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mobility-digest        Friday, February 5 1999        Volume 01 : Number 328



Re: (mobility)@@ evil ninja moby the non-vegan
(mobility) if at first you don't succeed
(mobility) Re: mobility-digest V1 #327
Re: (mobility) if at first you don't succeed
(mobility) Re: dark smoky venue
[none]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:59:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tim Beecher <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility)@@ evil ninja moby the non-vegan

Your sentiments on this issue, are mine exactly -
technically I'm not a vegetarian. However, I don't HAVE to
inflict cruelty, by killing anything to survive, so I don't
buy or eat meat. Shit! I forgot, I'm not supposed to
mention it. Okay I'm learning, I've stopped myself! I'll
reply privately to these issues myself. However, I've no
problem with others openly discussing this, but others on
this list may have!? I refrain.

Good points though Paul.

TMB

On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 03:59:22 -0800 "Dr. Killpatient"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> First I'd like to say thanks to kelbert, morgan and tim for the
> encouraging words and great outlook on the whole issue.
>
> I'd like to make it clear that this was NOT a moral decision,
> and I'm not going to pretend it was- so the lecures on morality
> and integrity seem ridiculous (talk to the hand)
>
> I see many things wrong with the way in which the meat and dairy
> industry do things and I agree that things should not be that way
> and generally boycotting the products is a good way to try to make
> yourself feel like you are making a difference, but fundamentally
> I don't have a problem with eating flesh and I think that it is a
> natural thing to happen, we are- as humans- designed to be omnivores.
> I love animals, but if my survival depended on it I would certainly
> kill a chicken. Let me explain a few things about the way I see it...
>
> It is mostly nature itself which convinces me that predators have a right
> to exist just as much as non-violent herbivores. After all what do you
> propose we do with cats and dogs? Get rid of them? Because they count on
> US for their food and they absolutely could not survive as vegans.
> Funny thing, the two dogs in my family are surprisingly positive about
> eating veggies. But they could not ever survive on veggies and grains alone,
> thier bodies are designed to injest meat. I feed my cats peas and corn now
> and then, and some of them eat some of it, but not much...the dogs however
> can eat full bowls of raw veggies! They are not quite normal, they will also
> eat the horse's food if I give it to them and they will beg for garlic!
>
> Anyway, I de-sensitised myself to the natural order of predator and prey
> by having 2 buramese pythons as pets for a couple years. If you think your
> slaughterhouse footage would shock me you are most likely wrong, it is often
> wrong and inhumane treatment, but the violence and horror of a python eating
> an innocent bunny wabbit right before your very eyes can be just as graphic.
> I've seen eyeballs pop out, blood squirt all over the cage and listened to
> many rabbit's scream bloody murder (yes, rabbit's really do scream)
>
> Here is the thing- the snakes would certainly die if it did not have live prey
> to feast upon. Snakes eat zero percent veggies or plant life. In fact they won't
> even touch a meal unless it is alive and they kill it themselves.
> These snakes are powerful, I have been bitten so I can tell you they can crush
> bones with the power of their jaws. They were fed smaller things like mice and
> rats when they were younger, but when they were at a length of eight feet
> feeding
> them rats would have been a daily thing, and in nature they would have certainly
> been eating larger prey. It was sad buying rabbits knowing they would die,
> I nearly cried many times but I got over it because I had to. I learned alot
> about nature with these snakes and I see things differently because of it I'm
> sure.
> I have a hundred snake stories, but I'll spare you sensitrive types any more
> horror.
>
> I don't think eating flesh in itself it an issue of right or wrong. I support
> anyone
> who does not eat meat for moral reasons, but I'm not going to listen to any
> rants
> about how they are right and I am wrong- that is like arguing about religion.
> I can't help but think what would happen if the militant vegans of the world
> somehow gained power making meat an illegal criminal offense like alcohol was
> during prohibition. If you think that's a good idea then check your head because
> that's going way to far ok?
>
> My theory on why humans are not herbivores: winter.
>
> In order to survive the winter when no vegatation is growing humans had to adapt
> to eat meat to survive the ice age. If you were trapped in the mountains of
> Alaska
> for the winter and let's say some raccoons ate all of your dried veggies and
> grains,
> you would die unless you hunted an animal and ate it. When it comes down to that
> if you are willing to die for it, then you are hard core totally moral.
> I would eat the damn rabbit myself.
>
> Look at the movie "Alive". It's not just any movie, there is a deeper story
> behind that and I can nearly think about it every day and not be sure what is
> right and what is wrong, but just like those people I believe I would choose
> the same thing they did which was to stay ALIVE. Maybe reflect on it and think
> about
> how wrong it was or something, but alive none the less. Starvation must be
> one of the worst possible ways to die, the torture getting worse everyday. If
> you
> had a way out, after a few days or a week you would certainly take it.
> Vegans, if you had a gun maybe that would be the easy way out for you to
> spare your conscience- but if not I don't think many humans could endure the
> torture of starving to death.
>
> People are weird. For instance I have a friend who will rant on forever about
> how zoos are evil and animals should never be kept in captivity, all the while
> he has no problem with taking a gun and shooting a deer or moose hunting.
> whatever, you can't make everyone happy!
>
> I wish I could try to elaborate more, but this has been enough for me!
> I feed my cats food with animal products in it everyday, so having prime
> rib a couple times a year isn't going to plague my conscience.
>
> I did it because I want to be as healthy as possible and I have not had any
> problems
> at all with craving meat. I don't miss it at all and not because I hate it,
> I just don't notice it not being there- it's no problem. I thought it would be
> very hard.
>
> Disclaimer: I know at least ten vegans and I'm not ignorant on any of the
> issues here, I just have a different feeling on the whole thing.
> My father recently became fully vegan and it saved his life, he was diebetic
> before the change and now he's fine! This certainly had an impact on me,
> mostly "if he could do it, I CERTAINLY could"
> My girfriend (might as well be wife) is cutting out most meat, but not like me
> so that's hard to deal with, but it's going ok because she only eats meat
> with lunch at work when I'm not around, we have vegitarian meals for dinner.
>
> Also, I have been into herbal supplements for many years and have found
> alot of positive reactions from certain herbs. So far after 33 days of
> being veggie I can say I feel much healthier than before. Now I just need
> to get more exercise!
>
> now that is a post, eh?
> paul
>
>
- ----------------------
Tim Beecher
Cranfield University
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 06:14:24 PST
From: "Steve Giles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) if at first you don't succeed

