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klr650-digest         Monday, December 7 1998         Volume 01 : Number 397




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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:06:42 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Allan Phipps)
Subject: (klr650) Thanks!!

As a novice KLR owner, I really appreciate all the great advice you all
have given me over the last few weeks.  Thanks!!

Al

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 23:05:24 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alex Yefimov)
Subject: (klr650) (KLR):Slow Speeds

It seem that my KLR is very "jerky" at 25mph and below. This seems to be
independent of the gear I am in. When I get it up to 35mph the ride
smooths out. Is this a feature of the KLR or is there something not quite
right? Could it be that the chain needs lubing? The bike was not ridden
for 6 months before I bought it Friday. I have not had a chance to lube
the chain.

Alex
A11 - San Jose


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:05:37 -0700
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Front End stuff from archives...

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
<[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: (klr650) Front End update


>I am doing the same upgrade, the trick is removing the inner fork leg to
>remove and install the fork seals, finally took them to the dealer to install
>the seals the progresive springs are a snap to install ,  just followed the
>procedures posted.  I have a question on spacer length, progessive states to
>make them 4.5 inches unless you want longer, question is I am 250 lbs plus
>gear, should I leave them at 5 inches or cut them to 4.5 inches.   Enjoy the
>list serve greatly as it has saved me from many mistakes on what or not to do.
>Live in near South Padre Island, Texas ( Brownsville) if any one is off to
>Mexico through here stop by for a chat. (Not many KLR's in South Texas.)
>Larry
>

More archive posts on spacers:
__________________________________

Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:42:01 -0600
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Fork spacers...

>While we're on the subject of forks, can someone tell me the length of the
>preload spacers in the stock KLR forks, and the length of ones you use with
>the Progressive springs? I
>
>thanks,
>jim

The stock KLR650 spacers are 5 1/2 inches and Progressive calls for 4 1/2
inches with the install...1 inch less.  BTW, They call for 5 inches on the
KLR600 but I don't know the stock KLR600 length.

Kurt

______________________

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:59:51 -0400
From: "Rick Clarke" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Fork Spacers

> A shorter spacer will reduce preload on your fork springs which (assuming
> they are not linear springs) will make them feel softer.  Using a shorter
> spacer with the progressive spring kit simply makes up for the fact the
> progressive springs are longer than the stock Kawasaki parts.  Otherwise
> you'd be adding an inch of preload to them that was not externally
> adjustable making them significantly stiffer.

Baloney. Shortening or lengthening the spacer changes the ride
height, not the spring rate. Any change in stiffness will only be due
to the different air volume at that particular height.

When you get on the bike, the spring will compress the same distance
regardless of the spacer length. You want the fork to compress about
3" (1/3 of the 9" travel) from full extension with the bike fully
loaded. If it compresses further than that, make the spacer longer by
the amount the fork is overcompressed.

It's simple physics. It's surprising how many people don't understand
it. If you are balancing on top of a spring, it doesn't matter if you
are wearing sandals or platform shoes, the spring rate is the same.
Keep in mind the spring preload keeps the spring compressed when the
weight is removed from the bike. With the weight of the rider and
bike, the suspension floats.

- - -Rick

R.P.Clarke ([e-mail])
"What traffic?"
RTP, NC, USA    DoD#5811

___________________________
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:08:47 -0600
From: "Vikram Banerjee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Fork Spacers

- - ----------
> From: Jeffrey L. Walker <[e-mail]>
> To: Rick Clarke <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (klr650) Fork Spacers
> Date: Monday, May 25, 1998 5:54 PM
> Where I am confused is in the meaning of "progressive springs"  All
springs
> require a progressively greater force to compress (or lengthen) them past
> equilibrium.  By progressive, do the manufacturers mean that the spring
> constant, k,  is in fact not a constant, and increases with the
displacement
> past equilibrium?

My understanding of progressive springs are springs with more than one
spring rate (k).  The advantage is you can have a soft initial spring rate
for comfy riding and a stiffer spring rate deeper into the compression for
big hits.  If you preload a spring like this you compress part or all of
the soft initial spring travel resulting in a stiffer fork.

I do want to clarify something.  If you compress a constant rate (linear)
spring, say 1/10 its total length, it should not feel any stiffer when you
compress the next 1/10th or the next 1/10th as the spring rate remains
constant.  I sthis correct?

