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Internet Message Format | 1999-01-27 | 54KB

From: "Jim Healis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) This is a test post...
Date: 20 Jan 1999 15:04:10 -0600

Testing 1...2...3...





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From: "Jim Healis" < [e-mail] >
Subject: (narml) Welcome!
Date: 21 Jan 1999 14:57:08 -0600

I would just like to send a brief welcome to those that have signed up
today.  If you have read the information that was sent to you then you know
what this list is for and how it will be run.

Please feel free to post any related information that you want!  Though the
posts will be moderated, I will make sure to allow a healthy exchange.
Remember that this list is for those that are at the point of filing the K-1
(or I-130) and beyond.  Some of the recent threads of information on RWL
about tax returns and document requirements are relevant to this list, but I
have yet to see many of the "old timers" join in the conversations.  So in
the coming days I will be sending email to them in hopes that they will join
the list and provide input, along with questions of their own.

I encourage everyone to provide the best possible answers you can when
replying to a post.  The more research that is done, the better.  I,
personally, am tired of hearing "Well, it happened to me so it will happen
to all of you," type of stuff.  I think that it doesn't take long to come up
with a well researched answer, and then converse until you have come to a
consensus.  I will make my best effort to personally answer any posts that
come on the list. So if you have something of interest go ahead and post!

I wish you all the best, if you have any questions please feel free to send
them to:
[e-mail].

Happy posting!

Jim
List Owner - NARML





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From: "Jim Healis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) REPOST: Welcome!
Date: 21 Jan 1999 20:13:41 -0600

I would just like to send a brief welcome to those that have signed up
today.  If you have read the information that was sent to you then you know
what this list is for and how it will be run.

Please feel free to post any related information that you want!  Though the
posts will be moderated, I will make sure to allow a healthy exchange.
Remember that this list is for those that are at the point of filing the K-1
(or I-130) and beyond.  Some of the recent threads of information on RWL
about tax returns and document requirements are relevant to this list, but I
have yet to see many of the "old timers" join in the conversations.  So in
the coming days I will be sending email to them in hopes that they will join
the list and provide input, along with questions of their own.

I encourage everyone to provide the best possible answers you can when
replying to a post.  The more research that is done, the better.  I,
personally, am tired of hearing "Well, it happened to me so it will happen
to all of you," type of stuff.  I think that it doesn't take long to come up
with a well researched answer, and then converse until you have come to a
consensus.  I will make my best effort to personally answer any posts that
come on the list. So if you have something of interest go ahead and post!

I wish you all the best, if you have any questions please feel free to send
them to:
[e-mail].

Happy posting!

Jim
List Owner - NARML





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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) Information
Date: 21 Jan 1999 22:53:29 EST

I'm probably in a slightly different situation than other guys, where I work
overseas, so I would marry my lady in Russia, then I can play with US
Immigration in getting all the paperwork filled out without a lot of
pressure.

Has anyone any experience in getting married in Russia, are all licenses
obtained through Moscow, and what papers do I have to bring into Russia.

Robert Drwila




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From: "Jim Healis" < [e-mail] >
Subject: RE: (narml) Information
Date: 22 Jan 1999 08:03:51 -0600

Robert,

I have not done this myself but I know that it falls under the I-130 visa
package.  As for papers that you should bring to Russia, I would include
your passport ( I hope you already have this with you ), a certified copy of
your birth certificate, any divorce decrees (as proof that you can legally
be married) and the forms for the I-130.

I am sure that I am missing something here, maybe some of our other list
members can fill in the blanks.  The I-130 package should outline, as well,
what you need to apply for that visa.  Also, check out the Moscow Embassy
web site, they have some valuable information on marrying a Russian national
in Russia.

http://www.usia.gov/posts/moscow.html

Good luck!
Jim

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent:    Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:53 PM

I'm probably in a slightly different situation than other guys, where I work
overseas, so I would marry my lady in Russia, then I can play with US
Immigration in getting all the paperwork filled out without a lot of
pressure.

Has anyone any experience in getting married in Russia, are all licenses
obtained through Moscow, and what papers do I have to bring into Russia.

