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klr650-digest         Tuesday, March 16 1999         Volume 02 : Number 139




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Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:49:25 -0800
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Chase Harper Tank Bags

>I've been using the same Chase Harper bag since 1984!!!!! (It's been on 6
>different bikes and been from Maine To Florida)
> They hold up well and it's STILL WATERPROOF!
>


How does the magnetic attachment perform?  I'm a little concerned that
bouncing off road would bounce the bag off without any straps to secure it.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:40:15 -0700
From: "Skip Faulkner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Blowing headlight fuses

>
>I think one thing that contributes to blown headlight fuses is the design
of the
>dimmer switch. As you switch from "low" to "high" there is a point in the
dimmer
>switch lever travel where BOTH the headlight filaments are getting current.
With one
>of my other bikes I used to use this "middle" position to get more light on
the road.
>
>
>I think you may have hit on it Don...no one else has ventured a guess. I've
had the
>same experience but now seldom flip my switch because it is always on high
and I
>seldom ride at night...
>
>Kurt
>


I`m sorry to be the fly in the ointment Kurt, but on the three occasions I
blew fuses, two were in the day, on the hiway, and doing nothing but
watching for idiot cage drivers. I personally think it was transient spikes
or surges ( which is common on D.C. charging systems) coupled with minimum
rated size wire. A perfect combo for blowing a fuse. To give further proof
for that opinion, since installing larger gage wire, I`ve had no blown
breakers. Who knows?

 Skip

 Skip

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:51:17 -0800
From: "Darrel & Deanna" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) What's in a name?

Kurt writes:

Kurt A12 El Poppo
Salt Lake City
**********************

Kurt-  El Poppo? What happened to Oingo Boingo?  Did you get a new A12 or
just new suspension?  Darrel A12 'avenger'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:46:03 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) Is there a Honda GL500 Silver Wing list?

In a message dated 3/16/99 9:39:40 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I read that Honda had more new patents on the CX than any manufacturer has
had on any
 new introduction (200 some if I remember). >>

Anyone remember the the Honda Turbo CX650?  Drop dead gorgeous bike,
especially the white and gold model.  Looked fast just sitting there.

Gino

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:54:56 -0000
From: "Eric Jasniewicz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Blowin' headlight fuses

DO NOT USE THE MIDDLE POSITION OF THE HEADLIGHT SWITCH!!!

I used to do this on all my other bikes I've had over the years with no
problems.

I then needed it on an unlit mountain road late at night.  Worked for a few
minutes, then POOF! No lights anywhere!!  I limped to a rest area using the
turnsignal, this will be your only light source if you blow the fuse inline
with the headlight.  This is very, very, bad!

Anyone have any info/opinions on e-type headlights from Europe?

BTW, whatever happened to whoever was making his own fusebox for the KLR
(Skip, Kurt???)

EJ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:25:49 -0500
From: Bryan Moody <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Blowin' headlight fuses

My suggested solution is to replace the stock fuseholder with Bussman
type HHD fuseholders.  They accept automotive ATC blade type fuses.  But
instead of fuses go to your local NAPA or heavy duty truck store and get
thermal reset breakers and plug them into your new fuseholders.
They will open the circuit when there is an overload, but once the
overload is cleared, they automatically reset.



Eric Jasniewicz wrote:
>
> snip
>
> BTW, whatever happened to whoever was making his own fusebox for the KLR
> (Skip, Kurt???)


- --
Bryan Moody
Greensboro, NC
86 Concours, 94 KLR650
COG Southeast Area Director http://www.concours.org/se

IronButt Association: BBG, 1000ccc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:29:42 -0700
From: "Fred Hink" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) Is there a Honda GL500 Silver Wing list?

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) Is there a Honda GL500 Silver Wing list?


