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klr650-digest         Tuesday, March 16 1999         Volume 02 : Number 135




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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:09:24 -0800
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR MREs/Survival food

>I live on the east side of the San Francisco Bay, right smack on top of the
>Hayward Fault.  (The San Andreas is better known, but the experts say that
>when the Hayward finally slips the result could easily be a 7+ "seismic
>event.")  I'm putting together an earthquake preparedness/Y2K/the
>Russians-are-down-but-not-out-and-what-about-those
>Chinese-communists/general paranoia kit together and could use a little
>advice.  I've already got the shotgun, shells, and a case of whiskey but my
>major question regards food. I tried my first MRE today and it seems like a
>good system - much more palatable than the K rations I ate in the service,
>low water requirement, and self heating to boot.  Cheap (under $5 apiece if
>you buy a case) and with an incredible shelf life, it seems like the hot
>ticket (as long as it doesn't make me constipated for 3 days like the K
>rations used to

Forget the Russians, they're all capitalist mobsters now.  Its the Chinese
man.

Ate MRE's and such for over eight years.  (Occupational Hazard).  (Meals,
Rejected by Ethiopians, MystRE, Meal, Recycled Excrement).  Well, believe
me, you can get constipated eating MRE's.  Don't eat too much of the peanut
butter or cheese.  They will also give you the nastiest gas.  Other that,
they are a good meal for the purpose.  However, if you can swing it, Get the
"Lurps".  (Long Life Ration Packet).  They are packaged the same as the MRE,
but they have dehydrated meals that kick ass.  (Chile con carne, spagetti
with meat sauce)  They also have twice the candy.  The only drawback with
these meals is that you need warm water to rehydrate them and eat them.  In
the field, I never had a shortage of heat tabs to heat a canteen cup of
water, but a small propane burner isn't a bad idea.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:20:54 -0800
From: "Darrel & Deanna" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Braking Physics

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:43:25 -0500
From: Tim Bootle <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Questions, Questions, Questions - KLR

Ah my friends we just so happen to have an engineer on the list.
Caution:  Heavy physics follows!
(for those other physics freaks out there, yes I know am am making some
simplifications.)
The type of physics involved here is called dynamics.  Let me set up the
problem
for you.  You want to slow down the bike and you've decided to do this by
squeezing the front brake lever.  The following is what happens and why a
bigger
rotor lets you stop faster.  (and its not just because of the torque arm!)
<snip>

************************************
Thanks Tim for the in-depth discussion on braking physics.  I was wondering
if you could also explain how and why a floating disc (rotor) such as the
MAP aftermarket item for the KLR is superior to a one-piece disc in braking
power.  TIA, Darrel A12

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:25:44 -0700
From: "Fred Hink" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Acerbis The times they are a changin.

I got my new Acerbis catalog today.  There was not very much new in it.  A
very dull catalog compared to last years.  They have taken out most all the
good lookin women and have stopped producing the pinup calendar.  One of the
only new items I found was a plastic skid plate made for the KLR 650.  I
have used the plastic Acerbis skid plate on an XR600 for a long time and
they do hold up to the abuse that Moab can through at it.

The plastic Acerbis for the KLR comes in white only and sells for $40.  I
like them over the aluminum skid plates because they fit tighter to the
frame and engine, are molded to fit your bike and don't look like you just
bolted a scoop shovel to the bottom of your engine.

Fred  (lookin for a new pinup calendar)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:21:05 -0800
From: "Arne Larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Walmart (NKLR)

At the time the Walmart discussion was going around I was thinking that the
marketing strategy (small town, Mom & Pop out of business, etc..) didn't
really apply here.  Then I got to thinking (yes, I thought I smelled
something burning), that even though we have a population of around 110,000,
there was a store that went out of business shortly after they (Walmart)
arrived.  And I remember them saying that they couldn't compete with
Walmart.  Now this store that went under (Goslings) was probably doomed to
failure any how.  It was a family owned business that had been around since
Abbotsford's population was 100,000 less.  And there prices were good - as
low as Walmart's any ways, but where they used to be in the core of the
city, the city was expanding to the point of them being left on the fringes.
I think it was more of a case of Walmart being the straw that broke...

The upside of this though, was that where this other store probably employed
some 30 people, Walmart probably employees 120+ local people.

And I did get a good 850 amp "Energizer" deep cycle marine battery there 2
years ago for about $40.00 less than the competition.

Oh well, just thinking...

