (a request for the U.S. Supreme Court to hear an appeal of
the Ninth Circuit's decision) on behalf of the plaintiff, Ray Hickman.
    It is anybody's guess what the Court will do. However, if the
Court agrees to hear Hickman, we intend to win.
    $5 for Freedom -- To be successful, we need your help. We are
asking every gun owner to contribute at least $5 to the cause. With a
well-funded war chest, we will hire the best legal minds in the country
to write the brief and argue the case. Is your freedom worth $5?
    Surplus funds will be used to underwrite other worthwhile
pro-firearms litigation. Everyone is invited to join the LSAS; dues are

$35 for lawyers, $25 for all others, and include a subscription to our
acclaimed newsletter, "The Liberty Pole."

Thank you for your support.

Dan Schultz, President
Steve Silver, Vice President
The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society
18034 Ventura Blvd., No. 329, Encino, CA 91316 [phone]
web site: http://www.mcs.net/~lpyleprn/law_pole.html
(The LSAS is a non-profit 501(c)(4) tax-exempt organization; Donations
are *not* tax-deductible.)







- ----- End Included Message -----


- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

"The difficulty here has been to persuade the citizens to keep arms, not
 to prevent them from being employed for violent purposes." -- Dwight
"Travels in New-England"

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:36:20 -0600
Subject: Letter to Legislators

Below is my first swipe at a letter to my legislators on the CCW
changes swirling around the media.  It is a little over 700 words and
I am concerned about the length.  I can't decide whether to send it as
is, try to shorten it but hit all the same points (private property,
businesses, churches, schools) or to break it into two shorter letters
one dealing with perhaps churches and schools and one dealing with
businesses and private property.  Suggestions would be appreciated.

Charles Hardy
xxxx
xxx

August 6, 1996

Hon. Senator David Buhler
1844 E. Hollywood Ave.
SLC, UT  84108

Dear Senator Buhler

I am writing in regard to the proposed changes to Utah's concealed
weapon permit laws I have heard about in the media.  Particularly
those that would allow private businesses to ban weapons on their
property and completely prohibit weapons in churches and schools.  I
am very concerned about potential restrictions on not only my ability
to exercise my right to self defense through the carrying of a
defensive weapon, but also the erosion of private property rights.

I believe that restricting the public places a person may legally
carried a concealed weapon will generally result in more, not less,
crime.  Consider that much crime involving guns is committed with
stolen weapons.  There is certainly much less chance of a weapon being
stolen while in the physical possession of the owner than from an
unattended vehicle; and those vehicles are exactly where guns will be
left if they cannot be carried into a given area.  Beyond that,
criminals will surely ignore "no-gun" zones just as they ignore the
laws against rape, robbery, and murder.  Individuals legally carrying
a firearms are no more likely to commit crimes in one building than in
another.

However, I do believe that private property owners do have the right
to restrict access to their property.  If a private property owner
does not want firearms on his property, he should be free to prohibit
them just as he might prohibit any individual for any other reason.
But, if we suggest that a public establishment may bar entrance to, or
otherwise discriminate against, anyone exercising their rights to
self-defense by legally being in possession of a firearm, it seems we
must also be willing to accept that same establishment may
discriminate against someone based on race, religion, or any other
reason.  I do not think the citizens of this State are prepared to do
that.  Private property owners must also be free to allow or encourage the
presense of firearms on their property.

Churches, in order to maintain true religious freedom, must have the
greatest possible discretion over their holdings.  Thus, if some
churches wish to prohibit firearms on some or all of their property,
they must be free to do so.  But other churches must remain free to
allow or even encourage the presense of firearms on their properties.
A legislative prohibition on weapons in churches would infringe on
churches' rights to use their property as they see fit.  It would also
leave what recent events in the South prove to be popular targets for
crime completely dependent on the state for defense--a defense the
state is not legally obligated to provide.

Schools are the great red-herring of this entire end-run around
self-defense rights.  Inasmuch as no one under 21 years of age may
obtain a permit to carry a weapon concealed in this State, it is
already illegal for students to have guns in school.  However,
teachers, administrators, parents, and other law-abiding adults who
may have business at public schools have as much right to self defense
while in transit to or from or actually at the school as they do
anywhere else in the State.  Adult students attending colleges and
universities have the same rights and may be particularly vulnerable to
crime because of the hours they must keep.

