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Internet Message Format | 2002-11-21 | 23KB

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gun control's twisted outcome
Date: 01 Nov 2002 12:27:08 -0700

Gun control's twisted outcome
 ----------
 Reason
 by Joyce Lee Malcolm
     "Restricting firearms has helped make England more
     crime-ridden than the U.S." (11/02)
 http://www.free-market.net/rd/402559309.html

Columbia feels heat from gun groups over Bancroft Prize
----------
Washington Times
    Gun-rights groups are calling for Columbia University to
    rescind the Bancroft Prize it gave to a historian after
    an investigation by Emory University found he "willingly
    misrepresented the evidence" in his work. (10/30/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/814328404.html

Bellesiles: The larger context
----------
LewRockwell.com
by Llewellyn H. Rockwell
    "People ask if there is any reason for libertarians to be
    confident. If you understand the sociology of ideas, it is easy
    to see that the statist project is running out of intellectual
    steam. It survives mainly due to the momentum it gathered during
    and after World War II. But it has no new source of strength ...
    and without intellectual life and vibrancy, it is profoundly
    vulnerable." (10/29/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/484971863.html

The sniper and the keystone cops
----------
LewRockwell.com
by William L. Anderson
    "If anything, the bumbling of the police in this whole
    sorry episode proves that individuals must be able to
    protect themselves -- precisely because the police will
    not and cannot protect us. Let us begin with the
    killings and how this puzzle was solved." (10/28/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/563771159.html

Do we need warning labels for lies in the libraries?
----------
Liberty For All
by Linda Gorman
    "In September 2000, publishing house Alfred A. Knopf handed
    professional librarians a knotty problem. It published
    'Arming America,' a book in which Emory University
    professor Michael Bellesiles outlined research
    supposedly showing that guns were rare in America from
    the Colonial period to the Civil War. ... As it turns
    out, 'Arming America' is a lie." (10/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/573331944.html

Democrats back off from gun control
----------
USA Today
    Those counting on the Democratic Party to aggressively
    promote authoritarian gun-control measures may be
    disappointed. Increasingly, Democratic candidates are
    advertising their pro-gun views. (10/28/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/75302792.html [obnoxious popup]

Anti-gun professor found to have misrepresented data
----------
Emory University News
    Michael Bellesiles, who was investigated for misuse of
    sources in his book "Arming America: The Origins of a
    National Gun Culture," in which he tried to show that
    the core historical argument behind the Second Amendment
    was a fraud, has resigned from his position as Professor
    of history at Emory University. (10/25/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/515191191.html

Australia considers new gun restrictions
----------
News.com.au
    A shooting at a university has giver Australia's Democrats
    and Greens an excuse to call for a ban on semi-automatic
    handguns. The crime rate has climbed since the last
    round of gun restrictions. (10/22/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/925820140.html [Looks horrid on NS 4.7]

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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bipartisans on Right to Self-Defense
Date: 02 Nov 2002 18:47:23 -0700

"If someone is so fearful that, that they're going to start
using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me
very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!"
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) On MSNBC

"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come." - Sen. Joe Biden,
D-Del/ Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution
inhibit the government's ability to govern the people,
we should look to limit those guarantees."
- President Bill Clinton, August 12, 1993

The most effective means of fighting crime in the United
States is to outlaw the possession of any type of firearm
by the civilian populace." - Janet Reno, addressing a 1991
B'nai B'rith gathering in Ft. Lauderdale

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a
step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
-U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, December 1993

Senator Dianne Feinstein, February 5, 1995, CBS's 60 Minutes:
"If I could have gotten another 51 votes in the Senate
for an outright ban, picking up everyone of them, Mr. and
Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done that.
But I could not do that; the votes were not there."

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans
to feel safe." - U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, quoted by
the Associated Press, November 18, 1993

My bill ... establishes a 6-month grace period for the
turning in of all handguns." - U.S. Representative Major
Owens, Congressional Record, 11/10/93

Twenty years ago, I asked Richard Nixon what he thought
of gun control. His on-the-record reply: 'Guns are an
abomination.' Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation
at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and
requiring licenses for hunting rifles. - William Safire
(originally from a New York Times column), Los Angeles
Daily News, June 15, 1999, P. 15.

