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klr650-digest       Thursday, September 9 1999       Volume 02 : Number 856



RE: (klr650) Jobs & Tequila NKLR
Re: (klr650) NKLR: Jobs
Re: (klr650) RE: NKLR Krishnamurti and KLR's
Re: (klr650) NKLR Krishnamurti Corrections
Re: (klr650) 650-600 Frame/Handling Comparison
NKLR Re: (klr650) Redundancy revisited
Re: (klr650) Eggparka (NKLR)
Re: (klr650) Re: klr running hot
Re: (klr650) Replacement stock tires
Re: (klr650) Eggparka (NKLR)
Re: (klr650) New model KLR specs?
Re: (klr650) They Treat us like crap NKLR
Re: (klr650) Dyno Results ??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:21:09 -0600
From: juan carlos ibarra <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Jobs & Tequila NKLR

My favorites in order of appearance:

Herradura Reposado
Don Julio (expensive stuff)
Jimador
Herradura Blanco
Hornitos...

Juan


At 07:36 9/8/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>    As far as off the shelf stuff goes what do you guys think of
>Hornitos? Bogdan
>
>    Finaly we have a topic I have some real knowledge on!!!!
>
>    Forget Sauza, dump Cuervo...Herradura Reposado is the way to go!!!!
>
>    For Mezcal: Oaxacan Pechuga from the town of Miahuatlan. God's gift
>to
>    edonist drunks!!!.
>
>    Juan
>
>
>    Visit the KLR650 archives at
>    http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>    Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail] for
>info.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:16:02 -0600
From: juan carlos ibarra <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR: Jobs

Once the world is all paved it won't matter if you are weeded out, who
would want to live in a world like that?

Juan

At 08:10 9/8/99 -0400, you wrote:
><< nor do we know where the nuclear waste really goes. We don't even know
how
>to make nukes really viable. >>
>
>Actually, most don't care where it goes, as long as it is not near their
>house.  And we do know how to make nuclear power work, we just choose not
to.
> The cheapest solution may not be the best.  In the long run, there will
>probably be a return to nuclear power, but by then big brother will have a
>firm grip and know every move you make.  Then all suspicious types like KLR
>riders will be weeded out or sent to reprogramming centers.  In any case,
>there won't be anywhere to ride, because houses and large SUV's will cover
>the land.
>
>Sorry, its one of the few virtues of getting old.  Looking out into the
>future and seeing that it is much bleaker than now.
>
>
>T.S.
>
>Visit the KLR650 archives at
>http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail] for info.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:08:45 -0600
From: juan carlos ibarra <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) RE: NKLR Krishnamurti and KLR's

Spirituality is a concept, so is God; they both come from the same place:
human thought "interpreting" reality, so they have a lot to do with each
other. However, both ideas have nothing to do with what they try to name.

Juan


At 08:22 9/8/99 -0400, you wrote:
><< spirituality is a personal  relationship with God >>
>
>Actually, spirituality may have little to do with "God."
>
>T.S.
>
>Visit the KLR650 archives at
>http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail] for info.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:55:31 -0600
From: juan carlos ibarra <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR Krishnamurti Corrections

On the right hand Krishnamurti's Toltal Freedom on the left Castaneda's The
Fire Within, a few feet from campfire KLR 650... two glasses of Herradura
Reposado slowly travelling from the belly to the brain through the
heart...philosophic heaven!!!

Juan


At 20:39 9/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I think Carlos Casteneda would make an appropriate author for a dual sport
>list campfire discussion.
>Morgan
>Brujo Loco
>
>
>Visit the KLR650 archives at
>http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail] for info.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:11:58 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) 650-600 Frame/Handling Comparison

I wrote:
> > The 650 has a steering angle of 28.5 deg, 1 deg less than the 600.
> > 650 trail is 116mm, the 600 has 122mm.
> > Are the 650A series chassis specs the same as the C?

Tobin wrote:
>         A Series:               B Series
>         Rake-28 degrees                 29.5
>         Trail-112mm                     122mm
>         Length-2290mm                   2240mm

>         Overall ht. 1345mm              1225mm
>         Seat    ht. 890mm               870mm

650C seat height is listed as 870mm.

> However what does this really tell us?

Off the raw numbers, the 650A has the shortest trail and steepest
rake, which would imply the fastest steering of the lot.
The 600s have the longest trail and most rake which would make them
the most theoretically stable.
The 650C numbers put it between the other two.
Very generally, a longer wheelbase will suggest greater stability
and slower steering.

