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klr650-digest       Wednesday, November 18 1998       Volume 01 : Number 362




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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:26:54 -0700
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Piaa Xtra White # 15680

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Rottenberg <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 7:15 PM
Subject: (klr650) Piaa Xtra White # 15680


>>links, Some of them had the bulbs advertised for $52 for a pair, The one
>thing that differs from your post is the part #, u listed it as 15080, and
>they had 15680, for a 80/80 = 115/135 H4 bulb.

This url lists the 15080 at $35.95 and the 15680 (2) at $69.95.  Maybe it is the
same bulb in packages of two...
http://www.autobahnint.com/AIM_store/Html/PIAA/PIAA_HTML/PIAA_Bulbs.htm


Kurt A12
Bountiful, UT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:36:53 -0500
From: "J.Taylor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Skip's breaker plan

I was scanning archived posts tonight and realized that I may have
missed Skip's breaker install to replace the KLR's fuse. Has that been
posted somewhere? I recently installed a set of Hella lamps (an upgrade
from the previous running lamps I was running) in serial and would like
the security of the breaker just in case.

Jake in Jacksonville

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:51:47 -0700
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Skip's breaker plan

>I was scanning archived posts tonight and realized that I may have
>missed Skip's breaker install to replace the KLR's fuse. Has that been
>posted somewhere? I recently installed a set of Hella lamps (an upgrade
>from the previous running lamps I was running) in serial and would like
>the security of the breaker just in case.
>
>Jake in Jacksonville


You haven't missed it Jake...he's been too busy hunting elk, trying to keep his
marriage together, keepin all the planes in the northwest in the air where they
belong, helping everyone on the DUST list keep their bikes lubed correctly, and
tonight, watching the meteor shower.

Redondo Ron and I have offered ourselves up as guinea pigs for "son of breaker
install" we plan on doing digital pics and then passing it on to Gino and then
Bill for the website...We've asked him to post it privately for that reason. Let
me know if you want in on the first round of Dr. Moreau's experiments.....

Kurt A12
Bountiful, UT just south of Fruit Heights

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:34:30 -0700
From: "Josh Sammons" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) (nklr650) Life Above the 45th Parallel

God I envy you.
Josh
'92klr650
- -----Original Message-----
From:    [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Juan Villarreal
Sent:    Tuesday, November 17, 1998 4:57 PM
To:    [e-mail]
Cc:    [e-mail]
Subject:    (klr650) (nklr650) Life Above the 45th Parallel


Weather here is 85 degrees, somewhat humid, with hypnotic visions of
scantily clad, beautifully tanned Panamanian & Colombian women
presenting the only real road hazard.  I feel for you man...

Juan Villarreal, '97 KLR
"El Lobo Solo"
Panama City, Panama (waaaay south of Northern Ontario)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:57:39 -0700
From: Tony <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Screaming Brakes

I didn't get the screaming brake at first,  it showed up after a hundred
miles or so.  An old biker friend told me that the pads vibrate and I
should try putting RTV on them to dampen these oscillations.  I gooped
them up with RTV and then installed them so that the calipers adhered to
the glue.  It worked!  No more screaming front brake.

I drilled out the main jet to something close to a #155.  Adjusted the
mix valve to 2 &1/2 turns out, and I have your old Super Trap
Installed.  I tried the no air box lid, and I started to get some  real
bad sounds coming from the head during heavy acceleration with high
rpms.  Kind of funny, this knocking is non existent during the cold
morning commute.  Guess cold air is ok for it.  Bike is much faster in
this condition, however
I reinstalled the airbox cover and haven't heard the knocking since.
 By the way, Im amazed at how fast the filter gets dirty riding it on
the street.  Maybe time for a K&N.
Tony

[e-mail] wrote:

> I had the door removed from the airbox
> that served the same purpose as putting
> holes in the box. the jetting is changed
> from stock I think I was up to a size #155
> main jet. also the reason you buy the
> actual jetting kit is to get the different
> tapered needle jet. the shop people seem
> to not be too knowledgable as far as hop
> up work to these bikes. not much interest
> or money to be made. that is where the
> web site for the newsletter comes in
> handy. that is the best place to seek
> advice on these bikes. If you have never
> visited the site it is at
> www.geocities.com/klr~dsn
> I am curious as to what caused the
> vibration problem when you installed the
> rotor. let me know what you did with the
> RTV that helped?
> jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:23:37 -0500
From: Tom Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR v. KLX

At 06:56 PM 11/17/98 -0700, [e-mail] wrote:
>Someone mentioned that the KLX has/had a more advanced engine. Care to
elaborate?



    I dont claim to be an expert on the KLX, but from what I gather it is a
more highly strung machine. I have also been lead to belive that the KLX
top end is more fragile than the KLRs.



