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hist_text-digest       Sunday, January 24 1999       Volume 01 : Number 225




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 23 Jan 99 12:04:26 -0700
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Yucca stalk as tinder

Two friends and I lived off the land for a weekend, took no food with us.
 Couldn't find any game so ate for 3 days Indian breadroot and Yukka
seeds.  Right off the pod, they burned our throats.  Roast them in a skillet
and they are good.  The root also suds up for soap, hence their name of
Soapweed.

DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants

Pat Quilter wrote:
>Actually, Yucca has many uses:
>   For those unfamiliar with this sentry of the Southwest, the yucca
family
>of plants grows as a central cluster of leaves in the form of
SHARP-tipped
>spears, from which a central stalk emerges and grows to some feet or
yards,
>blooms, goes to seed, then dies. By the following year the whole plant
is
>dry, and eventually the leaves rot away and the stalk falls over.
>   The well-dried spears (leaves) surrounding an expired plant have
great
>tinder potential, especially the frayed fibrous bases which are as good
as
>any tow.
>The well-dried central stalk is the material from which Lahti and Todd
made
>good char -- it's quite like balsa wood, except a little hard on the
outside
>like a shell, and somewhat softer and more pithy inside. It's also a
good
>material for anything light and stiff -- I made a very serviceable and
>comfortable pack frame by taking one 3" dia by 6 foot stalk, splitting
it
>down the middle, chopping the two sections into four pieces, and lashing
>them into a rectangle with ends protruding, using rawhide, and cutting
>notches somewhat to locate the corners. Wear it with the round sides
towards
>the back, and lash a couple more sticks of any wood horizontally across
the
>middle for more tie points.
>   A growing plant is a great source of fiber for cordage. Sever a few
>leaves at their base, they're usually 18-24" long. Trim off the sharp
edges,
>whose fibers peter out, and strip the green "binder" away from the
central
>fibers with the thumbnail or a dull edge. You'll get plenty of full
length
>fibers which can be twisted into cordage, and the Indians were supposed
to
>have sewn directly with the sharp tip.
>   A tender green stalk is somewhat edible, although the sap is
astringent,
>and the flowers are also supposed to have some food value.
>Pat Quilter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carpenters [mailto:[e-mail]]
>Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 5:02 PM
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yucca stalk as tinder
>
>
>
>
>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> Greetings All:
>>
>>
>>      Capt Lahti, a familiar name to this group, stated that he'd tried
>Yucca
>> with success.
>>
>Todd:
>
>Was this the leaves/needles of the yucca or the bark/stalk?  I live in
>the So California Mountains and close to the high desert where yucca
>grows in abundance.  I'll do some experimenting also.
>
>Carp
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:47:38 -0600
From: John Dearing <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: TP

> >So I go to this page, think to myself..."this is disgusting" and read a little
> >more.  Well, I haven't laughed so hard ALL YEAR!
> >Thanks J. D. I needed that!
>
> Medicine Bear

Medicine Bear,
Thanks, but I can't take the credit for writing that  humorous bit of information, only finding
it.
The best part is, most of us can relate to the incidents related on that page. <LOL>
J.D.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:08:54 -0600
From: John Dearing <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: wet weather

> >Using blanket material, make two soles for each foot, tracing the pattern while
> >wearing what ever socks you will wear. Stitch across the soles at ball of foot and
> >just ahead of heal to keep the two pieces from moving.

> >Make a pattern for the soles while wearing your socks and blanket booties. Make it
> >a bit big, leaving at least a quarter inch of seam allowance. Put the sole pieces together
> flesh side >toflesh side and then punch or bore stitch holes all the way around about
> 3/16"thsor so apart but >no more than 1/4" and about a 1/4" in from the edge.  Turn the sole
> pieces over and carefully cut >a slit into the bottom piece between holes for the thread to
> lay in so it is not quickly worn >through.

I use the same basic idea in making my shoe packs, but I make a pattern by putting
on an old sock over what ever socks I plan to wear, and using duct tape (period, it ain't ;-))
tape from the heel to toe to the height on your leg you want the mocs to come, then wrap
another layer of tape around your foot, and draw in the seam lines. Remove the sock and
cut along the seam lines, and trace the pattern onto thick paper being sure to leave a 3/8
of an inch seam allowance. With a few adjustments, this pattern will insure that you don't
waste good leather making a pair of ill fitting mocs.

