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orb-digest         Monday, September 18 2000         Volume 02 : Number 363




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:23:23 -0400
From: "Meredith, Justin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) Making MP3s avail. for free

If you are a recording artist and you allowed people to download your music
for free-think of all the exposure you would get! Imagine when it came time
for you to tour! Record companies should be afraid- not the artists!

     Justin Meredith
  Ikon Office Solutions
   [e-mail]
           480 731 3839



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:44:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (orb) CD... VINYL... OR MP3s

> MP3s are more than likely going to replace CDs. I wouldn't worry to much
> about CD shelf life....
>
> ...i bet new formats will be invented to "burn" the music on to- but by then
> we probably won't need them anyway, as more and more people are buying
> computers.

New software formats indeed. MP3s, sure, but have you heard of MPEG 4?
With this new compression they can now compress an entire DVD movie to
fit onto CD with negligible loss of quality (an 11:1 reduction over the
MPEG 2 movie format on DVDs)...

(more at http://www.tomshardware.com/video/00q3/000913/index.html)

Improved (i.e. smaller) music formats can't be that far off.


james






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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Benjamin L. May" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

> > MP3s are more than likely going to replace CDs. I wouldn't worry to much
> > about CD shelf life....
>
> oh god, i hope not.  i fully don't expect this to happen.

    I don't think so either, for several reasons. 1) MP3 really
doesn't sound as good as a cd. Take a cd you own, convert it to MP3,
uncompress it, re-burn it and play it and you'll deinfately hear a
difference. Plus, look at say newspapers. Most have an ponline version
that has all the same stuff as the physical one. I don't see anyone no
longer buying newspapers. :) People like having something in their hands.




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:00:29 -0400
From: "Meredith, Justin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s


     MP3 really
doesn't sound as good as a cd. Take a cd you own, convert it to MP3,
uncompress it, re-burn it and play it and you'll deinfately hear a
difference.

- ----Technology is always being perfected. The quality of MP3s are directly
influenced by the quality of your MP3 player. Their are MP3 players that can
and do play higher quality sound than CDs-which you can't tell the
difference anyway.

- ----As for holding something in your hand, that is what the MP3 players are
for.Think of the possibilities-you will be able to store 100 CDs worth of
music on one player. And you dont have to worry about scratched CDs.
You can't lose!


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:30:35 +0100
From: "Alex Gould" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

>
>      MP3 really
> doesn't sound as good as a cd. Take a cd you own, convert it to MP3,
> uncompress it, re-burn it and play it and you'll deinfately hear a
> difference.
>

:)

I personally think we should go back to reel to reel tapes :)
get them old valve hifi systems out again and listen to ambient,
analogiee :)
i bet uf orb would sound gorgeous on a valve reel to reel pumped thru
a valve amp.

cheers.
alex
wales,uk.


"Without music life would be a mistake."
- - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Music was invented to confirm human loneliness."
- - Lawrence Durrell



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:45:29 -0400
From: "Meredith, Justin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

I personally think we should go back to reel to reel tapes :)
get them old valve hifi systems out again and listen to ambient,
analogiee :)
i bet uf orb would sound gorgeous on a valve reel to reel pumped thru
a valve amp.

cheers.
alex
wales,uk.

- ---or how about 8 tracks - gotta luv 'em!


"Without music life would be a mistake."
- - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Music was invented to confirm human loneliness."
- - Lawrence Durrell



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:13:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Benjamin L. May" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

> ----As for holding something in your hand, that is what the MP3 players are
> for.Think of the possibilities-you will be able to store 100 CDs worth of
> music on one player. And you dont have to worry about scratched CDs.
> You can't lose!

    My roomate has one of those. It's a toy. I mean, you have to
connect it to your computer to transfer anything and it has a measly 64
megs of storage. :) :) :)



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:35:00 -0500
From: "oobe" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

yeah, these things are POS's right now.  but they are still better than
minidiscs.  :-)

- -oobe

> My roomate has one of those. It's a toy. I mean, you have to
> connect it to your computer to transfer anything and it has a measly 64
> megs of storage. :) :) :)






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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:15:51 -0700
From: Steve Shah <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) orb spotting

Assassin playing on gogaga.com's house channel. (Real Audio)
Never thought to classify it as house, but I'm not complaining. =)

I can hear the end of it now... they are playing it off the UF Off
Album because I can hear the next track (from Orb's Little Album)
being mixed in. Oops... End of song.