Cheers,

Vik
_______________________
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:58:16 -0600
From: "Vikram Banerjee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Fork Spacers

- - ----------
> From: Rick Clarke <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (klr650) Fork Spacers
> Date: Monday, May 25, 1998 4:59 PM
>
>
> > A shorter spacer will reduce preload on your fork springs which
(assuming
> > they are not linear springs) will make them feel softer.  Using a
shorter
> > spacer with the progressive spring kit simply makes up for the fact the
> > progressive springs are longer than the stock Kawasaki parts.
Otherwise
> > you'd be adding an inch of preload to them that was not externally
> > adjustable making them significantly stiffer.
>
> Baloney. Shortening or lengthening the spacer changes the ride
> height, not the spring rate. Any change in stiffness will only be due
> to the different air volume at that particular height.

If you note I said assuming the spring is not a linear spring which means
it has to be a multi-rate spring.  Typical multi-rate springs used in bikes
have two or three spring rates each progressively stiffer than the next.
As you apply preload to this spring you compress the softest portion.  The
result is when you get on the bike and hit a bump you have less travel from
that soft rate spring and start compressing the next stiffer rate portion
of the spring - the fork is less plush.

If you had a linear rate spring I would agree with you.  As you compress a
linear rate spring the stiffness does not change you just shorten the
spring length.  As far as air volume goes I am not sure that makes any
difference.  I think it is the air pressure of the air in the fork that
matters, but I am not sure about that.

Now as far as baloney or other luch meats affecting the fork I suppose it
could, but you'd have to eat an awful lot to see a real difference.

_________________
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:54:03 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Fork Spacers

I think that you are both partially right.  The force of a spring, F, is
equal to the minus the spring constant, k, (which is determined by the
physical properties of the spring) times the amount that the spring is
displaced from equilibrium, X.  Thus: F = -(kX).  This implies that the more
the spring is displaced from equilibrium, i.e. using a longer spacer, the
more force will be exerted by the spring, and thus the "stiffer" the forks
will feel.  This has a direct affect on the ride height, as the ride height
is determined by the balance between the force of gravity acting on the bike
and rider combined, and the force due to the fork springs upward.  The act
of the forks lengthening is due to the force of the springs.  This motion is
opposed not only my the force of gravity, but by the hydraulic mechanisms in
the fork.  These hydraulics dampen the fork's motion.  Without them,
neglecting friction, the forks would bounce up and down forever, which is
why the oil weight and volume are so important, as these determine the
dampening action of the forks.  The volume of air in the top of the forks
above the oil is compressible, and thus also acts like a spring, with the
exception that the gas would expand to infinity if given the chance, in a
vacuum.  Thus pressurizing the forks will add more spring force to the
shocks.

Where I am confused is in the meaning of "progressive springs"  All springs
require a progressively greater force to compress (or lengthen) them past
equilibrium.  By progressive, do the manufacturers mean that the spring
constant, k,  is in fact not a constant, and increases with the displacement
past equilibrium?

Jeff

________________

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:18:08 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Progressive fork spring oil level

In a message dated 98-06-19 03:47:38 EDT, [e-mail] writes:

<< Or, was this
 noted, but 5.5 inches works better than 6.7 inches?  If the progressive
 spring displaces more oil than the stock spring, and the manual calls for
 6.7 inches originally, then the difference in oil volume between stock
 springs and level, and Progressive springs and 5.5 inches is quite a lot. >>

 I have the 5.5" level in my forks and they feel pretty good, maybe a bit on
the stiff side.  I think the answer is at least to 6.7" level but not more
than 5.5".  I will be installing the small progressive springs that replace
the preload spacer and will report on those in a week or so.

Gino

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:09:21 -0700
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) I'm heeeere  (NKLR)

><< doesn`t know what austere means, but it sounds
>
> good >>
>
>It's either a part of human anatomy or something that goes in a carburetor.  I
>think.
>
>Gino


Sorry Skip, a guy like Gino who gets a new (or used) bike about as often as I
get a six-pack is not austere...

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:28:04 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail] (Conall O'Brien)
Subject: (klr650) No Cal KLR Weekend+Super TT

Tough decision- SF ,CA show dec11-13 or final race of the SuperTT at
buttonwillow Dec.13th? I'm thinking about doing both.
http://www.motorcycleshows.com/sf.cfm
http://members.aolcom/CW1Canet/SuperTT.html  .Since Buttonwllow is about
the half-way point between No and SoCal, think we have time to organize
a statewide meeting in Buttonwillow on Sunday? Hiro?