I sent this yesterday morning but it never went through...
This place is bipolar, 50 messages one day, 10 the next.
OK, once again...

Some random thoughts....

I heard Demons & Horses for the first time yesterday evening. I was
reading a book so I only had part of my attention directed towards it.
As Dan said, they are repetitive, but not monotonous. When your head is
between two speakers you can hear the minutae very clearly. Anyways, I
find it interesting how I can be paying little attention to a song yet
it still has a hold on me. Demons found a track in my mind and settled
in there without my knowing it, so that when something did change in the
song, some invisible rhythym inside me changed too and my mood changed,
very subtly. It's like having a secondary pulse. There are these train
horn type noises that show 2 or 3 times in Demons that "woke" me. Horses
reminds my of the Dirty Hypo mix of Hymn a little bit. I like these
tracks. They make me physically comfortable.

Moby live: I've only seen one incarnation (twice), as you put it, but I
enjoyed the outdoor show more simply because it was outside, the setting
was a courtyard surrounded by brick dorms, there were trees, and the
weather was absolutely gorgeous. 70 degress and breezy, partly cloudy,
yum yum. Moby opened with Ah-Ah as usual, and Pablo was there to shred
bongo. The energy you expect was there, as usual. That show was summer
98, the other time I saw Moby was with Juno Reactor in a dark, smoky
venue, which was also fun, but not as comfortable. My energy and
enthusiasm were not as great, either. That was late 97. I'd like to see
his DJ set.

I found and ordered "I Talk To The Wind". It took me forever to find it,
it's a UK promo only, or a very scarce release. According to "they",
these are some of the best remixes Moby has done. Who can tell me more?

