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From: owner-persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com (persfin-digest) To: persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: persfin-digest V5 #14 Reply-To: persfin Sender: owner-persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes persfin-digest Friday, May 15 1998 Volume 05 : Number 014 In this issue: RE: Vanguard advisory service RE: Home Equity loan or Auto Loan World oil market Advisory services Re: Gift taxes - parents give 800 shares to adult children? Re: advisory service for 500$ MESSY POSTS Re: Home Equity - hidden costs? Scuse the HTML buying rental condo Persfin editing and formatting... RE: Vanguard Pers-fin Advisory Service Traditional vs. Roth IRA FNMA Rates Any advice for fraud victim? [none] The messages posted to the Persfin-Digest are opinions and are not intended to substitute for qualified professional advice. Subscribers should seek the services of qualifed professionals for such advice. The publisher, Internet provider, and Digest contributors cannot be held responsible for any loss incurred as a result of the application of any of the information provided here. Copyright (c) 1998, Jeff Salisbury POSTED SUBSCRIPTION FEE: $20/year. Payment is optional. You will not be billed. The Digest is available to all subscribers, whether or not they pay. I do not discriminate either in favor of paying subscribers or against nonpaying subscribers. If you feel that the information presented here is worth the fee, and you feel comfortable paying it, send cash, check, or money order (U.S. funds), payable to "Jeff Salisbury", to: Jeff Salisbury 65 North 1300 East Logan, Utah 84321 Payment will be acknowledged by e-mail if you include an e-mail address. Subscribe: e-mail majordomo@xmission.com, text: subscribe persfin-digest Unsubscribe: e-mail majordomo@xmission.net, text: unsubscribe persfin-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:08:11 -0400 From: "Porter, Jim R" <jrporter@switch.com> Subject: RE: Vanguard advisory service John, perhaps I'm biased, but that sounds like a lot of money for this service. I agree with your concern -- you may interpret a question in a way that doesn't correspond with their interpretation, and this could affect the answers. I'm not making a specific recommendation, but I'll tell you what I did. I contacted American Express IDS and got a similar service for about half of that price. But I got to meet face-to-face with a rep, so we could discuss the nuances of the questions. I think talking through the questions with someone is mandatory. A hypothetical example: if you are asked to rate your tolerance for investment risk on a 1-to-10 scale, how could you know that your answer of (let's say) "5" means what they think it should mean? What was involved? Many, many questions. I was starting to wonder what I was paying for, because it seemed like I was doing all the work. But that's what has to be done in order to come up with sound, tailored recommendations, and I'm glad that they asked all those things. To name but a few: when do you want to retire, how much money do you want to spend per year in retirement, do you have interim savings goals (how much do you need and when will you need it), how much do you expect your salary to increase per year, how much do you think inflation will be, how many years to you want to finance your retirement for (do you want to be prepared to live to 90?), what kind of disability insurance do you have, etc.,etc. Now, I knew up front that IDS will recommend their own funds and to avoid any hard feelings I told the rep up front that as far as I was concerned, I was paying only for the financial plan and their recommendations, and that I wouldn't feel obligated to implement any part of the plan through IDS. What I got back was about 60 pages of relevant analysis, naturally filled with charts and graphs, that made specific recommendations that should help us reach our goals. Not only do I think it was money well-spent, but just going through the exercise forced us to more closely examine some of our longer-term goals that were not well defined. I'll close by saying that instead of trying to get answers to the questions you raise (and they are certainly good ones), meet with someone _in person_ and just avoid having to wonder if your answers will be interpreted correctly, as well as having the opportunity to raise any specific concerns you may have that, for whatever reason, didn't happen to find their way on to a preprinted questionnaire. I don't think you'll have to spend any more than what Vanguard is charging for a what may be a completely computerized service. Best of luck. > -----Original Message----- > > Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:46:18 +0900 (JST) > From: jdennis@po3.nsknet.or.jp (John D. Dennis) > Subject: Vanguard Pers-fin Advisory Service > > Vanguard has recently introduced a personal financial advisory service. > For > a one time fee of $500 they'll review your investment portfolio, your > retirement