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trektrade-digest        Saturday, June 24 2000        Volume 99 : Number 426



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(TrekTrade) eBay seller dbsultan posting forged star trek autographs
(TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
Re: (TrekTrade) Obvious forgeries
RE: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
RE: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
(TrekTrade) trade values
Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
--

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Super R.C." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (TrekTrade) eBay seller dbsultan posting forged star trek autographs

to whom it may concern,
    i have reason to believe that autographs that are being sold by
userid: 'dbsultan' are counterfeit. i have reason to believe this the case
because i have seen the scans of the autographs and compared them to
actual signatures: the signatures do NOT EVEN come close.
    using dbsultan's item# 358190658 for sale, this is an autographed
postcard by deforest kelley (dr. mccoy). however look at item# 363588919:
there is a deforest kelley autograph inserted into packs of star trek
cards: compare the signatures and tell me they look alike.
    the item that really made me sick was #364892092. this is a 1999
star trek card with a very swift and strong signature: deforest kelley was
terminally ill and had his last signing in my 1999. photo in item#
365286313 shows a very weak and degraded signature
    my hope is that you see this letter and take action: i have a
genuine copy of a deforest kelley signature i obtained at a convention and
comparing that to the signatures dbsultan is selling, it is off, WAY OFF.
another point of reference is in the end of Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered
Country: it shows all the signatures of the origional cast "signing off":
compare that to what dbsultan is selling and say they are a match.
    please understand my anger and frustration in this matter: just
because a person has a 3800+rating doesn't mean the items are kosher, just
that the transaction worked out well, etc. with all the counterfeit
memorabilia out there, dbsultan has the nerve to post his counterfeit
products on ebay: the line must be drawn here and i hope that action will
be taken.
    if you have any questions whatsoever, please don't hesistate to
reply.

Sincerely,
Roger Chen
eBay member since 1998



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:38:50 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries

Roger - and anyone else interested in such problems -
    Counterfiet autographs are always a problem and it's always caveat
emptor.  In your partictular case (without even looking at the relevant eBay
items from this guy dbsultan), let me say these things I noticed in your
statement:


> because i have seen the scans of the autographs and compared them to
> actual signatures: the signatures do NOT EVEN come close.

1. Signatures differ.  I know, you'll probably say 'Yes, but not that much.'
They do, though.  There's a book someone had at a convention of autographs and
if you look at a Leonard Nimoy autograph from the 1970s and compare it to his
signature now, you'll see they're nothing alike.  That said . . .2. Signatures
within a year differ only so much and you're probably right about this guy.
To be sure, however, I'd learn about the circumstances wherein he supposedly
recieved these autographs.  Year they were done becomes terribly important.
One of the best sources is the company that sells the autographed plaques (NOT
at conventions) but to distributors like Media Play and there's an ad in
Starlog for a company that's 100% legal and reliable as well.  Even (it pains
me to say this as I am one) convention dealers are not so reliable.  Comparing
to one of those autographed plaques or the skybox cards is a GOOD way to
compare signatures within a same or close year.

>         the item that really made me sick was #364892092. this is a 1999
> star trek card with a very swift and strong signature: deforest kelley was
> terminally ill and had his last signing in may 1999.

Just a little rumor control here.  Be careful about what you're saying.  He
had his last PUBLIC/CONVENTION signing in May 1999.  He was, however, signing
items up until his death.  He TOOK fan mail to the hospital with him and WAS
LITERALLY signing things up to the DAY BEFORE he died (Source: Richard Arnold,
friend of Roddenberry, Kelly, etc. whom I've worked for and been in contact
with for years now.  He, by the way, talked to Berman, who assured him he
signed at least 1000 of the MFTF cards, so it's not as rare a card as dealers
would like you to believe.)  Richard took care of repacking those final
autographs and sending them back to the people who had sent them to De.