Perhaps the chassis specs are modified to compensate for the varying
curb bike weights.
The 600B has a curb weight of 163kg, the 650C has 186kg (yup, 85kg
front, 101kg rear). Don't ask me where the extra 25kg goes.
Maybe the steel rear subframe has something to do with it? Do the
650s in general have a steel swingarm?

Bear in mind the 650C has a 14 litre tank, the 600B holds 11.5 litres.
A 650A with it's big 20+ litre tank should be even heavier than the
650C, maybe pushing 190kg by these numbers.

So, maybe the heavier bikes get faster steering as some sort of
compensation, which may be just a little too "fast" for their weight
distribution, in the experience of some owners at least.

I don't recall any stability complaints from Tengai owners.
This would suggest that the Tengai's slightly better aerodynamics and
lower steering mass compensates for the faster steering (the Tengais
are based on the 650A IIRC).
Remember that the Tengai has its instruments and headlight built into
the fairing. Less mass in the steering contributes to stability to
some extent.

And another thing, I wonder if the 600 rear subframe, made of similar
square section ally tube as their sidestand, is any more rigid than
the round steel tube of the 650 subframe.

Mister_T


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:59:01 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: NKLR Re: (klr650) Redundancy revisited

Jeff Walker wrote:

> I wonder what the buoyant force of a dead horse is?

HELP! IS THERE A FORENSIC VETERINARY PATHOLOGIST IN THE HOUSE?!

Mister_T


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:48:27 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Eggparka (NKLR)

Paul Christenson wrote:
[...]
> And I am dubious about its value in a crash.

Me too.

> First of all, they quote an inflation time of "<0.9 sec".  About the only
> time that'd be useful is on a highside or over the bars.
>
> And then there's the way it snaps the head forward...

Assuming the jacket doesn't deflate after it's deployed, I can see
the hapless wearer bouncing down the road like a dambuster bomb
looking for a target.

On a bike like a KLR with a fairly upright riding position and
high-ish bars, in a T-bone incident are you more likely to cleanly
flip over the bars or catch your legs under the bars on the way
through?

I vaguely remember reading on a newsgroup about some French bike
prang stats that were taken back around the height of the Paris-Dakar
bike fad. It seems that the fad corresponded with an increase in
groin and leg injuries, compared to "usual".
In which case the Eggparka might just reduce _some_ torso injuries
as the rider doubles over the instruments and headbutts the car
bonnet, but it might be hard to prove that it would be any better
than a good quality MX chestplate in those conditions.

I guess an Eggparka could be a good insulator in cold weather, but
in hot weather give me the MX gear.

Mister_T



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:37:17 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: klr running hot

DobeMan wrote:

>     Just so I know for when I have to do it, how does one bleed the air out
> of the cooling system?

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast shop manual technique with
this.
I fill the cooling system and run the motor for a little while.
Here the 600 has a small advantage as the radiator filler is on the
RH end of the RH radiator, while the bike is on the sidestand, the
radiator filler is about the highest point in the cooling system.
When most of the bigger "glug glugs" are out, I'll top up the radiator
as necessary, maybe squeezing a hose here and there with the motor off
to jiggle the coolant a bit.
When the system is about as full as I can get it, I put the cap back
on and go for a ride.
Once back home, I let the bike cool off and check the level in the
radiator again, topping up as necessary to get the coolant right
up the neck of the filler.
I might repeat this a day or so later. After that, the overflow
bottle does the job.

650s are a little bit easier in a way.
As the filler is on the LHS of the single radiator, you have to tilt
the bike over to the right to get the filler neck to be the highest
point in the cooling system.
This isn't such a bad things as it keeps all the sump oil right
over the oil pump intake which is on the RHS of the engine.

This is the reason I don't run the bike on the sidestand if I can
avoid it.

Mister_T


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:10:44 -0700
From: "Stuart Mumford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Replacement stock tires

>
>He's just come into a lot of stock Dunlop K750s that were removed from Y2K
>KLRs by Kawasaki before the bikes ever hit the street.  I just picked up a
>pair. <<<<<SNIP>>>>>

>Dreas:
>They would have to be very cheap for most listers to consider them I think.
>Thanks.


