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klr650-digest        Friday, October 22 1999        Volume 02 : Number 1052



RE: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval
RE: (klr650) Ode to Arne's Big Gun.....NKLR
(klr650) Hola Listmeister!   NKLR
(klr650)Update: Cam Chain and Top End
RE: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)
RE: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval
RE: (klr650)Update: Cam Chain and Top End
RE: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte
RE: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:36:05 -0600
From: Bogdan Swider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)

    Do you guys drain the oil while It's hot? Do you live in a humid
climate? This sure sounds weird to me. Bogdan

        This happens to me every oil change.  It freaked me out the
first time
    it happened.  It did it on my Ninja EX500 while I owned and
maintained it
    and does it on my KLR.  Try this, go for a decently long ride and
then check
    it again, you'll find that the 'problem' cures itself.  Maybe it has
    something to do with condensation or something, who knows.  I don't
pay any
    attention to it anymore, accepting that it is normal.

    FWIW
    Karl


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:44:38 -0400
From: Ian Cariolo <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval

>Bob, I checked mine at 500, 1500, 3000, and 6,000. It needed adjustment
>at each interval...

I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still relatively new here. WHY
shims? Screw-type adjusters are so much easier, and there's no replacement
of anything, except for maybe the cam chain. Shims just seem to be such a
pain in the ass. It isn't because it would increase the height of the
cylinder, is it?


lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Ian Cariolo
1985 VF700F Interceptor
1986 Kawasaki KL600B
Duxbury, MA
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:44:35 -0600
From: Bogdan Swider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Ode to Arne's Big Gun.....NKLR

    Dawn, While cabareting the other night I met a lady that said she
knew you in Las Vegas years ago. Do you remember someone called Anita Mann?
Bogdan


    >
    > >Man! Dawn, you`ve got to stop this.I just got downstairs to read
some
    posts
    > >while the house warms up and now I`m flushed and almost sweating.
Who
    needs
    > >a woodstove when I can read posts like this.
    >

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:48:31 -0700
From: "e. rhoads" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Hola Listmeister!   NKLR

So Arne,

      Are there any problems with the mail server lately?  Have you been
getting any reports of dropped emails?  It seems to me that not everything
is coming through.

eric


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:48:33 -0400
From: Mark <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650)Update: Cam Chain and Top End

Here's what I noticed on this morning's commute:

1)The bike took a little longer to warm up.

2)The popping noise while coasting on a cold engine has dissapeared.

3)The bike is still a bit jerky, mainly when rolling on the throttle, but
less jerky than before. ANY CLUES??

4)The bike runs more smoothly overall, especially in the midrange and while
lugging the engine (not general practice, just a test), but I think I lost
some top end as it now takes longer to accelerate from 85 to 95 mph.

5) I'm not sure my messing with the intake timing had an effect either way.
Before I did it, the intake was slightly retarded (3-4 degrees?) anyway if
I had the exaust cam arrow on the money.  I think that a single cam can be
off by as much as 10 degrees and the engine will still run properly.
Mark
B2
A2



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:52:19 -0400
From: Ian Cariolo <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)

At 07:36 AM 10/22/99 -0600, you wrote:

My email server is constipated, so sorry if this reply is too late.

>Do you guys drain the oil while It's hot? Do you live in a humid
>climate? This sure sounds weird to me. Bogdan


No, the condensation stems from how the vehicle is operated. As a
by-product of combustion, there is condensation. This is why inner-city
cars MUST have their oil changed more often than a highway-driven car. If
oil doesn't have a chance to reach normal operating temperature, the
condensation doesn't burn off. This is why I suggest to anyone who has a
vehicle that only sees in-town use to get on the highway and get the engine
hot, and the same philosophy also applies to exhaust systems. The exhaust
needs to get hot enough to burn off the condensation. Also, in a car,
less-than-operating-temperature oil also becomes acidic. So yes, you can
subscribe to the 'my owners manual recommends oil changes at 7500 miles',
but only if the car is used for more than 30 minutes at a time.


lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Ian Cariolo
1985 VF700F Interceptor
1986 Kawasaki KL600B
Duxbury, MA
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Visit the KLR650 archives at
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Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
for info.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:56:39 -0600
From: Bogdan Swider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte

    My A9 didn't need any shim changes till 19k and even then the
offending valves were only slightly off. As I've mentioned in past
posts/whines I believe having the tolerances checked at 4k & 10k stripped my
cam cover bolts. Bogdan


    >>My bike now has 8000 miles on it.  Do I need to check the valves
again
    this
    winter while the bike is in storage?
    Thanks.
    Bob Kaub<<

    You'll probably get lots of opinions on this one.  My KLR has 12k on
its
    current valve adjustment, I *might* check them this winter.  I don't
open up
    engines unless I absolutely have too (except for oil changes and
stuf like
    that).   I personally wouldn't bother with them for another 5K or
so.  FWIW,
    this is only my opinion on the KL engines and engines that have shim

    adjustment.  Locknut/screw adjusted valves get more but still
infrequent
    attention.

    Gino


    Visit the KLR650 archives at
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Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:57:23 -0400
From: Mark <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval

>> My bike now has 8000 miles on it.  Do I need to check the valves again
>this
>> winter while the bike is in storage?
>> Thanks.
>> Bob Kaub

I'd check 'em since you won't really have to worry about down time with the
bike. Also, It will put your mind at ease when Spring comes. You won't be
saying to  yourself all summer, "Gee I should probably check my valves" and
end up doing it on a pristine July afternoon while your friends are all
riding.
Mark
B2
A2




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 7:51:00 -0600
From: "Pokluda, Gino" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte

>>I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still relatively new here. WHY
shims? Screw-type adjusters are so much easier, and there's no replacement
of anything, except for maybe the cam chain. Shims just seem to be such a
pain in the ass. It isn't because it would increase the height of the
cylinder, is it?<<

I used to wonder about this also.  I also noticed that most if not all
liquid cooled engines have shim adjustment.  As a matter of fact, I can't
think of a single liquid cooled engine that has screw adjusters.  Why is
that? Maybe one of our panel of experts can answer that question.  Also, it
seems Kawasaki is a little anal about valve adjustments.  They recommend
valve adjustment intervals of 6K miles for my ZRX.  A friend of mine who has
a ZRX with 22K miles says that his valves have yet to need adjustment!


