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klr650-digest          Saturday, May 23 1998          Volume 01 : Number 085




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rex Hefferan <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Digital Cameras (also no KLR content)

Gino, If you haven't checked ZDNET for reviews here's the URL:
http://www8.zdnet.com/products/camerauser/index.html
Also check the Computer Shopper NetBuyer for comparison shopping:
http://www.zdnet.com/netbuyer
Good luck and let us know which one you choose.
Rex ('73 Nikon F)


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:29:32 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Riding Jackets

the first choice I made was between a
>gortex type jacket with padding versus leather. I like leather, but I
>feel the gortex jacket offers as good a protection and fits the style of
>the KLR better.

I personally think that the new road jackets made from the ballistic nylon
are superior to leather, as they can abraid somewhat more than the leather,
and still look decent.  I recently purchased a very serious jacket, the
Kiliminjaro from First Gear.  The jacket is ballistic, 3/4 length with a
waist strap.  Totally waterproof with a zip out fleece liner.  Extremely
large cargo pockets and many vents.  There is closed cell foam padding and
armor on the shoulders, elbows and down the back.  I have been wearing the
jacket on my daily 50+ mile commute here in the Northwest in the morning
rain, and am very happy with it.

Jeff
'89 KLR--20,000 and still thumping

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:33:26 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

The problem I've had with mail order tires is that either the local shops
won't mount them, or they will charge twice as much to mount and balance,
and won't back their work like they would if I purchased the tire from them.
I have tried mounting my own in the past, and after the bloody fingers, bent
tire irons, and pinched tubes, I'd rather have a shop do it.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:23:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Yusseri Yusoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) How to find out if A1, A2, etc.?

Hullo again,

This might sound a bit silly, but how do you find out if the KLR's an A1,
A2, etc. When I bought the bike, I didn't get the owner's manual or log.
The guy who sold it to me said that it was an '88 model. The chassis no.
is 002127 (I think). Was he right or did I get stiffed? It's a bit late to
ask this question since I've already had the bike for a year but at least
it'll stop me wondering.

btw, due to the rather blase' attitude with regards to distance by you
listers, I'll be riding my KLR to Berlin. Pushing off tomorrow morning.
Woo-hoo!

Yus.

- --
Yusseri Yusoff / [e-mail]
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/showstaff?Yusoff
Centre for Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
University of Surrey
Guildford GU2 5XH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:10:13 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Crunchy Shifting

Carlos Yonan Gonzalez wrote:

[...]
> I checked the front sprocket and the shaft it's connected to and found
> that the sprocket moves on the shaft slightly (which I think is normal)

Yeah, they float a bit.

> and that the shaft itself moves in and out of the engine slightly (about
> 2-3mm of total movement).  My question is if this movement is normal, and
> if it could be related to the poor shifting.  Has anyone else had this
> problem.

Hmmm, this sounds a bit much. The output shaft is supported by a large
ball roller bearing on the sprocket side and a needle roller on the
clutch side.
That shaft has two gears on it controlled by the shift forks.
AFAICT, the ball rollers control the end float, but I can't find any
spec in the manual for the end float.

Mister_T
- --
   \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\
   |   RC17   KLR600    Roces BCN    FreeBSD 2.2.5-R    NT4W (ugh)   |
   |           tedp[at]replicant[dot]apana[dot]org[dot]au            |
  \|_________________________________________________________________|

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:04:15 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) soft bags and heat

Bill Wright wrote:

[...]
> I'm running my Ortlieb dry bags without side racks with no melting problems
> but I am ruining the side panels.  When I get the side racks I will have to
> replace them.

I had similar results with Gearsack saddle bags on a wet 12 hour
interstate cruise.
The dirt and vibration scuffed the plastic side panels most
unpleasantly.
The scuffing was all on the area where the race numbers would go.
I had removed the white stickers from there about a week after I bought
the bike, so the scuffing was straight onto the plastic.
I fixed the cosmetics by finding some "Contact" (thin vinyl sheet,
peel off backing to reveal sticky side) in a red that was close to
the colour of my side panels, and cutting out a suitable patch to
cover the scuffed areas.
(I trimmed up some newspaper first to make patterns that I can use
to repeatably mark out more patches)
It worked a treat, it's hard to see the fix unless it is pointed out.