Robert Drwila





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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (narml) REPOST: Welcome!
Date: 22 Jan 1999 10:20:17 EST

JIm, thanks for the info, I checked out the site and downloaded all the
forms
that would be required for an immigration package.  These were basically
from
a US standpoint for bringing someone directly back into the USA....

In my Case, I will be building a factory in Moldova and another in Oman, so
my
lady wouldn't be coming back to the USA any time right away. We would
actually
go to Moldova and to Oman to live. I have no difficulties in getting her a
visa going to Oman, plus since Moldova is former Soviet, she can freely go
there anyway.  So, the US procedure might be a bit of overplay as I can take
my time in requesting this at the US Embassy in Moldova or in Oman.. What I
am
more interested in in what the Russian laws are for a US person to marry a
russian female in a Russian service in Russia. The requirements may be
different in this case.   Robert Drwila




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From: [e-mail]
Date: 22 Jan 1999 09:04:19 -0700

Well, in that case you will want to check out the Russian Embassy in
Washington, D.C.  They will have the information that you need. Let me see
if I can find the URL...
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http://www.russianembassy.org/

There you go...

Jim


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From: "Larry Piechna" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) Marriage in June
Date: 22 Jan 1999 09:39:02 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I just became engaged to be married in June this year. I am wondering =
what is customary for the Groom to do or provide also what are some of =
the traditional marriage ceremonies like. I do not want to naive about =
Russian marriage rituals

Thanks=20
Larry

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I just became engaged to be married =
in June this=20
year. I am wondering what is customary for the Groom to do or provide =
also what=20
are some of the traditional marriage ceremonies like. I do not want to =
naive=20
about Russian marriage rituals</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE45EB.0B3F9520--





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From: "James K. Key" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (narml) REPOST: Welcome!
Date: 22 Jan 1999 11:52:21 -0800

Hi Bob!
    You can get married over there if you prepare for it.  It sounds like in
your case it would be best to do.  You must first have a non impediment to
marriage.  Having divorced on your passport is not enough.  you MUST have
your
divorce decree translated into Russian and have the whole document notarized
as
to the accuracy of translation by the State department ( You will need to
have
this if you try to get her into this country later)  You then have to have
this
Notarized by the appropriate embassy.  Since the breakup each republic likes
flexing it's beauracracy muscles.  She needs to have her divorce decree (if
she
has one translated and the translation notarized and then  notarized again
at
the MEC ( Ministry of interior)  She then has that Seal notarized at the
office
of External affairs.  You can then go to the ZAG office to get married.  She
will know where it is.  It is best to get married in the town or city of her
residence.  The process is usually about thirty days but i have heard of it
being done in 7!

Do Svidania!

Jim






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From: [e-mail]
Date: 22 Jan 1999 10:41:21 -0700

Well all, I finally got the G-325s back from my dear Olga, and as she
suspected there is a problem.  She completely filled out the form, but in
her typical writing fashion did not press hard enough for all the copies.
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I am tempted to retype a form for her, and then press over her signature on
the form so it goes through.  (I had her sign a few blank copies just in
case of mistakes)  Has anyone else run into this issue?  What have you done?

Jim


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From: "d j" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) Fingerprinting Finished:  One down      ? To Go
Date: 22 Jan 1999 12:25:44 PST

Hi all,

Well Natasha had her fingerprints done today for the I-485 (Adjustment
of Status). We were in and out in 30 minutes. This was a separate place,
not the INS office. Quick and painless. :)

We were given an expected notice date of June, so we're hoping that
maybe the interview will be coming soon.

By the way, we were married in August, and filed the papers in
September.

First step down, we have the EAD (Employment Authorization Document)
interview next month.

Natalya and Dave

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From: "d j" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) Re: Marriage in June
Date: 22 Jan 1999 12:33:38 PST

Congratulations Larry,

The only tradition I know of is when you hear people saying something
that sounds like "Gorka", this means the bride and groom must kiss.

Just like our tradition of the clinking glass sound.



