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n64-digest         Tuesday, December 7 1999         Volume 01 : Number 1020



Re: [N64] marketable games
Re: [N64] RE: DK layout
Re: [N64] RE: DK layout
Re: [N64] marketable games
Re: [N64] historical signifigance
Re: [N64] RE: DK layout
Re: [N64] RE: DK layout
Re: [N64] marketable games
Re: [N64] RE: DK layout
[N64] Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:51:45 EST
Re: [N64] marketable games
Re: [N64] DK help needed
Re: [N64] marketable games

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:44:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games

In a message dated 12/6/99 10:59:54 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< By dirty work I didn't mean mature games. Rare are being used release
 low-quality, high-selling games to keep the N64 alive. Besides Yoshi's Story
 which NCL needed to release for christmas 1997, NCL will not lower
 themselves to release bad games just for the sake of getting something out
 there. NOA goes to Rare and tells them what games they need them to make.
 Rare rarely gets to make the games they want the way they want. I realise
 the N64 needs games like DK64 to survive but it's dissapointing to see
 Rare's creativity compromised. >>

I guess that this depends on one's definition of creativity.  RARE has indeed
shown much creativity with it's titles.  My main reference point is, of
course, DKR.  No one in my knowledge has mixed an exploration game with a
racer and did it so successfully.  But also, I have to mention BK.  Alex will
probably be on my case for this, but I must say that even though the main
structure of BK was nothing very new, its creativeness comes from the
characters.  Most of them, including the enemies, interact with you, which
makes them more interesting.  DK64 has now added weapons.  Call me strange,
but I always like drawing my coconut gun and hearing Donkey Kong say his
little, "Yeeeaaahhhh," in that deep voice.  It's like saying, "Shows over,
kremlings.  I'm the man (monkey) in charge."  It's a small thing, but should
still be taken into consideration.  I can't say much more about it until a
couple of weeks when I'm off school.  I'll be able to get in much more N64
play time in then.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:45:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [N64] RE: DK layout

In a message dated 12/6/99 11:07:36 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Yeah but not in the hub-level. When you turn on the game, you want to play
a
 particular level, you don't want to wander through the map. Yoshi's Island
 on SNES had a perfect map system. Let's face it the map is nothing but a
 glorified menu; menus should be intuitive and easy to use. >>

OK, so where's the map in Mario?

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:49:06 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [N64] RE: DK layout

In a message dated 12/6/99 11:11:35 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< BK's overworld is fine if you're playing it through start to finish. If you
 want to pick up the game after a couple of months and go to a particular
 level you basically have to wander through until you see the level you want.
>>

That's why they have the warp pots.  Doesn't take me so long to get to a
level I want.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:54:58 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games

In a message dated 12/6/99 11:29:21 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Maybe the problem with Rare isn't that NOA pushes them around, more that
the
 talent of their development teams is unevenly distributed. >>

RARE is one of the only developers I've seen that has really come to good
terms with the N64 hardware.  Acclaim is OK, but if you ask me, RARE has some
very talented people on their team.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:12:15 +1100
From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] historical signifigance

At 23:14 06-12-99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alex <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 10:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [N64] historical signifigance
>
>
>>At 16:50 06-12-99 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>It's unfortunate that 1st person shooters try to
>>>mimick human movement which is quite complex.  With
>>>tanks simulations et all you can apply and justify
>>>such restrictions (crouching, jumping, burping......)
>>>
>>
>>Yes. Games need rules and restrictions. Basing the gameplay on reality is
>>the easy way out. This is why I don't like simulations, or games like Quake
>>where the developers gave-up and made everything configurable. Real games
>>have rules; like chess.
>>
>
>I get the feeling your just don't like choices.  You are always complaining
>about having to navigate in BK...and now about configurable games.
>
>Stryder
>

In Quake Id decided they didn't know how to make a good game, so they
provided an engine and let the player work it out. Game designers should
have specific ideas on what type of experience they are trying to create.
When you come to a fork in the road in Zelda there is usually a right and
wrong path. If you choose the wrong path, you'll have backtrack and get
something like a key. In poorly designed games both choices are equally good
or bad as you'll need to backtrack three or four times anyway.