Arne

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:17:29 -0700
From: "Skip Faulkner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650)NKLR oil changes

>>All Right! a bonefide authority in the house!  Aside from the issue of
>slipping clutches, is there any truth to the sales pitches of motorcycle
>oils having a more stable shear factor, doesn't get its long chain
>hydrocarbons broken down by the straight cut gears and clutch?  I
personally
>think that its a bunch of bunk, because my Rodeo tranny and transfer case
>both have straight cut gears, and use 5w-30 mineral oil for lube.  I can't
>see the and pressure being great enough, and the tolerances being small
>enough to "shear" the hydrocarbon chains in the oil at the microscopic
>level, as I've heard from countless parts guys at motorcycle dealers.
>
>Hey, I don't want to stir any hornets nests, and don't want to debate, I
>just want the straight dope.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff



Jeff,
    I was told " off the record" that the shearing of modern mineral oil
polymer chains is not really as much of a factor now, due to modern blend
multi-grade mineral oils having shorter chains than the oils of just a few
years ago. Also, the tolerances and pressures in most internal combustion
engines (including wet clutches) are not such that "polymer chain shearing"
is really a factor. I was told the "shearing" statements were more for
advertising than anything, although there is some basis for it in racing
applications. Synthetics do have shorter chains, and in racing and very high
stress situations, the synthetics have the properties to hold up better, but
in standard use motorcycles and regular oil changes, one is as good as
another.
   As far as oil and filter changes go, here was what the reps all agreed
on:    { Mineral oil }- for engines that are infrequently ran, sit days at a
time, and or frequent short distance driving, due to condensation and oil
temps not being at operating temps long enough (30 minutes or more) to burn
off moisture and acids, and dusty riding conditions, changes should be no
more than the engine manufacturer`s recommended time between, depending on
severity of the conditions, even shorter if conditions warrant, or 4 months,
which ever comes first. If the engine is regularly run and not prone to days
of inactivity, longer intervals can be had, but not recommended, and the
filter should be changed at the original recommended mileage. This is based
on research and field studies. They considered the filter changes as
important. They asked why you would run clean oil through a filter that is
saturated with contaminants.Contaminants excelerate wear and degrade
lubricating properties. This has been documented by every oil company and
engine manufacturer, not to mention SAE. If anyone disputes this research,
take it up with them. I don`t believe everything I hear, but there is too
much research and documentation by third parties for me to take a chance
ignoring their recommendations. I know Tom disagrees with this, and I
respect his opinion, but I`ve seen too many studies and worked on too many
engines to feel otherwise.
   The biggest fact that has been ignored, and that I wasn`t even aware of
till this last seminar, was that one of the most important reasons for
frequent oil changes is that while the base oil remains fairly stable for
many thousands of miles, the additives (viscosity modifiers, corrosion
inhibitors, detergents and bonding agents in multi-grades ) burn off and
wear out. This has been easily verified by oil analysis by mileage
increments. In other words, at 5000 miles, the oil in your engine is not the
same matrix as when it was fresh.
    { Synthetics} Same recommended change intervals, although tests have
verified that doubled change intervals have not shown any increased wear
over a standard recommended interval as long as the filter was changed at
the original recommended interval. They did recommend that upon first using
the synthetic oil, to change at the earliest recommended time, due to the
cleaning properties of synthetic oils. They also remind that the same holds
true for the synthetics as to the additives wearing out and dissipating as
quickly as in the mineral oils.
    Note: The clutch slippage problem was more of a factor in the older
synthetics ,due to considerably larger concentrations of heavy metals,
phosphorus and moly. This is no longer as much of a factor with newer
synthetic formulas, although there are still some companies that haven`t
updated their blends. Mobil, Shell, Pennzoil, Texaco and Castrol, I`ve been
told, have updated formulas.
    To quickly address the stories of cab companies and others who regularly
run 30 to 100 thousand miles between oil changes, I was told that some of
the oil companies have actually monitored these practices and there were
factors to consider. These vehicles are run every day, all day long. The
conditions are usually not considered "dirty", the vehicles don`t sit cold,
in other words, no condensation and non-particulate contaminants are
regularly burned off. The big factor is that the filters were religiously
changed.  Also, these vehicles are regularly maintained and have regular top
end preventive maintenance done. Another factor was, that most of these
engines eventually become highly consumptive of oil, and may use a quart or
two a day. You do the math. Do you really think that at 2 quarts a day, that
by the time they even get 10 miles, that the original oil is even present?
    Take this for what it`s worth to you.

 It`s too late now, but tomorrow night I`ll post what I was told about use
of automotive oils in motorcycles and some of the propaganda that has been
told by some of the manufacturers.