>From: "Larry Piechna" <[e-mail]>
>I just became engaged to be married in June this year. I am wondering =
>what is customary for the Groom to do or provide also what are some of
=
>the traditional marriage ceremonies like. I do not want to naive about
=
>Russian marriage rituals


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) Forms okay... pictures on the way.
Date: 23 Jan 1999 20:31:00 -0700

Hi everyone!
Well, after talking to Olga today we worked out that I would just write over
what she put on the forms (or retype them).  She also told me that she would
send the pictures on Monday.  This was my snafu... I was so caught up in
getting the forms that I totally forgot about the pictures until after she
sent the forms.
Thankfully she dyed her hair back to blonde just before they were taken, so
when she lets her hair grow back to natural color it will actually look like
her.
As her sending the pictures... I told her to send the picture via normal air
mail.  She sent the forms by registered mail and they took forever.  She
said that if the pictures got lost who would be accountable.  My only
response to that was:  If they get lost what does it matter who is
accountable, they are still lost.  And if you send them by regular air mail
they get here nearly two weeks faster.
So, I assume that in three weeks I will have her pictures, my pictures, our
forms and the fee check all sent off to the INS.  All of this will happen
nearly 30 days prior to my third trip to Russia.  I can hardly wait to meet
her family.  They have already accepted me as their son-in-law.  Well...
I'll leave it at that for now.
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Anyone else have anything to share?

Jim


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From: "Dave and Natasha" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) Informal Introductions?
Date: 24 Jan 1999 05:02:53 PST

Hello,

Since we are a new list, I thought it would be a good idea for everyone
to just post a little blurb about yourself to the list.

Natalya and I have been married almost six months. She came here on a
K-1 visa, using the Moscow embassy. She's from Pervouralsk, which is
near Ekaterinburg. We live in New Jersey.

As I wrote in an earlier post, we're in the waiting stage for the EAD
and the AOS. So any advice from people ahead of us in the process would
be appreciated.

Just trying to get things rolling :)

Dave




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From: "James K. Key" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (narml) Jim and Larisa
Date: 24 Jan 1999 10:04:26 -0800

We are jim and Larisa.  I (Jim) am from Florida and Larisa is from
Sevastopol, Ukraine.  I started writing her on August 5, 98 and visited
her in November and December.  We became engaged on December 10, 98.  We
went through some of the hoops in Kiev and are still working on the
K-1.  Patience, patience , patience.  Planning to go back over in March
or April.





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From: [e-mail]
Date: 24 Jan 1999 13:11:39 -0700

[209.165.2.101])
    by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23828;
    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:26:33 -0800 (PST)
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A friend gave me Lena's address about nine months ago.  We began
corresponding through the mail and later through e-mail.

I sent her many pictures, she sent me a few blurry ones that didn't show
very well what she looked like.  We had a lot in common and I was very fond
of her, so I started talking to her about marriage.  She was against the
idea of coming to America, but I decided to visit her anyway.  She gave me
what she thought her clothes sizes were and I realized that she was very
fat, but I loved who she was on the inside.  I bought clothes for her and
went to visit her over Thanksgiving.

I was shocked when she met me in the airport.  She didn't look anything like
the pictures.  She was very slim and beautiful.  The clothes were way too
big.  We became engaged on Christmas after she had a chance to talk to her
parents.

Our package is ready to submit except for her visa photos.  She didn't have
them taken until after her parents approved and now we wait for the mail...
delays, delays.

We are using a lawyer for all of this, Lawrence Holmes.  I don't know much
about him, but he did the visa for a friend.  He seems to keep on top of it.
He has paralegals in Moscow who have called Lena several times and helped
her with the forms.

This is us.   http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/victorv/

Victor





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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) Re: Info on myself.
Date: 24 Jan 1999 15:21:47 EST

My name is Robert Drwila and I have been corresponding with Oksana who lives
in Saratov Russia since July of 1998, I met her in Moscow in November and
asked her to marry after I got back to the USA. We had discussed marriage
while I was with her. Including all the dramtic changes that would occur in
her life once it actually occurred.  I should be going back to Russia in
late
February after starting construction on a project in Oman and another in
Moldova  At that time, I will go through the process of marrying her in
Russia, then take her with me into Oman and Moldova.  I have a US
Immigration
package, but really won't probably do much with it as she would not be
coming
into the USA right away, actually, she doesn't want too.
What I suspect will happen is that by the time she first comes into the USA,
she would probably be pregnant or even have her first child.  That may
complicate US immigration issues or may simplify things as the US Embassys
in
Foreign Countries issue US passports to newborns. So when she arrived in the
USA for the first time, her baby would already have a US passport.