[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:17:52 +1100
From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] RE: DK layout

At 00:45 07-12-99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/6/99 11:07:36 PM Central Standard Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
><< Yeah but not in the hub-level. When you turn on the game, you want to play
>a
> particular level, you don't want to wander through the map. Yoshi's Island
> on SNES had a perfect map system. Let's face it the map is nothing but a
> glorified menu; menus should be intuitive and easy to use. >>
>
>OK, so where's the map in Mario?
>

I mean the princess's castle, the hub, the overworld, whatever you want to
call it.

[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:21:59 +1100
From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] RE: DK layout

At 00:49 07-12-99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/6/99 11:11:35 PM Central Standard Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
><< BK's overworld is fine if you're playing it through start to finish. If you
> want to pick up the game after a couple of months and go to a particular
> level you basically have to wander through until you see the level you want.
>>>
>
>That's why they have the warp pots.  Doesn't take me so long to get to a
>level I want.

Actually I think the pots make things more confusing. It is possible to
memorise the pot colours and locations, but you shouldn't need to have to do
that for the overworld in this type of game. My point is, overworld should
be as straightforward as possible. And it isn't in Banjo Kazooie.

[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:24:44 +1100
From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games

>Return-Path: [e-mail]
>From: [e-mail]
>Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:54:58 EST
>Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games
>To: [e-mail]
>Sender: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>
>In a message dated 12/6/99 11:29:21 PM Central Standard Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
><< Maybe the problem with Rare isn't that NOA pushes them around, more that
>the
> talent of their development teams is unevenly distributed. >>
>
>RARE is one of the only developers I've seen that has really come to good
>terms with the N64 hardware.  Acclaim is OK, but if you ask me, RARE has some
>very talented people on their team.
>-Eric-
>

I'm sure Nintendo gives Rare special assistance with the hardware. However
there are some very talented technical people at Rare, working in the early
days of European gaming has taught them how to squeeze the most out of hardware.

[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:13:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [N64] RE: DK layout

In a message dated 12/7/99 12:18:39 AM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Actually I think the pots make things more confusing. It is possible to
 memorise the pot colours and locations, but you shouldn't need to have to do
 that for the overworld in this type of game. My point is, overworld should
 be as straightforward as possible. And it isn't in Banjo Kazooie. >>

Straight forward?  C'mon, man.  You're saying if you must remember things,
the game is automatically confusing, making it bad?  As I said, Mario's
overworld didn't leave much to the imagination.  I think that a straight
forward over world is a bad thing.  Plus, the BK memorization came pretty
naturally to me.  I can pick up the game months after I've played it last,
and I still can walk through it as well as Peach's castle.
- -Eric-

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:51:50 -0700
From: "Justin Smith-Williams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [N64] Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:51:45 EST

                     Feature
                                Monday, December 06, 1999 -- 6:00:00 PM
                                                               By: Angus

                  Recent figures released from Merrill Lynch have cited that
the PlayStation 2 could potentially
                  sell 100 million units by 2004. Pretty impressive numbers,
if you ask me, and they really are
                  within the realm of possibility. However, SonyÆs planned
global dominance of the video game
                  market doesnÆt take into account two major forces that
will work against this magic number:
                  Nintendo and Sega.

                  Sega has already thrown its proverbial hat into the ring
with the release of the Dreamcast,
                  and while it is a resounding success in America with one
million units briskly sold, it has
                  faltered in its homeland. If the system sells more than 35
million, I will genuinely be surprised,
                  despite my admiration for the console and the companyÆs
efforts. Sega wonÆt necessarily eat
                  into SonyÆs market share, as they will undoubtedly cater
to completely different audiences.
                  Gamers that want to play something a little off-beat,
something innovative, will look to the
                  marvels that Sega pumps out on a regular basis. On the
other hand, mass-market consumers
                  looking to own what the next-door neighbor has in his/her
living room will probably plunk down
                  the scratch for a PlayStation 2. After all (as the
PlayStation has proven), market it right and
                  the dollars will keep on coming.