- -S

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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: 5 Feb 1999 09:18:18 -0600
From: "April Kilduff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Re: mobility-digest V1 #327

                      RE>mobility-digest V1 #327                   2/5/99

Let me explain a few things about the way I see it...

My theory on why humans are not herbivores: winter.

In order to survive the winter when no vegatation is growing humans had to
adapt
to eat meat to survive the ice age.
Vegans, if you had a gun maybe that would be the easy way out for you to
spare your conscience-

i haven't posted in a while, but i felt compelled to respond to this, and not
in a nasty-let's-start-a-big-argument type of way. just some thoughts i have
when i hear this sort of reasoning. i'll keep it simple:

first, yes, our bodies are designed to ingest both plant and animal, however,
our minds have the ability to rationalize a more humane choice. one of the
benefits of being at the top of the food chain is that we can make such a
choice for ourselves.

second, if it came down to a matter of survival i would eat meat (i'm a vegan)
and i would shoot a bear that was attacking me because i'd do the same in the
name of self-defense if the attacker was human. BUT, i feel safe in assuming
that those of us on this internet list do not live our lives day-to-day in a
survival mode. people who are legitimately trapped in poverty and starvation
should take what they can get, but i know my life isn't about survival, it's
about the maintanence of a lifestyle. that's where the choice comes in.

it's quite possible your vegan friends have expressed these ideas to you
already, but i was moved to respond by your post.

good day,
april.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:51:10 +0000
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) if at first you don't succeed

 The energy you expect was there, as usual. That show was summer
98, the other time I saw Moby was with Juno Reactor in a dark, smoky
venue, which was also fun, but not as comfortable. My energy and
enthusiasm were not as great, either.

I think that's what I loved about his show -the energy unbelievable.

Ed

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:34:14 GMT
From: "Shinkuro Katsumi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Re: dark smoky venue

Ed said:

Moby was with Juno Reactor in a dark, smoky venue, which was also fun,
but not as comfortable. My energy and
>enthusiasm were not as great, either.

Was this @ the House of Blues in Chicago?




______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:51:57 -0800 (PST)
From: BRIAN HOVEY <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

Moby
Well its come up so many times that people Love Moby but dont know the
back round behind the man.
Well here it is ALL of it.

enjoy



Occupation: Contemporary dance music, DJ

Personal Information Born Richard Melville Hall, September 11, 1965,
in Darien, CT.

                 Education
                 Attended University of Connecticut
(one source says State University of                  New York at
Purchase), c. 1980s.

Career
Musician and performer, c. late 1970s--. Played in bands the Vatican
Commandos and AWOL, among others, 1983-84; worked as DJ at Club Mars,
New York City, c. 1980s; remixed recordings by Michael Jackson, Brian
Eno,Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode, the B-52's, and others, c. 1980s--;
recorded
singles for Instinct label under a variety of names, including Voodoo
Child,Barracuda, and Mindwave, 1990-92; appeared on album Bloodline by
Recoil,
1992; signed with Elektra Records and released Move EP, 1993; started
Trophy Records label, c. 1990s.

                 Addresses
Home--New York, NY. Record company--Elektra Records, 75 Rockefeller
Plaza, New York, NY 10019; or 345 North Maple Dr., Suite 123, Beverly
Hills,
CA 90210. Websites--The Ultimate Moby Page:
                 http://mindvox.phantom.com/hymn/moby.html.

"The best way to communicate should be banging on a drum and
screaming," said techno's best-known performer, Moby, in Rolling
Stone, "but the best way
I've found to reach people is through plastic equipment. I like that
irony." The soft-spoken but passionate and driven artist has won
universal accolades from critics for investing the frequently
anonymous electronic dance music genre with soul and spirit. "By
tucking tangible emotion into the music's mechanized grandeur,"
observed Rolling Stone writer Lorraine Ali, "he makes techno
personable, approachable and alive." An unorthodox Christian
vegetarian, Moby
has also seized every opportunity to trumpet his views on the
environment and other issues; the title of his widely praised album
Everything Is Wrong pretty
much encapsulates his view of the modern era.