I am unsure of the process in getting married in Russia, but Oksana is
checking on the actual procedure within her city.  She has never been
married
and I am divorced. I have copies of my divorce and birth certificates.
Robert
Drwila




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From: [e-mail]
Date: 25 Jan 1999 06:10:50 -0700

<1479-24233>; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:43:46 -0500
Received: from hal ([194.226.120.224]) by max.net with SMTP id <1583-2035>;
Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:43:24 -0500
in the FSU
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Greetings All,

A few of you may get this as a crosspost as I'm addressing a question
of 2 lists. Sorry for any duplicates.

If you know you plan to marry a woman from the FSU or don't want to
make a big mistake in the process of finding out, please read on. I
hope to dispel some rumors and keep you from making some mistakes that
could really spoil your plans. If you care anything about the lady you
are writing, read carefully before you try to get her the business
visa, which you will fail at doing and in the process prevent her from
ever getting a visa without paying bribes and worse.

Dear fellow Americans (EU a bit further) - You have no choice. If you
want to bring a single woman to the US you will have to use the K-1
Visa.  It's plain and simple and there is no way around it. In order
for it to be approved you will need to actually meet the lady in
person.  Period. End of Story.

IMHO, the K-1 is the most ridiculous visa ever established. Virtually
any one with a minimum wage job can get one, then you have to get
married in 3 months. If someone told you that you had to marry the
girl next door 4 months after you met her you would say " get outta
here ". If you elect me congressman, I would push for a $20,000 bond
and allow the person who came to the US to stay for up to 2 years.
They would need to be a few stipulations, like having a baby doesn't
make you a citizen and so forth. Well that was a nice dream, back to
my post..

Now, there are some exceptions, but let me assure you they are 1 in
10,000 and you are not going to be dating the lady for whom it applies
to.

* Filthy Rich
* Perfect English
* Previous travel to the US

If you have $100,000 and would like me to tell you how to get her into
the US, that is another letter and a rather outlandish situation which
deserves little more mention than this

Things that don't work

* Getting married in her country
I'll explain how to do it if you write me, but don't unless you fully
understand the difference. I speak from personal experience. Upon
marriage you'll need to apply for a foreign spouse visa, a 2 year
wait.

* Making a letter of invitation on your company's letterhead
If she is good looking, single and not filthy rich or has not been to
the US before all you will succeed in doing is getting a little stamp
put in her passport that says she tried to get a visa and get her
blacklisted in the state department computers. It's a one year wait
after that and good odds she be refused again. You can really hurt
some poor lady with your lack of knowledge, Don't even try..

* Run for the Border
I am told that smuggling Russian girls over the border is a bit harder
now, the Mexican embassy doesn't issue visa so easily anymore and they
cord folks coming over the border now.

# EU
I got a letter from a gentleman in the UK saying most of my posts are
one-sided (American) and are offensive to EU'ers. So in all fairness,
and to rub the American's noses in their bureaucracy - The European
Union has a visa that allows for travel to all of it's member states.
Russians can get a tourist visa to Greece and travel to any of the EU
countries. You never hear EU'ers asking how to get a visa.. This
probably explains why out of the 20 folks that have come to Gomel in
the last year, none of them are from the EU.

As for the French Gentleman who complains that we are too American.
Don't get me wrong, but isn't it pretty typical for the French to
complain about Americans? <grin>(Can the French take a joke? )

# What you need to get married in the FSU
AFAIK:
A visa longer than 30 days
A notarized copy of your passport translated into Russian
A notarized copy of any divorce documents translated into Russian
An International AIDS certificate (everywhere in FSU?)
A letter from your embassy stating you are not married

You'll need to get this all approved at the Ministry of Internal
affairs where the signatures are checked to verify they are real, and
you'll need to fill out a form or two while your there.
Take all this to the ZAKS and get scheduled for a date at least 30
days off.

I am forwarding a post that tells a bit of what to expect in a Russian
wedding.

Best Wishes,
David

P.S.
You can read more written by me by visiting my archive
Http://www.listbot.com/archive/ryerose.by







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From: [e-mail]
Date: 25 Jan 1999 06:12:09 -0700

<1426-24738>; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:43:47 -0500
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Here is a old post to "soulmates" about what a Russian wedding is
like. As I read it again, I get the feeling it was just a big party.