Only after that did I get the idea to cut an old towel to shape to
place between the saddlebags and the bike :-/

Mister_T
- --
   \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\
   |   RC17   KLR600    Roces BCN    FreeBSD 2.2.5-R    NT4W (ugh)   |
   |           tedp[at]replicant[dot]apana[dot]org[dot]au            |
  \|_________________________________________________________________|

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:14:19 -0700
From: "Robert Morgan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: Dual Star

     I talked to Mike at Dual Star late yesterday about my centerstand.  He
said half of the order that has been delayed is in the mail now and the
other half is at the powder coaters and should ship in a week.  He again
apologized for the delay.  Small run custom manufacturing has many pitfalls.
I for one feel fortunate he has the patients and tenacity to provide quality
products to our seemingly small market niche.  Watch for the UPS truck and
have a great weekend.
peace Morgan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:27 -0700
From: "Robert Morgan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: (klr650) Re: jetset

- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Morgan <[e-mail]>
To: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: jetset


>Hi gang
>     I have a little more info for you all regarding exhaust gas testing
and
>mixture adjustment.  In years past it was fairley easey to determine
mixture
>by the residue at the tailpipe.  Since the demise of lead additives in
>comercially availible fuel (all except av-gas) it has become more difficult
>to jet engines this way.  Checking plug deposits is still fairley reliable
>though.  Nice tan color is what your looking for.  We have a new load of
>state mandated crap in our gas in Ca. (methyl-tertiary butyl ether).  They
>call it oxyginated fuel.  It causes soft carbon deposits to form on valve
>seats of some fuel injected cars not warmed up fully before shut down.
This
>in turn creates a no-start...flooding condition on restart.  Havent noticed
>a problem with the bike though.  An interesting side effect of this stuff
is
>it promotes deterioration of rubber fuel lines in older vehicles.
>     I digress.  I checked another bike on the exhaust analyser yesterday
in
>my quest for data (  hint  hint ).  My buddy has a new Yamaha YZF r1 just
>coming off break in at 1k.  Heres what it looked like.
>rpm     co%     hc ppm
>idle     3.96   1060
>2500   4.69   260
>5000   3.30   13
>8000   2.30   48
>     Pretty rich,   very dirty at idle,  cleans up at top end.   Are you
>getting the picture of its cam profile?  He says it makes most of its
torque
>at 5000rpm and most of its
>hp at  8000 rpm.
>      more later, peace Morgan.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:48:23 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Beasley)
Subject: Re: (klr650) S.S. brake lines

At 06:58 PM 5/21/98 -0700, [e-mail] wrote:
>I followed the listers advice and changed pads front and rear on my
>KLR650 plus I went to a stainless braided line on the front.  This was a
>tremendous improvement.  I have been advised not to change the rear, the
>danger being rear lock-up in the dirt.  I know how to feather the brakes
>and now have to apply way too much pressure.  I don't think that will be
>a problem.  Anybody want to respond?  -Ves
>

Ves,
I would go with the rear braided line without hesitation.  I think the
improved feel would allow you to modulate the rear better on the dirt and
the road.  BTW, I just dumped my '650 yesterday as the result of misreaction
to locking up the rear.  My KLR pitches like crazy on the brakes.
Cheers!
Chris
Christopher J. Beasley
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:41 EDT
From: Cloudhid <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  (klr650) How to find out if A1, A2, etc.?

In a message dated 5/22/98 3:25:43 AM, [e-mail]
wrote: snip

>how do you find out if the KLR's an A1, A2, etc.......I didn't get the
>owner's manual or log....said that it was an '88 model. The chassis no.
>is 002127 (I think).

 Generally it's by model year, A1='87, A12='98.
 Specifically it's by frame #. Pick up a copy of the
 Supplemental Service Manual (kawa#99924-1080-55),
 it's listed on the back cover. If your frame # is correct,
 it looks like you have an A1 ('87).
 (Could've bought new in '88 though).

