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klr650-digest          Saturday, May 1 1999          Volume 02 : Number 350




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Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:52:09 -0700
From: "ripkid" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Proper braking

 Vic DeFilippis
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 1:10 PM
> Subject: (klr650) Proper braking
 let's say
> I want to go from 50 MPH to 0 MPH on pavement.  Specifically I want to do
> this in a way that is 1) safe and 2) best for the bike's longevity.  I've
> been immediately shifting into neutral and using the brakes entirely to
> stop.  Is it better to use some combination of downshifting and braking?
> If so what?  Thanks for any and all opinions!
>
> -Vic
> A12
- ----------
If you really want to stop. Say for instance your life depends on it. Don't
mess with your gears, just grab hold of the brakes and get on 'em. 60-70%
front, and 30-40% rear. Don't lock em up. See
 http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesdavis/DISCUSS.html for a more thorough
explanation.

If you are talking about a normal slow to stop you should get used to using
your engine as a brake. Just don't shift into too low a gear or you will
chirp a feel silly (or worse).

Someone on this list directed me to the web site above, very handy for the
experienced and novice alike.

- -rik A13

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:00:20 -0700
From: Tobin Lampson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Tires

Jeff,
    I guess this is a case of different viewponts. Actually I've
been riding since about age 9, now 43. On dirt I use only rear brake.
This leaves hands free for....coming into corners, grabbing lower gears.
At tightest point in corner I simultaneously throttle, release clutch
and rear brake(when my angle applies max traction). Of course one must
know what gear they're in.....
    I'm aware motocrossers use the two brake method, I'm an enduro
guy.
        See you in Moab aye?
Toby'Slide'Lampson
klr 650
klr 600
IT 490
IT 400
XT 600
XL 500
kz1000

Jeff & Lisa Walker wrote:
>
> > The IRC with Metzler Sahara like pattern, not far from
> >Gripsters(tractor-tread), may appear like a good dualsport
> tire(good
> >on-road!),.......wrong. Noisy, low miles, forget Mud.
>
> If you are refering to the IRC GP 110, that's funny, many people
> have said that they've gotten very good milage from these tires,
> and been happy with them, though they are loud on the street.  I
> haven't tried them yet to know for myself.
>
> Good Luck    Tobin Lampson
> >
> >ps I advocate NO front brake NONE, in dirt. Maybe, in a too
> steep a
> >downhill, and y'all?
> >
>
> No offense, but you don't do much dirt riding do you?  The front
> brake is necessary in the dirt, just as it is on the street.  You
> just apply it with less force, and it requires a touch.  If you
> don't use the front brake, how do you slow down fast enough?  For
> me its on the throttle, through the bumps, tight corner coming
> up, on both brakes, lean it over, on the throttle and powerslide
> through.
>
> Jeff--A3
>
> RM125
> YZ250
> CR480
> XL500S
> XL600R
> KZ1000

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:57:44 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Proper braking

>I know this is a very stupid question but I am an inexperienced
cyclist and
>am not sure what the best braking technique is.  In other words,
let's say
>I want to go from 50 MPH to 0 MPH on pavement.  Specifically I
want to do
>this in a way that is 1) safe and 2) best for the bike's
longevity.  I've
>been immediately shifting into neutral and using the brakes
entirely to
>stop.  Is it better to use some combination of downshifting and
braking?
>If so what?  Thanks for any and all opinions!
>
Are we talking about a panic or emergency stop here, or are we
talking about I need to stop at that light at the end of the off
ramp?  If its a panic stop, forget about downshifting.  Stand low
on the pegs, shift as much body weight to the rear of the bike as
you can, and grab a hold of the clutch and both brakes and STOP!
If your rear wheel starts to slide, that's OK, just ride it out
until you've stopped.  If your front brake starts to slide (not
likely with stock brakes!), let off and reapply quickly.  In a
panic situation you should also be prepared to countersteer to
avoid a collision if you aren't going to stop in time, a maneuver
that has saved me three times in seventeen years of riding.

If we are talking about regular stopping, coming up to an
unexpected stoplight or just a stop sign, then you should
downshift as well as brake.  You don't need to let the clutch out
while you downshift, although if you anticipated that stop sign,
using the engine compression as you downshift saves the brakes
from wearing some.  You want to be in the gear that is
appropriate for the speed you are traveling at, like you don't
want to downshift to first gear if you are still rolling at 40
mph OK?  Third gear is more appropriate at 40 mph.   The gears on
the KLR tranny are a bit sticky, OK?  So you really should be
rolling forward to shift either up or down.  You'll find that
after a panic stop, getting the bike back in first can be a
little troublesome.

These things come with experience and practice.  I advise that
you take a riders course.  More bikers crash in their first year
on the street.  If you opt not to take a rider's safety course,
then go find a large empty parking lot and practice.  Choose a
point, or a line, that you start to brake at.  Approach that
point at say, 25 mph, then do a full blown panic stop, and see
how far it took you to stop.  Once you get practiced at 25 mph,
then go faster and see how far it took.  Another thing you need
to practice is approaching an object, say at 10-20 mph, and then
do a countersteer to avoid it.  Like use a parking divider as the
object.  Ride straight for the center of it at 10 mph, then steer
around it, playing chicken with it.