>In a message dated 3/16/99 9:39:40 PM Mountain Standard Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
><< I read that Honda had more new patents on the CX than any manufacturer
has
>had on any
> new introduction (200 some if I remember). >>
>
>Anyone remember the the Honda Turbo CX650?  Drop dead gorgeous bike,
>especially the white and gold model.  Looked fast just sitting there.
>
>Gino
>
>

Of all the killer fast three cylinder Kawasakis I have ridden, I think the
CX650 turbo had to be the fastest smoothest bike I ever rode.  Of course
riding my buddies CX650T in the middle of the night without a helmet at over
120 and the roar of the wind in my ears had nothing to do with it.  It would
go as fast as you had the guts to hold the throttle open.

Fred    There are old pilots and bold pilots but not old bold pilots.  To be
old and wise first you have to be young and stupid.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 20:45:32 PST
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Braking Physics (NKLR)

> However, what does a second brake system do for us?  It would seem to =

> double the braking force by doubling the contact area.  However, notice
> that the contact area isn't a factor in the friction equation; it's a =

> term that drops out in the proof.
>
> No; the only way to increase the braking force is to increase either =
the
> CofF or N (or both).

Here there are two things that have changed with two rotors/pads. The big=
gest gain is that you have now doubled your normal force. Let's assume =
that the pressure of the brake fluid is  10 psi when braking( this is pro=
bably not even close, but for the sake of example). The fluid can produce=
 an infinite amount of force! Why because it is 10 pounds per square inch=
; force produced depends on the amount of area the pressure is acting on.=
 If I have 10 inches of surface area that the fluid is pushing on, then =
we will have 10/in^2 *10 in^2 =3D 100 lb of force on the rotor. If we hav=
e 100 in^2 of area that the fluid is putting pressure on then we will hav=
e 10 lb/in^2 * 100 in^2 =3D 1000 lb of force. So we will have about twice=
 the frictional force produced with 2 rotors ( given that everything else=
 is the same ).

Increase in contact area will produce a  small increase in frictional for=
ces ( I know others do not agree). Why do drag racer have wide tires? Why=
 do we want to have a greater contact patch in a turn so we try to minimi=
ze the lean of the bike?

I emailed my friend who has a PhD in dynamic/kinematics for a reference =
on the area/friction issue.

I did find out that I was wrong on at least one point. Wet friction will =
increase with velocity; Wet friction (with lubrication) will increase wit=
h an increase in relative velocity of the surfaces. Disc brakes, however,=
 work by dry friction.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 20:58:31 PST
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Braking Physics

> I believe its because the disk surface maintains a better alignment wit=
h the
> brake pads during application.  When the force applied is exactly ortho=
gonal
> to the surface, then the max normal force is generated, and therefore =
a
> greater frictional force results.
>
> Jeff


What is the (sin 90 - sin 89). About .0002  This is not significant diffe=
rence.

Okay assume you are 5 degress off with non-floating pads ( which is proba=
bly only 1 deg.) the difference is still only 0.4%

This can not explain the improvement in braking.

It is probably due to more surface area contact! ( I know some do not agr=
ee. Find a better explaination )

Alex

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:39:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Alex Jomarron <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Reno 200

Greetings KLRists,

The Reno 200 is looking very intriguing to me. I'm thinking of
delaying my Alaska departure to ride it. Anyone thinking of going?

Cheers,






==
Alex Jomarron
Oak Park, IL USA
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 21:33:54 PST
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR Auto Oils in the Bike

- ----------
> Dean asked what I got from the oil reps on the new oil ratings change. =
The
> industry line for changing to SH/SJ was to mainly  reduce the levels =
of
> phosphorus, moly and other heavy metals present in the old rating stand=
ards.
> These additives are said to be cumulative in our environment.

In a bike shop I recently saw Suzuki "motorcycle oil" with the SJ rating!

Alex

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:36:20 -0600
From: "Tom Meagher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Pac-Safe Information from Australia

From: Tom Meagher@ICS on 03/16/99 11:36 PM

Listerinos,
Here's some more follow up on the Pac-Safe stuff from Magnus of Outpac
Designs,
the manufacturer, FYI.