Further, if permit holders are not "specifically authorized to possess
firearms" then even leaving their firearm in a car on or near school
grounds may very well put them in violation of federal laws, forcing
them to leave the gun at home or to park excessive distances from
school grounds.  Both options leave law-abiding adults needlessly
unarmed and defenseless for prolonged periods.  Publicly owned
property should not be allowed to prohibit weapons unless facilities
for storing patrons guns are provided and substantive security is
maintained to ensure that criminals may not simply ignore the signs
and prey like wolves on so many sheep.

Finally, I believe it is important to protect the rights of
individuals.  Anyplace concealed weapon permits are invalid should be
required to be clearly posted at all entrances.  This will allow
holders of CCWs to remain informed and to decide ahead of time whether
or not to enter the posted property and to take whatever action is
necessary to remain within the bounds of the law.  Such posting should
be required regardless of whether such property is privately or
publicly owned.  Neither criminal nor civil penalties should be
allowed for an infraction anyplace not properly posted.

Thank you for your attention in these matters.  I would very much
appreciate your comments on this topic.

Sincerely


Charles Hardy

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

"With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but
 with tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will
 be certainly be lost." -- William Lloyd Garrison

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:43:41 -0600
Subject: school zone maps

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----

Last year in Arizona, someone took a large map and highlighted where
every school in the city was located.  This included pre-schools,
private schools, church schools, universities, university hospitals,
anything that be intreprted under the State definition of a school.
He then highlighted outward from every "school" boundry the maps scale
of 1000 feet.

This showed which areas in the city a person carry a concealed weapon
would be guilty of crime if they entered given the State's (current
and potential) definition of a school and the fed's 1000 ft gun free
zone.  Apparently it made quite a visual presentation for legislators
who were of the opinion that prohibiting weapons at schools didn't
really affect anyone.

Might be worth having at the next hearing on the topic of ccw permits.

Anyone know how to go about getting a list of all the licsensed
schools in SLC?

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

"It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from
 falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the
 government from falling into error." -- Justice Robert H. Jackson
- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

"It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from
 falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the
 government from falling into error." -- Justice Robert H. Jackson

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:18:15 -0600
Subject: Re: Letter to Legislators

On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, [e-mail] (Charles Hardy) wrote:
>
>Below is my first swipe at a letter to my legislators on the CCW
>changes swirling around the media.  It is a little over 700 words and
>I am concerned about the length.  I can't decide whether to send it as
>is, try to shorten it but hit all the same points (private property,
>businesses, churches, schools) or to break it into two shorter letters
>one dealing with perhaps churches and schools and one dealing with
>businesses and private property.  Suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>Charles Hardy

Charles,
    While your letter makes excellent points, it is WAY too long!
A general rule of thumb when writing to legislators is that the letter should
never be more than one typewritten page - and not single spaced!  (This is
true for letters to the editor of newspapers as well.)
    Also, it's important to be very clear as to what you want your
legislator to actually DO, what legislation you'd like to see enacted or
opposed.
    If you'd like me to edit this, let me know, but it may take me a
couple of days.  This is a busy week!
    Thanks again for your enthusiasm and support.

Best wishes,
Sarah

Sarah Thompson, M.D.            Dedicated to ALL Civil Liberties
The Righter                The Demo-Cans have betrayed us!
PO Box 271231                Vote Libertarian!
Salt Lake City, UT 84127-1231        Harry Browne for President
801-966-7278 - fax & voice mail
[e-mail]
Director for Women's Affairs, Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research
http://www.aros.net/~righter/welcome.html


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:14:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Letter to Legislators

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, [e-mail] posted:

>Charles,
>    While your letter makes excellent points, it is WAY too long!
>A general rule of thumb when writing to legislators is that the letter should
>never be more than one typewritten page - and not single spaced!  (This is
>true for letters to the editor of newspapers as well.)
>    Also, it's important to be very clear as to what you want your
>legislator to actually DO, what legislation you'd like to see enacted or
>opposed.
>    If you'd like me to edit this, let me know, but it may take me a
>couple of days.  This is a busy week!
>    Thanks again for your enthusiasm and support.
>
>Best wishes,
>Sarah

It seems even the brightest of individuals lose the ability to read
more than 100 words at a sitting as soon as they are elected to
office.  ;) I'm open to any and all suggestions as to the best way to
persuade my elected officials to vote for freedom.

I'm especially interested in what specific course of action to suggest
when there is no specific bill in question yet.  While I'm guessing
that most any bill modifying the CCW statute will be so full of
statist garbage that it should be oppossed, it's just that, a guess.