I've been riding on the dirt for near 17 years, but on the street
for just 13 years, and I'm still learning and getting experience.
I can tell you that in traffic I ride like a grandma, totally
conservative, except that I can see over the wheel and am aware
of everything going on around me.

Jeff--A3

RM125
YZ250
CR480
XL500S
XL600R
KZ1000

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 14:07:26 -0700
From: "Arne Larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Proper braking

Use everything:  Front brake, back brake, engine compression.  Just using
your brakes alone will wear out your brakes quicker.

Arne

- -----Original Message-----
From: Vic DeFilippis <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: May 1, 1999 1:10 PM
Subject: (klr650) Proper braking


>I know this is a very stupid question but I am an inexperienced cyclist and
>am not sure what the best braking technique is.  In other words, let's say
>I want to go from 50 MPH to 0 MPH on pavement.  Specifically I want to do
>this in a way that is 1) safe and 2) best for the bike's longevity.  I've
>been immediately shifting into neutral and using the brakes entirely to
>stop.  Is it better to use some combination of downshifting and braking?
>If so what?  Thanks for any and all opinions!
>
>-Vic
>A12

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:09:23 -0500
From: "Tom Meagher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Torque values anyone?

I've got my A13 (568 miles) valve cover off, and a copy of Eldon's excellent
valve adjustment article.  I've got my new shims.  Valves were: RI:.005,
LI:.005, RE:.007, LE:.006.  I'm going to the next thinner shim on each one,
since they tend to tighten over time, or so I understand.

Eldon gives the torque values for the cam shaft bearing caps, and valve
cover bolts, but what about the following:

- -- Upper Cam chain guide slipper bolts - 3 ea. 8 mm
- -- Top Engine mount bolts - 3 ea. 12 mm

- -- Oil filter cap bolts
- -- engine side cover bolts

I'm going to follow Skip's advice and re-do whatever I can with anti-sieze.
I guess I should do the swingarm and linkages and steering head and axles
too, in the interest of preventive maintenance while the bike is new.
sigh...

I am so paranoid of stripping threads.  I think too loose is better than too
tight, at least I have a good low-range torque wrench.

I couldn't find anything in the archives.

Thanks,
Tom Meagher
Houston TX
A13

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:08:44 -0600
From: Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) (NKLR) Beer

Subject: Estrogen Found in Beer

Yesterday scientists revealed that beer contains small traces of female
hormones. To prove their theory, the scientists fed 100 men 12 pints of
beer and observed that 100% of them gained weight,
talked excessively without making sense, became emotional, couldn't drive,
couldn't think, and refused to apologize when wrong.

No further testing is planned.
- --
Jeff, NM, A13 & '74 TR5T Triumph Adventurer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:17:58 -0700
From: Christopher J Beasley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Need conversion help

[e-mail] wrote:

> Am installing Progressives this afternoon. But I've lost the conversion
> utility that would have told me how many ozs. or ccs are equal to 420 ml.
>

Well, 1 cc = 1ml.  How's that.b

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:21:07 -0700
From: Christopher J Beasley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Helicoils

MM wrote:

> OK list. I'm getting ready to take the big leap and do my first-ever
> Helicoil insert. You may recall my panicked message of 2 weeks ago regarding
> stripped threads for valve cover bolts.
>
> My question is simple. Never having done this before, what are the key
> points to avoid irreparable damage. Obviously, go slow, and keep any
> drillings out of the engine case. I'm thinking about doing all 4 valve cover
> bolts at the same time, so I'll be drilling on the 2 left side cam caps -
> that's where the threads are. Any important must-do's or no-no's here?
>

Personally, I'd avoid doing the cam caps unless I had to.  Seems too easy to
screw them up.  Just take your time, follow the instructions.  Pack the top end
with clean rags before you start.  Pick up all the chips with a shop vac before
you remove the rags.  This should keep the chips out of the motor.

> Last question - the thread on the bolt is 6 mm x 1.0 - I'm _ASSUMING_ that
> the helicoil is labeled by the bunged-up thread you are replacing, not the
> new, drilled-out outer diameter. Am I right?
>

Helicoils are labeled as you say, for the thread being repaired.Good luck!
b

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:27:29 -0700
From: Christopher J Beasley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Torque values anyone?