He was born Richard Melville Hall to a professional couple in
Connecticut; a great-great grandnephew of famed nineteenth-century
writer Herman Melville, he
was given the nickname Moby after the novelist's most celebrated work,
Moby Dick. His father died when Moby was only two--his parents were
planning to
divorce--and he was shuttled between the apartment of his
struggling-musician mother and his upper-crust grandparents. "I was
torn between the two," he said
 "and I knew they were both weird. I wasn't brought up with this
paradigm of how to live. So now I'm like, 'Anything goes.'" His mother
worked as a secretary by day and at night played keyboards in a band.

Moby began making music at a young age; by his tenth year he'd
discovered pot and hard rock. A few years later came the
anti-authoritarian anthems of
punk, by which point Moby disdained drugs and booze and advocated a
sober lifestyle as "a rejection of decadent high-school values." The
confusion and pain
of his growing up fueled his development as an artist. "A lot of what
drives me to create is a feeling of inadequacy," he told Spin.
"Growing up a latch-key child, I spent a lot of time by myself. I
wasn't good-looking. I wasn't good at sports."

During his brief college career Moby dove into the twin pools of
philosophy and alcohol; he also played in a band influenced by
post-punk British rock. He
recorded indie singles with punkers the Vatican Commandos and the Pork
Guys, as well as noise bands Shopwell and Peanuts. Ultimately,
however, he
dropped out and underwent a new series of transformations. Paramount
among them was his becoming a Christian. Though he has never
identified himself with a particular church or sect and has been
harshly critical of religious
conservatives, Moby has often detailed the tenets of his faith in
interviews. "I'm
not a cultural Christian," he insisted in Rolling Stone, "but I love
Christ. I try to
live up to his teachings but fail all the time. It's this yardstick
that I hold up to my life that I can never, never live up to. It's
more interesting than frustrating." His religious awakening
accompanied a decision to give up not only drugs and
booze but also meat and other animal products, and his advocacy of
vegetarianism seems at times even more vehement than his Christian
proselytizing.

Moby's newfound clean lifestyle coincided with his discovery of dance
culture,which was in the early-to-mid-1980s still an underground
phenomenon. "When I first got into it--when it was primarily a bastion
of gay, black culture--it was so
foreign and viscerally satisfying," he recalled in the Rolling Stone
interview. Moby was about 19 when he began working as a club DJ in
Port Chester,
New York. He moved on to New York City--ground zero of the U.S. dance
music scene--and began working the turntables at the popular club
Mars. Even so, as
he related in Spin, he hardly felt at home: "I spun records for rap
stars Run-D.M.C., Big Daddy Kane, pop legend and actress Cher;
everybody went through there, but I never felt like I fit in. I didn't
know how to dress. I didn't even know where to buy my records." He hid
behind a variety of DJ nicknames,among them Barracuda, Mindstorm, and
Voodoo Child.

By 1990 Moby was making records for the Instinct label; his eclectic,
original approach soon acquired a buzz. After a while pop luminaries
like Michael Jackson and producer Brian Eno approached him to remix
some of their material. But it wasn't until Move, his 1993 debut for
Elektra Records, that his reputation spread outside the hippest music
circles. Soon he was winning fans who otherwise disliked techno,
ambient, and other new dance music forms,even though many on the dance
scene regarded him as their brightest hope.

Moby's appeal derived in part from his refusal to honor musical
boundaries."Juxtaposition and hybridization is where newness comes
from," he insisted in
Spin. "It's where jazz came from, it's how rock 'n' roll was invented,
it's where all great culture comes from. Putting things together that
haven't been together before. That's invention, that's progress." In
Rolling Stone, Moby derided "this pernicious tribal mentality we all
have" that separates fans of different kinds of music. "We desperately
seek out a tribe with
which we can align and identify ourselves at the expense of all the
other tribes.Defining yourself as a white supremacist and saying 'I
hate techno' are--in very broad terms--the same thing to me. It's
exclusionary, and it's wrong."

