<DIV>Mike I was hoping you would respond. You have a lot of exposure to this=
subject and I want your opinion. The movie was a disappointment to say the=20=
least too much Hollywood. The DVD had some extras that were well worth the t=
ime.</DIV>
<DIV>What got me interested is his latest book Case Files of a Tracker.</DIV=
>
<DIV>In it is a 1999 case he calls Cougar Canyon. In reading it. I was=20=
obvious it was the true story of a boy lost four years ago west of Fort Coll=
ins, Colo. were I live. Recently the boy remains were found and what was fou=
nd matched the prediction of one of Tom's trackers to a tee. High in the roc=
ks near the trail but out of view were found the 3 year old tennis shoes, pa=
rt of his skull, a tooth and some of his cloths. More cloths were found than=
he predicted. Tom and his tracker come on the scene 9 days after the boy wa=
s lost and search had been suspended. They found his tracks after that time=20=
lapse and all the search traffic. Told where a searcher with dog had followe=
d the trail and the searcher did not notice the dog picking up the sent. Whe=
re the boy had crossed the river and thrown rocks into it and where the Moun=
tain Lion had started stalking while the searches were on the other side of=20=
the river. The also determined he could not hear there calls because of the=20=
river noise. Much of this has be supported by the local paper.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A lot of his experiences do seam for fetched and not understandable by=20=
the average man. But if I would think the people that he came in contact wit=
h during his development would come forward i.e. teachers, scout master and=20=
some of the people he has found a live.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am considering taking his basic course next year to check it out=
. So if anyone has personal experience with his school let me know.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Roadkill</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:13:08 +0000
From: "Michael Powell" <amm1769@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tom Brown Jr.
<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Mark,</P>
<P>There is a man in your area, Grand Junction, who teaches survival skills and tracking and you would be better off to take one of his courses. He has property not far from the AMM property where he teaches, though he lives in Grand Junction. His name is Mel DeWeese and he goes by "Mountain Mel". He is a good personal friend of mine and he has travelled the world over teaching survival skills and will get you out in the field. Mention my name and tell him that I referred you. Contact him at, 970-242-8507 or e-mail at <A href="mailto:mtnmel@youwillsurvive.com">mtnmel@youwillsurvive.com</A> </P>
<P>Believe me, this guy has forgotten more than I will ever know about survival and is a wealth of knowledge. Plus as an added bonus has some of the greatest stories you have ever heard and is a kick in the pants with his wit and sense of humor. Being an ol' military man he loves to kick back a few beers and swap lies.</P>
<P>I missed a chance to go with him last year to the Amazon. (no fundage) He always invites me to go and tells me waht went on with the natives. An Awesome Guy!</P>
<P>Later,</P>
<P>Mike Powell<BR></P>
<DIV>AMM #1769 </DIV>POISON RIVER PARTY
<DIV></DIV>"Ride, Ride, Ride"
<DIV></DIV>"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >From: MarkLoader@aol.com >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tom Brown Jr. >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:41:27 EST > >Mike I was hoping you would respond. You have a lot of exposure to this >subject and I want your opinion. The movie was a disappointment to say the least >too much Hollywood. The DVD had some extras that were well worth the time. >What got me interested is his latest book Case Files of a Tracker. >In it is a 1999 case he calls Cougar Canyon. In reading it. I was obvious it >was the true story of a boy lost four years ago west of Fort Collins, Colo. >were I live. Recently the boy remains were found and what was found matched the >prediction of one of Tom's trackers to a tee. High in the rocks near the trail >but out of view were found the 3 year old tennis shoes, part of his skull, a >tooth and some of his cloths. More cloths were found than he predicted. Tom >and his tracker come on the scene 9 days after the boy was lost and search had >been suspended. They found his tracks after that time lapse and all the search >traffic. Told where a searcher with dog had followed the trail and the >searcher did not notice the dog picking up the sent. Where the boy had crossed the >river and thrown rocks into it and where the Mountain Lion had started stalking >while the searches were on the other side of the river. The also determined he >could not hear there calls because of the river noise. Much of this has be >supported by the local paper. > >A lot of his experiences do seam for fetched and not understandable by the >average man. But if I would think the people that he came in contact with during >his development would come forward i.e. teachers, scout master and some of >the people he has found a live. > >I am considering taking his basic course next year to check it out. So if >anyone has personal experience with his school let me know. >Thanks Roadkill </div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2743??PS=">Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms û all in one place at MSN Money!</a> </html>
- ----------------------
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:33:07 +0000
From: "Michael Powell" <amm1769@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Tom Brown Jr.