For the shoe pack itself, I sew one sole to the upper with linen thread, and stitch an
oil cloth moisture barrier and the bottom sole onto the top sole and upper with leather
thongs.  This makes replacing a worn bottom sole, or damaged moisture barrier easier
than taking the whole moc apart.

For the liner, I make a center seam moc, several inches taller than the shoe pack, out
of fleece. Real fleece from a sheep. This works real well in the most severe MO weather
that the trek gods have thrown at us.

I also tie my mocs on with a 3/8 inch, or so wide leather thongs long enough to wrap
around the bottom of the mocs, over the instep and around the back of the ankle
several times. Helps a good deal with traction in wet, muddy, or snowy conditions.

Your Humble Servant
J.D.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:54:04 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: wet weather

John Dearing wrote:

>  This works real well in the most severe MO weather
> that the trek gods have thrown at us.
>
> I also tie my mocs on with a 3/8 inch, or so wide leather thongs long enough to wrap
> around the bottom of the mocs, over the instep and around the back of the ankle
> several times. Helps a good deal with traction in wet, muddy, or snowy conditions.

John,

I recall seeing your method posted some weeks ago. Very innovative construction method and one I
will have to try. One thing I left out of my original post on this was a similar way of making the
shoe pack fit well and give extra traction. I take a two inch wide strap of sole leather and fit
it under the arch so that it will come up a couple inches on both sides of the foot with the moc
on. With a hole at each end, I pass a thong through both holes, across the arch and use the extra
to wrap around the ankle before tying. This is similar to your method but I find it doesn't wear
out as fast as thongs do passing under the moc. Thanks for the additional ideas. I remain......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:35:33 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yucca stalk as tinder

Frank wrote:

> Okay, now that the market has been established and demand already
> growing...anyone want to become a "Yucca Sutler"?  Sounds like the
> worlds best char!
>
> Medicine Bear

Medicine Bear,

I have about a dozen stalks out in the yard that go about 3' long by
thumb size at the base. Contact me of list if your interested. I
remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:19:56 -0800
From: Gary Bell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wet weather

A note from the Ancient Boy Scout.....
We used to "trench our tents", meaning that we carefully sited these canv=
as and ironwood monstrsities (drainage, wind direction and ant hills bein=
g some of the considerations), and then carefully dug trenches to collect=
 and drain away the inevitable downpour......

Lanney Ratcliff wrote:

> Allen,
> Several Januarys ago at a winter camp on the south high bank of the Red=
 River about 40 miles east of Wichita Falls, Texas mother nature took sev=
eral of us to school.   The first day or so was humid and quite warm and =
no great care was taken by some to handle cold or wet weather.  High wind=
s, one day from the south and the next day from the north, buffetted the =
camp and then a brief, moderate shower sent folks scurrying to batten dow=
n the hatches a little.  James Craker and Ron Harris decided to pitch the=
ir two 10 X 10 tarps together, with James's brand new, "waterproof as the=
 hood of a '57 Buick", tarp stretched over a ridge pole forming a snug li=
ttle cubby.  Later when the heavy rains came they were shocked to discove=
r that the new tarp barely slowed down the water.  Everything and everybo=
dy under the leaking tarp was soon wet and fairly miserable and dreading =
the cold wind that was blowing the rain away from camp...temporarily, it =
turned out.  During the brief lull between storms,
> Harris abandoned his close friend, James, to his fate and begged entran=
ce to my little, bitty, mostly dry, pryamid tent, claiming illness.  Late=
r he did indeed prove to be ill (which is a story best told around a fire=
)  but his most immediate problem was that he was very, very cold, with h=
ypothermia a real possibility.  We shed what inhibitions we each had (pre=
cious few, to be sure) and bunked down together under my dry blankets, us=
ing my abundant body heat in an attempt to stop his chills while we endur=
ed a loud thunderstorm, complete with lightening and hail.   He pretty mu=
ch stayed there for a day and a half, much of the time shivering like he =
was passing a peach pit, but as soon as I evicted him he felt well enough=
 to chase a skunk.  Later Harris recalled one of his favorite books and p=
araphrased it,  saying that the camp on the Red " was the best of times, =
it was the worst of times, it was the winter of our discount tent" .
> We often tell this story (with certain omitted details included) and we=
 make lots of people laugh.  But the results easily could have been diffe=
rent with serious consequences.  You can bet that all of us now take grea=
t pains to know how ALL our gear works.  Don't assume anything.
> My personal method is to prepare for the worst, choosing a campsite car=
efully, taking note of drainage potential.  If I can find a little hump o=
r other high point I camp there and with any luck I can be assured that w=
ater will run away from my camp. If I have properly aligned the opening o=
f my fly away from the most likely wind direction in the event of a storm=
 I have one less problem to contend with.  I like to stash a little dry k=
indling and fire wood somewhere under my fly in case of a soaking rain.  =
And for those real wet camps I always bring some food that keeps well and=
 needs no cooking....just in case.  I know these "tips" are old hat to mo=
st of the people on the list, but I have seen some pretty skilled men set=
 their camps in an obvious wash and spend most of their time trying to ke=
ep themselves dry when the rain came.  I guess that I am saying that it i=
s wise to scout carefully for a really good campsite, studying the terrai=
n closely and running worst case senarios through
> you head as you smoke a pipe or a Marsh Wheeling stogie.  Take you time=
 everytime.
>
> Lanney Ratclif
> Tejas Party
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 4:38 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Wet weather
>
> >Hello the list,
> >
> >Seveal of us are getting ready for a winter camp on the Lewis Fork of =
the
> >Snake River, right near where Osborne Russell described a hot spring.
> >Anyway, the forecast is for wet weather, not winter weather.  In getti=
ng
> >ready for this I thought it would be interesting to hear how different=
 folks
> >deal with wet, sloppy weather.
> >
> >Looking forward to your answers,
> >
> >Allen Hall in Fort Hall country
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:34:38 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: John Colter question

