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From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum proofers needed Date: 01 Jun 2003 15:00:52 -0600 Chris, My wife and I will be in California for a few days starting on the 5th, but include us on the list of proofreaders and we'll go over as much of it as we can. Thanks, Quinn ps - I'll send you the cover sheets before we leave town. ----- Original Message ----- <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 1:39 PM | The spring 2003 issue of Irreantum will be ready for proofreading next week. | | If you would like to volunteer to read a PDF file for typos and errors, | please contact me directly. | | The file will likely be sent out on June 4, with a one-week turnaround time. | | Remember, this volunteer service is resume-able proofing experience. If you | need references, the AML will vouch for proofing work well done. | | Chris Bigelow | chris.bigelow@unicitynetwork.com | -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3345C.DFC3E9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, everyone. Guest editor Annette Lyon has turned in everything on the romance theme, and I'm also including a Linda Poulson Adams interview and novel excerpt, as well as a review of her novel by Jeffrey Needle. Also, I have received the Selected Recent Releases from Andrew Hall. That puts us at 50,000 words so far for the issue, leaving about another 20,000 we could fill up. Travis already told me about three essays he's sending. I believe Quinn is gearing up to launch his fiction program for the autumn issue, not this one. D. Mike, anything on film? (By the way, are we still firm for a film-themed issue this winter, deadline Dec. 15?) Jana, I'm sure you have some reviews coming. Let's double-check we don't duplicate any from the spring issue. Marny isn't including a spec-fiction story this time but will do AML-List Highlights. Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? I don't expect to have much if any Mormon Literary Scene, unless lots of news comes up during the next month or two. What is the current status, all? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3345C.DFC3E9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Hello, everyone. Guest editor Annette Lyon has turned = in everything on the romance theme, and I'm also including a Linda = Poulson Adams interview and novel excerpt, as well as a review of her = novel by Jeffrey Needle. Also, I have received the Selected Recent = Releases from Andrew Hall. That puts us at 50,000 words so far = for the issue, leaving about another 20,000 we could fill up. Travis already told me about three = essays he's sending. I believe Quinn is gearing up to = launch his fiction program for the autumn issue, not this one. D. Mike, anything on film? (By the = way, are we still firm for a film-themed issue this winter, deadline = Dec. 15?) Jana, I'm sure you have some reviews = coming. Let's double-check we don't duplicate any from the spring = issue. Marny isn't including a spec-fiction = story this time but will do AML-List Highlights. Harlow, any chance we could get the = poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? I don't expect to have much if any = Mormon Literary Scene, unless lots of news comes up during the next = month or two. What is the current status, = all? </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3345C.DFC3E9E0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Current word count Date: 18 Jun 2003 13:57:58 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C335D3.EA928BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Travis has turned in two essays, and the issue's word count is now up to 60,000, leaving a remaining margin of only about 10,000 more words or so. With another essay from Travis, reviews from Jana, and AML-List Highlights from Marny, we will have a full issue. Is there anything I'm forgetting? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C335D3.EA928BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Current word count</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Travis has turned in two essays, and = the issue's word count is now up to 60,000, leaving a remaining margin = of only about 10,000 more words or so. With another essay from Travis, = reviews from Jana, and AML-List Highlights from Marny, we will have a = full issue. Is there anything I'm = forgetting? </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C335D3.EA928BB0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana" <remyj@uci.edu> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Current word count Date: 18 Jun 2003 13:23:00 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3359C.BD6DDD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Current word countI'll have my reviews over by the weekend. I think = I'll have 4 or 5. --Jana ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: [irr-ed] Current word count Travis has turned in two essays, and the issue's word count is now up = to 60,000, leaving a remaining margin of only about 10,000 more words or = so. With another essay from Travis, reviews from Jana, and AML-List = Highlights from Marny, we will have a full issue.=20 Is there anything I'm forgetting?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3359C.BD6DDD10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Current word count</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>I'll have my reviews over by the = weekend. I=20 think I'll have 4 or 5.</DIV> <DIV>--Jana</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 = 12:57=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [irr-ed] Current word=20 count</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> Travis has turned in two essays, and = the issue's=20 word count is now up to 60,000, leaving a remaining margin of only = about=20 10,000 more words or so. With another essay from Travis, reviews = from Jana,=20 and AML-List Highlights from Marny, we will have a full issue. = Is there anything I'm = forgetting?=20 </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3359C.BD6DDD10-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harlow S Clark <harlowclark@juno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 19 Jun 2003 22:49:30 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_6dd9.525f.0ceb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at. My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions? Harlow ----__JNP_000_6dd9.525f.0ceb Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <DIV>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@= UnicityNetwork.com</A>>=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: = 10px"> Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry= now,=20 ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all?=20 </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm working on the poetry just now.</DIV> <DIV>I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have= one=20 from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of = excerpts=20 from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from = Peter=20 Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should = not=20 be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt = is a=20 recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding = sections in=20 Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, = and=20 hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and = something=20 from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other = B of=20 M related submissions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harlow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: = 10px"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_6dd9.525f.0ceb-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 20 Jun 2003 09:10:38 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3373E.1B6ACCF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take? -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow < Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com <mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> > writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at. My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions? Harlow ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3373E.1B6ACCF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take?</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<A href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com</A>> writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm working on the poetry just now.</DIV> <DIV>I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harlow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3373E.1B6ACCF0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 20 Jun 2003 12:29:45 -0600 --============_-1155988252==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I have Brian's story. It was only four pages in _Leading Edge_, so it's on the short side. Marny At 9:10 AM -0600 6/20/03, Christopher Bigelow wrote: >The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. > >I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, >with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the >three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the >issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think >your BoM package would take? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] >Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM >To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? > >On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow ><<mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com>Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork >.com> writes: > >Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio >notes in place? > >What is the current status, all? > >I'm working on the poetry just now. >I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I >have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm >looking at. > >My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of >excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a >section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why >the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be >the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a >Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael >Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, >and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, >and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as >epic. > >It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got >other B of M related submissions? > >Harlow > > > > --============_-1155988252==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have Brian's story. It was only four pages in _Leading Edge_, so it's on the short side. Marny At 9:10 AM -0600 6/20/03, Christopher Bigelow wrote: <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param= >The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. =20 I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take? </color></fontfamily><paraindent><param>right,left</param>-----Original Message----- <bold>From:</bold> Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] <bold>Sent:</bold> Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM <bold>To:</bold> irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com <bold>Subject:</bold> Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<<<mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com>Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com= > writes: </paraindent><paraindent><param>right,right,left,left</param><fontfamily><pa= ram>Arial</param>Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? </fontfamily></paraindent><paraindent><param>right,left</param>I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at. =20 My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. =20 It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions? =20 Harlow =20 =20 </paraindent><paraindent><param>right,right,left,left</param>=20 </paraindent></excerpt> --============_-1155988252==_ma============-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 20 Jun 2003 14:16:41 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C33736.92596680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Summer material?I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I = will probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays = that I may work with authors on to edit and revise. =20 I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the Past" = section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like "Literary = Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or = "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim and = Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to suggestions = here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really = old. You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years = or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and = forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be fascinating = to resurrect some older, classical pieces. I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature and = Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How *do* = I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or = other pub? Travis ************************************ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with = excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three = winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is = open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM = package would take? -----Original Message----- From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow = <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with = bio notes in place?=20 What is the current status, all?=20 I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I = have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking = at. My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of = excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a = section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the = Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis = for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. = I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad = and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard = Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard = Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got = other B of M related submissions? Harlow ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C33736.92596680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall = yet. I will=20 probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that = I may=20 work with authors on to edit and revise. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional = "Blast from=20 the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like = "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the = Day,"=20 or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim = and=20 Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to = suggestions=20 here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really = old. =20 You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years or = older?) or=20 something from a book or essay that is now defunct and forgotten. = This=20 requires research, but I think it could be fascinating to resurrect some = older,=20 classical pieces.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society = magazines,=20 Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible=20 reprints. How *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, = from a mag=20 or book, or other pub?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************************************</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 = 8:10 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer=20 material?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The=20 autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM=20 stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm=20 planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with = excerpts=20 from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of = the=20 Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far = as I=20 recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would=20 take?</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>-----Original Message----- From: Harlow S Clark=20 [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, = 2003 11:50=20 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: = Re:=20 [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNet= work.com</A>>=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 = 2px solid"> Harlow, any chance we could get the = poetry now,=20 ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, = all?=20 </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm working on the poetry just now.</DIV> <DIV>I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. = I have=20 one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking = at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group = of=20 excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a = section=20 from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book = of=20 Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for = literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. = I'm=20 looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad = and R.=20 Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard = Thurman's=20 essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth = Rust=20 about the Book of Mormon as epic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got = other B=20 of M related submissions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harlow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 = 2px solid"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C33736.92596680-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 22 Jun 2003 21:52:03 -0700 Just a thought on some special Irreantum issues next year. I'd like to do an issue on creative/literary nonfiction (but am not ready this year). It would be interesting to still do an all-film issue, perhaps after this year's round of film. Also, Mormon horror! Ooh, scary (perhaps a summer 2004 issue to come out before Halloween, though we could do it whenever). A translation issue, where we take works from many different languages/cultures and find folks to translate them. It would take some work, but in a year or two from now it could be put together. Perhaps a combined issue with drama and film, with interviews, reviews, one act plays, parts of screenplays, etc. We haven't seen sci-fi/fantasy for a couple years. Spiritual memoir anybody? (I might like to head something like that.) Mormon folklore is another, we could get a guest editor. How about historical or missionary fiction? Oh, and if you haven't perused the new Mormon Literature Database, do: http://MormonLit.lib.byu.edu It's awesome. Gideon wants to know of any quirks as they are constantly ironing those out. And, if you're published, be sure to submit your bib and bio info. Travis Manning -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 23 Jun 2003 16:55:00 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DA.79F048B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. However, I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the copyright is clear. I'm not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you know if I think of any. "Voices from the Dust"? One definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years ago. That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where there are probably some experts on the question. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:17 PM I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may work with authors on to edit and revise. I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really old. You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces. I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or other pub? Travis ************************************ ----- Original Message ----- 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com' Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take? -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow < Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com <mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> > writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at. My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions? Harlow ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DA.79F048B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>I like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. However, I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the copyright is clear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you know if I think of any. "Voices from the Dust"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where there are probably some experts on the question.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:17 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV>I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may work with authors on to edit and revise. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really old. You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or other pub?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************************************</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take?</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<A href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com</A>> writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm working on the poetry just now.</DIV> <DIV>I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harlow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DA.79F048B0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 23 Jun 2003 17:05:06 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DB.E2FE6610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Responding to Travis's wonderful themed-issue ideas: <<< Just a thought on some special Irreantum issues next year. I'd like to do an issue on creative/literary nonfiction (but am not ready this year). >>> Sounds great. You might talk to Gideon Burton on this, as he has discussed a similar idea and might like to help compile and edit the issue. How does summer 2004 sound? (Deadline June 15, 2004.) <<< It would be interesting to still do an all-film issue, perhaps after this year's round of film. >>> Unless I hear otherwise, I'm counting on this for the winter 2003-04 issue (deadline Dec. 15, 2003). <<< Also, Mormon horror! Ooh, scary (perhaps a summer 2004 issue to come out before Halloween, though we could do it whenever). >>> Definitely sounds very intriguing. Is there enough in this area for a whole issue? (I know it's been discussed lately on AML-List, but I admit I didn't follow it closely.) <<< A translation issue, where we take works from many different languages/cultures and find folks to translate them. It would take some work, but in a year or two from now it could be put together. >>> Sounds like a noble idea, but I don't have any idea of what pieces we'd translate and how the logistics would work. <<< Perhaps a combined issue with drama and film, with interviews, reviews, one act plays, parts of screenplays, etc. >>> I think drama is a big enough area for its own special issue, actually. I was disappointed we didn't find a drama editor. But maybe we can get someone to spearhead a special issue. I'd say this is a top priority, maybe for the winter 2004-05 issue (deadline Dec. 15, 2004.) <<< We haven't seen sci-fi/fantasy for a couple years. >>> <<< Spiritual memoir anybody? (I might like to head something like that.) >>> Isn't this a subset of creative/literary nonfiction? Or would it need its own issue? <<< Mormon folklore is another, we could get a guest editor. >>> This one has lots of potential, if we could get the right editor. <<< How about historical or missionary fiction? >>> Yeah, both are good ideas. I'd expand the missionary one to include nonfiction memoir. Thanks, Travis! I'm keeping this list for future reference. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DB.E2FE6610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] special issues</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Responding to Travis's wonderful themed-issue = ideas: <<< Just a thought on some special Irreantum issues next = year. I'd like to do an issue on creative/literary nonfiction (but am not = ready this year). >>> Sounds great. You might talk to Gideon Burton on = this, as he has discussed a similar idea and might like to help compile = and edit the issue. How does summer 2004 sound? (Deadline June 15, = 2004.) <<< It would be interesting to still do an all-film = issue, perhaps after this year's round of film. >>> Unless I hear otherwise, I'm counting on this for the = winter 2003-04 issue (deadline Dec. 15, 2003). <<< Also, Mormon horror! Ooh, scary (perhaps a = summer 2004 issue to come out before Halloween, though we = could do it whenever). >>> Definitely sounds very intriguing. Is there enough in = this area for a whole issue? (I know it's been discussed lately on = AML-List, but I admit I didn't follow it closely.) <<< A translation issue, where we take works from many = different languages/cultures and find folks to translate = them. It would take some work, but in a year or two from now it could be put = together. >>> Sounds like a noble idea, but I don't have any idea = of what pieces we'd translate and how the logistics would work. <<< Perhaps a combined issue with drama and film, with = interviews, reviews, one act plays, parts of screenplays, etc. >>> I think drama is a big enough area for its own = special issue, actually. I was disappointed we didn't find a drama = editor. But maybe we can get someone to spearhead a special issue. I'd = say this is a top priority, maybe for the winter 2004-05 issue = (deadline Dec. 15, 2004.) <<< We haven't seen sci-fi/fantasy for a couple years. >>> <<< Spiritual memoir anybody? (I might like to head = something like that.) >>> Isn't this a subset of creative/literary nonfiction? = Or would it need its own issue? <<< Mormon folklore is another, we could get a guest = editor. >>> This one has lots of potential, if we could get the = right editor. <<< How about historical or missionary fiction? >>> Yeah, both are good ideas. I'd expand the missionary = one to include nonfiction memoir. Thanks, Travis! I'm keeping this list for future = reference. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DB.E2FE6610-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 23 Jun 2003 17:08:48 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DC.67214D90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Looks like I forgot to comment on one: <<< We haven't seen sci-fi/fantasy for a couple years. >>> Not sure I feel a compelling need to do this again before several of the others, but I'd be open to campaigning. And I wanted to add that I'd love to revisit Mormon humor writing again soon. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DC.67214D90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] special issues</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Looks like I forgot to comment on one: <<< We haven't seen sci-fi/fantasy for a couple years. >>> Not sure I feel a compelling need to do this again before several of the others, but I'd be open to campaigning. And I wanted to add that I'd love to revisit Mormon humor writing again soon. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339DC.67214D90-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 23 Jun 2003 16:51:51 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01C339A7.BE81B8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Summer material?I'd give my right arm for all old issues of _AML = Annual_! =20 Though Gideon & Co. may be cataloguing those on the new Mormon Lit = Database, so I'll doublecheck, and if I find something interesting, = perhaps have someone send me a copy. Maybe Lavina Anderson has all the = old issues on disk or something.... Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 3:55 PM Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? I like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. = However, I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making = sure the copyright is clear. I'm not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you = know if I think of any. "Voices from the Dust"? One definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML = Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years ago. That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where there are = probably some experts on the question. -----Original Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:17 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will probably = submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may = work with authors on to edit and revise. =20 I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the = Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like = "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the = Day," or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or = "Urim and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to = suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that = is really old. You know, something that is either not under copyright = (52 years or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now = defunct and forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be = fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces. I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature = and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How = *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or = other pub? Travis ************************************ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, = with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three = winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is = open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM = package would take? -----Original Message----- From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow = <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go = with bio notes in place?=20 What is the current status, all?=20 I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. = I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm = looking at. My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group = of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a = section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the = Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis = for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. = I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad = and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard = Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard = Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got = other B of M related submissions? Harlow ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01C339A7.BE81B8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>I'd give my right arm for all old issues of _AML=20 Annual_! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though Gideon & Co. may be cataloguing those on = the new=20 Mormon Lit Database, so I'll doublecheck, and if I find something = interesting,=20 perhaps have someone send me a copy. Maybe Lavina Anderson has all = the old=20 issues on disk or something....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 = 3:55 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer=20 material?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I=20 like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. = However, I=20 don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the = copyright=20 is clear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm=20 not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you know = if I=20 think of any. "Voices from the Dust"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One=20 definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML = Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years = ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where = there are=20 probably some experts on the question.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message----- From: Travis K. = Manning=20 [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, = 2003 3:17=20 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: = Re:=20 [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV>I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will = probably=20 submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I = may work=20 with authors on to edit and revise. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from = the Past"=20 section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like = "Literary=20 Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," = or=20 "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim = and=20 Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to = suggestions=20 here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really = old. You know, something that is either not under copyright = (52 years=20 or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and = forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be = fascinating=20 to resurrect some older, classical pieces.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, = Literature and=20 Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible = reprints. How=20 *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or = book, or=20 other pub?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************************************</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original = Message -----=20 </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><FONT=20 size=3D3>From: <A = title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher=20 Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: = <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'"><FONT=20 size=3D3>'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: = Friday, June 20,=20 2003 8:10 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: = [irr-ed]=20 Summer material?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The=20 autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM=20 stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm=20 planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with = excerpts=20 from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners = of the=20 Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as = far as I=20 recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would=20 take?</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message----- From: Harlow = S Clark=20 [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, = 2003=20 11:50 PM To:=20 irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] = Summer=20 material? </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow = <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNet= work.com</A>>=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: = #000000 2px solid"> Harlow, any chance we could get the = poetry now,=20 ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all?=20 </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm working on the poetry just now.</DIV> <DIV>I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his = poems. I=20 have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm = looking=20 at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a = group of=20 excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I = have a=20 section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about = why the=20 Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be = the basis=20 for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom = Poem.=20 I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The = Nephiad=20 and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print = Richard=20 Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from = Richard=20 Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone = got=20 other B of M related submissions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harlow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: = #000000 2px solid"> = </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ= UOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01C339A7.BE81B8C0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 23 Jun 2003 17:50:47 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339E2.447CAF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a good chunk of the annuals from the 90s, but probably the only place to find them all is the BYU library. I doubt Lavina or anyone has them all on disk. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 5:52 PM I'd give my right arm for all old issues of _AML Annual_! Though Gideon & Co. may be cataloguing those on the new Mormon Lit Database, so I'll doublecheck, and if I find something interesting, perhaps have someone send me a copy. Maybe Lavina Anderson has all the old issues on disk or something.... Travis ----- Original Message ----- <mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 3:55 PM I like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. However, I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the copyright is clear. I'm not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you know if I think of any. "Voices from the Dust"? One definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years ago. That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where there are probably some experts on the question. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:17 PM I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may work with authors on to edit and revise. I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really old. You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces. I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or other pub? Travis ************************************ ----- Original Message ----- 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com' Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take? -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow < Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com <mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> > writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at. My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic. It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions? Harlow ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339E2.447CAF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Summer material?</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>I have a good chunk of the annuals from the 90s, but probably the only place to find them all is the BYU library. I doubt Lavina or anyone has them all on disk.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 5:52 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV>I'd give my right arm for all old issues of _AML Annual_! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though Gideon & Co. may be cataloguing those on the new Mormon Lit Database, so I'll doublecheck, and if I find something interesting, perhaps have someone send me a copy. Maybe Lavina Anderson has all the old issues on disk or something....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 3:55 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. However, I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the copyright is clear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you know if I think of any. "Voices from the Dust"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where there are probably some experts on the question.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:17 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV>I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may work with authors on to edit and revise. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really old. You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or other pub?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************************************</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would take?</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Summer material? </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<A href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com</A>> writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in place? What is the current status, all? </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm working on the poetry just now.</DIV> <DIV>I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as epic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B of M related submissions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harlow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C339E2.447CAF40-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harlow S Clark <harlowclark@juno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] LDSBA convention passes Date: 23 Jun 2003 23:10:23 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_05df.47c5.3e6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harlow Clark 955 S. 500 E. Pleasant Grove, UT 84062 On Tue, 27 May 2003 17:13:53 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> writes: If you want to attend this year's LDS Booksellers convention, the AML can provide you with a complimentary pass IF you are a current dues-paying member or board/staff member of the AML. If you would like a pass, e-mail me directly with your street mailing address. For more info on the convention, including dates, visit http://www.ldsba.com/convention.html. Chris Bigelow ----__JNP_000_05df.47c5.3e6e Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>LDSBA convention passes</TITLE> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Harlow Clark</DIV> <DIV>955 S. 500 E.