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klr650-digest        Saturday, August 29 1998        Volume 01 : Number 208




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Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (Francis Smith)
Subject: (klr650) Pet Peeves

Brian:

Canada isn't the only place to find weight pads
at intersections.  We have them here in sunny
California, and they're a bloody nuisance.

My 850 lb Goldwing and 525 lb Bandit 1200
will generally activate the pads, but not my
385 lb KLR.  Its unnerves me to sit there thru
several sequences of traffic lights waiting for
a 4 wheeler to come along behind me and trip
the pad.

Jim - Palmdale, CA.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:35:34 -0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (klr650) Traffic light sensors

To the best of my knowledge, these sensors are elecro-magnetic devices.  Not
too sure exactly how they work, but basically if a large mass of metal is
above the grid, it disturbs the flow of electricity through the grid, thus
triggering the light switch.  Please note, I, and probably all my friends,
always thought they were weight sensors, and would jump up and down on our
bikes, and commit other really strange looking acts to encourage the light
to change!

Anyway, if you're bike doesn't set it off, you're pretty much screwed unless
you write your local traffic authorities regarding the problem.

My solution is dependent on traffic density.  If little or no traffic, I
blow through the light.  Heavy traffic, I will continue down the legal path,
and make a turn elsewhere.  After all, you are on your bike now, right?

Cheers...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:11:45 -0600
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves


>>> those fancy little weight pads under intersections that control the
>flow of traffic. >>
>>>Sitting @ the lights,,, in Canada,,
>Brian '98KLR650/3678km>>
>
>Just a suggestion.  Some states allow, after a reasonable period of
>waiting and being safe, for vehicles to proceed through an intersection
>that is controlled by a metal sensing device if the signal is
>"inoperative."  Motorcycles aren't big enough to trip the mechanism, so
>doesn't that make them inoperative?  My practice is to wait through two
>cycles of lights, then go, if safe.  Okay, would I be convincing in
>court?
>-Ves  A12


Ahhhhhhh no.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:13:37 -0600
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves

Canada isn't the only place to find weight pads
at intersections.  We have them here in sunny
California, and they're a bloody nuisance.

My 850 lb Goldwing and 525 lb Bandit 1200
will generally activate the pads, but not my
385 lb KLR.  Its unnerves me to sit there thru
several sequences of traffic lights waiting for
a 4 wheeler to come along behind me and trip
the pad.

Jim - Palmdale, CA.


How about turning off your bike...standing on the seat and jumping on the pad...would
that get its attention. Course you could be like me and Ron and just eat a few more
cheeseburgers....Ahhh to be young again...

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:23:20 -0700
From: "Dean Harrison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves

I guy just wrote  a long tirade about this subject to Motorcycle Consumer
News basically stating he used your logic of defining it as 'inoperative'
and claiming he carried a copy of the state vehicles laws around with him
to back him up. Works for me. I wait a cycle and then proceed when safe.

By the way, as Jim mentioned about 'low metallic mass', it's not a weight
pad under the pavement. It's a loop of wire installed in a cut groove and
then secured with a sealant. The loop of wire has some value of capacitance
when installed and placing metal (your vehicle)  inside the loop changes
this capacitance registering a vehicle is present. There was a bunch of
talk on another list about placement of your vehicle to maximize the change
in capacitance. Can't really remember the details but I think it's best to
be closer to the wire outline than in the middle.

For what it's worth, Dean in Seattle

- ----------
> From: Jim Sprecker <[e-mail]>
> To: klr650 <[e-mail]>; BRBO <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves
> Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 3:28 AM
>
> I have encountered the same problem many times. Setting at a light
because
> the automated system won;t detect a lightweight, low metallic mass
> motorcycle. I'll just wait till the coast is clear then proceed. If it's
> high traffic area most of the time someone will show up behind me and
then
> the light will change. If I ever get stopped for it I'll just tell  the
> police what really happens........and maybee.....
> Jim.
> -----------------------------------------------
> >    [e-mail]     <
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BRBO <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 4:53 AM
> Subject: (klr650) Pet Peeves
>
>
> >    I live in Canada, and here we have those fancy little weight pads
> >under intersections that control the flow of traffic. Riding around
> >really urks me when I have to sit at a light watching countless people
> >going threw in the opposite direction and not even getting recognized by
> >the automated triggering device at the light. So do you wait for the
> >vehicle to show up behind you (which could be very long at some quiet
> >intersections) or do you slide threw (looking both ways of-coarse) with
> >no problems......
> >
> >Sitting @ the lights,,, in Canada,,
> >Brian '98KLR650/3678km
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:48:13 -0500
From: "Jim Sprecker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) No light change.......