-----Original Message-----


US/CIS/European Soulmates


Hello Steve,

Russian Marriages as American Marriages vary quite a bit, I got
married and I'll give you a play by play if it's not too boring.


Engagement? What Engagement? We went and signed up at "ZAKS", the
marriage registration hall. There's a month wait by law from the
application
to the actual reading of the marriage rites.

The next month was like this incredible flurry on the behalf of Luda
and her mother. All the choices and things like that, counting people
sending invitations  etc. Me, I went on about my merry way. I bought a
2 part wedding ring and gave the one part to her, she picked out her
own ring and bought mine as well. (Strange yes?) She wanted to,
what I am going to do Argue? In American tradition she wore a
engagement ring for a month.

The night before the wedding I went out and drank lots of beer,
Ludmila never stayed at my apartment,  our wedding night was
the first time.

My job was to do as the Russians with all my Russian friends,
well, sorry I can drink about so much vodka, then... well Let's
just say it was a good thing I didn't have to arrive with the
motorcade until 11:00 am the next morning (Saturday).
The next morning, my best man and I managed to get ties
on and call the drivers.  They get there and it's a fleet of
Mercedes and these big Volgas, all dressed up for a
wedding. The Russians are a bit more sophisticated about
the cars, none of the cardboard JUST MARRIED signs
or beer cans, the motorcade is done in Ribbons and on
the 2 lead cars there are a pair of Joined Rings, like an
8 on it's side.

We pull up to Ludmila's apartment, and I don't get let into the
apartment by her best friend and instead I am told I would
have to bribe my way in, I started with sunflower seeds, cheap
cigarettes (grin) and got by with a box of chocolates, but that
was just the start. I then had to prove that I knew who
she was. I was forced to explain that I knew her eye color,
could identify her lipstick kiss on a paper with a dozen
girls kisses on it, etc etc..

When I proved I knew who I came for they let me see her.
Then we opened champagne and toasted then hit the road.
Before the wedding, the guys ride in the first car, the ladies
in the 2'nd and then everyone else. We got to ZAKS
and went to separate little rooms, the girls in one and the
guys in the other. Well, there's a little carry around bar and
so it was a good chance for some photo ops and more
drinking. (No I was not drunk at my wedding)

Time came and we were called for the reading, We go into
the big hall and there is a lady standing at a table in the
middle of the room, all the folks who came stand along
side in a single row and some mad organist belts
off some faintly recognizable elevator music Beatles
tune. Well the lady starts off by telling us about the
family and how marriage is the bond and all, then down
to the nitty gritty. Do take her for better and for worse,
Yes, And him, for better or for worse? Yes. Put the ring
on and then sign here, and the witnesses here,
Your married and may kiss the bride. 10
Minutes later and you can throw away you little
black book.

Funny, mom and dad didn't come, in fact of the 20
people who where at the reading, none of them
were over 35. Everyone else was at the restaurant
already.

We'll After you get some photos taken (very soviet) you
get shuttled off to another room where someone will
spill the champagne and someone else drops a
glass, just to make sure everything gets of to a
good start, kill the bottle and it's off in the motorcade.
You can imagine, this is rather odd, I tried
to explain the advantages of an American wedding
(you split right away on your honeymoon), to no avail.


At this point the motorcade drives around and you
start laying flowers on all these monuments, then a
quick shot out of town to the banks of the river. Here
it's a quick picnic and 3 rounds for all. I think I liked
this part the best, it was just about 15 of us, out on
the banks of the river celebrating with a private
toast out from the watchful eye of society.

Back into town and to the restaurant where I had
eaten dinner for the year before, I knew all the
waitresses and the managers so we had our
way with the building. We rented the place out,
and all of Luda's relatives, (80 something) and
a few of my colleagues from work where in attendance.
Everyone was already there waiting our arrival.

When we got there Luda and myself greeted all
the guests, it took a good long while. Then Mom
and Dad came and wished us the best, we kissed an
icon, and they sprinkled coins on us. Then it came time
to decide who got to wear the pants in the family.
I clarified several time and this is the deal. You
are brought a big loaf of bread,  if you have seen
the ornamental loafs than you know what I'm talking
about. The goal here is to bite of the larger
piece.