But as you can see from my letter, there are a few changes that I
think should be made wrt the rights of propety owners and the
responsibilities of property owners and government to clearly post and
of government to provide storage for weapons that cannont be carried
into an area.  (Totally truthfully, I think the permit system should
be scrapped and we should go to a Vermont style law.  But I know that
is way to radical to fly at this point.  Freedom can be scary.)  At
the suggestion of other list members, the letter has been broken into
two letters--one dealing with schools and other governmetn owned
property and the other dealing with churches and businesses.  At their
suggetion I have also added a bit to one letter dealing with
government assuming responsibility for my safety when they disarm me
and maing sure civil recourse is available.


Thanks.

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against
 arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now
 appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be
 always possible." -- Senator Hubert Humphrey

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:22:59 -0600
Subject: FOX to air story on Lott paper

FOX-13 news in Salt Lake City will be covering the presentation of the
Lott-Mustard paper (on the benefits of CCW) at the Cato Institute today.
Reporter Robin McLean will be interviewing Sarah Thompson, M.D. of DIPR about
the paper and its implications for CCW policy.  Be sure to watch, and also to
call and thank FOX and Ms. McLean for their willingness to cover this issue.

The paper itself can be found at: http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~llou/guncont.html
or in other formats and including tables at
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~llou/guns.html

Sarah Thompson, M.D.            Dedicated to ALL Civil Liberties
The Righter                The Demo-Cans have betrayed us!
PO Box 271231                Vote Libertarian!
Salt Lake City, UT 84127-1231        Harry Browne for President
801-966-7278 - fax & voice mail
[e-mail]
Director for Women's Affairs, Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research
http://www.aros.net/~righter/welcome.html


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chad Leigh)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:42:17 -0600
Subject: Action! Lott CCW stufi to the legislature, gov, and mayors

Hi All

I would like to organize an action to collect money and to use that money
to purchase nice official bound copies of the Chicago/Lott CCW study that
just came out and to present them to each Utah senator and legislator at
the State House as well as the governor and some of the mayors.

What do you all think?

regards
Chad



------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 03:39:41 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: LPU: Browne on KALL

Harry Browne, the Libertarian Party Presidential candidate will be on Kevin
Stanfield's program on KALL-910 AM from 5:30 to 6:00 PM on Wednesday, August
28th. Mark your calendar.
Tune in and call in.

Remember that Harry Browne is the ONLY presidential candidate who will guarantee
our Second Amendment rights, without restriction!  He's also got a lot of other
good ideas and is an engaging speaker.  This should be good!

Sarah

Sarah Thompson, M.D.            Dedicated to ALL Civil Liberties
The Righter                The Demo-Cans have betrayed us!
PO Box 271231                Vote Libertarian!
Salt Lake City, UT 84127-1231        Harry Browne for President
801-966-7278 - fax & voice mail
[e-mail]
Director for Women's Affairs, Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research
Director of Communications, Utah Libertarian Party
http://www.aros.net/~righter/welcome.html
PGP key available on request.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 17:16:58 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: CCW discussion on KTKK

Sarah Thompson, M.D. and attorney Elwood Powell will be appearing on the
Robyn Bowers show on KTKK (K-TALK) radio, 630 AM, from noon to 1 PM on
Monday, Aug. 19.  Our topic will be concealed carry permits.

Please listen, and please call in with support, comments, questions, etc.
The call-in numbers are 254-5855 (SLC), 670-5855 (Ogden) and 470-5855 (Provo).
We don't want to talk to ourselves!

If you like the show, please call KTKK or Robyn and thank them.  253-4883

Sarah

Sarah Thompson, M.D.            Dedicated to ALL Civil Liberties
The Righter                The Demo-Cans have betrayed us!
PO Box 271231                Vote Libertarian!
Salt Lake City, UT 84127-1231        Harry Browne for President
801-966-7278 - fax & voice mail
[e-mail]
Director for Women's Affairs, Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research
Communications Director, Utah Libertarian Party
http://www.aros.net/~righter/welcome.html
PGP key available on request.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:16:38 -0600
Subject: Re: CCW discussion on KTKK

On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, [e-mail] posted:

>Sarah Thompson, M.D. and attorney Elwood Powell will be appearing on the
>Robyn Bowers show on KTKK (K-TALK) radio, 630 AM, from noon to 1 PM on
>Monday, Aug. 19.  Our topic will be concealed carry permits.
>
>Please listen, and please call in with support, comments, questions, etc.
>The call-in numbers are 254-5855 (SLC), 670-5855 (Ogden) and 470-5855 (Provo).
>We don't want to talk to ourselves!
>
>If you like the show, please call KTKK or Robyn and thank them.  253-4883

I don't have a radio at work yet and so missed the show.  Anyone care
to summarize it for me?

Thanks.