     Ron  ( A10.....#040180 )


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:26:01 -0500
From: Jim Barthell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

Jeffrey L. Walker wrote:

> The problem I've had with mail order tires is that either the local shops
> won't mount them, or they will charge twice as much to mount and balance,

Find a new shop, that's unacceptable behavior.

- --
Jim Barthell - TX

'97 'C-O-O-O-W'...asaki KiLleR 650
FSSNOC #2421

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:30:20 -0500
From: Jim Barthell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Aerostitch

[e-mail] wrote:

> Howdy All,
>
> I stopped by Aerostitch this afternoon.  More to the point I found

Hey guys! FWIW Aerostich is _not_ a misspelling. Aerostitch is.

- --
Jim Barthell - TX

'97 'C-O-O-O-W'...asaki KiLleR 650
FSSNOC #2421

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:49:40 -0400
From: "Michael Magnatta" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

Guys:

I'm the first guy that'll try and save a buck via mail-order, but I
gotta tell ya', the local shop that charges more when you bring in your
own parts is just protecting their interests. During college I used to
work for a friend in his auto repair shop, and soon realized that with
the enormous amount of overhead, he couldn't afford not to mark up the
price of a part along with the labor charge. Dealerships and small
repair shops, and places like Arrowhead cannot compete volume-wise with
big boys. Again, I'm throwing Fred Hink, for example, as much business
as I can, because if there's a problem, I'll know I can communicate with
him and not some customer rep at one of the larger mail-order firms.
Maybe I'll pay a buck or to more, but believe me, I'm going through a
major nightmare with two very large mail-order firms regarding some
parts I bought for my Cherokee, and it's become a living hell!!!

To put things into perspective, imagine going into a restaurant or diner
with your own unprepared food, and expecting the chef to cook it up for
ya'! My philosophy is - with probably one or two exceptions - is that if
I can't install it myself, I'll throw the local guy the business and
have it done right, with both the part AND the labor warranteed. And
believe me, it's only a matter of time before we all need the skills and
specialized equipment of the guy down the road.

Mike Magnatta

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Barthell <[e-mail]>
To: Jeffrey L. Walker <[e-mail]>
Cc: Rick Clarke <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
<[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires


Jeffrey L. Walker wrote:

> The problem I've had with mail order tires is that either the local
shops
> won't mount them, or they will charge twice as much to mount and
balance,

Find a new shop, that's unacceptable behavior.

- --
Jim Barthell - TX

'97 'C-O-O-O-W'...asaki KiLleR 650
FSSNOC #2421

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:59:01 -0600
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Mail Order vs Local Shop NKLR

> To put things into perspective, imagine going into a restaurant or diner
> with your own unprepared food, and expecting the chef to cook it up for
> ya'! My philosophy is - with probably one or two exceptions - is that if
> I can't install it myself, I'll throw the local guy the business and
> have it done right, with both the part AND the labor warranteed. And
> believe me, it's only a matter of time before we all need the skills and
> specialized equipment of the guy down the road.
>
> Mike Magnatta

This is kind of where I've arrived. If I expect to need any
kind of support, labor, advice, I buy it from the person who
I will ask and expect that from. If I don't think I will
need support I go whichever way my wallet leads me. There
are exceptions, at the Moab rally I tried buying things that
I could use from both Dual Star and Fred (already had
everything that Driveline sells) to show my support for
their contributions and expertise...


- --
Kurt Simpson KLR650 A12 OB
             HawkGT '89 FS
             XS-650 '77 FS
         XS-650 '79 FS
             XS-650 '80 FS

Ask me how to subscribe to the KLR
Dual Sport Newsletter.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:27:17 -0400
From: Blair Young <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas tank crud

Todd,
Two different people have given me suggestions in regards to cleaning
out "crud" in gas tanks. (In my case, it's rust...found a super clean
1970 Honda SL175 Dual Sport that I want to fix up)  Both people gave the
same suggestion...remove the tank, find some small, clean pellet-sized
gravel, put it in the tank, shake and remove.  Repeat the process until
all the "crud" is gone.  Good Luck.
Blair

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:33:11 -0600
From: "Vikram Banerjee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

- ----------
> From: Jim Barthell <[e-mail]>
> To: Jeffrey L. Walker <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Rick Clarke <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires
> Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 1:26 PM
>
> Jeffrey L. Walker wrote:
>
> > The problem I've had with mail order tires is that either the local
shops
> > won't mount them, or they will charge twice as much to mount and
balance,
>
> Find a new shop, that's unacceptable behavior.

