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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #507 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, March 25 2000 Volume 01 : Number 507 In this issue: -áááááá MtMan-List: BEAR.berry... -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: BEAR.berry... -áááááá MtMan-List: <no subject> -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: snakes and beaver (as food) -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: <no subject> -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" -áááááá MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" -áááááá MtMan-List: Saddles? -áááááá MtMan-List: Dogs? you'll want to read this one -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? -áááááá MtMan-List: Blue Willow Ware? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:59:13 -0600 From: Mike Rock <mikerock@mhtc.net> Subject: MtMan-List: BEAR.berry... Laura... Bearberry is sure different from beriberi... Try some of the inner bark of the red osier..get it before the first thunderstorm... I scraped a sackfull for the people in SD a few years ago, and they loved it. The 'thunderstorm' timing is so that the taste is still sweet, not bitter and acrid. It must be early in the season, before budding. In the same manner as when tapping maple, you have to stop when the trees bud out...the sap, and the syrup taste pretty treelike then..not good at all. Mike - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:52:45 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BEAR.berry... Good Post Mike, Around here there is about a 3 week span while it works good. Walt Park City, Montana > Try some of the inner bark of the red osier..get it before the first > thunderstorm... I scraped a sackfull for the people in SD a few years > ago, and they loved it. The 'thunderstorm' timing is so that the taste > is still sweet, not bitter and acrid. It must be early in the season, > before budding. In the same manner as when tapping maple, you have to > stop when the trees bud out...the sap, and the syrup taste pretty > treelike then..not good at all.> Mike - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:07:14 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: <no subject> Hello the Camp! It has been a couple of weeks since I put up anything, but now I have a question. I remember someone posting comments about blue willow ceramics that were dug up in a Hudson Bay Trading Fort in the north west, could someone tell me more about it and describe what it looked like exactly. YMOS Ole - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:07:50 -0500 From: traprjon@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: snakes and beaver (as food) Ho the list, I have eaten Bull snake in the mid west, and Milk snake here in New Hampshire. I found both very tasty and would prefer it to a lot of other things I have eaten. They are easy to gut, skin and butcher, cook well over an open fire or home grill, and the skin is reasonably easy to tan for hat bands etc. The White Mountain Party is holdin a Beaver trappin camp this weekend and beaver is on the menu. I will write an article for the T&LR hopefully with pictures, and will humbly submit it for publication soon after the doin's. I agree with what has been said about modern upbringing and thinking about what is food and what is not. If this thinking can be overcome, there be good food in the sources our period Brothers found. My 2 cents worth. Trap-R-John AMM - White Mountain Party "Don't compromise on your civil rights, they are yours!!! Stand up for what's right!!!" On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:33:08 PST "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com> writes: > I have eaten many a pound of rattlesnake here in southern Oklahoma. > We used > to make a special trip to the annual rattlesnake hunts in Waurika, > and > Waynoka, just for the purpose. > I have eaten the flesh of a lot of critters that live in this part > of the > country, and only find the possum offensive. The taste is fine, but > once I > saw several possums dragging the entrails out of a several day dead > cow, it > was too much for this child to handle. > Of course taste is relative to hunger, and dog looks mighty good > when > stacked up next to possum and sweet potato's. Can't say that I have > eaten > domestic dog, but who knows when you have camped with Joe "Stray > Dog" > Curtis. I have had a coyote or two, weren't awful, but could have > done > without it. > Cliff > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:19:15 -0500 From: traprjon@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" Anytime I have shipped raw dried and streched beaver, I lay down the first hide fur up then the second goes on top of the first fur down, the third hide down etc. The object being to put the fur sides together and the skin sides together. I suspect the mountain men did this before pressing and bailing their furs, but haven't seen references to this. Maybe someone has more info. Trap-R-John YMHOS AMM - White Mountain Party "Don't compromise on your civil rights, they are yours!!! Stand up for what's right!!!" On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:29:40 PST "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com> writes: > I am interested in putting together two beaver bales or