                  That leaves the other threat to SonyÆs crown.
Unfortunately, Mario has been quiet.
                  Uncharacteristically quiet, in fact. When Sega announced
the Genesis, Nintendo was right
                  there with the promise of the Super Nintendo, and a few
flashy screens of Super Mario World
                  to keep gamers from laying down $189 for a Genny and a
copy of Altered Beast. When the
                  Saturn and PlayStation started stirring, Nintendo let
gamers know that there was a new
                  super-console on the horizon, and started showing tech
demos that made the PS and Saturn
                  look ancient even before they went on sale. Now the
Dreamcast is on shelves, the PS2
                  launch in Japan is three months away (and weÆve seen
plenty of screens from the first
                  generation of software), so where is the Dolphin? The
proposed worldwide release date of fall
                  of 2000 really isnÆt that far away, if you think about it.
Nine months to go, and all we know is
                  that the chipset and the media (DVD) are in the planning
stages, and Miyamoto is on top of it
                  all.

                  The planning stages?!? If thereÆs one cat in this industry
that I canÆt get enough of, itÆs
                  Miyamoto. He says whatever is on his mind, which IÆm sure
is to the chagrin of the Nintendo
                  press machine--especially here in America. In an interview
with a Japanese magazine,
                  Miyamoto went on record to say that he is currently in
planning stages with a few pieces of
                  software. And it went all over the internet, the only
media that really matters in the world of
                  video gaming. I think I could hear Peter Moore choking on
his morning coffee when that little
                  nugget went out.

                  We all know that good software takes a year or two to
make, and thatÆs if the development
                  team is familiar with the hardware. According to the
Miyamoto slip and NintendoÆs timeline,
                  that means he has nine, maybe ten, months to code a few
games for hardware that he is just
                  getting acquainted with. Never mind that there are plenty
of third-party development teams
                  that also want to make games, but do not have the luxury
of seeing the hardware shepherded
                  from prototype to final unit (provided the Dolphin becomes
a final unit, of course). That spells
                  trouble in the garden; Nintendo should know better than to
release a console prematurely,
                  with only two first-party titles on the shelves. Initial
interest is always there, but wanes after
                  three months of no software. Ask Sega--they knew that
after the botched early Saturn
                  release.

                  So, letÆs assume that the Dolphin will slip--say, by nine
months, putting the release date into
                  the middle of 2001. After all, Nintendo is never first,
and typically lags a year behind. The
                  PlayStation 2 will have an incredible holiday season under
its belt in the two key territories for
                  the marketplace: Japan and America. This is now a
mainstream industry, and the common
                  consumer often supports the clear winner (which explains
why the funnier Letterman is always
                  playing catch-up to the boorish Leno.) PlayStation 2 will
likely steal the lionÆs share of the
                  market during the pivotal 2000 holiday season. It might
even sell a million and half units, tying
                  DreamcastÆs awesome launch this year. So what can the
Dolphin do to catch up, much less
                  take the lead and keep it?

                  1. Pricing. If the pricing is right, the audience will be
there. A very early rumor said that
                  Nintendo was eyeing an unbelievably low $99 debut price.
Yowza. Who could possibly turn
                  that down? A hundred bones to play Mario, Zelda, and a
slew of Rare games? Only the
                  stubbornest Sony-philes could refuse such a deal. Hey,
even at $129.99, they could still be
                  the center ring at the big top. Pricing will be a key
issue in the DolphinÆs debut and survival.
                  The lower the better--and make sure that touting the lower
price is a key part of the
                  marketing campaign. The bottom line is, after all, the
bottom line with consumers.

                  2. Games, games, games. Nobody in this industry makes
games like Nintendo does.
                  Nobody. Who could have thought up Super Mario 64 or Zelda:
Ocarina of Time? Sony? Their
                  idea of an original first-party title: Blasto.
Unfortunately, somewhere along the way in this
                  current generation of consoles, the idea that the quality
of the game is most important got
                  lost. Actually, IÆd say it got trampled under truckloads
of marketing slogans and a million
                  copies of Tomb Raider. If Nintendo can keep up the quality
of their games, and increase
                  quantity, they will easily amass market share.

