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hist_text-digest        Tuesday, July 18 2000        Volume 01 : Number 593



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá MtMan-List: fort orleans found
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found
-áááááá MtMan-List: Mark Twain on James Fenimore Cooper
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found
-áááááá MtMan-List: L&C and ongoing Univ. Projects
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Man Made Mobile
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: L&C and ongoing Univ. Projects
-áááááá MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1980 12:08:36 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Lee Newbill asked:
>The question..... since my persona is a NWCo employee, for whom spanish
>saddles and hope saddles would not have been an likely choice, would the
>"designed for the field" plantation type saddle be more correct for a
>1810 Scot over the standard "general purpose" Stubben (english
>saddle) that I now use?

Are you a wintering partner or a laboring man? If the former, there is one
piece of firm documentation for an English saddle.  Alexander Henry the
Younger noted "...they [Big Bellies] appeared eager also to have the two
Saddles and Bridles which belonged to Mr. Chaboillez, and myself as they
were of European manufacture and I really believe had a favourable
opportunity presented itself, they would have stolen them..." 28 July 1806,
Mandan villages (Gough 1:278)

As for saddles used by the men, here is the little that I have found about
NWCo saddles in my reading; perhaps it will be helpful to you, since you
probably know  more about saddles than I do.

"[Mr. King] says that some weeks ago his Hunters saw the Crapaud (La
France's murderer) returning from some of the Forts of Upper Fort des
Prairies with 3 stone [Assiniboine] Indians, & that they had fifteen
Horses, & all saddled with saddles made by our people. among the Saddles
were one with Iron Stirrups..." Ft. Alexandria, 1800 --  A. N. McLeod's
journal, North West Co. (Gates, 143)

"Men repairing their saddles, etc., to go hunting ; others racing their
horses." Ft. Vermilion, Oct. 1, 1809-- Alexander Henry the Younger's
journal (Henry & Coues, 2:548)

"Assigned to two Men 3 Horses with their Furniture consisting of each Horse
1 Saddle, Saddle stuff [horse blankets?], cords for the Lead, & their Load,
weighing abt 130 lbs." Kootenay Plains area, June 25, 1807 -- David
Thompson's journal (Belyea, 46)

"...having procured a saddle from the good old [Native] Man, we set off."
Kullyspell Ho., 1809 -- David Thompson's journal (Belyea, 115)

"[Assiniboins, Rapid Indians, Blackfeet and Mandans, together with all the
other Indians who inhabit a plain country] do not often use bridles, but
guide their horses with halters, made of ropes, which are manufactured from
the hair of the buffaloe, which are very strong and durable. On the back of
the horse, they put a dressed buffalo skin, on the top of which, they place
a pad, from which are suspended stirrups, made of wood, and covered with
the skin of the testicles of the buffaloe." 1820 -- Daniel Harmon's
reminiscences (Harmon & Lamb, 212-213)

Thompson's men make horse collars when building Kullyspell House. 1809.
(Belyea, 109)

"..the two men returned with four Kootanae Indians and seven Horses ; with
their funiture of saddles, lines and saddle cloth of the Bison hides...the
next day, having gone five miles we came to the camp of the Kootanes, and
traded five Horses with their furniture and twenty dressed leather skins of
the Red Deer" May 19, 1811--Thompson's Narrative (Glover & Thompson, 330)

Clear as mud?! If you want the full references on any of these quotes, just
ask.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:23:53 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: fort orleans found

    Just a thought on dig-up and finders-keepers laws. Louisiana laws are
founded on Napoleanic law.  The rest of the U.S. is founded on English
common law.
    They do lots of things different in LA. They have private police and
private judges for large landowners and they are fully enforceable and
legal.
    So what might apply in Wisconsin could get you fed to the gators in
Cajun land.
    I ain't no eekspurt, just cogitatin' a bit.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:23:11 -0700
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

>From "Man Made Mobile"...

