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klr650-digest          Sunday, March 8 1998          Volume 01 : Number 015




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:16:11 -0500
From: Cameron Scott Cole <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) (no subject)

I am new to the KLR scene, but I bought my bike because every review and
shoot-out I read stated the KLR was one of the toughest bikes in its class.
 On top of being reliable, when something does break it is an inexpensive
bike to repair compared to the other dual sports.  This is not to say it is
as durable as an aluminum framed dirt/enduro bike, but those bikes way in a
100+lbs less and don't worry about being comfortable.

Side note here, I have cracked frames on three different dirt bikes.  For
this reason, I am VERY interested in hearing maintenance and break-down
troubles with this bike.

Just my two cents, Cameron.

- -----Original Message-----
From:    Thomas Simpson [SMTP:[e-mail]]
Sent:    Sunday, March 08, 1998 3:17 PM
To:    [e-mail]
Subject:    Re: (klr650) (no subject)

Sham wrote:
>
> I agree with this statement.  Why oh why tamper with it, a few
> improvements where its need the most.  Maybe some extra's like gadgets
> are understandable.  More power, not on this bike!  It's not meant to
> take that abuse.  I should know, I lived in a part od the world where
> 99% of the bikes are dual sport and over 500cc.  Of all, the Kawi was
> the least popular because of its lack of longevity.  Don't get me wrong,
> its a great bike but was never meant to be abused mechanically.  Want
> more?  I have plenty of facts to dish out.


    Start dishing. One thing the KLR has a rep for is reliability
and I would like to hear a dissenting view if you have one to offer.


- -Tom
'96 KLR 650

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:19:02 -0500
From: Cameron Scott Cole <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Caution

Would you be kind enough to give a part number and a price?

- -----Original Message-----
From:    Jim & Melissa Sherlock [SMTP:[e-mail]]
Sent:    Sunday, March 08, 1998 4:06 PM
To:    KLR E-mail
Subject:    (klr650) Caution

At the risk of being scoffed at by the "engineering" types on this list, I'd
like to warn everyone about a possible problem waiting to occur. This is
primarily intended for those that ride in the dirt with their KLR's.

You may wish to purchase and carry with you a spare bracket for mounting the
rear brake master brake cyclinder. This bracket is basically hanging out in
the breeze and can show a tendency to break should you fall on your right
side. I think motocross boots can asist this breakage by providing a stiff
pivot point. This can be a real bummer if you ride your KLR to and from your
dirt site.

The first this happened to me I was 70 miles away from home. My wife and I
were slowly tooling through the forest access roads when the marginal stock
tires met up with some wet clay. The result was one of those hilarious slow
speed slide outs and one broken bracket. Then a 70 mile ride home with one
brake and a whole lot of shifting and slow riding. The second time occurred
while negotiating some tight rock formations and the back end slid out a
little under power and the bracket struck a rock. Once again, a broken
bracket. Only this time I had a spare.

Just thought I'd share. Better to be safe than sorry.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:13:45 -0500
From: Thomas Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) (no subject)

Sham wrote:
>
> Thomas Simpson wrote:
>
> > Start dishing. One thing the KLR has a rep for is reliability
> > and I would like to hear a dissenting view if you have one to offer.
> >
> > -Tom
> > '96 KLR 650
>
>   Certainly and, I did say that the KLR is a good bike but having lived in
> Africa where the conditions of roads, fuels, oils and lack of spare parts are
> concerned, one can form a rather convincing argument on what is a long lived
> bike.  Before I begin though, I must add that I have had, repaired, ridden and
> enjoyed the following bikes:  DR 250/ 350/ 600/ 650/ 800, XT 250/ 500/ 600/
> 660, XR 500/ 600, XL 600/ 650R, KLR 250/ 600/ 650 , XT 750Z, Africa Twin, BM's
> and most other dual sport bikes.  Get the picture?  They are all good bikes
> with their own plus and minuses...


    <massive snip>



    Thanks for your viewpoint, and probably a very valid one
at that. If you would, you might want to cross-post all that to
the DUST mailing list, as they might be interested as well.
I would be willingto do so if youd like.

    It should be noted that the XT600, which is the only
bike in this class that you realy seemed to rank above the KLR
has not been imported to the US for a couple of years now.
I had a shot at a minty one for $1,500 a few months ago, and
missed it.

