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hist_text-digest      Sunday, September 16 2001      Volume 01 : Number 864



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: solidarity
-áááááá MtMan-List: unsubscribe
-áááááá Fw: MtMan-List: solidarity
-áááááá MtMan-List: Test
-áááááá MtMan-List: off topic virus
-áááááá MtMan-List: rejoining AMM
-áááááá MtMan-List: FW: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: rejoining AMM
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: solidarity
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA
-áááááá MtMan-List:  Appropriate words for the days ahead
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: what's authentic
-áááááá MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire
-áááááá MtMan-List: We won't change because of them
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:51:21 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA

Prime Minster Chretien truly spoke for all Canadians yesterday, when he
said, "We will be with the United States every step of the way. As friends.
As neighbours As family."

I've always thought of you folks as friends and neighbours, but Chretien is
right: We're family.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred



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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:49:34 -0400
From: "Maryln Adams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: solidarity

Dear Friend:  Thank you for your kind words. I am a teacher and was at
school with my students when this terrible thing happened.  It was very
frightening for the children and for all of us.  There is great sadness here
in the USA but make no mistake, "Americans will prevail" We are a strong and
determined people.  We are pleased that you support us and feel our pain.



>From: "Pavel Grund" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: ve°ejnß konference US MM <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: solidarity
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:25:10 +0200
>
>  Dear friends,
>
>
>Reports from USA are very hard blow for us.  We can┤t believe what we see
>in TV.
>
>We hope that all offenders will be disclosed and grueled.
>
>
>Yesterday night in our country burn candles in windows over all land as
>symbol of solidarity wiht people of USA.
>
>People of our country are prepared to help in accordance with our
>possibilities.
>
>
>
>Pavel "Peggy" Grund
>
>Czech Republic
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 18:28:04 -0600
From: Kierst Family <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe

I'd like to unsubscribe because I got behind in opening e-mails and have
almost 300 unopened ones that I'd like to sort out and its hard with more
and more ariveing everyday. As soon as this is all fixed I'd like to
resubscribe. I think this is a great site and I've learned alot.
Dirty Shirt



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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:45:50 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: solidarity

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Pavel
Thank you for your kind words.  The reactions of your countrymen and of =
many others around the world to this act of cowardice have been seen and =
appreciated by Americans.  The people of the USA are united behind  =
President Bush to strike these terrorist murderers from the face of the =
earth......to make the USA, the Czech Republic and the rest of the world =
a safer place.  God bless us all.
Lanney Ratcliff
Texas, USA

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Pavel Grund=20
To: ve=F8ejn=E1 konference US MM=20
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: solidarity


 Dear friends,=20


Reports from USA are very hard blow for us.  We can=B4t believe what we =
see in TV.

We hope that all offenders will be disclosed and grueled.


Yesterday night in our country burn candles in windows over all land as =
symbol of solidarity wiht people of USA.

People of our country are prepared to help in accordance with our =
possibilities.=20



Pavel "Peggy" Grund

Czech Republic


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-2" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pavel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you for your kind words.  The reactions =
of your=20
countrymen and of many others around the world to this act of =
cowardice=20
have been seen and appreciated by Americans.  The people of =
the USA=20
are united behind  President Bush to strike these terrorist =
murderers from=20
the face of the earth......to make the USA, the Czech Republic and the =
rest of=20
the world a safer place.  God bless us all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Texas, USA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Pavel=20
Grund</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
title=[e-mail]>ve=F8ejn=E1 konference US MM</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:25 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: solidarity</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff> Dear=20
friends,=20
<P align=3Djustify> </P>
<P align=3Djustify>Reports from USA are very hard blow for us.  We =
can=B4t=20
believe what we see in TV.</P>
<P align=3Djustify>We hope that all offenders will be disclosed and =
grueled.</P>
<P align=3Djustify></P>
<P>Yesterday night in our country burn candles in windows over all =
land as=20
symbol of solidarity wiht people of USA.</P>
<P>People of our country are prepared to help in accordance with our=20
possibilities. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Pavel "Peggy" Grund</P>
<P>Czech Republic</P></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:43:21 -0600
From: "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Test

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This is a test message, to see if I can post a new message
Bill



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D430234203-16092001>This =
is a test=20
message, to see if I can post a new message</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Bill </FONT></P>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:57:07 -0400
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: off topic virus

I recently got the sircam virus. I believe it went to all those in my
address book. If you got it, my apologies.  Some way my Norton automatic
scan of e-mail was disabled.