PATRICK KENNEDY (U.S. Congressman, R.I.) "Kennedy said
he favors an outright ban on handguns, but doubts its
palatability in the current political climate." (Providence
Journal, 4 Jan 99)

Sen. John Chafee: "I believe all handguns should be
abolished" The Associated Press, January 9, 1997

Rep. Charles Schumer: "We're going to hammer guns on the
anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We're going to beat
guns into submission!" Press Conference, December 8, 1993

"We're here to tell the NRA their nightmare is true..."
- U.S. Representative Charles Schumer, quoted on NBC,
November 30, 1993

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From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc <[e-mail]>
Subject: Canadian guy needs our help
Date: 04 Nov 2002 22:10:13 -0700

Hi All

The following article, of which I have given the first bit and a link,
tells a lot about the stupidity of the US government.  Call your
Congressman and the President (I sent the pres an email, for all that
will do -- [e-mail] ) on behalf of this guy.  This is a
joke.

"
  BANGOR, Maine (Reuters) - A Canadian woodcutter arrested during a
routine trip across the U.S. border to buy gasoline has become the
victim of intensified security in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, his
lawyer said on Friday.

Michel Jalbert drove from his hometown of Pohenegamook, Quebec to
Estcourt Station, Maine to fill up on cheap American gas before a
hunting trip. As he was leaving the station, U.S. border patrol agents
arrested him for illegally entering the country with a firearm.

.
.
.
"

The article goes on to say how the gas station seems to be in the
no-man's land after entering US soil but before you actually get to the
INS and Customs gates and stuff.   So Canadians routinely drive there,
fill up, and return to Canada without even going through the official
entrances.  US Officials have long looked the other way on this.

Complete article can be found at
<http://www.reuters.com/
news_article.jhtml?type=humannews&StoryID=1674738>

Chad


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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Better documentation of the FBI gun owner harassment during the sniper
Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:51:50 -0700

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200211\CUL20021105a.html

FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
November 05, 2002

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Prior to the capture of "Beltway
Sniper" suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo, an
unconfirmed number of Maryland gun owners received surprise
visits from the FBI as part of the investigation. One such
gun owner had a surprise of his own for the agents when they
arrived at his home.

Jeff Brown of Gaithersburg, Md., was "a little nervous" when
he heard the voicemail message from an FBI agent on the sniper
task force who wanted to "visit" Brown at his home to check a
.223 caliber semi-automatic rifle Brown purchased in 1993.
Adding to that apprehension was the fact that Brown owns and
drives a full-sized white panel van, the type of vehicle
investigators believed the sniper was driving.

"I expected, actually, to be pulled over and spread-eagle on
the street at some point", Brown told CNSNews.com Monday.
"When he called, I knew their database had had a double hit.
A white van and a .223 rifle? I knew they were coming."

In a subsequent telephone conversation, Metzger reportedly
told Brown that agents merely wanted to verify the serial
number of the rifle and confirm that it was, in fact, still
physically in Brown's possession. The two scheduled an
appointment to accomplish those goals.

But Brown later learned that the agents had tried at least
once to make an unannounced visit, and only called because
they were unable to catch him at home.

"Once I told some of my friends in the pro-gun community what
was happening, they began to relate some stories to me about
guys having their guns confiscated, for so-called 'ballistic
fingerprinting', and not getting their guns back", Brown
explained. "I became alarmed."

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said
the attitude of the federal agents comes as a result of "years
of accepting gun control as somehow useful for solving crimes."

"The [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] went to the
stores and got the lists of gun owners that had something that
could fire a .223. But, it didn't solve the crime", Pratt noted.
"The only reason we find that gun registration is 'useful' is
for confiscation."

FBI Agents 'Were Not Happy'

Brown's apprehension prompted him to contact an attorney, who
instructed him on preparing for the visit. So, when FBI Special
Agent Greg Metzger and his partner arrived at Brown's home for
their scheduled meeting, they were greeted by Brown and his wife,
Mary, along with reporters and photographers from various media
outlets.

As Brown described the situation, the agents were "a little
bit miffed."

"They were not happy", he observed. "They just were not
interested in being around any cameras."

The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from
the television crew, to talk.

"Can we, uh ... come here", one of the agents said to Brown.
Obliging, Brown stepped away from the door to speak with the
agents, but still within view of the camera.

Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special
Agent Metzger. But when one of the agents realized Brown was
wearing a wireless microphone, he stopped the conversation
short.

"Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached
toward the microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed
away and continued talking, but the agent interrupted him
again.

"Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the
apparatus off that you have on? I'd like to speak to you
privately."

Brown complied, but only after summoning his wife to serve
as a witness to the conversation with the agents. Out of the
camera's view, and believing they could not be heard, the
agents challenged Brown about the presence of the media.

"They were belligerent, at that point, with me. They weren't
threatening me or pushing me around or touching me or anything
like that, but their mannerisms and attitude quickly became
offended and belligerent", Brown recalled. "I was thinking to
myself, 'See, this is what I was afraid would happen if you
guys came into my house, especially if I was alone.'" [sic]

'Don't You Know People Are Dying?'

Parts of the conversation picked up by the camera's long-range
microphone confirm Brown's account of what happened next.

"Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were
going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't
you trust us?" one agent asked.

Brown said it was not so much the words the agents used, as
their attitude and body language that made him uncomfortable.

"There was some lecturing about it", he said recalling one
comment that did unnerve him.

"One thing they said was, 'Don't you know people are dying and
we're just trying to do our job?'" Brown recalled, "Of course,
the inference was that I didn't care that there were people
dying and I was trying to interfere with them doing their job."

During that conversation, the agents reportedly admitted that
they had seized other rifles, allegedly with permission, to
compare them to the ballistic evidence gathered from the crime
scenes.

"They said, from some people, they do 'request' to take the gun
with them and do 'ballistic fingerprinting', as they call it",
Brown recalled. "I just did not want to have my gun disappear."

Pratt believes the agents "developed an attitude", because Brown
challenged their attempts to violate his constitutional rights.

"The FBI is trying to put this guy on a guilt trip because he's
'not cooperating' with the system but it's a totally useless
system", Pratt argued. "They just assume that gun owners [are]
all a bunch of suspects just for being gun owners and they
should behave accordingly."

'They Were Doing It On Purpose'

At the request of Special Agent Metzger, Brown instructed the
media to stay outside his home, where they could see what was
happening through a plate glass window. Brown had the unloaded
weapon displayed in plain sight for the inspection.

The agents followed Brown and his wife inside and confirmed the
serial number on the rifle as they had said they wanted to do.
But that was not the end of the encounter.

"After they checked, they started [questioning Brown again],
and that's when my wife stepped in and told them to leave",
Brown said, noting that his wife formerly worked in law
enforcement.

Mary Brown believed the agents were attempting to agitate her
husband, hoping he would say or do something to justify their
confiscation of his rifle.

"I could tell that they were doing it on purpose and I didn't
like what they were doing to you", she told her husband. "So,
I decided to just jump right in."

The agents left the couple's property, as they were ordered to do.

Jeff Brown does not believe the agents' reaction to the
presence of the media, or their "brow-beating" tactics were
justified.

"I'm not here to make them feel happy. I have to make sure
my rights are not violated. I wanted to help, but this is not
Nazi Germany", he explained. "I looked [Metzger] right in the
eye and said ... 'I don't care whether you're upset about
being ambushed by the media. I felt I needed some witnesses
here with me.'"

Brown, a member of the National Rifle Association and former
candidate for public office in Maryland, was also upset by
what he perceived as a lack of honesty on the part of the FBI.

"[Metzger] wasn't upfront with me, and I didn't have any guilty
feelings about [contacting the media]", Brown said. "They
weren't truthful with me. They didn't tell me all the truth.
They only told me the part they wanted [me] to hear."

A Message to Gun Owners?

Debbie Weierman, a spokeswoman for the FBI, said the bureau
would not respond to any questions about the encounter,
because the probe into the multiple murders was still in
progress.

"We're not going to be able to get into any kind of a dialogue
with you regarding any aspect of our investigation", she said.

Pratt believes the response of the agents to the presence of
the media shows that their main focus was not on finding the
"Beltway Sniper", but rather on sending a message to gun owners.

"They know it's not about crime control because, if they were
really interested in finding the perpetrator they would have
kept moving. Obviously this guy wasn't the guy", Pratt concluded.
"What it's really all about is showing that the feds are in
control in a very totalitarian sense of the word."
---

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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: If UofU wins gun lawsuit, USU may follow suit with campus gun ban
Date: 08 Nov 2002 20:09:10 -0700


The following is from the latest USU online newspaper.  While USU does
not yet have a campus wide gun ban, it does enforce an illegal ban on
adult students possessing legal weapons in their place of residence if
that place of residence happens to be a university dorm room.