>I just sent this to him:
Hi Magnus,
I'm out of Houston Texas.
I've owned lots of different types of bikes.  Right now I have a Yamaha
V-Max, which I'm selling in order to buy a Kawasaki KLR650 Dual-Sport type
of scoot.

In fact, I found out about your product was from a posting on the KLR650
news list.  (one of our listers suggested that a suitable substitute might
be made from a piece of rubber-dipped chicken wire (pat. pend.), so beware
of the fierce competition!  ;^)).

I plan on riding the KLR to Alaska this summer, and I was looking for one
of
your security nets for the trip.

Perhaps I could I be a volunteer to "beta-test" a proto-type product?  I'd
write a heck of a glowing testimonial...

As an interim measure, what about combining two or three of your largest
standard products together to create a virtual XX large size one?

Thanks!
Tom Meagher


- -----Original Message-----
From: Magnus McGlashan <[e-mail]>
To: Tom Meagher <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle applications


>Tom,
>We are designing at the moment and a product should be hitting the market
>within 8-12 months.
>Where are you based? How did you hear about the Pacsafe? What sort of bike
do
>you own?
>Speak to you soon,
>Magnus
>
>
>Tom Meagher wrote to Outpac Designs Ltd:
>
>> Hi guys,
>> Great product you're selling, have you considered making a BIG one that
>> would cover a motorcycle with soft luggage all the way from the tank bag
>> back to the tail and saddle bags?
>>
>> Could be a big market, and bikers like me wouldn't mind lugging around a
>> much heavier net than a hiker could stand, for the sake of some extra
peace
>> of mind.
>>
>> Let me know what your plans are, we'll post them to our newsgroup...
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Meagher
>> [e-mail]
>
>--
>**********************************
>Magnus McGlashan
>Director
>Outpac Designs Ltd.
>mailto:[e-mail]
>http://www.pac-safe.com
>
>***********************************
>***********************************
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:43:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Alex Jomarron <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) tank bag nomination

I SWEAR by my RevPack tankbag.
I have the standard size which is a tad too large for the KLR. Rev
makes one that is 2/3rds the size. The thing is WATERPRROOF! Very
simple design. I've had mine for 10 years and last year the velcro
lost its gription. I sent it in, Rev repaired it......FREE!
They are in New Cayuma, CA and have a ranch that hosts bike events.
Cool people.

Just my opinion from a satisified customer.

Cheers,






==
Alex Jomarron
Oak Park, IL USA
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:29:33 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) Is there a Honda GL500 Silver Wing list?

In a message dated 3/16/99 8:58:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Anyone remember the the Honda Turbo CX650?  Drop dead gorgeous bike,
 especially the white and gold model.  Looked fast just sitting there.

 Gino
  >>
Yeah, I see them (CX650 Turbo) for sale every once in a while around here in
the $2800.00 price range. Nice reliable bike. I did a little touring on a
Silver Wing Interstate back in the 80's. Smooooooth. Water Cooled, Shaft Drve,
and not overly expensive.

Bill S

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:31:26 -0800
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Braking Physics (NKLR)

>
>The one thing that didn't sit right with me was the comment someone made
>that two disc rotors (and pads, etc.) gives better braking than a single
>rotor.
>
>That statement seems intuitively obvious, but my physics teacher claimed
>that the obvious is wrong more often that not.  So, I did a mental
>exercise.
>
>We know that the braking is simply a controlled increase in friction, so
>that force is (normal force [N] * coeff. of friction[CofF]).  (Normal
>force is the force that's 90 degrees to the plane of the contact patch.)
>
>However, what does a second brake system do for us?  It would seem to
>double the braking force by doubling the contact area.  However, notice
>that the contact area isn't a factor in the friction equation; it's a
>term that drops out in the proof.
>
>No; the only way to increase the braking force is to increase either the
>CofF or N (or both).  CofF can be changed by changing the rotor or brake
>pads.  Since the KLR doesn't have an assisted braking system, all the N
>comes from the rider's fingers, and unless the lever is hitting the
>grip, there's not a lot that can be done.
>
>So what do dual rotors do, other than make money for the parts stores?
>
>Brakes, by design, convert kinetic energy (speed) into thermal energy
>(heat).  When the brakes get hot, the CofF drops.  (We call this 'brake
>fade'.)  Each of the two rotors (in theory) does half the total braking,
>and generate half as much heat as a single rotor brake.


