ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / utah-astronomy / archive / v01.n038 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 2001-04-05 | 41KB

From: owner-utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-astronomy-digest) To: utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-astronomy-digest V1 #38 Reply-To: utah-astronomy-digest Sender: owner-utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-astronomy-digest Friday, April 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 038 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> Subject: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets & Drake equation Chris, I can't cite the reference right now, but I recall reading in the last few years that all the variables had beed revised downward. A lot of it had to do with expected lifetimes of civilizations; there could well be thousands of technically advanced cultures born of a typical galaxy, but time scales are long, and, using earthly species as a model (all we've got at present) most life forms don't hang around for very long. The gist was that the sentient beings wouldn't exist at the same time. Look at humanity, for example. We've only been around for a few tens of thousands of years; you could possibly extend that to a million or two if you generously extended the title of "humanity" to our short, hairy ancestors from Olduvai Gorge and similar places. We've only had a good grip on industrial technology for a century, maybe two, and already the result is mass extinction on a scale normally reserved for asteroid impacts and massive volcanism. Obviously (obvious to all except those making money from it) this is unsustainable, and who knows the end result? It could be only a matter of decades before the entire eco-system collapses, 99% of life dies off, and the evolutionary race begins anew. If this happens, it's solid proof that humanity is an evolutionary dead-end. Something else will fill our niche, and perhaps do a better job of stewardship. So, only a few hundred years as "top of the heap" doesn't give us much time to find others among the stars, does it? The Drake Equation can be used as a speculative tool, likewise it can be manipulated to help secure grant money for underemployed scientists. Such is the case when EVERY factor in the equation is an unknown variable! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:26:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> Subject: (utah-astronomy) Redwood Mutli-Purpose center Not a bad place, really. Close to my home, personally, it would probably mean that I could attend meetings more often (I avoid downtown SLC like the plague it has become). Kids with basketballs roam the halls, but maybe a little exposure to something more cerebral than popular culture will do them some good. There is also a large grassy outdoor area, meetings could then incorporate suburban observing sessions with room to set up scopes and equipment. This would be a great addition to club meetings. Small children can be kept occupied on the playground if mom and dad's telescopes don't cut the mustard. ("DAD, is it time to GO yet?) The drive would be shorter for about all club members except those on the east side of Salt Lake, and parking is plentiful, and free! Tooele county commuters would save a lot of gas and time. But the really important question is: What's the closest restaraunt for "advanced training"? I vote in favor of trying the place out. I used to attend meetings of the Sci-Fi club there, in the '70's. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:33:51 -0600 From: "Wayne Sumner" <SUMNER@iomega.com> Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. - --=_762D8C19.4B2AA1EE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich and Chris, It's been a long time since I've felt compelled to respond to = discussions on the internet, but I'd like to make the brief point that = more and more mainstream scientists are concluding that mankind is NOT the = major factor in influencing our planet's climate. And of great interest = to we amateur astronomers are statements by the likes of Salllie Baliunas, = deputy director of the Mount Wilson Institute for the Harvard-Smithsonian = Center for Astrophysics who studies the sun and nearby sun-like stars, = that "...our climate models do not handle variations in the sun's output = very well, nor do we understand the mechanism of change in the sun very = well." She believes that most of what we call global warming can be = attributed to changes in the sun! Dr. James Hanson, who testified before a congressional committee in = 1988: "It is time to stop waffling...the greenhouse effect is here.", is = now saying that ..."warming over the past century is not mostly driven by = ...burning fossil fuels..." He strongly opposes the signing of the Kyoto = accords because they are based on obsolete, politically correct science. A graph popularized by well-know cartoonist, Trever, shows Sargasso = Sea temperature variations over the last 6,000 years, and shows how modern = climate alarmists are basing their gloomy predictions on data from the = past 100 to 200 years. In fact, we are still below the 6,000 year average = temperature, and are recovering from what is usually called "The Little = Ice Age" of the late 1600's, which, strangely enough, coincided with a = dearth of sunspots called the Maunder Minimum. This graph is based on = real scientific data first published in 1996 in Science vol 274 pp 1504 - = 1508, and it clearly shows that our climate varies widely from natural = causes that we are only beginning to understand. When I was in high school (mid 60's) scientists were all talking = about the coming ice age. Now we're being warned about melting ice caps = and rising ocean levels. Given the low level of real scientific understand= ing of the general population, we who love science and try to stay well = informed about it need to exercise great caution in not repeating the = shiboleths of political leaders or alarmists who would use science as a = tool to manipulate the masses. In short, my reading of current reasearch is that while there is = widespread agreement among mainstream scientists about rising levels of = CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" in our earth's atmosphere, there is not = agreement on the causes of these increases or on whether or not this is = causing changes in our average temperatures. I love science because the search for real knowledge as well as the = knowledge itself is fascinating. Thanks for letting me air my thoughts this morning. -Wayne Sumner >>> chris@therussells.net 04/05/01 09:28PM >>> Admittedly, it's not something I follow closely, but every time I see the "Drake Equation" referenced, whether on TV or in print, it seems it's to support the idea that there's thousands of species of intelligent life out there. Has there been a major revision of these numbers that I haven't noticed? If so, do you know what the new numbers are? Well, I had several paragraphs here pontificating on the environment, but = in the end, I decided that my hypothosis wasn't sound, so I deleted them. I will say that I've just finished reading a very interesting book on the "Weather Problem" (notice I didn't say global warming) and it's only clear that the weather is changing (Most likely due to human influences. It = seems the only ones still not believing this are the industry lobbyists.), but = not what the final impact may be. Though global warming is the most likely outcome, there's also a chance that we could snap into another ice age or just have wacky harsh weather for the next few hundered years! Just = thought I'd ad that to make up for the paragaraphs I deleted... :) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets > It must be remembered that the so-called "life zone" > really applies to life as we know it. That is, > carbon-based, water chemistry. > > Currently, the variables favored for the famous "Drake > Equation" don't bode well for abundant life in any > particular galaxy. It may well be that there are only > one or two technologically advanced civilizations > alive at any given time in the same galaxy. Simple > life-forms could be more abundant, but that's not as > exciting as the possibility of communication with > beings as advanced or more so than we are. (THAT's > pretty presumptive and pompous, really; we may not be > advanced at all relatively speaking. We humans have a > fairly bloated self-image. From what I see on the > evening news, I'm not impressed, on the whole.) > > This means that the possibilty of a "Star-Trek"-like > future is close to nil. We could be alone in the > Milky Way right now. By the time the next > civilization evolves, we will probably be long > extinct. > > But, extrapolate to the universe as a whole: Even > with only one advanced civilization per galaxy, the > universe is teeming with life! There are a LOT of > galaxies out there! > > To me, the search for habitable planets should be with > an eye towards eventual colonization, rather than > holding out hope for Romulans or exo-bacteria, or > something in-between. If we are to survive far into > the distant future, as humans or our evolutionary > descendants, then it is mandatory that we leave the > Earth eventually. One day it will not be habitable, > either due to solar evolution, or our lousy > stewardship. We treat our planet like a mentally-ill > person living in a filthy apartment with 100 cats. > And I'll stand by that analogy. We are the only > species that purposely damage our environment, to me > that's a sure sign of mental illness. Go ahead and > classify unbridled greed as mental illness. > > OK, lunch is over, I'll put away the soapbox. > > Chuck > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > - > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.co= m" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - --=_762D8C19.4B2AA1EE Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type= > <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: = 2px"> <DIV>Rich and Chris,</DIV> <DIV> It's been a long time since = I've felt=20 compelled to respond to discussions on the internet, but I'd like to make = the=20 brief point that more and more mainstream scientists are concluding that = mankind=20 is NOT the major factor in influencing our planet's climate. And of = great=20 interest to we amateur astronomers are statements by the likes of = Salllie=20 Baliunas, deputy director of the Mount Wilson Institute for the=20 Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics who studies the sun and = nearby=20 sun-like stars, that "...our climate models do not handle variations in = the=20 sun's output very well, nor do we understand the mechanism of change in = the sun=20 very well." She believes that most of what we call global warming = can be=20 attributed to changes in the sun!