- -Steve


- --
______________________________________________________________________________
Steve Shah ([e-mail]) | SysAdmin/Coder/Gabbernaut/DJ/Writer/Minister
    http://www.planetoid.org     | We're not dropping out, we're infiltrating.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       Life is best measured in beats per minute. How alive are you?



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:49:21 -0700
From: "*MoonDogg*" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

mp3 is not a media. It's an encoding algorithm. CD's are a storage medium.
mp3s can be stored on CD, as can .wav, .asf, .rma, etc. You can't compare
the two.

Also, mp3 is not the final word in audio compression. It's funny how people
have latched on to that acronym, and have built businesses around it
(mp3.com). Newer, more efficient codecs are already available, and will
replace the mp3 format eventually.

CDs will also fall by the wayside, because higher density media will replace
it, such as DVD and hard disks. would you rather have a portable player
based on CD, Minidisc, 64 megs of ram, or 10 gigs of hard disk space? It's a
no brainer.

Also, not every wants to listen to their music on their computer. Who here
has a computer that sounds better than their stereo? And how do you listen
to all those mp3s you downloaded when you are driving your car? Storage
media is not going away, it will evolve, as will digital compression
technologies.

I can't wait until I can sit at my computer and select a few hundred songs
from my jukebox to send via a wireless connection to my car.

Someday.....

*MoonDogg*



- -----Original Message-----
MP3s are more than likely going to replace CDs. I wouldn't worry to much
about CD shelf life....

...i bet new formats will be invented to "burn" the music on to- but by then
we probably won't need them anyway, as more and more people are buying
computers.

i think multimedia devices will become more compact, with more hard drive
space(Terabytes), and become way more affordable- eleminating the need for
any medium to store music.

Justin



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:59:54 -0700
From: "*MoonDogg*" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

The 64 MB RAM versions are, in my mind, worthless...but they are on the way
out.

Check out this one from Creative labs, with a 6.5 GB hard disk.
http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox/

Here's another:
http://www.pjbox.com/

This is only the beginning....

*MoonDogg*

- -----Original Message-----

> ----As for holding something in your hand, that is what the MP3 players
are
> for.Think of the possibilities-you will be able to store 100 CDs worth of
> music on one player. And you dont have to worry about scratched CDs.
> You can't lose!

    My roomate has one of those. It's a toy. I mean, you have to
connect it to your computer to transfer anything and it has a measly 64
megs of storage. :) :) :)




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 05:13:10 GMT
From: "Dan G." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) Nocturnal Wonderland...

Hey allz,

Someone asked about Nocturnal Wonderland a few orb digests ago. Sorry for
taking so long to reply, but I've been away.

It was an awesome event. 9 stages with styles including Jungle/Drum and
Bass, Trance, Ambient, Techno/House/Experimental, Hip-Hop, Hardcore, Happy
Hardcore, House, Breaks(Main Stage).

Alex came on in the Techno/House/Experimental tent. He came on about a half
hour late. He played well, but seemed a bit edgy IMO. Maybe it was the
uptight security that was keeping the smokin to a minimum (not that it
stopped me). I watched him for about 30 min and then ran over to check out
Rabbit in the Moon and Paul Okenfold, who were all scheduled around the same
time. Very annoying. I ran between them for about a half hour and went back
to see then end of Alex, but he was already gone.

As a side note, Micheal Dog came on before Alex and he kicked ass. Had the
place jumpin. Perry Farrel was supposed to play, but he never showed up.
Micheal came on early and did a great job, till Alex showed up. Alex kicked
ass for the while I saw him. I didn't hear any Orb or related being played,
but as I said, I only listened for about 30 min. and he was gone by the time
I got back at about 1:30 (he was scheduled to play from 12:00 to 1:30).

Rabbit in the Moon kicked ass too. Great sound and amusing stage antics! The
crowd really packed it in!

