> Boy talk about bad timing! I had a center stand on order from Ride West
> for five months and finally came to the conclusion that I would never
> receive any thing from Ride West. Nine weeks ago I cancelled my order
> with Ride West and ordered a centerstand from Dual Star. Mike told me to
> expect delivery the from middle to the end of April, I still have not
> received it.
>
> Roy Cope 96KLR
But this makes my point, no company is yet able to provide
us with the consistency of delivery on product. I have no
problems with Bill or any of us pointing out the frustration
and disappointment of pormises made and broken (think of
Chadd and Corbin for example). My point is that we have to
be very careful in using this medium and make it a point to
be fair at all times.
One other point, no one has mentioned the issue of quality.
Read Gino's review of the Five Stars stand distributed by
Ride West:
> Five Stars is a German company that makes center stands, engine
> guards and luggage carriers for a number of motorcycles, the
> KLR650 being one of them and it was the first stand I used on my
> KLR. Mounting the Five Stars is a cinch although the longer foot
> peg bolts supplied were inferior grade and sheared within a month
> of use. Five Stars offers only one size of stand for the KLR650 and
> Tengai with the KLR's rear tire lifting about 1.25 inches off of the
> ground. It has a curved tubular leg design with two springs similar
> that stand used in BMW R100GS motorcycles. Because of the
> curved leg design, the feet of the stand must be splayed apart to
> clear the swing arm when retracted. One of the problems with the
> Five Stars stand is that it cannot be retracted with first having the
> side stand down. Another is that, on some KLR's the center stand
> does not allow the side stand to retract far enough to disengage the
>side stand safety switch. The Five Stars uses the smallest tubing of
>the three and has some flex when the bike is on it. None the less, it is
> an easy stand to deploy, it is compatible with all skid plates and with
>high grade bolts, will serve most KLR owners well. Remember that when
> you order a Five Stars center stand, specify that you have a
> 1992 KLR650 regardless of what year bike you have.
This report has been out for several months, has Ride West
acknowledged the problem with the bolts and secured some
from another source? Has Five Stars? Not to my knowledge,
you have to rely on a kindly Zen guru in Milford, UT who
loves the simple life of quality to make up for the gap.
I can assure you that if you call Mike and tell him that a
bolt on one of his centerstands failed he is going to want
to drop everything to figure out what is going on. He will
get Jim, Carrie, his dad and everyone out in the shop
deploying the stand to figure out the problem.
And this concern...concern from someone who really rides
shouldn't be rewarded in our economic system?
Thanks for everyone's patience as I work this out of my
system.
Kurt
- --
Kurt Simpson KLR650 A12 OB
HawkGT '89 FS
XS-650 '77 FS
X
- -650 '79 FS
XS-650 '80 FS
Ask me how to subscribe to the KLR
Dual Sport Newsletter.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:30:17 -0600
From: Kurt Simpson <ajax@xmission.com>
Subject: (klr650) Todd in Moab
> Todd,
>
> I have been to Moab in early July and it was so hot I could not imagine
> riding in the canyons! August has got to be hot too! Maybe you should
> talk with Fred (let me know if you don't know Fred) about some rides in
> higher elevations in august.
I second Bill's concern, the heat and exposure is not to be
taken lightly. I suspect early morning and evening rides
would be the order of the day...
Kurt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:22:50 -0600
From: "Vikram Banerjee" <marbach@nucleus.com>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Centerstands and NKLR
Between Kurt and Bill we have two significantly different attitudes towards
the KLR aftermarket (neither right or wrong). Bill feels that a company
should meet a minimum standard of service, cost and stock or not attempt to
sell products for which it can't meet this standard. Kurt feels that we
should be understanding about the problems faced by a small company trying
to produce products for the KLR aftermarket, accepting some deficiencies in
service so that we have an aftermarket at all.
The problem as I see it is that we represent a very small segment of the
motorcycle market. Large companies will not manufacture products that are
KLR specific unless the modifications are minor. To redesign a product for
the KLR just doesn't seem to make economic sense for a big manufacturer.
The small guy that is willing to produce a KLR specific product faces the
difficulties of satisfying a small market - keeping enough stock without
tying up too much money, small production runs, buying small amounts of raw
materials.