Charles

==================================

USU ban on guns possible, pending U of U suit
By Roy Burton


Media Credit: Photo illustration by John Zsiray



After a recent rampage at the University of Arizona, where a nursing
student shot three professors before killing himself, the debate on
whether universities should be allowed to ban guns has become a national
issue.

In Utah, guns have been a hot topic for much longer.

The University of Utah is at the center of the debate, having filed a
lawsuit against Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff to defend its right
to ban guns on campus. Utah is the only state that does not ban guns at
state institutions, according to a Nov. 3 article in the Deseret News.

Utah State University does not prohibit students or faculty from carrying
guns on campus legally, but students who want to live in dorms must agree
to a no-gun clause in their contracts.

Craig Simper, legal counsel for the university, said while USU does not
restrict people with concealed weapons permits from carrying guns on
campus, it does support the University of Utah's lawsuit.

He said the issue is not about guns, but about the university's right to
provide academic freedom to its faculty and students. The First Amendment
guarantees the right of universities to make rules and regulations
regarding their campuses, Simper said.

"We believe that it's the university's constitutional right of academic
freedom," he said.

Simper said he has spoken extensively with President Kermit L. Hall on
the matter. Hall fully supports the University of Utah's policy to ban
guns, he said.

USU filed a brief in the lawsuit, supporting the U of U's position. If
the judge rules in favor of the University of Utah, Simper said, there
will be discussion about implementing a similar policy for the Aggies.
While he doesn't know what results of the discussion would be, he said
"it's quite possible" a no-gun rule would be put in place.

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said in the Deseret News article he
is simply trying to enforce state law, which says only the Legislature
has authority to enact gun-control legislation. State institutions like
the University of Utah do not have such authority, he said.

U of U law students argued recently in letters to the editor of the Utah
Daily Chronicle, the student newspaper, that banning guns did not deter
incidents like the shootings at the University of Arizona.

David Sundwall wrote, "As economist John Lott argued here at our law
school a few weeks ago, allowing law-abiding citizens to arm and defend
themselves is the best way to decrease crime. Just the mere prospect that
someone else in that classroom might have been armed could have been
enough to deter the killer from even attempting to kill or at least stop
him from further killings."

Arnold Astorga, another law student wrote, "If criminals are going to
carry guns in defiance of the law and school policy, then the only ones
affected are law-abiding students who are denied their most effective
means of self defense."

In order to receive a concealed weapons permit, a person must pay a $59
fee, submit two letters of reference, have fingerprints taken, undergo a
background check, send two photos and a copy of a driver's license, and
pass a weapons familiarity certification course.

Holly Smith, a USU junior majoring in Spanish, said there are a lot of
women on campus who are afraid of rape, and they should have the right to
carry a weapon for defending themselves.

"If you ban guns, the people who aren't allowed to have them are probably
going to have them anyway, and the people who are honest and responsible
about it won't have them and won't be able to protect themselves," she
said.

Matt Sinfield, a junior majoring in welding engineering, said the
university should be able to ban guns on campus.

"I don't think guns have a place in school," he said.

Carrie Delgado, a senior majoring in both elementary education and
Spanish, said it depends on the mental condition of the person carrying
the gun, but sane people should be allowed to carry concealed weapons if
they have permits.

ù[e-mail]
----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: OFF-TOPIC: I'm back to work
Date: 13 Nov 2002 20:47:28 -0700

I just wanted to drop a quick note to all me e-friends and let you know
that I am no longer un-employed.  I have re-joined the ranks of taxpayers
by accepting a hardware design position at L3 Communications here in SLC.

Thank you to all those who offered assistance, advice, contacts, kind
words, your prayers, or other assistance.  My family and I have been
truly blessed in what could have been a most difficult season.

On another personal front, my wife and new baby son are doing well and
life is now starting to get back to as normal as life ever is with a
family.  :)

Thank you again.

----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com

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From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC: I'm back to work
Date: 14 Nov 2002 08:32:40 -0700

Congratulations on the job and family!

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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Introductory video clip available for 'Innocents Betrayed'
Date: 22 Nov 2002 12:39:48 -0700

Introductory video clip available for 'Innocents Betrayed'
----------
JPFO
    The introductory segment of the JPFO documentary film,
    "Innocents Betrayed," is now online for viewing. This
    segment is offered as proof that the project is well
    under way. All it needs now is your support! (11/16/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/28910113.html

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