plan, etc. I realize this is new, but has anyone had any > experience with this service? I called them, and now a 20 page > questionnaire is apparently on its way to me. I'm thinking there may be > different ways to fill out this form, and that some answers may "place" me > in a category which may not be appropriate--does anybody have any > suggestions for what the "key" questions might be? Or, how to best avoid > being pigeon-holed by a few of your answers and having the rest ignored? > Also, regarding this or other such "services," what are the do's or > don't's > or other pros or cons to keep in mind? > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:32:06 -0400 From: Stephan Iscoe <stephan@linktosuccess.com> Subject: RE: Home Equity loan or Auto Loan Bharat Rao asked: > Home Equity loan or Auto Loan Aside from the fees, points, etc that you already mentioned, the big "gotcha's" include - If you need to move sooner than the home value appreciates; you could find yourself "upside-down" on the loan payoff. I think home equity loans are a good way to finance needed house repairs or improvements that add value; maybe even to pay off high interest credit card debt; but the value of your new car will drop by 30% or more as soon as you drive it off the lot. I'd look for a special finance deal on a new car. The Big 5 are all heavily discounting and many either have "captive" finance arms like Ford Motor Credit or GMAC, or special arrangements with lenders and can give really great deals on models they want to move fast (all of them, now!) -I've seen deals thru local credit unions as low as 1.9%. Best to You, Stephan Iscoe Ann Arbor, MI ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dedicated to Helping You Achieve Your Goals Visit http://www.LinktoSuccess.com "Winners Visualize the Rewards of Success" We Reward Web Site Owners for Linking to our Site! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:40:26 -0700 From: R & L Rasmussen <ideas@mill.net> Subject: World oil market Hello All: I would appreciate any feedback on the available no (low) load funds that might be a good vehicle for an investment (proxy) in the world oil prices. Thanks, Ralph Rasmussen _________________________________________________________ _ R & L Rasmussen - ideas@mill.net An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less. Encryption: PGP Diffie-Hellman DSS Public Key: 87A4 B861 1D7F 6A11 A464 6548 FFF5 1D8E 867C 350A ___________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:55:30 -0400 From: eric <eric_marcus@compuserve.com> Subject: Advisory services Jane B. Quinn had a great article in a recent Newsweek. She sent a researcher to 6 advisory services ( with the same data). Back came 6 different "opinions" about what she should do. Many didn't take into account some very important information about her situation. Most of them= sell something (either overtly or covertly)-- so be aware of the vested interest. If you use such a service, then at least use two of them-- and compare the results. If similiar, go for it. If not. take two aspirins an= d post a note here in the morning! PS: I'll bet you a Rolls Royce that Prudential will recommend mutual fund= s- of course the high loads sold by--- guess who? Eric - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:48:42 -0400 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@animato.pn.com> Subject: Re: Gift taxes - parents give 800 shares to adult children? [Disclaimer: this is my opinion, not advice. I am not a professional.] >Is there a state or federal tab liability if parents give a large block >(800 shares) of stock to an adult child? It depends on the price of the stock. To the extent that you give gifts of more than $10,000 in a single year to a single person (doesn't matter if that person is related to you or not), there will be a gift tax liability on the excess. A person and their spouse can thus together give $20,000 per year to a single person. However, you must first start to use up the unified gift/estate tax credit of $202,500 before you actually pay any gift tax. There is no tax liability on the *recipient* regardless of the size of the gift. Spouses can make unlimited gifts to each other with no gift tax liability at all. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:51:02 EDT From: Duke o W <DukeoW@aol.com> Subject: Re: advisory service for 500$ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From: jdennis@po3.nsknet.or.jp (John D. Dennis) Subject: Vanguard Pers-fin Advisory Service Vanguard has recently introduced a personal financial advisory service. For a one time fee of $500 they'll review your investment portfolio, your retirement plan, etc. I realize this is new, but has anyone had any experience with this service? I called them, and now a 20 page questionnaire is apparently on its way to me. I'm thinking there may be different ways to fill out this form, and that some answers may "place" me in a category which may not be appropriate--does anybody have any suggestions for what the "key" questions might be? Or, how to best