packs. Any > information on how to do this?? > I have seen several references to 100# packs. If an average plew > weighs 1 > 1/2 pounds it would take over 120 hides to make two bales. I have > several > hides but no where near 120, so I was thinking of using a false > center, such > as burlap or something to get the right feel and weight. Then I > could add > more hides and take out the burlap as I caught more beaver. > I assume the hides were folded in some fashion, with the rawhide > side out, > then pressed and bound with rawhide. Any ideas????? > > Cliff Tiffie > PO Box 5089 > Durant, OK > 74702 > 580-924-4187 > --------------------- > Aux Aliments de Pays! > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:43:19 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: <no subject> I posted it, Ole. I was doing research back in the early 1980s and ran across it. Found it in the library at Weber. Can't remember now which book it was, but I'm sure they still have it (they never get rid of anything!). But Dick James can probably quote you chapter and verse. Bill - -----Original Message----- From: Ole B. Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> To: hist_text <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 6:08 AM Subject: MtMan-List: <no subject> >Hello the Camp! >It has been a couple of weeks since I put up anything, but now I have a >question. I remember someone posting comments about blue willow ceramics >that were dug up in a Hudson Bay Trading Fort in the north west, could >someone tell me more about it and describe what it looked like exactly. >YMOS >Ole > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:40:04 -0600 From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" - -----Original Message----- From: traprjon@juno.com <traprjon@juno.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: March 24, 2000 9:22 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" >Anytime I have shipped raw dried and streched beaver, I lay down the >first hide fur up then the second goes on top of the first fur down, the >third hide down etc. The object being to put the fur sides together and >the skin sides together. I suspect the mountain men did this before >pressing and bailing their furs, but haven't seen references to this. I believe that is generally the way they did it. I know I read that they often placed a bear hide as the last fur so it acted as a cover. It was very important to have some sort of very durable cover on the packs. It took about 80 beaver to make a 100# pack. northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:35:39 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF9574.51209CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cliff Tiffie wrote: I am interested in putting together two beaver bales or packs. Any = information on how to do this?? We have been in company with multitudes of emigrants the whole day. The = road has been lined to a long extent with their wagons, whose white = covers, glittering in the sunlight, resembled, at a distance, ships upon = the ocean. We passed a company from Boston, consisting of seventy = persons, one hundred and forty pack and riding mules, a number of riding = horses, and a drove of cattle for beef. The expedition, as might be = expected, and as is to generally the case, was badly conducted: the = mules were overloaded, and the manner of securing and arranging the = packs elicited many a sarcastic criticism from our party, most of whom = were old mountain-men, with whom the making of a pack and the loading of = a mule amounted to a science. Southcentral Nebraska. June 12, 1849 Captain Howard Stansbury Army topographical engineer=20 Welcome to science class if'n you want to figure out how a mountaineer = made his bales. I have seen several references to 100# packs Here is my two cents. A bale is half a load on a pack animal. A 200# = load on a 700-900# animal is real heavy. Not that it was not done but it = is sure pushing it. Most sources say to figure between 10% and 15% body = weight if you plan for a long haul.=20 If an average plew weighs 1 1/2 pounds it would take over 120 hides to = make two bales. Is this correct? Since you have some I assume you would know, but I = thought they would be heavier than that. I assume the hides were folded in some fashion, with the rawhide side = out, then pressed and bound with rawhide. Any ideas????? A pack could be pretty wide (say 36"+/-) and real tall (say 48" well = maybe not that tall with short horses). Run a rope (rawhide very = possibly) around the load vertically with the honda at the top and then = throwing half hitches down horizontally every 6 to 12 inches then = running the rope back under the load and tying off at the top. Pull = tight every step of the way. I can not claim whether this is historical = but it sure ties up a load. Perhaps that is something else to research. Keep us updated on your discoveries. YMOS WY - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF9574.51209CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Cliff Tiffie wrote: I am interested in putting together two beaver bales or packs. Any=20 information on how to do this?? We have been in company with multitudes of emigrants the whole day. = The road=20 has been lined to a long extent with their wagons, whose white covers,=20 glittering in the sunlight, resembled, at a distance, ships