- -Tom
dislikes high strung machinery
'96 KLR 650





>Tom Simpson wrote:
>
>> At 09:08 PM 11/16/98 -0500, Mark wrote:
>> >Hey Kids,
>> >
>> >I'm aware of the differences between a standard KLR and a Tengai. However,
>> >aside from the beefier suspension and smaller gas tank, what else is
>> >different about the KLX-650?
>>
>>         Everything. The engines may seem identical at first glance, but
closer
>> inspection will reveal that, while very similar in overal layout and
>> design, they are completly different motors. Same with ther rest of the
>> bike. The turn signal lenses seem to be the same. Other than that, I cant
>> think of another part that would interchange.
>>
>> -Tom
>> '96 KLR 650
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:37:20 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail] (Francis Smith)
Subject: Fwd: Re: (klr650) NKLR - NHTSA  defects/recalls

- --WebTV-Mail-1395864009-4441
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    ETAuAhUAvflCnzRFBNZ+6bK6dmpzABKG3mgCFQCq78vPqaF1kicEPKcT+6/231VEzw==
From: [e-mail] (Francis Smith)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:35:48 -0800 (PST)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR - NHTSA  defects/recalls
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

Dr. Robert:

I wish you'd just speak your mind about the
NHTSA and quit beating around the bush!.


I'm with you 100%.

Jim - Palmdale


- --WebTV-Mail-1395864009-4441--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:47:16 -0700
From: "skip faulkner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: NKLR Oil and Filters

>Hi Skip,
>
>Thanks for the detailed response.  A lot can be said about oil.......by
>salesfolk and scientists and hobbyists alike.  Discussing it can amount to
>volumes and there is no shortage of BS to sift thru as you're well aware.
>I never intended to spend so much time on the *first* response.......  Also
.
>
>I have no argument that a filter enhances the usable life of an engine.
>BUT until the point where it plugs up and starts to bypass, a new filter
>works no better than an old one, and possibly worse.  The issue then
>becomes "how long can you run it before it's plugged", provided plugging is
>an issue
 .  Sludge could do it, but
>I've never seen any sludge whatsoever in my motorcycles.
>

 .  There's no visible goober on the pleats >No sediment in the  Nothing
short of a flow-test
>would convince me that it's plugged >route does not indicate

>
>Aircraft experience is good to have but aircraft methodology is often
>driven by lawsuits and threats thereof, and is often too conservative for
>real-life application.
>


The strongest case I've heard/read is that chemical (unfilterable)
>contaminants such as acids and combustion by-products are the most
>significant cause of (petroleum) oil degradation, and that the additives
>just get "used up".  Not a filtration issue at all.  Better oils have
>better additives thus more capacity for contaminants.  I really can't say
>I've ever heard of (mineral) oil lasting forever, but I could certainly be
>wrong.


>Thanks for the discussion, it was fun, interesting, too time-consuming.
>Gotta get off this damn computer!!
>
>Tom
>
>(but I remain "unrepentant" over the "filter hobby" issue)