I find its not so much that the stores will charge you more to install your
mail order tires.  The local ones around here will only charge you the
standard shop rate.  The problem is nobody pays standard prices for store
bought merchandise.  I can't remember the last time I bought something
locally and paid full retail.  A 20% discount for good customers seems
pretty standard and free installation as well.  So when I walk in to the
shop with my mail order tires they'll just charge me the standard $40 to
install 'em, but if I had bought the tires locally the install would be
free or the discount higher.

For what its worth I have shopped locally and through mail order to get
prices for some Michelin T66 and so far my local stores beat mail order no
problem.

Cheers,

Vik

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:42:38 -0500
From: Michael Redwine <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

Maybe I'll pay a buck or to more, but believe me, I'm going through a
major nightmare with two very large mail-order firms regarding some
parts I bought for my Cherokee, and it's become a living hell!!!



Yes,,, but its really sorry that some shops will charge hugely inflated
prices knowing you are just passing thru and they will most likely never
see you again. I've had it happen !!


Mikey Redwine
90 KLR- six five Oh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:07:48 -0500
From: Jim Barthell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

Vikram Banerjee wrote:

> I find its not so much that the stores will charge you more to install your
> mail order tires.  The local ones around here will only charge you the
> standard shop rate.

This is my experience also.

>  The problem is nobody pays standard prices for store
> bought merchandise.

Wrong. I get discounts from time to time but they are very rare usually only
10%. Maybe I don't spend enough at dealers... Lets see A goldwing, 2 KLRs, a
KTM for my son  and a new Virago for my wife, all pretty much at retail in less
than 3 years. Thousands in service, parts, leather gear, electric gear.... I
get sick just thinking about it. Sure I get a hearty "Hey!" when I walk in the
door... but I still get charged $3 for 2 lousy nuts that vibrated off my bike.
Gimme a break. It is not the money, I could care less about that, but the
customer service sucks. I do buy from dealers and I do pay full pop. But I
support the dealers that support their customers.

>  I can't remember the last time I bought something
> locally and paid full retail.  A 20% discount for good customers seems
> pretty standard and free installation as well.

In what universe??? :-) I pay for installation also... once again full pop. For
example they were going to charge me a $76 minimum to install a kickstarter on
my '97 KLR... Anybody wanna tell me what's wrong with this picture???

>  So when I walk in to the
> shop with my mail order tires they'll just charge me the standard $40 to
> install 'em, but if I had bought the tires locally the install would be
> free or the discount higher.

This sounds right I pay $20 per tire for mounting and balancing. Also let's put
this in perspective. In August I bought a set of Metzler tires. The dealer said
I got them at 10% over cost or a 40% discount. So I paid the $186 per tire
+balancing and installation. In February I bought a replacement from Dennis
Kirk for $112 and paid the same $20 for mounting and balancing. So if the
dealer was being truthful I suppose he should buy his stock from Dennis Kirk.

> For what its worth I have shopped locally and through mail order to get
> prices for some Michelin T66 and so far my local stores beat mail order no
> problem.

Where is this place I'll shop there too.

- --
Jim Barthell - TX

'97 'C-O-O-O-W'...asaki KiLleR 650
FSSNOC #2421

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:08:53 -0500
From: Ken Belfatto <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) What is the best oil & weight

Hi all, Just put my 1st 500mi on my new '98
The dealer had to back order my owners manual (because they lost the =
original),=20
I was thinking about changing the oil now, and was wondering what is =
recommended. Also does anyone know of other adjustments that are needed =
after the 1st 500 miles?
Thanks in advance..
CAD/CAM Kenny.
'98KLR650

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:20:24 -0600
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) What is the best oil & weight

At 09:08 PM 5/22/1998 -0500, Ken Belfatto wrote:
>Hi all, Just put my 1st 500mi on my new '98
>The dealer had to back order my owners manual (because they lost the
original),
>I was thinking about changing the oil now, and was wondering what is
recommended. Also does anyone know of other adjustments that are needed
after the 1st 500 miles?
>Thanks in advance..
>CAD/CAM Kenny.
>'98KLR650

500 mile service is a significant point in the life of the bike and your
warranty. The entire service recommendations are outlined in your owner's
manual. The biggee's are: oil (20w-50w is a good weight), filter, valve
adjustment, and balancer chain adjustment. The rest are mostly fluid level,
cable, and tightness checks on the entire bike.