The overall event kicked ass. The music was splendifurous! I roamed from
stage to stage absORBing all the different styles and sounds. The stages
were set up in  a circular fashion and every stage had there own design with
different screens and effects going on. They all seemed to have lasers and
because of the circular setup, when you looked up from the center of the
field, you saw a grid of lasers passing over each other. And everyone seemed
to have some sort of glowstick or visual toy, which when multiplied by the
1000s of attendees created quitre a visual stimulation!

I styed till about 3:30 and then slept for an hour, and then had to drive
back to Tucson (6 hours) to make it back for a wedding.

So blah blah blah, any questions? email me!

L8r
danx

ps it's tea time!


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:42:10 -0700
From: "The TieDyed Side of the Force" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) Making MP3s avail. for free

> Record companies should be afraid- not the artists!

The record companies are very afraid.  That's the real reason they are
trying to sue mp3.com into the ground.  They don't want to lose control
of "their" artists.

Their business model depends on selling as many copies as possible of as
small a catalog as possible.  The last thing they want is competition from
thousands of un-signed musicians coming out of the woodwork and undercutting
them with a much greater variety of fresh, new music than they have any
intention of ever supplying.

Ride the Music

AndyTiedye




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:09:19 -0500
From: "Watercolors" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) Message-id: <[e-mail]>

 The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  The analog recording
contains infinite # of points connected to form the representative of the audio
waveform.  The digital recording takes the true waveform and divides it into
the points that make up the audio waveform.  True the digital does capture the
20hz to 20khz spectrum, but there are gaps in the spectrum b/c it is not a line
that connects the points in the digital representation.  Just the points themselves
are recorded.  The number of points the waveform is broken into is dependent
upon the sampling rate (frequency) of the digital recording.  How many points
along the x,y axis are plotted per second.  Take a 20Hz sine wave as an example.
Say it crosses the y axis at 1 and the y axis at 1. and then dips below the
  While the analog recording will contain a line containing all the points between
any two points.  The digital recording will just have the points themselves
(the number of points determines
 the quality of the recording)and will not have points in between these points.
 24/96 is closer to analog than 16/44.1 b/c their are more points that make
up the waveform.  True analog has infinite points and can not "truly" be achieved
in digital recording.  the analog vs digital debate is a matter of calculus
function notation.  why there is a lim as the f(x) approaches infinity.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:05:55 -0500
From: "oobe" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orb) Message-id: <[e-mail]>

One thing is for sure... in a debate between digital vs analog concerning
audio, RESOLUTION is not a problem with digital recordings.

- -oobe
www.oobe.org


> True the digital does capture the
> 20hz to 20khz spectrum, but there are gaps in the spectrum b/c it is not a
line
> that connects the points in the digital representation



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:30:47 -0400
From: "Meredith, Justin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

 Newer, more efficient codecs are already available, and will
replace the mp3 format eventually.

>>>that is undeniable!!! But the IDEA of the MP3 is here to stay!!

 would you rather have a portable player
based on CD, Minidisc, 64 megs of ram, or 10 gigs of hard disk space? It's a
no brainer.

>> give me the 10 gig hard drive! A 100MB hard drive 2 years ago was
actually bigger than the GB hard drives of today.Wouldn't it be possible in
the future to make them even smaller?

Also, not every wants to listen to their music on their computer.

>>>look at AOL or internet on TV-just because you have music stored as Bytes
of information does not mean it has to be played on a computer!!

 Who here
has a computer that sounds better than their stereo?

>>>how much money are you willing to spend?? What do you think must
producers and recording artists use to mix and record with???

 And how do you listen
to all those mp3s you downloaded when you are driving your car?

>>> MP3 car sterios are already out there!!!

Storage
media is not going away, it will evolve, as will digital compression
technologies.

>>>yes they will evolve-but they will have competition and they may no
longer be the norm in the future...Only time will tell!

Justin





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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:15:17 -0700
From: "The TieDyed Side of the Force" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

> >> give me the 10 gig hard drive! A 100MB hard drive 2 years ago was
> actually bigger than the GB hard drives of today.

They make gigabyte microdrives now.  It should be possible to plug two
of these into the compactflash slots on an eGo player.