 Skip

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:59:06 -0800
From: Christopher J Beasley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Airbox venting

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 3/15/99 11:46:29 AM Central Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I drilled 12 1" holes in the top of the box and filled them with
> unifilters...I had to
>  split the backbone to get the airbox out... >>
> I read somewhere of a guy that used a 1/2 " copper union, heated it with a
> propane torch and pushed its end against the air cleaner box plastic and gave
> it a slight twist which burned out an exact 1"  hole for the unifilter with no
> mess. Anyone try it?

I'm thinking you'd want a 1" piece of copper wouldn't ya?beez

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:29:13 -0500
From: Bill Wright <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650)Tank Bags

After perusing over 150 messages in the archives about tank bags, most
about a year old, I am about to make a purchase myself.  According to
those with tank bags last year, the Eclipse Contour Magnetic bag, the
Teknic Magnetic bag, the Wolfman Magnetic bag, and the Kawi bag were
some of the most popular.  I would like to hear from those of you who
are using a tank bag that you are SATISFIED with.  No complaints please.
Apparently the Kawi bag fell from grace after extended use by some. Even
if you are using one of the above mentioned bags and like it, I would
appreciate hearing from you.  Also I am using the Aerostich tank
panniers and would require a bag that will not interfere with the
panniers.  I could not find anyone in the old messages that said they
were using a Chase Harper bag.  Is there anything wrong with them. ?

Bill Wright
Hotlanta, GA.
98 KLR650 - "Special K" - 22,600 miles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:47:23 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) Braking Physics

In a message dated 3/15/99 11:21:02 PM Central Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Thanks Tim for the in-depth discussion on braking physics.  I was wondering
 if you could also explain how and why a floating disc (rotor) such as the
 MAP aftermarket item for the KLR is superior to a one-piece disc in braking
 power.  TIA, Darrel A12 >>
I'm not Tim, but I have the same braking system on two bikes, however one is
full floating an the other is fixed. The floater stops significantly better
with less effort because the rotor can slide over a little as the pad behind
the piston is pressed against the rotor, aslso most floaters have pistons on
both side of the rotor. Frank

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:54 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) Airbox venting

A one inch coupling is more than one inch. The half inch coupling is correct.
remember, with copper pipe, the dimension is inside diameter so the pipe
itself is probably 3/4" and the coupling has to go over that so it is the 1"
that is needed.Frank

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:02:46 -0800
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Questions, Questions, Questions - NKLR

,
>With regards to your piece of wood example, the total weight applied by the
>board is the same in both scenarios (it's own weight).  On edge, the
contact
>area is less, but the pressure is higher.  On its face, the contact area is
>greater, but the pressure is lower.  In both cases, the total normal force
is
>the same (pressure x area), therefore the frictional force is the same.  In
>the comparison of the brake rotor, I was assuming that the brake fluid
>pressure was constant in both comparisons, resulting in a higher normal
force
>for the larger pad vs. the smaller pad.  This would cause the frictional
force
>to be greater for the larger pad than the smaller one.
>Greg, A2

If the fluid pressure is the same, then the force applied to the brake
calipers is the same, therefore the force applied to the brake pads is the
same, and since the area is larger, the pressure between the pads and the
rotor surface is smaller, not larger.  Draw the free body diagram and you'll
see its true.   Pressure isn't part of the equation for determining the
non-conservative fritional force, only the applied force which results in
the normal force, and the coefficient of kinetic friction.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:11:16 -0800
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR:  Windsor, Ontario

>
>
>-Tom
>found out what open-pit mining looks like in Sudbury, and it aint all that
>pretty.
>'96 KLR 650


Ever seen the copper mine south of Salt Lake City?  Largest hole in the
world, and that ain't no shit.  Its the environmentalists vision of pure
hell.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:24:13 -0800
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: Insurance (WA)

>Our bikes have nowhere near the destructive power of an SUV thus should not
>require as much insurance.
>
What I meant to say is that its the motorcycle equivalent of an SUV.

>If we don't ALL (cagers included) start fighting them instead of
>fingerpointing amongst ourselves we're just gonna pay for more skyscrapers.
>
>
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind buying motorcycle insurance, if they
offered good medical coverage, like they do for car insurance.  But when I
went and bought "full coverage" insurance for my bike, the max medical
coverage that they would give me for rider or passenger was only $5000, even
for liability insurance for my passenger, which I doubt would cover a
hospital stay.  If they want to mandate insurance, then they need to have
this available.  I have a relative that is very high up in one of the local
major insurance companies, and she said that they don't make any money
underwriting car policies....yeah right!

Jeff

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End of klr650-digest V2 #135
****************************