   "Many of the Spanish saddles that the American Fur Company  obtained in
St. Louis in the 1830s seem to have had padding on the undersurfaces of the
saddleboards, at least at the time of purchase".
(Page 50)
John Funk


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:55:48 -0500
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found

Hi Frank, Hawk was talking about Federal law that would prevent people from
"removing any item they found that was over 100 yrs. old without notifying
federal officials". I know that some states have laws that are similar to
that, some are more liberal, but no federal law exists that states that to
my knowledge. Even the state laws that prevent people from digging on there
own property are just waiting for a court battle to overturn them. I like
the fact that this country as a whole gives high regard to individuals
rights. I have a friend in Indiana that had bought a piece of property to
specifically dig a historic site that was located on it, and subsequent to
that the state passed a law that prevented him form legally doing it. He
said he was going to fight it, fortunately he has the money to do it. There
are many people in the archeological community that would love to see a
federal policy enacted that would do what Hawk was describing. That would be
a sad day for everyone who is interested in learning more about history who
is not an archeologist. If you look back in history a great amount of
research has been done by "non- professional archeologists" who do it
because they enjoy it. I'll bet 90% of all important sites that are known
today be it prehistoric or historic have been discovered by amateurs. For
instance, I love to look for arrowheads and Indian artifacts in tilled
fields when I have the opportunity. If there was such a law as Hawk was
describing, it would be illegal to pick up an arrowhead. Even if it was
going to be destroyed. Boy, just don't get me going on this subject I always
end amazed at the way some people think. I have several friends who are "old
time" archeologists, some who have excavated the most important sites that
exist in the Midwest, and they feel the same way as I do regarding this
issue. A lot of changes have occurred in the last 20-30 yrs., many not for
the better. All in the name of "preserving" our heritage, when what is
ultimately happening is only a select few get to enjoy and learn. Even worse
yet in some instances valuable materials are being destroyed, look at the
Kenniwick man out in the northwest.

Hope all is well with you,
Tony Clark


- -----Original Message-----
From: Frank Fusco <[e-mail]>
To: AMM <[e-mail]>
Date: July 16, 2000 2:24 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: fort orleans found


>    Just a thought on dig-up and finders-keepers laws. Louisiana laws are
>founded on Napoleanic law.  The rest of the U.S. is founded on English
>common law.
>    They do lots of things different in LA. They have private police and
>private judges for large landowners and they are fully enforceable and
>legal.
>    So what might apply in Wisconsin could get you fed to the gators in
>Cajun land.
>    I ain't no eekspurt, just cogitatin' a bit.
>Frank G. Fusco
>Mountain Home, Arkansas
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: S Jones <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mark Twain on James Fenimore Cooper

Mark Twain HATED 'The Last of the Mohicans' by Cooper.
Here's an excerpt from his essay.

Twain's Rules of Writing
(from Mark Twain's scathing essay on the Literary
Offenses of James Fenimore Cooper)
1. A tale shall accomplish something and arrive
somewhere.
2. The episodes of a tale shall be necessary parts of
the tale, and shall help develop it.
3. The personages in a tale shall be alive, except in
the case of corpses, and that always the reader shall
be able to tell the corpses from the others.
4. The personages in a tale, both dead and alive,
shall exhibit a sufficient excuse for being there.
5. When the personages of a tale deal in conversation,
the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such
as human beings would be likely to talk in the given
circumstances, and have a discoverable meaning, also a
discoverable purpose, and a show of relevancy, and
remain in the neighborhood of the subject in hand, and
be interesting to the reader, and help out the tale,
and stop when the people cannot think of anything more
to say.
6. When the author describes the character of a
personage in his tale, the conduct and conversation of
that personage shall justify said description.
7. When a personage talks like an illustrated,
gilt-edged, tree-calf, hand-tooled, seven-dollar
Friendship's Offering in the beginning of a paragraph,
he shall not talk like a Negro minstrel at the end of
it.
8. Crass stupidities shall not be played upon the
reader by either the author or the people in the tale.

9. The personages of a tale shall confine themselves
to possibilities and let miracles alone; or, if they
venture a miracle, the author must so plausably set it
forth as to make it look possible and reasonable.
10. The author shall make the reader feel a deep
interest in the personages of his tale and their fate;
and that he shall make the reader love the good people
in the tale and hate the bad ones.
11. The characters in tale be so clearly defined that
the reader can tell beforehand what each will do in a
given emergency.
An author should
12. _Say_ what he is proposing to say, not merely come
near it.
13. Use the right word, not its second cousin.
14. Eschew surplusage.
15. Not omit necessary details.
16. Avoid slovenliness of form.
17. Use good grammar.
18. Employ a simple, straightforward style.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Lee,

In answer to your questions (although they may have already been answered by
other posts) the "Saddles" book is excellent and along with "Man Made
Mobile" they are the 2 best books on the topic I have been able to find.