Well I bit as much at I could, I don't think I have ever
taken such a large bite in my life before that bread.
Needless to say I won, and bit so much I had a very
hard time even chewing. Yes, as you can expect, I
took this loaf of bread to the wood factory and had
it dried and sealed in laquer for proof as needed in
the future. It's sitting tucked away in the shelf and
we still get a kick out of it when we see it.

Well it's about 3 pm now, and things are well on their
way. If Russians know  how to do anything they know
how to party. This entire affair is extremely tiring, and
I managed to keep up with the kinfolk up until about 11
pm, when they started singing old songs. We bailed
out and went home as a couple for the first time.
Luda had already brought a pillow from home, another
tradition, It was the largest pillow ever to placed at the head of a
bed, if it would be any larger I would be calling it a bean bag now.

The next day, we come back to our continuing party, it's already at
the folks flat and a good 24hrs strong. The tables at the wedding were
so full we had leftover for a week, Day 2 is a the challenging one.
Here, starting at noon, go at least another 12 hours. Only after
this test of fire can you say you have had a Russian Wedding.
I was much too tired, and we had planned to spend the next
week together. We stayed at home on our honeymoon,
and I think we have just made our home our permanent
honeymoon.  I week later I was sent off to work in Chechnya.

Another thing that is pretty scary, something they don't warn you
about, is once they move in, they take it upon themselves to "put the
household in order" My suggestion is to Give in, and
get used to it <grin>.

Best of luck to you and yours,
David

















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From: [e-mail]
Date: 25 Jan 1999 07:02:41 -0700

<891-4529>; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:48:32 -0500
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-----Original Message-----

>What I suspect will happen is that by the time she first comes into the
USA,
>she would probably be pregnant or even have her first child.  That may
>complicate US immigration issues or may simplify things as the US Embassys
>in
>Foreign Countries issue US passports to newborns. So when she arrived in
the
>USA for the first time, her baby would already have a US passport.

Hi Robert,
You are correct with the US embassy issuing a passport to any child of
yours.  It's a matter of bringing the child before the Consul of which ever
embassy so they can look at it (?? Can you tell a child's parents by
looking at it?? Not always..) signing the affidavit of support, 2 photos
and $50. You're child will leave with American citizenship.  As for your
wife, you'll need to get her a  foreign spouse visa if you are making the
move to the US permanently. that's about 2 years at the moment.

You are also correct about complicating things. You may be able to get her
a visitors visa. To do this you would need to show that she intends on
returning. If she will be a homemaker and dependant on your income, a
contract or proof of continuing employment overseas for yourself may be
enough for that. The important thing here is that she return regardless.
You will not want to make an attempt to stay in the US on such a visa
without being ready to pay a good attorney to handle your case, even then
they deport people. It would be a black mark on her state dept record.

If she returns from the US on a visitors visa she will have no problem
going to and from the US in the future. I think visas of up to a year are
available, it may be 2, I'm not sure as I am not a visa specialist, I just
play one on the internet.

If your work requires you to travel frequently and you will want to take
your wife with you there is a stipulation on the immigration visa's that
you need to plan for. Once you move back to the US with her it will take
about 6 months to get her residency(?time). She will still have her
national passport and to leave the US will require an exit visa. The exit
visa in valid for multiple entries to and from the US, but a stay of more
than 6 months overseas will set the clock back on her application for
citizenship, and she will need to wait 2 years from her last entry into the
US before she can apply for citizenship.

This complexity and the various time frame stipulations are the main reason
that Ludmila and myself have not made any applications to the US embassy
for a visa of any type. I am a US embassy warden for 1/5th of Belarus and
am confident that we can get a visitor visa.

I have not made the US passport for our son. I will take Ludmila to the US
on a visitor visa and leave my son here with Mom and Dad for a few weeks.
Our property, business and the fact we are leaving my son behind for a
short trip will be enough, after that I will make a passport for my son and
we will be able to travel to the US for a greater length of time. That
is... If I can talk my wife into it.