    What parts in particular fail on the KLR? Is it
mostly a top end and piston/rings affair?

    We already know that they are sensitive to oil, and I
noted that mine only like realy good gas.



- -Tom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:04:45 -0500
From: Cameron Scott Cole <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) (no subject)

This is my last reply on this subject:

I am no desert rider and my experience is VERY limited in low humidity 100+
degree conditions.  According to your email the KLR only falters in two
places, cooling and its gas requirements.

Being water-cooled you have the option to use a performance coolant.  These
coolants can  lower the temp of a bike by folds.  I have several
acquaintances who race water cooled enduros in almost every climate and you
just can't beat a water-cooled system for diversity.  The biggest draw back
is the 10+lbs it adds to the bike.  The KLR also has the water pump stuck
out and a plastic skid plate.  That should be a little better designed, but
the inexpensive Moose plate add-on seems pretty sturdy and seems to cover
the pump.  Gas quality I know nothing about.  However, I would guess with
an inexpensive fuel filter and some octane juice you can remedy that
problem.  Of course this adds to the expense.

It seems you didn't mention any real design flaws for not choosing the KLR
sans the head location.  For example, I had never heard the bracket for
mounting the rear brake master brake cylinder was vulnerable.  I will make
certain I carry one of these on my excursions.

I agree the Honda is a great dirt bike, but really would take some work to
make it perform on the street like the KLR.  You mention the XT, do they
even make anything above a 350?  I didn't give this bike a chance simply
because Yamaha doesn't seem to have anything power wise that competes with
Suz, Honda, Kaw, KTM, etc.  If this is true, wouldn't it be better to
compare the XT with the KLR250?  In addition, the XT  would require a
couple of mods to give it the range the KLR has.  Also, I noticed you
didn't mention the KTM Duke.  I hear it is one of the better performers.

Fortunately for me I have neither of the concerns you listed, so I think I
am going to stick with this bike until I break it beyond repair.  That
makes four cents and I am done.

- -----Original Message-----
From:    Sham [SMTP:[e-mail]]
Sent:    Saturday, February 07, 1998 4:14 PM
To:    [e-mail]
Subject:    Re: (klr650) (no subject)



Thomas Simpson wrote:

> Start dishing. One thing the KLR has a rep for is reliability
> and I would like to hear a dissenting view if you have one to offer.
>
> -Tom
> '96 KLR 650