Gino


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:00:19 -0600
From: "Fred Hink" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Cariolo <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval


> >Bob, I checked mine at 500, 1500, 3000, and 6,000. It needed adjustment
> >at each interval...
>
> I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still relatively new here. WHY
> shims? Screw-type adjusters are so much easier, and there's no replacement
> of anything, except for maybe the cam chain. Shims just seem to be such a
> pain in the ass. It isn't because it would increase the height of the
> cylinder, is it?


Shims are used in the KLR engine because it has double overhead cams.  To be
able to use a screw adjuster on this arrangement would not be practicle.  It
is much more efficient to use shims with the cam directly over the valves
than to use some sort of rocker arm assembly.  The more mass you have to
move to open and close the valves the less rpms you can make and the more
wear and adjustments you will need.

Fred


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:00:16 -0600
From: Bogdan Swider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650)Update: Cam Chain and Top End

I wonder what Sir Elden of Carl would say about all of this. Bogdan




    Here's what I noticed on this morning's commute:

    1)The bike took a little longer to warm up.

    2)The popping noise while coasting on a cold engine has dissapeared.

    3)The bike is still a bit jerky, mainly when rolling on the
throttle, but
    less jerky than before. ANY CLUES??

    4)The bike runs more smoothly overall, especially in the midrange
and while
    lugging the engine (not general practice, just a test), but I think
I lost
    some top end as it now takes longer to accelerate from 85 to 95 mph.

    5) I'm not sure my messing with the intake timing had an effect
either way.
    Before I did it, the intake was slightly retarded (3-4 degrees?)
anyway if
    I had the exaust cam arrow on the money.  I think that a single cam
can be
    off by as much as 10 degrees and the engine will still run properly.
    Mark
    B2
    A2



    Visit the KLR650 archives at
    http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
    Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
    for info.

Visit the KLR650 archives at
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
for info.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:06:04 -0600
From: Bogdan Swider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte

    Doesn't the Yamaha engine on the Muz have screw adjusters?? Bogdan

    I used to wonder about this also.  I also noticed that most if not
all
    liquid cooled engines have shim adjustment.  As a matter of fact, I
can't
    think of a single liquid cooled engine that has screw adjusters.
Why is
    that? Maybe one of our panel of experts can answer that question.
Also, it
    seems Kawasaki is a little anal about valve adjustments.  They
recommend
    valve adjustment intervals of 6K miles for my ZRX.  A friend of mine
who has
    a ZRX with 22K miles says that his valves have yet to need
adjustment!


    Gino


    Visit the KLR650 archives at
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Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:09:56 -0600
From: "Fred Hink" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Pokluda, Gino <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte


Kawasaki is a little anal about valve adjustments.  They recommend
> valve adjustment intervals of 6K miles for my ZRX.  A friend of mine who
has
> a ZRX with 22K miles says that his valves have yet to need adjustment!


I still believe it is all how you drive your bike.  If you lug your engine
all the time, you will have tight valve clearances and if you rev your bike
to the moon all the time then you will have loose valves.  If you keep your
bike in the happy medium range then your valve clearances usually stay in
spec much longer.

Fred   (just my opinion and not based on any scientific facts)


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:12:49 -0400
From: Mark <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval

>I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still relatively new here. WHY
>shims? Screw-type adjusters are so much easier, and there's no replacement
>of anything, except for maybe the cam chain. Shims just seem to be such a
>pain in the ass. It isn't because it would increase the height of the
>cylinder, is it?

I believe screw type adjusters need adjustment more often. Also, a double
overhead cam four vavle system with screw adjusters and rocker arms would
lead to one big fat head. The biggest pain in the ass about shims is making
sure you have the ones you need if you need to change them. I bought half a
dozen shims of assorted sizes from Fred Hink at $3 each just so I don't
have to beg dealers to exchange them or sell me some. I also have four
shims from a parts bike, so I'm all set do do an adjustment on a Sunday
afternoon if I need to.
Mark
B2
A2




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:16:31 -0400
From: Mark <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte

>I still believe it is all how you drive your bike.  If you lug your engine
>all the time, you will have tight valve clearances and if you rev your bike
>to the moon all the time then you will have loose valves.  If you keep your
>bike in the happy medium range then your valve clearances usually stay in
>spec much longer.
>
>Fred   (just my opinion and not based on any scientific facts)

That means I can lug it half the time and redline it the other half :)
Mark
B2
A2



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:17:55 -0600
From: Bogdan Swider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)

    I agree Ian, but it's short trips and long rests that do it not the
stop & go in traffic. As a guy who was dumb enough to drive taxis in both
Chicago and New York I can tell you that taxi engines often last 100's of k
miles. That's cause they rarely cool down. Which is why I asked those dudes
if they drained the oil hot. You're right that humidity probably effects
nothing but it didn't hurt to ask. Bogdan

    No, the condensation stems from how the vehicle is operated. As a
    by-product of combustion, there is condensation. This is why
inner-city
    cars MUST have their oil changed more often than a highway-driven
car.

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------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V2 #1052
*****************************