I don't believe a small manufacturer can compete with Dennis Kirk in
certain areas, costs will be higher & stock will be lower. They can
however, beat Dennis Kirk with superior customer service and keeping their
customers informed. Most people on the list won't die if their Dual Star
centre stand is a couple weeks late, but they sure will get pissed off if
they expect a UPS truck on a certain day and have to wait two weeks without
any explanation.
If we take the attitude that "do it like Dennis Kirk or don't do it at all"
I feel we won't have any aftermarket manufacturers for KLR parts. The idea
that someone else will step up to the plate only applies if the market
exists to make it an attractive business venture. For example when I was
looking for a D/S bike I was very interested in the Honda Transalp, but
they haven't been sold in Canada since 1988 or 89. Why, because the market
for D/S bikes couldn't support Honda's investment for offering the Transalp
in Canada with Honda's typical stock and service levels. Would I be
willing to prepay and order a Transalp six months in advance? Yes! Do I
have that choice? No! Because Honda does it "right" or doesn't do it at
all. Ultimately we lose out in terms of selection.
But, to adress Bill's concerns I am saying somethings are beyond the
control of a small manufacturing business. They can't make stuff as
cheaply as an aftermarket part for a Suzuki GSX-R that will be made by the
hundreds or thousands. They can't afford to keep a lot of stock or raw
materials on hand, so there will be delays. What they CAN do is be honest
and open with customers. Giving accurate information on stock levels and
delivery dates. Updating the expected delivery dates as things change and
giving explanations for the delays.
Recomendations for the manufacturer:
- - keep staff who take orders well informed about current and future stock
levels
- - if stock levels are different than what you told a customer call him back
- - if you told a customer you'd get back to them - do it within 24hrs, even
if all you have to say is we are still working on the problem/getting the
info
- - increase stock levels at logical times such as the Spring, when people
are going to want products
- - set up a website an update it daily for stock levels and delivery dates
(saves you calling a lot of people)
Just some ideas,
Cheers,
Vik
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:53:09 -0700
From: Tom Simpson <bullet@scsn.net>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Bash Plate
At 08:29 AM 5/14/98 -0500, John Tranter wrote:
>Sorry if this is old news but I'm new to the list and was wondering what
>was wrong with the stock KLR 650 skid plate. I jacked the bike up to
>adjust the forks and the plastic skid plate did fine. It was strong
>enough to support the weight of the bike. Does it have a problem with
>impact? If so, do the aluminum aftermarket plates bend under impact?
>Just wondering if it's worth the $150 +.
The stocker can and do break if you bang it into rocks. A back
issue of the DSN has a sad tale of woe where a fellow went out to
play in the rocks with an already damaged plastic plate, He managed
to break a case half, which was a very pricey and painful experience,
I gather.
OTOH, if you manage to bang a Moose bashplate into something
hard enough do do real damage to it, you got bigger problems than
a bent bashplate, like a bent head, back, legs, ect. As I said
a while back, I doubt that most .38 Special loads would punch
through one of those things. They are almost literaly
bulletproof.
>One more newbie question. Is there any problem with center stands
>hanging up on obstacles in rough terrain? Thanks for the info. Great
>list.
Good Q. Like to know the answer to that one, m'self.
- -Tom
'96 KLR 650
0 bullet impacts to date.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:59:04 EDT
From: Cloudhid <Cloudhid@aol.com>
Subject: (klr650) Service that makes you smile
It's useful to me, to hear the problems others have had dealing
with vendors that I may someday use. Forewarned is forearmed.
I offer the following as more info, and balance.
My propensity to procrastinate, coupled with my boomer need
for instant gratification, always ends up costing me more, and
sometimes sets me up for disappointment. I don't have any
experience with Dual Star, but three other small companies
came shining through recently.
Fred Hink at Arrowhead rushed the items I needed, and were
delivered as promised. He has followed up several times with
me on a back order item.
Travelcade had my new (not off the shelf) saddle in 3 days.
Finally, when I called Tim at Drive Line to order highway pegs,
he confirmed that they were in stock, but said UPS had already
come for the day (it was 5pm his time). But he offered to drive
them there himself to get my order to me the next day!!
Is anyone getting this kind of service from the larger orgs?