</DIV> <DIV>Pleasant Grove, UT 84062</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Tue, 27 May 2003 17:13:53 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@= UnicityNetwork.com</A>>=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: = 10px"> If you want to attend this year's LDS = Booksellers=20 convention, the AML can provide you with a complimentary pass IF you are = a=20 current dues-paying member or board/staff member of the AML. If you would like a pass, e-mail me = directly with=20 your street mailing address. For more info on the convention, including= dates,=20 visit <A href=3D"http://www.ldsba.com/convention.html"=20 target=3D_blank>http://www.ldsba.com/convention.html</A>. Chris Bigelow <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_05df.47c5.3e6e-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 23 Jun 2003 23:40:55 -0600 My two cents on Travis's themed-issue ideas and Chris's response... | It would be interesting to still do an all-film issue, perhaps after this | year's round of film. | >>> | | Unless I hear otherwise, I'm counting on this for the winter 2003-04 issue | (deadline Dec. 15, 2003). Would this include printing original screenplays that have yet to be filmed? Several have been submitted to the Irreantum fiction contest, and a couple have been pretty decent. D. Michael, I'm assuming you're taking the lead on the film issue -- if you're interested in looking at original screenplays as they come in (I think they're all being routed to the fiction department right now), let me know. | A translation issue, where we take works from many different | languages/cultures and find folks to translate them. It would take some | work, but in a year or two from now it could be put together. I *really* like this idea, and I think there is enough bilingual talent among the AML membership that translators could be recruited to fill specific needs. If you like this idea, Chris, why not send out a trial balloon on AML-List and ask if people are aware of non-English LDS writers? I know there was a Brazilian guy on the list for a while, but he kind of vanished (or perhaps left after one too many people commented on his poor English). | Perhaps a combined issue with drama and film, with interviews, reviews, one | act plays, | parts of screenplays, etc. | >>> | | I think drama is a big enough area for its own special issue, actually. I | was disappointed we didn't find a drama editor. But maybe we can get someone | to spearhead a special issue. I'd say this is a top priority, maybe for the | winter 2004-05 issue (deadline Dec. 15, 2004.) Again, all the drama is coming to the fiction department right now, and I really feel like there's enough of it out there to warrant a separate department and/or special issue. Perhaps Eric Samuelson or Thom Duncan (or any number of other AML members) would be interested in recruiting original plays and/or guest editing. | <<< | Spiritual memoir anybody? (I might like to head something like | that.) | >>> | | Isn't this a subset of creative/literary nonfiction? Or would it need its | own issue? I would vote to combine this with Travis's idea for a literary nonfiction issue. Doesn't AML give an award for best "Devotional Writing" or something like that? (I think Neal A. Maxwell got it a while back, if I'm not mistaken.) To me, this could be nicely combined with a personal essay / creative nonfiction issue. | <<< | Mormon folklore is another, we could get a guest editor. | >>> | | This one has lots of potential, if we could get the right editor. I know a few people who focused on folklore studies in their graduate programs who would jump at the chance to bring Mormon folklore studies to a broader audience. And I'll just add one more suggestion to the possible theme-issue list: Online writing by and about Mormons. There are a lot of writers who maintain websites with original online-only material, and a new crop of LDS writers who have personal weblogs. I've had the idea in the back of my head to put together a presentation about Mormon Bloggers for the AML Conference, and I'd love to see something in Irreantum about the topic. Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: [irr-ed] LDSBA Date: 23 Jun 2003 22:58:00 -0700 Crazy of all crazy timing, I will be in Utah that week! Thanks for the reminder Harlow. Travis Manning 1819 South Grand Blvd. Spokane, WA 99203 On Tue, 27 May 2003 17:13:53 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> writes: If you want to attend this year's LDS Booksellers convention, the AML can provide you with a complimentary pass IF you are a current dues-paying member or board/staff member of the AML. If you would like a pass, e-mail me directly with your street mailing address. For more info on the convention, including dates, visit http://www.ldsba.com/convention.html. Chris Bigelow -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 23 Jun 2003 23:24:26 -0700 I really, really, really like the online idea, Quinn! I haven't explored the idea myself, but my impression is there are all types and sorts of web publishing going on. We could perhaps do an annotated bibliography of Mormon-related websites, and assign each one of us editors a genre or two to tackle. Something to be sure to hype: Gideon presented at the AML conference in February about the new Mormon Lit Database, and he's presenting it as a paper at the 2003 Rocky Mountain Modern Language Association (RMMLA) meeting in Missoula in October. He and Robert Means (BYU's Harold B. Lee Library) might be interested in publishing the article in Irreantum. I suppose there are other venues out there that might publish their paper, but if not we surely could/should/would. It would be nice if other scholars knew about this database, and unless we hype it somewhere else, Irreantum may not be the most influential place. I don't know. Perhaps we should consider recruiting an Irreantum Drama editor. Also, it seems like D. Mike ought to be perusing those screenplays Quinn is getting. I wonder if Eric Snider would do it, or Margaret Young, or Thom Duncan. Eric Samuelson is busy too, but somehow he and Thom and J. Scott Bronson (I don't know how those two guys make a living, and am sad the theater closed down!) but always make time to dialogue on the list. And most every AML event I've gone to in the past seven years, I've seen these guys it seems like. Maybe we ought to advertise on the list, Chris. Unless D. Mike wants to do it. I mean, drama IS one of the four main genres: poetry, fiction, drama and nonfiction. Maybe even someone in New York, someone who contributed to the recent book _Silent Notes Taken, Personal Essays by Mormon New Yorkers_, 2002, New York: Mormon Artists Group Press. Hmm. Travis ***************************************** > And I'll just add one more suggestion to the possible theme-issue list: > Online writing by and about Mormons. There are a lot of writers who maintain > websites with original online-only material, and a new crop of LDS writers > who have personal weblogs. I've had the idea in the back of my head to put > together a presentation about Mormon Bloggers for the AML Conference, and > I'd love to see something in Irreantum about the topic. > > Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:06:37 -0600 Quinn Warnick wrote: > Would this include printing original screenplays that have yet to be filmed? > Several have been submitted to the Irreantum fiction contest, and a couple > have been pretty decent. D. Michael, I'm assuming you're taking the lead on > the film issue -- if you're interested in looking at original screenplays as > they come in (I think they're all being routed to the fiction department > right now), let me know. Screenplays are being routed to the fiction department? How bizarre. I think I should be the one looking at any screenplays being submitted. I don't have any desire to print entire screenplays, but I'd consider excerpts. That's likely to be a rare occurrence, however, unless the quality of unproduced screenplays floating around is several steps above much of what's being filmed in LDS cinema these days. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:08:44 -0600 "Travis K. Manning" wrote: > Perhaps we should consider recruiting an Irreantum Drama editor. > Unless D. Mike wants to do it. You don't want me doing drama. I don't have sufficient expertise in that area. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton <Gideon_Burton@byu.edu> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:20:09 -0600 For an articulate Mormon who has paid attention to the phenomenon of blogging (though less so in a strictly literary sense) contact Stephen Humphrey (stephen@humphrey.net).=20 Gideon O. Burton 3113 JKHB Department of English Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801) 422-3525 Visit Silva Rhetoricae: The Forest of Rhetoric http://rhetoric.byu.edu The Mormon Literature Database http://MormonLit.lib.byu.edu =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-irreantum- > ed@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Travis K. Manning > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:24 AM > To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues >=20 > I really, really, really like the online idea, Quinn! I haven't = explored > the idea myself, but my impression is there are all types and sorts of = web > publishing going on. We could perhaps do an annotated bibliography of > Mormon-related websites, and assign each one of us editors a genre or = two > to > tackle. >=20 > Something to be sure to hype: Gideon presented at the AML conference = in > February about the new Mormon Lit Database, and he's presenting it as = a > paper at the 2003 Rocky Mountain Modern Language Association (RMMLA) > meeting > in Missoula in October. He and Robert Means (BYU's Harold B. Lee = Library) > might be interested in publishing the article in Irreantum. I suppose > there > are other venues out there that might publish their paper, but if not = we > surely could/should/would. It would be nice if other scholars knew = about > this database, and unless we hype it somewhere else, Irreantum may not = be > the most influential place. I don't know. >=20 > Perhaps we should consider recruiting an Irreantum Drama editor. = Also, it > seems like D. Mike ought to be perusing those screenplays Quinn is > getting. > I wonder if Eric Snider would do it, or Margaret Young, or Thom = Duncan. > Eric Samuelson is busy too, but somehow he and Thom and J. Scott = Bronson > (I > don't know how those two guys make a living, and am sad the theater = closed > down!) but always make time to dialogue on the list. And most every = AML > event I've gone to in the past seven years, I've seen these guys it = seems > like. Maybe we ought to advertise on the list, Chris. Unless D. Mike > wants > to do it. I mean, drama IS one of the four main genres: poetry, = fiction, > drama and nonfiction. Maybe even someone in New York, someone who > contributed to the recent book _Silent Notes Taken, Personal Essays by > Mormon New Yorkers_, 2002, New York: Mormon Artists Group Press. = Hmm. >=20 > Travis >=20 > ***************************************** > > And I'll just add one more suggestion to the possible theme-issue = list: > > Online writing by and about Mormons. There are a lot of writers who > maintain > > websites with original online-only material, and a new crop of LDS > writers > > who have personal weblogs. I've had the idea in the back of my head = to > put > > together a presentation about Mormon Bloggers for the AML = Conference, > and > > I'd love to see something in Irreantum about the topic. > > > > Quinn Warnick >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton <Gideon_Burton@byu.edu> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer material? Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:20:09 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C33A3A.32E26D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sadly we have very few old AML Annuals on disk. All of the old AML = annuals have now been indexed completely, and you can browse by year and table = of contents at http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/lit_work.php?w_id=3D4218. Be = sure to check the database, since many of the pieces first published in the AML Annuals have been subsequently published elsewhere. Years ago I had = many years of the annual digitized in an effort to put them all up on the = web, but aborted the effort due to how much work it was, even though I got permissions from most authors. Contact me if you want to consult those electronic files. =20 Gideon O. Burton 3113 JKHB Department of English Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801) 422-3525 Visit Silva Rhetoricae: The Forest of Rhetoric http://rhetoric.byu.edu <http://rhetoric.byu.edu/>=20 The Mormon Literature Database http://MormonLit.lib.byu.edu <http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/>=20 =20 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Travis K. Manning Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 5:52 PM =20 I'd give my right arm for all old issues of _AML Annual_! =20 =20 Though Gideon & Co. may be cataloguing those on the new Mormon Lit = Database, so I'll doublecheck, and if I find something interesting, perhaps have someone send me a copy. Maybe Lavina Anderson has all the old issues on disk or something.... =20 Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 3:55 PM =20 I like this idea of running some carefully selected old pieces. However, = I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the copyright is clear. =20 I'm not sure you've got the right dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you = know if I think of any. "Voices from the Dust"? =20 One definite source for article reprints should definitely be old AML Annuals. That was an idea we talked about some years ago. =20 That's probably a good question to take to AML-List, where there are probably some experts on the question. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:17 PM I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will probably = submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may work with authors on to edit and revise. =20 =20 I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast from the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something like "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or "Seminal Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm open to suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that is really = old. You know, something that is either not under copyright (52 years or = older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct and forgotten. = This requires research, but I think it could be fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces. =20 I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. How *do* = I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or other = pub? =20 Travis =20 ************************************ ----- Original Message -----=20 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 AM =20 The autumn issue might indeed be a good one for this BoM stuff. =20 I'm planning cover interviews with Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning to run the three = winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the issue is open, as = far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM package would = take? -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:50 PM On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> writes: Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio = notes in place?=20 What is the current status, all?=20 I'm working on the poetry just now. I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. I have = one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking at. =20 My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group of = excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of = Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for = literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's = essay about A Certain Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust = about the Book of Mormon as epic. =20 It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got other B = of M related submissions? =20 Harlow =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C33A3A.32E26D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <title>Summer material?</title> <style>  </style> </head> <body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> Sadly we have very few old AML = Annuals on disk. All of the old AML annuals have now been indexed completely, and = you can browse by year and table of contents at <a href=3D"http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/lit_work.php?w_id=3D4218">http://mor= monlit.lib.byu.edu/lit_work.php?w_id=3D4218</a>. Be sure to check the database, since many of the pieces first = published in the AML Annuals have been subsequently published elsewhere. = Years ago I had many years of the annual digitized in an effort to put them all up = on the web, but aborted the effort due to how much work it was, even though I = got permissions from most authors. Contact me if you want to consult those electronic files. <div> <div> Gideon O. Burton 3113 JKHB Department of English Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801) 422-3525 Visit Silva Rhetoricae: The Forest of Rhetoric <a = href=3D"http://rhetoric.byu.edu/">http://rhetoric.byu.edu</a> The Mormon Literature Database <a href=3D"http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/">http://MormonLit.lib.byu.edu</a></= span> </div> </div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in = 0in 4.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Travis K. Manning Sent: Monday, June 23, = 2003 5:52 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] = Summer material? <div> I'd give my right arm for all old issues of _AML Annual_! = </div> <div> </div> <div> Though Gideon & Co. may be cataloguing those on the new = Mormon Lit Database, so I'll doublecheck, and if I find something interesting, = perhaps have someone send me a copy. Maybe Lavina Anderson has all the old = issues on disk or something.... </div> <div> </div> <div> Travis </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'= > <div> ----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style=3D'font-color:black'> From:</span= > <a href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com" title=3D"Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</a> = </div> <div> To: <a href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'" title=3D"irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.co= m'</a> </div> <div> Sent: Monday, = June 23, 2003 3:55 PM </div> <div> Subject: RE: = [irr-ed] Summer material? </div> <div> </div> <div> I like this idea of running = some carefully selected old pieces. However, I don't know how you'd go about getting permission or making sure the copyright is clear. </div> <div> </div> <div> I'm not sure you've got the right = dept. title yet. . . . I'll let you know if I think of any. "Voices from = the Dust"? </div> <div> </div> <div> One definite source for article = reprints should definitely be old AML Annuals. That was an idea we talked = about some years ago. </div> <div> </div> <div> That's probably a good question to = take to AML-List, where there are probably some experts on the = question. </div> <blockquote = style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original = Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, = 2003 3:17 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] = Summer material? <div> I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing for Fall yet. I will = probably submit one of my own, and I have a short backlog of essays that I may = work with authors on to edit and revise. </div> <div> </div> <div> I'm thinking seriously about doing an occasional "Blast = from the Past" section (though I'm looking for a better title, something = like "Literary Roots," or "Time Machine," or "In = Times Past," or "Back in the Day," or "Seminal = Texts," or "Revisitation," or "Moroni's Corner," or "Urim = and Thumim," or "Ancient of Days," or--obviously I'm = open to suggestions here)--that is, an essay, memoir, chapter from a book that = is really old. You know, something that is either not under copyright = (52 years or older?) or something from a book or essay that is now defunct = and forgotten. This requires research, but I think it could be = fascinating to resurrect some older, classical pieces. </div> <div> </div> <div> I'm thinking of searching old Relief Society magazines, = Literature and Belief, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., etc. for possible reprints. = How *do* I go about getting permission for a reprint, from a mag or book, or = other pub? </div> <div> </div> <div> Travis </div> <div> </div> <div> ************************************ </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'= > <div> ----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style=3D'font-color:black'> From:</span= > <a href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com" title=3D"Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</a> </div> <div> To: <a href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'" title=3D"irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</a>= </div> <div> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:10 = AM </div> <div> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Summer = material? </div> <div> </div> <div> The autumn issue might indeed be a = good one for this BoM stuff. </div> <div> </div> <div> I'm planning cover interviews with = Jack Harrell and John Fulton, with excerpts from their novels, and Quinn is planning = to run the three winners of the Irreantum fiction contest. Other than that, the = issue is open, as far as I recall. How many words total do you think your BoM = package would take? </div> <blockquote = style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original = Message----- From: Harlow S Clark [mailto:harlowclark@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 19, = 2003 11:50 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] = Summer material? <div> <div> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:19 -0600 Christopher Bigelow <<a href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNet= work.com</a>> writes: </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt; margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> Harlow, any chance we could get the poetry now, ready to go with bio notes in = place? What is the current status, all? </blockquote> I'm working on the poetry just now. </div> <div> I'm doing a memoriam for Marden Clark with 2 or 3 of his poems. = I have one from Patricia Gunter Karamsines and several others I'm looking = at. </div> <div> </div> <div> My big project, though, probably for the next issue is a group = of excerpts from Book of Mormon epics, and essays about them. I have a = section from Peter Sorensen's epic, and an essay he wrote about why the Book of = Mormon should not be read as literature, but should be the basis for = literature. His excerpt is a recasting of Moroni as a Wisdom Poem. I'm looking for = corresponding sections in Michael Collings' The Nephiad and R. Paul Cracroft's A = Certain Testimony, and hope to print Richard Thurman's essay about A Certain = Testimony, and something from Richard Dilworth Rust about the Book of Mormon as = epic. </div> <div> </div> <div> It could be a tremendous resource to Mo-lit classes. Anyone got = other B of M related submissions? </div> <div> </div> <div> Harlow </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt; margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C33A3A.32E26D80-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 12:24:45 -0400 D. Michael Martindale wrote: | Screenplays are being routed to the fiction department? How bizarre. | | I think I should be the one looking at any screenplays being submitted. | I don't have any desire to print entire screenplays, but I'd consider | excerpts. That's likely to be a rare occurrence, however, unless the | quality of unproduced screenplays floating around is several steps above | much of what's being filmed in LDS cinema these days. I haven't received a lot of screenplays, but two or three were submitted to the fiction contest, mainly because the contest announcement invited plays to be submitted. One could argue that since screenplays are one step away from plays, they would also be included in the contest. Because they've been submitted, we're judging them as part of the fiction contest for this go-around, but in the future, I'd be happy to reroute anything that's obviously a screenplay to you. This, of course, still leaves open the question of whether or not plays should be grouped with fiction in the magazine. Part of me feels like I'm not really qualified to judge the merit of plays. On the other hand, is there enough good drama out there to sustain a separate department? From what I've seen so far, the answer is no. But a good drama editor may be able to solicit material that I would never be aware of. I'm happy to give up the drama and screenplays if it means they'll receive better treatment at the hands of another section editor. At the same time, I'm happy to keep doing what I've been doing. I will defer to our esteemed editor on this one... Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:40:26 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A6F.50888150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Unless and until we think there are enough screenplays to warrant a separate screenplay contest, we'll continue to invite screenplay submissions in the annual fiction contest, which means those entries will initially all go to the fiction editor, who judges the contest. (I suppose I could be persuaded that in the future the "fiction" contest should consider only short story and novel excerpt, but I've wanted to include screenplays and play scripts as well, since they're part of Irreantum's focus. Quinn, what do you say? Can they all be judged together as stories, or not?) Now, if the fiction person wants to get help judging any screenplay entries, that's fine. And if he or she wants to pass on any screenplays to the film editor after the contest is over, that's fine too. So Quinn, when you're done with the contest, go ahead and forward D. Mike any screenplays you think he might want to consider. If I happen to ever receive a screenplay submission outside of the contest, which hasn't happened yet, I will forward it straight to D. Mike, not Quinn. Correct? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:07 AM Quinn Warnick wrote: > Would this include printing original screenplays that have yet to be filmed? > Several have been submitted to the Irreantum fiction contest, and a couple > have been pretty decent. D. Michael, I'm assuming you're taking the lead on > the film issue -- if you're interested in looking at original screenplays as > they come in (I think they're all being routed to the fiction department > right now), let me know. Screenplays are being routed to the fiction department? How bizarre. I think I should be the one looking at any screenplays being submitted. I don't have any desire to print entire screenplays, but I'd consider excerpts. That's likely to be a rare occurrence, however, unless the quality of unproduced screenplays floating around is several steps above much of what's being filmed in LDS cinema these days. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A6F.50888150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] special issues</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Unless and until we think there are enough = screenplays to warrant a separate screenplay contest, we'll continue to = invite screenplay submissions in the annual fiction contest, which = means those entries will initially all go to the fiction editor, who = judges the contest. (I suppose I could be persuaded that in the future = the "fiction" contest should consider only short story and = novel excerpt, but I've wanted to include screenplays and play scripts = as well, since they're part of Irreantum's focus. Quinn, what do you = say? Can they all be judged together as stories, or not?) Now, if the fiction person wants to get help judging = any screenplay entries, that's fine. And if he or she wants to pass on = any screenplays to the film editor after the contest is over, that's = fine too. So Quinn, when you're done with the contest, go ahead and = forward D. Mike any screenplays you think he might want to = consider. If I happen to ever receive a screenplay submission = outside of the contest, which hasn't happened yet, I will forward it = straight to D. Mike, not Quinn. Correct? -----Original Message----- From: D. Michael Martindale [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:dmichael@wwno.com">mailto:dmichael@wwno.com</A>] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:07 AM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Quinn Warnick wrote: > Would this include printing original screenplays = that have yet to be filmed? > Several have been submitted to the Irreantum = fiction contest, and a couple > have been pretty decent. D. Michael, I'm = assuming you're taking the lead on > the film issue -- if you're interested in = looking at original screenplays as > they come in (I think they're all being routed = to the fiction department > right now), let me know. Screenplays are being routed to the fiction = department? How bizarre. I think I should be the one looking at any = screenplays being submitted. I don't have any desire to print entire screenplays, = but I'd consider excerpts. That's likely to be a rare occurrence, = however, unless the quality of unproduced screenplays floating around is = several steps above much of what's being filmed in LDS cinema these = days. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers = group, at <A HREF=3D"http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths</A> Sponsored by Worlds Without Number <A HREF=3D"http://www.wwno.com" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.wwno.com</A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A6F.50888150-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:19:22 -0700 The age old debate. If we have no editor assigned to "grow the genre" of drama chances are little will happen. Drama could include plays, musicals, reader's theater, etc. A Drama editor could work to publish older plays, or portions of them, go see lots of Mormon plays, and rub shoulders with those doing plays (so it's probably a Wasatch-fronter connection here). It would be nice to have someone on staff who was an expert. They could plan on putting something in every other issue, or every three issues or something. There are plays out there by and/or about Mormons. It sounds like D. Mike wants to peruse the screenplays, but this might also be something a Drama editor could do (though I know D. Mike wants to do it). Travis ----- Original Message ----- > This, of course, still leaves open the question of whether or not plays > should be grouped with fiction in the magazine. Part of me feels like I'm > not really qualified to judge the merit of plays. On the other hand, is > there enough good drama out there to sustain a separate department? From > what I've seen so far, the answer is no. But a good drama editor may be able > to solicit material that I would never be aware of. > > I'm happy to give up the drama and screenplays if it means they'll receive > better treatment at the hands of another section editor. At the same time, > I'm happy to keep doing what I've been doing. I will defer to our esteemed > editor on this one... > > Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 11:17:07 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A74.70A0A760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Why don't you guys who had these great ideas send out some queries on AML-List and elsewhere (Travis on translated literature and Quinn on online writing). If you get enough momentum going, we could talk about scheduling a special issue, or if it doesn't reach that level, maybe we could get some good stand-alone pieces to run related to these topics. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:41 PM My two cents on Travis's themed-issue ideas and Chris's response... | It would be interesting to still do an all-film issue, perhaps after this | year's round of film. | >>> | | Unless I hear otherwise, I'm counting on this for the winter 2003-04 issue | (deadline Dec. 15, 2003). Would this include printing original screenplays that have yet to be filmed? Several have been submitted to the Irreantum fiction contest, and a couple have been pretty decent. D. Michael, I'm assuming you're taking the lead on the film issue -- if you're interested in looking at original screenplays as they come in (I think they're all being routed to the fiction department right now), let me know. | A translation issue, where we take works from many different | languages/cultures and find folks to translate them. It would take some | work, but in a year or two from now it could be put together. I *really* like this idea, and I think there is enough bilingual talent among the AML membership that translators could be recruited to fill specific needs. If you like this idea, Chris, why not send out a trial balloon on AML-List and ask if people are aware of non-English LDS writers? I know there was a Brazilian guy on the list for a while, but he kind of vanished (or perhaps left after one too many people commented on his poor English). | Perhaps a combined issue with drama and film, with interviews, reviews, one | act plays, | parts of screenplays, etc. | >>> | | I think drama is a big enough area for its own special issue, actually. I | was disappointed we didn't find a drama editor. But maybe we can get someone | to spearhead a special issue. I'd say this is a top priority, maybe for the | winter 2004-05 issue (deadline Dec. 15, 2004.) Again, all the drama is coming to the fiction department right now, and I really feel like there's enough of it out there to warrant a separate department and/or special issue. Perhaps Eric Samuelson or Thom Duncan (or any number of other AML members) would be interested in recruiting original plays and/or guest editing. | <<< | Spiritual memoir anybody? (I might like to head something like | that.) | >>> | | Isn't this a subset of creative/literary nonfiction? Or would it need its | own issue? I would vote to combine this with Travis's idea for a literary nonfiction issue. Doesn't AML give an award for best "Devotional Writing" or something like that? (I think Neal A. Maxwell got it a while back, if I'm not mistaken.) To me, this could be nicely combined with a personal essay / creative nonfiction issue. | <<< | Mormon folklore is another, we could get a guest editor. | >>> | | This one has lots of potential, if we could get the right editor. I know a few people who focused on folklore studies in their graduate programs who would jump at the chance to bring Mormon folklore studies to a broader audience. And I'll just add one more suggestion to the possible theme-issue list: Online writing by and about Mormons. There are a lot of writers who maintain websites with original online-only material, and a new crop of LDS writers who have personal weblogs. I've had the idea in the back of my head to put together a presentation about Mormon Bloggers for the AML Conference, and I'd love to see something in Irreantum about the topic. Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A74.70A0A760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] special issues</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Why don't you guys who had these great ideas send out = some queries on AML-List and elsewhere (Travis on translated literature = and Quinn on online writing). If you get enough momentum going, we = could talk about scheduling a special issue, or if it doesn't reach = that level, maybe we could get some good stand-alone pieces to run = related to these topics. -----Original Message----- From: Quinn Warnick [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:quinn@whiteshoe.org">mailto:quinn@whiteshoe.org</A>]</FON= T> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:41 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues My two cents on Travis's themed-issue ideas and = Chris's response... | It would be interesting to still do an all-film = issue, perhaps after this | year's round of film. | >>> | | Unless I hear otherwise, I'm counting on this for = the winter 2003-04 issue | (deadline Dec. 15, 2003). Would this include printing original screenplays that = have yet to be filmed? Several have been submitted to the Irreantum fiction = contest, and a couple have been pretty decent. D. Michael, I'm assuming = you're taking the lead on the film issue -- if you're interested in looking at = original screenplays as they come in (I think they're all being routed to = the fiction department right now), let me know. | A translation issue, where we take works from many = different | languages/cultures and find folks to translate = them. It would take some | work, but in a year or two from now it could be = put together. I *really* like this idea, and I think there is = enough bilingual talent among the AML membership that translators could be = recruited to fill specific needs. If you like this idea, Chris, why = not send out a trial balloon on AML-List and ask if people are aware of = non-English LDS writers? I know there was a Brazilian guy on the list for a = while, but he kind of vanished (or perhaps left after one too many people = commented on his poor English). | Perhaps a combined issue with drama and film, with = interviews, reviews, one | act plays, | parts of screenplays, etc. | >>> | | I think drama is a big enough area for its own = special issue, actually. I | was disappointed we didn't find a drama editor. = But maybe we can get someone | to spearhead a special issue. I'd say this is a = top priority, maybe for the | winter 2004-05 issue (deadline Dec. 15, = 2004.) Again, all the drama is coming to the fiction = department right now, and I really feel like there's enough of it out there to = warrant a separate department and/or special issue. Perhaps Eric = Samuelson or Thom Duncan (or any number of other AML members) would be interested = in recruiting original plays and/or guest editing. | <<< | Spiritual memoir anybody? (I might like to head = something like | that.) | >>> | | Isn't this a subset of creative/literary = nonfiction? Or would it need its | own issue? I would vote to combine this with Travis's idea for a = literary nonfiction issue. Doesn't AML give an award for best = "Devotional Writing" or something like that? (I think Neal A. Maxwell got it a while = back, if I'm not mistaken.) To me, this could be nicely combined with = a personal essay / creative nonfiction issue. | <<< | Mormon folklore is another, we could get a guest = editor. | >>> | | This one has lots of potential, if we could get = the right editor. I know a few people who focused on folklore studies = in their graduate programs who would jump at the chance to bring = Mormon folklore studies to a broader audience. And I'll just add one more suggestion to the possible = theme-issue list: Online writing by and about Mormons. There are a lot = of writers who maintain websites with original online-only material, and a = new crop of LDS writers who have personal weblogs. I've had the idea in the = back of my head to put together a presentation about Mormon Bloggers for = the AML Conference, and I'd love to see something in Irreantum about the = topic. Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A74.70A0A760-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 11:49:42 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A78.FDA0B480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will appear in the AML Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, that would be up to you on how to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one at the same time that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed one of these theater guys didn't step forward. I think for now we just have to encourage Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for drama essays and script excerpts, as part of their bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and Dialogue on drama (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at the following recent exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi Peterson (start with his message below mine): <<< I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor at BYU. He's at EricSamuelsen@comcast.net. Other names from the list that come to mind, who have reviewed or written plays: R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com Marianne Hales Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Thom Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get involved. He's at Nnlabute@aol.com. I'll let you know if I think of any more. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM Christopher: I need to locate some people who can referee plays or articles about plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but in my vast inattention to such details, I can't remember who they are. Can you help me by naming some? Your help would be much appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com >>> In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue doing Irreantum.) I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A78.FDA0B480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Drama and our broader role</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will = appear in the AML Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, = Travis, that would be up to you on how to best use the essay = space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one = at the same time that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was = disappointed one of these theater guys didn't step forward. I think for = now we just have to encourage Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for = drama essays and script excerpts, as part of their bigger = depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and = Dialogue on drama (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at = the following recent exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, = Levi Peterson (start with his message below mine): <<< I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor = at BYU. He's at EricSamuelsen@comcast.net. Other names from the list that come to mind, who have = reviewed or written plays: R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com Marianne Hales = Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Thom Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get = involved. He's at Nnlabute@aol.com. I'll let you know if I think of any more. -----Original Message----- From: Levi Peterson [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:althlevip@msn.com">mailto:althlevip@msn.com</A>] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM To: Christopher Bigelow Subject: From Levi Christopher: I need to locate some people who can referee plays or = articles about plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the = AML-List, but in my vast inattention to such details, I can't remember = who they are. Can you help me by naming some? Your help would be much = appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com >>> In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded = editors, I wonder if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and = compelling. I wonder how much of a position we're already in of = gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. = The fact that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes = me wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I = think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to dip = much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue doing = Irreantum.) I do think we offer some specialized literary niche = stuff that Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader = focus on Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to = justify our existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already = providing enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon = intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being = the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be = a worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that = we could carve out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of = the Ensign and Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a = junior version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. = Is that right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of = readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative = and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the = romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt of = that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A78.FDA0B480-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Another contest comment Date: 24 Jun 2003 11:49:55 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A79.0556E320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It occurs to me that another way to handle the Irreantum contest could be to award prizes in similar categories as the annual AML awards for published works. For example, best screenplay, best novel excerpt, best story, etc. But that might be too ambitious, unless we brought in more judges. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A79.0556E320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Another contest comment</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> It occurs to me that another way to handle the = Irreantum contest could be to award prizes in similar categories as the = annual AML awards for published works. For example, best screenplay, = best novel excerpt, best story, etc. But that might be too ambitious, = unless we brought in more judges. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A79.0556E320-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 11:58:32 -0600 I don't read Dialog, but I see precious little literature or discussion of literature in Sunstone. If we have competition for being the premier LDS literary magazine, I don't think it's from Sunstone. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 12:42:35 -0600 Maybe that survey we considered sending out could help answer some of these questions. Marny At 11:49 AM -0600 6/24/03, Christopher Bigelow wrote: >In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder >if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I >wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the >bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact >that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me >wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I >think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to >dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue >doing Irreantum.) > >I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that >Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on >Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our >existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing >enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual >buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor >leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a >worthwhile role to fill. > >One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve >out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and >Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior >version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that >right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of >readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative >and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the >romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt >of that. > >Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 11:36:13 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C33A44.D13C8F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drama and our broader roleI have no problem whatsoever servicing a 500 = press run for Irreantum. I have no problem playing second fiddle to = Dialogue and Sunstone; Dialogue has been around since 1966, and = Sunstone, since, what, 1973-ish? We're nearly five years on the Mormon = literary publishing scene. We provide a valuable service to our = readers. And, we can continue to grow readers.=20 I think part of Irreantum's future reading niche is tapping into the = Mormon colleges (BYU-P, BYU-I, BYU-H, LDSBC and SVU), and colleges with = strong institute programs (we can consistently advertise with them, = perhaps, if allowed); and, we need to widen our network of contacts with = grad students all over. Here at Eastern Washington U., I was surprised = to find exactly *four* other Mormon grad students!! Can you imagine how = many thousand Mormon writers out there that are not tapped into a mag = like Irreantum. These fellow students at EWU had no idea about = Irreantum. So we've got to grow name recognition, I believe. We can = grow a larger reading audience because we connected with them in = college; but we need to establish stronger relationships with the = individual profs at these colleges, and advertise in the form of posting = flyers at these schools for writing contests and general submissions, = for example. =20 I said this several months back, that we need to market more effectively = to the budding Mormon literary artist! I guess the onus is ours. If = we're truly committed to the AML's focus to promote Mormon letters, we = need to consider this mantra more poignantly. =20 Do Sunstone and Dialogue market to college-age literary-ites? Sunstone = can't, as BYU en masse turns a cold shoulder on them. I guess Dialogue = is accepted. I've been told if I ever want to teach at BYU I can never = publish in Sunstone before I was considered for hiring; on the other = hand, I've seen a plethora of active, tenured, and emeritus BYU profs = published in Sunstone, so *they* see Sunstone as a viable publishing = avenue, though the Church and administration do not. There surely is a = need and niche at least for Mormon writers; but we need to continue to = grow Mormon lit. readers. Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack of a better phrase. = I don't know, alter our content, change our format. You know, real = marketing analysis (which I don't know how to do). As of now, it feels = like we're winging it on a few grants. What happens when/if Chris = Bigelow burns out? Do we have the infrastructure to continue? Maybe. = Gideon is pretty committed, as I'm sure you all are. But Chris does a = heck of a lot behind the scenes as managing editor, I'm sure of it! Notwithstanding, I think the more quality Mormon literary pubs we have = the better. We cannot achieve a substantive body of Mormon lit without, = well, a substantive body of Mormon lit. So, Irreantum provides a = valuable service for Mormon literary artists and readers. Soon, = however, I'm feeling like we need to take Irreantum to another level. Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:49 AM Subject: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will appear in the AML = Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, that would = be up to you on how to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one at the same time = that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed one of these = theater guys didn't step forward. I think for now we just have to = encourage Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for drama essays and = script excerpts, as part of their bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and Dialogue on drama = (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at the following recent = exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi Peterson (start = with his message below mine): <<<=20 I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor at BYU. He's at=20 EricSamuelsen@comcast.net.=20 Other names from the list that come to mind, who have reviewed or = written plays:=20 R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com=20 D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com=20 Marianne Hales Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com=20 Thom Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net=20 J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com=20 I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get involved. He's at = Nnlabute@aol.com.=20 I'll let you know if I think of any more.=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Levi Peterson [mailto:althlevip@msn.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM=20 To: Christopher Bigelow=20 Subject: From Levi=20 Christopher:=20 I need to locate some people who can referee plays or articles about = plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but in my = vast inattention to such details, I can't remember who they are. Can you = help me by naming some? Your help would be much appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson=20 althlevip@msn.com=20 >>>=20 In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if = Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how = much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' = leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum = can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile = the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I think 500+ readers are = still worth servicing, but if that were to dip much at any point, I = don't know that I'd personally continue doing Irreantum.)=20 I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that = Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on = Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our = existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing = enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? = Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor leagues to = the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a worthwhile role to = fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve = out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and = Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version = of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are = we still trying to reach a different kind of readership? I do think we = venture into the realm of the conservative and the popular more often = than S & D do--wait until you see the romance package in the upcoming = summer issue, if you have any doubt of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C33A44.D13C8F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Drama and our broader role</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>I have no problem whatsoever servicing a 500 press = run for=20 Irreantum. I have no problem playing second fiddle to Dialogue and = Sunstone; Dialogue has been around since 1966, and Sunstone, since, = what,=20 1973-ish? We're nearly five years on the Mormon literary = publishing=20 scene. We provide a valuable service to our readers. And, we = can=20 continue to grow readers. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think part of Irreantum's future reading niche is = tapping=20 into the Mormon colleges (BYU-P, BYU-I, BYU-H, LDSBC and SVU), and = colleges with=20 strong institute programs (we can consistently advertise with them, = perhaps, if=20 allowed); and, we need to widen our network of contacts with grad = students all=20 over. Here at Eastern Washington U., I was surprised to find = exactly=20 *four* other Mormon grad students!! Can you imagine how many = thousand=20 Mormon writers out there that are not tapped into a mag like=20 Irreantum. These fellow students at EWU had no idea about=20 Irreantum. So we've got to grow name recognition, I=20 believe. We can grow a larger reading audience because = we=20 connected with them in college; but we need to establish stronger = relationships=20 with the individual profs at these colleges, and advertise in the form = of=20 posting flyers at these schools for writing contests and general = submissions,=20 for example. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I said this several months back, that we need to = market more=20 effectively to the budding Mormon literary artist! I guess the = onus is=20 ours. If we're truly committed to the AML's focus to promote = Mormon=20 letters, we need to consider this mantra more poignantly. = </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do Sunstone and Dialogue market to college-age=20 literary-ites? Sunstone can't, as BYU en masse turns a cold = shoulder on=20 them. I guess Dialogue is accepted. I've been told if I ever = want to=20 teach at BYU I can never publish in Sunstone before I was considered for = hiring;=20 on the other hand, I've seen a plethora of active, tenured,=20 and emeritus BYU profs published in Sunstone, so *they* see = Sunstone=20 as a viable publishing avenue, though the Church and administration do=20 not. There surely is a need and niche at least for Mormon = writers;=20 but we need to continue to grow Mormon lit. readers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack = of a=20 better phrase. I don't know, alter our content, change our = format. =20 You know, real marketing analysis (which I don't know how to do). = As of=20 now, it feels like we're winging it on a few grants. What happens = when/if=20 Chris Bigelow burns out? Do we have the infrastructure to = continue? =20 Maybe. Gideon is pretty committed, as I'm sure you all are. = But=20 Chris does a heck of a lot behind the scenes as managing editor, I'm = sure of=20 it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Notwithstanding, I think the more quality Mormon = literary pubs=20 we have the better. We cannot achieve a substantive body of = Mormon=20 lit without, well, a substantive body of Mormon lit. So,=20 Irreantum provides a valuable service for Mormon literary = artists=20 and readers. Soon, however, I'm feeling like we need to take = Irreantum to=20 another level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 = 10:49=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [irr-ed] Drama and our = broader=20 role</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will = appear in=20 the AML Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, = that=20 would be up to you on how to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit = one at the=20 same time that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed = one of=20 these theater guys didn't step forward. I think for now we just have = to=20 encourage Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for drama essays and = script=20 excerpts, as part of their bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and = Dialogue=20 on drama (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at the = following=20 recent exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi = Peterson (start=20 with his message below mine): <<< I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater = professor at BYU.=20 He's at EricSamuelsen@comcast.net. = Other names from the list that come to mind, who = have reviewed=20 or written plays: R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com D.=20 Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com Marianne Hales=20 Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Thom=20 Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net J. Scott=20 Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get = involved. He's=20 at Nnlabute@aol.com. I'll let you know if I think of any more. = -----Original Message----- From: Levi=20 Peterson [<A=20 href=3D"mailto:althlevip@msn.com">mailto:althlevip@msn.com</A>] = <FONT=20 size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM To:=20 Christopher Bigelow Subject: From = Levi Christopher: I need to locate some people who can referee plays = or articles=20 about plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but = in my=20 vast inattention to such details, I can't remember who they are. Can = you help=20 me by naming some? Your help would be much appreciated. = Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com=20 >>> In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded = editors, I=20 wonder if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. = I wonder=20 how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys'=20 leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum = can't get=20 off its 500-circulation plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile the mag = is for=20 people. (Don't get me wrong--I think 500+ readers are still worth = servicing,=20 but if that were to dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd = personally=20 continue doing Irreantum.) I do think we offer some specialized literary niche = stuff that=20 Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on = Mormon=20 studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our existence = when=20 Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing enough of a = literary diet=20 in their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply = embrace=20 Irreantum as being the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and = Dialogue,=20 which can be a worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was = that we could=20 carve out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign = and=20 Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version = of S=20 & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or = are we=20 still trying to reach a different kind of readership? I do think we = venture=20 into the realm of the conservative and the popular more often than S = & D=20 do--wait until you see the romance package in the upcoming summer = issue, if=20 you have any doubt of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome.=20 </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C33A44.D13C8F60-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 13:27:59 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A86.B89447E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yeah, I still plan to do the survey soon. There's a purple sticky note to that effect in my pile. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:43 PM Maybe that survey we considered sending out could help answer some of these questions. Marny At 11:49 AM -0600 6/24/03, Christopher Bigelow wrote: >In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder >if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I >wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the >bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact >that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me >wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I >think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to >dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue >doing Irreantum.) > >I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that >Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on >Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our >existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing >enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual >buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor >leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a >worthwhile role to fill. > >One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve >out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and >Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior >version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that >right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of >readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative >and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the >romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt >of that. > >Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A86.B89447E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Yeah, I still plan to do the survey soon. There's a purple sticky note to that effect in my pile. -----Original Message----- From: Marny Parkin [<A HREF="mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net">mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net</A>] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:43 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Maybe that survey we considered sending out could help answer some of these questions. Marny At 11:49 AM -0600 6/24/03, Christopher Bigelow wrote: >In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder >if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I >wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the >bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact >that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me >wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I >think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to >dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue >doing Irreantum.) > >I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that >Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on >Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our >existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing >enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual >buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor >leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a >worthwhile role to fill. > >One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve >out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and >Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior >version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that >right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of >readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative >and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the >romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt >of that. > >Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33A86.B89447E0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 15:39:06 -0400 Chris Bigelow wrote: | In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if | Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how | much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, | and if that's really worth doing. I don't think we're just gleaning. I think the editorial board has been wise to not fashion Irreantum into a mini-Sunstone or mini-Dialogue. I like Irreantum's emphasis on the creative rather than the scholarly, and I think the audience is out there. Circulation is a problem for nearly every literary magazine/journal in America, and it may be our lot to slowly move toward 1,000, then to 1,500. When Travis talks about targeting the budding writers of Mormondom, I'm reminded of my experience as editor of Inscape (BYU's student literary journal). One year, when we announced the writing contests for Inscape, we had well over 1,000 people submit their work for publication. But when we went to sell the finished product, we couldn't sell even 100 copies at $3 each. The lesson? People want to be published more than they want to study the craft of writing. That lesson has been strongly confirmed by the quality of submissions to this year's Irreantum fiction contest. We received 77 submissions. I would be interested to know how many of those 77 have Irreantum subscriptions. Speaking of circulation numbers, does anyone know what the readership levels are for Sunstone and Dialogue? | One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out a | new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and | Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version of S | & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we still | trying to reach a different kind of readership? I think Irreantum has done a great job of positioning itself as a thoughtful, yet faithful voice. And the thing that Irreantum does well is address the practical side of publishing. Case in point: the upcoming interview with Jana Reiss (sp?) is fabulous, and I don't think you'd ever see something like that in Sunstone or Dialogue. The recent roundtable discussion with John Bennion, Cheri Earl, Carol Lynch Williams, and (I'm forgetting someone) was excellent, too. As one who aspires to write well, that's the stuff I read first. Travis Manning writes: | Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack of a better phrase. | I don't know, alter our content, change our format. Again (and I promise I'm not just trying to be a cheerleader here), Irreantum has evolved very nicely. Each issue looks more professional and it edited better than the one before it. The slight changes in format (staple binding to perfect binding) have been good -- maybe it's just time for the next level. What about a two color cover? Or coated stock? I don't know enough about DocuTech to talk dimensions, but I'd be happy to learn. Maybe we have other options on format. Does the two-column format make us look more like a newsletter and less like a literary journal? And does the word "magazine" in the subtitle need to be replaced by "journal"? These are just thoughts off the top of my head, but I think it's worth thinking about. I'm the newcomer to the group, so maybe these questions have already been discussed. But here's one final one -- what about moving Irreantum's online presence to irreantum.org and putting some of the content online? I host and design a few websites, and my hosting package has one more domain name slot that I'm not using right now. I'd be happy to host/design/whatever irreantum.org (the domain name is still available) on my server space at no charge if the AML and Irreantum boards are interested. I think we could do some really cool stuff with an online version of the magazine, and it wouldn't be hard to keep updated, either. The section editors could even have their own @irreantum.org email addresses to make us look a little more professional when we interact with potential contributors. Any thoughts on this? Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 15:04:55 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:39 PM We received 77 > submissions. I would be interested to know how many of those 77 have > Irreantum subscriptions. Scrud! Hopefully you're wife is assisting. > Speaking of circulation numbers, does anyone know what the readership levels > are for Sunstone and Dialogue? Wish I knew. And does the word > "magazine" in the subtitle need to be replaced by "journal"? These are just > thoughts off the top of my head, but I think it's worth thinking about. I'm > the newcomer to the group, so maybe these questions have already been > discussed. I haven't heard this discussion. I'm okay with "Irreantum, Exploring Mormon Literature, Magazine of the AML" on the front cover. Dialogue's full title is _Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought_, and BYU Studies_ is "A Multidisciplinary Latter-day Saint Journal_. _Sunstone_ adds "Mormon Experience, Scholarship, Issues, & Art_. So, Dialogue and BYU Studies have the subtitle of "journal" with them, which seems to imply scholarly, peer-reviewed critical texts, which both publications have (along with a dose of essay, poetry, and book reviews, but *not* so much fiction). Neither have I seen a screenplay in any Mormon publication, ever! Definitely we can publish fiction and screenplays, and I think Irreantum allows a larger variety of literary nonfiction (or will, I'll see to that). Like Quinn, I think our interviews are also unique. Spring issue we have Jana Riess's interview, and Summer we have Eugene England's last interview, a few months before he died!! Dialogue would love to publish that. I dug it up doing research for a paper and tracked it down. I think Irreantum can be unique with lots of things: fiction, screenplay, interviews, literary nonfiction, even book reviews and our AML-List highlights (though it would be nice to replace that someday with more literary texts). > But here's one final one -- what about moving Irreantum's online presence to > irreantum.org and putting some of the content online? I host and design a > few websites, and my hosting package has one more domain name slot that I'm > not using right now. I'd be happy to host/design/whatever irreantum.org (the > domain name is still available) on my server space at no charge if the AML > and Irreantum boards are interested. I think we could do some really cool > stuff with an online version of the magazine, and it wouldn't be hard to > keep updated, either. The section editors could even have their own > @irreantum.org email addresses to make us look a little more professional > when we interact with potential contributors. Any thoughts on this? I like the idea!! I like the professional idea of having email addresses to communicate with authors. And we could insert a link on the <aml-online.org> site for the <Irreantum.org> site. Simple. Whoever would want to could obtain a new email address, if not, no biggy, your choice. I'd be willing to learn how to maintain a website anyway and could assist Quinn. On the <Irreantum.org> site we could have links to the Mormon Lit. Database and, again, to <aml-online.org> among others. Let's do it!! Travis Manning -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford <jlangfor@pressenter.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 17:52:14 -0500 I see three separate (though related) issues implicit in Chris's queries about the broader role of Irreantum: * Improving Irreantum's circulation * Distinguishing between Irreantum's identity and those of Sunstone and Dialogue (and possibly other competitors out there, like BYU Studies, though it's not been much in the running recently) * Developing a clear sense of Irreantum's audience, and particularly the audience for the creative work we publish On the first issue, I have little to say beyond what Travis has said. Slow network-building and informing of people. I'd love it if we could gain some major coup and boost circulation thereby--and I think it's good for Chris and others to keep shooting for that (so long as we don't lose sight of our focus)--but I don't see any magic bullet here. I will say that I doubt the value of marketing surveys. Which doesn't mean I think a questionnaire is a bad idea, just that (a) it tells us about the interests of those who are already subscribing, not those who aren't already subscribing, and (b) from my experience, customers and potential customers often are unaware of what it is that they really want in a product. Yeah, I think it would be great to find out if anyone's reading AML-List Highlights (I used to wonder about that as the editor of that department), but that's only one bit of data. Speculative questions--I'd like to see more of x versus y, or how would you like to see the magazine change to serve you better--are unlikely to bring clear and useful results. Which doesn't mean, as I said before, that we shouldn't ask the questions--just that I don't think we should place too much hope in them beforehand, or too much importance on them afterwards. Brutal, perhaps, but (I think) true. On the second issue, I see two or three main areas of distinction. First is the sheer volume of creative work we publish. Second is our focus, in our essays and book reviews, on literature and literary criticism as opposed to broader personal, philosophical, and theological issues. Third, and perhaps most important, is our emphasis on news of the Mormon publishing world, including our interviews. Or perhaps they should be listed as a fourth distinct area. Of these, I think that news of the Mormon publishing world is the most fruitful potential area for expansion. I'd like it if Irreantum could become, not just the journal you read if you're interested in Mormon literature, but also the journal you have to read if you're interested in publishing in the Mormon world, either as a publisher or as an author. As Quinn pointed out, there sometimes seem to be more people interested in getting published than in reading someone else's published work. I'm not sure what kind of news is out there to be reported, particularly with the monolithic DB entity, and it's also true that the more interesting the reporting is, the more likely it is to be controversial, which could bring us other problems. But I can't help but feel that there's more out there in this area, if we only knew how to tap into it. (Here's a thought to throw out: What about a department for essays, like Chris's account of his efforts to get published, that talk about nuts and bolts of getting published? *Not* how-to articles, but rather the kind of account Chris gives of what he did and what worked and what not? On the downside, their presence could label us as amateur. On the upside, they might serve a real value in the community and help key us in better to part of who could be our real audience, if my guesses as described above are correct.) Which leads me to the third area. I doubt that there's a distinctively Irreantum audience for literature out there, unless it's that rare breed who likes the entire spectrum of Mormon literature. The closest we can come, I think, is to say that we represent good quality across a broad range of Mormon literature. (I was about to say, across the entire range; but there are some stories too far out for us to carry, and I haven't seen anyone campaigning to fill the gap left by Ensign's removal of fiction with faith-promoting Mormon narratives in Irreantum, either.) We've seen, sadly, in comments on AML-List, that even those who clamor for more LDS literature tend to criticize Irreantum for carrying stuff they don't like, rather than praise it for carrying stuff they do--even when both are present in the same issue. All of which says, depressingly, that to some degree many of us *aren't* really interested in a broad, umbrella-like community of Mormon letters, but rather each of us in our own little vision of what Mormon letters should be. And yet I think the very premise of Irreantum, and indeed of AML as a whole, is based on that umbrella concept, so we must, I suppose, continue to develop it. Anyway. Sorry if that sounds too depressing. I'm actually not depressed about Irreantum--I think it's a fine thing, and has produced already a body of work to be proud of. But I think Chris is right and we need to figure out where we're trying to go, if it's different from where we are, and how we could get there. Particularly, we need to decide on the value of what we're doing, so that people like Chris and Gideon and the rest of you can continue to be excited and feel that it's worth their time. Jonathan Langford guest-member of Irreantum mailing list jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gideon Burton <Gideon_Burton@byu.edu> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 17:28:55 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C33A76.16C6DFF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Irreantum's broader role needs to be discussed among its editors, among = the AML, and within the AML board. I like to think that we can do some = things that neither Sunstone or Dialogue can do. As for overlap with the new editorial team at Dialogue, time will tell. We thought with Neal and = Rebecca Chandler as editors that the literary nature of Dialogue would spike, = but this hasn't been the case (and not necessarily for want of trying-Neal = has repeatedly complained to me about a lack of manuscripts). Frankly, the = fact that Levi comes to Chris for literary recommendations says something = about where the center of the action is-Irreantum! =20 Gideon =20 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:50 AM =20 I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will appear in the AML = Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, that would be up to = you on how to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one at the same time = that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed one of these = theater guys didn't step forward. I think for now we just have to encourage = Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for drama essays and script excerpts, as = part of their bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and Dialogue on drama = (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at the following recent = exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi Peterson (start with his message below mine): <<<=20 I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor at BYU. He's at=20 EricSamuelsen@comcast.net.=20 Other names from the list that come to mind, who have reviewed or = written plays:=20 R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com=20 D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com=20 Marianne Hales Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com=20 Thom Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net=20 J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com=20 I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get involved. He's at Nnlabute@aol.com.=20 I'll let you know if I think of any more.=20 -----Original Message-----=20 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM=20 Christopher:=20 I need to locate some people who can referee plays or articles about = plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but in my vast inattention to such details, I can't remember who they are. Can you help = me by naming some? Your help would be much appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson=20 althlevip@msn.com=20 >>>=20 In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' = leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum can't get off = its 500-circulation plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I think 500+ readers are still worth = servicing, but if that were to dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd = personally continue doing Irreantum.)=20 I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that Dialogue = and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on Mormon studies, = but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing enough of a literary diet in = their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and = Dialogue, which can be a worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out = a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version = of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we = still trying to reach a different kind of readership? I do think we venture = into the realm of the conservative and the popular more often than S & D = do--wait until you see the romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you = have any doubt of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C33A76.16C6DFF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <title>Drama and our broader role</title> <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <div> <div> Irreantum’s broader role = needs to be discussed among its editors, among the AML, and within the AML board. I = like to think that we can do some things that neither Sunstone or Dialogue can = do. As for overlap with the new editorial team at Dialogue, time will tell. We = thought with Neal and Rebecca Chandler as editors that the literary nature of = Dialogue would spike, but this hasn’t been the case (and not necessarily = for want of trying—Neal has repeatedly complained to me about a lack of manuscripts). Frankly, the fact that Levi comes to Chris for literary recommendations says something about where the center of the action = is—Irreantum! Gideon </div> </div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in = 0in 4.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: = owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, June 24, = 2003 11:50 AM To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com' Subject: [irr-ed] Drama = and our broader role I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will appear in the AML Annual, but if = you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, that would be up to you on how = to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one at the same time that = Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed one of these theater guys = didn't step forward. I think for now we just have to encourage Travis and Quinn = to keep an eye out for drama essays and script excerpts, as part of their = bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and Dialogue on drama (as well as = all our other areas of focus). Look at the following recent exchange I had = with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi Peterson (start with his message below = mine): <<< I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor at BYU. He's at = EricSamuelsen@comcast.net. Other names from the list that come to mind, who have reviewed or written = plays: R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com Marianne Hales Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Thom = Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get involved. He's at = Nnlabute@aol.com. I'll let you know if I think of any more. -----Original Message----- From: Levi Peterson [<a href=3D"mailto:althlevip@msn.com">mailto:althlevip@msn.com</a>]</f= ont> Sent: Thursday, June 19, = 2003 11:32 PM To: Christopher = Bigelow Subject: From = Levi Christopher: I need to locate some people who can referee plays or articles about plays for = Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but in my vast inattention to = such details, I can't remember who they are. Can you help me by naming some? = Your help would be much appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com >>> In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if Irreantum = is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how much of a = position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's = really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation = plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me = wrong--I think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to dip = much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue doing Irreantum.) = I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that Dialogue and = Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on Mormon studies, but is that = specialized stuff enough to justify our existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are = probably already providing enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being = the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a = worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and = Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version of S & D that = happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we still trying to = reach a different kind of readership? I do think we venture into the realm of = the conservative and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until = you see the romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt = of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C33A76.16C6DFF0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 17:32:51 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AA8.EE075300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Responding to Travis, I have actually done a fair bit of trying to reach university people. I've sent piles of flyers to dept. secretaries with the request for them to insert them into faculty and graduate boxes, but that took a lot of effort on my part, and I'm not even sure they did it, let alone that the recipients cared. I have harvested e-mail addresses from English department faculty rosters and spammed them with the monthly AML e-newsletter, with some favorable response. If and when I do step aside, my job would probably need to be split into two: Irreantum managing editor and mail clerk. I probably spend as much or more time on the mail (processing incoming mail, doing data entry, aggressively adding new names and addresses to the database to expand our marketing reach) as on the actual editing. As of now, I'm fine to continue, because I enjoy the work and find more meaning in it than my day job, and because I've been able to get great help from y'all. If I knew that someone had the vision and the capacity to take the magazine to the next level--I mean, if I saw proof--I might even step aside just to see what happened under someone else's leadership. But I don't want the magazine to die if someone had grand ideas but couldn't keep up with the day-to-day management and started putting out issues even later and more irregularly than I do. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:36 PM I have no problem whatsoever servicing a 500 press run for Irreantum. I have no problem playing second fiddle to Dialogue and Sunstone; Dialogue has been around since 1966, and Sunstone, since, what, 1973-ish? We're nearly five years on the Mormon literary publishing scene. We provide a valuable service to our readers. And, we can continue to grow readers. I think part of Irreantum's future reading niche is tapping into the Mormon colleges (BYU-P, BYU-I, BYU-H, LDSBC and SVU), and colleges with strong institute programs (we can consistently advertise with them, perhaps, if allowed); and, we need to widen our network of contacts with grad students all over. Here at Eastern Washington U., I was surprised to find exactly *four* other Mormon grad students!! Can you imagine how many thousand Mormon writers out there that are not tapped into a mag like Irreantum. These fellow students at EWU had no idea about Irreantum. So we've got to grow name recognition, I believe. We can grow a larger reading audience because we connected with them in college; but we need to establish stronger relationships with the individual profs at these colleges, and advertise in the form of posting flyers at these schools for writing contests and general submissions, for example. I said this several months back, that we need to market more effectively to the budding Mormon literary artist! I guess the onus is ours. If we're truly committed to the AML's focus to promote Mormon letters, we need to consider this mantra more poignantly. Do Sunstone and Dialogue market to college-age literary-ites? Sunstone can't, as BYU en masse turns a cold shoulder on them. I guess Dialogue is accepted. I've been told if I ever want to teach at BYU I can never publish in Sunstone before I was considered for hiring; on the other hand, I've seen a plethora of active, tenured, and emeritus BYU profs published in Sunstone, so *they* see Sunstone as a viable publishing avenue, though the Church and administration do not. There surely is a need and niche at least for Mormon writers; but we need to continue to grow Mormon lit. readers. Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack of a better phrase. I don't know, alter our content, change our format. You know, real marketing analysis (which I don't know how to do). As of now, it feels like we're winging it on a few grants. What happens when/if Chris Bigelow burns out? Do we have the infrastructure to continue? Maybe. Gideon is pretty committed, as I'm sure you all are. But Chris does a heck of a lot behind the scenes as managing editor, I'm sure of it! Notwithstanding, I think the more quality Mormon literary pubs we have the better. We cannot achieve a substantive body of Mormon lit without, well, a substantive body of Mormon lit. So, Irreantum provides a valuable service for Mormon literary artists and readers. Soon, however, I'm feeling like we need to take Irreantum to another level. Travis ----- Original Message ----- <mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:49 AM I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will appear in the AML Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, that would be up to you on how to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one at the same time that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed one of these theater guys didn't step forward. I think for now we just have to encourage Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for drama essays and script excerpts, as part of their bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and Dialogue on drama (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at the following recent exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi Peterson (start with his message below mine): <<< I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor at BYU. He's at EricSamuelsen@comcast.net. Other names from the list that come to mind, who have reviewed or written plays: R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com Marianne Hales Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Thom Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get involved. He's at Nnlabute@aol.com. I'll let you know if I think of any more. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM Christopher: I need to locate some people who can referee plays or articles about plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but in my vast inattention to such details, I can't remember who they are. Can you help me by naming some? Your help would be much appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com >>> In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue doing Irreantum.) I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AA8.EE075300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Drama and our broader role</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>Responding to Travis, I have actually done a fair bit of trying to reach university people. I've sent piles of flyers to dept. secretaries with the request for them to insert them into faculty and graduate boxes, but that took a lot of effort on my part, and I'm not even sure they did it, let alone that the recipients cared. I have harvested e-mail addresses from English department faculty rosters and spammed them with the monthly AML e-newsletter, with some favorable response.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If and when I do step aside, my job would probably need to be split into two: Irreantum managing editor and mail clerk. I probably spend as much or more time on the mail (processing incoming mail, doing data entry, aggressively adding new names and addresses to the database to expand our marketing reach) as on the actual editing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As of now, I'm fine to continue, because I enjoy the work and find more meaning in it than my day job, and because I've been able to get great help from y'all. If I knew that someone had the vision and the capacity to take the magazine to the next level--I mean, if I saw proof--I might even step aside just to see what happened under someone else's leadership. But I don't want the magazine to die if someone had grand ideas but couldn't keep up with the day-to-day management and started putting out issues even later and more irregularly than I do.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:36 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role </DIV> <DIV>I have no problem whatsoever servicing a 500 press run for Irreantum. I have no problem playing second fiddle to Dialogue and Sunstone; Dialogue has been around since 1966, and Sunstone, since, what, 1973-ish? We're nearly five years on the Mormon literary publishing scene. We provide a valuable service to our readers. And, we can continue to grow readers. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think part of Irreantum's future reading niche is tapping into the Mormon colleges (BYU-P, BYU-I, BYU-H, LDSBC and SVU), and colleges with strong institute programs (we can consistently advertise with them, perhaps, if allowed); and, we need to widen our network of contacts with grad students all over. Here at Eastern Washington U., I was surprised to find exactly *four* other Mormon grad students!! Can you imagine how many thousand Mormon writers out there that are not tapped into a mag like Irreantum. These fellow students at EWU had no idea about Irreantum. So we've got to grow name recognition, I believe. We can grow a larger reading audience because we connected with them in college; but we need to establish stronger relationships with the individual profs at these colleges, and advertise in the form of posting flyers at these schools for writing contests and general submissions, for example. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I said this several months back, that we need to market more effectively to the budding Mormon literary artist! I guess the onus is ours. If we're truly committed to the AML's focus to promote Mormon letters, we need to consider this mantra more poignantly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do Sunstone and Dialogue market to college-age literary-ites? Sunstone can't, as BYU en masse turns a cold shoulder on them. I guess Dialogue is accepted. I've been told if I ever want to teach at BYU I can never publish in Sunstone before I was considered for hiring; on the other hand, I've seen a plethora of active, tenured, and emeritus BYU profs published in Sunstone, so *they* see Sunstone as a viable publishing avenue, though the Church and administration do not. There surely is a need and niche at least for Mormon writers; but we need to continue to grow Mormon lit. readers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack of a better phrase. I don't know, alter our content, change our format. You know, real marketing analysis (which I don't know how to do). As of now, it feels like we're winging it on a few grants. What happens when/if Chris Bigelow burns out? Do we have the infrastructure to continue? Maybe. Gideon is pretty committed, as I'm sure you all are. But Chris does a heck of a lot behind the scenes as managing editor, I'm sure of it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Notwithstanding, I think the more quality Mormon literary pubs we have the better. We cannot achieve a substantive body of Mormon lit without, well, a substantive body of Mormon lit. So, Irreantum provides a valuable service for Mormon literary artists and readers. Soon, however, I'm feeling like we need to take Irreantum to another level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:49 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> I imagine Gideon and co's LDS database paper will appear in the AML Annual, but if you want to get it for Irreantum too, Travis, that would be up to you on how to best use the essay space. On the drama editor, I already did try to recruit one at the same time that Travis and D. Mike came aboard, and I was disappointed one of these theater guys didn't step forward. I think for now we just have to encourage Travis and Quinn to keep an eye out for drama essays and script excerpts, as part of their bigger depts. We are in head-to-head competition with Sunstone and Dialogue on drama (as well as all our other areas of focus). Look at the following recent exchange I had with one of Dialogue's new editors, Levi Peterson (start with his message below mine): <<< I would first go to Eric Samuelsen, theater professor at BYU. He's at EricSamuelsen@comcast.net. Other names from the list that come to mind, who have reviewed or written plays: R.S. Rasband--rrasband@yahoo.com D. Michael Martindale--dmichael@wwno.com Marianne Hales Harding--marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Thom Duncan--thomduncan@prodigy.net J. Scott Bronson--bronsonjscott@juno.com I wonder if Neil LaBute might be willing to get involved. He's at Nnlabute@aol.com. I'll let you know if I think of any more. -----Original Message----- From: Levi Peterson [<A href="mailto:althlevip@msn.com">mailto:althlevip@msn.com</A>] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:32 PM To: Christopher Bigelow Subject: From Levi Christopher: I need to locate some people who can referee plays or articles about plays for Dialogue. I know there are some on the AML-List, but in my vast inattention to such details, I can't remember who they are. Can you help me by naming some? Your help would be much appreciated. Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com >>> In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, and if that's really worth doing. The fact that Irreantum can't get off its 500-circulation plateau makes me wonder how worthwhile the mag is for people. (Don't get me wrong--I think 500+ readers are still worth servicing, but if that were to dip much at any point, I don't know that I'd personally continue doing Irreantum.) I do think we offer some specialized literary niche stuff that Dialogue and Sunstone can't because of their much broader focus on Mormon studies, but is that specialized stuff enough to justify our existence when Dialogue and Sunstone are probably already providing enough of a literary diet in their broader Mormon intellectual buffet? Maybe we need to simply embrace Irreantum as being the minor leagues to the majors of Sunstone and Dialogue, which can be a worthwhile role to fill. One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out a new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version of S & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we still trying to reach a different kind of readership? I do think we venture into the realm of the conservative and the popular more often than S & D do--wait until you see the romance package in the upcoming summer issue, if you have any doubt of that. Anyone's thoughts and outlooks are welcome. </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AA8.EE075300-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana" <remyj@uci.edu> Subject: Re: [irr-ed]our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 16:40:16 -0700 > > domain name is still available) on my server space at no charge if the AML > > and Irreantum boards are interested. I think we could do some really cool > > stuff with an online version of the magazine, and it wouldn't be hard to > > keep updated, either. The section editors could even have their own > > @irreantum.org email addresses to make us look a little more professional > > when we interact with potential contributors. Any thoughts on this? > > I like the idea!! I like the professional idea of having email addresses to > communicate with authors. And we could insert a link on the > <aml-online.org> site for the <Irreantum.org> site. Simple. Whoever would > want to could obtain a new email address, if not, no biggy, your choice. > I'd be willing to learn how to maintain a website anyway and could assist > Quinn. On the <Irreantum.org> site we could have links to the Mormon Lit. > Database and, again, to <aml-online.org> among others. Let's do it!! > Love that idea! I think an email address at the Irreantum domain would boost my level of legitimacy quite a bit when I request review books. It would also give some continuity to my contact info (since my email address tends to change every year or 2). --Jana -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 17:46:25 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AAA.D303D180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Responding to Quinn, I think Dialogue has about 3,000 names on their subscriber list. I've seen the Sunstone figures before but can't remember--I think about 5,000. One of my frustrations is that we don't have a great renewal rate, probably less than a third. That makes me think that the same thing is happening to our subscribers as happens to me when I subscribe to other literary magazines: all four quarterly issues are still sitting in a pile waiting to be read. (I do read the Mormon mags on a timely basis; I'm talking about general lit mags like Glimmertrain and Tin House.) I have the Irreantum production cycle set up to run very smoothly at present, but if a good art director arose who wanted to redesign the magazine and give individual issues more visual pizzazz, I would welcome that. Otherwise the mag's visual looks aren't likely to change much further on my post, including getting involved with more costly and ambitious covers (our one color cover so far came about because Gideon pushed for it, not me). As far as "magazine" vs. "journal," that hasn't really been discussed before, although I've sometimes wondered about it. I think the word "magazine" is more accessible, but maybe "journal" reflects what we really are. I suppose I'll leave it as a magazine unless I hear more persuasion otherwise. I would REALLY welcome a separate Irreantum website with a much more involved webmaster. Frankly, the AML webmaster, while a great guy and good to work with when available, is very difficult to get to do even basic updates, let alone more dynamic stuff. Quinn, would you mind giving me a little proposal I could send to the AML board on this idea, and if they say OK then I think we should go for it. (But it would probably take weeks or months to get the AML site updated with the right links!) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:39 PM Chris Bigelow wrote: | In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded editors, I wonder if | Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and compelling. I wonder how | much of a position we're already in of gleaning the bigger boys' leftovers, | and if that's really worth doing. I don't think we're just gleaning. I think the editorial board has been wise to not fashion Irreantum into a mini-Sunstone or mini-Dialogue. I like Irreantum's emphasis on the creative rather than the scholarly, and I think the audience is out there. Circulation is a problem for nearly every literary magazine/journal in America, and it may be our lot to slowly move toward 1,000, then to 1,500. When Travis talks about targeting the budding writers of Mormondom, I'm reminded of my experience as editor of Inscape (BYU's student literary journal). One year, when we announced the writing contests for Inscape, we had well over 1,000 people submit their work for publication. But when we went to sell the finished product, we couldn't sell even 100 copies at $3 each. The lesson? People want to be published more than they want to study the craft of writing. That lesson has been strongly confirmed by the quality of submissions to this year's Irreantum fiction contest. We received 77 submissions. I would be interested to know how many of those 77 have Irreantum subscriptions. Speaking of circulation numbers, does anyone know what the readership levels are for Sunstone and Dialogue? | One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was that we could carve out a | new middle-ground audience between the poles of the Ensign and | Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really just a junior version of S | & D that happens to focus only on literature. Is that right, or are we still | trying to reach a different kind of readership? I think Irreantum has done a great job of positioning itself as a thoughtful, yet faithful voice. And the thing that Irreantum does well is address the practical side of publishing. Case in point: the upcoming interview with Jana Reiss (sp?) is fabulous, and I don't think you'd ever see something like that in Sunstone or Dialogue. The recent roundtable discussion with John Bennion, Cheri Earl, Carol Lynch Williams, and (I'm forgetting someone) was excellent, too. As one who aspires to write well, that's the stuff I read first. Travis Manning writes: | Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack of a better phrase. | I don't know, alter our content, change our format. Again (and I promise I'm not just trying to be a cheerleader here), Irreantum has evolved very nicely. Each issue looks more professional and it edited better than the one before it. The slight changes in format (staple binding to perfect binding) have been good -- maybe it's just time for the next level. What about a two color cover? Or coated stock? I don't know enough about DocuTech to talk dimensions, but I'd be happy to learn. Maybe we have other options on format. Does the two-column format make us look more like a newsletter and less like a literary journal? And does the word "magazine" in the subtitle need to be replaced by "journal"? These are just thoughts off the top of my head, but I think it's worth thinking about. I'm the newcomer to the group, so maybe these questions have already been discussed. But here's one final one -- what about moving Irreantum's online presence to irreantum.org and putting some of the content online? I host and design a few websites, and my hosting package has one more domain name slot that I'm not using right now. I'd be happy to host/design/whatever irreantum.org (the domain name is still available) on my server space at no charge if the AML and Irreantum boards are interested. I think we could do some really cool stuff with an online version of the magazine, and it wouldn't be hard to keep updated, either. The section editors could even have their own @irreantum.org email addresses to make us look a little more professional when we interact with potential contributors. Any thoughts on this? Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AAA.D303D180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Responding to Quinn, I think Dialogue has about 3,000 = names on their subscriber list. I've seen the Sunstone figures before = but can't remember--I think about 5,000. One of my frustrations is that we don't have a great = renewal rate, probably less than a third. That makes me think that the = same thing is happening to our subscribers as happens to me when I = subscribe to other literary magazines: all four quarterly issues are = still sitting in a pile waiting to be read. (I do read the Mormon mags = on a timely basis; I'm talking about general lit mags like Glimmertrain = and Tin House.) I have the Irreantum production cycle set up to run = very smoothly at present, but if a good art director arose who wanted = to redesign the magazine and give individual issues more visual = pizzazz, I would welcome that. Otherwise the mag's visual looks aren't = likely to change much further on my post, including getting involved = with more costly and ambitious covers (our one color cover so far came = about because Gideon pushed for it, not me). As far as "magazine" vs. = "journal," that hasn't really been discussed before, although = I've sometimes wondered about it. I think the word "magazine" = is more accessible, but maybe "journal" reflects what we = really are. I suppose I'll leave it as a magazine unless I hear more = persuasion otherwise. I would REALLY welcome a separate Irreantum website = with a much more involved webmaster. Frankly, the AML webmaster, while = a great guy and good to work with when available, is very difficult to = get to do even basic updates, let alone more dynamic stuff. Quinn, = would you mind giving me a little proposal I could send to the AML = board on this idea, and if they say OK then I think we should go for = it. (But it would probably take weeks or months to get the AML site = updated with the right links!) -----Original Message----- From: Quinn Warnick [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:quinn@whiteshoe.org">mailto:quinn@whiteshoe.org</A>]</FON= T> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:39 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader = role Chris Bigelow wrote: | In fact, with Dialogue's new very literary-minded = editors, I wonder if | Irreantum is going to be even less relevant and = compelling. I wonder how | much of a position we're already in of gleaning = the bigger boys' leftovers, | and if that's really worth doing. I don't think we're just gleaning. I think the = editorial board has been wise to not fashion Irreantum into a mini-Sunstone or = mini-Dialogue. I like Irreantum's emphasis on the creative rather than the = scholarly, and I think the audience is out there. Circulation is a problem = for nearly every literary magazine/journal in America, and it may be = our lot to slowly move toward 1,000, then to 1,500. When Travis talks about targeting the budding writers = of Mormondom, I'm reminded of my experience as editor of Inscape = (BYU's student literary journal). One year, when we announced the writing = contests for Inscape, we had well over 1,000 people submit their work for = publication. But when we went to sell the finished product, we couldn't sell = even 100 copies at $3 each. The lesson? People want to be published more = than they want to study the craft of writing. That lesson has been strongly = confirmed by the quality of submissions to this year's Irreantum fiction = contest. We received 77 submissions. I would be interested to know how many = of those 77 have Irreantum subscriptions. Speaking of circulation numbers, does anyone know = what the readership levels are for Sunstone and Dialogue? | One of the big hopes for Irreantum initially was = that we could carve out a | new middle-ground audience between the poles of = the Ensign and | Sunstone/Dialogue. However, I think we're really = just a junior version of S | & D that happens to focus only on literature. = Is that right, or are we still | trying to reach a different kind of = readership? I think Irreantum has done a great job of positioning = itself as a thoughtful, yet faithful voice. And the thing that = Irreantum does well is address the practical side of publishing. Case in = point: the upcoming interview with Jana Reiss (sp?) is fabulous, and I = don't think you'd ever see something like that in Sunstone or Dialogue. The = recent roundtable discussion with John Bennion, Cheri Earl, Carol = Lynch Williams, and (I'm forgetting someone) was excellent, too. As one who = aspires to write well, that's the stuff I read first. Travis Manning writes: | Perhaps we could in some way go *more hip* for lack = of a better phrase. | I don't know, alter our content, change our = format. Again (and I promise I'm not just trying to be a = cheerleader here), Irreantum has evolved very nicely. Each issue looks = more professional and it edited better than the one before it. The slight = changes in format (staple binding to perfect binding) have been good -- maybe = it's just time for the next level. What about a two color cover? Or coated = stock? I don't know enough about DocuTech to talk dimensions, but I'd be = happy to learn. Maybe we have other options on format. Does the two-column = format make us look more like a newsletter and less like a literary = journal? And does the word "magazine" in the subtitle need to be = replaced by "journal"? These are just thoughts off the top of my head, but I think it's = worth thinking about. I'm the newcomer to the group, so maybe these questions = have already been discussed. But here's one final one -- what about moving = Irreantum's online presence to irreantum.org and putting some of the content = online? I host and design a few websites, and my hosting package has one more = domain name slot that I'm not using right now. I'd be happy to = host/design/whatever irreantum.org (the domain name is still available) on my server space = at no charge if the AML and Irreantum boards are interested. I think we = could do some really cool stuff with an online version of the magazine, and it = wouldn't be hard to keep updated, either. The section editors could even = have their own @irreantum.org email addresses to make us look a = little more professional when we interact with potential contributors. Any = thoughts on this? Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AAA.D303D180-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 17:58:37 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AAC.87549880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey, Jonathan, I actually found your comments more encouraging than discouraging, overall. Thank you for giving some realism on the survey. I'll probably still send one out eventually, but with more realistic expectations. I sent out a postcard to about 2,000 people on our mailing list offering a special discount of only $12 for a year of Irreantum, but I've been surprised at how low the response rate has been. So I don't see any magic circulation-boosting bullets either. I agree with your comments about news, and I really think interviews are the main key to that. So let's keep pushing those. I've been trying to get Sheri Dew, and I want to interview some LDS people in New York publishing (I know of one editor and one agent). We should also try to interview editors at Covenant, etc. Not just authors. I almost want to sit down and write a real essay about my own publishing efforts, but I'll wait until the journey is more resolved (I'm currently reworking my proposal yet again, and last I heard my agent has several more publishers lined up to look at it). One thing that makes me feel a little guilty is that I've been reading these historical accounts in Dialogue and Sunstone about how all-consuming the magazines have been to run, and I just don't put that level of effort into Irreantum. I just keep the e-mails flowing and get good help and keep the pipelines full and liquid. I do nearly all of it during downtime at my day job, very little at home (and I never lose sleep or meals or entertainment over it). So maybe that's why the magazine hasn't broken out in any big way either in circulation or quality--no one is sweating blood over it like the S & D people apparently have done over the years. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 4:52 PM I see three separate (though related) issues implicit in Chris's queries about the broader role of Irreantum: * Improving Irreantum's circulation * Distinguishing between Irreantum's identity and those of Sunstone and Dialogue (and possibly other competitors out there, like BYU Studies, though it's not been much in the running recently) * Developing a clear sense of Irreantum's audience, and particularly the audience for the creative work we publish On the first issue, I have little to say beyond what Travis has said. Slow network-building and informing of people. I'd love it if we could gain some major coup and boost circulation thereby--and I think it's good for Chris and others to keep shooting for that (so long as we don't lose sight of our focus)--but I don't see any magic bullet here. I will say that I doubt the value of marketing surveys. Which doesn't mean I think a questionnaire is a bad idea, just that (a) it tells us about the interests of those who are already subscribing, not those who aren't already subscribing, and (b) from my experience, customers and potential customers often are unaware of what it is that they really want in a product. Yeah, I think it would be great to find out if anyone's reading AML-List Highlights (I used to wonder about that as the editor of that department), but that's only one bit of data. Speculative questions--I'd like to see more of x versus y, or how would you like to see the magazine change to serve you better--are unlikely to bring clear and useful results. Which doesn't mean, as I said before, that we shouldn't ask the questions--just that I don't think we should place too much hope in them beforehand, or too much importance on them afterwards. Brutal, perhaps, but (I think) true. On the second issue, I see two or three main areas of distinction. First is the sheer volume of creative work we publish. Second is our focus, in our essays and book reviews, on literature and literary criticism as opposed to broader personal, philosophical, and theological issues. Third, and perhaps most important, is our emphasis on news of the Mormon publishing world, including our interviews. Or perhaps they should be listed as a fourth distinct area. Of these, I think that news of the Mormon publishing world is the most fruitful potential area for expansion. I'd like it if Irreantum could become, not just the journal you read if you're interested in Mormon literature, but also the journal you have to read if you're interested in publishing in the Mormon world, either as a publisher or as an author. As Quinn pointed out, there sometimes seem to be more people interested in getting published than in reading someone else's published work. I'm not sure what kind of news is out there to be reported, particularly with the monolithic DB entity, and it's also true that the more interesting the reporting is, the more likely it is to be controversial, which could bring us other problems. But I can't help but feel that there's more out there in this area, if we only knew how to tap into it. (Here's a thought to throw out: What about a department for essays, like Chris's account of his efforts to get published, that talk about nuts and bolts of getting published? *Not* how-to articles, but rather the kind of account Chris gives of what he did and what worked and what not? On the downside, their presence could label us as amateur. On the upside, they might serve a real value in the community and help key us in better to part of who could be our real audience, if my guesses as described above are correct.) Which leads me to the third area. I doubt that there's a distinctively Irreantum audience for literature out there, unless it's that rare breed who likes the entire spectrum of Mormon literature. The closest we can come, I think, is to say that we represent good quality across a broad range of Mormon literature. (I was about to say, across the entire range; but there are some stories too far out for us to carry, and I haven't seen anyone campaigning to fill the gap left by Ensign's removal of fiction with faith-promoting Mormon narratives in Irreantum, either.) We've seen, sadly, in comments on AML-List, that even those who clamor for more LDS literature tend to criticize Irreantum for carrying stuff they don't like, rather than praise it for carrying stuff they do--even when both are present in the same issue. All of which says, depressingly, that to some degree many of us *aren't* really interested in a broad, umbrella-like community of Mormon letters, but rather each of us in our own little vision of what Mormon letters should be. And yet I think the very premise of Irreantum, and indeed of AML as a whole, is based on that umbrella concept, so we must, I suppose, continue to develop it. Anyway. Sorry if that sounds too depressing. I'm actually not depressed about Irreantum--I think it's a fine thing, and has produced already a body of work to be proud of. But I think Chris is right and we need to figure out where we're trying to go, if it's different from where we are, and how we could get there. Particularly, we need to decide on the value of what we're doing, so that people like Chris and Gideon and the rest of you can continue to be excited and feel that it's worth their time. Jonathan Langford guest-member of Irreantum mailing list jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AAC.87549880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Hey, Jonathan, I actually found your comments more = encouraging than discouraging, overall. Thank you for giving some realism on the survey. I'll = probably still send one out eventually, but with more realistic = expectations. I sent out a postcard to about 2,000 people on our = mailing list offering a special discount of only $12 for a year of = Irreantum, but I've been surprised at how low the response rate has = been. So I don't see any magic circulation-boosting bullets = either. I agree with your comments about news, and I really = think interviews are the main key to that. So let's keep pushing those. = I've been trying to get Sheri Dew, and I want to interview some LDS = people in New York publishing (I know of one editor and one agent). We = should also try to interview editors at Covenant, etc. Not just = authors. I almost want to sit down and write a real essay = about my own publishing efforts, but I'll wait until the journey is = more resolved (I'm currently reworking my proposal yet again, and last = I heard my agent has several more publishers lined up to look at = it). One thing that makes me feel a little guilty is that = I've been reading these historical accounts in Dialogue and Sunstone = about how all-consuming the magazines have been to run, and I just = don't put that level of effort into Irreantum. I just keep the e-mails = flowing and get good help and keep the pipelines full and liquid. I do = nearly all of it during downtime at my day job, very little at home = (and I never lose sleep or meals or entertainment over it). So maybe = that's why the magazine hasn't broken out in any big way either in = circulation or quality--no one is sweating blood over it like the S = & D people apparently have done over the years. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Langford [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com">mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com</= A>] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 4:52 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader = role I see three separate (though related) issues implicit = in Chris's queries about the broader role of Irreantum: * Improving Irreantum's circulation * Distinguishing between Irreantum's identity and = those of Sunstone and Dialogue (and possibly other competitors out there, = like BYU Studies, though it's not been much in the running = recently) * Developing a clear sense of Irreantum's audience, = and particularly the audience for the creative work we publish On the first issue, I have little to say beyond what = Travis has said. Slow network-building and informing of people. I'd = love it if we could gain some major coup and boost circulation thereby--and I = think it's good for Chris and others to keep shooting for that (so long = as we don't lose sight of our focus)--but I don't see any magic bullet = here. I will say that I doubt the value of marketing = surveys. Which doesn't mean I think a questionnaire is a bad idea, just that (a) = it tells us about the interests of those who are already subscribing, not = those who aren't already subscribing, and (b) from my experience, = customers and potential customers often are unaware of what it is that they = really want in a product. Yeah, I think it would be great to = find out if anyone's reading AML-List Highlights (I used to wonder about that as = the editor of that department), but that's only one bit of data. = Speculative questions--I'd like to see more of x versus y, or how would you = like to see the magazine change to serve you better--are unlikely to bring = clear and useful results. Which doesn't mean, as I said before, that we = shouldn't ask the questions--just that I don't think we should place = too much hope in them beforehand, or too much importance on them = afterwards. Brutal, perhaps, but (I think) true. On the second issue, I see two or three main areas of = distinction. First is the sheer volume of creative work we = publish. Second is our focus, in our essays and book reviews, on literature and = literary criticism as opposed to broader personal, philosophical, and = theological issues. Third, and perhaps most important, is our emphasis on news = of the Mormon publishing world, including our interviews. Or = perhaps they should be listed as a fourth distinct area. Of these, I think that news of the Mormon publishing = world is the most fruitful potential area for expansion. I'd = like it if Irreantum could become, not just the journal you read if you're = interested in Mormon literature, but also the journal you have to read if = you're interested in publishing in the Mormon world, either as a = publisher or as an author. As Quinn pointed out, there sometimes seem to be more = people interested in getting published than in reading someone else's = published work. I'm not sure what kind of news is out there to be reported, = particularly with the monolithic DB entity, and it's also true that the = more interesting the reporting is, the more likely it is to be = controversial, which could bring us other problems. But I can't help but feel = that there's more out there in this area, if we only knew how to tap into = it. (Here's a thought to throw out: What about a = department for essays, like Chris's account of his efforts to get published, = that talk about nuts and bolts of getting published? *Not* how-to = articles, but rather the kind of account Chris gives of what he did and what worked = and what not? On the downside, their presence could label us as = amateur. On the upside, they might serve a real value in the community and help = key us in better to part of who could be our real audience, if my guesses as = described above are correct.) Which leads me to the third area. I doubt that = there's a distinctively Irreantum audience for literature out there, unless = it's that rare breed who likes the entire spectrum of Mormon = literature. The closest we can come, I think, is to say that we represent good = quality across a broad range of Mormon literature. (I was about to = say, across the entire range; but there are some stories too far out for us to = carry, and I haven't seen anyone campaigning to fill the gap left by Ensign's = removal of fiction with faith-promoting Mormon narratives in Irreantum, = either.) We've seen, sadly, in comments on AML-List, that even those who = clamor for more LDS literature tend to criticize Irreantum for carrying = stuff they don't like, rather than praise it for carrying stuff they = do--even when both are present in the same issue. All of which says, = depressingly, that to some degree many of us *aren't* really interested in a = broad, umbrella-like community of Mormon letters, but rather each of us = in our own little vision of what Mormon letters should be. And yet I = think the very premise of Irreantum, and indeed of AML as a whole, is based on = that umbrella concept, so we must, I suppose, continue to develop = it. Anyway. Sorry if that sounds too = depressing. I'm actually not depressed about Irreantum--I think it's a fine thing, and has = produced already a body of work to be proud of. But I think Chris is = right and we need to figure out where we're trying to go, if it's different from = where we are, and how we could get there. Particularly, we need to = decide on the value of what we're doing, so that people like Chris and Gideon = and the rest of you can continue to be excited and feel that it's worth = their time. Jonathan Langford guest-member of Irreantum mailing list jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33AAC.87549880-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 24 Jun 2003 20:56:38 -0600 Jonathan Langford wrote: | Of these, I think that news of the Mormon publishing world is the most | fruitful potential area for expansion. I'd like it if Irreantum could | become, not just the journal you read if you're interested in Mormon | literature, but also the journal you have to read if you're interested in | publishing in the Mormon world, either as a publisher or as an author. [snip] | I'm not | sure what kind of news is out there to be reported, particularly with the | monolithic DB entity, and it's also true that the more interesting the | reporting is, the more likely it is to be controversial, which could bring | us other problems. But I can't help but feel that there's more out there | in this area, if we only knew how to tap into it. I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. And I think there's so much more out there than Deseret Book and Covenant. There are a few independent presses dedicated to LDS topics, and if you expand beyond writing into drama and film, you've got independent artists struggling to get the word out about their projects. Just look at Preston Hunter's email updates about Mormon cinema -- while the quality of the projects mentioned may be in question, the quantity certainly is not. Again, I think that's the void Irreantum fills. Sunstone has a section at the front of the magazine with short news items, but Dialogue has nothing of the sort. And Irreantum's coverage of these topics is far more detailed than what you find in Sunstone. Travis Manning wrote: | I like the professional idea of having email addresses to | communicate with authors. And we could insert a link on the | <aml-online.org> site for the <Irreantum.org> site. Simple. Whoever would | want to could obtain a new email address, if not, no biggy, your choice. Then Jana Remy concurred: | I think an email address at the Irreantum domain would boost my level of | legitimacy quite a bit when I request review books. It would also give some | continuity to my contact info (since my email address tends to change every | year or 2). Then Chris got me really excited: | I would REALLY welcome a separate Irreantum website with a much more | involved webmaster. [snip] Quinn, would you mind giving me a | little proposal I could send to the AML board on this idea, and if they say | OK then I think we should go for it. (But it would probably take weeks or | months to get the AML site updated with the right links!) Aye aye, captain! I'll have a proposal for you to forward to the board ASAP. And I'll crank out a site design and post a test page to this list so people can give feedback on the design and content areas. The backend system I have in mind to run the content of the site is really simple to use once the site is designed with templates. It would make keeping the site updated quite easy, and I would welcome Travis's help and/or be open to having each section editor update their portion of the site. We'll see what the board says and go from there. On a slightly different note, Chris wrote: | I have the Irreantum production cycle set up to run very smoothly at | present, but if a good art director arose who wanted to redesign the | magazine and give individual issues more visual pizzazz, I would welcome | that. Otherwise the mag's visual looks aren't likely to change much further | on my post, including getting involved with more costly and ambitious covers | (our one color cover so far came about because Gideon pushed for it, not | me). I am an amateur designer, but I love typography and book design. I have mixed feelings about the two-column layout in Irreantum -- I'm not sure I'd get rid of it altogether, but the pages could use a little more white space. Which would increase the page count in each issue. Which would drive up printing costs. I know, it's a problem, but I think one of the things that works against us is that the size and weight of the magazine doesn't feel "substantial" enough in your hands. Sunstone looks like a magazine (despite the thick, uncoated paper inside), and Dialogue (and BYU Studies) look like academic journals, with the 6"x9" format. I know that Irreantum's design takes advantage of the 8.5"x14" sheet folded in half --- Wait. I take it all back. I just got up from my computer to go get a past issue to make sure on the size, and as I looked through it I realized how nicely designed it is. I might vote for a slightly larger font or larger titles and bylines, but overall, I've been consistently impressed with each new issue. So I'll stop offering suggestions until Chris wants reevaluate the design and layout. I don't think we have a thing to feel inferior about. It will just take time. Dialogue didn't start out with a 3,000-name subscriber list. Quinn Warnick -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 24 Jun 2003 23:07:19 -0600 Chris Bigelow wrote: | Unless and until we think there are enough screenplays to warrant a separate | screenplay contest, we'll continue to invite screenplay submissions in the | annual fiction contest, which means those entries will initially all go to | the fiction editor, who judges the contest. (I suppose I could be persuaded | that in the future the "fiction" contest should consider only short story | and novel excerpt, but I've wanted to include screenplays and play scripts | as well, since they're part of Irreantum's focus. Quinn, what do you say? | Can they all be judged together as stories, or not?) This time around, yes, they're all being judged together. I guess the question is one of fairness -- are the screenplays and the plays getting a fair shake by being lumped in with the short stories? I'm not sure. Then again, last year's winner of the fiction contest (if I'm not mistaken) was a lengthy narrative poem, so we obviously haven't been bound by strict genre lines in the past. I think you're right in assuming that we'll probably never have enough screenplays to warrant a separate contest, so the question becomes whether or not we invite plays and screenplays to be submitted to the contest. If we continue to invite them as non-contest submissions and don't try to judge them against the short stories, I think they'll be treated more fairly. Maybe we should wait to address this issue when we get a little closer to announcing next year's contest. It's water under the bridge at this point. | Now, if the fiction person wants to get help judging any screenplay entries, | that's fine. And if he or she wants to pass on any screenplays to the film | editor after the contest is over, that's fine too. So Quinn, when you're | done with the contest, go ahead and forward D. Mike any screenplays you | think he might want to consider. I plan on doing exactly that. There is one in particular that I really like that may be awarded a prize and published in the next issue, but other than that one, I'll send the excess screenplays D. Mike's way for further consideration. I can't remember off hand how many screenplays there were, but there were several plays. | If I happen to ever receive a screenplay submission outside of the contest, | which hasn't happened yet, I will forward it straight to D. Mike, not Quinn. | Correct? Yes. Does this go for speculative fiction, too? I've received a few email (non-contest) submissions that I would classify as sci-fi/speculative fiction. If I start to read a story and realize it's sci-fi, should I forward it directly to Marny? Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 25 Jun 2003 01:21:46 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01C33AB8.2526D040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader roleChris wrote: I agree with your comments about news, and I really think interviews are = the main key to that. So let's keep pushing those. I've been trying to = get Sheri Dew, and I want to interview some LDS people in New York = publishing (I know of one editor and one agent). We should also try to = interview editors at Covenant, etc. Not just authors. I almost want to sit down and write a real essay about my own publishing = efforts, but I'll wait until the journey is more resolved (I'm currently = reworking my proposal yet again, and last I heard my agent has several = more publishers lined up to look at it). One thing that makes me feel a little guilty is that I've been reading = these historical accounts in Dialogue and Sunstone about how = all-consuming the magazines have been to run, and I just don't put that = level of effort into Irreantum. I just keep the e-mails flowing and get = good help and keep the pipelines full and liquid. I do nearly all of it = during downtime at my day job, very little at home (and I never lose = sleep or meals or entertainment over it). So maybe that's why the = magazine hasn't broken out in any big way either in circulation or = quality--no one is sweating blood over it like the S & D people = apparently have done over the years. **************************************** Part of the ease, Chris, is your passion and expertise. You have lots = of editing experience, and you love Mormon lit, so it's no big deal. = And, I think you've set up an infrastructure that flows smoothly (minus = Quinn having to preview 77 fiction entries for the fiction = contest--guess that's the nature of the beast sometimes....). =20 With regard to building Irreantum's reputation and circulation, I just = can't help but think we build it one person at a time. We create a huge = network of loyal, dedicated friends, and this includes profs at Mormon = colleges. I know I could reconnect with some old Ricks profs, but am = not sure what to say, as it's been 10 years (and I think only two will = remember me any way, Dan Pearce and Scott Samuelson). Grassroots growth = is where it's it at, IMO. Travis ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01C33AB8.2526D040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"> Chris wrote:</DIV> I agree with your comments about news, and I really = think=20 interviews are the main key to that. So let's keep pushing those. I've = been=20 trying to get Sheri Dew, and I want to interview some LDS people in New = York=20 publishing (I know of one editor and one agent). We should also try to = interview=20 editors at Covenant, etc. Not just authors. I almost want to sit down and write a real essay about = my own=20 publishing efforts, but I'll wait until the journey is more resolved = (I'm=20 currently reworking my proposal yet again, and last I heard my agent has = several=20 more publishers lined up to look at it). One thing that makes me feel a little guilty is that = I've been=20 reading these historical accounts in Dialogue and Sunstone about how=20 all-consuming the magazines have been to run, and I just don't put that = level of=20 effort into Irreantum. I just keep the e-mails flowing and get good help = and=20 keep the pipelines full and liquid. I do nearly all of it during = downtime at my=20 day job, very little at home (and I never lose sleep or meals or = entertainment=20 over it). So maybe that's why the magazine hasn't broken out in any big = way=20 either in circulation or quality--no one is sweating blood over it like = the S=20 & D people apparently have done over the years. **************************************** Part of the ease, Chris, is your passion and expertise. You = have lots=20 of editing experience, and you love Mormon lit, so it's no big = deal. And,=20 I think you've set up an infrastructure that flows smoothly (minus Quinn = having=20 to preview 77 fiction entries for the fiction contest--guess that's the = nature=20 of the beast sometimes....). With regard to building Irreantum's reputation and = circulation, I just=20 can't help but think we build it one person at a time. We create a = huge=20 network of loyal, dedicated friends, and this includes profs at Mormon=20 colleges. I know I could reconnect with some old Ricks profs, but = am not=20 sure what to say, as it's been 10 years (and I think only two will = remember me=20 any way, Dan Pearce and Scott Samuelson). Grassroots growth is = where it's=20 it at, IMO. Travis</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01C33AB8.2526D040-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 25 Jun 2003 01:49:19 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:56 PM > I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. And I think there's so much more > out there than Deseret Book and Covenant. There are a few independent > presses dedicated to LDS topics, and if you expand beyond writing into drama > and film, you've got independent artists struggling to get the word out > about their projects. Just look at Preston Hunter's email updates about > Mormon cinema -- while the quality of the projects mentioned may be in > question, the quantity certainly is not. Again, I think that's the void > Irreantum fills. Sunstone has a section at the front of the magazine with > short news items, but Dialogue has nothing of the sort. And Irreantum's > coverage of these topics is far more detailed than what you find in > Sunstone. I like the idea of exploring the independent Mormon literary artist. Perhaps some interesting features, or interviews. I think independent websites might bring us some contacts there. Even artists that self-publish. Producing an entire book from scratch is a blast. Who says you have to make money at it. Like Eugene England said, in paraphrase, something to the effect that Shakespeare's initial audience was no larger than the population of BYU, and look at his audience now. England wrote specifically *for* the limited Mormon audience, because it was an important enough venture in his own mind. Shakespeare wrote quality stuff that has survived and will continue to for thousands of years (unless we all start speaking Adamic any time soon). How long will Irreantum be remembered? I think our focus, expertise, and ingenuity will determine this. I still like the idea of publishing parts of screenplays in Irreantum. I've only ever read a couple pages of ONE. We ought to get Irreantum readers (including myself) used to the format and structure of a screenplay. Film is a vitally important medium, and I think we would do well ourselves to understand that genre inside and out as it is likely the most influential artistic medium for our time (look at what DVDs are doing, they're just phenomenal; over Christmas, I watched the producer's cut of _A Beautiful Mind_ and loved hearing Ron Howard walk me through the scenes, what happened, what didn't, why they did certain camera angles, etc. Just awesome). Oh, and I think we ought to have a meeting. Yeah. During the LDSBA and Sunstone symposium time, the second week in August. I'll be in Utah from Spokane and would love to meet, *in person*, let's see: Marny Parkin, Quinn Warnick, Jonathan Langford (though I know you live in Wisconsin), Jana Remy (California?), Chris Bigelow, off the top of my head, and all people I don't remember ever meeting in person. I think we should touch base the second week in August. Jana, you'll be there, right? Harlow will. Chris. Gideon could make the trek from Provo, etc., etc. We could have lunch somewhere in Sandy, near the LDSBA convention, maybe at Larry Miller's place with the cliff jumpers and stuff, never been. Doesn't D. Mike live in Sandy? Perhaps a joint Irreantum staff meeting and/or AML Board meeting to discuss some of the same things we've been discussing here (or, too many voices might be nonproductive). Or, we continue making Irreantum-related decisions now, and just continue the dialogue in 8 weeks while sipping virgin pina coladas and eating Brazilian BBQ. Something to think about, no decisions need to be made now of course. Just a suggestion. Travis Manning -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana" <remyj@uci.edu> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 25 Jun 2003 08:30:39 -0700 I should be in Utah during Sunstone/Booksellers. I'd love to have an Irreantum meeting. But my advice: it should be somewhat structured (with an agenda) so we can get a lot done. Thx, J ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:49 AM > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> > To: <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:56 PM > Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role > > > > I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. And I think there's so much > more > > out there than Deseret Book and Covenant. There are a few independent > > presses dedicated to LDS topics, and if you expand beyond writing into > drama > > and film, you've got independent artists struggling to get the word out > > about their projects. Just look at Preston Hunter's email updates about > > Mormon cinema -- while the quality of the projects mentioned may be in > > question, the quantity certainly is not. Again, I think that's the void > > Irreantum fills. Sunstone has a section at the front of the magazine with > > short news items, but Dialogue has nothing of the sort. And Irreantum's > > coverage of these topics is far more detailed than what you find in > > Sunstone. > > I like the idea of exploring the independent Mormon literary artist. > Perhaps some interesting features, or interviews. I think independent > websites might bring us some contacts there. Even artists that > self-publish. Producing an entire book from scratch is a blast. Who says > you have to make money at it. Like Eugene England said, in paraphrase, > something to the effect that Shakespeare's initial audience was no larger > than the population of BYU, and look at his audience now. England wrote > specifically *for* the limited Mormon audience, because it was an important > enough venture in his own mind. Shakespeare wrote quality stuff that has > survived and will continue to for thousands of years (unless we all start > speaking Adamic any time soon). How long will Irreantum be remembered? I > think our focus, expertise, and ingenuity will determine this. > > I still like the idea of publishing parts of screenplays in Irreantum. I've > only ever read a couple pages of ONE. We ought to get Irreantum readers > (including myself) used to the format and structure of a screenplay. Film > is a vitally important medium, and I think we would do well ourselves to > understand that genre inside and out as it is likely the most influential > artistic medium for our time (look at what DVDs are doing, they're just > phenomenal; over Christmas, I watched the producer's cut of _A Beautiful > Mind_ and loved hearing Ron Howard walk me through the scenes, what > happened, what didn't, why they did certain camera angles, etc. Just > awesome). > > Oh, and I think we ought to have a meeting. Yeah. During the LDSBA and > Sunstone symposium time, the second week in August. I'll be in Utah from > Spokane and would love to meet, *in person*, let's see: Marny Parkin, Quinn > Warnick, Jonathan Langford (though I know you live in Wisconsin), Jana Remy > (California?), Chris Bigelow, off the top of my head, and all people I don't > remember ever meeting in person. > > I think we should touch base the second week in August. Jana, you'll be > there, right? Harlow will. Chris. Gideon could make the trek from Provo, > etc., etc. We could have lunch somewhere in Sandy, near the LDSBA > convention, maybe at Larry Miller's place with the cliff jumpers and stuff, > never been. Doesn't D. Mike live in Sandy? Perhaps a joint Irreantum staff > meeting and/or AML Board meeting to discuss some of the same things we've > been discussing here (or, too many voices might be nonproductive). Or, we > continue making Irreantum-related decisions now, and just continue the > dialogue in 8 weeks while sipping virgin pina coladas and eating Brazilian > BBQ. Something to think about, no decisions need to be made now of course. > Just a suggestion. > > Travis Manning > > > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] special issues Date: 25 Jun 2003 09:49:31 -0600 Quinn Warnick wrote: >Yes. Does this go for speculative fiction, too? I've received a few email >(non-contest) submissions that I would classify as sci-fi/speculative >fiction. If I start to read a story and realize it's sci-fi, should I >forward it directly to Marny? Yes, please. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 25 Jun 2003 10:16:42 -0600 Yes. But not on Saturday; we have a family reunion. Marny At 8:30 AM -0700 6/25/03, jana wrote: >I should be in Utah during Sunstone/Booksellers. I'd love to have an >Irreantum meeting. But my advice: it should be somewhat structured (with an >agenda) so we can get a lot done. > >Thx, >J >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> >To: <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> >Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:49 AM >Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> > > To: <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role > > > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. And I think there's so much > > more > > > out there than Deseret Book and Covenant. There are a few independent > > > presses dedicated to LDS topics, and if you expand beyond writing into > > drama > > > and film, you've got independent artists struggling to get the word out > > > about their projects. Just look at Preston Hunter's email updates about > > > Mormon cinema -- while the quality of the projects mentioned may be in > > > question, the quantity certainly is not. Again, I think that's the void > > > Irreantum fills. Sunstone has a section at the front of the magazine >with > > > short news items, but Dialogue has nothing of the sort. And Irreantum's > > > coverage of these topics is far more detailed than what you find in > > > Sunstone. > > > > I like the idea of exploring the independent Mormon literary artist. > > Perhaps some interesting features, or interviews. I think independent > > websites might bring us some contacts there. Even artists that > > self-publish. Producing an entire book from scratch is a blast. Who says > > you have to make money at it. Like Eugene England said, in paraphrase, > > something to the effect that Shakespeare's initial audience was no larger > > than the population of BYU, and look at his audience now. England wrote > > specifically *for* the limited Mormon audience, because it was an >important > > enough venture in his own mind. Shakespeare wrote quality stuff that has > > survived and will continue to for thousands of years (unless we all start > > speaking Adamic any time soon). How long will Irreantum be remembered? I > > think our focus, expertise, and ingenuity will determine this. > > > > I still like the idea of publishing parts of screenplays in Irreantum. >I've > > only ever read a couple pages of ONE. We ought to get Irreantum readers > > (including myself) used to the format and structure of a screenplay. Film > > is a vitally important medium, and I think we would do well ourselves to > > understand that genre inside and out as it is likely the most influential > > artistic medium for our time (look at what DVDs are doing, they're just > > phenomenal; over Christmas, I watched the producer's cut of _A Beautiful > > Mind_ and loved hearing Ron Howard walk me through the scenes, what > > happened, what didn't, why they did certain camera angles, etc. Just > > awesome). > > > > Oh, and I think we ought to have a meeting. Yeah. During the LDSBA and > > Sunstone symposium time, the second week in August. I'll be in Utah from > > Spokane and would love to meet, *in person*, let's see: Marny Parkin, >Quinn > > Warnick, Jonathan Langford (though I know you live in Wisconsin), Jana >Remy > > (California?), Chris Bigelow, off the top of my head, and all people I >don't > > remember ever meeting in person. > > > > I think we should touch base the second week in August. Jana, you'll be > > there, right? Harlow will. Chris. Gideon could make the trek from >Provo, > > etc., etc. We could have lunch somewhere in Sandy, near the LDSBA > > convention, maybe at Larry Miller's place with the cliff jumpers and >stuff, > > never been. Doesn't D. Mike live in Sandy? Perhaps a joint Irreantum >staff > > meeting and/or AML Board meeting to discuss some of the same things we've > > been discussing here (or, too many voices might be nonproductive). Or, we > > continue making Irreantum-related decisions now, and just continue the > > dialogue in 8 weeks while sipping virgin pina coladas and eating Brazilian > > BBQ. Something to think about, no decisions need to be made now of >course. > > Just a suggestion. > > > > Travis Manning > > > > > > > > -- > > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > > > > > > > >-- >Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Meeting (was Drama and our broader role) Date: 25 Jun 2003 12:38:08 -0400 I'm planning on attending the LDSBA convention, too, and I'd love to tack on an Irreantum meeting while I'm there. I'm likely to be there on Thursday and Friday (the 14th and 15th), so I would vote for one of those two days. Quinn PS - Chris, can you put me on the list? Thanks... Quinn Warnick 409 North 2280 East St. George, UT 84790 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:16 PM | Yes. But not on Saturday; we have a family reunion. | | Marny | | | At 8:30 AM -0700 6/25/03, jana wrote: | >I should be in Utah during Sunstone/Booksellers. I'd love to have an | >Irreantum meeting. But my advice: it should be somewhat structured (with an | >agenda) so we can get a lot done. | > | >Thx, -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Manning the AML table at LDSBA Date: 25 Jun 2003 10:53:17 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B3A.46B75DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This year, the AML has rented a table at the LDSBA convention. It's located in a side room set aside for "associate" exhibitors. I'm not exactly sure what we're going to do with it, but I imagine it will mainly be for Irreantum. At the minimum, I'll bring a bunch of back issues to lay out on the table (I suppose we could give some away, within definite limits), as well as some AML brochures and order forms. I'm not sure if any other AML/Irreantum staffers are going to come up with anything useful for the table, but I hope so. (This is kind of an experiment.) Would any Irreantum staffers be interested in taking a shift at the table? It would be an interesting opportunity to discuss Irreantum and other things with visitors. Plus, it's fun before and after your shift to make the rounds, meet people, marvel at all the cheesy kitsch, and see what new books and videos are coming. I think we should try to get bookstore owners to at least subscribe to the magazine themselves, if not carry it in their stock. (I will have order forms for both options.) And we could also talk about the AML awards and try to promote those books (it would be nice if someone would make a poster or handout focused on that). The hours we need to man the table are: Wednesday, August 13, 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. Thursday, August 14, 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. Friday, August 15, 10 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. If you're interested and available, let me know all your possible desired time slots (even a single two-hour shift would be useful). Then I will finalize and circulate the schedule to all involved. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B3A.46B75DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Manning the AML table at LDSBA</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> This year, the AML has rented a table at the LDSBA = convention. It's located in a side room set aside for = "associate" exhibitors. I'm not exactly sure what we're going to do with it, = but I imagine it will mainly be for Irreantum. At the minimum, I'll = bring a bunch of back issues to lay out on the table (I suppose we = could give some away, within definite limits), as well as some AML = brochures and order forms. I'm not sure if any other AML/Irreantum = staffers are going to come up with anything useful for the table, but I = hope so. (This is kind of an experiment.) Would any Irreantum staffers be interested in taking = a shift at the table? It would be an interesting opportunity to discuss = Irreantum and other things with visitors. Plus, it's fun before and = after your shift to make the rounds, meet people, marvel at all the = cheesy kitsch, and see what new books and videos are coming. = I think we should try to get bookstore owners to at = least subscribe to the magazine themselves, if not carry it in their = stock. (I will have order forms for both options.) And we could also = talk about the AML awards and try to promote those books (it would be = nice if someone would make a poster or handout focused on = that). The hours we need to man the table are: Wednesday, August 13, 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. Thursday, August 14, 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. Friday, August 15, 10 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. If you're interested and available, let me know all = your possible desired time slots (even a single two-hour shift would be = useful). Then I will finalize and circulate the schedule to all = involved. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B3A.46B75DB0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting Date: 25 Jun 2003 10:57:27 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B3A.DB943110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like Thursday, August 14, or Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, or later in the evening is fine by me. Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the agenda (ask people what they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not it. We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), or at a restaurant anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider other places. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B3A.DB943110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Irreantum meeting</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like = Thursday, August 14, or Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, = or later in the evening is fine by me. Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the = agenda (ask people what they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not = it. We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), or = at a restaurant anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider = other places. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B3A.DB943110-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Drama and our broader role Date: 25 Jun 2003 11:37:39 -0600 "Travis K. Manning" wrote: > We could have lunch somewhere in Sandy, near the LDSBA > convention, maybe at Larry Miller's place with the cliff jumpers and stuff, > never been. Doesn't D. Mike live in Sandy? I would not recommend Larry Miller's place for dinner. It does not have a reputation for great food. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford <jlangfor@pressenter.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 13:00:23 -0500 I will be in Utah July 17 through August 7 (either of those end dates I won't be available). Mostly based in Provo, though I'm also going down to St. George at some as-yet undetermined time (and probably to Cedar City to introduce my 14-year-old to Shakespeare). My main mission is to connect with family, but I'd enjoy meeting with people sometime during that time. It sounds like I won't be there for the LDSBA and Sunstone symposium time, so I'd miss the formal meeting held during that time. That's okay; I'm not currently on Irreantum staff, and really I think I'd have more fun taking part in a less formal brainstorming session. (I'll also try to have my review of Angels in America posted by the time I come out, so we can talk about whether that's something that's still wanted for Irreantum.) Given my timeframe, weekdays are better than weekends (because weekends are likely to be taken up by family). I can pretty easily get up to the Salt Lake area with directions. Let me know if anyone wants to do this, and we can talk about more specific times. I'm really interested in the future of Irreantum; it's just that due to family and personal circumstances, I really, really can't make any commitment to taking part on a more active editorial basis at this time. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 11:53:59 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B42.C1468350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's been a while since we had an AML-List lunch or dinner. Remember when we did that more often with Ben? So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. I could host it at my house if there's too many people for a restaurant (I'd bring in some Thai food or something). Or maybe someone else would want to host it. (But if we get 10 or less, a restaurant would be fine, says I. I remember both small groups and bigger ones--it's hard to predict.) -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:00 PM I will be in Utah July 17 through August 7 (either of those end dates I won't be available). Mostly based in Provo, though I'm also going down to St. George at some as-yet undetermined time (and probably to Cedar City to introduce my 14-year-old to Shakespeare). My main mission is to connect with family, but I'd enjoy meeting with people sometime during that time. It sounds like I won't be there for the LDSBA and Sunstone symposium time, so I'd miss the formal meeting held during that time. That's okay; I'm not currently on Irreantum staff, and really I think I'd have more fun taking part in a less formal brainstorming session. (I'll also try to have my review of Angels in America posted by the time I come out, so we can talk about whether that's something that's still wanted for Irreantum.) Given my timeframe, weekdays are better than weekends (because weekends are likely to be taken up by family). I can pretty easily get up to the Salt Lake area with directions. Let me know if anyone wants to do this, and we can talk about more specific times. I'm really interested in the future of Irreantum; it's just that due to family and personal circumstances, I really, really can't make any commitment to taking part on a more active editorial basis at this time. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B42.C1468350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> It's been a while since we had an AML-List lunch or = dinner. Remember when we did that more often with Ben? So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner = on AML-List. I could host it at my house if there's too many people for = a restaurant (I'd bring in some Thai food or something). Or maybe = someone else would want to host it. (But if we get 10 or less, a = restaurant would be fine, says I. I remember both small groups and = bigger ones--it's hard to predict.) -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Langford [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com">mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com</= A>] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:00 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? I will be in Utah July 17 through August 7 (either of = those end dates I won't be available). Mostly based in Provo, = though I'm also going down to St. George at some as-yet undetermined time (and = probably to Cedar City to introduce my 14-year-old to Shakespeare). My main mission is to connect with family, but I'd = enjoy meeting with people sometime during that time. It sounds = like I won't be there for the LDSBA and Sunstone symposium time, so I'd miss the = formal meeting held during that time. That's okay; I'm not = currently on Irreantum staff, and really I think I'd have more fun taking part in a = less formal brainstorming session. (I'll also try to have my review of = Angels in America posted by the time I come out, so we can talk about whether = that's something that's still wanted for Irreantum.) Given my timeframe, weekdays are better than weekends = (because weekends are likely to be taken up by family). I can pretty = easily get up to the Salt Lake area with directions. Let me know if anyone wants to do this, and we can = talk about more specific times. I'm really interested in the future of = Irreantum; it's just that due to family and personal circumstances, I really, = really can't make any commitment to taking part on a more active editorial = basis at this time. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B42.C1468350-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford <jlangfor@pressenter.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 15:38:38 -0500 Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) by my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth with anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list of those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since there's only a small overlap between the two groups. Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds like you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo. We certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 14:26:06 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B58.017BFE90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, that would be great to get together. You're probably right about larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes yield pleasures of their own. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) by my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth with anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list of those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since there's only a small overlap between the two groups. Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds like you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo. We certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B58.017BFE90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Yes, that would be great to get together. You're = probably right about larger unwieldy groups, although such events = sometimes yield pleasures of their own. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Langford [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com">mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com</= A>] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or = dinner on AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a = dinner prompted (in part) by my being in town. Last time, I wound up = feeling both exhausted and like I hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater = leisure and/or depth with anyone. Too big, too many people, too much = like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered = around the list of those currently acting as assistant moderators on = AML-List. But that wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss = Irreantum issues, since there's only a small overlap between the two = groups. Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your = house. It sounds like you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of = the time in Provo. We certainly ought to have some kind of informal = get-together, if you're willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for = it. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B58.017BFE90-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 15:02:54 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C33B2A.DB44F2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times?I propose we meet formally as an = Irreantum editorial cadre for a barbecue on Friday eve August 15, 2003. = Barbecue from 5 to 7 p.m., formal editorial meeting from 7 to 8 p.m. = I'll supply drinks, salad, and chips. You supply meat and dessert. If = you can't arrive until 7 p.m., there will be "shrimp on the barbie" and = you can always hang around afterward to chat. I'll put together the = agenda and organize the meeting. Bring families? I don't yet have = children, but it seems appropriate to bring wives (I'm bringing both of = mine!) and children along, if we have an appropriate place for kids to = congregate while we "talk amongst ourselves." I may assign persons individual issues or points of information to = prepare in advance. PROPOSED AGENDA: (1) financial status (2) Irreantum vision past/present/future (3) contests (4) ideas for increasing circulation, strategies for growing Irreantum = "grassroots style," tapping into Mormon-affiliated colleges (5) discussion of mag layout and content--adequate, or consider changes? (6) any misc. editorial concerns, submitted *beforehand* (if possible) = so we all have time to stew over issues in advance, so we can do this = meeting in one hour. =20 I'm warning you, I'm not fond of long meetings, so I can keep us = precisely focused and on time. Done at 8 p.m., at least the official = meeting anyway. Don't hate me for being mean. Let me know your ideas for additional points of discussion, or to remove = any herein listed. Also, we need a place to house this party, = preferably someone's home as a restaurant may not be convenient for = children, parks too informal. I may have dibs on my in-laws' large = family-friendly cabin in Cottonwood Canyon that weekend, so I can check = that too, as it's a fun place for many to gather. What say ye? =20 Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Yes, that would be great to get together. You're probably right about = larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes yield pleasures = of their own. -----Original Message-----=20 From: Jonathan Langford [mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM=20 To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times?=20 Chris wrote:=20 >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List.=20 Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) = by=20 my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and = like I=20 hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth = with=20 anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an = event.=20 I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list = of=20 those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that=20 wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, = since=20 there's only a small overlap between the two groups.=20 Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds = like=20 you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo. = We=20 certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're=20 willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it.=20 Jonathan=20 jlangfor@pressenter.com=20 --=20 Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com>=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C33B2A.DB44F2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times?