Conall --DIGEST
Fremont CA.
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:39:41 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (klr650) (no subject)

Yes,it"s the bike of Jim the father!!!!!!
On the list today,Paul Christenson is talking about a listers gathering for
the moto
show this W.E
What do you think????
[e-mail]
guy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:40:24 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail] (Conall O'Brien)
Subject: (klr650) klr650 re:Jerky under 35 mph

Alex-
Glad you finally bought a KLR!
Check your chain tension, with the suspension loaded down with your
normal riding weight. Sounds like the tension of the chain may not be
right. A good lube wouldn't hurt either. I keep my chain slack 1 1/2
inches to 2 inches peak to peak measurement while I sit on the bike.
Dirt bikes (and KLR's ) have so much travel in the rear suspension, that
the chain tension varies with the load on the bike.
It is very important not to have the chain too tight,better to be on the
loose side as long as your chain and sprockets are good.

Conall --DIGEST
Fremont CA.
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:46:58 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail] (Conall O'Brien)
Subject: (klr650) NKLR :SuperTT URL

Whoops- Correct URL is
http://members.aol.com/CW1Canet/SuperTT.html  for this weekends race.

Conall --DIGEST
Fremont CA.
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:06:25 -0500
From: Steve Rottenberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Thanks!!

Ehem ... that'll be $5. :)
Please make a direct deposit at National Bank of Tampa C/O KLR SmartAss
Listers acct 12-3456-789101112.
Thanks a lot for your cooperation.


 Allan Phipps wrote:
>As a novice KLR owner, I really appreciate all the great advice you all
>have given me over the last few weeks.  Thanks!!
>
>Al

Steve in Tampa  (Asking himself if his wittiness comes from the brits of
the Bandit list also)
98 B12
95 KLR 650 A9


Steve Rottenberg
Tuca en IRC (Undernet)
Email: [e-mail]
Don't take life so seriously ... it's not  permanent.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:18:50 -0700
From: "skip faulkner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) no ice studs

>>   I might as well do something 2-wheel oriented, since I can`t ride my
bike
>>now, due to the #*&%*# ice all over the roads now, and my lovely SO has
>>banned the ice studs this year (had too many close calls winter before
last,
>>cars slid into me on two occasions)
>>and I was all ready to install them. So, Seattle it is.
>>
>>   Skip (No studs for me, none for her)
>>
>>
>I have been thinking of installing studs for when the roads get slick. What
>kind of studs did you use in what tires how install etc, etc.
>Thanks Alan Henderson, Iowa A13


Alan,
   I`ve used two styles, depending on amount of dry asphalt you`ll be on.
    I presently use a  Bridgestone TW40R rear tire and a TW39F front tire,
from an NX650 I had. I`ve used sheetmetal screws with a 1/4" raised hex head
that has sharp raised edges. I used to find them at hardware stores in
high-grade steel and they held up pretty good. I see Dennis Kirk sells them
for ATV tires . The trick is to work up to the number and spacing that is
not to aggressive for asphalt ( rough ride) but not to few so as to rip them
out.
   The others I`ve tried, but take longer to install, (once in, I leave them
in the tire for good) are carbide snowcat studs. I`ve been buying them from
Dennis Kirk, but they all have to be ground down, because they are to long
for occasional asphalt and hard ice use. I prefer to start with 3/16" and
periodically keep them sharp with a file. When you install them on the tire,
place a tire patch over the backing plate of each one, it will help prevent
the tube from being rubbed.
    Remember, depending on the number and lengths you use, you can`t drive
like you normally do. In most cases, if you`re not careful, the traction is
so good, you`ll spin the wheel in the tire and shear the valve stem. Stay
away from the front brake until you get some practice in the process of
braking. If you bottom out, you`ll either eat up your fender or your tire
will lock up, or both.
    The main thing to remember is that you can stop much better than a car
and take icy curves better, but the danger is that the boxes can`t stop as
well. Winter before last, I was run into on two occasions. The first time I
was sitting at a stop light and was rear-ended. The second, a car slid
through a stop sign and clipped my rear tire. Both times I came out ok, but
had I not been vigilant and aware of my vulnerability, I could have easily
been e-mailing this from above, ( yes, I plan on taking my A9 with me when I
go).
    So if you are going to experiment with the spikes or screws, go easy and
be careful. You think cars don`t look for motorcycles under normal
circumstances, wait till you`re riding in traffic with them on ice and
snowpacked roads. When they do see you, they`ll do a double take. Doing this
is very dangerous even under the best of conditions and I don`t recommend
it, but if you insist on doing it, remember the odds are against you if you
are going to share the road with a car. I recommend staying offroad with the
spikes. It`s really a blast tooling up a trail with a foot of snow and
you`ve got traction like a cat.
     Be safe.

   Skip (who`s wife thinks his life is more important than
              having fun. Gimme a break

------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V1 #397
****************************