If you have the manuals ( you do right? ) there is a list near the beginning
that gives generic torque values based upon the size of the fastener.  That's
what I use if there is no specific torque listed for a particular fastner.  It's
really easy to strip a 4mm screw going into aluminum.
b

snip

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:38:15 -0700
From: Tobin Lampson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Proper braking

Vic,
    It seems the general consensus is an alternating between
downshifting(letting the motor slow you down) and braking. This will not
overheat(possibly glazing) brakes in those long downhill situations.
    However, in contrast to the info given at the website ripkid provides,
I beleive 'the' factor in determining brake technique should
be 'terrain'. Use brakes, front more than rear, on pavement that is for
sure- gravel/sand/debris free, and straight. Otherwise the dirt method
of heavy rear little front applies.
    Why? Can you see debris on pavement in a corner, sand? What
happens using the street method of braking when you hit a patch of
pebbles, oil, ice, on pavement?
    If using an offroad method of braking as a foundation, then,
in those times on pavement when you encounter, sand, gravel, etc.,
anywhere, your instinct will be to go to the rear brake allowing the
front tire to 'roll over' the loose stuff rather than have it slip out
from under you.
    This will get you some wrong answers on a MC test in Ca. though,
and I'm okay to disagree.....cause I've eaten it the other way....
Two times, bbbbaaaaaaddddd.....since, my long time riding buds donned me
..........'the guy who never falls down.' Don't worry my next spill is
coming, its inevitable, with fun, and time.
                 Kawtrailer,    'Slide'Lampson




Vic DeFilippis wrote:
>
> I know this is a very stupid question but I am an inexperienced cyclist and
> am not sure what the best braking technique is.  In other words, let's say
> I want to go from 50 MPH to 0 MPH on pavement.  Specifically I want to do
> this in a way that is 1) safe and 2) best for the bike's longevity.  I've
> been immediately shifting into neutral and using the brakes entirely to
> stop.  Is it better to use some combination of downshifting and braking?
> If so what?  Thanks for any and all opinions!
>
> -Vic
> A12

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:46:31 PDT
From: "Brian Hillman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Tires

I am running a new set of GP110's on my 85 KL600 and am very happy with
them, on dirt and street. I ride alot and have a couple of grand on them
already with some light tread wear mostly in the rear. They are only
noticeably noisy when cornering at speed and I do canyon carve. I feel that
these tires are pretty darn good. Especially compared to the Cheng Shin's
that were there when I got this old beast. Oh and front brake is VERY
important in the dirt. I have never seen a MX dirt only bike with a crappy
front brake, ever wonder why????  :-) (my MX roots show?)

Brian
85 KL600-B1


>If you are refering to the IRC GP 110, that's funny, many people
>have said that they've gotten very good milage from these tires,
>and been happy with them, though they are loud on the street.  I
>haven't tried them yet to know for myself.
>
>Good Luck    Tobin Lampson
> >
> >ps I advocate NO front brake NONE, in dirt. Maybe, in a too
>steep a
> >downhill, and y'all?
> >
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:45:22 -0600
From: Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) What valve clearences?

Do you all remember my little trick using finger nail polish to create a
seal between the head cover and the head?  Well the seal wasn't broken
during the 500 mile check-up.  Now I've got 739 miles on the new engine and
the outdoor temperature today was 52 degrees and windy.  So, I decided to
break the seal today and check the valve clearances myself.

The intake clearances are spec'ed at .004" - .008".  Both were .004"
exactly!

The exhaust clearances are spec'ed at .006" - .010".  The right side was
.006" exactly!  The left side was .005" exactly!

Here's my dilemma.  Do I take the machine back to the shop where they said
they checked them and never broke my enamel polish seal or do I accept
these clearances with the knowledge that things will wear and the
clearances will come into tolerance eventually?  I think I'll ignore the
extra close exhaust clearance and not chance the shop with the adjustment
because they may make things worse!

What do you guys and gals think?  I value your feedback.

It's still a warranty issue if it goes back.  They didn't do what was paid
for.

BTW, the Ground Hog is running Super!
- --
Jeff, NM, A13 & '74 TR5T Triumph Adventurer (A Triumph that could tractor)
http://www.flash.net/~n5ujj - Down Home Page
http://www.flash.net/~n5ujj/hamstuff - HAM It UP Page

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 16:06:54 -0600
From: Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Proper braking and other motorcycling tips:

Vic,

Here is a web site for all bikers who ride Motorcycles.  Beginners and
experts:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesdavis/DISCUSS.html

Braking methods depend on speed:
http://home.earthlink.net/~eca/TIP028.html

Braking in a curve:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesdavis/TIP128.html
- --
Jeff, NM, A13 & '74 TR5T Triumph Adventurer (A Triumph that could tractor)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:56:07 -0600
From: Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) conversions

Chris Worte:

>Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 14:45:08 EDT
>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: (klr650) Need conversion help
>
>Am installing Progressives this afternoon. But I've lost the conversion
>utility that would have told me how many ozs. or ccs are equal to 420 ml.
>
>Can anyone out there give me the conversion?
>
>TIA
>
>Chris Lawson

I use a program called Unit.  It converts anything!

You answer is .420 liters = 14.20229 ounces (fluid)
- --
Jeff, NM, A13 & '74 TR5T Triumph Adventurer (A Triumph that could tractor)
http://www.flash.net/~n5ujj - Down Home Page
http://www.flash.net/~n5ujj/hamstuff - HAM It UP Page

------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V2 #350
****************************