</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>I propose we meet formally as an Irreantum editorial = cadre for=20 a barbecue on Friday eve August 15, 2003. Barbecue from 5 to 7 = p.m.,=20 formal editorial meeting from 7 to 8 p.m. I'll supply drinks, = salad, and=20 chips. You supply meat and dessert. If you can't arrive = until 7=20 p.m., there will be "shrimp on the barbie" and you can always hang = around=20 afterward to chat. I'll put together the agenda and organize the=20 meeting. Bring families? I don't yet have children, but it = seems=20 appropriate to bring wives (I'm bringing both of mine!) and children = along, if=20 we have an appropriate place for kids to congregate while we "talk = amongst=20 ourselves."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I may assign persons individual issues or points of=20 information to prepare in advance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PROPOSED AGENDA:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(1) financial status</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(2) Irreantum vision past/present/future</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(3) contests</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(4) ideas for increasing circulation, strategies for growing = Irreantum=20 "grassroots style," tapping into Mormon-affiliated colleges</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(5) discussion of mag layout and content--adequate, or consider=20 changes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(6) any misc. editorial concerns, submitted=20 *beforehand* (if possible) so we all have time to stew over issues = in=20 advance, so we can do this meeting in one hour. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm warning you, I'm not fond of long meetings, so I can keep us = precisely=20 focused and on time. Done at 8 p.m., at least the official meeting = anyway. Don't hate me for being mean.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me know your ideas for additional points of = discussion, or=20 to remove any herein listed. Also, we need a place to house this = party,=20 preferably someone's home as a restaurant may not be convenient for = children,=20 parks too informal. I may have dibs on my in-laws' large = family-friendly=20 cabin in Cottonwood Canyon that weekend, so I can check that too, as = it's a fun=20 place for many to gather.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What say ye? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 = 1:26=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: = meeting=20 times?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> Yes, that would be great to get together. You're = probably=20 right about larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes = yield=20 pleasures of their own. -----Original Message----- From:=20 Jonathan Langford [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com">mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com</A= >]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM = <FONT=20 size=3D2>To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com">irreantum-ed@lists.xmissi= on.com</A>=20 Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? = Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or = dinner on=20 AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a = dinner=20 prompted (in part) by my being in = town. Last=20 time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I <FONT=20 size=3D2>hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or = depth=20 with anyone. Too big, too many people, = too much=20 like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered = around=20 the list of those currently acting as = assistant=20 moderators on AML-List. But that wouldn't be a=20 terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since = <FONT=20 size=3D2>there's only a small overlap between the two groups. = Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your = house. =20 It sounds like you're only a few blocks from = where=20 I'll be most of the time in Provo. We certainly=20 ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're = <FONT=20 size=3D2>willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. = Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's = Discussion List=20 <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> = </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C33B2A.DB44F2E0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 18:11:31 -0600 --============_-1155536197==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I would rather not bring children, as I know mine would be into something they shouldn't no matter where we meet and we females are usually the ones to have to chase down the perpetrators. And both Scott and I are on the staff. It may not be a problem for anyone else, but that's my preference. I'd volunteer our house, but I bet it is too far south for most folks. Santaquin is the last civilization before leaving Utah County and heading to Nephi. But if there's nowhere else, you're welcome here. (But we don't have a barbecue.) Marny At 3:02 PM -0700 6/25/03, Travis K. Manning wrote: >I propose we meet formally as an Irreantum editorial cadre for a >barbecue on Friday eve August 15, 2003. Barbecue from 5 to 7 p.m., >formal editorial meeting from 7 to 8 p.m. I'll supply drinks, >salad, and chips. You supply meat and dessert. If you can't arrive >until 7 p.m., there will be "shrimp on the barbie" and you can >always hang around afterward to chat. I'll put together the agenda >and organize the meeting. Bring families? I don't yet have >children, but it seems appropriate to bring wives (I'm bringing both >of mine!) and children along, if we have an appropriate place for >kids to congregate while we "talk amongst ourselves." > >I may assign persons individual issues or points of information to >prepare in advance. > >PROPOSED AGENDA: > >(1) financial status > >(2) Irreantum vision past/present/future > >(3) contests > >(4) ideas for increasing circulation, strategies for growing >Irreantum "grassroots style," tapping into Mormon-affiliated colleges > >(5) discussion of mag layout and content--adequate, or consider changes? > >(6) any misc. editorial concerns, submitted *beforehand* (if >possible) so we all have time to stew over issues in advance, so we >can do this meeting in one hour. > >I'm warning you, I'm not fond of long meetings, so I can keep us >precisely focused and on time. Done at 8 p.m., at least the >official meeting anyway. Don't hate me for being mean. > >Let me know your ideas for additional points of discussion, or to >remove any herein listed. Also, we need a place to house this >party, preferably someone's home as a restaurant may not be >convenient for children, parks too informal. I may have dibs on my >in-laws' large family-friendly cabin in Cottonwood Canyon that >weekend, so I can check that too, as it's a fun place for many to >gather. > >What say ye? > >Travis > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com>Christopher Bigelow >To: ><mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'>'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission >.com' >Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:26 PM >Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? > >Yes, that would be great to get together. You're probably right >about larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes yield >pleasures of their own. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jonathan Langford >[<mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com>mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com] >Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM >To: <mailto:irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com>irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com >Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? > > >Chris wrote: > > >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. > >Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) by >my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I >hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth with >anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an event. > >I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list of >those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that >wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since >there's only a small overlap between the two groups. > >Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds like >you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo. We >certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're >willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. > >Jonathan > >jlangfor@pressenter.com > > > >-- >Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> --============_-1155536197==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would rather not bring children, as I know mine would be into something they shouldn't no matter where we meet and we females are usually the ones to have to chase down the perpetrators. And both Scott and I are on the staff. It may not be a problem for anyone else, but that's my preference. I'd volunteer our house, but I bet it is too far south for most folks. Santaquin is the last civilization before leaving Utah County and heading to Nephi. But if there's nowhere else, you're welcome here. (But we don't have a barbecue.) Marny At 3:02 PM -0700 6/25/03, Travis K. Manning wrote: <excerpt>I propose we meet formally as an Irreantum editorial cadre for a barbecue on Friday eve August 15, 2003. Barbecue from 5 to 7 p.m., formal editorial meeting from 7 to 8 p.m. I'll supply drinks, salad, and chips. You supply meat and dessert. If you can't arrive until 7 p.m., there will be "shrimp on the barbie" and you can always hang around afterward to chat. I'll put together the agenda and organize the meeting. Bring families? I don't yet have children, but it seems appropriate to bring wives (I'm bringing both of mine!) and children along, if we have an appropriate place for kids to congregate while we "talk amongst ourselves." =20 I may assign persons individual issues or points of information to prepare in advance. =20 PROPOSED AGENDA: =20 (1) financial status =20 (2) Irreantum vision past/present/future =20 (3) contests =20 (4) ideas for increasing circulation, strategies for growing Irreantum "grassroots style," tapping into Mormon-affiliated colleges =20 (5) discussion of mag layout and content--adequate, or consider changes? =20 (6) any misc. editorial concerns, submitted *beforehand* (if possible) so we all have time to stew over issues in advance, so we can do this meeting in one hour.=20 =20 I'm warning you, I'm not fond of long meetings, so I can keep us precisely focused and on time. Done at 8 p.m., at least the official meeting anyway. Don't hate me for being mean. =20 Let me know your ideas for additional points of discussion, or to remove any herein listed. Also, we need a place to house this party, preferably someone's home as a restaurant may not be convenient for children, parks too informal. I may have dibs on my in-laws' large family-friendly cabin in Cottonwood Canyon that weekend, so I can check that too, as it's a fun place for many to gather. =20 What say ye?=20 =20 Travis <paraindent><param>right,left</param>----- Original Message ----- <bold>From: </bold><<mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com>Christopher Bigelow <bold>To: </bold><<mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'>'irreantum-ed@lists.xmissi= on.com' <bold>Sent:</bold> Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:26 PM <bold>Subject:</bold> RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Yes, that would be great to get together. You're probably right about larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes yield pleasures of their own. -----Original Message----- =46rom: Jonathan Langford [<<mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com>mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM <<mailto:irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com>irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) by my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth with anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list of those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since there's only a small overlap between the two groups. Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds like you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo.=20 We certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <<irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </paraindent></excerpt> --============_-1155536197==_ma============-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 17:55:34 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B75.44AB1120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My house near the Provo temple is available, but we don't have a BBQ. Lookin' forward to it! -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:12 PM I would rather not bring children, as I know mine would be into something they shouldn't no matter where we meet and we females are usually the ones to have to chase down the perpetrators. And both Scott and I are on the staff. It may not be a problem for anyone else, but that's my preference. I'd volunteer our house, but I bet it is too far south for most folks. Santaquin is the last civilization before leaving Utah County and heading to Nephi. But if there's nowhere else, you're welcome here. (But we don't have a barbecue.) Marny At 3:02 PM -0700 6/25/03, Travis K. Manning wrote: I propose we meet formally as an Irreantum editorial cadre for a barbecue on Friday eve August 15, 2003. Barbecue from 5 to 7 p.m., formal editorial meeting from 7 to 8 p.m. I'll supply drinks, salad, and chips. You supply meat and dessert. If you can't arrive until 7 p.m., there will be "shrimp on the barbie" and you can always hang around afterward to chat. I'll put together the agenda and organize the meeting. Bring families? I don't yet have children, but it seems appropriate to bring wives (I'm bringing both of mine!) and children along, if we have an appropriate place for kids to congregate while we "talk amongst ourselves." I may assign persons individual issues or points of information to prepare in advance. PROPOSED AGENDA: (1) financial status (2) Irreantum vision past/present/future (3) contests (4) ideas for increasing circulation, strategies for growing Irreantum "grassroots style," tapping into Mormon-affiliated colleges (5) discussion of mag layout and content--adequate, or consider changes? (6) any misc. editorial concerns, submitted *beforehand* (if possible) so we all have time to stew over issues in advance, so we can do this meeting in one hour. I'm warning you, I'm not fond of long meetings, so I can keep us precisely focused and on time. Done at 8 p.m., at least the official meeting anyway. Don't hate me for being mean. Let me know your ideas for additional points of discussion, or to remove any herein listed. Also, we need a place to house this party, preferably someone's home as a restaurant may not be convenient for children, parks too informal. I may have dibs on my in-laws' large family-friendly cabin in Cottonwood Canyon that weekend, so I can check that too, as it's a fun place for many to gather. What say ye? Travis ----- Original Message ----- <mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'>'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com' Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:26 PM Yes, that would be great to get together. You're probably right about larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes yield pleasures of their own. -----Original Message----- [<mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com>mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) by my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth with anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list of those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since there's only a small overlap between the two groups. Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds like you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo. We certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B75.44AB1120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>My house near the Provo temple is available, but we don't have a BBQ.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lookin' forward to it!</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Marny Parkin [mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:12 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? </DIV> I would rather not bring children, as I know mine would be into something they shouldn't no matter where we meet and we females are usually the ones to have to chase down the perpetrators. And both Scott and I are on the staff. It may not be a problem for anyone else, but that's my preference. I'd volunteer our house, but I bet it is too far south for most folks. Santaquin is the last civilization before leaving Utah County and heading to Nephi. But if there's nowhere else, you're welcome here. (But we don't have a barbecue.) Marny At 3:02 PM -0700 6/25/03, Travis K. Manning wrote: I propose we meet formally as an Irreantum editorial cadre for a barbecue on Friday eve August 15, 2003. Barbecue from 5 to 7 p.m., formal editorial meeting from 7 to 8 p.m. I'll supply drinks, salad, and chips. You supply meat and dessert. If you can't arrive until 7 p.m., there will be "shrimp on the barbie" and you can always hang around afterward to chat. I'll put together the agenda and organize the meeting. Bring families? I don't yet have children, but it seems appropriate to bring wives (I'm bringing both of mine!) and children along, if we have an appropriate place for kids to congregate while we "talk amongst ourselves." I may assign persons individual issues or points of information to prepare in advance. PROPOSED AGENDA: (1) financial status (2) Irreantum vision past/present/future (3) contests (4) ideas for increasing circulation, strategies for growing Irreantum "grassroots style," tapping into Mormon-affiliated colleges (5) discussion of mag layout and content--adequate, or consider changes? (6) any misc. editorial concerns, submitted *beforehand* (if possible) so we all have time to stew over issues in advance, so we can do this meeting in one hour. I'm warning you, I'm not fond of long meetings, so I can keep us precisely focused and on time. Done at 8 p.m., at least the official meeting anyway. Don't hate me for being mean. Let me know your ideas for additional points of discussion, or to remove any herein listed. Also, we need a place to house this party, preferably someone's home as a restaurant may not be convenient for children, parks too informal. I may have dibs on my in-laws' large family-friendly cabin in Cottonwood Canyon that weekend, so I can check that too, as it's a fun place for many to gather. What say ye? Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: <mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com>Christopher Bigelow To: <mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'>'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com' Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Yes, that would be great to get together. You're probably right about larger unwieldy groups, although such events sometimes yield pleasures of their own. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Langford [<mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com>mailto:jlangfor@pressenter.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:39 PM To: <mailto:irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com>irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Chris wrote: >So Jonathan, I suggest you propose a lunch or dinner on AML-List. Perhaps. I've only been twice, both times a dinner prompted (in part) by my being in town. Last time, I wound up feeling both exhausted and like I hadn't really had a chance to talk at greater leisure and/or depth with anyone. Too big, too many people, too much like being the host of an event. I may decide to have a smaller get-together centered around the list of those currently acting as assistant moderators on AML-List. But that wouldn't be a terribly good occasion to discuss Irreantum issues, since there's only a small overlap between the two groups. Thanks, though, for the offer of hosting at your house. It sounds like you're only a few blocks from where I'll be most of the time in Provo. We certainly ought to have some kind of informal get-together, if you're willing, no matter what excuse we come up with for it. Jonathan jlangfor@pressenter.com -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33B75.44AB1120-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Re: meeting times? Date: 25 Jun 2003 23:09:59 -0600 Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here it is: http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html None of the links work at this point, so don't bother clicking around (you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is strictly an attempt at designing the front page. I'd love to hear your comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or confusing? Fire away, Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup Date: 25 Jun 2003 23:11:57 -0600 [I apologize for sending this twice, but I forgot to update my subject line...] Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here it is: http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html None of the links work at this point, so don't bother clicking around (you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is strictly an attempt at designing the front page. I'd love to hear your comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or confusing? Fire away, Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup Date: 26 Jun 2003 09:06:45 -0600 Looks good. A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. And you can copy the AML logo of the web site to put in the upper right corner (or somewhere else, but I think we ought to have a stronger obvious tie to the main AML web site). I'm not sure what we'd put in the right text column, though. On a larger content note: We have not asked permission from anyone to post their articles/stories/etc. electronically. We MUST as specific permission to do this. (Maybe we need to have a publication contract now.) Having snippets to entice like Quinn has done is fine. Having a pdf of the ENTIRE magazine for sale/download is fine (we hold the copyright for that). But posting individual articles/stories is not, unless we get permission. And we ought to let the authors know that entire issues will be available electronically; electronic rights are a big deal to many authors. I also think we should charge for the pdf of the issue. Not much, maybe a buck, but don't give it away for free. Especially if you are trying to sell the current issue. We may want to consider electronic prepublication sales (for the time between when the proofreading changes are done and the issue gets put in the mail), although that works better for books that subscription items. Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. Marny At 11:11 PM -0600 6/25/03, Quinn Warnick wrote: >Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I >couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here >it is: > >http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html > >None of the links work at this point, so don't bother clicking around >(you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is strictly an attempt at >designing the front page. > >I'd love to hear your comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I >forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or confusing? > >Fire away, > >Quinn > > >-- >Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup Date: 26 Jun 2003 11:45:18 -0700 Awesome!!!! You de man, Quinn. The Masthead is a wee naked. The "Online" in white is hard to read, unless it had a lightly-colored background, e.g. We need a link to the Mormon Lit database: <http:// MormonLit.lib.byu.edu> and perhaps a few links to <aml-online.org>, that is links to our already established book reviews, other Mormon magazines and research connections, and to the Table of Contents page that includes the contents of past issues. As we put this together, we ought to consider putting more links to examples of texts from past issues. Chris has most of the issues still on disk, I would imagine, so perhaps we could utilize those to beef it up, to give Irreantum a substantive past, which it has, nearing its five-year mark now. Also, the side columns, you could perhaps make one of them a box with a little color to divide up some of the white space. Great start! I don't think you're jumping the gun at all. You're getting the job done. The AML Board can't refuse us now. Travis ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:11 PM > [I apologize for sending this twice, but I forgot to update my subject > line...] > > Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I > couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here > it is: > > http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html > > None of the links work at this point, so don't bother clicking around > (you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is strictly an attempt at > designing the front page. > > I'd love to hear your comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I > forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or confusing? > > Fire away, > > Quinn > > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup Date: 26 Jun 2003 11:48:35 -0700 I hadn't thought we would sell entire PDF versions, though we easily could, as Chris probably has most of those. My thought was just to have some of the items mentioned in my just previous email. Would anyone want a PDF of our mag? Hmm. Travis ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:06 AM > Looks good. A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left > margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. And you can copy the AML logo of > the web site to put in the upper right corner (or somewhere else, but > I think we ought to have a stronger obvious tie to the main AML web > site). I'm not sure what we'd put in the right text column, though. > > On a larger content note: We have not asked permission from anyone to > post their articles/stories/etc. electronically. We MUST as specific > permission to do this. (Maybe we need to have a publication contract > now.) Having snippets to entice like Quinn has done is fine. Having a > pdf of the ENTIRE magazine for sale/download is fine (we hold the > copyright for that). But posting individual articles/stories is not, > unless we get permission. And we ought to let the authors know that > entire issues will be available electronically; electronic rights are > a big deal to many authors. > > I also think we should charge for the pdf of the issue. Not much, > maybe a buck, but don't give it away for free. Especially if you are > trying to sell the current issue. We may want to consider electronic > prepublication sales (for the time between when the proofreading > changes are done and the issue gets put in the mail), although that > works better for books that subscription items. > > Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. > > Marny > > > At 11:11 PM -0600 6/25/03, Quinn Warnick wrote: > >Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I > >couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here > >it is: > > > >http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html > > > >None of the links work at this point, so don't bother clicking around > >(you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is strictly an attempt at > >designing the front page. > > > >I'd love to hear your comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I > >forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or confusing? > > > >Fire away, > > > >Quinn > > > > > >-- > >Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup Date: 26 Jun 2003 16:41:49 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33C34.218A65F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think this is a great start. I forwarded it to the AML board, and hopefully a few people will have looked at it before we meet tonight at 7:00. I agree that we need to proceed with caution with regards to permissions, etc. But I think it would be great to keep as much of our content alive online as possible. I used to feel more proprietary about making sure people paid something for Irreantum to help cover costs, but now I'm thinking that as long as we maintain a minimum core of subscribers to pay for a paper magazine, the more eyeballs we can get through whatever means, the better. I wouldn't want to give up the satisfaction of producing a paper magazine, but let's also push it as far electronically as we can. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:12 PM [I apologize for sending this twice, but I forgot to update my subject line...] Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here it is: http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html None of the links work at this point, so don't bother clicking around (you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is strictly an attempt at designing the front page. I'd love to hear your comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or confusing? Fire away, Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33C34.218A65F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> I think this is a great start. I forwarded it to the = AML board, and hopefully a few people will have looked at it before we = meet tonight at 7:00. I agree that we need to proceed with caution with = regards to permissions, etc. But I think it would be great to keep as = much of our content alive online as possible. I used to feel more proprietary about making sure = people paid something for Irreantum to help cover costs, but now I'm = thinking that as long as we maintain a minimum core of subscribers to = pay for a paper magazine, the more eyeballs we can get through whatever = means, the better. I wouldn't want to give up the satisfaction of = producing a paper magazine, but let's also push it as far = electronically as we can. -----Original Message----- From: Quinn Warnick [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:quinn@whiteshoe.org">mailto:quinn@whiteshoe.org</A>]</FON= T> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:12 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum.org mockup [I apologize for sending this twice, but I forgot to = update my subject line...] Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the = bee in my bonnet, I couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the = irreantum.org site ready. Here it is: <A = HREF=3D"http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.whiteshoe.org/irreantum/index.html</A></FON= T> None of the links work at this point, so don't bother = clicking around (you'll just get a bizarre 404 page). This is = strictly an attempt at designing the front page. I'd love to hear your = comments/criticisms/suggestions/etc... What did I forget? What did I botch? Is the design intuitive or = confusing? Fire away, Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33C34.218A65F0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum website Date: 27 Jun 2003 11:00:09 -0600 Quinn Warnick wrote: > > Well, I may be jumping the gun, but once I got the bee in my bonnet, I > couldn't quit until I had a prototype of the irreantum.org site ready. Here > it is: <div id="right"> Is this an MS Internet Explorer construct? It doesn't work with my Netscape. The columns are all superimposed on each other. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Board response to Irreantum.org Date: 27 Jun 2003 11:27:16 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CD1.5AAB8F10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey, the board likes this idea well enough to encourage Quinn to go forward with a full-blown proposed site. However, they did not say to go live with it until they can review it again. I think they are mainly concerned to find out how difficult and complex it turns out to be to compile the material. They don't want to publicize a new website and then have it not live up to expectations or be updated regularly. Also, they reiterated that permissions/rights definitely need to be handled correctly. So, Quinn, let me know what you need from me. I can send you PDFs of any Irreantum issues for you to copy and paste from. I also have contact info for nearly all the authors. And you can ask any of us for help with specific tasks. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CD1.5AAB8F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Board response to Irreantum.org</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Hey, the board likes this idea well enough to = encourage Quinn to go forward with a full-blown proposed site. However, they did not say to go live with it until = they can review it again. I think they are mainly concerned to find out = how difficult and complex it turns out to be to compile the material. = They don't want to publicize a new website and then have it not live up = to expectations or be updated regularly. Also, they reiterated that permissions/rights = definitely need to be handled correctly. So, Quinn, let me know what you need from me. I can = send you PDFs of any Irreantum issues for you to copy and paste from. I = also have contact info for nearly all the authors. And you can ask any = of us for help with specific tasks. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CD1.5AAB8F10-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: [irr-ed] Board response to Irreantum.org Date: 27 Jun 2003 11:42:39 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CD3.80F60A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey, the board likes this idea well enough to encourage Quinn to go forward with a full-blown proposed site. However, they did not say to go live with it until they can review it again. I think they are mainly concerned to find out how difficult and complex it turns out to be to compile the material. They don't want to publicize a new website and then have it not live up to expectations or be updated regularly. Also, they reiterated that permissions/rights definitely need to be handled correctly. So, Quinn, let me know what you need from me. I can send you PDFs of any Irreantum issues for you to copy and paste from. I also have contact info for nearly all the authors. And you can ask any of us for help with specific tasks. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CD3.80F60A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Board response to Irreantum.org</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Hey, the board likes this idea well enough to = encourage Quinn to go forward with a full-blown proposed site. However, they did not say to go live with it until = they can review it again. I think they are mainly concerned to find out = how difficult and complex it turns out to be to compile the material. = They don't want to publicize a new website and then have it not live up = to expectations or be updated regularly. Also, they reiterated that permissions/rights = definitely need to be handled correctly. So, Quinn, let me know what you need from me. I can = send you PDFs of any Irreantum issues for you to copy and paste from. I = also have contact info for nearly all the authors. And you can ask any = of us for help with specific tasks. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CD3.80F60A40-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum website Date: 27 Jun 2003 16:40:15 -0400 I'm using this email to respond to big-picture issues about the proposed site. I'll send another one with my responses to specific design critiques of the mock-up. Chris Bigelow wrote: | Hey, the board likes this idea well enough to encourage Quinn to go forward | with a full-blown proposed site. Great! I'll create a more complete mockup over the weekend and post it on this list for further comments and criticisms. Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to evaluate the site and respond. Chris wrote: | I think they are mainly concerned to find out how difficult and complex it | turns out to be to compile the material. They don't want to publicize a new | website and then have it not live up to expectations or be updated | regularly. I understand their concerns completely. But I really think the design for the site lends itself to having sections that are updated quarterly (with the release of each new issue), as well as sections that are updated daily/weekly/monthly, depending on how much people want to get involved. At first, I envision asking people to send me links to news/reviews/announcements/etc., which I will update the site with. But once the system is in place and working well, I'd like to extend posting privileges to the entire editorial board and even the AML board, if they're interested. Chris reiterated the permissions thing, based on Marny's comments: | On a larger content note: We have not asked permission from anyone to | post their articles/stories/etc. electronically. We MUST as specific | permission to do this. [snip] Electronic rights are | a big deal to many authors. I agree, and I only used the snippets I did because I wanted the people on this (relatively small) list to see what I had in mind. Speaking as the new fiction editor, I've never seen a permission form for authors to sign. Since we do almost everything via email, how have we gone about getting permissions in the past? And can we change the permissions form to include the possibility that some or all of the published work will be available online? I think most people we publish would be fine with this, as long as they knew in advance. And for those who aren't OK with it, we don't have to put their stuff online. Again, I don't think the site will have 100% of the printed material available. As for authors who are published in our back issues, we will definitely need to inform them of our desire to put their work online. Maybe Chris can post the tables of contents for the past several issues and the editorial board members can pick a piece or two from each issue in their genre that they'd like to seee on the website. If each of us can contact our people individually to get clearance, it will go much faster. Again, do we have specific legalese for this, or do we need someone to craft some? On the PDF issue, I think offering the PDF file for sale is an interesting idea, but it isn't what I had in mind for the site. At the same time, I definitely think it's worth discussing. The profit margin on PDF files is 100% (minus PayPal commission). The downside is that once the file is emailed to someone, they can pass it along to anyone they want. If we're OK with having the magazine out there (and if we trust our readers to not give it out for free), then I think it might be a good idea. Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum website Date: 27 Jun 2003 14:53:13 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CEE.1FE525E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" <<< Speaking as the new fiction editor, I've never seen a permission form for authors to sign. Since we do almost everything via email, how have we gone about getting permissions in the past?>>> We've done nothing centralized or official. <<<And can we change the permissions form to include the possibility that some or all of the published work will be available online? I think most people we publish would be fine with this, as long as they knew in advance. And for those who aren't OK with it, we don't have to put their stuff online. Again, I don't think the site will have 100% of the printed material available. >>> Permissions form? We've just done stuff informally via e-mail. So who wants to write an Irreantum permission form? It's probably time we professionalize ourselves to that degree. I remember one at the Ensign but can't remember what it said. <<< As for authors who are published in our back issues, we will definitely need to inform them of our desire to put their work online. Maybe Chris can post the tables of contents for the past several issues and the editorial board members can pick a piece or two from each issue in their genre that they'd like to seee on the website. >>> Can you just check your printed copies? Or let me know what specific issue you need the ToC posted for. (They're in Mac Quark files, which I don't have easy access to but can get if needed.) But I can certainly get full text from Quark files once a particular piece is identified and OKed for us to post. <<< If each of us can contact our people individually to get clearance, it will go much faster. Again, do we have specific legalese for this, or do we need someone to craft some?>>> I can provide contact info for most all the authors. I'm not sure about the legalese. Marny or someone, can you help? <<< On the PDF issue, I think offering the PDF file for sale is an interesting idea, but it isn't what I had in mind for the site. At the same time, I definitely think it's worth discussing. The profit margin on PDF files is 100% (minus PayPal commission). The downside is that once the file is emailed to someone, they can pass it along to anyone they want. If we're OK with having the magazine out there (and if we trust our readers to not give it out for free), then I think it might be a good idea. >>> I'm in favor of pushing our material as far out there as it will go. I would support either selling or giving away PDFs of full issues, whatever you want to experiment with. The only thing is that if print subscriptions started to drop, I would want to curtail any free distribution. But as long as print subs stay level or rise, I don't care if we give away 1,000 free PDFs (actually, that would be great!). The more eyeballs on our stuff, the better--it all works to the benefit of Irreantum, the AML, and Mormon lit. Let me know if you want any of our Paypal account info to build any payment links to anything. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CEE.1FE525E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum website</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <<< Speaking as the new fiction editor, I've never seen a permission form = for authors to sign. Since we do almost everything via email, how have we gone = about getting permissions in the past?>>> We've done nothing centralized or official. <<<And can we change the permissions form to = include the possibility that some or all of the published = work will be available online? I think most people we publish would be fine = with this, as long as they knew in advance. And for those who aren't OK = with it, we don't have to put their stuff online. Again, I don't think the = site will have 100% of the printed material available. >>> Permissions form? We've just done stuff informally = via e-mail. So who wants to write an Irreantum permission form? = It's probably time we professionalize ourselves to that degree. I = remember one at the Ensign but can't remember what it said. <<< As for authors who are published in our back issues, = we will definitely need to inform them of our desire to put their work = online. Maybe Chris can post the tables of contents for the past several issues = and the editorial board members can pick a piece or two from each issue in = their genre that they'd like to seee on the website. >>> Can you just check your printed copies? Or let me = know what specific issue you need the ToC posted for. (They're in Mac = Quark files, which I don't have easy access to but can get if = needed.) But I can certainly get full text from Quark files = once a particular piece is identified and OKed for us to post. <<< If each of us can contact our people individually to get clearance, it will go much = faster. Again, do we have specific legalese for this, or do we need someone to = craft some?