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:45:36 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Gas tank crud

>Todd,
>Two different people have given me suggestions in regards to cleaning
>out "crud" in gas tanks. (In my case, it's rust...found a super clean
>1970 Honda SL175 Dual Sport that I want to fix up)  Both people gave the
>same suggestion...remove the tank, find some small, clean pellet-sized
>gravel, put it in the tank, shake and remove.  Repeat the process until
>all the "crud" is gone.  Good Luck.
>Blair


Or, if you intend to repaint the tank, you'll get more professional results
if you glass bead blast it lightly.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:41:40 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) New to list, here's all about me--if anyone cares NKLR-long

I've just purchased my first moto in 8 years, an '89 650.  My last bikes
were a '79 RM 125, a '80 XL 500S, and an '84 XL 600, in that order.  in 1990
I went in the Army and sold my bike.  My wife didn't care for it much
either.  Anyway, I had a great time in the Army.

My "career" spanned the recon scouts in the 101st Airborne, (including Long
Range Surveillance Detachment), the Rangers, (Regimental Recon, 3rd and 2nd
Batts.), and lastly 5th SFG. (De Oppreso Liber).

Going through the archives of this list I found several posts regarding
KLR's in the military.  Yep, yep yep.  Jumped em, rode em, broke em.  I once
rode one across the desert in the gulf.  I tell you, nothing is scarier than
riding a bike in the open desert at night with night vision goggles.  The
only thing hairier that I can think of is riding one backwards off the back
ramp of a moving aircraft.  Anyway, I felt like handing my paycheck back
every month because of all the fun I was having, jumping out of aircraft and
riding motorcycles.  Somalia ended all the fun and games for me though....

After that I sort of became cynical.....My wife and I were expecting and I
decided that I didn't want to raise my kid as an "Army brat".  I spent far
too much time away....

So now I'm back in school attending the University of Washington.  I am a
senior in Cellular and Molecular Biology, with minors in Chemistry and
Ecology.  I am what you'd call "green", but I disagree with the Sierra Club
and Greenpeace strongly.  So anyway, I am very opinionated about land-use
issues, wildlife management, and nuclear energy (strongly pro).

I have seen posts regarding wiring bikes for GPS and using hand helds.
Here's my two cents:  Learn how to read a map and navigate with just a map
and compass first.  Learn orienteering.  I have seen too many missions get
f****d up when the leaders relied on GPS fixes and really had no idea where
they were.  Remember that a good (civilian model) GPS fix is really only
accurate to +/- 250 meters.  This can be quite a lot in the deep dark thick
of it.

Remember that the bike can get you really lost in a hurry, so plan route in
advance, and if unsure, don't be afraid to stop and get a fix, do a map
check.

Lastly, I have been (highly) trained in survival, and I think that anyone
who goes in the woods should be prepared for the worst.  I never travel
without a good map, compass, knife (Spyderco Endura is superior), lighter,
50' of parachute cord (550 cord), a canteen and purification tablets.  These
are the basic items I would need to survive in the woods for any length of
time, as a bare minimum.  That doesn't include basic clothing and gear such
as that, but that's not my point.  My real point is that every year here
people get lost and die of exposure in the mountains, and if they had only
taken a little precaution and had a some training then they would have come
out ok.  Those people that die had no business being there in the first
place.

Of course there is a giant list of provisions that you could include and
consider necessary, (first aid kits, signal flares, cell phones, a complete
repair kit, a gas refinery to refill the tank, on and on). But I'm saying
that these basic items should be kept on you, in your pockets, always.  You
might have crashed your bike and become separated from it, but you'll still
have the basic means to survive.

Did I mention that I do volunteer SAR?