<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Thank you John,</P>
<P>I forgot to include that my good friend, Mtn. Mel, once had bumper stickers made that said, <STRONG>"Real survival instruction saves lives, No mystical B.S., Please"! </STRONG>This was in response to all the Tom Brown hype.</P>
<P>Later,</P>
<P>Mike<BR></P>
<DIV>AMM #1769 </DIV>POISON RIVER PARTY
<DIV></DIV>"Ride, Ride, Ride"
<DIV></DIV>"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >From: John Dearing <jdearing@brick.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Tom Brown Jr. >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:57:48 -0600 > >Right on. >I took a coupla classes back in the early 80's and would have been >better off reading some good books and practicing what I read. > >I was young and dumb in those days, and had more money than sense. > > Mike described the curriculum correctly. Lots of lecture with >little hands on, and some of those exercises aren't all that >educational. Not to mention all the BS he calls Native American >philosophy. >It's new age religion BS pure and simple. > >Better to save your money and simply hang out with folks who know >what they are doing. > >I saw the prototype for the "tracker knife" at one of the classes, >and had the same thoughts about the practicality of the knife. IMHO, >Brown is a better marketer than he is a survival instructor. > >J.D. > >>Don't waste your time. In survival skill circles the overall >>feeling is that while it all sounds good in theory, the courses are >>taught in a lecture sort of setting and very little hands on or >>actually practical application in a field setting. Tom Brown does >>have the fact that he is a good marketeer and has a following that >>spreads his class sign-ups. Most hard core survivalist, I know, >>who have been in the field for 30 years don't really think to much >>of Tom Brown. But you can't down a guy who knows how to make a >>living doing what he likes to do and knows how to market himself. >> >>By the way, the new Tom Brown Tracker Knife made so popular by the >>movie, "The Hunted", may look really cool but is as unpractical a >>knife as any I've seen, and at $300.00 is a waste of money in my >>opinion. >> >>Later, >> >>Mike Powell, Poison River Booshway >>AMM #1769 >>POISON RIVER PARTY >>"Ride, Ride, Ride" >> >>"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >> >> >From: MarkLoader@aol.com >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Tom Brown >>Jr. >Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:39:55 EST > >Hello the Camp > >I >>have been reading several books by and about Tom Brown, Jr. >His >>experience and knowledge are in line with the live style of the >>Indian >there for the Mountainman. If you have not read some of >>these books you should. >My question is: Has anyone in the group >>taken any of the courses he offers on >wilderness skills and >>tracking? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader AMM #1849 >> >> >>---------- >><http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2749??PS=>Check out MSN PC Safety & >>Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. >>---------------------- hist_text list info: >>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html </div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2746??PS=">All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN.</a> </html>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:04:54 -0700
From: "tom" <thsb@earthlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: the alamo and history channel special
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I personally am looking forward to seeing the Alamo. I have a profound respect for Texans and their struggle for independence. I'll bet all you Texas brothers are "stoked"
i saw a special on the history channel last night about davey crocket and Daniel boone, I thought i saw mark baker playing davey crocked????? I've never noticed before but baker looks an awful lot like Crocket. i also watched another special on the filming of the movie and Billy Bob Thornton mentioned something about the on set re enactors. he said he was a little intimidated when he would come out of his trailer in the morning sipping a cappuccino and would see the re enactors bathing in the creek having slept outside all night.
just some thoughts, Tom AMM # 1834 PRP
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Jones
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Sent: 3/30/2004 11:27:40 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Alamo
A friend of mine, Taylor Anderson, worked for the duration of the filming of the Alamo movie, both as an extra and as a weapons/cannon expert (he is probably the finest period rifle and pistol maker in Texas at present and his knowledge of period firearms if beyond compare). His opinion is to be trusted.
Thought some of you might be going to this movie, so I thought is appropriate to share Taylor's thoughts with you.
Paul
Howdy, all. I went to Austin for the Cast and Crew screening of The Alamo last night. A good time was had by all and I got to visit with good folks again. Mainly, though, YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE THIS FILM!!! They cut out a LOT of stuff, including a lot of scenes of me! (how rude) , but it is still outstanding. If you were in this movie, you WILL be seen. (sometimes more than some of the 'stars' whose storylines went away during the cut). The bomb gag is still there, but it has been slightly modified so that it is not quite as egregious--a point that I still felt compelled to thank and harrass John Lee about--He took my comments sheepishly, but then I went on to congratulate him for EVERYTHING else! I am pretty tickled. So many people worked so hard and so long, and they will feel the vindication of a job well done!
