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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #652 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, October 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 652 In this issue: -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Lanney Ratcliff -áááááá RE: MtMan-List:TOF -áááááá RE: MtMan-List:Outzi -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bordered in black (OT) -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? -áááááá MtMan-List: METIS -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis lang-michif -áááááá MtMan-List: Interesting site. -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Ice Man Information. -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Muzzelloading In South Carolina -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis lang-michif -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? -áááááá MtMan-List: Western Teritorial? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Laguna Mountain Rendezvous -áááááá MtMan-List: Great Mink Caper, Animal Rights caper backfires -áááááá MtMan-List: Charlotte, NC -áááááá MtMan-List: Parks -áááááá MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:52:18 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Lanney Ratcliff This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C034FB.45F69F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt Again your predilection for condescension Lanney, sorry your not feeling well. I hope you get better soon. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C034FB.45F69F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C034FB.375DBE60">  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue = style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> <div class=3DSection1> Walt<o:p></o:p><= /p> Again your predilection for = condescension<o:p></o:p><= /p> <![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p><= /p> <![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p><= /p> Lanney, sorry your not feeling = well. I hope you get better = soon.<o:p></o:p></f= ont> <![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> Walt<o:p></o:p> Original Rocky Mountain College = 1836-1837<o:p></o:p> Clark = Bottom Rendezvous<o:p></o:= p> Yellowst= one Canoe Camp<o:p></o:= p> On the = Lewis & Clark Trail<o= :p></o:p> Park = City, Montana <o:p></o:= p> <= span class=3DEmailStyle22><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> <![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> </div> </body> </html> - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C034FB.45F69F00-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:56:14 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List:TOF Thanks TOF, Your bull elk is riding herd on 14 cows. Yesterday when I went by him = on the way to take my wife to the doctor I could see him bugling while = walking down a cow. He has lost a bunch of weight. Horns look good = though. A nice 6 X 7. Thanks for the helping hand. I checked the options. Thanks. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana=20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:00:27 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List:Outzi I have the original article from the paper at the time of discovery, showing drawings of items and proximity to the body. Be glad to share with anyone interested. Just got to dig it out. Till trails cross Turtle #1199 - ---------------------- Hi Turtle, Besides the Ice Man's bow. One of the things I looked for was his footgear. The documentaries I saw last year on the history channel showed much of his gear in detail. The have been several shows. Each one a bit better than the other in details. Does the article you have talk about his gear? Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:43:24 -0500 From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bordered in black (OT) > My father died last week, after a long and tenacious struggle with cancer. > As a result, I must ask for your understanding & patient indulgence for any > errors or omissions I might make in my postings. Right now, I'm doing fine, > but that's subject to change without notice. In the meantime, I'm enjoying > the discussion on metis. > I'm truly sorry to hear that Angela, I will mention you and your's in my prayers. J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:36:46 -0500 From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? > Seems that you know your stuff. > Thank you. I have worn out a couple of library cards and almost worn out my welcome at a couple of libraries. ;-) > Do you have any books that you would recommend? My information that I have > gotten off the net leads me to believe that the Longhunter period started in > the late 1790 after the indian wars and continued into the early 1800's. It > seemed to be a very short period. > The longhunter period was a short lived period. The great herds of bison, elk and deer were long gone by the1790's. Kentucky had a large enough population to become a state in 1792, or '93, don't remember off hand. Try Seedtime on the Cumberland for a good overview of the longhunters in KY and TN. You might also read Allen Eckert's "Frontier series" of books. Start with the one about the F&I period, don't remember the name, but it's about William Johnson and his rise to fame and fortune before and during the French and Indian War. The best of the lot is the Frontiersman. It's about Simon Kenton and Tecumseh. Eckert's books are a good read