Jeff, --wondering how I'm going to budget all of these upgrades to my stock
bike and keep my water-skiing budget.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:43:20 -0700
From: "Vikram Banerjee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires

- ----------
> From: Jim Barthell <[e-mail]>
> To: Vikram Banerjee <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Jeffrey L. Walker <[e-mail]>; Rick Clarke
<[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (klr650) New Dunlop Tires
> Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 5:07 PM
>
> Vikram Banerjee wrote:
>
> Wrong. I get discounts from time to time but they are very rare usually
only
> 10%. Maybe I don't spend enough at dealers... Lets see A goldwing, 2
KLRs, a
> KTM for my son  and a new Virago for my wife, all pretty much at retail
in less
> than 3 years. Thousands in service, parts, leather gear, electric
gear.... I
> get sick just thinking about it. Sure I get a hearty "Hey!" when I walk
in the
> door... but I still get charged $3 for 2 lousy nuts that vibrated off my
bike.
> Gimme a break. It is not the money, I could care less about that, but the
> customer service sucks. I do buy from dealers and I do pay full pop. But
I
> support the dealers that support their customers.
>

Jim all I can tell you is my experience.  I get a 15-20% discount without
arguing from all the major bike stores in Calgary.  The best discount is at
a store I haven't ever bought a bike at.  I just let 'em know I won't pay
full retail and I'll go elsewhere or mail order if necessary.  Its not a
big deal and they give me my discount.  At the stores I buy a fair bit of
stuff from I don't even have to ask for a discount.

> >  I can't remember the last time I bought something
> > locally and paid full retail.  A 20% discount for good customers seems
> > pretty standard and free installation as well.
>
> In what universe??? :-) I pay for installation also... once again full
pop. For
> example they were going to charge me a $76 minimum to install a
kickstarter on
> my '97 KLR... Anybody wanna tell me what's wrong with this picture???

In my universe!..=-)...well I am assuming you can go to more than one store
so shop around.  You have to make it worth their while so if you want a
free or discount install buy a bunch of stuff you needed or will need in
the near future.  So if I wanted a free install of a kick starter I might
suggest I'd pick up a new helmet or a set of tires or leathers (whatever I
need) if I get the kickstarter installed free or at minimum cost.
Ultimately it comes down to the economic situation.  If they don't need
your business than you don't have much to bargin with.  If competition is
tough in your area you might get a great deal.  I can only comment on my
experiences.  Keep in mind I get the same treatment shopping for mtn bike
parts or computer stuff.

> >  So when I walk in to the
> > shop with my mail order tires they'll just charge me the standard $40
to
> > install 'em, but if I had bought the tires locally the install would be
> > free or the discount higher.
>
> This sounds right I pay $20 per tire for mounting and balancing. Also
let's put
> this in perspective. In August I bought a set of Metzler tires. The
dealer said
> I got them at 10% over cost or a 40% discount. So I paid the $186 per
tire
> +balancing and installation. In February I bought a replacement from
Dennis
> Kirk for $112 and paid the same $20 for mounting and balancing. So if the
> dealer was being truthful I suppose he should buy his stock from Dennis
Kirk.
>
> > For what its worth I have shopped locally and through mail order to get
> > prices for some Michelin T66 and so far my local stores beat mail order
no
> > problem.
>
> Where is this place I'll shop there too.

Its called Calgary!  I got the same price within $10 from two different
stores.  What can I say?  When I was down in LA they had a better selection
of moto stuff, but nothing was cheaper than I can get locally.  If anyone
wants to make the trip to Calgary you are well come to camp out at my place
and I'll take you on a bargin hunting spree!..=-)...Just keep in mind KLR
specific stuff is rare, but generic moto stuff is a plenty!

> --
> Jim Barthell - TX
>
> '97 'C-O-O-O-W'...asaki KiLleR 650
> FSSNOC #2421
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:12:47 -0700
From: "Vikram Banerjee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New to list, here's all about me--if anyone cares NKLR-long

> I have seen posts regarding wiring bikes for GPS and using hand helds.
> Here's my two cents:  Learn how to read a map and navigate with just a
map
> and compass first.  Learn orienteering.  I have seen too many missions
get
> f****d up when the leaders relied on GPS fixes and really had no idea
where
> they were.  Remember that a good (civilian model) GPS fix is really only
> accurate to +/- 250 meters.  This can be quite a lot in the deep dark
thick
> of it.