Best Wishes
David Stickney







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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) Email headers...
Date: 25 Jan 1999 07:05:13 -0700

Sorry all for the email headers showing up in the list posts.  I am
still trying to figure out if this is a problem with majordomo or my
email program.
Sender: [e-mail]
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Reply-To: narml

Jim
List Owner


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) posting to the list
Date: 25 Jan 1999 09:03:59 -0700

Please remember to use the [e-mail] address when posting to
the list.  When using the [e-mail] address it does not
get posted.
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Reply-To: narml

Thank you,

Jim - List Owner


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) Fwd: RE: Reply from David Stickley to Robert Drwila
Date: 25 Jan 1999 11:30:48 EST

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_917281849_boundary
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I meant to post this, but accidentally send it just to JIM instead of to the
list

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Return-path: <[e-mail]>
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Its me Robert;

Thanks for the confirmation on getting a passport for a newborn child.

In my work, I am President and owner of the company. Again I build turn-key
Pharmaceutical Manufacturing factories only overseas.  They are all financed
through the Export - Import Bank of the USA. All goods and services must
come
from the USA. The projects vary in size from $13.5 million USD to $46
Million
USD and take from 12 - 24 months to complete, then I help run the plants for
10 years minimum thereafter. I have plants contracted for in Brazil,
Moldova,
Oman, Egypt and India starting in 1999. I get into the USA to check on a
small
staff for about a week every month, and generate lots of air miles.

I am probably in a completely different situation than most men seeking to
marry a Russian Woman.  My lady, Oksana, from Saratov, Russia, actually
doesn't want to be a permanent resident of the USA.  The US Culture is very
different from what she is used to and she has expressed wanting to come
into
the USA to visit DisneyLand and perhaps go shopping so visitor status would
be
fine with her for now.... later on, it might be different.  I am in good
shape
and 46 y.o. and she is 29 y.o.  She wants to be married in Russia, because
this is where her friends and relatives are and this is her wedding really
not
mine - I'm the groom, but just a fixture. By being married in Russia, also,
she has the opportunity to display her "catch" to all her family and
relatives
and friends. She says if we are married in the USA, only my side would be
there and it would be uncomfortable for her, or it would be by a justice of
the peace and no one would be there. So, I'll get married in Russia by
whatever means it takes ....30 days, 2 months, 4 months ??? who knows......

I enjoyed your description of a Russian Wedding, I will have to send it off
to
Oksana to read.

I will be putting up a business website soon and would like to link your
ryerose site to it if its OK with you - we can talk about it later...

plus if when the project in Moldova gets going maybe there is some
opportunity
for obtaining visas for people as I could employ them in Moldova and bring
them to the USA for training. I could actually probably do that for mylady
Oksana, as my employee, maybe she could get a business visa to go to the USA
for training on occassions.  I think I'll take my time on filing the US
forms.

Robert Drwila

--part0_917281849_boundary--




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) Re: Reply of David to Robert Drwila
Date: 25 Jan 1999 09:43:18 -0700

[Sorry for the technical issues on the list today guys, I'm trying to work
it out with the server admins - Jim]
Its me Robert;
Thanks for the confirmation on getting a passport for a newborn child.
In my work, I am President and owner of the company. Again I build turn-key
Pharmaceutical Manufacturing factories only overseas.  They are all financed
through the Export - Import Bank of the USA. All goods and services must
come from the USA. The projects vary in size from $13.5 million USD to $46
Million USD and take from 12 - 24 months to complete, then I help run the
plants for 10 years minimum thereafter. I have plants contracted for in
Brazil, Moldova, Oman, Egypt and India starting in 1999. I get into the USA
to check on a small staff for about a week every month, and generate lots of
air miles.
I am probably in a completely different situation than most men seeking to
marry a Russian Woman.  My lady, Oksana, from Saratov, Russia, actually
doesn't want to be a permanent resident of the USA.  The US Culture is very
different from what she is used to and she has expressed wanting to come
into the USA to visit DisneyLand and perhaps go shopping so visitor status
would be fine with her for now.... later on, it might be different.  I am in
good shape and 46 y.o. and she is 29 y.o.  She wants to be married in
Russia, because this is where her friends and relatives are and this is her
wedding really not mine - I'm the groom, but just a fixture. By being
married in Russia, also, she has the opportunity to display her "catch" to
all her family and relatives and friends. She says if we are married in the
USA, only my side would be there and it would be uncomfortable for her, or
it would be by a justice of the peace and no one would be there. So, I'll
get married in Russia by whatever means it takes ....30 days, 2 months, 4
months ??? who knows......
I enjoyed your description of a Russian Wedding, I will have to send it off
to Oksana to read.
I will be putting up a business website soon and would like to link your
ryerose site to it if its OK with you - we can talk about it later...
plus if when the project in Moldova gets going maybe there is some
opportunity for obtaining visas for people as I could employ them in Moldova
and bring them to the USA for training. I could actually probably do that
for mylady Oksana, as my employee, maybe she could get a business visa to go
to the USA for training on occassions.  I think I'll take my time on filing
the US forms.
Robert Drwila
Sender: [e-mail]
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Reply-To: narml