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

Would YOU be willing to give up your favorite federal program if it
meant never paying another dime in federal income taxes?  Check out
<http://www.harrybrowne96.org> or call 800-682-1776.

"There is only one tactical principal which is not subject to change. It
 is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds,
 death, and destruction in the minimum amount of time." -- General George
 S. Patton

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:59:57 -0600
Subject: Off-topic: Banks

This is mostly off-topic but I figured someone here might have a good
suggestion.

I have been banking with First Interstate for 10 years but three
things have happened recently that suggest it is time for me to take
my business elsewhere.

1.  First Interstate decided that every customer holding an ATM card
would be issued a new ATM card which doubles as a debit card.  Since
this card may be used just like a credit card at certain businesses,
it now provides access to your funds without knowing the pin number.
There is no option to maintain an ATM without the Debit "feature".

2.  First Interstate declined to allow a legal defense fund account to
be opened in one of their Arizona branches for the accused members of
Team Viper (known in the media as Viper Militia).  It seems First
Interstate cares more for political correctness than assisting those
interested in justice help the accused receive decent representation.

And the straw that has broken the camel's back:

3.  I just noticed that First Interstate is now requiring a finger
print from all non First Interstate costomers to cash checks drawn on
First Interstate.  I frankly don't care to have my business associates
treated as common criminals.

So my question is, does anyone know of a good institution here in the
valley that:

1:  Does not fingerprint to cash checks.

2:  Has ATM cards without a Debit "feature".

3:  No or very low fee checking/savings.

4:  Convenient location.

It would also be nice if they had on-line banking services free or
inexpensive and even better if they were openly pro-gun rights.  I
suppose that is too much to hope for so I'll settle for one that is
neutral on the topic.

Thanks

- --

Charles C. Hardy  <[e-mail]> | If my employer has an opinion on
                                  | these topics, I'm sure I'm not
                                  | the one he would have express it.

Would YOU be willing to give up your favorite federal program if it
meant never paying another dime in federal income taxes?  Check out
<http://www.harrybrowne96.org> or call 800-682-1776.

"It is in vain, Sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace,
 Peace! -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next
 gale that sweeps from the North will bring to our ears the clash of
 resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we
 here idle? What is it that Gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life
 so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains
 and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may
 take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry
 (1736-1799) in his famous "The War Inevitable" speech, March, 1775

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:38:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: LPU: Browne Wins "Election"

Whether or not you support Harry Browne's campaign, he DOES deserve to be heard
in the debates.  Please sign the petition and pass it on!

Thanks!
Sarah


Harry Brown, Libertarian Party Candidate, * wins * CNN TIME/Warner
internet Virtual Pesidential Election (you may have heard this
already but here are the exact final vote tolls):

 CNN TIME Virtual Election Results (total votes: 16553)
 one vote per person

 Candidate   Votes  Percentage

 Harry Browne  5004   30.23 %
 Bob Dole      3952   23.87 %
 Bill Clinton  3029   18.30 %
 Pat Buchanan  1375    8.31 %
 Ross Perot     470    2.84 %


See for yourself:

http://pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/GDML/report/AllPolitics?AllPolitics/virtualele
ctionresults.html

CNN Time is supposedly going to host a presidential debate.
Harry Brown will not be invited. Hell, winning isn't everything,
it's certainly not grounds for receiving any attention.

It stands to reason that the most intelligent people are those
that have staked a claim on the computer internet. It therefore
follows that the intelligent presidential choice is Harry Browne.

What to do next (from Hugh Butler)

There's an on-line petitioning drive to get Harry Browne into the debates. If
you go to http://www.twr.com/stbo  you'll find a place to sign, and get other
info concerning the drive. If you're interested, please do so, and pass the
message along to anyone else you feel may wish to help. Thanks!


Sarah Thompson, M.D.            Dedicated to ALL Civil Liberties
The Righter                The Demo-Cans have betrayed us!
PO Box 271231                Vote Libertarian!
Salt Lake City, UT 84127-1231        Harry Browne for President
801-966-7278 - fax & voice mail
[e-mail]
Director for Women's Affairs, Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research
Communications Director, Utah Libertarian Party
http://www.aros.net/~righter/welcome.html
PGP key available on request.

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms Digest V2 #3
*********************************

To subscribe to utah-firearms Digest, send the command:

    subscribe utah-firearms-digest

in the body of a message to "[e-mail]".  If you want to
subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such
as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-utah-firearms":

    subscribe utah-firearms-digest [e-mail]

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "utah-firearms-digest"
in the commands above with "utah-firearms".

Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/utah-firearms/archive.  These are organized by date.