>         please understand my anger and frustration in this matter: just
> because a person has a 3800+rating doesn't mean the items are kosher,

I agree.  It could easily mean the guy just swindled 3800+ people.

Anyway, as my own public service, I would like to present my long in the
making "Obvious forgeries" list.  These just a few kind examples of things to
avoid because they can't POSSIBLY be authentic:

1. Any SkyBox TOS Episode Series 1 or 2 card autographed by Mark Lenard (he
was dead well before it came out).
2. A TNG Inagural Edition 003 autographed by Gene Roddenberry.
3. Pretty much any Star Trek card autographed by Roger C. Carmel (Mudd).
4. As I understand the history, pretty much any Trek card autographed by
Jeffery Hunter.
5. Depending on who you ask, Trek cards autographed by Ronnie Cox may or may
not be authentic; he was reported dead almost three years ago, yet last year
appeared on "The Practice" go figure.
6. TOS2 card of Zephram Cochrane autographed by Glenn Corbett.
7. ANY Post-first season signature by Robert Picardo in which the dot from the
"i" is not in the P - he calls it the "smiling fish" signature and he's VERY
concientious about it.
8. Any Paramount Liscenced product from the last three years produced directly
through Viacomm liscensing (not, for instance, the plaques, which may be
signed by contractual arrangement directly to the artist) of Michael Dorn
(who's pissed with the residual agreement and has been screwed over royally by
the liscensing department) and/or Colm Meany (who's too much the "actor" to
stoop to such things.)  :)
9.  And, as I unserstand it, any TOS card autographed by Susan Oliver (Vina).
10.  Finally, any card autographed by Persis Khambatta (I spelled that wrong)
from after 1980.  Promptly after TMP, she went to Africa and got sick and
died.  So, certainly ANY Skybox card autographed by her is a forgery.

These are just some obvious ones.  There are plenty more, I'm sure.  Most are
not so easy to spot.
- -W.L. Swarts



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:36:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ben Meyers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (TrekTrade) Obvious forgeries

Good morning.  Last year I bought my brother an autographed 8x10 of
DeForest Kelley as Dr McCoy, from a local outlet of a reputable nat'l
collectibles dealer.  I had ordered it before Mr. Kelley died but it was
not available until after his passing, and the clerk mentioned that if I'd
oredered it later it would have been marked up 50%.  Anyway, when I got it
home I examined it, much like RC had suggested, using ST:VI and other
known autographs.  Well, lmty, I couldn't believe it when I realized that
the signature read "DeFrost Kelly", misspelling both the first and last
names!  I returned it for a full refund.  Then on Ebay, for the same
price, I won an autographed copy of his poetry booklet, which includes a
facsimilie autograph; the signatures match and my brother loves it.




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:43:51 -0400
From: "Lynne Stewart" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries

  He, by the way, talked to Berman, who
> assured him he
> signed at least 1000 of the MFTF cards, so it's not as rare a
> card as dealers
> would like you to believe.)
I deleted the rest of this note not cause it wasn't important, you made good
points, but cause this was the part that interested me...
I'm curious about this. I have struggled to find out the rarity of the
Berman. SkyBox just won't talk about it. Steve C told me his contract was
for 500. The then entertainment director of SkyBox would say only that he
returned many unsigned and that it would be the rarest of all ST auto cards.
I spoek with Jeff Feeney who works in the ST card department now and he sais
Berman returned 350. That makes it sound like 150.
I personally don't care one way or the other if it's rare or common. I am
interested in the truth, and it maddens me SkyBox won't tell.
It isn't the card dealers making this card sound rare, it's SkyBox. They are
the ones who provided a piece of info to make it sound so bad.
Lynne



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:10:27 -0700
From: Mark Cutler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries

Way wrong on this one - Persis Khambatta died within the last year. There
was a good amount of publicity at the time.