</DIV> <DIV> Dr. James Hanson, who = testified=20 before a congressional committee in 1988: "It is time to stop waffling...th= e=20 greenhouse effect is here.", is now saying that ..."warming over the = past=20 century is not mostly driven by ...burning fossil fuels..." = He=20 strongly opposes the signing of the Kyoto accords because they are based = on=20 obsolete, politically correct science.</DIV> <DIV> A graph popularized by = well-know=20 cartoonist, Trever, shows Sargasso Sea temperature variations over the = last=20 6,000 years, and shows how modern climate alarmists are basing their = gloomy=20 predictions on data from the past 100 to 200 years. In fact, we are = still=20 below the 6,000 year average temperature, and are recovering from what = is=20 usually called "The Little Ice Age" of the late 1600's, which, strangely = enough,=20 coincided with a dearth of sunspots called the Maunder Minimum. This = graph=20 is based on real scientific data first published in 1996 in Science = vol=20 274 pp 1504 - 1508, and it clearly shows that our climate varies widely = from=20 natural causes that we are only beginning to understand.</DIV> <DIV> When I was in high school = (mid 60's)=20 scientists were all talking about the coming ice age. Now we're = being=20 warned about melting ice caps and rising ocean levels. Given the low = level=20 of real scientific understanding of the general population, we who love = science=20 and try to stay well informed about it need to exercise great caution in = not=20 repeating the shiboleths of political leaders or alarmists who would use = science=20 as a tool to manipulate the masses.</DIV> <DIV> In short, my reading of = current=20 reasearch is that while there is widespread agreement among mainstream=20 scientists about rising levels of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" in = our=20 earth's atmosphere, there is not agreement on the causes of these = increases or=20 on whether or not this is causing changes in our average=20 temperatures.</DIV> <DIV> I love science because the = search for=20 real knowledge as well as the knowledge itself is fascinating.</DIV>= <DIV> Thanks for letting me = air my=20 thoughts this morning. -Wayne Sumner</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> >>> chris@therussells.net 04/05/01 09:28PM=20 >>> Admittedly, it's not something I follow closely, but every = time=20 I see the "Drake Equation" referenced, whether on TV or in print, it = seems=20 it's to support the idea that there's thousands of species of intelligen= t=20 life out there. Has there been a major revision of these numbers = that I=20 haven't noticed? If so, do you know what the new numbers=20 are? Well, I had several paragraphs here pontificating on the=20 environment, but in the end, I decided that my hypothosis wasn't sound, = so I=20 deleted them. I will say that I've just finished reading a = very=20 interesting book on the "Weather Problem" (notice I didn't say = global=20 warming) and it's only clear that the weather is changing (Most likely = due to=20 human influences. It seems the only ones still not believing this = are=20 the industry lobbyists.), but not what the final impact may be. = Though=20 global warming is the most likely outcome, there's also a chance that = we=20 could snap into another ice age or just have wacky harsh weather for = the next=20 few hundered years! Just thought I'd ad that to make up for = the=20 paragaraphs I deleted... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: = "Chuck=20 Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To:=20 <utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, = 2001=20 12:44 PM Subject: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets > It must = be=20 remembered that the so-called "life zone" > really applies to life = as we=20 know it. That is, > carbon-based, water chemistry. > &= gt;=20 Currently, the variables favored for the famous "Drake > Equation" = don't=20 bode well for abundant life in any > particular galaxy. It may = well=20 be that there are only > one or two technologically advanced=20 civilizations > alive at any given time in the same galaxy. =20 Simple > life-forms could be more abundant, but that's not as >= =20 exciting as the possibility of communication with > beings as = advanced or=20 more so than we are. (THAT's > pretty presumptive and = pompous,=20 really; we may not be > advanced at all relatively speaking. = We=20 humans have a > fairly bloated self-image. From what I see = on=20 the > evening news, I'm not impressed, on the whole.) > >= This=20 means that the possibilty of a "Star-Trek"-like > future is close = to=20 nil. We could be alone in the > Milky Way right now. By = the=20 time the next > civilization evolves, we will probably be long >= ;=20 extinct. > > But, extrapolate to the universe as a whole: = =20 Even > with only one advanced civilization per galaxy, the >=20= universe is teeming with life! There are a LOT of > galaxies = out=20 there! > > To me, the search for habitable planets should = be=20 with > an eye towards eventual colonization, rather than > = holding=20 out hope for Romulans or exo-bacteria, or > something in-between.