  Certainly and, I did say that the KLR is a good bike but having lived in
Africa where the conditions of roads, fuels, oils and lack of spare parts
are
concerned, one can form a rather convincing argument on what is a long
lived
bike.  Before I begin though, I must add that I have had, repaired, ridden
and
enjoyed the following bikes:  DR 250/ 350/ 600/ 650/ 800, XT 250/ 500/ 600/
660, XR 500/ 600, XL 600/ 650R, KLR 250/ 600/ 650 , XT 750Z, Africa Twin,
BM's
and most other dual sport bikes.  Get the picture?  They are all good bikes
with their own plus and minuses. But, when it comes to longevity,
endurance,
frequency of maintenance, frequency of repairs, ability to cope with poor
fuels, cost of repair, etc. (I have left out availability of parts and
accessories because it has no bearing whatsoever on the bike); they all
rate
differently.  The most sensitive bike, requiring lots of TLC is the Honda
XR's.  They are designed light all round including the engine and cannot go
the distance before either a service or repair is necessitated.  The Honda
philosophy is competition and is not designed to cruise for long periods of
time or feed on a minimum of good oils and fuels.  In my own experience, it
is
the worst bike to be considered a dual sport.  Frankly speaking, it is
really
a 4 stroke motocross bike with dual sport legal requirements.  It has to
said
that the XR's are as sensitive as a moto-X bike.  I am not trying to put
down
anyone but doesn't experience account for anything?  For this argument, I
would like to exclude the XR's as they really don't fit the criteria of a
dual
sport bike.
So, I begin this argument constructively with one thought in mind, unbiased
and speaking only from experience.  Of the 3 more common dual sport bikes
in
our league, specifically the DR, Xt and KLR, the XT is the most reliable.
 It
has long been considered the camel of dual sport bikes. They are more
frequently stolen and the engines used as water pumps in Somalia as they
can
go on for hours and hours.  They don't perform like the others in respect
to
performance, lightness, suspension, etc. But, can use low grade oil, low
grade
fuel and go longer and further than the others.  More importantly, they
last
longer before the engine or trani requires a rebuild. Sure , the engine
becomes noisy, grunty and excessive vibration sets in after a while but
requiring little care and lasting as long as it does, isn't it worth it?
 An
important thing to remember is that the KLR is the only one of the 3 that
is
water cooled, apart from a crash, fan / sensor failure or leakage, the only
conceivable reason it is there is for cooling more effectively as compared
to
the other 2 that are oil cooled.  I do agree that water cooling is more
effective and will definitely prolong the life of a bike; provided nothing
goes wrong with it.  The DR up to the 600 was a nice bike to ride, a cross
between the XR and XT.  However, the most common problems with it were the
top
end of the engine.  Tappets or rockers would wear out frequently, timing
chains as frequent and noisy from the first few thousand kilometers.
Sensitive to fuels and oils which heightened the noise, it was not one of
my
favorites.  More sensitive, it reminded me too much of the XR.  Not worth
it!
It requires too much TLC for a dual purpose bike, not acceptable as I would
rather deal with that sensitivity on an XR.  This brings us to the KLR.
Again, I will remind you that I did say that its a great bike. But, it was
never conditioned to be upgraded.  The 650 is a big bore version of the 600
and increasing the horsepower to it would only increase the sensitivity of
the
bike.  There is only so much you can do for it now.  Already upgraded to a
650, what remains is playing around with sprockets and suspensions.  Its
your
prerogative what you do with it and this is only my opinion.  More to the
point, The KLR unlike the others being water cooled is somewhat its own
drawback.  I agree that the fan was made for both extremely hot temps and
sitting in traffic.  But, while high temp traffic use is okay, the traffic
stop and go situation is its weak point.  The heat has no real place to
escape
.  The head is covered in front by the rad and on top the tank; the head
sits
in this heat and it just pours out the heat from the sides.  Not a big deal
but this heat that you may have experienced in traffic (stop and go or
standstill) is to much for the bike to handle.  The sensor is designed to
sense the water temp, not the engine and as a rule the frequency on which
the
fan comes on is an indication that the engine is heating up too much.  If
you
were to install an oil temp gauge, you would get a more reliable reading on
the engine as compared to the water temp.  We are now almost there.
 Overall,
the KLR is an excellent bike but it cannot be said that it offers you the
best
in terms of longevity.  Don't let the water cooling deceive you.  It is
better
but doesn't necessarily mean reliability.  People have a way of looking at
the
KLX and equate it to the KLR, not so.  More to my point, the KLR lasted the
least in Africa because of the heat factor.  The other 2 bikes were
designed
to handle that heat in a far more affective way.  Surprised?  So was I when
I
learnt through experience that the KLR is water cooled, I looked into it.
 I
found that the cooling assembly in the front prevented fresh flowing air
even
in traffic to carry away the heat.  The heat becomes trapped and slowly
seeps
out from the sides and through the front edges of the side covers.  If the
water cooling assembly were not in the way, air would flow more easily but,
the KLR was never designed without the cooler.  So you live with it and
expect
the heat damage.  It doesn't really happen in a direct forceful way but
over
time.  This is what causes the engine damage again, over time.  This
doesn't
mean that its a bad bike, I have one and am proud of it and have also
ridden
the Tengai around Australia, but if I had to take it to a place like
Africa, I
would look at the long term.  I may even use it but with a few retrofit
improvements. On another note, It also is sensitive to oils and fuels.  Not
really a worry in N. America is it?
Forgive me if I offend my fellow KLR comrades but there is no better source
of
knowledge than experience.