> Also, not every wants to listen to their music on their computer.

Most of us want to listen to it everywhere.

> Who here has a computer that sounds better than their stereo?

They sound the same because they are the same.
I hook the computer up to the the stereo.


Ride the Music

AndyTiedye



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:45:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Benjamin L. May" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (orb) CD... VINYL...       OR MP3s

> They sound the same because they are the same.
> I hook the computer up to the the stereo.

    Heh heh. I was so glad when my roomate got a 4 channel mixer. Each
one has an input select, so I can have 8 devices hooked up through this
thing, and I can mix on any 4, including my computer. :)



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:42:54 -0500
From: "Watercolors" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) Orbserver

the little flucuations in the waveform between the points is what gives analog
its distinctive sound and why cd sounds so crisp and clean.


and check out this cool site...
http://www.mchawking.com/


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:14:16 -0700
From: rachel <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) live Orb date?

anyone in Santa Ana?  Looks like an excellent show is coming through town:
http://www.ticketmaster.com/cgi/tm2k_search.idc?searchname=The+Orb&submit=GO%21&
state=CA&type=SEARCH

i'm jealous!

=)
rachel





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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:54:51 -0700
From: Jeff Pitblado <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orb) live Orb date?

> anyone in Santa Ana?  Looks like an excellent show is coming through town:
> http://www.ticketmaster.com/cgi/tm2k_search.idc?searchname=The+Orb&submit=
> GO%21&
> state=CA&type=SEARCH

Hmm.  I'm close enough that I could probably go, but the show isn't listed
on Galaxy's site http://www.galaxytheatre.com/Upcoming/upcoming.htm
- -----
If guns cause crime,
all of mine are defective.


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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:15:18 -0400
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?zenlab=AE?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orb) Looking for...

: perhaps some of the lower frequencies we can't hear we can feel at high
: dBs?

nice point.


╗ eric│
- ----------------------------------
╗ web developer . pixel pusher
╗ zenlab : enlightened web designs
╗ www.thezenlab.com
- ----------------------------------
╗ ZeroChaos.com
╗ www.zerochaos.com
╗ Freelancers! Click Here!
- ----------------------------------
╗ ScreamDesign.com
╗ www.screamdesign.com
╗ Learning Place for the Web Generation



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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:22:23 -0400
From: =?Windows-1252?Q?zenlab=AE?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orb) Nocturnal Wonderland...

: Rabbit in the Moon kicked ass too. Great sound and amusing stage antics!
The
: crowd really packed it in!

if you liked Rabbit - check out the temple i created:
http://www.users.dark.net/ritm/

Rabbit in the Moon is homegrown talent in Florida. (i'm in orlando.)



╗ eric│
- ----------------------------------
╗ web developer . pixel pusher
╗ zenlab : enlightened web designs
╗ www.thezenlab.com
- ----------------------------------
╗ ZeroChaos.com
╗ www.zerochaos.com
╗ Freelancers! Click Here!
- ----------------------------------
╗ ScreamDesign.com
╗ www.screamdesign.com
╗ Learning Place for the Web Generation




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:41:51 GMT
From: "E O" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) CD-R Testing

Here's a site with some info on CDR manufacturers and their quality:

http://www.esware.net/empire/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml


- -Eric
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:57:57 -0500
From: "rmstringer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) Hello

I am new to the ORB list, But I have been a fan for over 10 years. I have
over 20 disks and about 7-8 bootleg disks. I will be interested in trading
mp3's with someone to complete my collection.
Over and Out
R.M.Stringer




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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 19:01:26 -0500
From: "rmstringer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) FFFW

Does anybody  have a copy of that album?  I got a copy when I lived in
Arizona. I really love it. L et me know what people think about it.
From 20000 feet above Indiana,

R.M.Stringer




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Ketley <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orb) Cydonia v1.0 has appeared on dmusic

Hello all,

MP3 versions of Once More and Promis have appeared on
dmusic.
http://www.dmusic.com/
http://search.dmusic.com/

I know words were exchanged when Cydonia appeared on
Napster.

Paul.


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End of orb-digest V2 #363
*************************