for a reasonable overview of the culture of the various periods covered in those books. Be aware that while Eckert did considerable research, his books are historical FICTION, and he did take considerable literary license with the truth. The only reliable parts of Eckert's books are listed in the bibliography. Everything else is FICTION. They are a good read though. Use the bibliography in books and at the end of magazine articles for reference materials. Those books listed in the bib are the source for the information quoted in books and magazines, and you can learn allot just by reading those sources. > When I attend the rendezvous I am usually wearing my deerskin leggins, > breach cloth, mocs along with a home made muslin shirt. My outer coat is > made of duck and it follows the traditional look, very plain. I try to be > as authentic as possible and have had many positive comments from both the > old indians and ol timers on the articles and garments that I have made.. > This does make me feel good but there is always room for inprovement. > Sounds like you pretty well have it together, and that's good. > I believe that my gear to be affective for me has to have medicine. By this > I mean that it must mean something to me. Your gear might mean allot to you and not be effective. The only way you can determine what is effective and what is not effective is to carry that gear in the woods for a few days and see how well it works. You will get some idea of how your gear works by merely trekking, but to really know how well everything works, wear those clothes, and carry that gear while hunting and practicing woodcraft. There are several good books on woodcraft, the best of the lot are; Bushcraft by Graves. Now out of print. Northern Burshcraft, by Mors Kochanski, and the Naked into the Wilderness books by Mc Pherson. >You will not see me carry any > manuf. equipment, excluding the gun and that will change one day. The hawk > I carry was made by a Cherokee friend, the bowie by an old buckskinner, the > leggins leather I got out of a trade for a badgerskin possibles bag that I > made, I later made the leggins. Well, it's OK to make everything yourself, but ya gotta remember that there were certain things that common folks just didn't ordinarily make. Guns was one of them. Knives and hatchets were some others. Most of those Items were traded, but you have the right idea by wanting hand made items. > > I take it more seriously than most but not as serious as some. My biggest > problem now is making a pack that will fit my needs, which are not much. I > have scraped the lean to for a 7x7 foot duck tarp that will be an everything > shelter. Compact, light and very versatile. Lots of folks take this hobby REAL serious and won't use any mass produced gear. I know one person who occasionally wears a hand made hunting shirt made with hand spun linen and wool, and hand woven on a period loom. Notice I said he occasionally wears this hunting shirt. He has about $300 tied up in that one shirt. Too rich for my blood. The 7X7 tarp is fine, if that will keep you dry and out of the wind. I carry a 9X7 tarp that can be set up with one pole in the middle of one side. The front corners are pulled in as tight as possible to the pole and staked down when the weather gets real bad. This set up keeps me snuggy warm and dry in even the worst weather, but most times I just use the tarp as an envelope. I say that this set up Can be done with one pole, but I usually use a 7 ft pole, or two, inside to support the canvas. > > Alot of the sites I visit on the web seem to cater to the mountain man fur > trade and his needs. If you have a site/s that may cater to the southern > gent who ventured up and down the east coast and sometimes ventured out west > to the mountains. I would be interested. Beware of undocumented information on the web. Anyone can post anything. Right or wrong. Run a search on historical trekking, or living history. Those two categories should keep you busy for a while. This web address will give you a good list of reading material. Hope you have a good library near by. ;-) http://www.hawkcommunications.com/liming/alra/ J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:10:26 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: MtMan-List: METIS Beam me up Scotty ! Or, just stick a fork in me, cause I'm almost done ! Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:06:28 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis lang-michif Would this make me a "metis"? >>Mr. Kent, Huh, No. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:59:11 -0600 From: Buck Conner <conner1@uswest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Interesting site. - --------------855286D2760B4150C14E22EA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought you might be interested in this site, HREF="http://www.usflag.org/toc.flags.html" Later, Barry "Buck" Conner Resource & Documentation for: ______________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers". ________________________________________HRD__ Visit my camp at: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Aux Aliments de Pays! ______________________________________________ - --------------855286D2760B4150C14E22EA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Thought you might be interested in this site, HREF="<A HREF="http://www.usflag.org/toc.flags.html">http://www.usflag.org/toc.flags.html</A>" Later, Barry "Buck" Conner Resource & Documentation for: ______________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers". ________________________________________HRD__ Visit my camp at: <A HREF="http://pages.about.com/buckconner/">http://pages.about.com/buckconner/</A> Aux Aliments de Pays! ______________________________________________ </html> - --------------855286D2760B4150C14E22EA-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:11:02 -0600 From: Buck Conner <conner1@uswest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Ice Man Information. - --------------EF13745052B6427C291BF48F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt Foster wrote: > I have the original article from the paper at the time of discovery, showing > drawings of items and proximity to the body. Be glad to share with anyone > interested. Just got to dig it out. > > Till trails cross > > Turtle #1199 > > ---------------------- > > Hi Turtle, > > Besides the Ice Man's bow. One of the things I looked for was his footgear. > The documentaries I saw last year on the history channel showed much of his > gear in detail. The have been several shows. Each one a bit better than > the other in details. > > Does the article you have talk about his gear? > > Walt Hey Turtle, I have received e-mails about this "Ice Man" off list from members of this list that didn't want to start a "thread" that some where not interested in. Seems to be several interested in your article, let me know the cost of copying it and postage to Colorado, I'll send you the funds and copy it to an e-mail so those interested can enjoy this great find, then after we are done reviewing it we can talk about this early mountain man being more knowledgeable of him and his wares. From there we could compare the items he carried with what we have and how his or our period items maybe alike or better and so on. Could be we may find he knew something our forefather's slipped up on or then again improved on, could be lengthy and we may need to go off list and discuss this between ourselves if not everyone is interested. Later, Barry "Buck" Conner Resource & Documentation for: ______________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers". ________________________________________HRD__ Visit my camp at: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Aux Aliments de Pays! ______________________________________________ - --------------EF13745052B6427C291BF48F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Walt Foster wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>I have the original article from the paper at the time of discovery, showing drawings of items and proximity to the body. Be glad to share with anyone interested. Just got to dig it out. Till trails cross Turtle #1199 ---------------------- Hi Turtle, Besides the Ice Man's bow. One of the things I looked for was his footgear. The documentaries I saw last year on the history channel showed much of his gear in detail. The have been several shows. Each one a bit better than the other in details. Does the article you have talk about his gear? Walt</blockquote> Hey Turtle, I have received e-mails about this "Ice Man" off list from members of this list that didn't want to start a "thread" that some where not interested in. Seems to be several interested in your article, let me know the cost of copying it and postage to Colorado, I'll send you the funds and copy it to an e-mail so those interested can enjoy this great find, then after we are done reviewing it we can talk about this early mountain man being more knowledgeable of him and his wares. From there we could compare the items he carried with what we have and how his or our period items maybe alike or better and so on. Could be we may find he knew something our forefather's slipped up on or then again improved on, could be lengthy and we may need to go off list and discuss this between ourselves if not everyone is interested. Later, Barry "Buck" Conner Resource & Documentation for: ______________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers". ________________________________________HRD__ Visit my camp at: <A HREF="http://pages.about.com/buckconner/">http://pages.about.com/buckconner/</A> Aux Aliments de Pays! ______________________________________________ </html> - --------------EF13745052B6427C291BF48F-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:04:03 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzelloading In South Carolina Possum Hunter, Tell me more about this bunch of mtn. men around the upstate here! - -C. Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:20:52 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis lang-michif Just wondering, Pendleton. Guess you, huh, told me, huh? - -C. Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:49:02 -0700 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? The biggest and probably the best is the Alafia, that will be held 3rd to 4th weekend -Jan 2001, near Tampa, Fla. http://members.xoom.com/manyscalps/indexpre1840.htm Larger than the Southeastern. Linda Holley HikingOnThru@cs.com wrote: > Frank, do you know of any ronnywous or period re-enactment events happening > in the south...I am just up the road in upstate SC and would like to attend > some and look around before I get into buying or making peeeriod clothes. > > -C. Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 07:55:40 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Western Teritorial? Gentelmen, When and where is the Western Teritorial, I can't locate my Mocasin Mail? YMOS Ole #718 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:59:41 -0400 From: tom roberts <troberts@gdi.