My Best Regards to you all

Sham
97 KLR650R (what's the 2nd R for?)
91 XT600Z Tenere Special

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:13:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dale W. Borgeson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) klr650 in Africa

Sham

That was a great analysis of the use of dualsport bikes in Africa.
Balanced and thorough. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Cheers
- --
Dale Borgeson    [e-mail]    Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:10:14 -0500
From: Cameron Scott Cole <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) A12

I just noticed on my invoice for my KLR it lists KLR650A12 as the model.  What does the A12 stand for?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:21:20 -0500
From: "R. K. Dow" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Re: klr650-digest V1 #14

<HTML>
<I>Thomas Simpson wrote:</I><I></I>

<P><I>> Start dishing. One thing the KLR has a rep for is reliability</I>
<BR><I>> and I would like to hear a dissenting view if you have one to
offer.</I>
<BR><I>></I>
<BR><I>> -Tom</I>
<BR><I>> '96 KLR 650</I><I></I>

<P><I>Sham wrote:</I><I></I>

<P><I>Certainly and, I did say that the KLR is a good bike but having lived
in</I>
<BR><I>Africa where the conditions of roads, fuels, oils and lack of spare
parts are</I>
<BR><I>concerned, one can form a rather convincing argument on what is
a long lived</I>
<BR><I>bike. . .</I>
<BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<P>Sham:

<P>FWIW, I had my 1990 KLR 650 in Africa--Niger (real hot and sandy) and
in Cameroon (all bad dirt, mountain roads)--road it hard, and it was (and
still is) absolutelty bullet proof.

<P>From everything I've read there is nothing better, IN GENERAL, for dual
purpose riding than the KLR, especially when you factor in price. The fact
that you can mod the f**k out of it (to meet specific needs and to waste
money) is just icing on the cake.

<P>Randy Dow
<BR> </HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:22:09 -0500
From: Thomas Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) A12

Cameron Scott Cole wrote:
>
> I just noticed on my invoice for my KLR it lists KLR650A12 as the model.  What does the A12 stand for?

    A means it is a standard KLR. The B model is the Tengai.


    12 means the 12th year of production.


- -Tom
'96 KLR650A10

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 14:36:46 -0800
From: Tim Clayton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Plastic treatment

Hello gang,

As I've opted not to treat my KLR with kid gloves - I have scuffed up my
front fender...   Do any of you have experience with buffing out and
dressing the plastic components on the KLR??  It's a beautiful bike and
after I put it down I'd love to restore it's original look...

It also dinged up the left side side of the engine case (cosmetic damage
only - whew!) so there's probably not much I can do about that...

(Seems when I know I'm hitting the dirt I default to left side down....)

Thanks in advance
Tim

(Gino - my money's on the way tomorrow morning)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 16:41:47 -0600
From: Chadd Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Gripsters?

I have a silly question reguarding the Avon AM24 Gripsters. Why does the
tread "point" in different directions on the front and the rear tire? On the
rear tire the tread points forward, on the front tire the tread points backward.


Thanks
Chadd Thompson
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 14:38:31 -0800
From: Tim Clayton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Moab

Dang - sorry to hit with multiple messages - but I thought about this right
after I hit "send"

Got a room reserved at the Landmark Hotel for Fri/Sat of Moab - looking
forward to seeing everyone there

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:58:55 -0700
From: "Fred Hink" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Gripsters?

Chadd,
The rear tire is designed to grip under acceleration and the front is
designed for braking only.
Fred Hink
[e-mail]
Arrowhead Motorsports
http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/khink/moabmc/index.html

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chadd Thompson <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 3:46 PM
Subject: (klr650) Gripsters?


>I have a silly question reguarding the Avon AM24 Gripsters. Why does the
>tread "point" in different directions on the front and the rear tire? On
the
>rear tire the tread points forward, on the front tire the tread points
backward.
>
>
>Thanks
>Chadd Thompson
>[e-mail]
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:06:34 -0500
From: Sham <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) klr650 in Africa