                  3. Marketing. Yeah, I know, I pooh-poohed marketing in the
last paragraph, but
                  unfortunately, thereÆs no way around it. This is the same
company that catapulted "Home
                  Alone" into one of the top-grossing films of all time.
Nintendo needs to be willing to spend the
                  marketing dollars to get the Dolphin (or whatever they
call it) in every magazine, on every
                  popular television show, all over the internet, and on the
lips of consumers everywhere. It
                  must be seen as the Next Big Thing, bigger than PS2. How
to market the machine is the big
                  question. Nintendo is saddled with the rep of catering
strictly to kids, and that whole Pokemon
                  animal isnÆt helping fix this rep. Gamers over sixteen
immediately view the Nintendo 64 as a
                  toy, and it probably doesnÆt help that the box calls it a
æfun machine.Æ Nintendo must spend the
                  extra cash for two campaigns: one to secure the kids'
market that they currently own, and one
                  to appeal to older gamers through hip and flip ads.

                  4. Pokemon. Like it or not, itÆs here to stay for a while,
and older gamers have to understand
                  that in the long run, it will help them. If the Dolphin
launches with a few Pokemon-themed
                  games, itÆs going to sell big. The more systems sold, the
more games made by third-party
                  manufacturers--the people that make the more mature titles
anyway. Nintendo needs to
                  capitalize on this unique phenom as much as possible, and
make sure that the PS2 does not,
                  in any way, get a foothold in the kids' market. ThatÆs the
easy battle, and they should win it
                  with aplomb. The hard part is in getting the big
kids--which is why number three is so
                  important.

                  5. Get those third parties back. Nobody likes to leave
money on the table. Just look at how
                  many companies are scrambling to get Dreamcast software
out the door. Nintendo needs to
                  approach the third parties immediately and do what no
company has ever done before:
                  disclose everything about the console. Every little trick,
routine and shortcut available. The
                  market will be won by having lots of good games, not lots
of good Nintendo-brand games and
                  a few average third-party titles. Willingness to give up
the goods will earn the support of the
                  third parties right off the bat, and if Nintendo can
honestly claim that all of the heavy-hitters
                  are backing them, they stand just as much a chance as the
PlayStation 2 (that means getting
                  Namco, too).

                  6. The art of war. Business is like battle, and if
Nintendo wants to succeed, they need to
                  zero in on SonyÆs weaknesses, and exploit them for all
they are worth. First off is the pricing
                  issue--undercut them as early as possible, by at least
fifty bucks, and theyÆll see staggering
                  sales. Sony is decidedly arrogant right nowù-not to say
they havenÆt earned a few bragging
                  rights (after all, they made gaming acceptable again). But
arrogance often leads to a lack of
                  innovation, so Nintendo should do everything in its power
to create games that Sony would
                  never dream of thinking up. ThatÆs how to defeat the big
guy; never let them see you coming.

                  7. Get that early buzz going! People are not buying
Dreamcast, because there is a promise
                  of something better just around the bend. Sure, theyÆre
missing out on some of the best
                  games available by doing so, but thatÆs just how people
are: they always focus on the Next
                  Big Thing, never on what's right in front of them.
Nintendo needs to sideswipe the incredible
                  momentum that Sony is building with a few jaw-dropping
screen shots. Example: hereÆs Sony
                  showing the 500th screen of Tekken for the PS2; suddenly
Nintendo comes with a surprise
                  left and three shots of a brand-new Zelda game. The crowd
goes bananas (and doesnÆt buy
                  a PlayStation 2). This time, itÆs Nintendo just around the
bend.

                  Can the Dolphin challenge the PlayStation 2 for position
of Market Leader? Will Nintendo
                  ever celebrate the 100 millionth console sold? ItÆs
certainly possible--and if any company is
                  hungry enough to do it, itÆs Nintendo. DonÆt count the
plumber out just yet; in fact, IÆd say heÆs
                  more than ready for the fight of his life. Round one
begins next year.


                                                                          .