Todd, and others,

The general consensus is that it's Blackfeet oral tradition, nothing more,
nothing less.  However, oral tradition does not become documented history
without corroborating evidence of some type.  I don't know whether Colter
told the truth, or just a half truth.  Maybe he did escape, or maybe they
let him think he was getting away, just to have a bit of psychological fun
at his expense (it wouldn't be the first or last time).  Who knows?  What
is clear is that similar encounters with Eastern tribes did occur, and the
historical record is full of documented cases of narrow escapes like
Colter's.  So, based on that, it's possible that Colter was telling the
truth for the most part, but we really have no way of knowing.  He was an
uncommon character, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt.  I
believe "something" happened along the lines of what he said, but we can't
be sure whether he or his scribe Thomas James added some embellishment.
What's interesting is that his descriptions of Yellowstone were right on
the money, and he continued to tell people about it despite their
disbelief.    Yellowstone was beyond most folks' comprehension, but Indian
encounters and narrow escapes were not.  Therefore, people were more
willing to believe his escape story, as if narrow escapes were common
enough for them to say "why not?"

I'm willing to say, without evidence to the contrary, that Colter was
captured and he escaped.  Whether it happened exactly the way he said,
that's up to someone else to decide, as long as they have hard evidence to
back it up.

Cheers,
HBC


>
>Hey Henry:
>
>Did you ever get any definitive answer from your Blackfoot friends about thier
>version of the John Colter run story? Seems like they had a different version
>and the question was, do they have any substantive evidence that it didn't
>happen exactly as we have heard. I can understand some embarrasment on thier
>part, and why they would therefore tell a different story. But unless there is
>some kind of evidence or reason to believe otherwise, then I won't be like the
>many in Colter's own day who wouldn't believe what he had to say.
>
>Happy Trails
>Todd Glover



*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******   Living History . . . Because it's there!   ******

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:04:43 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: John Colter question

Henry,

Sounds like good reasoning to me. As we all know, the truth is often stranger
than fiction.

Regards,

Todd Glover

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:13:16 -0800 (PST)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yucca stalk as tinder

Frank,

The stuff is great.  I mentioned a long time ago that I use it, but here in
California (the land of protecting rocks as endangered species) I believe
the Yucca is a protected plant.  As such, you are not supposed to take it
out of its natural habitat or especially sell it.  I don't know if that is
true anywhere else?

Happy Yucca hunting.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
________________________________________________________________________________
At 06:48 PM 1/22/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Okay, now that the market has been established and demand already
>growing...anyone want to become a "Yucca Sutler"?  Sounds like the
>worlds best char!
>
>Medicine Bear
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:28:59 -0800 (PST)
From: zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Flint and Steel Fire