&nbs= p; If=20 we are to survive far into > the distant future, as humans or our=20 evolutionary > descendants, then it is mandatory that we leave = the >=20 Earth eventually. One day it will not be habitable, > either = due to=20 solar evolution, or our lousy > stewardship. We treat our = planet=20 like a mentally-ill > person living in a filthy apartment with = 100=20 cats. > And I'll stand by that analogy. We are the only >= =20 species that purposely damage our environment, to me > that's a sure = sign=20 of mental illness. Go ahead and > classify unbridled greed as = mental=20 illness. > > OK, lunch is over, I'll put away the=20 soapbox. > > Chuck > > >=20 __________________________________________________ > Do You=20 Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > = <A=20 href=3D"http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A= > > >=20 - - > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email=20 to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astrono= my"=20 in the body of the message. > For information on digests or=20 retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same=20 address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To = unsubscribe=20 from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with=20 "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information= on=20 digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same=20 address. Do not use quotes in your message. </DIV></BODY></HTML> - --=_762D8C19.4B2AA1EE-- - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets Wayne, the point is not neccesarily centered on climatic change in itself(which we all know DOES have natural causes as well as man-made), but mass extinction of species and the resulting loss of bio-diversity specifically. This can be caused by factors such as water,air, and soil pollution, urban sprawl, intensive farming, deforestation; these can be taken in their own context. All have their own, specific effects on bio-diversity, and should not be confused with global warming and the greenhouse effect, which is only one piece of the puzzle. Chuck - --- Wayne Sumner <SUMNER@iomega.com> wrote: > Rich and Chris, > It's been a long time since I've felt compelled > to respond to discussions on the internet, but I'd > like to make the brief point that more and more > mainstream scientists are concluding that mankind is > NOT the major factor in influencing our planet's > climate. And of great interest to we amateur > astronomers are statements by the likes of Salllie > Baliunas, deputy director of the Mount Wilson > Institute for the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for > Astrophysics who studies the sun and nearby sun-like > stars, that "...our climate models do not handle > variations in the sun's output very well, nor do we > understand the mechanism of change in the sun very > well." She believes that most of what we call > global warming can be attributed to changes in the > sun! > Dr. James Hanson, who testified before a > congressional committee in 1988: "It is time to stop > waffling...the greenhouse effect is here.", is now > saying that ..."warming over the past century is not > mostly driven by ...burning fossil fuels..." He > strongly opposes the signing of the Kyoto accords > because they are based on obsolete, politically > correct science. > A graph popularized by well-know cartoonist, > Trever, shows Sargasso Sea temperature variations > over the last 6,000 years, and shows how modern > climate alarmists are basing their gloomy > predictions on data from the past 100 to 200 years. > In fact, we are still below the 6,000 year average > temperature, and are recovering from what is usually > called "The Little Ice Age" of the late 1600's, > which, strangely enough, coincided with a dearth of > sunspots called the Maunder Minimum. This graph is > based on real scientific data first published in > 1996 in Science vol 274 pp 1504 - 1508, and it > clearly shows that our climate varies widely from > natural causes that we are only beginning to > understand. > When I was in high school (mid 60's) scientists > were all talking about the coming ice age. Now > we're being warned about melting ice caps and rising > ocean levels. Given the low level of real > scientific understanding of the general population, > we who love science and try to stay well informed > about it need to exercise great caution in not > repeating the shiboleths of political leaders or > alarmists who would use science as a tool to > manipulate the masses. > In short, my reading of current reasearch is > that while there is widespread agreement among > mainstream scientists about rising levels of CO2 and > other "greenhouse gases" in our earth's atmosphere, > there is not agreement on the causes of these > increases or on whether or not this is causing > changes in our average temperatures. > I love science because the search for real > knowledge as well as the knowledge itself is > fascinating. > Thanks for letting me air my thoughts this > morning. -Wayne Sumner > > > >>> chris@therussells.net 04/05/01 09:28PM >>> > Admittedly, it's not something I follow closely, but > every time I see the > "Drake Equation" referenced, whether on TV or in > print, it seems it's to > support the idea that there's thousands of species > of intelligent life out > there. Has there been a major revision of these > numbers that I haven't > noticed? If so, do you know what the new numbers > are? > > Well, I had several paragraphs here pontificating on > the environment, but in > the end, I decided that my hypothosis wasn't sound, > so I deleted them. I > will say that I've just finished reading a very > interesting book on the > "Weather Problem" (notice I didn't say global > warming) and it's only clear > that the weather is changing (Most likely due to > human influences. It seems > the only ones still not believing