                           Copyright ⌐1999 GameFan. All rights reserved.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:08:03 EST
From: "Justin Smith-Williams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games

Back in 97 their are a few games I can remember off the top of my head that
came out that I also enjoyed Mischief Makers, Mystical NInja64, DKR, and a
little game called Goldeneye.I personally likes the adventure mode they put
in the game to me it gave the game a little bit of personality that made me
like the characters a little bit more like the first time I heard the
Triceratops boss talk to the sastifaction of beating the crocidile boss and
when i first heard pipsy say I'm pipsy(that's my girl/mouse) I just thought
the adventure mode gave the single player mode more meat than most racers.



>From: Alex <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games
>Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 01:13:59 +1100
>
>At 08:14 02-12-99 EST, you wrote:
> >Just you think racing games don't belong in an adventure universe that's
> >your own oppinion and how can you say Nintendo just did that for
>marketing
> >purposes they released the game to release it.As far as people buying it
> >just because they needed a holiday title is nothing but pure b.s. myself
> >along with plenty of my friends,if not all, bought or recieved it for
> >christmas and enjoyed it emmensely and still pick it up every now then
>and
> >still enjoy the music alot.I guess you though Beetle Adventure Racing
>wasn't
> >good either but that game wasn't a holiday title and it sold quite well
>my
> >friend.So please make statements that actually have some truth to them
>and
> >make sense.
> >
>
>I know this is an old letter I'm replying to but I haven't checked my email
>recently as I've been living in reality for a couple of days.
>
>I think that exploration doesn't work in a racing universe. Racing games
>are
>based on speed. Speed works against exploration. That's why they don't go
>well together. I realise this is my opinion; that goes without saying. My
>opinions are reasoned. There are better racing games on the N64 (wave race,
>f-zero) and there are better exploration games (zelda). Rare didn't combine
>genres because they are eclectic, they just have no sense of direction.
>They
>just try to cram as many features into the game as they can. Much like a
>lot
>of other poor developers out there.
>
>You and your friends got DKR for christmas... think back to christmas 1997,
>were there any other alternatives? If DKR came out at another time in the
>year, or there was a better game out that christmas, its sales would not
>have been as high. You're right, I didn't really like BAR. I'm sure it sold
>well but not nearly as much as DKR.
>
>I do agree that some of the music in DKR was quite good. The volcano stage
>had nice music.
>
>[e-mail]
>
><insert witty .sig thing here>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:11:58 EST
From: "Justin Smith-Williams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] DK help needed

If that is the case than the entire series didn't continue off each
other.The very first Dk arcade game is very differebt from DKC and the one
on 64 wasn't meant to be a continuation of the DKC series that's why its
just DK64.


>From: Alex <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: [N64] DK help needed
>Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 01:32:48 +1100
>
>At 08:23 02-12-99 EST, you wrote:
> >It dosen't matter why they changed it in all the mario's except for
>mario64
> >you could throw fireballs but when they didn't add it in mario64 I didn't
> >hear any one complaing so why does it matter you can't jump on a beaver.
> >
> >
>
>It just shows that DK64 isn't really a continuation of the DK series. It's
>just another 3d platformer, only this time it features (marketable)
>characters from the DK series. Mario64 was the same in that it didn't need
>to star Mario, but the thing with that game is it's so good the gameplay
>stands on its own indepentant of such periphery.
>
>[e-mail]
>
><insert witty .sig thing here>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:15:34 EST
From: "Justin Smith-Williams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games

Scruples!!!!What in the hell is a srupple?In difference in oppinion my
friend RARE dosen't just try to stick to the same thing over they make a
variety of games like fighters,platformers,racers,fps,action shooters, and
Blast Corps.


>From: Alex <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: [N64] marketable games
>Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 01:41:24 +1100
>
>At 08:25 02-12-99 EST, you wrote:
> >THat is to you my friend I enjoyed all of those games and I think that
>RARE
> >is only getting better and better and if they keep on going  at the pace
> >that they're going I think one day they might surpass the almighty
> >development house of Nintendo.
> >
>
>I don't think RARE are losing their touch; they were over-rated from the
>start. They will never be better than NCL because they have no scruples.
>NOA
>made Rare their bitch. NOA makes Rare do all the dirty work releasing the
>kitsch while NCL's name remains untarnished. I think Perfect Dark will be
>very very good though.
>
>[e-mail]
>
><insert witty .sig thing here>
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