>>> I can provide contact info for most all the authors. = I'm not sure about the legalese. Marny or someone, can you help? <<< On the PDF issue, I think offering the PDF file for = sale is an interesting idea, but it isn't what I had in mind for the site. = At the same time, I definitely think it's worth discussing. The profit = margin on PDF files is 100% (minus PayPal commission). The downside is that = once the file is emailed to someone, they can pass it along to anyone = they want. If we're OK with having the magazine out there (and if we trust = our readers to not give it out for free), then I think it might be a good = idea. >>> I'm in favor of pushing our material as far out there = as it will go. I would support either selling or giving away PDFs of = full issues, whatever you want to experiment with. The only thing is = that if print subscriptions started to drop, I would want to curtail = any free distribution. But as long as print subs stay level or rise, I = don't care if we give away 1,000 free PDFs (actually, that would be = great!). The more eyeballs on our stuff, the better--it all works to = the benefit of Irreantum, the AML, and Mormon lit. Let me know if you want any of our Paypal account = info to build any payment links to anything. </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33CEE.1FE525E0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Parkin" <scottparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum website Date: 27 Jun 2003 15:50:32 -0600 D. Michael Martindale asked: > <div id="right"> > > Is this an MS Internet Explorer construct? It doesn't work with my > Netscape. The columns are all superimposed on each other. That's plain old HTML. What Netscape appears to be choking on is the CSS information it references. Which shouldn't be happening, at least not with a modern browser. What version of Netscape are you using? Anything version 6 or newer should work correctly. 4.x was iffy. At the risk of being annoying and pedantic, CSS (Cascading Style Sheet) technology is a standard of the World Wide Web Consortium and has been since 1998. It looks like Netscape is non-compliant with the approved standard and needs to update. Quinn didn't do anything radical with his style declarations (I looked), so the page should have rendered correctly on a modern, W3C-compliant browser. It does bring up a point, though. The page design relies heavily on CSS and any people who have older or non-compliant browsers will run into the problem D. Michael did. If at all possible we should either do some version checking (ugh) and redirect, or have some other graceful fail state for those users. Critique of the design in another post. Scott Parkin -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Parkin" <scottparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum website Date: 27 Jun 2003 15:58:01 -0600 I think it looks very, very nice and I love the structured implementation. It should make update relatively easy and could even foster an simple XML application for creating content. I really liked it. A lot. Still, I have do have a couple of personal reactions/suggestions: * Too pastel. I had a hard time seeing the pale headline and link colors against the shaded background. Then again, I'm mildly red/green color blind and that sort of thing happens a lot for me. * Could be more graphically interesting with logos and whatnot. Of course this was a quick design and there's plenty of opportunity to look at that sort of thing as it develops. * Headlines and links looked too similar. The colors were similar enough that I kept trying to click headlines (or at least hover over them and watch the colors change). Consider using a darker color for the headlines. * Too many horizontal lines for my tastes. It seemed a little too boxy at times. * I would have liked a little more distinctiveness among the three sections. Right now they all have nearly equal weight, so the center column content doesn't stand out as the focus of the page. I think you could reduce the point size on both of the sidebars and perhaps even narrow those margins just a tad to make the center column a bit more distinct and powerful. As I said, mostly little stuff. I really like the design, and I love the structure. I think there's still some room for tweaking, but I think it's mostly there as it is. Good stuff. Thanks for moving forward. Scott Parkin -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 13:50:38 -0400 [I wrote this email on Friday, but I made the mistake of attaching a screenshot of the website, and I don't think the server let it go through to the list. My apologies if you've already received this. With additions added below, it's quite long. Sorry about that.] This is the email where you all start to hate me for being a pretentious designer. But here goes nothing... Marny wrote: | A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left | margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Bring the text of the left margin WHERE by a half-dozen pixels? The site design is three columns, which are all contained in an invisible frame, which is centered on the screen. This format works best on multiple variations of screen-size. The distance from the left edge of your screen to where the text begins depends entirely on your screen resolution. If you have a high screen resolution, you'll see a lot of white space (actually, very light blue space, but we'll get to that later). If your resolution is lower, the design will fill the entire screen. If any of you have to scroll horizontally to see the whole front page, please let me know. If that's the case, I may have to resize the overall dimensions. Marny again: | And you can copy the AML logo of | the web site to put in the upper right corner (or somewhere else, but | I think we ought to have a stronger obvious tie to the main AML web | site). I agree -- I was waiting to get the original logo file to incorporate it into the look of the site, and it is now on its way, so the next beta version of the site will have a logo and a stronger visual tie to the AML. D. Michael wrote: | <div id="right"> | | Is this an MS Internet Explorer construct? It doesn't work with my | Netscape. The columns are all superimposed on each other. Ugh. I had a feeling we'd run into this. The site is designed using xhtml and CSS (cascading style sheets) positioning, rather than tables, which is what sites have been designed in since 1993 or so. In my opinion, CSS design is superior for a list of reasons too long to enumerate here, but I acknowledge the fact that about 2% of browsers aren't "standards compliant." The biggest offender is Netscape Navigator version 4 and lower. D. Mike, if you could let me know what browser you're using, it will let me know if I'm coding wrong or if you're using a browser that just won't read the site. I haven't done this part yet, but ultimately, the site will know if you're using an outdated browser and automatically strip all formatting out, leaving only the raw text. There will be a short notice on the site letting the visitors know that they're only getting the plain vanilla version, and if they want to upgrade their browser, they'll be able to enjoy the design of the site. The notice will contain a link to where they can go to find directions about upgrading (for free) to a standards-compliant browser. I know, I know, this is where people get angry that websites aren't serving everyone equally, and designers get labeled elitist and exclusionary. I'm not a designer by trade (only by hobby), so I understand those sentiments. But the reason I design my sites using CSS is because it helps them be MORE accessible -- for blind people who use braille browsers, for people who surf the web on their PDAs, etc... I hope this makes some sense. Travis wrote: | The Masthead is a wee naked. The "Online" in white is hard to read, unless | it had a lightly-colored background, e.g. The masthead will incorporate the AML logo as soon as I can redesign it. As for the "Online" being white on a light-blue background, that's intentional. I don't want the site to be different from the printed publication, but there needs to be a slight demarcation. Hence the dark "Irreantum" and the light "Online." Elsewhere on the site, we will just refer to it as "Irreantum" or "the online companion to Irreantum" or "Irreantum's online presence" or something like that. The Atlantic Monthly has created an enormous site that has a ton of online-only material, and they've called their site "Atlantic Unbound," which I really like. They've branded the name, and made it distinct from, yet still connected to the printed magazine. I don't think we'll have enough original material online to really brand "Irreantum Online," so the question becomes whether we leave the subtle "Online" there in the logo, or just take it out altogether. Travis again: | We need a link to the Mormon Lit | database: <http:// MormonLit.lib.byu.edu> and perhaps a few links to | <aml-online.org>, that is links to our already established book reviews, | other Mormon magazines and research connections, and to the Table of | Contents page that includes the contents of past issues. As we put this | together, we ought to consider putting more links to examples of texts from | past issues. I hope you'll all email me with links like this, and I'll create a sidebar panel with lots of links to consistently good sites. As for the tables of contents, my other email addressed that a bit, but I hope Chris will send me everything he's got, and I'll create a separate TOC page for each back issue. OK, that's it. Thanks to the three of you who sent specific feedback. Another version of this should be ready by Monday, and I'll send it out and ask for another round of comments. If you're on a Macintosh, I'd especially like to hear how it looks. UPDATE: Well, it's Monday, and I did get some work done on the site over the weekend. We now have a domain name: http://www.irreantum.org All you'll see at that address is a "Coming Soon" page. The version of the main page I'm working on is here: http://www.irreantum.org/testing.html Please don't send that link to anyone who isn't directly involved with Irreantum or the AML board. Once the design is finalized and the site is ready, we'll move it to the main address and make an announcement on AML-List. Some notes about the current design: After I wrote the above reply on Friday, Scott Parkin responded to D. Michael's concerns with a much better explanation of the W3C standards and a much better justification for using CSS positioning than I ever could have. Thanks for the affirmation, Scott. The site is still very much a prototype, so I don't think the code will "validate" as being 100% correct right now, but once the design is done, I'll get the bugs out. Scott had several other suggestions: | * Too pastel. I had a hard time seeing the pale headline and link colors against | the shaded background. Then again, I'm mildly red/green color blind and that | sort of thing happens a lot for me. I know the background color is a little too pastelly (is that a word?), but I didn't want a plain white background, and the logical choice was blue (Irreantum = many waters, water = blue). I know that there are a lot of color variations between monitors, so everyone might be seeing a slightly different thing. But I did add some more color over the weekend (darker blue title font and a burgundy accent color) that will hopefully tone down the pastel look. | * Headlines and links looked too similar. The colors were similar enough that I | kept trying to click headlines (or at least hover over them and watch the colors | change). Consider using a darker color for the headlines. Good point. I redid the headline graphics throughout the site, and I'm still deciding if I will make those graphics direct links or not. Your input is welcome on this matter -- should the word "SUBSCRIBE," for instance, be a link to the subscription page, even though there's a short explanation below that graphic with a link to said page? | * Too many horizontal lines for my tastes. It seemed a little too boxy at times. I'm working on eliminating some of these, and I think the addition of the AML logo on the left side breaks up the page a bit. | * I would have liked a little more distinctiveness among the three sections. | Right now they all have nearly equal weight, so the center column content | doesn't stand out as the focus of the page. I think you could reduce the point | size on both of the sidebars and perhaps even narrow those margins just a tad to | make the center column a bit more distinct and powerful. Done. The center column is now 20 pixels larger, and the margins between columns are slightly wider. More than that, though, I think the larger title graphic at the top of the center column draws attention to the featured section. Enough rambling for now. I know I'm boring some of you to death, but I'm hoping at least a few people on the list are interested in shaping the look and feel of the site, which is why I'm going into so much detail about little things. If you're having a hard time viewing the site on your browser, or just want to make sure we're looking at the same thing, here's a picture of what you should be seeing: http://www.irreantum.org/screenshot.jpg I'll be working on coding the templates for the site over the next week or two. I hope we'll have something ready to unveil within two or three weeks. I'm happy to listen to all the input you're willing to give. Thanks, Quinn -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:57:03 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C33EF6.570C32C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Irreantum meetingChris, Why don't we meet at your home for the Irreantum meetin'. Since you = don't have the barbecue, we could meet formally at 7 p.m. with desert = afterward (no dinner). I vote for banana splits!! I'll bring the = bananas! Chris, if you can bring icecream, since it would perhaps be = easier for you to transport such a meltable treat (many of us being on = the road and all), and each of us bring our favorite split topping....=20 I'll still compile the agenda and can shephard the meetin' (with ya'll's = assistance). Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:57 AM Subject: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like Thursday, August 14, = or Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, or later in the evening = is fine by me. Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the agenda (ask people = what they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not it. We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), or at a restaurant = anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider other places. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C33EF6.570C32C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Irreantum meeting</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Chris,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why don't we meet at your home for the Irreantum=20 meetin'. Since you don't have the barbecue, we could meet formally = at 7=20 p.m. with desert afterward (no dinner). I vote for banana = splits!! =20 I'll bring the bananas! Chris, if you can bring icecream, since it = would=20 perhaps be easier for you to transport such a meltable treat (many of us = being=20 on the road and all), and each of us bring our favorite split = topping....=20 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll still compile the agenda and can shephard the = meetin'=20 (with ya'll's assistance).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 = 9:57=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [irr-ed] Irreantum = meeting</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like = Thursday,=20 August 14, or Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, or later = in the=20 evening is fine by me. Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the = agenda (ask=20 people what they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not = it. We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), = or at a=20 restaurant anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider other=20 places.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C33EF6.570C32C0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 11:29:46 -0700 Quinn, I like the notion of titling the site "Irreantum Online," and now that I understand your rationale for fading the "Online" I think it will work. "Irreantum Online" is short and clarifying. I can compile links taken from <aml-online.org> and send them to you this week. I really like where this brainstorm is taking us! A greater web presence will hopefully provide us with more readership, for example, those who are researching Mormonism may happen to stumble across our site. I know nothing about how webpages work, or how search engines will classify keywords from our site, but if there's some code you need to enter in this regard....(sorry, I'm clueless, but want to learn e-publishing). Also, consider making article titles and author names in the center column a few picas larger for better visibility. I like the titles and names bolded and in caps as you have them, just make them slightly larger for readability (if it screws up the format, I guess don't do it if it's not worth the hassle; or, if it doesn't fit your design vision). The first page of the site does not fit on my screen with my Internet Explorer browser (4.0?)--however, I have purposefully amped up the pixels so all text is slightly larger for my poor eyesight; I would assume most web users *don't* do this so I'm in the minority. As long as enough important info is in the top half of the site so a person can tell what the site is at quick glance without reading the bottom half of the site it should be fine. (My opinion is biased here as I largely already know the site's content, intent, and purpose.) Quinn, the last thing to consider: perhaps we ought to also have a few *non-AML staffers* peruse your webpage design, as first-time readers will also be stumbling onto the site without a clue as to what the site is. Fresh eyes--office mates, friends, family even--could also provide valuable feedback on the site's functionality and design presentation. Travis ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:50 AM > [I wrote this email on Friday, but I made the mistake of attaching a > screenshot of the website, and I don't think the server let it go through to > the list. My apologies if you've already received this. With additions added > below, it's quite long. Sorry about that.] > > This is the email where you all start to hate me for being a pretentious > designer. But here goes nothing... > > Marny wrote: > > | A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left > | margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. > > I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Bring the text of the left margin > WHERE by a half-dozen pixels? The site design is three columns, which are > all contained in an invisible frame, which is centered on the screen. This > format works best on multiple variations of screen-size. The distance from > the left edge of your screen to where the text begins depends entirely on > your screen resolution. If you have a high screen resolution, you'll see a > lot of white space (actually, very light blue space, but we'll get to that > later). If your resolution is lower, the design will fill the entire screen. > If any of you have to scroll horizontally to see the whole front page, > please let me know. If that's the case, I may have to resize the overall > dimensions. > > Marny again: > > | And you can copy the AML logo of > | the web site to put in the upper right corner (or somewhere else, but > | I think we ought to have a stronger obvious tie to the main AML web > | site). > > I agree -- I was waiting to get the original logo file to incorporate it > into the look of the site, and it is now on its way, so the next beta > version of the site will have a logo and a stronger visual tie to the AML. > > D. Michael wrote: > > | <div id="right"> > | > | Is this an MS Internet Explorer construct? It doesn't work with my > | Netscape. The columns are all superimposed on each other. > > Ugh. I had a feeling we'd run into this. The site is designed using xhtml > and CSS (cascading style sheets) positioning, rather than tables, which is > what sites have been designed in since 1993 or so. In my opinion, CSS design > is superior for a list of reasons too long to enumerate here, but I > acknowledge the fact that about 2% of browsers aren't "standards compliant." > The biggest offender is Netscape Navigator version 4 and lower. D. Mike, if > you could let me know what browser you're using, it will let me know if I'm > coding wrong or if you're using a browser that just won't read the site. I > haven't done this part yet, but ultimately, the site will know if you're > using an outdated browser and automatically strip all formatting out, > leaving only the raw text. There will be a short notice on the site letting > the visitors know that they're only getting the plain vanilla version, and > if they want to upgrade their browser, they'll be able to enjoy the design > of the site. The notice will contain a link to where they can go to find > directions about upgrading (for free) to a standards-compliant browser. > > I know, I know, this is where people get angry that websites aren't serving > everyone equally, and designers get labeled elitist and exclusionary. I'm > not a designer by trade (only by hobby), so I understand those sentiments. > But the reason I design my sites using CSS is because it helps them be MORE > accessible -- for blind people who use braille browsers, for people who surf > the web on their PDAs, etc... I hope this makes some sense. > > Travis wrote: > > | The Masthead is a wee naked. The "Online" in white is hard to read, > unless > | it had a lightly-colored background, e.g. > > The masthead will incorporate the AML logo as soon as I can redesign it. As > for the "Online" being white on a light-blue background, that's intentional. > I don't want the site to be different from the printed publication, but > there needs to be a slight demarcation. Hence the dark "Irreantum" and the > light "Online." Elsewhere on the site, we will just refer to it as > "Irreantum" or "the online companion to Irreantum" or "Irreantum's online > presence" or something like that. The Atlantic Monthly has created an > enormous site that has a ton of online-only material, and they've called > their site "Atlantic Unbound," which I really like. They've branded the > name, and made it distinct from, yet still connected to the printed > magazine. I don't think we'll have enough original material online to really > brand "Irreantum Online," so the question becomes whether we leave the > subtle "Online" there in the logo, or just take it out altogether. > > Travis again: > > | We need a link to the Mormon Lit > | database: <http:// MormonLit.lib.byu.edu> and perhaps a few links to > | <aml-online.org>, that is links to our already established book reviews, > | other Mormon magazines and research connections, and to the Table of > | Contents page that includes the contents of past issues. As we put this > | together, we ought to consider putting more links to examples of texts > from > | past issues. > > I hope you'll all email me with links like this, and I'll create a sidebar > panel with lots of links to consistently good sites. As for the tables of > contents, my other email addressed that a bit, but I hope Chris will send me > everything he's got, and I'll create a separate TOC page for each back > issue. > > OK, that's it. Thanks to the three of you who sent specific feedback. > Another version of this should be ready by Monday, and I'll send it out and > ask for another round of comments. If you're on a Macintosh, I'd especially > like to hear how it looks. > > UPDATE: > > Well, it's Monday, and I did get some work done on the site over the > weekend. We now have a domain name: > > http://www.irreantum.org > > All you'll see at that address is a "Coming Soon" page. The version of the > main page I'm working on is here: > > http://www.irreantum.org/testing.html > > Please don't send that link to anyone who isn't directly involved with > Irreantum or the AML board. Once the design is finalized and the site is > ready, we'll move it to the main address and make an announcement on > AML-List. > > Some notes about the current design: > > After I wrote the above reply on Friday, Scott Parkin responded to D. > Michael's concerns with a much better explanation of the W3C standards and a > much better justification for using CSS positioning than I ever could have. > Thanks for the affirmation, Scott. The site is still very much a prototype, > so I don't think the code will "validate" as being 100% correct right now, > but once the design is done, I'll get the bugs out. > > Scott had several other suggestions: > > | * Too pastel. I had a hard time seeing the pale headline and link colors > against > | the shaded background. Then again, I'm mildly red/green color blind and > that > | sort of thing happens a lot for me. > > I know the background color is a little too pastelly (is that a word?), but > I didn't want a plain white background, and the logical choice was blue > (Irreantum = many waters, water = blue). I know that there are a lot of > color variations between monitors, so everyone might be seeing a slightly > different thing. But I did add some more color over the weekend (darker blue > title font and a burgundy accent color) that will hopefully tone down the > pastel look. > > | * Headlines and links looked too similar. The colors were similar enough > that I > | kept trying to click headlines (or at least hover over them and watch the > colors > | change). Consider using a darker color for the headlines. > > Good point. I redid the headline graphics throughout the site, and I'm still > deciding if I will make those graphics direct links or not. Your input is > welcome on this matter -- should the word "SUBSCRIBE," for instance, be a > link to the subscription page, even though there's a short explanation below > that graphic with a link to said page? > > | * Too many horizontal lines for my tastes. It seemed a little too boxy at > times. > > I'm working on eliminating some of these, and I think the addition of the > AML logo on the left side breaks up the page a bit. > > | * I would have liked a little more distinctiveness among the three > sections. > | Right now they all have nearly equal weight, so the center column content > | doesn't stand out as the focus of the page. I think you could reduce the > point > | size on both of the sidebars and perhaps even narrow those margins just a > tad to > | make the center column a bit more distinct and powerful. > > Done. The center column is now 20 pixels larger, and the margins between > columns are slightly wider. More than that, though, I think the larger title > graphic at the top of the center column draws attention to the featured > section. > > Enough rambling for now. I know I'm boring some of you to death, but I'm > hoping at least a few people on the list are interested in shaping the look > and feel of the site, which is why I'm going into so much detail about > little things. If you're having a hard time viewing the site on your > browser, or just want to make sure we're looking at the same thing, here's a > picture of what you should be seeing: > > http://www.irreantum.org/screenshot.jpg > > I'll be working on coding the templates for the site over the next week or > two. I hope we'll have something ready to unveil within two or three weeks. > I'm happy to listen to all the input you're willing to give. > > Thanks, > > Quinn > > > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 13:43:14 -0600 >Marny wrote: > >| A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left >| margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. Oops. I meant *off* the left margin. Apparently my window size was just small enough to make the left column mash against the left edge of the window. I'd like you to add some padding to the style of the left column so no matter what the window size, there is some white space on the left edge. I like what you've done with the "Irreantum Online" title. I think the all caps are fine for the short titles, but when the titles get longer, like the title of Melody's essay, they are much harder to read. I suggest leaving "interview" or "essay" in caps, but using initial caps for the rest of the title. If you want more visual difference between the headline and the body copy, try using a serifed font instead of all caps. And they could be a bit larger. Yes, make the titles like "subscribe" links. I'm not sure what type of links to outside sites we need--how redundant do we want to be to the AML site? I think doing a calendar that is better/more consistently updated would be good, since we publish news of the AML and a calendar fits in with that goal. Links to the Mormon Lit db certainly fit with our purpose, but do we want those links on the main page or on a secondary page? I still am unsure what we want to have in that right column. I think the rest looks very good. Thanks for doing the work. Chris, if you want to send me the Quark files I can do any exporting of text that we need so you don't have to worry about it. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 12:48:20 -0700 Quinn, I have perused several online literary mags for ideas regarding Irreantum Online. Check out the following few: African American Review: http://aar.slu.edu/ I like their "Announcements" section with its Special Events, Call for Papers, and Other Announcements headings. We could cross-advertise AML events, along with calls for papers for various conferences with an interest in Mormon lit. We could also include an info button to Advertise (with Irreantum Online). [I look forward to utilizing an email address with Irreantum in it.] American Poetry Review: http://www.aprweb.org/ I like the idea of having a button for History, Irreantum (and Irreantum Online) history. We could have a button connecting readership to Contests! (What, the annual fiction contest, and the Marilyn Brown novel award; e.g.). We could have buttons for Links and News, connections to Mormon lit. and news links that is. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:50 AM > [I wrote this email on Friday, but I made the mistake of attaching a > screenshot of the website, and I don't think the server let it go through to > the list. My apologies if you've already received this. With additions added > below, it's quite long. Sorry about that.] > > This is the email where you all start to hate me for being a pretentious > designer. But here goes nothing... > > Marny wrote: > > | A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left > | margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. > > I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Bring the text of the left margin > WHERE by a half-dozen pixels? The site design is three columns, which are > all contained in an invisible frame, which is centered on the screen. This > format works best on multiple variations of screen-size. The distance from > the left edge of your screen to where the text begins depends entirely on > your screen resolution. If you have a high screen resolution, you'll see a > lot of white space (actually, very light blue space, but we'll get to that > later). If your resolution is lower, the design will fill the entire screen. > If any of you have to scroll horizontally to see the whole front page, > please let me know. If that's the case, I may have to resize the overall > dimensions. > > Marny again: > > | And you can copy the AML logo of > | the web site to put in the upper right corner (or somewhere else, but > | I think we ought to have a stronger obvious tie to the main AML web > | site). > > I agree -- I was waiting to get the original logo file to incorporate it > into the look of the site, and it is now on its way, so the next beta > version of the site will have a logo and a stronger visual tie to the AML. > > D. Michael wrote: > > | <div id="right"> > | > | Is this an MS Internet Explorer construct? It doesn't work with my > | Netscape. The columns are all superimposed on each other. > > Ugh. I had a feeling we'd run into this. The site is designed using xhtml > and CSS (cascading style sheets) positioning, rather than tables, which is > what sites have been designed in since 1993 or so. In my opinion, CSS design > is superior for a list of reasons too long to enumerate here, but I > acknowledge the fact that about 2% of browsers aren't "standards compliant." > The biggest offender is Netscape Navigator version 4 and lower. D. Mike, if > you could let me know what browser you're using, it will let me know if I'm > coding wrong or if you're using a browser that just won't read the site. I > haven't done this part yet, but ultimately, the site will know if you're > using an outdated browser and automatically strip all formatting out, > leaving only the raw text. There will be a short notice on the site letting > the visitors know that they're only getting the plain vanilla version, and > if they want to upgrade their browser, they'll be able to enjoy the design > of the site. The notice will contain a link to where they can go to find > directions about upgrading (for free) to a standards-compliant browser. > > I know, I know, this is where people get angry that websites aren't serving > everyone equally, and designers get labeled elitist and exclusionary. I'm > not a designer by trade (only by hobby), so I understand those sentiments. > But the reason I design my sites using CSS is because it helps them be MORE > accessible -- for blind people who use braille browsers, for people who surf > the web on their PDAs, etc... I hope this makes some sense. > > Travis wrote: > > | The Masthead is a wee naked. The "Online" in white is hard to read, > unless > | it had a lightly-colored background, e.g. > > The masthead will incorporate the AML logo as soon as I can redesign it. As > for the "Online" being white on a light-blue background, that's intentional. > I don't want the site to be different from the printed publication, but > there needs to be a slight demarcation. Hence the dark "Irreantum" and the > light "Online." Elsewhere on the site, we will just refer to it as > "Irreantum" or "the online companion to Irreantum" or "Irreantum's online > presence" or something like that. The Atlantic Monthly has created an > enormous site that has a ton of online-only material, and they've called > their site "Atlantic Unbound," which I really like. They've branded the > name, and made it distinct from, yet still connected to the printed > magazine. I don't think we'll have enough original material online to really > brand "Irreantum Online," so the question becomes whether we leave the > subtle "Online" there in the logo, or just take it out altogether. > > Travis again: > > | We need a link to the Mormon Lit > | database: <http:// MormonLit.lib.byu.edu> and perhaps a few links to > | <aml-online.org>, that is links to our already established book reviews, > | other Mormon magazines and research connections, and to the Table of > | Contents page that includes the contents of past issues. As we put this > | together, we ought to consider putting more links to examples of texts > from > | past issues. > > I hope you'll all email me with links like this, and I'll create a sidebar > panel with lots of links to consistently good sites. As for the tables of > contents, my other email addressed that a bit, but I hope Chris will send me > everything he's got, and I'll create a separate TOC page for each back > issue. > > OK, that's it. Thanks to the three of you who sent specific feedback. > Another version of this should be ready by Monday, and I'll send it out and > ask for another round of comments. If you're on a Macintosh, I'd especially > like to hear how it looks. > > UPDATE: > > Well, it's Monday, and I did get some work done on the site over the > weekend. We now have a domain name: > > http://www.irreantum.org > > All you'll see at that address is a "Coming Soon" page. The version of the > main page I'm working on is here: > > http://www.irreantum.org/testing.html > > Please don't send that link to anyone who isn't directly involved with > Irreantum or the AML board. Once the design is finalized and the site is > ready, we'll move it to the main address and make an announcement on > AML-List. > > Some notes about the current design: > > After I wrote the above reply on Friday, Scott Parkin responded to D. > Michael's concerns with a much better explanation of the W3C standards and a > much better justification for using CSS positioning than I ever could have. > Thanks for the affirmation, Scott. The site is still very much a prototype, > so I don't think the code will "validate" as being 100% correct right now, > but once the design is done, I'll get the bugs out. > > Scott had several other suggestions: > > | * Too pastel. I had a hard time seeing the pale headline and link colors > against > | the shaded background. Then again, I'm mildly red/green color blind and > that > | sort of thing happens a lot for me. > > I know the background color is a little too pastelly (is that a word?), but > I didn't want a plain white background, and the logical choice was blue > (Irreantum = many waters, water = blue). I know that there are a lot of > color variations between monitors, so everyone might be seeing a slightly > different thing. But I did add some more color over the weekend (darker blue > title font and a burgundy accent color) that will hopefully tone down the > pastel look. > > | * Headlines and links looked too similar. The colors were similar enough > that I > | kept trying to click headlines (or at least hover over them and watch the > colors > | change). Consider using a darker color for the headlines. > > Good point. I redid the headline graphics throughout the site, and I'm still > deciding if I will make those graphics direct links or not. Your input is > welcome on this matter -- should the word "SUBSCRIBE," for instance, be a > link to the subscription page, even though there's a short explanation below > that graphic with a link to said page? > > | * Too many horizontal lines for my tastes. It seemed a little too boxy at > times. > > I'm working on eliminating some of these, and I think the addition of the > AML logo on the left side breaks up the page a bit. > > | * I would have liked a little more distinctiveness among the three > sections. > | Right now they all have nearly equal weight, so the center column content > | doesn't stand out as the focus of the page. I think you could reduce the > point > | size on both of the sidebars and perhaps even narrow those margins just a > tad to > | make the center column a bit more distinct and powerful. > > Done. The center column is now 20 pixels larger, and the margins between > columns are slightly wider. More than that, though, I think the larger title > graphic at the top of the center column draws attention to the featured > section. > > Enough rambling for now. I know I'm boring some of you to death, but I'm > hoping at least a few people on the list are interested in shaping the look > and feel of the site, which is why I'm going into so much detail about > little things. If you're having a hard time viewing the site on your > browser, or just want to make sure we're looking at the same thing, here's a > picture of what you should be seeing: > > http://www.irreantum.org/screenshot.jpg > > I'll be working on coding the templates for the site over the next week or > two. I hope we'll have something ready to unveil within two or three weeks. > I'm happy to listen to all the input you're willing to give. > > Thanks, > > Quinn > > > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 13:46:48 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F40.584E7720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I already sent all the Quark files of past Irreantum issues to Quinn. Marny (or anyone else), let me know if you still want those too. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:43 PM >Marny wrote: > >| A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left >| margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. Oops. I meant *off* the left margin. Apparently my window size was just small enough to make the left column mash against the left edge of the window. I'd like you to add some padding to the style of the left column so no matter what the window size, there is some white space on the left edge. I like what you've done with the "Irreantum Online" title. I think the all caps are fine for the short titles, but when the titles get longer, like the title of Melody's essay, they are much harder to read. I suggest leaving "interview" or "essay" in caps, but using initial caps for the rest of the title. If you want more visual difference between the headline and the body copy, try using a serifed font instead of all caps. And they could be a bit larger. Yes, make the titles like "subscribe" links. I'm not sure what type of links to outside sites we need--how redundant do we want to be to the AML site? I think doing a calendar that is better/more consistently updated would be good, since we publish news of the AML and a calendar fits in with that goal. Links to the Mormon Lit db certainly fit with our purpose, but do we want those links on the main page or on a secondary page? I still am unsure what we want to have in that right column. I think the rest looks very good. Thanks for doing the work. Chris, if you want to send me the Quark files I can do any exporting of text that we need so you don't have to worry about it. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F40.584E7720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> I already sent all the Quark files of past Irreantum = issues to Quinn. Marny (or anyone else), let me know if you still want = those too. -----Original Message----- From: Marny Parkin [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net">mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net</A>]</FON= T> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:43 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design >Marny wrote: > >| A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of = the left >| margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. Oops. I meant *off* the left margin. Apparently my = window size was just small enough to make the left column mash = against the left edge of the window. I'd like you to add some padding to = the style of the left column so no matter what the window size, there = is some white space on the left edge. I like what you've done with the "Irreantum = Online" title. I think the all caps are fine for the short titles, but when = the titles get longer, like the title of Melody's essay, they are = much harder to read. I suggest leaving "interview" or = "essay" in caps, but using initial caps for the rest of the title. If you want = more visual difference between the headline and the body copy, = try using a serifed font instead of all caps. And they could be = a bit larger. Yes, make the titles like "subscribe" = links. I'm not sure what type of links to outside sites we = need--how redundant do we want to be to the AML site? I think = doing a calendar that is better/more consistently updated would be = good, since we publish news of the AML and a calendar fits in with = that goal. Links to the Mormon Lit db certainly fit with our purpose, = but do we want those links on the main page or on a secondary page? = I still am unsure what we want to have in that right = column. I think the rest looks very good. Thanks for doing = the work. Chris, if you want to send me the Quark files I can = do any exporting of text that we need so you don't have to worry = about it. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F40.584E7720-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 13:28:00 -0700 I accidentally sent my response regarding other online literary mags prematurely. Here goes a few more annotations: Contemporary Poetry Review: http://www.cprw.com/ Has a monthly Letters to the Editor function. A sidenote: Irreantum could offer FREE online advertising for paper version subscribers! Perhaps that would entice a reluctant few advertisers from the confines of their cubicle. If the "free" advertising catches on, maybe we keep it (maybe we don't want ads for the site). Perhaps a Search function for the site would be helpful. Image: http://www.imagejournal.org/ We could feature an artist a month. If we divided up the duties, perhaps we'd only have one Mormon literary artist to interview a year, each. Consider including a SiteMap. The New Yorker: http://newyorker.com/ A well organized site, including a section called "Online Only." The Paris Review: http://www.parisreview.com/ I like how they have tightly cropped photos of authors, newspaper style (though more artistically captured). There is also a button for the Paris Review email list, their Foundation, and books they've published (we could advertise for past issues of Irreantum, or post that list of Mormon authors currently on Amazon.com, you know, the list recently on the AML list?). When it comes to offering FREE PDFs of Irreantum, I'm wondering if we shouldn't just do one PDF for now, to give potential readers/subscribers: publishers, librarians, bookstore owners, readers and writers. Getting permission for everyone who has ever written for Irreantum will perhaps be a pain in our kiester. For the future, we could perhaps have authors automatically fill out and submit an electronic (or paper) copyright form, which includes online publishing in Irreantum Online. But what happens if one author of an entire issue of Irreantum refuses to submit, or we cannot receive permission from said author to e-publish? I guess we keep "the text" in the Table of Contents but delete their creative contribution, and then we can give away that free PDF minus "that one author." We can also have a FAQs section. We could also offer cheaper subscriptions to Irreantum Online to teachers, librarians, or students (perhaps drastically cheaper for students). Just a few more thoughts. Travis ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:48 PM > Quinn, > > I have perused several online literary mags for ideas regarding Irreantum > Online. Check out the following few: > > African American Review: http://aar.slu.edu/ > I like their "Announcements" section with its Special Events, Call for > Papers, and Other Announcements headings. We could cross-advertise AML > events, along with calls for papers for various conferences with an interest > in Mormon lit. We could also include an info button to Advertise (with > Irreantum Online). [I look forward to utilizing an email address with > Irreantum in it.] > > American Poetry Review: http://www.aprweb.org/ > I like the idea of having a button for History, Irreantum (and Irreantum > Online) history. We could have a button connecting readership to Contests! > (What, the annual fiction contest, and the Marilyn Brown novel award; e.g.). > We could have buttons for Links and News, connections to Mormon lit. and > news links that is. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> > To: <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design > > > > [I wrote this email on Friday, but I made the mistake of attaching a > > screenshot of the website, and I don't think the server let it go through > to > > the list. My apologies if you've already received this. With additions > added > > below, it's quite long. Sorry about that.] > > > > This is the email where you all start to hate me for being a pretentious > > designer. But here goes nothing... > > > > Marny wrote: > > > > | A couple of twitchy things: Bring the text of the left > > | margin by a half-dozen pixels or so. > > > > I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Bring the text of the left > margin > > WHERE by a half-dozen pixels? The site design is three columns, which are > > all contained in an invisible frame, which is centered on the screen. This > > format works best on multiple variations of screen-size. The distance from > > the left edge of your screen to where the text begins depends entirely on > > your screen resolution. If you have a high screen resolution, you'll see a > > lot of white space (actually, very light blue space, but we'll get to that > > later). If your resolution is lower, the design will fill the entire > screen. > > If any of you have to scroll horizontally to see the whole front page, > > please let me know. If that's the case, I may have to resize the overall > > dimensions. > > > > Marny again: > > > > | And you can copy the AML logo of > > | the web site to put in the upper right corner (or somewhere else, but > > | I think we ought to have a stronger obvious tie to the main AML web > > | site). > > > > I agree -- I was waiting to get the original logo file to incorporate it > > into the look of the site, and it is now on its way, so the next beta > > version of the site will have a logo and a stronger visual tie to the AML. > > > > D. Michael wrote: > > > > | <div id="right"> > > | > > | Is this an MS Internet Explorer construct? It doesn't work with my > > | Netscape. The columns are all superimposed on each other. > > > > Ugh. I had a feeling we'd run into this. The site is designed using xhtml > > and CSS (cascading style sheets) positioning, rather than tables, which is > > what sites have been designed in since 1993 or so. In my opinion, CSS > design > > is superior for a list of reasons too long to enumerate here, but I > > acknowledge the fact that about 2% of browsers aren't "standards > compliant." > > The biggest offender is Netscape Navigator version 4 and lower. D. Mike, > if > > you could let me know what browser you're using, it will let me know if > I'm > > coding wrong or if you're using a browser that just won't read the site. I > > haven't done this part yet, but ultimately, the site will know if you're > > using an outdated browser and automatically strip all formatting out, > > leaving only the raw text. There will be a short notice on the site > letting > > the visitors know that they're only getting the plain vanilla version, and > > if they want to upgrade their browser, they'll be able to enjoy the design > > of the site. The notice will contain a link to where they can go to find > > directions about upgrading (for free) to a standards-compliant browser. > > > > I know, I know, this is where people get angry that websites aren't > serving > > everyone equally, and designers get labeled elitist and exclusionary. I'm > > not a designer by trade (only by hobby), so I understand those sentiments. > > But the reason I design my sites using CSS is because it helps them be > MORE > > accessible -- for blind people who use braille browsers, for people who > surf > > the web on their PDAs, etc... I hope this makes some sense. > > > > Travis wrote: > > > > | The Masthead is a wee naked. The "Online" in white is hard to read, > > unless > > | it had a lightly-colored background, e.g. > > > > The masthead will incorporate the AML logo as soon as I can redesign it. > As > > for the "Online" being white on a light-blue background, that's > intentional. > > I don't want the site to be different from the printed publication, but > > there needs to be a slight demarcation. Hence the dark "Irreantum" and the > > light "Online." Elsewhere on the site, we will just refer to it as > > "Irreantum" or "the online companion to Irreantum" or "Irreantum's online > > presence" or something like that. The Atlantic Monthly has created an > > enormous site that has a ton of online-only material, and they've called > > their site "Atlantic Unbound," which I really like. They've branded the > > name, and made it distinct from, yet still connected to the printed > > magazine. I don't think we'll have enough original material online to > really > > brand "Irreantum Online," so the question becomes whether we leave the > > subtle "Online" there in the logo, or just take it out altogether. > > > > Travis again: > > > > | We need a link to the Mormon Lit > > | database: <http:// MormonLit.lib.byu.edu> and perhaps a few links to > > | <aml-online.org>, that is links to our already established book reviews, > > | other Mormon magazines and research connections, and to the Table of > > | Contents page that includes the contents of past issues. As we put this > > | together, we ought to consider putting more links to examples of texts > > from > > | past issues. > > > > I hope you'll all email me with links like this, and I'll create a sidebar > > panel with lots of links to consistently good sites. As for the tables of > > contents, my other email addressed that a bit, but I hope Chris will send > me > > everything he's got, and I'll create a separate TOC page for each back > > issue. > > > > OK, that's it. Thanks to the three of you who sent specific feedback. > > Another version of this should be ready by Monday, and I'll send it out > and > > ask for another round of comments. If you're on a Macintosh, I'd > especially > > like to hear how it looks. > > > > UPDATE: > > > > Well, it's Monday, and I did get some work done on the site over the > > weekend. We now have a domain name: > > > > http://www.irreantum.org > > > > All you'll see at that address is a "Coming Soon" page. The version of the > > main page I'm working on is here: > > > > http://www.irreantum.org/testing.html > > > > Please don't send that link to anyone who isn't directly involved with > > Irreantum or the AML board. Once the design is finalized and the site is > > ready, we'll move it to the main address and make an announcement on > > AML-List. > > > > Some notes about the current design: > > > > After I wrote the above reply on Friday, Scott Parkin responded to D. > > Michael's concerns with a much better explanation of the W3C standards and > a > > much better justification for using CSS positioning than I ever could > have. > > Thanks for the affirmation, Scott. The site is still very much a > prototype, > > so I don't think the code will "validate" as being 100% correct right now, > > but once the design is done, I'll get the bugs out. > > > > Scott had several other suggestions: > > > > | * Too pastel. I had a hard time seeing the pale headline and link colors > > against > > | the shaded background. Then again, I'm mildly red/green color blind and > > that > > | sort of thing happens a lot for me. > > > > I know the background color is a little too pastelly (is that a word?), > but > > I didn't want a plain white background, and the logical choice was blue > > (Irreantum = many waters, water = blue). I know that there are a lot of > > color variations between monitors, so everyone might be seeing a slightly > > different thing. But I did add some more color over the weekend (darker > blue > > title font and a burgundy accent color) that will hopefully tone down the > > pastel look. > > > > | * Headlines and links looked too similar. The colors were similar enough > > that I > > | kept trying to click headlines (or at least hover over them and watch > the > > colors > > | change). Consider using a darker color for the headlines. > > > > Good point. I redid the headline graphics throughout the site, and I'm > still > > deciding if I will make those graphics direct links or not. Your input is > > welcome on this matter -- should the word "SUBSCRIBE," for instance, be a > > link to the subscription page, even though there's a short explanation > below > > that graphic with a link to said page? > > > > | * Too many horizontal lines for my tastes. It seemed a little too boxy > at > > times. > > > > I'm working on eliminating some of these, and I think the addition of the > > AML logo on the left side breaks up the page a bit. > > > > | * I would have liked a little more distinctiveness among the three > > sections. > > | Right now they all have nearly equal weight, so the center column > content > > | doesn't stand out as the focus of the page. I think you could reduce the > > point > > | size on both of the sidebars and perhaps even narrow those margins just > a > > tad to > > | make the center column a bit more distinct and powerful. > > > > Done. The center column is now 20 pixels larger, and the margins between > > columns are slightly wider. More than that, though, I think the larger > title > > graphic at the top of the center column draws attention to the featured > > section. > > > > Enough rambling for now. I know I'm boring some of you to death, but I'm > > hoping at least a few people on the list are interested in shaping the > look > > and feel of the site, which is why I'm going into so much detail about > > little things. If you're having a hard time viewing the site on your > > browser, or just want to make sure we're looking at the same thing, here's > a > > picture of what you should be seeing: > > > > http://www.irreantum.org/screenshot.jpg > > > > I'll be working on coding the templates for the site over the next week or > > two. I hope we'll have something ready to unveil within two or three > weeks. > > I'm happy to listen to all the input you're willing to give. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Quinn > > > > > > > > -- > > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > > > > > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 15:07:09 -0600 Quinn Warnick wrote: > D. Michael wrote: > Ugh. I had a feeling we'd run into this. The site is designed using xhtml > and CSS (cascading style sheets) positioning, rather than tables, which is > what sites have been designed in since 1993 or so. In my opinion, CSS design > is superior for a list of reasons too long to enumerate here, but I > acknowledge the fact that about 2% of browsers aren't "standards compliant." > The biggest offender is Netscape Navigator version 4 and lower. D. Mike, if > you could let me know what browser you're using, it will let me know if I'm > coding wrong or if you're using a browser that just won't read the site. I'm using an "evil" browser--Netscape 4. I don't feel like going through the rigmarole of updating. It works fine until someone like you comes along and decides they just _need_ to be modern. If that's more important to the web creators than communicating with me, then I just brush them off and surf on. As far as I'm concerned, if it can't be done with tables, it's not necessary. But then I'm not one of these superficial web browsers who needs flash. I just need content. That's how I feel. You can decide for yourself if my obstinate attitude is one you want to take into account in your design. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin <marnyparkin@pxi.net> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 17:02:35 -0600 >When it comes to offering FREE PDFs of Irreantum, I'm wondering if we >shouldn't just do one PDF for now, to give potential readers/subscribers: >publishers, librarians, bookstore owners, readers and writers. Getting >permission for everyone who has ever written for Irreantum will perhaps be a >pain in our kiester. For the future, we could perhaps have authors >automatically fill out and submit an electronic (or paper) copyright form, >which includes online publishing in Irreantum Online. But what happens if >one author of an entire issue of Irreantum refuses to submit, or we cannot >receive permission from said author to e-publish? I guess we keep "the >text" in the Table of Contents but delete their creative contribution, and >then we can give away that free PDF minus "that one author." We can also >have a FAQs section. We could also offer cheaper subscriptions to Irreantum >Online to teachers, librarians, or students (perhaps drastically cheaper for >students). We have the right to distribute (print or pdf or otherwise) the ENTIRE issue of Irreantum. We only have to ask permission of individual authors to distribute individual pieces (print or on the web or pdf or whatever). However, it would be nice to let previous authors know what we are doing. It could be done as a single email sent to all of them. We can ask permission to post individual pieces in the same letter, asking for a specific yes or no response. Often, magazines charge a higher rate for sample copies, but in our case a free sample may be a good idea. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 16:46:48 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F59.7D306A30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" So we could put up any issue's PDF as long as it's complete. Cool! My approach on sample printed copies is to usually charge higher (to account for extra postage costs) but occasionally run a free sample promo. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 5:03 PM >When it comes to offering FREE PDFs of Irreantum, I'm wondering if we >shouldn't just do one PDF for now, to give potential readers/subscribers: >publishers, librarians, bookstore owners, readers and writers. Getting >permission for everyone who has ever written for Irreantum will perhaps be a >pain in our kiester. For the future, we could perhaps have authors >automatically fill out and submit an electronic (or paper) copyright form, >which includes online publishing in Irreantum Online. But what happens if >one author of an entire issue of Irreantum refuses to submit, or we cannot >receive permission from said author to e-publish? I guess we keep "the >text" in the Table of Contents but delete their creative contribution, and >then we can give away that free PDF minus "that one author." We can also >have a FAQs section. We could also offer cheaper subscriptions to Irreantum >Online to teachers, librarians, or students (perhaps drastically cheaper for >students). We have the right to distribute (print or pdf or otherwise) the ENTIRE issue of Irreantum. We only have to ask permission of individual authors to distribute individual pieces (print or on the web or pdf or whatever). However, it would be nice to let previous authors know what we are doing. It could be done as a single email sent to all of them. We can ask permission to post individual pieces in the same letter, asking for a specific yes or no response. Often, magazines charge a higher rate for sample copies, but in our case a free sample may be a good idea. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F59.7D306A30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> So we could put up any issue's PDF as long as it's = complete. Cool! My approach on sample printed copies is to usually = charge higher (to account for extra postage costs) but occasionally run = a free sample promo. -----Original Message----- From: Marny Parkin [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net">mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net</A>]</FON= T> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 5:03 PM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design >When it comes to offering FREE PDFs of Irreantum, = I'm wondering if we >shouldn't just do one PDF for now, to give = potential readers/subscribers: >publishers, librarians, bookstore owners, = readers and writers. Getting >permission for everyone who has ever written for = Irreantum will perhaps be a >pain in our kiester. For the future, we = could perhaps have authors >automatically fill out and submit an electronic = (or paper) copyright form, >which includes online publishing in Irreantum = Online. But what happens if >one author of an entire issue of Irreantum = refuses to submit, or we cannot >receive permission from said author to = e-publish? I guess we keep "the >text" in the Table of Contents but delete = their creative contribution, and >then we can give away that free PDF minus = "that one author." We can also >have a FAQs section. We could also offer = cheaper subscriptions to Irreantum >Online to teachers, librarians, or students = (perhaps drastically cheaper for >students). We have the right to distribute (print or pdf or = otherwise) the ENTIRE issue of Irreantum. We only have to ask = permission of individual authors to distribute individual pieces = (print or on the web or pdf or whatever). However, it would be nice = to let previous authors know what we are doing. It could be done as = a single email sent to all of them. We can ask permission to post = individual pieces in the same letter, asking for a specific yes or no = response. Often, magazines charge a higher rate for sample = copies, but in our case a free sample may be a good idea. Marny -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List = <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F59.7D306A30-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow <Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting Date: 30 Jun 2003 18:45:20 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F6A.0C66E8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That would be fine to have an ice cream social/meeting at my house. I'm a little uncertain of whether to book it for Thursday nite, August 14, or Friday nite, August 15. I guess I don't know if Sunstone has something great going on one of those evenings or what. Does anyone have a preference between those two nights at this point? Let's revisit this more as we get closer. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:57 AM Chris, Why don't we meet at your home for the Irreantum meetin'. Since you don't have the barbecue, we could meet formally at 7 p.m. with desert afterward (no dinner). I vote for banana splits!! I'll bring the bananas! Chris, if you can bring icecream, since it would perhaps be easier for you to transport such a meltable treat (many of us being on the road and all), and each of us bring our favorite split topping.... I'll still compile the agenda and can shephard the meetin' (with ya'll's assistance). Travis ----- Original Message ----- <mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:57 AM Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like Thursday, August 14, or Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, or later in the evening is fine by me. Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the agenda (ask people what they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not it. We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), or at a restaurant anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider other places. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F6A.0C66E8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Irreantum meeting</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>That would be fine to have an ice cream social/meeting at my house.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a little uncertain of whether to book it for Thursday nite, August 14, or Friday nite, August 15. I guess I don't know if Sunstone has something great going on one of those evenings or what. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does anyone have a preference between those two nights at this point? Let's revisit this more as we get closer.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:57 AM To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting </DIV> <DIV>Chris,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why don't we meet at your home for the Irreantum meetin'. Since you don't have the barbecue, we could meet formally at 7 p.m. with desert afterward (no dinner). I vote for banana splits!! I'll bring the bananas! Chris, if you can bring icecream, since it would perhaps be easier for you to transport such a meltable treat (many of us being on the road and all), and each of us bring our favorite split topping.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll still compile the agenda and can shephard the meetin' (with ya'll's assistance).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com href="mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com href="mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:57 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like Thursday, August 14, or Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, or later in the evening is fine by me. Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the agenda (ask people what they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not it. We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), or at a restaurant anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider other places.</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C33F6A.0C66E8E0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 20:07:58 -0700 Ignore him! ^ ^ * * <-----> = Travis ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 2:07 PM > Quinn Warnick wrote: > > > D. Michael wrote: > > > Ugh. I had a feeling we'd run into this. The site is designed using xhtml > > and CSS (cascading style sheets) positioning, rather than tables, which is > > what sites have been designed in since 1993 or so. In my opinion, CSS design > > is superior for a list of reasons too long to enumerate here, but I > > acknowledge the fact that about 2% of browsers aren't "standards compliant." > > The biggest offender is Netscape Navigator version 4 and lower. D. Mike, if > > you could let me know what browser you're using, it will let me know if I'm > > coding wrong or if you're using a browser that just won't read the site. > > I'm using an "evil" browser--Netscape 4. I don't feel like going through > the rigmarole of updating. It works fine until someone like you comes > along and decides they just _need_ to be modern. If that's more > important to the web creators than communicating with me, then I just > brush them off and surf on. As far as I'm concerned, if it can't be done > with tables, it's not necessary. But then I'm not one of these > superficial web browsers who needs flash. I just need content. > > That's how I feel. You can decide for yourself if my obstinate attitude > is one you want to take into account in your design. > > -- > D. Michael Martindale > dmichael@wwno.com > > ================================== > Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at > http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths > > Sponsored by Worlds Without Number > http://www.wwno.com > ================================== > > -- > Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> > -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" <tmanning.eagle@sisna.com> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 20:11:58 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C33F43.DBFDADE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum DesignI like Marny's idea to contact past authors = of Irreantum and let them know what we're doing with Irreantum Online. = It's just one more way to strengthen our network of submitters and = subscribers, to spread "the good word" of Irreantum, to maintain that = professional relationship with authors and readers. Travis ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Bigelow=20 To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design So we could put up any issue's PDF as long as it's complete. Cool!=20 My approach on sample printed copies is to usually charge higher (to = account for extra postage costs) but occasionally run a free sample = promo. -----Original Message-----=20 From: Marny Parkin [mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net]=20 Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 5:03 PM=20 To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design=20 >When it comes to offering FREE PDFs of Irreantum, I'm wondering if we = >shouldn't just do one PDF for now, to give potential = readers/subscribers:=20 >publishers, librarians, bookstore owners, readers and writers. = Getting=20 >permission for everyone who has ever written for Irreantum will = perhaps be a=20 >pain in our kiester. For the future, we could perhaps have authors=20 >automatically fill out and submit an electronic (or paper) copyright = form,=20 >which includes online publishing in Irreantum Online. But what = happens if=20 >one author of an entire issue of Irreantum refuses to submit, or we = cannot=20 >receive permission from said author to e-publish? I guess we keep = "the=20 >text" in the Table of Contents but delete their creative = contribution, and=20 >then we can give away that free PDF minus "that one author." We can = also=20 >have a FAQs section. We could also offer cheaper subscriptions to = Irreantum=20 >Online to teachers, librarians, or students (perhaps drastically = cheaper for=20 >students).=20 We have the right to distribute (print or pdf or otherwise) the=20 ENTIRE issue of Irreantum. We only have to ask permission of=20 individual authors to distribute individual pieces (print or on the=20 web or pdf or whatever). However, it would be nice to let previous=20 authors know what we are doing. It could be done as a single email=20 sent to all of them. We can ask permission to post individual pieces=20 in the same letter, asking for a specific yes or no response.=20 Often, magazines charge a higher rate for sample copies, but in our=20 case a free sample may be a good idea.=20 Marny=20 --=20 Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com>=20 ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C33F43.DBFDADE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>I like Marny's idea to contact past authors of = Irreantum and=20 let them know what we're doing with Irreantum Online. It's just = one more=20 way to strengthen our network of submitters and subscribers, to spread = "the good=20 word" of Irreantum, to maintain that professional relationship with = authors and=20 readers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Travis</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DChris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com">Christopher = Bigelow</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dirreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'">'irreantum-ed@lists.xmi= ssion.com'</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 = 3:46 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [irr-ed] Irreantum = Design</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> So we could put up any issue's PDF as long as it's = complete.=20 Cool! My approach on sample printed copies is to usually = charge=20 higher (to account for extra postage costs) but occasionally run a = free sample=20 promo. -----Original Message----- From: Marny=20 Parkin [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net">mailto:marnyparkin@pxi.net</A>]</FONT= >=20 Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 5:03 PM = <FONT=20 size=3D2>To: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com">irreantum-ed@lists.xmissi= on.com</A>=20 Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design = >When it comes to offering FREE PDFs of = Irreantum, I'm=20 wondering if we >shouldn't just do one = PDF for now,=20 to give potential readers/subscribers: >publishers,=20 librarians, bookstore owners, readers and writers. = Getting=20 >permission for everyone who has ever written = for=20 Irreantum will perhaps be a >pain in our=20 kiester. For the future, we could perhaps have authors = <FONT=20 size=3D2>>automatically fill out and submit an electronic (or = paper)=20 copyright form, >which includes online = publishing=20 in Irreantum Online. But what happens if >one=20 author of an entire issue of Irreantum refuses to submit, or we = cannot=20 >receive permission from said author to = e-publish? I=20 guess we keep "the >text" in the Table of = Contents=20 but delete their creative contribution, and >then=20 we can give away that free PDF minus "that one author." We can=20 also >have a FAQs section. We could = also=20 offer cheaper subscriptions to Irreantum >Online to=20 teachers, librarians, or students (perhaps drastically cheaper = for=20 >students). We have the right to distribute (print or pdf or = otherwise)=20 the ENTIRE issue of Irreantum. We only have = to ask=20 permission of individual authors to = distribute=20 individual pieces (print or on the web or = pdf or=20 whatever). However, it would be nice to let previous <FONT=20 size=3D2>authors know what we are doing. It could be done as a single = email=20 sent to all of them. We can ask permission = to post=20 individual pieces in the same letter, asking = for a=20 specific yes or no response. Often, magazines charge a higher rate for sample = copies, but=20 in our case a free sample may be a good = idea.=20 Marny -- Irreantum Editor's = Discussion List=20 <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> = </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C33F43.DBFDADE0-- -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting Date: 30 Jun 2003 22:03:20 -0600 I'll be at my parents' house in Pleasant Grove, so the short drive to Provo wouldn't be a problem either night. I'll bring the chopped almonds... Quinn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:45 PM | That would be fine to have an ice cream social/meeting at my house. | | I'm a little uncertain of whether to book it for Thursday nite, August 14, | or Friday nite, August 15. I guess I don't know if Sunstone has something | great going on one of those evenings or what. | | Does anyone have a preference between those two nights at this point? Let's | revisit this more as we get closer. | | -----Original Message----- | From: Travis K. Manning [mailto:tmanning.eagle@sisna.com] | Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:57 AM | To: irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com | Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting | | | Chris, | | Why don't we meet at your home for the Irreantum meetin'. Since you don't | have the barbecue, we could meet formally at 7 p.m. with desert afterward | (no dinner). I vote for banana splits!! I'll bring the bananas! Chris, if | you can bring icecream, since it would perhaps be easier for you to | transport such a meltable treat (many of us being on the road and all), and | each of us bring our favorite split topping.... | | I'll still compile the agenda and can shephard the meetin' (with ya'll's | assistance). | | Travis | | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: Christopher Bigelow <mailto:Chris.Bigelow@UnicityNetwork.com> | To: 'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com' | <mailto:'irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com'> | Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:57 AM | Subject: [irr-ed] Irreantum meeting | | | Let's do have an Irreantum gathering. Sounds like Thursday, August 14, or | Friday the 15th would be best. Lunch, dinner, or later in the evening is | fine by me. | | Could we get a volunteer who wants to compile the agenda (ask people what | they want on it) and conduct the meeting? Not it. | | We could meet at my home in Provo (by the temple), or at a restaurant | anywhere in Salt Lake or Utah valleys, or consider other places. | | -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" <quinn@whiteshoe.org> Subject: Re: [irr-ed] Irreantum Design Date: 30 Jun 2003 22:45:00 -0600 Marny wrote: | Oops. I meant *off* the left margin. Apparently my window size was | just small enough to make the left column mash against the left edge | of the window. I'd like you to add some padding to the style of the | left column so no matter what the window size, there is some white | space on the left edge. I squeezed in five pixels on each side, but I need at least another five. And that will make the columns narrower (I'm trying to keep the entire width under 800 pixels, and it's at 790 right now), which means I'll have to redo the graphics files (which fit the columns to the pixel). But I'll get there. Thanks for the input on this one. | I like what you've done with the "Irreantum Online" title. I think | the all caps are fine for the short titles, but when the titles get | longer, like the title of Melody's essay, they are much harder to | read. I suggest leaving "interview" or "essay" in caps, but using | initial caps for the rest of the title. If you want more visual | difference between the headline and the body copy, try using a | serifed font instead of all caps. And they could be a bit larger. I think the center column will have the large "In Our Current Issue" graphic at the top, and then smaller blue subtitle graphics that say "Fiction," "Essay," etc. The actual titles and bylines will probably not be all-caps -- I just need to play with the style sheet a little. I've been focusing on column widths and things like that -- now I can start worrying about font sizes and line spacing. | Yes, make the titles like "subscribe" links. I'll work on some roll-over images that make those graphics look like links. Yet another thing to learn... | I'm not sure what type of links to outside sites we need--how | redundant do we want to be to the AML site? I think doing a calendar | that is better/more consistently updated would be good, since we | publish news of the AML and a calendar fits in with that goal. Links | to the Mormon Lit db certainly fit with our purpose, but do we want | those links on the main page or on a secondary page? I still am | unsure what we want to have in that right column. I don't want to be too redundant to the AML site, but the reality is that the AML site is rarely updated. I hope the Irreantum can have a more timely feel to it. What I have in mind for the right column is hard to explain, but I think it can be a mix of news, announcements, links to interesting sites, maybe even a little gossip. Two great examples of what would go there: 1) A link to the recent Desert News article about Dutcher's struggles to get the Joseph Smith movie made, and 2) a shorter version of the gossip item Chris Bigelow forwarded to the AML-List about the lead in the Book of Mormon movie appearing nude in Queer as Folk. Will some of it be repeats of stuff discussed on AML-List? Probably. But we will archive all the links, which will make the site the go-to place for people who think, "I remember reading about all the controversy over Deseret Book's new editorial policy. Where was that article again? Oh yeah, I'll check Irreantum.org." The right column now sports a tiny graphic image of a piece of paper at the beginning of each item. Those images will be links to the permanent archive page for that item. So people will be able to email links to friends without worrying about whether the item will still be on the front page when the friend visits. Travis wrote: | The first page of the site does not fit on my screen with my Internet | Explorer browser (4.0?)--however, I have purposefully amped up the pixels so | all text is slightly larger for my poor eyesight; I would assume most web | users *don't* do this so I'm in the minority. As long as enough important | info is in the top half of the site so a person can tell what the site is at | quick glance without reading the bottom half of the site it should be fine. I don't think anyone will be able to see the whole page from top to bottom in their browser. I was more concerned about whether anyone has to scroll *horizontally* to see the entire page from left to right. If your monitor settings are lower than 800x600, you may have to. Is anyone using a setting lower than that? | the last thing to consider: perhaps we ought to also have a few | *non-AML staffers* peruse your webpage design, as first-time readers will | also be stumbling onto the site without a clue as to what the site is. | Fresh eyes--office mates, friends, family even--could also provide valuable | feedback on the site's functionality and design presentation. I've already asked a few web-designer friends to look at the site and test it for usability. I'll expand that group and probably invite all of you to do the same once we have some real content to look at. D. Michael wrote: | I'm using an "evil" browser Your words, not mine. | I don't feel like going through | the rigmarole of updating. Fair enough. | It works fine until someone like you comes | along and decides they just _need_ to be modern. Someone like me? You mean someone who is trying to design a site that is accessible to blind users? I'll take that as a compliment. | I'm not one of these | superficial web browsers who needs flash. I just need content. Funny that you should associate my design with the word "flash." I'm the least flashy designer I know. My other site (whiteshoe.org) is completely black and white with no graphics at all. CSS-based design is all about content -- separating content from design so sites are easier to update and accessible to a broader range of users and Internet devices. | That's how I feel. You can decide for yourself if my obstinate attitude | is one you want to take into account in your design. I have indeed taken it into account. If you visit the testing page (http://www.irreantum.org/testing.html), you'll find that I've rewritten the code so your browser doesn't see the style sheet. The site will still be completely readable, even in an "evil" browser, proving yet again that designing with web standards is the right thing to do. Quinn PS - I'm not sure everyone on the list appreciates this protracted discussion about minute details of the site's design, so I may not respond to each suggestion on this list. But please keep sending them (either to the list or to me personally), and trust that I'm listening and trying to incorporate every suggestion I can, even those from the "obstinate" crowd. :-) -- Irreantum Editor's Discussion List <irreantum-ed@lists.xmission.com>