I'm glad to hear that some of you guys are having such good luck with your
first try at lighting a fire with flint & steel.  I unfortunately wasn't
quite as successful.  This happened probably about 10 or 11 years ago, when
I decided to get serious about all this stuff.  I'd been going to Rendezvous
for about 3 or 4 years and had accumulated all the best plunder.  Thought it
was time I should buy a flint & steel set and learn how to do it right.  Got
some tow and made char and was ready to try it out.  Didn't want to do it in
front of any of my mountain men friends, though, so I waited until I was
camping with only my wife and children.  We were going to start a fire and I
thought it was time to impress them with my knowledge, so I announced I was
going to start the fire with flint & steel.  After calming them down from
laughing, I got everything ready and started the feat.  Well I kept getting
lots of sparks on the char (which I laid on the ground) but it didn't seem
to catch.  I tried for 5, 10 and 15 minutes.  Finally after that time I got
a spark to catch on the char.  I put it in the tow and started to blow on
it.  Sure enough, I got lots of smoke, but never got the stuff to ignite.  I
tried again for another 10 minutes, but by that time my wife was really
disgusted and tired of my fooling around.  She took out her cigarette
lighter and started the fire in about 3 seconds.

Well after that I was determined to really learn how to do it right and
before I tried it again, I asked someone at Rendezvous to help me.  He did
and haven't had a problem since.  I guess a little humility can go a long way.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:15:56 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: RE: Tinder

I  was just reading a book where a person used a small piece
of " unspun flax " set in the pan of his flintlock with some priming
powder and the touch hole plugged to start his fire.
Got me to wondering if any of you fellas' have used your rifles
to start a fire or have heard of "flax" being used as tinder.

From the northwoods,

Tony Clark

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:13:39 -0700
From: "Eldon L Ayers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: RE: Tinder

Hi Tony,

I have tried unspun flax a number of times when starting fires.  It is
probably one of the poorest bird's nest materials I have used.  With
perseverance I finally got a flame, but I wouldn't want to use it when
everything depended on a fire pronto.  I watched a fella start a fire with
his pistol in the manner you described, but it seemed to me a lot of trouble
compared to using a flint and steel.

2Badger

Wisdom  does not come from study.
Knowledge does.
Wisdom comes from showing up for life.


- -----Original Message-----
From:    [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of northwoods
Sent:    Sunday, January 24, 1999 6:16 AM
To:    [e-mail]
Subject:    MtMan-List: RE: Tinder

I  was just reading a book where a person used a small piece
of " unspun flax " set in the pan of his flintlock with some priming
powder and the touch hole plugged to start his fire.
Got me to wondering if any of you fellas' have used your rifles
to start a fire or have heard of "flax" being used as tinder.

>From the northwoods,

Tony Clark

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:28:08 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (BRUCE S. DE LIS)
Subject: MtMan-List: Flax

The subject of Flax came up this morning.  In a book I have The Kentucky
Rifle, by  John G.W. Dillin on Page 102, Plate  67

Unspun Flax is mentioned:  "Unspun flax, used for swabbing bore"

Can't see what it would not burn with a spark, from a Flintlock Pan.

Believe I saw some on do just that in a Hollywood movie.

B

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:45:02 -0800
From: "John W. Stephens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax

Haw Haw Ha. Tha's funny, Bruce. Caught ya.

"BRUCE S. DE LIS" wrote:
>
> Believe I saw some on do just that in a Hollywood movie.
>
> B

- --
JW "LRay" Stephens
...
ICQ# 20564775   "Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:39:46 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Bob Spencer)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Tinder

>I  was just reading a book where a person used a small piece
>of " unspun flax " set in the pan of his flintlock with some priming
>powder and the touch hole plugged to start his fire.
>Got me to wondering if any of you fellas' have used your rifles
>to start a fire or have heard of "flax" being used as tinder.

Tony, I've use my flintlock to start a fire many times. It's simple and
very reliable.

I've never plugged the touch-hole while doing this, and have done it with a
loaded gun on several occasions without ever having the gun fire. I simply
fold a piece of good charcloth and put it into the pan, making certain it
is covering the touch-hole, close the frizzen and fire the gun. The char
catches easily, and can then be removed and put into the tinder. Works like
a charm.

I've never used flax for starting a fire, don't find that it works well.
Char can be made of linen cloth, which is flax, of course, but you have to
be careful not to over cook it, it will lose too much substance easily.

Another way to use your flintlock for fire starting is to put 10 grains or
so of powder down the empty barrel, then ram down a good sized piece of
char cloth. Fire the gun straight up, and a piece of glowing char will come
floating down. Works, but I see no reason to do it, since putting the char
into the pan works so well.