>Bob Kaub

You know, I personally like the stock tires so much I just got hosed for.
$124.94 for a rear tire. Wish I could read posts earlier. :P

CA Stu A13 < - - - -Ya know with the 6 second pavement ripping tire frying
Big Gun equipped A13
SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAYYYYYYY





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:16:47 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Eggparka (NKLR)

> And I am dubious about its value in a crash.
>
> First of all, they quote an inflation time of "<0.9 sec".  About the only
> time that'd be useful is on a highside or over the bars.
>
> And then there's the way it snaps the head forward...

They inflate THAT slowly?  Jeeze!  That is actually an additional danger!
First you'll have the impact with whatever you hit, then the stupid vest
would inflate, adding more kinetic energy to the fray.  That wouldn't even
help you in a highside OR over the bars, because you are on the ground
faster than that!  Lets say that in a crash, your body falls 1 meter to
reach the ground (3 feet for you non metric types).  Time until impact with
the ground is about .45 seconds, no matter what speed you are traveling at
when you go over the bars!  BUT, if you hit or were hit by something, say a
driver who swerved into your lane (oncoming), I'd estimate that the time
until impact would be less than .1 second.

So since most accidents on the bike are from a rider failing to negotiate a
turn, lets say rider goes over the bars and off the road.  Time until impact
with the ground = .45 seconds, leaving .45 seconds of you sliding along the
ground until the stupid thing inflated.  And then what would it save you
from?  I think that it would cause more damage due to the force of the rapid
inflation. Here your body is, sliding along the pavement or whatever, losing
kinetic energy as you come to a stop.  The inflation of the vest adds more
kinetic energy to the system.  The only crash that I have seen that this
would be effective for is if you were sliding along and slide up into a
barrier, like you see the racers do all the time, slide up into a stack of
hay bales.  I had my doubts about the effectiveness of this product when I
heard that they were inflated with CO2.  Car airbags use nitrogen gas and
deploy explosively.

Off hand, I'd say that this product is totally useless.  I'd love to see
some more numbers to crunch on it and throw in the face of the manufacturer!

Jeff


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:19:05 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New model KLR specs?

> ....I'm gonna invest my profits in the "futures" market...
> (grin)

You all need to invest in gold and silver for Y2K!! :)  (Drive the price up
for me so I can sell mine!)

Jeff


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:24:15 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) They Treat us like crap NKLR

> Yo listers,
> Whilst driving through one of the thousands of toll booths in the
beautiful
> Garden State (new Jersey)  I realized that they are trying to Kill us
> Motorcyclists. The oil spills at the toll booths were appauling!  It was
> really bad, you'd think that someone who works there and has to step in
that
> all day would do something about it. Do bikes really do enough road damage
> that they warrant paying a toll? can't we have a lane to ourselves?
> -neil
>
I've never driven in a state that has toll roads, that I know of.  I've been
over a few toll bridges though.  You know what the perfect tax is though,
right?  One that only taxes the user, and one that I don't have to pay.  I
live in a state that has some of the highest fees for license renewal, and
the highest gas tax.  They'll get you one way or another!

As for the oil spills and road bitches (alligators), they are put there to
keep us sharp and in training for the big day when the idiot driver tries to
kill us for real!

Jeff


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:28:36 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Dyno Results ??

I wrote:
[waffle]
> If it's the cams, the 650 manual should show different timing to the
> 600. I doubt the valve and port sizes would be altered.

I'll answer myself here and quote some cam timing specs:
600 intake 19-69 (duration 268)
   exhaust 55-25 (duration 260)

650C1 intake 19-69 (duration 268)
     exhaust 57-31 (duration 268)

So the 650 has 8 deg more duration on the exhaust, so it might breathe
just a bit better at upper revs (even though the 650C makes its peak
torque at 500rpm lower than the 600s)

> Maybe it's the ignition timing, since that is something that next to
> nobody could or would fiddle with easily.

Well, this has been covered on the list before.
Still, 30 deg max advance on the 650C sounds a bit low to me.
Then again, 40 deg max for my 600B1 sounds a bit too much. The 600B2
and up had 35 deg max advance.

If the 650s in general use a flat top piston as opposed to the domed
600 piston, that might explain to some extent the need for less
advance in the 650s.
The 650C manual doesn't show a photo of the piston, just a line
drawing which may not be entirely accurate.

Maybe James Ruggles is still out there somewhere, he'd know.

Mister_T


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------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V2 #856
****************************