Ok, remember how a "hydraulic lever" acts.  You take a small(er) force,
apply it to a small area, and move it through a larger distance.  The brake
fluid, as all fluids is incompressible and transfers the force to the output
side, the calipers.  Pressure is equal to force divided by the area.  The
pressure is different on the input side (brake lever) than the output side,
as the areas of the pistons is different.  This change in pressure, delta p,
is equal to the ratio of the input force divided by the input area, which is
equal to the output force divided by the output pressure.  That is:

F(i)/A(i) = F(o)/A(o).   From this equation, you see that given the input
force supplied by the hand, and the area if the input piston, for the output
side to have a larger area at the caliper piston means that the output force
must be larger to equate.  Now, imagine that the brake line is split, and
there are two calipers, therefore twice the area on the output side.  Fi/Ai
= Fo/2Ao.  As you can see, the output force would have to be twice as large
to equate.  This output force is divided equally to the two brakes though,
so each brake imparts the same amount of force on each rotor.  Therefore,
the total frictional force supplied is twice that of the single rotor
system.  In reality is it like this though?  No.  The reason is because of
another equation, dealing with the volume of brake fluid that must move.
The Volume is equal to the input Area (Ai) times the distance di, which is
also equal to the Area of the output Ao times the distance at the output do.
That is, V = Ai*di = Ao*do.  This means that the smaller area piston must
travel a greater distance to equal the output side with the larger area.
You take a smaller force, and move it through a greater distance.  Obviously
this isn't practical as the brake lever can only move so far.  Design
considerations that are determined by how much tolerance you need at the
calipers for the brakes to slip without too much friction when the brakes
aren't applied.

Another poster stated that by adding a larger brake pad the area of the
output side has increased.  I don't believe this to be true, since the fluid
pressure is acting on the caliper piston's area, not on the brake pad
directly.

As to rotors of a larger diameter having more braking force due to the rotor
having greater velocity at the greater radius.  There actually is some truth
to this, but not by the actual braking force that is supplied.  That force
is determined by the normal force and the coefficient of kinetic friction,
period.  But with the work equation, you see that more work is done on the
brake rotor by the frictional force.  Work is equal to force times distance.
The rotor goes through a larger distance, therefore the frictional force
does more work.  But here's the deal.  Without more information regarding
actually measuring the initial speed and the negative acceleration of the
brake rotor when the frictional force is applied, there is no way to
determine how much of the work energy (Work and energy are one and the same)
was converted to kinetic energy, and how much was converted to potential
energy.  The total energy is equal to the potential energy plus the kinetic
energy.  In this case, the "potential" energy is just heat.  So you see, all
of the extra work done by friction can either be converted to kinetic energy
and actually stop the brake faster, or be converted to waste heat, which is
a bad thing and causes the brakes to fade.

As you can tell, this is a very interesting subject for me.  I think that I
am going to try and use university resources to study this further.  I
apologize to those who have had to bear through this all, and I promise to
drop this topic off of list replies.  If you have a question, or I forgot
something, or am totally wrong, email me directly and I'll email you back.

"In science, there is only physics.  Everything else is just stamp
collecting."  Ernest Rutherford, credited to discovering the structure of
the atom.

Jeff

------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V2 #139
****************************