The coil in the road might use some sort of inductance or hall effect to
detect metalic objects. Which I'm sure is adjustable. They might set them
less sensitive for things like water, or snow, debris which could affect the
sensor.  Don't know for sure.....
- -----------------------------------------------
>    [e-mail]     <
- -----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:36:23 -0500
From: "Jim Barthell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves

>By the way, as Jim mentioned about 'low metallic mass', it's not a weight
>pad under the pavement. It's a loop of wire installed in a cut groove and
>then secured with a sealant. The loop of wire has some value of capacitance
>when installed and placing metal (your vehicle)  inside the loop changes
>this capacitance registering a vehicle is present. There was a bunch of
>talk on another list about placement of your vehicle to maximize the change
>in capacitance. Can't really remember the details but I think it's best to
>be closer to the wire outline than in the middle.
>

Motorcyclist magazine reported the best placement was near a corner in the
loop, this was about 5 or 6 years ago and has worked for me in most
instances. Those that don't trip and are on my regular route get reported
and are almost always fixed in a timely manner. If they don't trip, call the
city I was amazed at how quickly mine were fixed.

YMMV,

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:25:52 -0700
From: "Robert Morgan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Traffic light sensors

The sensors here in California are electromagnetically controlled.  I have
an ongoing dialog with our local city engineer.  Carlsbad is growing
exponentially (I love the sound of those big in the morning), consequently
every thing here is torn up all the time: freeway on ramps, intersections,
beach seawall and boardwalk, medians....you name it.  Every time they screw
around with the signal at the end of my block the left turn lane I need to
use won't even kick with my International Harvester Scout, so it ain't
weight.  I call the city, they come out and tweak the signal and its fine
until I see the city trucks down there again.
    Sooooo if its a signal you frequently use call them up maybe they will
adjust it for you, after all its JOB justification for them.
    Remember "the nation that controls magnetism controls the
universe!".....Dick Tracy
     Morgan, gotta go I think I just saw the phone company truck
"They don't care, they don't have.....the're the Phone Company"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:34:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (jeff pritts)
Subject: Re: (klr650) Traffic light sensors

>To the best of my knowledge, these sensors are elecro-magnetic devices.  Not
>too sure exactly how they work, but basically if a large mass of metal is
>above the grid, it disturbs the flow of electricity through the grid, thus
triggering the light switch.


These devices are adjustable, but they are reluctant to make them too
sensitive cause they are sometimes triggered by traffic going in the other
direction, not waiting for the light to change.

There is a device available that attaches to the underside of the bike which
will help activate the sensor.  I think it's an electromagnet that you
operate with a push button or whatever.  Unfortunately it's pretty large and
heavy and is better suited to a Leadwing or other mammoth tourer/cruiser.
In addition to the weight, it will drastically reduce your ground clearance.
Too bad.


Jeff Pritts - Decatur, Il
[e-mail]
COG #2190  HSTA #7752
Black 92 Concours  "SR-71"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:32:16 -0700
From: "Robert Morgan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Traffic light sensors

ok so maybe I should proofread stuff I write before coffee.
(I love the sound of those big words in the morning)
Were the phone company, we don't care, we don't have to!
Morgan
undercaffienated

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:01:49 -0400
From: Stuart Heaslet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Pet Peeves

>How about turning off your bike...standing on the seat and jumping on the
pad...would
>that get its attention. Course you could be like me and Ron and just eat a
few more
>cheeseburgers....Ahhh to be young again...

This is totally unscientific (don't ask for data), but I seem to be able to
trip the light sensors more often by riding across the corners of the pad
and along a sensor line, sort of weaving as I go.  Dunno if that makes
sense, and I don't know if them cheeseburgers are finally paying off, or if
the drunken style will get me locked up ("My weaving is done with
PRECISION,  officer.")...  :-)

Stuart

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:05:41 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) Traffic lights and photo radar

jeff pritts wrote:

> >To the best of my knowledge, these sensors are elecro-magnetic devices.  Not
> >too sure exactly how they work, but basically if a large mass of metal is
> >above the grid, it disturbs the flow of electricity through the grid, thus
> triggering the light switch.