Bob

Bob Spencer <[e-mail]>
non illegitimi carborundum est

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:19:12 +0000
From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax

I use flax, in conjunction with other materials.  I'll gather whatever is
at hand, then mix it with flax.  I carry a small bag with flax, well
dried (non treated) rope, fatwood, a candle stub, etc... as my wet
weather fire kit.  I  test old rope to make sure it's not been treated
with a fire retardant, if it's good, I hang pieces on the back fence for
a season so it will start to break down.  I then shred it for use in
birds nests.  If you use a loaded gun to start a fire, you may end up on
a Darwin list.... be careful!!! Also, if using powder to start fire- keep
horn, etc... well away from fire.  We named a guy "second chance"  after
he was shaking the last granules of powder from an 'empty horn' onto a
smoldering bird's nest- It sounded like a canon shot!  Shards of horn
went far away- lucky none found him, his hand hurt though!   Hardtack

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:56:14 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pre-1840 toilet tissue (Mullein)

Sega,
   I've used mullen leaves as TP for many trecks in East Texas.  I'm not sure if
growing temps would make the hair more spiny.  Have also used the leaves (green and
crushed)with a little oil or grease as a poultice for hemorohids.
Chases Hawks
Chris Sega wrote:

> JW Stephens wrote:
>
> > In the northwest especially, the plant "Mullein" makes excellent "bum
> > fodder" snip
>
> Mullein can be found almost anywhere in the US and is especially common in the
> west.  As For TP I have had the odious task of chopping out an acre of mullein in
> an area which was to be reclaimed.  The stuff caused burning and irritation from
> the fine pubescence (hair) which covers the plant.  I itched and burned for quite
> some time. These plants were green. I have heard of Mullein being used as TP
> several times.  Although I have not done so, I would imagine that the dry leaves
> should be used and not green plants.  Anyone who has actually done so, Please
> tell us if you used green or dry Mullein.  On another note Mullein can be
> pulverised and used to stun fish in dammed up streams and the fibrous stalks can
> be used to make cordage, and I have been told, fire drills.
>
> Your most onry' and disobedient hivernant
> Sega

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:03:42 -0800
From: Tom Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Tinder

Eldon L Ayers wrote:

> "I have tried unspun flax a number of times when starting fires.  It is
> probably one of the poorest bird's nest materials I have used"

It may already be common knowledge, but here in the SE, sun-dried spanish moss
is abundant, keeps very well, and makes excellent bird's nest.  Also abundant
(like yucca in the high desert), is palmetto which I will experiment with to
learn whether it will serve for char.  More to follow.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:44:50 -0800
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax

BRUCE S. DE LIS wrote:

> Unspun Flax is mentioned:  "Unspun flax, used for swabbing bore"
>
> Can't see what it would not burn with a spark, from a Flintlock Pan.
>
> Bruce,

Flax or tow is a great way to wipe out the bore. It is a bit of a myth
though, that you can get it to ignite by throwing a spark into it in your
pan or otherwise without making it into char first. If you work at it long
enough, it might work but it would be a luck thing at best. I've tried to
use it as tinder and have never had that much success. As char, linen or
flax cloth will work ok if you don't let it get too fragile.

There are a number of things that make good char, including punky wood like
rotten birch and cottonwood. Yucca stalks and other pithy woody plants make
usable char as do some types of bracken fungus. Experiment with what you
find in your area and when you go to other locals.

I like burlap sacks or gunny sacks for tinder and cedar bark, inner
cottonwood bark and inner bark of sage along with dry grass's work too to
take the heat from your char and turn it into flame. Experiment. Birch bark
from most types makes a great flame catcher if pitch pine or fat wood is not
available and will burn even when damp. Pitch nodules off bruised trees will
help keep a flame going.

As to starting your char in a flint lock with out first plugging the touch
hole, I think Gen. Bob lives a charmed life and would like to touch him some
time to see if his good luck would rub off on me. I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:54:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax

In a message dated 1/24/99 8:47:56 PM Central Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

> As to starting your char in a flint lock with out first plugging the touch
>  hole, I think Gen. Bob lives a charmed life and would like to touch him
some
>  time to see if his good luck would rub off on me.

Something would rub off on you alright, but it wouldn't be luck.  However, you
are so full of the substance already, you probably wouldn't notice. <G>

Je remaine
LeVieuxReynard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:56:07 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: John Colter question

On the same line of thinking about escapes, Charlie Hanson and several of us
were at Chradon Fur Trade Days and someone mentioned different escapes by
adventures, trappers, travelers and how they would return an be caught again
and again escape.

Charlie had a funny remark, "they're the first UPS riders, they bring
supplies, get caught and escape, a little while later they do it again, what
a deal for the locals, free goods and free delivery".