Regarding your question about plantation saddles, I believe they were used
primarily in the South.  Plantations were rather large and spread across
large distances.  As a result the Saddlebread breed of horse was developed
that could cover long distances without getting fatigued (kind of like the
way ome riders do endurance riding today.)  This saddle was used so as to be
more comfortable on these rides.  I saw a picture of one recently on E-Bay
and it kind of looked like a cross between a McCellan and an Australian saddle.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
________________________________________________________________________________

At 05:07 PM 07/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Good Day All.
>
>Been digging around a wee bit.  Finally got ahold of a copy of "Man Made
>Mobile" out of the musty archives of the University of Idaho.  Pretty
>amazing that out of 1.5 million books, we only have one on saddles.
>
>Couple of things I learned.
>
>The english saddle as is in use today has changed almost not at all in 200
>years in shape.  I wish I could have seen how the stirrups were attached
>on the early 1800's print, but of course it didna show that part.  I did
>find out the the old hardware was iron, not steel, but that is not much of
>a surprise.
>
>The indian saddle I was planning on making for myself, is a plain's
>indian Woman's saddle, so I'll scrap that for now, but will work on one
>later hopefully, since I already have the wood and rawhide for it.
>
>On another note, I've been trying to find the origin of "plantation
>saddles", and run out of info about mid 19th century, although prints as
>early as the 16th century show similiar style saddles.  This saddle is
>more condusive to life in the bush than the english saddles I own, with
>brass loops for attachments, and it's own style of saddlebags, which, by
>the way, are big and roomy.  It also has a higher cantle and deeper seat
>providing for a more stable seat than the traditional english saddle.
>
>The question..... since my persona is a NWCo employee, for whom spanish
>saddles and hope saddles would not have been an likely choice, would the
>"designed for the field" plantation type saddle be more correct for a
>1810 Scot over the standard "general purpose" Stubben (english
>saddle) that I now use?
>
>Hopefully, someone can point the way towards better information than what
>I have.
>
>Your Most Obedient Servant...
>
>Lee Newbill of North Idaho
>Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
>www.geocities.com/northscribe
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:43:49 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fort orleans found

northwoods and frank
just went back to my treasure hunting book and believe in what i was
reading that the individual that bought property only for the reason of
excavating artifacts may be on thin ice ---that would be a good court
fight and would probably depend on who had the most time and money to
spend---

BTW---the archological protection act of 1979 (16 U.S.C. 470aa-470mm)as
set forth herein consists of public law 96-96(october 31 1979) with
amendments hereto.

sugest you also look at the department of the interior technical brief
dated june of 1991 in it it states that if a state feels that a site has
any historical or archological merit that the state can and should obtain
a court order to cease and disist any digging or removal of any
historical articles---and it lists a bunch of things that is felt to be
historical----its really what ever the state agency wants to do---they
have a pretty open ended federal statute and usually promote state
statutes that supplement or give additional teeteh into the laws---


believe you need to go to the library and see if they have the paper back
book "treasure laws of the united states"   complies by R.W. "DOC"
Grim---it has a IBSN # 0-9636458-0-3

before your friend starts to dig on that ground I would suggest he go to
a lawyer in the area and also write to state and county government asking
what is the law in reference to doing as he will do---bet he has a rude
awakining---

Just my humbel opinion of course---but things really have changed in this
area of thinking since the mid 80's---can be some real big fines and
there is no excuse for ignorance in the law---that is what I have been
told that is---dan anderson and I were prospecting on federal ground in
NM and the blm guys went thru my moter home like a dose of epson salt
unloaded everything searched all mineral samples to include pouring them
out on a blanket---about 4---to 5 hrs they took and didnt find anything
out of place---we even had our metal detector permits or they would have
taken our metal detectors---we got the permits from the state---and we
were camped on privet land---

this whole subject is like eagle feathers and endangered animal
parts---no winners for a individual
again---just my humbel opinion of course--
     YMHOSANT
        =+=
    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684        Phone Number:  1-727-771-1815
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: L&C and ongoing Univ. Projects

Hallo

Sorry 'bout the semi-private mail on a public format, but I don't have
Larry Pendleton's address... and besides, this might be of interest to
those along the L&C trail.

Larry... I checked into the L&C project at the Univ of Idaho, am still
waiting to hear back from Dr. Kennedy.  I got picked off by her secretary
when I called to check with her.  Mean woman.