Thank you to those out there who could stand the criticism on the KLR.
By far though, the KLR is the most favored bike as it offers more for
less.  However, it also means that cutting costs come into the
production of the bike.  Having said that, unless you opt to spend the
+$50,000, to get a custom prepared bike, I would have to say that the
KLR is truly versatile.  I wouldn't want to be boastfully proud and
claim that the KLR is the most capable nor would I be a pessimist and
claim that it is inferior.  My finding are based on experience.  Randy
wrote that he was in Africa, specifically Niger & Cameroon.  I think he
missed the point, these findings are based over a long period of time
and many many kilometers or miles as you guys call it.  The bikes I talk
about have done the average of 100,000kms.  Naturally some of you will
say, WELL, its about time to overhaul isn't it SHAM???  I will respond
to that by saying that not all required this overhaul.  The XT went on
another 50 to 70,000  in some cases.  The KLR would need this at between
70 to 90,000 kms.  The DR at about 60,000. the XR at 40,000!!!
Surprised?  So was I when you consider that you pay more for the XR.
And, there is the XT600E and Z (Tenere) model but never took of sales in
N. America.  Believe me, if anyone out there has an Xt600, they will
only have good things to say about the engine, the rest of it depends on
how many times you drop it.  Remember that bikes like anything else are
man made and are only designed to take a limit of abuse.  I have not
mentioned the KTM as I really don't know much about but if you followed
the Paris Dakar, you would have noted that its prone to frame breakage;
on the upper rear shock mount.  Surprise!  High performance doesn't mean
better. Some of you already point out the drawbacks of the KLR (gear
shifter, rear brake bracket, skid plate) without all these
modifications, this bike would not make it through Africa unless you
don't ever fall and walk your bike.  The mod's I referred to would be
what I have commonly seen, an extra fan, upgrade fan blade and manual
fan override switch.  Apart form the cooling, the skid plate, gear
shifter and new to me the bracket for the rear brake, are where I would
put my money.
Once again, and without having to use any sublime form of rudeness, I
find that the best form of communications is a constructive one.  Apart
from talking about things, what can we do?
There are people I have met who come to Africa and leave unscathed,
perhaps luck, perhaps a lack of the same experience.  But, the majority
go back with a battered bike!  Its what ridding in Africa is about.
I will tell you though that my own reason for choosing the KLR was the
fact that it was the cheapest.  It doesn't matter to me which bike I
have, I know the big 3 well enough to give it my attention.  And all of
them do require some TLC; the degrees may be different though.  I have
seen one common element in the KLR riders that live in Africa, they
remove the 2 side rad covers for more ventilation.  Don't worry, the
have on their bikes a wire mesh replacement.

Best Regards

Sham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 15:09:00 -0800
From: Tim Clayton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Aerostich saddlebags

Hello again - I just received on Sat my new "expensive" Aerostich bags - but
they don't seem to fit well on the KLR at all with the stock rear luggage
mount and "wings".....

Could someone tell me how they've got theirs set up??   I don't see how my
rider would ever have leg room with these bags...   If I try to move the
bags back then the rear mount kicks them out to where the straps almost
don't reach - and the bags hit the tailpipe...

Did I make an expensive mistake??  Will Aero take them back??

(PS:  I have ordered the side protectors from  the other Tim - they're not
here yet)

Thanks
Tim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:34:34 -0600
From: Chadd Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Gripsters?

At 03:58 PM 3/8/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Chadd,
>The rear tire is designed to grip under acceleration and the front is
>designed for braking only.
>Fred Hink
>[e-mail]
>Arrowhead Motorsports
>http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/khink/moabmc/index.html
>
>

That is what I was thinking but wasn't for sure. Sure is strange looking
though :O)


Thanks
Chadd Thompson
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:52:41 -0600
From: "Jim & Melissa Sherlock" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Caution

I believe it is called a "Stay, Master" #35011-1327. Retail was $24.50.

Jim
- -----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Scott Cole <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 3:27 PM
Subject: RE: (klr650) Caution


>Would you be kind enough to give a part number and a price?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim & Melissa Sherlock [SMTP:[e-mail]]
>Sent: Sunday, March 08, 1998 4:06 PM
>To: KLR E-mail
>Subject: (klr650) Caution
>
>At the risk of being scoffed at by the "engineering" types on this list,
I'd
>like to warn everyone about a possible problem waiting to occur. This is
>primarily intended for those that ride in the dirt with their KLR's.
>
>You may wish to purchase and carry with you a spare bracket for mounting
the
>rear brake master brake cyclinder. This bracket is basically hanging out in
>the breeze and can show a tendency to break should you fall on your right
>side. I think motocross boots can asist this breakage by providing a stiff
>pivot point. This can be a real bummer if you ride your KLR to and from
your
>dirt site.
>
>The first this happened to me I was 70 miles away from home. My wife and I
>were slowly tooling through the forest access roads when the marginal stock
>tires met up with some wet clay. The result was one of those hilarious slow
>speed slide outs and one broken bracket. Then a 70 mile ride home with one
>brake and a whole lot of shifting and slow riding. The second time occurred
>while negotiating some tight rock formations and the back end slid out a
>little under power and the bracket struck a rock. Once again, a broken
>bracket. Only this time I had a spare.
>
>Just thought I'd share. Better to be safe than sorry.
>
>Jim
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:46:32 -0700
From: "Fred Hink" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Gripsters?