upon the = ocean. We=20 passed a company from Boston, consisting of seventy persons, one hundred = and=20 forty pack and riding mules, a number of riding horses, and a drove of = cattle=20 for beef. The expedition, as might be expected, and as is to generally = the case,=20 was badly conducted: the mules were overloaded, and the manner of = securing and=20 arranging the packs elicited many a sarcastic criticism from our party, = most of=20 whom were old mountain-men, with whom the making of a pack and the = loading of a=20 mule amounted to a science. Southcentral Nebraska. June 12, 1849 Captain Howard Stansbury Army topographical engineer Welcome to science class if’n you want to figure out how a = mountaineer made=20 his bales. I have seen several references to 100# packs Here is my two cents. A bale is half a load on a pack animal. A 200# = load on=20 a 700-900# animal is real heavy. Not that it was not done but it is sure = pushing=20 it. Most sources say to figure between 10% and 15% body weight if you = plan for a=20 long haul. If an average plew weighs 1 1/2 pounds it would take over 120 hides = to make=20 two bales. Is this correct? Since you have some I assume you would know, but I = thought=20 they would be heavier than that. I assume the hides were folded in some fashion, with the rawhide side = out,=20 then pressed and bound with rawhide. Any ideas????? A pack could be pretty wide (say 36"+/-) and real tall (say 48" well = maybe=20 not that tall with short horses). Run a rope (rawhide very = possibly)=20 around the load vertically with the honda at the top and then throwing = half=20 hitches down horizontally every 6 to 12 inches then running the rope = back under=20 the load and tying off at the top. Pull tight every step of the way. I = can not=20 claim whether this is historical but it sure ties up a load. Perhaps = that is=20 something else to research. Keep us updated on your discoveries. YMOS WY</DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF9574.51209CE0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:47:25 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF9575.F561C1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" saddles used during the = fur trade. Or, if that knowledge is as hard to find as the B of B VIII = leads me to believe, what is being used by horseman who get on the = ground today? Also, what is a good source for period correct things like buckles, = rivets, and buttons?=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF9575.F561C1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" saddles used during = the fur=20 trade. Or, if that knowledge is as hard to find as the B of B VIII leads = me to=20 believe, what is being used by horseman who get on the ground today? Also, what is a good source for period correct things like buckles, = rivets,=20 and buttons? </DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF9575.F561C1C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 03:25:43 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Dogs? you'll want to read this one Hello in the camp;l what ya got cookin? I came across this, thought I might share with ya. In Ferris' Life In The Rocky Mountains. No, it ain't about no cookin dog. It's about a dog tryin to save a trapper and his mule tryin to get him killed. Page 130; "Boys, I am wound!' We saw at once that a well-directed ball had been intercepted by his gun, which thus evidently saved his life. The same bullet, previous to striking his gun, had passed through the neck of his mule, and grazed the pommel of his saddle. He was also struck in the should, by an arrow, but both wounds were slight. After recovering his wonted control over the faculties of speech, he gave us the following particulars of the affair, which was ever afterwards facetiously termed "Milman's Defeat." Whilst jogging along, three or four miles from camp, and calculating the probable sum total of dollars he should accumulate from the sales of furs he purposed taking from his traps that morning, his dog suddenly commenced barking at some invisible object which he supposed to be a squirrel, badger, or some other small animal, that had taken refuge in its burrow. Satisfied of his own sagacity in arriving at this conclusion, he advanced thoughtlessly, until he reached the top of a gently ascending knoll, whence, to his utter astonishment and dismay, he discovered the heads of seven or eight Indians ,( That's when he got shot with the bullet and he got the arrow when this mule would not go.) Just goes to show, always listen to your dog and never trust a mule. Milman was going to check his traps with his dog and in away was hunting with him but it turned out they were the ones being hunted. Was that what you were looking for when first asked your question Matt? When it comes to dogs I don't think much has changed some like'm some don't. I likes mine just fine, with salt and pepper. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:07:12 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3036816432_159263_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Wynn, I have done research on period saddles for about 15 years, and soon plan to write down what I know for the T&L. The best source I know of for period sadles is = Bison Saddlery in Helena , MT 406-449-7231 I am dubious about the "Hybrid Spanish" Saddle, I would get a copy of Man Made Mobile from your local Library and check out the letters writen by Thorten Grimsley. About Buckles, rivets and buttons that is a wide subject, For Iron buckles I blacksmith my own, for brass and peweter I usuly look at sources like Jas Townsend & Son (219-594-5852) or Track of the Wolf (612-424-2500). If I use steel rivets I make them on a forge and for copper I will use a copper ground wire from my local electric supply co. Tell me exactly what you are looking for? YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles? Date: Fri, Mar 24, 2000, 9:47 AM I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" saddles used during the fur trade. Or, if that knowledge is as hard to find as the B of B VIII leads me to believe, what is being used by horseman who get on the ground today? Also, what is a good source for period correct things like buckles, rivets, and buttons? - --MS_Mac_OE_3036816432_159263_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Saddles?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF"> Wynn, I have done research on period saddles for about 15 years, and soon plan to= write down what I know for the T&L. The best source I know of for perio= d sadles is =3D Bison Saddlery in Helena , MT 406-449-7231 I am dubious about the "Hybrid Spanish" Saddle, I would get a cop= y of Man Made Mobile from your local Library and check out the letters write= n by Thorten Grimsley. About Buckles, rivets and buttons that is a wide subject, For Iron buckles I blacksmith my own, for brass and peweter I usuly look at= sources like Jas Townsend & Son (219-594-5852) or Track of the Wolf (612-424-2500).<= BR> If I use steel rivets I make them on a forge and for copper I will use a co= pper ground wire from my local electric supply co. Tell me exactly what you are looking for? YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com><B= R> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles? Date: Fri, Mar 24, 2000, 9:47 AM <BLOCKQUOTE>I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" saddle= s used during the fur trade. Or, if that knowledge is as hard to find as the= B of B VIII leads me to believe, what is being used by horseman who get on = the ground today? Also, what is a good source for period correct things like buckles, rivets,= and buttons? </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> - --MS_Mac_OE_3036816432_159263_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:13:37 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Blue Willow Ware? Hello the camp! Who can tell me what Blue Willow Ware looked like? YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:25:34 -0700 From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver "Packs" - --------------D8CAFA4BC32B19C504B03EF9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net id HAA02900 I had a conversation with Rex Norman about this, a couple years ago when they were making the bales for Ft. Laramie. He figured the streched, dried hides were folded in half. This way, you can get a square bale by layering the long flat edges to the outside. It also puts the hair to hair, which is what my dad and I did when we hauled the hides to the fur buyer. It will also (by folding) give you a good idea the wideth for making bales. Wynn & Gretchen Ormond wrote: > Cliff Tiffie wrote: > > I am interested in putting together two beaver bales or packs. Any > information on how to do this?? > > We have been in company with multitudes of emigrants the whole day. > The road has been lined to a long extent with their wagons, whose > white covers, glittering in the sunlight, resembled, at a distance, > ships upon the ocean. We passed a company from Boston, consisting of > seventy persons, one hundred and forty pack and riding mules, a number > of riding horses, and a drove of cattle for beef. The expedition, as > might be expected, and as is to generally the case, was badly > conducted: the mules were overloaded, and the manner of securing and > arranging the packs elicited many a sarcastic criticism from our > party, most of whom were old mountain-men, with whom the making of a > pack and the loading of a mule amounted to a science. > > Southcentral Nebraska. June 12, 1849 > > Captain Howard Stansbury > > Army topographical engineer > > Welcome to science class if=92n you want to figure out how a mountainee= r > made his bales. > > I have seen several references to 100# packs > > Here is my two cents. A bale is half a load on a pack animal. A 200# > load on a 700-900# animal is real heavy. Not that it was not done but > it is sure pushing it. Most sources say to figure between 10% and 15% > body weight if you plan for a long haul. > > If an average plew weighs 1 1/2 pounds it would take over 120 hides to > make two bales. > > Is this correct? Since you have some I assume you would know, but I > thought they would be heavier than that. > > I assume the hides were folded in some fashion, with the rawhide side > out, then pressed and bound with rawhide. Any ideas????? > > A pack could be pretty wide (say 36"+/-) and real tall (say 48" well > maybe not that tall with short horses). Run a rope (rawhide very > possibly) around the load vertically with the honda at the top and > then throwing half hitches down horizontally every 6 to 12 inches then > running the rope back under the load and tying off at the top. Pull > tight every step of the way. I can not claim whether this is > historical but it sure ties up a load. Perhaps that is something else > to research. > > Keep us updated on your discoveries. > > YMOS > > WY - --------------D8CAFA4BC32B19C504B03EF9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net id HAA02900 <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> I had a conversation with Rex Norman about this, a couple years ago when they were making the bales for Ft. Laramie. He figured the streched, drie= d hides were folded in half. This way, you can get a square bale by layering the long flat edges to the outside. It also puts the hair to hair, which is what my dad and I did when we hauled the hides to the fur buyer. It will also (by folding) give you a good idea the wideth for making bales. Wynn & Gretchen Ormond wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><style></style> Cliff Tiffie wrote: I am interested in putting together two beaver bales or packs. Any inf= ormation on how to do this?? We have been in company with multitudes of emigrants the whole day. The road has been lined to a long extent with their wagons, whose white covers, glittering in the sunlight, resembled, at a distance, ships upon the ocean. We passed a company from Boston, consisting of seventy persons= , one hundred and forty pack and riding mules, a number of riding horses, and a drove of cattle for beef. The expedition, as might be expected, and as is to generally the case, was badly conducted: the mules were overload= ed, and the manner of securing and arranging the packs elicited many a sarcas= tic criticism from our party, most of whom were old mountain-men, with whom the making of a pack and the loading of a mule amounted to a science. Southcentral Nebraska. June 12, 1849 Captain Howard Stansbury Army topographical engineer Welcome to science class if=92n you want to figure out how a mountaine= er made his bales. I have seen several references to 100# packs Here is my two cents. A bale is half a load on a pack animal. A 200# load on a 700-900# animal is real heavy. Not that it was not done but it is sure pushing it. Most sources say to figure between 10% and 15% body weight if you plan for a long haul. If an average plew weighs 1 1/2 pounds it would take over 120 hides to make two bales. Is this correct? Since you have some I assume you would know, but I thought they would be heavier than that. I assume the hides were folded in some fashion, with the rawhide side out, then pressed and bound with rawhide. Any ideas????? A pack could be pretty wide (say 36"+/-) and real tall (say 48" well maybe not that tall with short horses). Run a rope (rawhide very possibly) around the load vertically with the honda at the top and then throwing half hitches down horizontally every 6 to 12 inches then running the rope back under the load and tying off at the top. Pull tight every step of the way. I can not claim whether this is historical but it sure ties up a load. Perhaps that is something else to research. Keep us updated on your discoveries. YMOS WY</blockquote> </body> </html> - --------------D8CAFA4BC32B19C504B03EF9-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:04:38 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? Hello in the camp Wynn I ride one of Bob Schmidt saddles of Historical Enterprises. He makes a good saddle for less money then you can buy any where. He is also an AMM member his address is 1100 N.E. Hamilton Hgts. Road Corvallis, Mt 59828 phone number 406-9614243. see ya on the trail Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:55:48 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF9651.0FB68340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you want to know what the Spanish (Mexican) saddles of the period = looked like - or want a new one today, talk to Bob Schmidt up in = Hamilton, MT. Or. . . get in touch with Casa Gardea saddle company in = Chihuahua MX. They made them then and they make them now - at reasonable = prices. -----Original Message----- From: Ole B. Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 7:09 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? =20 =20 Wynn, I have done research on period saddles for about 15 years, and soon = plan to write down what I know for the T&L. The best source I know of = for period sadles is =3D Bison Saddlery in Helena , MT 406-449-7231 I am dubious about the "Hybrid Spanish" Saddle, I would get a copy = of Man Made Mobile from your local Library and check out the letters = writen by Thorten Grimsley. About Buckles, rivets and buttons that is a wide subject,=20 For Iron buckles I blacksmith my own, for brass and peweter I usuly = look at sources like=20 Jas Townsend & Son (219-594-5852) or Track of the Wolf = (612-424-2500). If I use steel rivets I make them on a forge and for copper I will = use a copper ground wire from my local electric supply co. Tell me exactly what you are looking for? YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles? Date: Fri, Mar 24, 2000, 9:47 AM =20 =20 =20 I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" saddles used = during the fur trade. Or, if that knowledge is as hard to find as the B = of B VIII leads me to believe, what is being used by horseman who get on = the ground today?=20 =20 Also, what is a good source for period correct things like = buckles, rivets, and buttons?