Indeed, Moby began to feel that as far as modern life was concerned,
everything was wrong. The phrase resonated so much for him as he
studied the folly and
waste of human societies-- particularly the U.S.--that he decided to
use it as the title of his next album. Released in 1995, Everything Is
Wrong garnered
rapturous reviews. "Moby has the right idea about dance music--it's
whatever moves you wherever you feel it," enthused Rolling Stone,
which declared that
the album "throbs with all the kick and courage of his
contradictions." Ali,reviewing the disc for the Los Angeles Times,
deemed it "one of the most
gripping collections of the year."

The album embraces a striking range of styles, from frantic jungle
grooves to speedmetal to evocative, neoclassical keyboard excursions.
"I think it'd be very
confusing to be a Moby fan," he mused in Rolling Stone, "though from
an emotional perspective it makes sense." Moby acknowledged that his
success would cause defenders of dance music's underground status to
regard him as a sellout. At the same time, he expressed
dissatisfaction with the "emotionless,
featureless, personalityless" quality he detected in much techno. His
own
concerts saw him rocking out on guitar to classic rock covers, kicking
over equipment, and leaping into the audience.

Musician magazine gave readers a glimpse of Moby's home studio, itself
a jungle of keyboards, mixers, samplers, recording equipment, and
other gear. "I like working by myself," the artist reflected in the
magazine spread. "Engineers make me too self-conscious." Apart from
some vocalists who trill fervently on several of the album's tracks,
he is wholly responsible for the recording. In his Elektra bio he
remarked on the degree of expertise this requires. "People tend to be
dismissive of dance acts; oh, he's some dumb DJ, anyone can do that,"
he pointed out. "But an electronic musician has to know the system of
40, 50 pieces of equipment where the operating book for each is the
size of a phone
book. In some ways, it's much more difficult than other kinds of
music." Such breadth of knowledge, however, has not disrupted Moby's
humility and sense of social responsibility. The booklet accompanying
Everything Is Wrong is filled with alarming statistics about
environmental degradation, quotes from esteemed
thinkers about the benefits of vegetarianism, and two short essays
penned by Moby. The first explains the ecological despair that
motivated the title, while the
second lashes out at right-wing Christians, whom he labels
"intolerant, greedy bigots."

But Moby's views appear to be more than mere soapbox sentiments; in
interviews he expresses concern for all living creatures, from
mosquitoes and roaches (which he refuses to kill) to music
journalists. And though he has insisted on the viability of Christ's
teachings, he has also chosen to live with the contradictions of being
a mere mortal. In a chat hosted by the SonicNet online service, he was
asked by one of his many devoted fans to encapsulate the meaning of
life. "The meaning of life," he replied, "is to be loving and
open-minded and full of spunk."

                 Selected Discography
                 "Mobility," Instinct, 1990.
                 "Voodoo Child," Instinct, 1991.
                 "Go," Instinct, 1991.
                 Instinct Dance: A Collection of Dance
 Music from Instinct Records, Instinct,
                 1991.
                 Recoil, Bloodline, Sire, 1992.
                 Ambient (reissue), 1993.
                 Move, Elektra, 1993.
                 Everything Is Wrong, Elektra, 1995.
                 Also recorded with groups the Vatican
 Commandos, AWOL, Shopwell,
                 Peanuts, and the Pork Guys; did
remixes for Michael Jackson, the                       B-52's, Brian
Eno, Pet Shop Boys,                  Depeche Mode, and others.

                 Sources
                 Los Angeles Times, January 18, 1993;
June 21, 1995, p. CAL-5; July 1, 1995,
                 p. CAL-10.
                 Musician, August 1995.
                 Newsday, May 25, 1995, p. B-9.
                 Rolling Stone, November 17, 1994, p.
102; March 23, 1995; May 4, 1995, p.                  58;
                 December 28, 1995.
                 Spin, June 1995, p. 54.

                 Sources
                 Additional information for this
profile was provided by Elektra                  Records publicity
                 materials dated 1995, the liner notes
 to Everything Is Wrong, and a SonicNet
                 online chat.

Peace
Bri




==
"How can I save you, I cant even save myself,
 ....so just save yourself!!!"


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------------------------------

End of mobility-digest V1 #328
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