 Tom,
   Hey partner, I agree, I never meant to get into this oil and filter thing
this far. I`m a sucker for it though,as I said earlier, I`ve had an interest
in lubrication a long time, and through connections at work, try to stay
abreast of any new and documentable info. It`s an ongoing development that
will go on as long as we have two pieces of something rubbing against each
other to the point of wear, an along with it, the train of varied opinions.
    I`m sort of a doubting Thomas, and have to see proof and evidence before
I change my mind about most things. My real world experience has been
different than yours and that`s where we`re at.
   A couple of responses. I`ve never seen sludge in any of my filters or
aircraft filters either. A filter that restricts flow is not filled with
evident sludge or generally large particles (except metal), but what happens
is the filter becomes saturated with oil that has minute contaminates. I
won`t waste your`s or the List`s time on this part, but it has been
demonstrated and documented;and flow tests have borne this out.
   Aircraft maintenance practices have not been guided by lawsuits until
recently. Lives and  engine manufacturers in the race to say who`s engine
will last longer, have been the major stimuli for developing proven
maintenance guidelines. When aircraft engines started using pleated canister
filters instead of the mesh screens, all things else being the same, TBO`s
(time between overhauls) started becoming further apart. That`s just plain
(no pun intended) "real life proof" with no special studies or research.
Owners saw it for themselves.
   As for the color of your oil, most drained oil should still be dark brown
to honey if your engine is running properly. Most particulate contamination
is not that visible. We do regular oil analysis on most aircraft, and you
wouldn`t believe the stuff the oil picks up in an engine, not to mention
environmental contaminants. We use these analysis to determine what areas of
the engine are developing unusual wear trends and by the identification of
the contaminants, can tell where it is coming from. For oil to start turning
really dark or black, you`re usually picking up combustion by-products and
are developing other problems.    The exception is synthetic oil. It
entrains and suspends particulate contamination so well, it will sometimes
be very dark early on, if used in an engine that has been on mineral oil for
a period of time. Also, many that have switched to synthetic will notice a
marked rise in consumption and it has been advised that they return to
mineral oil. This is Mobil`s and Shell`s recommendation. They don`t want law
suits either.
      I had a `72` Bug (Baja) for 3 years, and if you`ve worked on them, you
know they have loose tolerances (because of air-cooling) and are not as
susceptible to bad oil as the later ones and water-cooled engines are. Mine
used so much oil, I didn`t need a filter, as I was always adding fresh oil.
The stories abound of guys not changing oil for 15 and 20 thousand miles,
just changing the filter very now and then, and breaking the 100 thousand
mark. Who knows?
    On the subject of multi-stage filters, they`ve never worked well. Guess
why. Champion tried a couple of designs, but the outer stages would begin to
restrict the flow to much as they started collecting contaminates, and got
to the point that flow was being seriously impeded. They decided to
recommend more frequent changed with more porous filters. By the way,
Continental  Engines and Textron Lycoming will allow you to go to 50 hours
between oil changes, instead of 25 if you use a paper pleated filters
instead of the more porous metal screens. With the new magnetic, cleanable
filters (with multi-stages and by-passes to each stage as one becomes
restricted) becoming available to aircraft, they are considering allowing
100 hours between oil changes, if the filter is cleaned at 50 hours. That`s
not very conservative is it ? Or is it.?
   As you stated before, you agree that filters can extend the life of an
engine, so why not change them more frequently? If by some chance (like when
Clinton turns celibate) you`re right, what have you lost? And if by chance
(like the sun is coming up tomorrow) that I`m right, you`ve gotten more
miles on your bike before you toss it and get another one. Never mind. Don`t
respond to that!
I`ve had enough too.
   You do your thing buddy and I`ll do mine, and believe me, if by
demonstrateable fact you`re right, I`ll be the first to admit it.
    It`s been fun, but tiring. Now I don`t have time for anymore posts, darn
you Tom.


Skip (who knows a hardhead when he sees one,
           like in the mirror)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:52:42 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (klr650) KLR v. KLX

I can dispel that rumor.. KLX top end is far from fragile. I've had it up to
sustained 110mph.. thats like 7k RPM and the thing just kept going. I've
toured NH, VT and NY state on it as well, racking up some serious miles and
havent had a single complaint. I picked it up after reading Steve Johnson's
review and I have exactly the same things to say about it. After all the top
end problems with my KLR600, glad I traded it in for the KLX.:)



At 06:56 PM 11/17/98 -0700, [e-mail] wrote:
>Someone mentioned that the KLX has/had a more advanced engine. Care to
elaborate?



    I dont claim to be an expert on the KLX, but from what I gather it
is a
more highly strung machine. I have also been lead to belive that the KLX
top end is more fragile than the KLRs.



- -Tom
dislikes high strung machinery
'96 KLR 650





>Tom Simpson wrote:
>
>> At 09:08 PM 11/16/98 -0500, Mark wrote:
>> >Hey Kids,
>> >
>> >I'm aware of the differences between a standard KLR and a Tengai.
However,
>> >aside from the beefier suspension and smaller gas tank, what else is
>> >different about the KLX-650?
>>
>>         Everything. The engines may seem identical at first glance, but
closer
>> inspection will reveal that, while very similar in overal layout and
>> design, they are completly different motors. Same with ther rest of the
>> bike. The turn signal lenses seem to be the same. Other than that, I cant
>> think of another part that would interchange.
>>
>> -Tom
>> '96 KLR 650
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:55:26 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (klr650) Drilling out a pilot jet

I've got a KLX thats crying for a #45 pilot jet and I cant find one anywhere
locally. Does anyone know what number drill bit I'd need to get a #45 if I
drilled out one of my many #40's? TIA :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:47:58 -0500
From: Tom Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) KLR v. KLX

At 06:52 AM 11/18/98 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>I can dispel that rumor.. KLX top end is far from fragile. I've had it up to
>sustained 110mph.. thats like 7k RPM and the thing just kept going. I've
>toured NH, VT and NY state on it as well, racking up some serious miles and
>havent had a single complaint. I picked it up after reading Steve Johnson's
>review and I have exactly the same things to say about it. After all the top
>end problems with my KLR600, glad I traded it in for the KLX.:)


    The KLR 600 is a dog, true (apologies to our Australian friend. I suppose
he  is either lucky or pulls very close maintenece on it.


    As for KLX fragility, I shopuld have elaborated.  From what I understand,
its not that they tear up very often but rather that when they do tear up,
the head is unsalvageable in most every case. KLR heads have enough meat in
them that they can be welded up and remachined, but KLX heads are so
thinned down that they are a unrebuildable and thus a total losss every time.


- -Tom
'96 KLR 650
with the thick, reweldable head.

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End of klr650-digest V1 #362
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