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: 27 Jan 1999 06:02:50 -0700

Microsoft SMTPSVC;
     Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:20:59 -0800
X-Sender: [e-mail]
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Hello all;

My name is Cliff Bailey, I live in Houston Texas, but will be relocating to
Huntsville Alabama in about a month. I'm an electrical engineer,
specializing in telephony computer mainframes. I am also an avid amateur
photographer (particularly old churches).  I first became interested in
Russia in 1982 when I received a coffee table book titled "A Day In Russia"
for Christmas. I made my first trip in April 1996. Being happily single, I
was not really looking for a wife, but fate lead me to Victoria Poplova. We
wrote to each other for about six months, but I wasn't real happy with our
correspondence. So in Janurary, 1997 I tool a leave of absence from work
and went back to the Motherland. We spent two months together and decided
that we were in love and wanted to spend the rest of our lives
together.After I returned to the States, We continued to write to each
other. I went back three more times to visit, Vica wanted to finish her
Ph.d in psychology before coming to America. In Sept. 1998, I went back to
Rostov and we filled out the K-1 paperwork and she arrived in Houston on
December 16, 1998. We plan to be married on Feb. 14 in Crested Butte
Colorado.  Vica is 32 years old and I am 42 years old, nether of us have
ever been married before and do not have any children but do plan on having
several.

Cliff Bailey =20


Privet
 I an Victoria Poplova. I make Clifford let me to write this, I am happy to
marry Clifford, I love him and he needs my therapys. {this is joke} I hope
to know every body more in the future

Spacibo
Vica




[e-mail]=A0=A0=A0   0=BF0=20








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (narml) list rules
Date: 28 Jan 1999 10:03:49 -0700

I just received a message from a non subscriber that stated the rule about
active participation was insane.  My opinion is that anyone who does not
post at least once a month (even is only to say that you are still working
on getting the visa or that your marriage is going great), is not interested
in keeping contact with other couples.
Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: narml

Now, I am open minded and always open to suggestions.  If I hear that
members of the list do not approve of this guideline or you have suggestions
for modifying it, please let me know.  This list is in its infancy, and I
want to have as much input about its development as you wish to provide.

Jim - List Owner


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From: [e-mail]
Date: 28 Jan 1999 10:38:05 -0700

[209.52.160.212]) by vector.intergate.ca (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27590
for <[e-mail]>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:17:05 -0800 (PST)
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Greeting to all,
My name is John Babor and I am on the list of last week.  I enjoy it
very much. It has been very eye opening for me.  I am currently in
contact with a 19 year old sensational Russian women from Khabarovsk
(how do you say that anyways?)  She is in university there, but will be
in Alaska this September.  I imagine it will be on some kind of student
visa or what have you.  Anybody know anything about the rules concerning
this type of visa and any future freedoms or restrictions that she will
have because of obtaining this visa?  I am in Canada, and Alaska is the
US of A so this could be a good thing or a bad thing. Let me know what
you think please.
John Babor




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From: "Jim Healis" <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Jan 1999 12:05:23 -0600

From [e-mail] Thu Jan 28 10:48:16 1999
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A Student visa does not restrict a girl in the future from anything..It
actually helps because if she goes back to her country, the US actually
looks
at her in a better light, when she wants to return into US or Canada.  FRom
what I hear, its a little easier to bring a Russian into Canada than into
the
USA.

Robert Drwila




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