avoid being pigeon-holed by a few of your answers and having the rest ignored? Also, regarding this or other such "services," what are the do's or don't's or other pros or cons to keep in mind? Thanks, jd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $500 may be a lot for evaluating a 20 page listing. On the other hand this amount should buy a at least a couple of hours of first rate advisory time face to face. Many of these finincaial planners give seminars for a nominal or no costs to explain what they can do and not do. Locating the good ones is more difficult. There is too much "top 10 performance" in the advice business. There is good reason to look for "average results" for the really long haul. It has worked for me. There is one good advisor I met in the Washington DC area who sells services as well as advice (a usual combination). Another that impressed me operates out of Palm Beach area of Florida. He gets his from finders fees and comissions on products he supplies, and also does by the hour work. Percentage fee for service types typically want 1% of assets with a minimum of 50K invested. Since there is no significant difference between the choice of what to own for 50K or 500K or a million, I am not willing to pay this cost yet! Active management of assets can add overhead of another 1% a year!. Not for this guy. That is one thing in favor of the fixed fee rather than percentage. Right now we are nearing end of moving money around to avoid estate taxes. It's surprising just what is included in the "estate". It is especially hard on IRA/40X accounts. First the estate pays income tax to get it out the "tax free" hole, then it is easy to be hit second time with 37-55% estate taxes. Our lawyer can protect us from this with a will that sets up a bypass trust, but that only works for the first 1.2 million. We plan to spend a lot over the remaining years to avoid this problem. My gut feeling is that the 20 pages should set U up to understand what is important, spending the $500 is another matter. Latest Vanguard newsletter had a section on estate protection that addresses the tax problems of joint ownership! Save 4-5% in probate costs and get hit with 37% taxes on a half million or so. I guess I should get a copy to see what I might have missed. The usual disclaimers apply. duke - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 00:50:30 EDT From: BobWo <BobWo@aol.com> Subject: MESSY POSTS Jeff, Since you took over the persfin-digest the posts are a mess. There are many one word lines, much wasted white space, strange symbols in some posts (=,&) You might want to consult Ira on how to edit the posts. I do realize your new at this, but If the posts don't improve, i'm giving up my subscription. Bob Wolff - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:42:17 EDT From: WDStancil <WDStancil@aol.com> Subject: Re: Home Equity - hidden costs? > The question I have though is that are their any hidden costs > associated with home equity loans? (Fees, early payment > costs, etc.?) One thing I have seen is that the home equity > loans often have an introductory rate (as low as 6% in some > cases) so if there was no cost associated with pre-paying > the loan (and no closing/settlement costs), whats to prevent > someone from taking a short loan at 6% with the intention > of paying it back in full in 6 months -- and repeating -- > essentially getting a 6 month line of credit at v. low interest. Well, the financing institution is betting you'll keep a balance on the credit line - just like credit card issuers. Opening a home equity line is much the same as getting a mortgage. But many institutions will run specials and absorb all the closing costs, so check around for the best deal. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:17:30 -0600 From: Jeff Morgan <Morgajs@parsec.com> Subject: Scuse the HTML This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD7F48.6D4317A0 Content-Type: text/plain I apparently posted an HTML copy of the last message I sent, along with the text version. The mail software I use does not allow me to control this behavior, as far as I know. Maybe it's the web interface to the mail reader I was using. Maybe it's the phase of the moon. At any rate, I apologize. This is a prime example of why I prefer a PRODUCTION platform like VMS over the garbage Bill Gates pushes. ~~~|-( hand. - -- Jeff Morgan - morgajs@parsec.com - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD7F48.6D4317A0 Content-Type: text/html <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.1960.3"> <TITLE>Scuse the HTML</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> I apparently posted an HTML copy of the last message I sent, along with the text version. The mail software I use does not allow me to control this behavior, as far as I know. Maybe it's the web interface to the mail reader I was using. Maybe it's the phase of the moon. At any rate, I apologize. This is a prime example of why I prefer a PRODUCTION platform like VMS over the garbage Bill Gates pushes. ~~~|-( hand. -- Jeff