Again my apologies


John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
longhunter
mountainman
Southwest, Ohio


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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: rejoining AMM

Gentlemen, I have lost Bill Cunningham's e-mail
address.  Can someone on this list please tell me who
I have to contact concerning rejoining AMM?  Thanks
for your help,  DOG, formerly HIV. #617

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:16:32 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: FW: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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- ----------
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated
Date: Sun, Sep 16, 2001, 9:15 AM


Mark,
Rusty Sargent, was not issued a number at the time that numbers got shifted=
.
Dick James was his sponser and said that he turned the papers in. It is
possible for that to have happaned during that time period, but going by th=
e
data-base and ledger I can not find his number. However on his original car=
d
there was a number but it was crossed out using a Magic Marker along with
others of that time period. It is up to you  too either add his name at the
land or not or you could seek direction from Capitain George.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated
Date: Sat, Sep 15, 2001, 8:34 PM


Ole Here are the brother we have listed thus far with two new one at the
bottom.

George W. Johnston #5 Gray beard
Grandel Granny Martin #8 Gray beard
Regionald Laubin # 9 Gray beard
Joe Linde's "Timber Jack Joe"  # 18 gray beard
Harold "Smokey" Pelham. =A0Graybeard #29
Richrd Fields # 49
Lee Robertson # 102
Glen "Doc" Hunt's  # 210
Pat D. Tearney # 163
Charles E. Hanson # 174
James Mulvaney # 188
Jim Giles # 228
Slim Pickins #347
Ivan Sherk =A0# 354
Fiddlin' Dick Wilson #377
John L. Elliott # 469
Howard Kennesaw Jump ,Hiverano=A0 # 522
Ronald Hancock # 583
Robert L. Takace # 677
Jim Rowley # 721
Dev Rhoades # 877
George H. Hermansen ("Dink"), # 904
Lee Walsh "Moses" McTavish . =A0Hvro. #1000
Mathew J. Malloy # 1015
David L. Sample # 1294
Marvin "Jake" Stovall #1319
Robert Stigler # 1620
"Rusty" Eddie Sargent  No number issued

Ole Two names I missed
Charlie "Bear" Knight #889
Leighton "The Senator" Baker  # 59

Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>FW: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]><BR>
To: [e-mail]<BR>
Subject: Re: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated<BR>
Date: Sun, Sep 16, 2001, 9:15 AM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Mark,<BR>
Rusty Sargent, was not issued a number at the time that numbers got shifted=
. Dick James was his sponser and said that he turned the papers in. It is po=
ssible for that to have happaned during that time period, but going by the d=
ata-base and ledger I can not find his number. However on his original card =
there was a number but it was crossed out using a Magic Marker along with ot=
hers of that time period. It is up to you  too either add his name at t=
he land or not or you could seek direction from Capitain George.<BR>
YMOS<BR>
Ole # 718<BR>
- ----------<BR>
From: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]<BR>
</U></FONT>To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]<BR>
</U></FONT>Subject: Brothers Gone under 9/16 updated<BR>
Date: Sat, Sep 15, 2001, 8:34 PM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Ole Here are the brother we have listed thus far=
 with two new one at the bottom. <BR>
<BR>
George W. Johnston #5 Gray beard <BR>
Grandel Granny Martin #8 Gray beard <BR>
Regionald Laubin # 9 Gray beard <BR>
Joe Linde's "</FONT>Timber Jack Joe<FONT SIZE=3D"2">"  # 18 gr=
ay beard <BR>
Harold "</FONT>Smokey<FONT SIZE=3D"2">" Pelham. =A0Graybeard #29 <BR>
Richrd Fields # 49 <BR>
Lee Robertson # 102 <BR>
Glen "</FONT>Doc<FONT SIZE=3D"2">" Hunt's  # 210 <BR>
Pat D. Tearney # 163 <BR>
Charles E. Hanson # 174 <BR>
James Mulvaney # 188 <BR>
Jim Giles # 228 <BR>
Slim Pickins #347 <BR>
Ivan Sherk =A0# 354 <BR>
</FONT>Fiddlin'<FONT SIZE=3D"2"> Dick Wilson #377 <BR>
John L. Elliott # 469 <BR>
Howard Kennesaw Jump ,Hiverano=A0 # 522 <BR>
Ronald Hancock # 583 <BR>
Robert L. Takace # 677 <BR>
Jim Rowley # 721 <BR>
Dev Rhoades # 877 <BR>
George H. Hermansen ("</FONT>Dink<FONT SIZE=3D"2">"), # 904 <BR>
Lee Walsh "</FONT>Moses<FONT SIZE=3D"2">" McTavish . =A0Hvro. #1000 <=
BR>
Mathew J. Malloy # 1015 <BR>
David L. Sample # 1294 <BR>
Marvin "</FONT>Jake<FONT SIZE=3D"2">" Stovall #1319 <BR>
Robert Stigler # 1620 <BR>
"Rusty" Eddie Sargent  </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"5">No number issue=
d <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
Ole Two names I missed <BR>
Charlie "Bear" Knight </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"5">#889<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Leighton "The Senator" Baker  </FONT><=
FONT SIZE=3D"5"># 59<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader</FONT> <BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:25:46 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rejoining AMM