Jeff,

I agree with your suggestion.  And using a map and a GPS together will
allow you to navigate manually with a compass when your GPS runs out of
power or gets damaged.  Basic orienteering is an important skill, but isn't
hard to learn when you aren't in an emergency stituation.  As far as the
accuracy of a C/A code reciever (a civilian model) goes the accuracy is
normally under 100m with SA (selective availability - intentional accuracy
degradation) on and up to 150m under high SA.  Clinton signed a policy
statement in '97 stating that SA would be turned to zero by 2005.  With no
SA effect a C/A code receiver will be good to about 25m which is what a P
code (miltary) recevier can currently achive.

Although 150m is a lot of ground under operational conditions.  For
dualsport riding I have found this is more than adequate to navigate with.
Once we can use GPS without an SA effects 25m accuracy level will be superb
for dualsport riding.  After all when you are not calling in fire missions
high accuracy isn't as serious an issue.

Cheers,

Vik

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 05:31:27 EDT
From: Cloudhid <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Maintaining Positional Awareness

In a message dated 5/23/98 12:17:56 AM, [e-mail]
wrote: snip
>And using a map and a GPS together will allow you to navigate
>manually with a compass when your GPS runs out of power or
>gets damaged.  Basic orienteering is an important skill, but isn't
>hard to learn when you aren't in an emergency stituation.

 Bravo Jeff and Vik. I've witnessed this first hand. GPS has made
 the task of positional awareness much easier....as a back up only.
 If you rely on GPS as your sole lifeline to civilization, you're
 taking a chance on the happenstance that Vik mentioned, AND
 such things as satellite disruption. (Anyone remember a little
 problem with satellites and pagers recently?) Or even military
 exercises that have intentionally interrupted signals. If you're
 not familiar with detailed reading of maps.........or think magnetic
 deviation is something your perverted neighbors are into.......do
 yourself and your loved ones a favor, and at least read a good
 book on survival, general navigation and correct compass use.

   Ron  ( who uses GPS as a nav. aid.......not a crutch )

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:21:45 -0700
From: "TGKessel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Re: klr650-digest V1 #84

A few new KLR owner notes and questions:
The smog hardware came off nicely and removed a lot of clutter and weight
(thanks for the suggestions Kurt Simpson).  Also, my IMS tank arrived and
is just about an exact match (without the graphics and weight).

Questions:
Has anyone located a fork brace designed for (or suitable for) the KLR?
Also, has anyone mounted a low dual sport fender on the KLR?

Tim Kessel (Arizona)
'95 KLR
'92 GSPD

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:34:29 -0400
From: Bill Haycock <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Budget Swing Arm Stand

To the LIST:

I just placed a short article on the KLR Page on how to make a swing arm
stand to help in chain oiling and wheel removal.

Go to the KLR Page and "click" on "Technical Tips" page.

Bill Haycock

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:40:19 -0600
From: "Joshua Sammons" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) IMS Mirror Pivots

I just got a set of the IMS dual sport mirror pivots and I'm impressed.
They are high quality and have no effect on the stability of the mirror
while riding.  The pivots do increase the height of the mirror by about an
inch and a half.  After losing a couple of mirrors, I decided the extra
money for the pivot really out weighs being out money and time going to
replace a mirror (especially if you live a 150 miles away from the nearest
Kawasaki dealer).
Josh '92KLR650

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 05:08:09 +1000
From: Ted Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) What is the best oil & weight

Kurt Simpson wrote:

[what to change at 500mi question deleted]
> manual. The biggee's are: oil (20w-50w is a good weight), filter, valve
> adjustment, and balancer chain adjustment. The rest are mostly fluid level,
> cable, and tightness checks on the entire bike.

I'd add a fork oil change to the list.
New bikes tend to have pretty low spec oil in the forks from the
factory, unless they are on some top-shelf bike.
Rather like the whole rear shock, really.
Top quality fork oil doesn't cost a huge amount to fit, and you might as
well get its benefits now.
Forks have a bit of sliding area to run in, too.