this are the > industry lobbyists.), but not > what the final impact may be. Though global warming > is the most likely > outcome, there's also a chance that we could snap > into another ice age or > just have wacky harsh weather for the next few > hundered years! Just thought > I'd ad that to make up for the paragaraphs I > deleted... :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> > To: <utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:44 PM > Subject: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets > > > > It must be remembered that the so-called "life > zone" > > really applies to life as we know it. That is, > > carbon-based, water chemistry. > > > > Currently, the variables favored for the famous > "Drake > > Equation" don't bode well for abundant life in any > > particular galaxy. It may well be that there are > only > > one or two technologically advanced civilizations > > alive at any given time in the same galaxy. > Simple > > life-forms could be more abundant, but that's not > as > > exciting as the possibility of communication with > > beings as advanced or more so than we are. > (THAT's > > pretty presumptive and pompous, really; we may not > be > > advanced at all relatively speaking. We humans > have a > > fairly bloated self-image. From what I see on the > > evening news, I'm not impressed, on the whole.) > > > > This means that the possibilty of a > "Star-Trek"-like > > future is close to nil. We could be alone in the > > Milky Way right now. By the time the next > > civilization evolves, we will probably be long > > extinct. > > > > But, extrapolate to the universe as a whole: Even > > with only one advanced civilization per galaxy, > the > > universe is teeming with life! There are a LOT of > > galaxies out there! > > > > To me, the search for habitable planets should be > with > > an eye towards eventual colonization, rather than > > holding out hope for Romulans or exo-bacteria, or > > something in-between. If we are to survive far > into > > the distant future, as humans or our evolutionary > > descendants, then it is mandatory that we leave > the > > Earth eventually. One day it will not be > habitable, > > either due to solar evolution, or our lousy > > stewardship. We treat our planet like a > mentally-ill > > person living in a filthy apartment with 100 cats. > > And I'll stand by that analogy. We are the only > > species that purposely damage our environment, to > me > > that's a sure sign of mental illness. Go ahead > and > > classify unbridled greed as mental illness. > > > > OK, lunch is over, I'll put away the soapbox. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > - > > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files > and old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in > your message. > > > - > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the > message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and > old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in > your message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:18:03 EDT From: RStmarie@aol.com Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets - --part1_43.1324574f.27ff544b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck is right! Up at the University of Utah there is extenstive research and ample proof of life forms that appear to be based on ethanol and survive exclusively on loud music and caffiene. Some appear to be alien in origin too. ;-) Bob PS - You guys would just love the "Nickel A Night" program (also known as the HALO program, for always "have a light on") in Farmington. Seriously, the city has a brochure that begs and pleads with us to leave lights on, in addition to the street lamps, all night! Utah Power and Light must love it. I'm not joking. I'll send you a copy of the brochure. - --part1_43.1324574f.27ff544b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Chuck is right! Up at the University of Utah there is extenstive research and ample proof of life forms that appear to be based on ethanol and survive exclusively on loud music and caffiene. Some appear to be alien in origin too. ;-) Bob PS - You guys would just love the "Nickel A Night" program (also known as the HALO program, for always "have a light on") in Farmington. Seriously, the city has a brochure that begs and pleads with us to leave lights on, in addition to the street lamps, all night! Utah Power and Light must love it. I'm not joking. I'll send you a copy of the brochure.</HTML> - --part1_43.1324574f.27ff544b_boundary-- - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:49:56 -0600 From: Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets Send me a copy, pls., if possible. I am cogitatin' about a story re. light pollution. -- Joe Bauman, Deseret News, P.O. Box 1257, Salt Lake City, UT 84110. - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:36:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Re: Planets Industry Propaganda at it's best. Untruths that sound true. The public gets a false "warm fuzzy", and the power company makes money! Joe, take this lead and run with it. Tell the world, or at least our corner of it. Chuck - --- RStmarie@aol.com wrote: > Chuck is right! Up at the University of Utah there > is extenstive research > and ample proof of life forms that appear to be > based on ethanol and survive > exclusively on loud music and caffiene. Some appear > to be alien in origin > too. ;-) > > Bob > > PS - You guys would just love the "Nickel A Night" > program (also known as the > HALO program, for always "have a light on") in > Farmington. Seriously, the > city has a brochure that begs and pleads with us to > leave lights on, in > addition to the street lamps, all night! Utah Power > and Light must love it. > I'm not joking. I'll send you a copy of the > brochure. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> Subject: (utah-astronomy) Go Joe! Joe, make it a good one! With all the talk of energy conservation in the western states, this might just be a more palatable idea to the masses nowadays (turning off lights), especially when combined with some IDA stats regarding false notions about crime reduction with [improper] lighting, etc. One other topic you might want to mention in your article is the fairly recent discovery by scientists that babies who do not sleep in dark rooms (who either have a night light or brighter left on in their rooms) are far more likely to suffer from myopia later in life than those who sleep in the dark. The conclusion was that the developing eyes of infants need to spend time in the dark during a 24 hour period. I personally have lived in the glow of invasive street lights that made it almost impossible to sleep in the dark, short of installing very opaque blinds. FWIW, Rich - --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote: > Send me a copy, pls., if possible. I am cogitatin' > about a story re. light > pollution. -- Joe Bauman, Deseret News, P.O. Box > 1257, Salt Lake City, UT > 84110. > > > > - > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and > old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in > your message. > > > ________________ > Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: > http://www.bn3.com. > We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, In > 5 minutes! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Go Joe! Okay, maybe not mention the night light link to myopia; while trying to find the article I mentioned reading a year or two ago, I found a follow-up article that seemed to dispute the findings of the earlier study. Erring on the side of caution would still be reason enough to sleep in the dark, but the public won't likely buy it. Oh well, it sounded good anyway! - --- Richard Tenney <retenney@yahoo.com> wrote: > Joe, make it a good one! With all the talk of > energy > conservation in the western states, this might just > be > a more palatable idea to the masses nowadays > (turning > off lights), especially when combined with some IDA > stats regarding false notions about crime reduction > with [improper] lighting, etc. > > One other topic you might want to mention in your > article is the fairly recent discovery by scientists > that babies who do not sleep in dark rooms (who > either > have a night light or brighter left on in their > rooms) > are far more likely to suffer from myopia later in > life than those who sleep in the dark. The > conclusion > was that the developing eyes of infants need to > spend > time in the dark during a 24 hour period. I > personally have lived in the glow of invasive street > lights that made it almost impossible to sleep in > the > dark, short of installing very opaque blinds. > > FWIW, > Rich > > --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote: > > Send me a copy, pls., if possible. I am cogitatin' > > about a story re. light > > pollution. -- Joe Bauman, Deseret News, P.O. Box > > 1257, Salt Lake City, UT > > 84110. > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > > the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files > and > > old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in > > your message. > > > > > > ________________ > > Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: > > http://www.bn3.com. > > We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, > In > > 5 minutes! > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > - > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and > old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in > your message. > > > ________________ > Email Forwarding Service Brought To You By: > http://www.bn3.com. > We can let you become anybody@anyplace.com. FREE, In > 5 minutes! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:37:18 -0600 From: Patrick Wiggins <p.wiggins@m.cc.utah.edu> Subject: (utah-astronomy) Re: Redwood Mutli-Purpose center Chuck Hards wrote: > > I vote in favor of trying the place out. I used to > attend meetings of the Sci-Fi club there, in the > '70's. Points to be addressed at this and any site should probably include: 1) The availability of audio/visual equipment (projectors, screen, PA system) 2) Would the room routinely be available on the 3rd Thursday of the month 3) Would we have to set up and take down chairs 4) Is there adequate near by parking 5) Is there a fee Chuck, would you care to check these out and report your findings at the next meeting? > But the really important question is: > What's the closest restaraunt for "advanced training"? That one I can answer now. There's a Village Inn just down the road at 45th and Redwood. The down side there is that that's the place that always serves Siegfried first even if he shows up late... :-) - - To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------ End of utah-astronomy-digest V1 #38 *********************************** - To unsubscribe to $LIST, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe $LIST" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.