Brother what a way to make a living !


- -----Original Message-----
From: Henry B. Crawford <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 6:38 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: John Colter question


>Todd, and others,
>
>The general consensus is that it's Blackfeet oral tradition, nothing more,
>nothing less.  However, oral tradition does not become documented history
>without corroborating evidence of some type.  I don't know whether Colter
>told the truth, or just a half truth.  Maybe he did escape, or maybe they
>let him think he was getting away, just to have a bit of psychological fun
>at his expense (it wouldn't be the first or last time).  Who knows?  What
>is clear is that similar encounters with Eastern tribes did occur, and the
>historical record is full of documented cases of narrow escapes like
>Colter's.  So, based on that, it's possible that Colter was telling the
>truth for the most part, but we really have no way of knowing.  He was an
>uncommon character, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt.  I
>believe "something" happened along the lines of what he said, but we can't
>be sure whether he or his scribe Thomas James added some embellishment.
>What's interesting is that his descriptions of Yellowstone were right on
>the money, and he continued to tell people about it despite their
>disbelief.    Yellowstone was beyond most folks' comprehension, but Indian
>encounters and narrow escapes were not.  Therefore, people were more
>willing to believe his escape story, as if narrow escapes were common
>enough for them to say "why not?"
>
>I'm willing to say, without evidence to the contrary, that Colter was
>captured and he escaped.  Whether it happened exactly the way he said,
>that's up to someone else to decide, as long as they have hard evidence to
>back it up.
>
>Cheers,
>HBC
>
>
>>
>>Hey Henry:
>>
>>Did you ever get any definitive answer from your Blackfoot friends about
thier
>>version of the John Colter run story? Seems like they had a different
version
>>and the question was, do they have any substantive evidence that it didn't
>>happen exactly as we have heard. I can understand some embarrasment on
thier
>>part, and why they would therefore tell a different story. But unless
there is
>>some kind of evidence or reason to believe otherwise, then I won't be like
the
>>many in Colter's own day who wouldn't believe what he had to say.
>>
>>Happy Trails
>>Todd Glover
>
>
>
>*****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
>[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
>806/742-2442           Box 43191
>FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>******   Living History . . . Because it's there!   ******
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:03:41 -0700
From: "Barry Conner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax

Capt. Lahti' I have seen what these gentlemen are referring to about
starting the flax or tow in a flintlock pan, after a demo I wondered over
and picked up the "regular tow" as what this person called it. Low and
behold it had a faint smell of a cleaner on it, turned out he was using
"jute" for this demo and for his super fast flint & steel demo. Wonder what
plant he got refined jute off of ?

Buck

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, January 24, 1999 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax


>
>
>BRUCE S. DE LIS wrote:
>
>> Unspun Flax is mentioned:  "Unspun flax, used for swabbing bore"
>>
>> Can't see what it would not burn with a spark, from a Flintlock Pan.
>>
>> Bruce,
>
>Flax or tow is a great way to wipe out the bore. It is a bit of a myth
>though, that you can get it to ignite by throwing a spark into it in your
>pan or otherwise without making it into char first. If you work at it long
>enough, it might work but it would be a luck thing at best. I've tried to
>use it as tinder and have never had that much success. As char, linen or
>flax cloth will work ok if you don't let it get too fragile.
>
>There are a number of things that make good char, including punky wood like
>rotten birch and cottonwood. Yucca stalks and other pithy woody plants make
>usable char as do some types of bracken fungus. Experiment with what you
>find in your area and when you go to other locals.
>
>I like burlap sacks or gunny sacks for tinder and cedar bark, inner
>cottonwood bark and inner bark of sage along with dry grass's work too to
>take the heat from your char and turn it into flame. Experiment. Birch bark
>from most types makes a great flame catcher if pitch pine or fat wood is
not
>available and will burn even when damp. Pitch nodules off bruised trees
will
>help keep a flame going.
>
>As to starting your char in a flint lock with out first plugging the touch
>hole, I think Gen. Bob lives a charmed life and would like to touch him
some
>time to see if his good luck would rub off on me. I remain....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:25:44 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Bob Spencer)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flax

>Something would rub off on you alright, but it wouldn't be luck.  However, you
>are so full of the substance already, you probably wouldn't notice. <G>
>
>Je remaine
>LeVieuxReynard

One thing I've learned on these lists, never argue with an expert in the
field. I defer to your experience, LePieuReynard. <G>

Bob

Bob Spencer <[e-mail]>
non illegitimi carborundum est

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #225
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