Mister_T
- --
   \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\
   |   RC17   KLR600    Roces BCN    FreeBSD 2.2.5-R    NT4W (ugh)   |
   |           tedp[at]replicant[dot]apana[dot]org[dot]au            |
  \|_________________________________________________________________|

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:21:55 -0400
From: "Jacynthe et Robert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Laconia, NH

I would like to know if there is anybody who go to Laconia, NH in June , =
if
there is someone please write me

Robert Bujold
B-Comeau, Qu=E9bec
Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:42:04 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Budget Swing Arm Stand

Such a great idea!  I had the materials lying around my garage, so after I
read it I built one in less than 10 minutes.  Thanks!

Jeff

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Haycock <[e-mail]>
To: KLR LIST <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 9:54 AM
Subject: (klr650) Budget Swing Arm Stand


>To the LIST:
>
>I just placed a short article on the KLR Page on how to make a swing arm
>stand to help in chain oiling and wheel removal.
>
>Go to the KLR Page and "click" on "Technical Tips" page.
>
>Bill Haycock
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:43:49 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) New to list, here's all about me--if anyone cares NKLR-long

Don't you believe it.  With the SA turned off, there is too much security at
risk.  Clinton will be long gone by 2005, and so will his policies.  His
administration has dicked with the military too much, and I really don't
think that the NSA will comply.  I know that the makers SAY that they can
get the 100 meter fix, but that is at sea level, and how many people ride on
the ocean.
Throw in elevational deviation and you can double your error in the fix.
With a good
Magellan and 6 satellites I still have only managed to get within 220
meters.  With a
military Rockwell hand held, (we called them My First GPS--dumb grunts can't
handle
little buttons) and an the encryption key, I have gotten +/- 5 meter
accuracy.  Ironically,
combining USGPS with Russian, both non encrypted, I have gotten to +/- 8
meters...
OOPS! never mind I said that, it never happened.....

Seriously, I have been in many situations where I couldn't get more than 2
birds locked in, and you need a minimum of 3 to get a fix.  It all depends
upon the situation.  100 meters can be the difference between the fire road
that goes up the mountain, and the fire road that got washed out and ends
abruptly in a cliff.  The only sure fire method is dead reckoning with a map
and compass, and that's why its so important for everybody to know.  And
yes,
it is SO important to understand the GM (grid to magnetic) angle for your
region.
Here in the northwest, the GM angle is 20 to 21 degrees.  Quite a lot.  In
places like
Tennessee, there is no GM angle (usually, depending on the map--check).
Well,
I'm done preaching now.

Jeff


>> I have seen posts regarding wiring bikes for GPS and using hand helds.
>> Here's my two cents:  Learn how to read a map and navigate with just a
>map
>> and compass first.  Learn orienteering.  I have seen too many missions
>get
>> f****d up when the leaders relied on GPS fixes and really had no idea
>where
>> they were.  Remember that a good (civilian model) GPS fix is really only
>> accurate to +/- 250 meters.  This can be quite a lot in the deep dark
>thick
>> of it.
>
>Jeff,
>
>I agree with your suggestion.  And using a map and a GPS together will
>allow you to navigate manually with a compass when your GPS runs out of
>power or gets damaged.  Basic orienteering is an important skill, but isn't
>hard to learn when you aren't in an emergency stituation.  As far as the
>accuracy of a C/A code reciever (a civilian model) goes the accuracy is
>normally under 100m with SA (selective availability - intentional accuracy
>degradation) on and up to 150m under high SA.  Clinton signed a policy
>statement in '97 stating that SA would be turned to zero by 2005.  With no
>SA effect a C/A code receiver will be good to about 25m which is what a P
>code (miltary) recevier can currently achive.
>
>Although 150m is a lot of ground under operational conditions.  For
>dualsport riding I have found this is more than adequate to navigate with.
>Once we can use GPS without an SA effects 25m accuracy level will be superb
>for dualsport riding.  After all when you are not calling in fire missions
>high accuracy isn't as serious an issue.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Vik
>

------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V1 #85
***************************