Ron ( born under a good sign )
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:00:34 -0400
From: Bill Haycock <whaycoc@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Moab98 Article
Art Borin wrote:
>
> Bill Haycock wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure about this so maybe Art will fill here. many times as I
> > approached a biker coming toward me he/she would hold up two, three or
> > four fingers. I'm sure this meant to signal me how many bikers were yet
> > to come. Art, is this true? Would it help bikers if we did the same
> > signal?
>
> This is exactly right. 3 fingers means "3 back", or three riders behind. Yes it
> would help to see the same signal, and probably create good will in sharing
> communication.
>
> How did you pass when overtaking, especially on climbs?
If it was a normal flat road/trail I simply slowed down enough so as not
to startle the bike guy, eased around wide as practical and watched
carefully to see if I was going to cause the biker a problem.
On climbs: I remember two occasions where a biker was half way up a
climb and apparently having to work hard and pick his "slot" carefully.
In those cases I just stopped and waited till the biker was at the top!
If it was a normal climb with plenty of room to pass I just went up the
hill and passed as I would normally would. In general I tried to
exercise the same rules of the road as a power boat would with a boat
under sail.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:57:25 EDT
From: WKPII <WKPII@aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: (klr650) Service that makes you smile
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Three cheers for jobs well done!!! It is nice to hear of happy customers.
Walter
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:59:04 EDT
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Subject: (klr650) Service that makes you smile
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It's useful to me, to hear the problems others have had dealing
with vendors that I may someday use. Forewarned is forearmed.
I offer the following as more info, and balance.
My propensity to procrastinate, coupled with my boomer need
for instant gratification, always ends up costing me more, and
sometimes sets me up for disappointment. I don't have any
experience with Dual Star, but three other small companies
came shining through recently.
Fred Hink at Arrowhead rushed the items I needed, and were
delivered as promised. He has followed up several times with
me on a back order item.
Travelcade had my new (not off the shelf) saddle in 3 days.
Finally, when I called Tim at Drive Line to order highway pegs,
he confirmed that they were in stock, but said UPS had already
come for the day (it was 5pm his time). But he offered to drive
them there himself to get my order to me the next day!!
Is anyone getting this kind of service from the larger orgs?
Ron ( born under a good sign )
- --part0_895168646_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:20:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Jeffrey P Moorbeck <jmoorbec@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: (klr650) White Bros skid plate
Just finished mounting the skid plate. I bought it through Fred Hink, and
it came in two days as promised(great customer service). I went with the
White Bros. as it seems
as if the Moose skid plate is on permanent back order.
Mounting was a breeze, though I did have an access hole machined in so I
can change oil without removing the plate. It is a really nice looking
unit and I'll give it a workout this weekend. The only thing I don't like
is that it is not wide enough up front. The plate just barely wraps around
the water pump, could stand to be another 1/4" wider on this side of the
engine. On the left side of the motor you're left out to dry, about 5/8"
of case is left exposed. Not sure how the Moose or MSR skid plate compare
in coverage.
- -Jeff Moorbeck
'89 KL650
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:44:13 -0400
From: PAT_HENSLEY@HP-USA-om32.om.hp.com
Subject: (klr650) Re: GPS
Bill wrote:>>>>>
I saw on the KLR LIST a few days ago a few questions about GPS
receivers. I am no expert on this subject but have been doing research
on what model I wanted that best fit the application of an Adventure
touring and Dual sport motorcycle. I want to post a few of my opinions
here as well as inform others of a great company devoted to GPS's and
related equipment.
<<<<<<
Bill:
I have had a GPS of one form or another for about 4 years. I
agree pretty much with your comments and would like to add:
- GARMIN is the way to go because:
- there are many great shareware programs that work with
the GARMIN. Other GPS can't offer a large variety of SW.
- when Dual Sporting you have to have a way for the GPS to
conveniently and solidly mount. GARMIN makes are very reliable mount
for <$30 for it's newer units.
- Street Atlas by DeLorme can communicate directly with the
GARMIN. This allows you to mark points and D/L them to the GPS. You
can also send the GPS track data to Street Atlas and it will trace out
where you have been. This is handy in the deserts of Arizona because
you can identify all the misturns, etc that you made when you get back
home.