Morgan - morgajs@parsec.com </BODY> </HTML> - ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD7F48.6D4317A0-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:54:57 -0400 From: "Martin S. Turnauer" <mturnaue@runet.edu> Subject: buying rental condo I would like to findout what kind of experiences people on the list have had owning a rental condo at a beach area. What kind of problems are encountered when you rent a property via an agency? Can this business be profitable? Thanks - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:08:24 -0600 From: Jeff Salisbury <jeff.salisbury@sdl.usu.edu> Subject: Persfin editing and formatting... Everyone, There has been a small stir created because of some undesirable formatting that has made into our discussion group. Ira manually edited every persfin message. I decided at the onset that I would not manually edit messages. I've successfully run another list (canslim stock investments) for several years now without manual editing -- to do so would be a near full-time job Instead, I have implemented some new automatic filters designed specifically to catch messages with: * HTML version emails * Binary files * Excessive quotes of previous persfin messages These new filters identify certain messages (specific patterns, or messages that exceed a specific size) and send them to me for approval. I've already tested these filters and they seem to work well. I expect this will make an immediate difference in reducing the number of badly formatted messages. Over the next few days and weeks, I'll fine-tune the filters as required. Best Regards, Jeff - persfin admin - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:54:20 -0400 From: Rick.Schafer@bdk.com Subject: RE: Vanguard Pers-fin Advisory Service [Schafer, Rick] I recently took a 6-week class at our local community college called 'Personal Financial Planning'. It was taught by a local VP from AG Edwards who was very experienced and knowledgeable. It cost $60. He did not try to steer us towards their services in any overt way. The class culminated in having an AG Edwards personal financial plan produced based on our answers to a questionnaire (some elected not to participate). You may want to look around for something like this before jumping in at $500. Rick Schafer - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:06:35 -0400 From: PowellFamily <PowellFamily@tri-countynet.net> Subject: Traditional vs. Roth IRA According to all the information sent to me, the only time a Roth IRA is to your advantage is if you think your tax bracket will be the same or higher when you retire. Personally, I am planning for a lower tax bracket. At that time my house will be paid for, my children will no longer be living with us, and I have built up most of my necessities already. I want to use the rest to LIVE along the way. I want to enjoy nice vacations with my children. Do I think it would be advisable to change over a traditional to a Roth IRA so you can pay taxes today instead of defer them which is what made sense of an IRA to begin with? No Way! Sherri - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:00:16 EDT From: KGreene525 <KGreene525@aol.com> Subject: FNMA Rates My mortgage lender (Bank) quotes mortgage rates based on the FNMA (Fannie Mae) rates. Where on the Web can I find a reliable source for these rates? THANKS - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:32:40 -0400 From: bonsai@channel1.com Subject: Any advice for fraud victim? Well, it had to happen sooner or later I suppose: I got a phone call this evening from Cyberian Outpost; they were trying to confirm an internet order charged to my Mastercard but ordered shipped to an address in Chelyabinsk, Russia. The rep only gave me the first four and last four digits of the MC used but they matched mine, so I called my issuer and cancelled the account. I have never used my credit card over the internet out of fear of just this type of thing happening, so the info had to have been procured some other way, but what way, I do not know (well, I know the card hasn't been stolen, but that's it). Which leads me to ask: how paranoid should I be? Should I have my checking account cancelled/re-issued? Or more?? If someone got a hold of my MC number, name, and address how hard is it for them to find out my bank account info and/or ssn, or apply for additional credit in my name?? I'm not even sure what questions to ask... Any advice would be appreciated! tia-- Bonnie - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:28:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Elik E. Hirsch" <hirsch@argos.argoscomp.com> Subject: [none] Hello All. I know this has been asked before but I never wrote it down. Does anyone have a phone number/contact/address for donating used p.c and getting a tax deduction out of it? TIA... - - ------------------------------ End of persfin-digest V5 #14 **************************** - To unsubscribe to persfin-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe persfin-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.