Dog,
Get a hold of the following leaders and they can help you through the
process.
Good to have you back!
Ole
Wyoming Brigade booshway
Joe Funk
307-733-5373

Capitaine
George Thompson
805-740-9668
[e-mail]

Editor TL&R
Bill Cunningham
970-240-6090
[e-mail]
- ----------
>From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
>To: hist list <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: rejoining AMM
>Date: Sun, Sep 16, 2001, 7:54 AM
>

>Gentlemen, I have lost Bill Cunningham's e-mail
>address.  Can someone on this list please tell me who
>I have to contact concerning rejoining AMM?  Thanks
>for your help,  DOG, formerly HIV. #617
>
>__________________________________________________
>Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
>Donate cash, emergency relief information
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:40:01 -0700
From: "John Funk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: solidarity

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Good words, Lanney.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Lanney Ratcliff=20
  To: History List=20
  Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 7:45 PM
  Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: solidarity


  Pavel
  Thank you for your kind words.  The reactions of your countrymen and =
of many others around the world to this act of cowardice have been seen =
and appreciated by Americans.  The people of the USA are united behind  =
President Bush to strike these terrorist murderers from the face of the =
earth......to make the USA, the Czech Republic and the rest of the world =
a safer place.  God bless us all.
  Lanney Ratcliff
  Texas, USA

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Pavel Grund=20
  To: ve=F8ejn=E1 konference US MM=20
  Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:25 AM
  Subject: MtMan-List: solidarity


   Dear friends,=20


  Reports from USA are very hard blow for us.  We can=B4t believe what =
we see in TV.

  We hope that all offenders will be disclosed and grueled.


  Yesterday night in our country burn candles in windows over all land =
as symbol of solidarity wiht people of USA.

  People of our country are prepared to help in accordance with our =
possibilities.=20



  Pavel "Peggy" Grund

  Czech Republic


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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-2">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Good words, Lanney.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Lanney=20
  Ratcliff</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">History List</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 15, =
2001 7:45=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fw: MtMan-List: =
solidarity</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pavel</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you for your kind words.  The reactions =
of your=20
  countrymen and of many others around the world to this act of =
cowardice=20
  have been seen and appreciated by Americans.  The people of =
the USA=20
  are united behind  President Bush to strike these terrorist =
murderers=20
  from the face of the earth......to make the USA, the Czech Republic =
and the=20
  rest of the world a safer place.  God bless us all.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Texas, USA</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
  title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Pavel Grund</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">ve=F8ejn=E1 konference US =
MM</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:25 AM</DIV>
  <DIV><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: solidarity</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff> Dear=20
  friends,=20
  <P align=3Djustify> </P>
  <P align=3Djustify>Reports from USA are very hard blow for us.  =
We can=B4t=20
  believe what we see in TV.</P>
  <P align=3Djustify>We hope that all offenders will be disclosed and =
grueled.</P>
  <P align=3Djustify></P>
  <P>Yesterday night in our country burn candles in windows over =
all land=20
  as symbol of solidarity wiht people of USA.</P>
  <P>People of our country are prepared to help in accordance with our=20
  possibilities. </P>
  <P> </P>
  <P>Pavel "Peggy" Grund</P>
  <P>Czech =
Republic</P></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:28:51 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA

Dear Angela,
    I apologize for not responding to you before now.  I received your reply
on the night that one of our girls thought that a good washing of the
keyboard was in order.  So, a cup of water later, nearly all of the keys work
again; except the critter between "L" and "N."
    I absolutely intended no offense to anyone, especially our Canadian
brothers and sisters, with the posting of Gordon Sinclair's editorial piece.
I had never seen it until the day before I sent it.  If I caused any grief or
ill will, then the largest of apologies will not be big enough.  The truth
could not be any further away.

    To Pavel and all of our friends abroad, a heart felt "Thank you."
I pray that God will bless us all, and that this evil will be taken off of
this earth.

Sincerely,

Wade "Sleeps Loudly" S_ith.


Ps
you would not believe how hard it is to type a correspondence without having
the letter between "L" and "N."