Taylor
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<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD>
<DIV>I personally am looking forward to seeing the Alamo. I have a profound respect for Texans and their struggle for independence. I'll bet all you Texas brothers are "stoked" </DIV>
<DIV>i saw a special on the history channel last night about davey crocket and Daniel boone, I thought i saw mark baker playing davey crocked????? I've never noticed before but baker looks an awful lot like Crocket. i also watched another special on the filming of the movie and Billy Bob Thornton mentioned something about the on set re enactors. he said he was a little intimidated when he would come out of his trailer in the morning sipping a cappuccino and would see the re enactors bathing in the creek having slept outside all night. </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=2>A friend of mine, Taylor Anderson, worked for the duration of the filming of the Alamo movie, both as an extra and as a weapons/cannon expert (he is probably the finest period rifle and pistol maker in Texas at present and his knowledge of period firearms if beyond compare). His opinion is to be trusted.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=2>Thought some of you might be going to this movie, so I thought is appropriate to share Taylor's thoughts with you.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>Howdy, all. I went to Austin for the Cast and Crew screening of The Alamo last night. A good time was had by all and I got to visit with good folks again. Mainly, though, YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE THIS FILM!!! They cut out a LOT of stuff, including a lot of scenes of me! (how rude) , but it is still outstanding. If you were in this movie, you WILL be seen. (sometimes more than some of the 'stars' whose storylines went away during the cut). The bomb gag is still there, but it has been slightly modified so that it is not quite as egregious--a point that I still felt compelled to thank and harrass John Lee about--He took my comments sheepishly, but then I went on to congratulate him for EVERYTHING else! I am pretty tickled. So many people worked so hard and so long, and they will feel the vindication of a job well done!</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Mike I have seen pictures of the knife and could not how it woul=
d be practical.</DIV>
<DIV>He states in his information that if you are looking for hard core=
survival his is not the one. </DIV>
<DIV>Checked out Mountain Mel's web site looks interesting. Does make me won=
der about anyone that would use Mountain Mel as a handle.</DIV>
<DIV>Right now I am just checking things out. Are there any discussion group=
s on survival?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Mark</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:14:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan Offutt <srf90@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tom Brown Jr.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I can offer a firsthand impression of the current tracker school experience. The standard class, required before taking any other classes, is heavily lecture based. The class is an attempt to provide students with all of the information they need to learn the skills necessary to survive in most environments without any modern gear if need be. There are some hands on skills taught, however to cover all of the material that way would take much longer than a week. In fact the estimate for how long you would need to practice just the skills covered in the standard to reach a point of mastery is about 10 years. The class gives everyone an equal basis of knowledge to prepare them for the more advanced classes. It is up to you to actually practice the stuff once you get home. Many people choose not to. This is perhaps one of the reasons some feel that tracker students don't learn much that is useful. That is a reflection on the individual students, not the school. The comment about not
being about hard core survival is regarding how you actually live while most of the classes, not the skills taught.You do not hike miles each day and live as if in a full survival situation. They can provide you with more information by not doing those things. I went to the standard last spring with a pretty good understanding of the basics of the skills taught. I figured it would be mostly just something to get out of the way in order to take more advanced classes. What I found however, was that although a large portion of the material was not new to me, I picked up on some of the more subtle aspects that make the things work so much better than just following directions in a book. Tom does not teach much, or sometimes I understand, any of the standard class. He does have excellent instructors, who are always willing to make sure that you get the most out of the experience. The tracking portion covers basicly everything in the Field Guide to Nature Observation and Tracking as well
as The Art and Science of Tracking, plus some extra stuff you really have to take the class for. The advanced standard is biased the other way towards hands on experience learning how to make the various items needed for survival such as shelter, containers, tools for hunting, etc. You could never finish in class all of the projects that you start. Again there are tips and tricks I have not seen in print, and having someone to help you while learning saves considerable time and unnecessary mistakes. In addition, a number of traps not in books are presented, although it is up to you to actually practice them at home. Advanced camo and movement are presented and a demo of military camo vs what you are taught is done which really points out the limitations of the military stuff. Tom does teach part of the class. The final class which I can comment on is advanced tracking. This class had the most lecture by Tom of the three. It is very intense, with none of the material from the
standard repeated. Most time is devoted to actually tracking in a variety of difficult conditions. The first day we tracked yearling deer in pine straw, week old trails which the deer used repeatedly. It can be sort of difficult to stay on the correct trail, but after passing by the same area a few days later, the tracks just about lept out. You really reprogram your brain to see tracks almost everyone else would miss. Pick tracking in debris and scrape tracking in sand are covered which allow you to find tracks which are years old. The easiest tracking was the last night. We tracked day old fox trails in pine needles at night. Being able to position the light source, plus having tracked in the other more difficult soils made it a breeze. The quality of the insruction at present is very good and beyond the advanced standard, you will not find the material in the other classes in a book. In fact, virtually nothing presented in the advanced tracking class could be effectivly taught
without actual student / instructor interaction. Prior to going to the Tracker School, I studied and practiced from books, Toms and others, for years. I think that the school is a very effective way to learn the material in significantly less time than it would take using just books. You also then gain the option of going on to other more advanced classes which teach things not found in any book. The skills have all proven effective for me so far. Realize what the class is and what it isn't. Go with an open mind. Tom says to prove him right or prove him wrong, just get off your ass and get some dirt time. When Kevin says to take a good look at the ground because you will never see it in the same way again in an hour, realize that he is not trying to be dramatic, you really will look at things differently. You will have taken the first small step towards seeing the world through the eyes of a master tracker. As far as the knife goes, I don't plan to get one either. I think it is
supposed to do too many things, and doesn't do any of them well. I'll be happy to answer any questions on or off list.