- -- etc

Around here, in Colorado, nobody stops for red lights or stop signs, so it's a
non-issue.

No, that is not really true, but it does bring up the story about the stoplight
and speed photo radars which places like Fort Collins and Boulder have
installed.  We have this little game that involves the people in the Graphic Arts
group at a yet-to-be-named aerospace company.  It seems as though the nice glossy
paper stock used in the color printer takes on the appearance of a license plate
when mounted on an appropriate piece of sheet metal. So.......

You make a license place number, with the correct color and type font, etc.,  for
either a car or bike, preferably of  someone you don't much care for (like the
bailiff at the local courthouse, for example, who rides a yet-to-be-named brand
of bike, or the local assemblywoman promoting anti-bike legislation).  You
install said plate temporarily, at great risk, and.......

You proceed cautiously to the nearest photo-radar intersection, which are not
hard to determine...

...and at a good red-light opportunity,  with that nasty crimson eye staring down
at you, just cruise through. And then if you have a bad attitude, you go to the
next stoplight (or speed) photo radar and do it again.   And again, until you get
it right. If you are smart, you will wear shades but not a helmet or jacket that
has your name on it.

I learned this from the kids in the south of England, who were doing it to the
fixed photo-speed radars. In Oz, as our dag-rattling correspondents may point
out, some citizens have been taking out several of the rural traffic monitoring
devices, photo radars and some others, with shotguns.

It is a pattern that should be emulated thoughout the former Free World.

Dr Robert
(Where is Tim McVeigh, now that we need him?)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:43:57 -0600
From: "Kurt Simpson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Fw: BOUNCE [e-mail]:    Non-member submission from [[e-mail]]

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 10:55 AM
Subject: BOUNCE [e-mail]: Non-member submission from
[[e-mail]]


>>From [e-mail] Sat Aug 29 10:55:05 1998
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>Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:04:18
>To: [e-mail]
>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: (klr650) Welding gas tanks
>In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>At 07:18 PM 8/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>O.K., I've got a chemically naive question. If I take a gas tank that I
>>intend to weld and thoroughly rinse it out with water and/or soap, I still
>>have to be concerned with residual fumes causes ignition? I don't get it.
>It's a gas. I weld them all the time. Have never had one go off. I let them
>air dry upside down and open a couple days, or if I'm in a hurry, flush
>with water. I've seen guys open the cap on an empty but still fumey tank,
>wave the flame across the opening. Usually there's a muted 'whoosh' and
>thats the end of story, explosion-wise. Then they just go on and weld. The
>US Armed Forces make you steam the tank for TWELVE HOURS and if you wait an
>hour or two, you have to steam it again. What's the point in all that? As
>Kev Cameron used to say, 'If gasoline was really all that explosive, most
>of us would have blown ourselves up long ago'.
>
>That baking soda and vinegar trick will leaver crud inside; you'll have to
>wash it with water anyway. CO2 from an extinguisher is OK but it diffuses.
>If you fill the tank with water, it won't get hot enough to weld. Just do
>it the easy way. Get yourself a torch-man who has lots of hair and BO;
>he'll know how. Or send them to me. I know how too.
>
>Hoyt
>
>
>Belfab CNC: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html
>Best MC Repair-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html
>Camping/Caving-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
>  Last words => "Hey guys, watch tHis!" <= of a redneck
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:59:04 -0700
From: Tom Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) No light change.......

At 10:48 AM 8/29/98 -0500, Jim Sprecker wrote:
>The coil in the road might use some sort of inductance or hall effect to
>detect metalic objects. Which I'm sure is adjustable. They might set them
>less sensitive for things like water, or snow, debris which could affect the
>sensor.  Don't know for sure.....



    Which leads to the question, is there anything we can do to increase
our bikes "presence"  to this system. I was wondering if a realy strong
rare-earth magnet inside the kickstand might help.


- -Tom
'96 KLR 650

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End of klr650-digest V1 #208
****************************