Just my opinion, but I am sold on the GARMIN unit. FYI- I currently
have the GPSII+.
Pat
PHX, AZ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: dietiker@fx.com
Subject: (klr650) rear shock testimonials
I know a few of you have replaced your stock rear shock with
Progressive Suspension or Works Performance units. Could you
give a mini-review of the shocks?
I am about to replace my stocker with 30K miles (damping? We
don' need no steenkin' damping!). My greatest fear is that
I'll end up with a shock that is harsh over the bumps I encounter
most often - freeway expansion joints and potholes.
For these, I think I need a shock that can respond quickly w/o
getting into some sort of oil lock situation. I've heard some people
complain that the WP shocks' check valve system doesn't open up
enough (or fast enough) to let the shock compress quickly.
If there are other available shocks (Ohlins?), I'd love to know.
Thanks,
Eric.
P.S. I apologize if this ends up posted twice...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 98 16:18:39 CST
From: "John W. Houchins --UNMCVM(JWHOUCHI)" <JWHOUCHI@UNMCVM.UNMC.EDU>
Subject: (klr650) NKLR Moab
From: John W. Houchins --UNMCVM(JWHOUCHI)
Hi Webmaster Bill and listers,
I attended the Moab rally, was there on Tues and met Neal Davis and Ken
Upchurch, Bill Haycock, Bob Carreras, John Neff and Dick Antonius
at the Moab Diner. They invited me ride the White Rim Trail the next
day. I wasn't sure if I could do this trail or not. My Klr expierence
was limited to pavement touring and gravel roads in Nebraska and Iowa, I
had heard of the trail from Mt biking friends and was a little
apprehensive. But I did it, and loved it. I want to thank all those more
experienced guys for letting me ride with them, I learned more that day
about riding 4 wheel drive roads and dirt than I had since getting the
KLR one and a half years ago. They were patient in pointing out mistakes
and treated me like one of the group. If you ever get a chance to ride
with these guys do it. They have much experience, as in most of North,
Central and south America and probably the rest of the World. Anyway
thanks Neal, John, Bob, Bill, Ken, and Dick. You Guys Rock!
Also as a Mt biker, I took mine along and got in two rides, The
Slickrock, whew!, this one is hard, it whipped my butt, could only do
about 6 miles. and Gemmini bridges. I agreed with everything Bill and
Art said about sharing the trail, bicyclist are doing the same thing you
are, enjoying the ride just be courteous and share. To mt bikers Moab is
a most fsmous place to ride, its a pilgramage thing to ride there, so
all you see are experienced riders. Most keep to the right but when it
gets steep you have to pick a line. Yeah, we motorcyclist do have an
image problem, so go out of your way to be friendly to bicyclist, it
does make a difference.
Moab was great riding and comraderie for me. I'll be there next time,
please make it spring or fall for the great weather.
I met and rode with so many new people, Fred, Joel, Vic and Kathleen,
Tom, Walter, Russ, Mark, Brannco (sp), Gino, and many more Thanks to all
see you on the road somewhere.
John Houchins (new but on the steep part of the curve) 4724 Davenport St
#10 Omaha NE 68132 402.551.5793
P.S. How about a directory as I have pictures to send but no addresses
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:34:51 EDT
From: WKPII <WKPII@aol.com>
Subject: (klr650) Premier front brake rotor for sale
Hi :-) I have a new Premier brand front brake rotor for sale. Will fit 87-98
KLR's. Cost is $78.00 plus s&h. Anybody interested?
Walter in Denver
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:21:25 -0700
From: conallob@webtv.net (Conall O'Brien)
Subject: (klr650) exhaust sys. heat guard
Any KLR owners have a stock exhaust heat guard for sale? Not the heat
guard on the muffler, but the one on the header section, near the motor.
Thanks in advance,
Conall
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 06:56:54 -0400
From: Todd Emsley <temsley@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Moab98 Article
Bill or anyone,
You spoke of riding at higher elevations in August. I am dialed-in
right now, but the elevation here is about 150'. Should I plan on
jetting changes or will the bike still survive as is. Since the
elevation will only richen the mixture I'm not worried about engine
damage, (detonation,etc.) that a LEAN mixture may cause. What is your
home elevation, and did you make any carb adjustments upon arrival?