I'm thinking this project is similiar to the project at Washington State
University, where the Educational departments are using the Lewis & Clark
experiance as a lead in to teaching natural science, math, etc., with
emphasis on how they got there, and what they discovered along the
way.  Our local BP club, the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders, just finished
working with the Ed dept of Washington State U on a similiar project... a
"teach the teachers" type of deal.  The local newspaper even did up an
article on it, which can be found at http://members.xoom.com/HogHeavenML

I'll keep you posted when I manage to get through to the good Doctor
herself.

Incidently, this is grant money they are working with.... and our club
scores a couple of hundred American Greenbacks in "honoraiums" per
assist, as well as a free meal.  Something to think about for those
looking to raise money for their party/club.

Also, anyone besides me catch Mark Weadick on channel six last
night?  Apparently, they did a camp over by the old site of Spokane House,
and Mark got to do a "Cameo" appearance while talking about living
history.

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:58:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Man Made Mobile

On Sat, 15 Jul 2000, John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:
> If I'm not mistaken, Man Made Mobile (Smithsonian Institution Press) IS in
> reprint.

John

Thanks for the info.... will check 'er out and see if I can find a
webaddress for them.

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Hallo Again

Appreciate all the leads on the two books I'm after, y'all have given me
multiple avenues to try.... thanks!  Now... to pry the charge card from me
wife's wallet!

On Wed, 16 Jul 1980, Angela Gottfred wrote:
> Are you a wintering partner or a laboring man?

Hi Angela

Working on the persona of a wintering Clerk of Scottish descent, since
they were lettered and relatively abundant from my readings, lot of
nephews in the business it seems<G>

The saddle is an interesting dilema, in that there were many types
floating around, from those made at the posts by the NWCo workers, to
those purchased from the local tribes, which, I think, would have included
the plain's indian riding saddle, and the woman's saddle.  However, being
of sound mind and not yet feeble body, I have no interest in trusting my
rear-end to the rigors of a "plank" saddle on a week-long ride.  To my
knowledge, there are no surviving examples of "post made saddles".

Jerry Zaslow did write.....
> Regarding your question about plantation saddles, I believe they were
> used primarily in the South.
> This saddle was used so as to be more comfortable on these rides.  I saw
> a picture of one recently on E-Bay and it kind of looked like a cross
> between a McCellan and an Australian saddle.

While I was a hoping that the plantation saddles were not just a
southern US product, between what I've read, and Jerry's last
email, it doesn't appear they were in this area... so it's back to what a
middlin clerk could afford/get.... it's really too bad, the upper end
plantation saddles looked might comfy.

Funny thing, I was really surprised to find out the horns on western style
saddles, go back a long, long way.  Thought that it was a hope saddle
original idea.

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe





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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:13:57 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C and ongoing Univ. Projects

Thanks Lee !  Keep me posted sir.
Secretary is a mean woman huh ?  Oh well !  hell hath no fury like a . . . .
.   <GG>
LP
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
To: Mountain Man List <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, July 17, 2000 2:53 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: L&C and ongoing Univ. Projects


Hallo

Sorry 'bout the semi-private mail on a public format, but I don't have
Larry Pendleton's address... and besides, this might be of interest to
those along the L&C trail.

Larry... I checked into the L&C project at the Univ of Idaho, am still
waiting to hear back from Dr. Kennedy.  I got picked off by her secretary
when I called to check with her.  Mean woman.

I'm thinking this project is similiar to the project at Washington State
University, where the Educational departments are using the Lewis & Clark
experiance as a lead in to teaching natural science, math, etc., with
emphasis on how they got there, and what they discovered along the
way.  Our local BP club, the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders, just finished
working with the Ed dept of Washington State U on a similiar project... a
"teach the teachers" type of deal.  The local newspaper even did up an
article on it, which can be found at http://members.xoom.com/HogHeavenML

I'll keep you posted when I manage to get through to the good Doctor
herself.

Incidently, this is grant money they are working with.... and our club
scores a couple of hundred American Greenbacks in "honoraiums" per
assist, as well as a free meal.  Something to think about for those
looking to raise money for their party/club.

Also, anyone besides me catch Mark Weadick on channel six last
night?  Apparently, they did a camp over by the old site of Spokane House,
and Mark got to do a "Cameo" appearance while talking about living
history.