Chadd,
If you are mounting the tires make sure if there is a mark (usually a yellow
dot or circle) that it is at the valve stem.  This marks the light side of
the tire and will help with the balancing of the tire.  If you have rim
locks then I think I would put the dot on the rim lock side.
Fred Hink
[e-mail]
Arrowhead Motorsports
http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/khink/moabmc/index.html

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chadd Thompson <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: (klr650) Gripsters?


>At 03:58 PM 3/8/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Chadd,
>>The rear tire is designed to grip under acceleration and the front is
>>designed for braking only.
>>Fred Hink
>>[e-mail]
>>Arrowhead Motorsports
>>http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/khink/moabmc/index.html
>>
>>
>
>That is what I was thinking but wasn't for sure. Sure is strange looking
>though :O)
>
>
>Thanks
>Chadd Thompson
>[e-mail]
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:06:11 -0600
From: Tim Royer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) (no subject)

I have several threads that I want to comment on.

    1.Thanks Bob for a preliminary explanation of the excitation portion of
the vibration equation in our collective KLR's. I'll just have to wait
for your account in the DSN to learn about the resonant frequencies of
the most common components (do you have access to an accelerometer and
spectrum analyzer)  I hope that it will open up a discussion  of the
effective dampening formula to help isolate the rider from the chronic
effects of this vibration ( 100 miles is all I can do before I  have to
stop and get the feeling back into my behind.).

2. Thanks to Sham for his insightful comparison of DS bikes in harsh
conditions. ( and to think I sold my 93 XT350 when I bought my 98 KLR)
And for the record, I plan to keep motor stock until I have a major over
haul.

3.Thanks to Tom Simpson for his insight on auxiliary lighting and
acessorising [sp.?] your KLR on a budget
  (I made my saddlebags out of a couple of east German military mail
pouches.)

Gino, my DSN subscription is on the way. And if you decide to revive the
t-shirt project, I will order two XXLs

Yours
Tim (Kaw-Thump The Back Road Bomber)
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:35:19 EST
From: RKJ38 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Re: (klr650) (no subject)

Tim,  yes, I have access to the proper equipment.  It may take a bit before i
can sneak the bike into the lab.  On your other comment, let me think a bit
about how we might dampen things a bit.  You know most of the KLR problems are
"structure borne", that is the vibration travels from the source (that cool
engine) through paths to you.  We can quiet the source (not likely), isolate
from the source (rubber engine mts like a later BMW R27 single) or STIFFEN
critical elements and/or attachments along the path.  We'll have to look at
the bike.  I have had some conversations with our NVH guru, he tells me it's
probably hopeless without adding significant weight.  We were discussing how
much stiffer we'd need to make the bars and or mirrors to clear things up...we
did a little rule of thumb math and decided we'd have to make the bars about 5
times stiffer to help, or the mirrors 4 times stiffer (he recommended a
"triangulation" bracket to tie the mirror back to the bar).  I didn't pursue
that.      Bob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:07:17 -0800
From: "Robert Morgan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Caution

I was talking with Mike Walburn at Dual Star the other day about a center
stand and other stuff (nice guy), and he said Dual Star was working on a
heavy duty rear brake master bracket.  His phone number in Washington state
is 425 776-7433.  He may have E mail but I don't know it.
peace  Morgan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:21:32 -0500
From: Sham <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) KLR in Africa

Thank you to those out there who could stand the criticism on the KLR.
By far though, the KLR is the most favored bike as it offers more for
less.  However, it also means that cutting costs come into the
production of the bike.  Having said that, unless you opt to spend the
+$50,000, to get a custom prepared bike, I would have to say that the
KLR is truly versatile.  I wouldn't want to be boastfully proud and
claim that the KLR is the most capable nor would I be a pessimist and
claim that it is inferior.  My finding are based on experience.  Randy
wrote that he was in Africa, specifically Niger & Cameroon.  I think he
missed the point, these findings are based over a long period of time
and many many kilometers or miles as you guys call it.  The bikes I talk

about have done the average of 100,000kms.  Naturally some of you will
say, WELL, its about time to overhaul isn't it SHAM???  I will respond
to that by saying that not all required this overhaul.  The XT went on
another 50 to 70,000  in some cases.  The KLR would need this at between