Thanks!
Todd A11
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:00:14 -0400
From: Todd Emsley <temsley@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Dual Star Company
Stuart,
I'll be collecting checks for excess bandwidth, thank you!
Todd A11
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:14:32 -0400
From: Todd Emsley <temsley@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Moab98 Article
Bill,
I have been driving our family boat since age ten, so the marine
references are very useful. Thanks for the tips, one and all.
Todd A11
28' Cruisers Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:17:05 -0400
From: Todd Emsley <temsley@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Centerstands and NKLR
Vik,
You hit the nail on the head!!!!! KEEP THE CUSTOMER INFORMED!!!
Todd A11
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:01:30 -0400
From: Bill Haycock <whaycoc@ibm.net>
Subject: (klr650) Technical question
Russ,
I sent your question to a few guys that might be able to help you.
Also, submitted the question to the KLR LIST - someone should be able to
give you a few ideas
Bill Haycock
Name: Russ
E-mail address: whagee@primenet.com
I've got a technical question. I bought a used 94 KLX650C
with low miles (2.4k). The question is a noise which I
would swear is a loose cam chain. The noise lessens as the
motor warms up. I've eliminated piston slap and the valve
train as culprits. The bike runs great otherwise. My dealer
says drop it off and they'll call if the bill gets too
"BIG". I've also tried to get in touch with Larry Roeseler
at Stroker Inc. He seems to be very busy as I can never
reach him. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem
with they're KLX/KLR?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:09:33 -0400
From: Kovach E <ekovach@carmichaels-area.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Bash Plate
John
The stock skid plate does a fine job, however it lacks big time when it comes to the water pump and side cases. One bash and you will wish that you put up the money.
cio evan...
98 klr
85 krt
91krs
>>> John Tranter <twocomm@bellsouth.net> 05/14/98 09:29AM >>>
Sorry if this is old news but I'm new to the list and was wondering what
was wrong with the stock KLR 650 skid plate. I jacked the bike up to
adjust the forks and the plastic skid plate did fine. It was strong
enough to support the weight of the bike. Does it have a problem with
impact? If so, do the aluminum aftermarket plates bend under impact?
Just wondering if it's worth the $150 +.
One more newbie question. Is there any problem with center stands
hanging up on obstacles in rough terrain? Thanks for the info. Great
list.
John Tranter
'98 KLR 650
'93 Concours
Montgomery, AL
Rick Clarke wrote:
>
> > << Does the stock bash plate from the Tengai bolt right on to the KLR650? >>
> >
SNIP
> It's just another easily
> shattered piece of plastic.
SNIP
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:11:50 -0600
From: "Fred Hink" <moabmc@lasal.net>
Subject: (klr650) Re: Technical question
First thing I would check is the counter ballancer chain.
Fred Hink
moabmc@lasal.net
Arrowhead Motorsports
http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/khink/moabmc/index.html
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Haycock <whaycoc@ibm.net>
To: Gino <efpoklu@sandia.gov>; Fred in Moab,UT <moabmc@lasal.net>
Cc: KLR LIST <klr650@lists.xmission.com>; whagee@primenet.com
<whagee@primenet.com>
Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 7:00 AM
Subject: Technical question
>Russ,
>
>I sent your question to a few guys that might be able to help you.
>Also, submitted the question to the KLR LIST - someone should be able to
>give you a few ideas
>
>Bill Haycock
>
> Name: Russ
> E-mail address: whagee@primenet.com
>
>I've got a technical question. I bought a used 94 KLX650C
>with low miles (2.4k). The question is a noise which I
>would swear is a loose cam chain. The noise lessens as the
>motor warms up. I've eliminated piston slap and the valve
>train as culprits. The bike runs great otherwise. My dealer
>says drop it off and they'll call if the bill gets too
>"BIG". I've also tried to get in touch with Larry Roeseler
>at Stroker Inc. He seems to be very busy as I can never
>reach him. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem
>with they're KLX/KLR?
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:36:24 -0400
From: Kovach E <ekovach@carmichaels-area.k12.pa.us>
Subject: (klr650) Re: GPS
I follow as many do the BMW list there has been a lot of thread about GPS units you may want to tune in and check out the list and digest.