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:44:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List:  Appropriate words for the days ahead

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;

[3rd stanza; 1st line - 4th stanza
The Battle Hymn of The Republic]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:51:33 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what's authentic

Thanks Magpie,

You live another day. God we had fun this weekend inspite of ourselves
didn't we?! I like Jeff's idea of working our way up the Cooper River via
saw and ax until we find good Beaver! Maybe we'll make that a challenge for
next year. Sure was fun seeing all those deer today in the Wenas. Now all we
got to do is turn them into elks. See ya next week Brother.

Capt. Lahti'


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what's authentic


>
> In a message dated 9/10/01 6:20:05 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << He sends me stuff too. But I am on this list and that is asking for
>
> input. >>
>
> Haaaaaa.....and he does give good input! ..<VBG> The Great Capt Lahti is,
and
> has been, my "mentor", and probably the main reason I'm a pilgrim in the
AMM.
> We've shared many camp fires, hunts, and jugs of rum together, and he's
given
> me the direction I needed to do it right....<sob> I love you...man...<G>
>
> Seriously... I couldn't ask for a better guide, friend, brother, and a
finer
> Mountaineer you'd be hard to fine.
>
> I remain..
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:07:14 -0600
From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire

Lee Newbill wrote in part:

I know I've been pretty quiet lately, but now I have a question
regarding horses and gunfire.

How have the list members with horses familiarize their mounts and
packstock with gunfire? Mine have shown a marked unhappiness with
gunshots and I need to fix that.

Been training and work the small Newbill herd for packing... so far,
only one minor wreck. Lesson learned... make sure the breakable link in
the lead between pack animals is indeed
 breakable.

Cpt. Scott McMahon answered in part:

As far as cannons go I have a
blm mare that loves cannons, at events she loves to get as close as
possible
while the guns are blazing!? Who knows! I also train them for lances and

sabres basically with the same process...just a gradual familiarization
with
the weapons. Hope this helps...glad to finally see someone with an
interest
in horses on this list!


Now I hope enough time has passed for me to post something completely
unrelated to the events of the last week without appearing insensitive
or uncaring.

Mr. Newbill;

 Doc, Richard, and their crowd do know how to ride but I admire you too,
for your above stated lesson.  In order for you to have learned it, I
assume  you had to have taken charge of at least three animals at one
time, I have found a riding and one pack animal a hand full at times but
have only braved the chore of adding another animal to the string but
rarely and that was for a pretty short distances.

At any rate as you may already know, there are two types of condition
training one is to gain a desirable response to a condition; for
instance, to get the horse to do something like go when you cluck or put
his head in your hat so he is easy to catch.  The other is to decrease
an undesirable behavior.  Something like the methods others have
described already of slowly desensitizing to gun fire.  I might add that
it can help to do some early lessons after you have ôthrown the horse
over the fence some hayö.  That will make sure that the feeling he has
toward the noise remains positive.

I would like to take this one step farther and talk about the results
you should expect.  I did a similar action with my steeds several years
ago only the noise maker was a ten foot bull whip.  I probably wasnÆt as
slow and consistent as I should have been but the end results where a
bit disheartening.  There is an old saying:

DonÆt try to teach a pig to sing
It wastes your time
And annoys the pig

I finally realized I was just annoying the pig.  My desire was to see my
horses completely unconcerned by the sound of the whip.  It might be
possible with some animals, like Scotts mare, or with a ton of continual
effort but my horses were not about to lose what they felt was a
necessary precaution to stay alive.  I wanted to kill their emotional
response.  Sure I should be able to expect them to stay manageable and
not dive out and run but they will always get worked up if they want
to.  As hard as that is I should allow them that.

Secondly, you can not shoot plumb from the back of a horse, unless you
have a specific reason to need to shoot from the horse like those cowboy
shoot contests, it is really unnecessary and unsafe to take the training
to that level.  Mountaineers hunted buffalo horseback but that was from
a pretty short distance and we canÆt hunt that way now.  But, if you
want to do it anyway just to say you have I can admire that too.

I hope to share a trail with you someday

Wynn Ormond


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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:47:26 -0600
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: We won't change because of them

Hello the list,

One of the things our now declared enemies want is to change our lives, our
society, etc.  Well, they aren't gonna succeed.  Some things will change.  I
can promise another airliner will never be taken over by an idiot with a knife!

Anyway, today Ken Stanley and I went scouting beaver trapping areas.  We
were north east of Soda Springs along the trail to Fort Hall.  We saw moose,
deer, forest grouse (pine hens for us mountain guys) and 2 beaver kits.
Folks, it was great.  A beautiful day, in beautiful America.