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:30:13 -0600
From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEFE2.5FAD3F20
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Lee=20

At Utah State University you can make copies of pages of books quite =
cheaply. How they get around copy right laws I do not know but it saved =
my ..... doing research. If your university works the same, you could =
skim through Man Made Mobile and get copies of only pages that apply to =
your interests. Adds up to a couple bucks, your wife wont even miss it.

Keep us informed of where your research leads. Many of us are traveling =
similar trails

YMOS

WY


- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEFE2.5FAD3F20
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>Dear Lee</FONT> </P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>At Utah State University you can make copies of pages of books quite =
cheaply.=20
How they get around copy right laws I do not know but it saved my ..... =
doing=20
research. If your university works the same, you could skim through Man =
Made=20
Mobile and get copies of only pages that apply to your interests. Adds =
up to a=20
couple bucks, your wife wont even miss it.</P>
<P>Keep us informed of where your research leads. Many of us are =
traveling=20
similar trails</P>
<P>YMOS</P>
<P>WY</P></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEFE2.5FAD3F20--


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:
>    "Many of the Spanish saddles that the American Fur Company  obtained in
> St. Louis in the 1830s seem to have had padding on the undersurfaces of the
> saddleboards, at least at the time of purchase".

Hallo John

Reading the notes of a professional saddlemaker (contemporary), he states
that his first Hope saddles didn't have any thing between them and the
pad, but he changed over and started putting fleece on the underside.  The
reason he did this was because without the fleece, the saddles had a
tendacy to "wander" on the horse's back.  The fleece apparently
"locks" the saddle to the pad/blanket

Having been the recipiant of at least one "wandering" saddle on a round
backed horse, I can understand why it's there<G>

Which brings me to a second question that I hadn't even thought
of... saddle blankets.  How many of y'all throw a Hudson's or a Witney
under the saddle?  What are you using?

For what it's worth....

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe



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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:59:37 -0700
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Lee,
Whitney's or a Hudson Bay is a good choice for a saddle blanket.  The pure
wool aspect serves as great protection and comfort for the critter. That's
assuming you don't mind sleeping with a little horse sweat at night.

I have an old hand tanned sheep hide I've used on occasion and also have a
4x5 section of Buff. hide which works well also.  The hide serves as a good
ground pad for sleeping at night.   The Olde Ones used Buff Hide
("apishamore, epishamore, apishemeau, or opishomo",  take your historical
pick of spellings).  They were among the first to use "pads" of sorts under
their saddles.  Seems the military  (Lt. Col. Kearney) ceased using the
"underpadding" in favor of a blanket once they saw how well it served the
mountaineers.  They, too, found that the "padding" incorporated on the
Spanish saddles deteriorated in short order.  Kearney also declared that his
men "would sit upon a blanket,
"properly folded" and secured by a surcingle atop the tree". (Man Made
Mobile)

John Funk


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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:44:23 -0600
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Lee,
    I usually don't use a big wool blanket under a saddle, seen
them slip too often with all that folds.I have used a smaller wool
blanket (about 3 pts.) before and it didn't do bad. I folded it
different, made it set wider than the pad and it worked fine. Sure
keeps down the bulk. And saves room in the pack or behind
the horse. But have seen alot of other guys try it and decided to pull off
the blanket not far down the trail. I guess it is like alot of things, some
work for individuals, some don't. I use a nice pad and a thick saddle
blanket when riding, just like to protect the horse (but those two  pieces
are nice to sleep on at night too!).
                                                            mike.

Lee Newbill wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:
> >    "Many of the Spanish saddles that the American Fur Company  obtained in
> > St. Louis in the 1830s seem to have had padding on the undersurfaces of the
> > saddleboards, at least at the time of purchase".
>
> Hallo John
>
> Reading the notes of a professional saddlemaker (contemporary), he states
> that his first Hope saddles didn't have any thing between them and the
> pad, but he changed over and started putting fleece on the underside.  The
> reason he did this was because without the fleece, the saddles had a
> tendacy to "wander" on the horse's back.  The fleece apparently
> "locks" the saddle to the pad/blanket
>
> Having been the recipiant of at least one "wandering" saddle on a round
> backed horse, I can understand why it's there<G>
>
> Which brings me to a second question that I hadn't even thought
> of... saddle blankets.  How many of y'all throw a Hudson's or a Witney
> under the saddle?  What are you using?
>
> For what it's worth....
>
> Your Most Obedient Servant...
>
> Lee Newbill of North Idaho
> Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
> www.geocities.com/northscribe
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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