=20 =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF9651.0FB68340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type><TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Saddles?</TITLE> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>If you want to know what the Spanish = (Mexican)=20 saddles of the period looked like - or want a new one today, talk to Bob = Schmidt=20 up in Hamilton, MT. Or. . . get in touch with Casa Gardea saddle company = in=20 Chihuahua MX. They made them then and they make them now - at reasonable = prices.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV>-----Original = Message----- From:=20 Ole B. Jensen <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:olebjensen@earthlink.net">olebjensen@earthlink.net</A>>= To:=20 <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>> Date:=20 Saturday, March 25, 2000 7:09 AM Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 Saddles? </DIV>Wynn, I have done research on period = saddles=20 for about 15 years, and soon plan to write down what I know for the = T&L.=20 The best source I know of for period sadles is =3D Bison Saddlery in = Helena ,=20 MT 406-449-7231 I am dubious about the "Hybrid = Spanish"=20 Saddle, I would get a copy of Man Made Mobile from your local = Library and=20 check out the letters writen by Thorten Grimsley. About Buckles, = rivets=20 and buttons that is a wide subject, For Iron buckles I = blacksmith my=20 own, for brass and peweter I usuly look at sources like Jas = Townsend=20 & Son (219-594-5852) or Track of the Wolf (612-424-2500). If = I use=20 steel rivets I make them on a forge and for copper I will use a = copper=20 ground wire from my local electric supply co. Tell me exactly = what you=20 are looking for? YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- From: = "Wynn=20 & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> To:=20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List:=20 Saddles? Date: Fri, Mar 24, 2000, 9:47 AM <BLOCKQUOTE>I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" = saddles used during the fur trade. Or, if that knowledge is as = hard to=20 find as the B of B VIII leads me to believe, what is being used = by=20 horseman who get on the ground today? Also, what is a = good=20 source for period correct things like buckles, rivets, and = buttons?=20 </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF9651.0FB68340-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:02:55 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? I'll second that. I have one of Bob's saddles, an 1824 replica. Fits me and the horse well. Took a tracing of the horse's back , both from the side and the butt end. Bob had the tree made to fit. I sure like riding in it. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: <GazeingCyot@cs.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 10:04 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? > Hello in the camp > Wynn I ride one of Bob Schmidt saddles of Historical Enterprises. He makes a > good saddle for less money then you can buy any where. He is also an AMM > member his address is 1100 N.E. Hamilton Hgts. Road Corvallis, Mt 59828 > phone number 406-9614243. > see ya on the trail > Crazy Cyot > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:54:25 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn Kirby <lynnkirby@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles? I'm also interested in any information you may have dealing with period saddles. I'm currently attempting to build one after having located a spanish-style tree. I'v read "Man Made Mobile" and "Saddles"and am still looking for a little more detail. Mostly concerning the rigging and weather or not any type of ground seat was used. Any infirmation would be greatly appreciated . Thank You Lynn Stuck in Arizona - --- "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> wrote: > Wynn, > I have done research on period saddles for about 15 > years, and soon plan to > write down what I know for the T&L. The best source > I know of for period > sadles is = Bison Saddlery in Helena , MT > 406-449-7231 > I am dubious about the "Hybrid Spanish" Saddle, I > would get a copy of Man > Made Mobile from your local Library and check out > the letters writen by > Thorten Grimsley. > About Buckles, rivets and buttons that is a wide > subject, > For Iron buckles I blacksmith my own, for brass and > peweter I usuly look at > sources like > Jas Townsend & Son (219-594-5852) or Track of the > Wolf (612-424-2500). > If I use steel rivets I make them on a forge and for > copper I will use a > copper ground wire from my local electric supply co. > Tell me exactly what you are looking for? > YMOS > Ole # 718 > ---------- > From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" > <leona3@favorites.com> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles? > Date: Fri, Mar 24, 2000, 9:47 AM > > > I would like to learn more about the "Spanish" > saddles used during the fur > trade. Or, if that knowledge is as hard to find as > the B of B VIII leads me > to believe, what is being used by horseman who get > on the ground today? > > Also, what is a good source for period correct > things like buckles, rivets, > and buttons? > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #507 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.