When all this is over, that America that we all cherise is still there.  And
those folks who want to change our lives, for the worse, are gonna be sadly
disappointed.

On with the battle, the victory, and life!

Waugh!

Allen


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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:45:16 -0600
From: "John L. Allen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA

Thank you, Angela, for your incredibly sensitive post.

My reactions upon reading the well-remembered essay by Sinclair was
virtually the same as yours. And I'm absolutely certain that the publication
of the essay was not intended to convey the message that we in the United
States are ungrateful for the support of our friends--nor was it meant to
suggest that we don't know who those friends are.

I've not watched much TV the last couple of days--it's simply too painful
for me. You see, I had dear friends on two of the fated flights. One a
colleague and friend for 35 years was on the American Airlines Boston-LA
flight; the other a young National Geographic employee who took my Lewis and
Clark seminars in Montana this summer, spent time with me on the Wild and
Scenic portion of the Missouri River, and was on the flight that crashed
into the Pentagon. I can't bring myself to watch another of those admittedly
dramatic pictures of planes smashing into the World Trade Towers or of the
Pentagon in flames knowing that friends were onboard.

But tonight I did watch a portion of a CNN broadcast and saw the changing of
the guard at Buckingham Palace, done to the strains of OUR national anthem.
And I was reminded again that, when the chips are down, we in this country
can always--and I mean always--count on those other countries from whom, to
paraphrase Churchill, we are divided by only a common language.

On behalf of all of us south of the border, thanks to the Canadians for your
perpetual support--not just this week but through the jungles of New
Caledonia, the snows of Korea, and the paddies of Vietnam.

And to our British cousins, who are always the first to align themselves
with us in times of trouble, know that we in the colonies are thankful for
your steadfast friendship.

Finally, I would join Angela in reminding us all that this is not just
America's week to mourn. Those buildings in New York were not called "WORLD
Trade Towers" for nothing. Perhaps as many as 25% of the roughly 5000 people
who will never emerge from the rubble of those building were foreign
nationals working in the United States. Many of them were from Canada; many
from the United Kingdom and from European countries; and, quite likely, a
number of innocent victims from Arab states as well. We need to mourn for
all of them as well as for our own.

John Allen


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela Gottfred" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: A TRIBUTE TO AMERICA


> Dear Friend,
>
> I know that your publication of Gordon Sinclair's essay was well-intended,
> but, as a Canadian, I found it painful. You see, that essay was first
> published, not last week or last year, but nearly thirty years ago. It was
> written in 1973, during the height of the Vietnam War. I don't know if it
> accurately described world opinion then, but it certainly does not
> accurately describe world opinion now.
>
> On Monday night, Calgary's Saddledome hosted the Canadian Country Music
> Awards to a sold-out crowd. Last night, the stranded country music stars
> held a concert, with proceeds to aid the victims of yesterday's terror
> attacks. They raised $65,000 for the Red Cross. It feels good to know that
> everyone is trying to help, yet it also feels like a drop in the bucket...
>
> Canadian Blood Services is having additional hours for blood donation, to
> accommodate all the people who wish to give blood for American victims of
> this unspeakable crime. The British say that, in all likelihood, hundreds
> of British citizens were killed in the WTC attacks. Given the even closer
> ties between Canada and the U.S., Canadian casualties will probably be
> comparable. We know for certain at least one Canadian was killed in one of
> the hijacked planes.
>
> Two hundred and forty-seven American civilian planes were diverted to
> Canada. We are falling all over ourselves to help our unexpected guests. I

> haven't heard a single complaint. When Calgary's hotels were filled to
> capacity, Calgary's new homeless shelter was opened three weeks early to
> accommodate stranded visitors. Again, it feels like a drop in the bucket
> compared to the incredible tragedy you folks are experiencing.
>
> In Germany, there are pro-American demonstrations. In Russia, they are
> laying flowers outside the American Embassy.
>
> All the Canadians I have spoken with, all the "average Canadians" I have
> seen interviewed on the CBC and CTV, agree that this was an incredible
> crime against the United States and democracy and freedom worldwide.
>
> NATO has invoked Article 5 of the NATO agreement, which considers an
attack
> against one Alliance member to be equivalent to an attack against all of
> them. I couldn't agree more. The U.S. was targeted because they are the
> flagbearer for the principles of freedom and democracy that we all believe
> in; it would be cowardly in the extreme for Canada and other member
> countries to have the benefits of NATO membership and American leadership,
> without supporting the U.S. to the hilt when they take the brunt of such
> horrific acts.
>
> Sincerely,
> Angela Gottfred
>
>
>
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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