70 to 90,000 kms.  The DR at about 60,000. the XR at 40,000!!!
Surprised?  So was I when you consider that you pay more for the XR.
And, there is the XT600E and Z (Tenere) model but never took of sales in

N. America.  Believe me, if anyone out there has an Xt600, they will
only have good things to say about the engine, the rest of it depends on

how many times you drop it.  Remember that bikes like anything else are
man made and are only designed to take a limit of abuse.  I have not
mentioned the KTM as I really don't know much about but if you followed
the Paris Dakar, you would have noted that its prone to frame breakage;
on the upper rear shock mount.  Surprise!  High performance doesn't mean

better. Some of you already point out the drawbacks of the KLR (gear
shifter, rear brake bracket, skid plate) without all these
modifications, this bike would not make it through Africa unless you
don't ever fall and walk your bike.  The mod's I referred to would be
what I have commonly seen, an extra fan, upgrade fan blade and manual
fan override switch.  Apart form the cooling, the skid plate, gear
shifter and new to me the bracket for the rear brake, are where I would
put my money.
Once again, and without having to use any sublime form of rudeness, I
find that the best form of communications is a constructive one.  Apart
from talking about things, what can we do?
There are people I have met who come to Africa and leave unscathed,
perhaps luck, perhaps a lack of the same experience.  But, the majority
go back with a battered bike!  Its what ridding in Africa is about.
I will tell you though that my own reason for choosing the KLR was the
fact that it was the cheapest.  It doesn't matter to me which bike I
have, I know the big 3 well enough to give it my attention.  And all of
them do require some TLC; the degrees may be different though.  I have
seen one common element in the KLR riders that live in Africa, they
remove the 2 side rad covers for more ventilation.  Don't worry, the
have on their bikes a wire mesh replacement.

Best Regards

Sham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:48:17 -0500
From: "Michael Magnatta" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Plastic treatment -check out Mother's Plastic Polish

Tim:

I erroneously gave out the wrong name for the plastic polish I have used to
clean up my '89 KLR - It is actually made by "Mother's" (I also use their
Caranuba wax on my Cherokee, the hard stuff, not the squeeze on crap), but
I'm digressing again. Mother's plastic polish is also designed to work on
clear plastics, and it does a very nice job at clearing up the windscreen of
my KLR, as it is designed to do this also. It comes in a bright red 8 ounce
container, use it, it works!!!

Mike Magnatta
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim Clayton <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 5:40 PM
Subject: (klr650) Plastic treatment


>Hello gang,
>
>As I've opted not to treat my KLR with kid gloves - I have scuffed up my
>front fender...   Do any of you have experience with buffing out and
>dressing the plastic components on the KLR??  It's a beautiful bike and
>after I put it down I'd love to restore it's original look...
>
>It also dinged up the left side side of the engine case (cosmetic damage
>only - whew!) so there's probably not much I can do about that...
>
>(Seems when I know I'm hitting the dirt I default to left side down....)
>
>Thanks in advance
>Tim
>
>(Gino - my money's on the way tomorrow morning)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun,  8 Mar 98 18:33:54 PST
From: "Marick Payton"   <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Dual sport bikes reliability

Sham,

What did you mean by the following comment in your very informative
review of the +'s and -'s of various dual sport bikes?

> People have a way of looking at the KLX and equate it to the KLR,
not so.

(I just bought a very low mileage '94 KLX, which I like a lot.)

Marick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:47:54 -0700
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Aerostich saddlebags

Tim Clayton wrote:
>
> Hello again - I just received on Sat my new "expensive" Aerostich bags - but
> they don't seem to fit well on the KLR at all with the stock rear luggage
> mount and "wings".....
>
> Could someone tell me how they've got theirs set up??   I don't see how my
> rider would ever have leg room with these bags...   If I try to move the
> bags back then the rear mount kicks them out to where the straps almost
> don't reach - and the bags hit the tailpipe...
>
> Did I make an expensive mistake??  Will Aero take them back??
>
> (PS:  I have ordered the side protectors from  the other Tim - they're not
> here yet)
>
> Thanks
> Tim

Not to fear, Aerostitch is great about taking things back...you have 30
days to work with them (they better because my current inventory
includes: (1) set dry bags (2) sets panniers - big and little (1) bib
converter (1) Darien coat and pants...let's see that's about $1,350; on
the way is (1) a roadcrafter 1 piece and (2) roadcrafter 2 piece tops
(1) roadcrafter 1 piece bottom (1) special order bib converter and (1)
ellipse special order...that's about $2,000...lest you get the wrong
impression most all of that stuff is going back after I figure what my
needs are and what fits).