> From: [e-mail]
> Reply-To: [e-mail]
> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:38:50 -0400
> To: "Super R.C." <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> Subject: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
> > Anyway, as my own public service, I would like to present my long in the
> making "Obvious forgeries" list.  These just a few kind examples of things to
> avoid because they can't POSSIBLY be authentic:
>
>  10.  Finally, any card autographed by Persis Khambatta (I spelled that wrong)
> from after 1980.  Promptly after TMP, she went to Africa and got sick and
> died.  So, certainly ANY Skybox card autographed by her is a forgery.



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:54:28 -0500
From: Jeff Jacob <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries

> Way wrong on this one - Persis Khambatta died within the last year. There
> was a good amount of publicity at the time.


Persis Khambatta, Miss India 1965 and star of the very first Star Trek
motion picture, died August 18, 1998.


- --
                            _____..---======+*+=======--..___
 ___________________ __,-='=====____  ==============    ___=====
(.__________________I__) - _-=_/    `'------=+=-------'`
    /    /__...---==='---+---_'     Capt. Jeffrey S Jacob
   '----'---.___ - _ =   _.-'           ICQ 51919923
                -------'               [e-mail]
     Home Page Site  http://members.home.net/capcom1/
     Sad Mirror Site http://members.xoom.com/capcom2/


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:15:35 -0400
From: "Lynne Stewart" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries

I OOOOPSED below. I meant to say SkyBox told me he returned 350 unsigned,
leaving it at 150 signed.

Lynne
>
>  ---- you wrote:
> >   He, by the way, talked to Berman, who
> > > assured him he
> > > signed at least 1000 of the MFTF cards, so it's not as rare a
> > > card as dealers
> > > would like you to believe.)
> > I deleted the rest of this note not cause it wasn't
> important, you made good
> > points, but cause this was the part that interested me...
> > I'm curious about this. I have struggled to find out the
> rarity of the
> > Berman. SkyBox just won't talk about it. Steve C told me
> his contract was
> > for 500. The then entertainment director of SkyBox would
> say only that he
> > returned many unsigned and that it would be the rarest of
> all ST auto cards.
> > I spoek with Jeff Feeney who works in the ST card
> department now and he sais
> > Berman returned 350. That makes it sound like 150.
> > I personally don't care one way or the other if it's rare
> or common. I am
> > interested in the truth, and it maddens me SkyBox won't tell.
> > It isn't the card dealers making this card sound rare, it's
> SkyBox. They are
> > the ones who provided a piece of info to make it sound so bad.
> > Lynne
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > TrekTrade is also available in a digest format.



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 00:10:56 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (TrekTrade) trade values

Hi,  since Collect is gone and Non Sport Update doesn't have them listed yet,
 does anyone have a good handle on trade values for Women of ST?
I need a rough idea on the set, heroines and archive cards.  All help will be
appreciated.
thanks,
Barbara


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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:12:00 -0700
From: Mark Cutler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries

Oh well, it was more than a year, so I was wrong too. But it sure wasn't
1980!

> From: Jeff Jacob <[e-mail]>
> Organization: Real Cool Star Trek Cards
> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:54:28 -0500
> To: Mark Cutler <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (TrekTrade) dbsultan and Obvious forgeries
>
>> Way wrong on this one - Persis Khambatta died within the last year. There
>> was a good amount of publicity at the time.
>
>
> Persis Khambatta, Miss India 1965 and star of the very first Star Trek
> motion picture, died August 18, 1998.
>
>
> --
> _____..---======+*+=======--..___
> ___________________ __,-='=====____  ==============    ___=====
> (.__________________I__) - _-=_/    `'------=+=-------'`
> /    /__...---==='---+---_'     Capt. Jeffrey S Jacob
> '----'---.___ - _ =   _.-'           ICQ 51919923
> -------'               [e-mail]
> Home Page Site  http://members.home.net/capcom1/
> Sad Mirror Site http://members.xoom.com/capcom2/



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End of trektrade-digest V99 #426
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