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laguna Mountain Rendezvous Barney, Please provide location details. I know how to find Julian. Tom LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > Hello the camp... A grand event coming up 10/18 through 10/22, in the > northern San Diego county area of Southern California, near Julian. > It's primitive, but not a 'juried' event; we run this one to help 'greenies' > get started. > > Anybody from either list that's going to be attending? Have an interest in > having a list members get-together? Let me know, here or offline, and we can > post a meetin' notice on the bulletin board at the entrance to camp... > > Ralph (Barney Fife aka Shoots Himself aka Hole-In-Arm) > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:22:38 -0400 From: Jim Lockmiller <manbear@netonecom.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Great Mink Caper, Animal Rights caper backfires I received this in my e-mail this morning and, knowing the problems that we re-enactors sometimes have with Animal Rights people, I had to pass it on....LOL Manbear > In August at several mink farms in England, animal rights activists > surreptitiously "liberated" 6,000 of the aggressive, unruly animals. In > the following weeks came dozens of reports of minks killing pets (dogs, > cats, hamsters), chickens, birds in a sanctuary and endangered water > voles. Many minks themselves were killed, either by people protecting > their own animals or in fights with other minks, and some minks were > said to have died of the stress of being released into the wild. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:28:11 -0500 From: "Jody & Scott" <sjsdm@conpoint.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Charlotte, NC Esteemed List Members, I will be finding myself in Charlotte, NC, over the weekend of the 21st-22nd, October... Is there anything there abouts that I should be sure to see? I will have all of Sunday to myself, and I am interested to find a museum or such to visit. In advance, I thank you, Scott C sjsdm@conpoint.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:24:34 EDT From: Rkleinx2@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Parks Trappers knew certain locales in present Colorado as North Park, Middle Park and South Park. Would someone please idenify these places for me by naming a town that is in each of these 'Parks'. ( Or any other suitable method such as township etc.). Thank you. Dick - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:55:35 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men Maybe one of you coons out there can answer me a question. I was hiking today with a hiking buddy who used to sponsor a few ronnys at his place (and has some fantastic custom flinters by the way) and the term "Eastern Mtn. Man" (not long hunter) wsa used to describe their persona. Does anyone know the difference between the Eastern vs. Western Mtn. Men? Also, when is the chat group held and what time! Thanks! - -C. Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:24:02 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men Does anyone know > the difference between the Eastern vs. Western Mtn. Men? C. Kent, Not to be flippent but basicly the Western Mtn. Men were the Eastern Mtn. Men gone west. The eastern mt. man might be classed with any group of frontiersmen that roamed the eastern woodlands and mountains beyond the edge of civilization up to and including the start of the Rocky Mt. Fur Trade on or about the time of Capt.s Lewis and Clarks return. The eastern mt. man in the guise of several members of that expedition went with the Capt.s as hunters and etc. The titles only serve to separate the grounds on which such men roamed. Their mode's of operation changed some what with the changing needs of their suroundings and the connections with commercial enterprise and such but generally, I believe they are basicly the same people perhaps separated by the span of time and changes in fashion and gear to a small degree. One might see small differences in clothing and gear but not that great a difference. Foot travel might have been more common amongst the eastern mtn. man but horses were used. The western mtn. man by necessity was mounted or looking for his next horse. Because of that difference there was a difference in what was carried to a point though I don't think personal gear was all that different. The guns weren't all that different until late in the RMFT era when they started to become short bbls with half stocks and very late in the eara, percussion. The clothing was a bit different though it is hard to know exactly what was worn since very little other than contemporary paintings and some few written discriptions exist and they are all under suspicion for one reason or another. Generally I think we have gotten it wrong for the most part in the past history of modern buckskinning. Well, anyway the list has been quiet so perhaps this will stir things up a bit. <G> Always good for an opinion, I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' What chat group? There's a bunch of us getting together tonight in Hermiston to chat with our long lost Brother, Mssr. Ron Petrie lately from Manila, where he has been posted to do government business and sell our furs sent out from Astoria, but it is a closed party. <G> - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #652 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.