Tim's side protectors will make all the difference, I just mounted them
this weekend along with the highway bars and they make soft bags doable.
Don't make any judgments until you get the protectors. Meanwhile, I'll
try to find the post that Bill Haycock made just before he left on how
to rig the bags...

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:50:07 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) (no subject)

Sham,
    Let us in on some weak areas.
                Todd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:54:10 -0700
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) (no subject)

RKJ38 wrote:
>   or STIFFEN
> critical elements and/or attachments along the path.  We'll have to look at
> the bike.  I have had some conversations with our NVH guru, he tells me it's
> probably hopeless without adding significant weight.  We were discussing how
> much stiffer we'd need to make the bars and or mirrors to clear things up...we
> did a little rule of thumb math and decided we'd have to make the bars about 5
> times stiffer to help, or the mirrors 4 times stiffer (he recommended a
> "triangulation" bracket to tie the mirror back to the bar).  I didn't pursue
> that.      Bob

I was just reading in a MX mag about oversize aluminum bars being the
rage because of being stiffer and stronger. I wonder if that would
help...

KLS

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:53:27 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) Re: San Diego and fun bike center

Jim,

    All you guys are 3000 miles from me! It is NOT a small world.

                    Riding alone

                        Todd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:56:38 -0700
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Caution

Robert Morgan wrote:
>
> I was talking with Mike Walburn at Dual Star the other day about a center
> stand and other stuff (nice guy), and he said Dual Star was working on a
> heavy duty rear brake master bracket.  His phone number in Washington state
> is 425 776-7433.  He may have E mail but I don't know it.
> peace  Morgan

Mike is fun to talk with when he has a few minutes...he also told me
they were going to put together their own bash plate (actually a bunch
of tubes so that the mud and crud couldn't have a place to gather). He
told me to expect a center stand in late April...is that what you heard?

Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:55:24 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) Caution

Jim,
    Tips like the one about the back brake res are worth their weight in
gold! Thanks
                Todd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:01:10 -0700
From: Kurt Simpson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (klr650) Dry Bag Mounting...

Tim, here is what Bill Haycock wrote me before leaving for dark and
mysterious continents:

> On the dry bag mounting:
>
> There is a bag designed for the right and left side - the left side bag is the one with the long strap on the upper left.
>
> first, position the bags so that the height is even with the top of the
> seat, don't want them mounted lower then the seat height.
>
> Adjust the velcro so the bags sit right
>
> on the left bag you take the long strap and wrap it around under the top
> rack (above the tail light section) and connect it to the connector on
> the top of the right bag. Pull it snug!
>
> Go to the lower strap on each bag (the strap on the lower front of the
> bag) take the strap and feed it through the opening in the passenger
> foot peg mount - snug them up and you are done.
>
> To recap:  you have three straps to deal with: one that goes from the
> top of the left bag, around the fender above the stop light and connects
> to the top of the right bag.
>
> you have two front straps (one on each bag) that connect to the
> passengers foot peg mount.
>
> The bags should be adjusted with the velcro straps to sit even with the
> top of your seat.
>
> On the Pannier bags:
>
> I have the larger ones and they fit fine but if you can carry what you
> want with the smaller bags then that is fine too!  The larger bags do
> restrict your legs somewhat if you are over 5'10"
>
> Just mount them over the tank and get the height up toward the top of
> the tank, don't want them way down low - mine sit about 1/3 of the way
> down from even with the tank top.
>
> On the bungii cords, I bring the rear one down and hook it to my skid
> plate, the front cord is pulled around the front and connected to the
> center frame plate - not really critical where you attach them as long
> as you have them so the bags are kept in close to the bike.
>
> Bill

------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V1 #15
***************************