Nathan Offutt
MarkLoader@aol.com wrote:
Hello the Camp
I have been reading several books by and about Tom Brown, Jr.
His experience and knowledge are in line with the live style of the Indian there for the Mountainman. If you have not read some of these books you should.
My question is: Has anyone in the group taken any of the courses he offers on wilderness skills and tracking?
Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader AMM #1849
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
- --0-1254931291-1080706442=:86506
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>
<DIV>I can offer a firsthand impression of the current tracker school experience. The standard class, required before taking any other classes, is heavily lecture based. The class is an attempt to provide students with all of the information they need to learn the skills necessary to survive in most environments without any modern gear if need be. There are some hands on skills taught, however to cover all of the material that way would take much longer than a week. In fact the estimate for how long you would need to practice just the skills covered in the standard to reach a point of mastery is about 10 years. The class gives everyone an equal basis of knowledge to prepare them for the more advanced classes. It is up to you to actually practice the stuff once you get home. Many people choose not to. This is perhaps one of the reasons some feel that tracker students don't learn much that is useful. That is a reflection on the individual students, not the
school. The comment about not being about hard core survival is regarding how you actually live while most of the classes, not the skills taught.You do not hike miles each day and live as if in a full survival situation. They can provide you with more information by not doing those things. I went to the standard last spring with a pretty good understanding of the basics of the skills taught. I figured it would be mostly just something to get out of the way in order to take more advanced classes. What I found however, was that although a large portion of the material was not new to me, I picked up on some of the more subtle aspects that make the things work so much better than just following directions in a book. Tom does not teach much, or sometimes I understand, any of the standard class. He does have excellent instructors, who are always willing to make sure that you get the most out of the experience. The tracking portion covers basicly everything in the Field Guide to
Nature Observation and Tracking as well as The Art and Science of Tracking, plus some extra stuff you really have to take the class for. The advanced standard is biased the other way towards hands on experience learning how to make the various items needed for survival such as shelter, containers, tools for hunting, etc. You could never finish in class all of the projects that you start. Again there are tips and tricks I have not seen in print, and having someone to help you while learning saves considerable time and unnecessary mistakes. In addition, a number of traps not in books are presented, although it is up to you to actually practice them at home. Advanced camo and movement are presented and a demo of military camo vs what you are taught is done which really points out the limitations of the military stuff. Tom does teach part of the class. The final class which I can comment on is advanced tracking. This class had the most lecture by Tom of the three. It is very
intense, with none of the material from the standard repeated. Most time is devoted to actually tracking in a variety of difficult conditions. The first day we tracked yearling deer in pine straw, week old trails which the deer used repeatedly. It can be sort of difficult to stay on the correct trail, but after passing by the same area a few days later, the tracks just about lept out. You really reprogram your brain to see tracks almost everyone else would miss. Pick tracking in debris and scrape tracking in sand are covered which allow you to find tracks which are years old. The easiest tracking was the last night. We tracked day old fox trails in pine needles at night. Being able to position the light source, plus having tracked in the other more difficult soils made it a breeze. The quality of the insruction at present is very good and beyond the advanced standard, you will not find the material in the other classes in a book. In fact, virtually nothing presented in the advanced
tracking class could be effectivly taught without actual student / instructor interaction. Prior to going to the Tracker School, I studied and practiced from books, Toms and others, for years. I think that the school is a very effective way to learn the material in significantly less time than it would take using just books. You also then gain the option of going on to other more advanced classes which teach things not found in any book. The skills have all proven effective for me so far. Realize what the class is and what it isn't. Go with an open mind. Tom says to prove him right or prove him wrong, just get off your ass and get some dirt time. When Kevin says to take a good look at the ground because you will never see it in the same way again in an hour, realize that he is not trying to be dramatic, you really will look at things differently. You will have taken the first small step towards seeing the world through the eyes of a master tracker. As far as the knife goes, I don't
plan to get one either. I think it is supposed to do too many things, and doesn't do any of them well. I'll be happy to answer any questions on or off list.</DIV>
<DIV>I have been reading several books by and about Tom Brown, Jr. </DIV>
<DIV>His experience and knowledge are in line with the live style of the Indian there for the Mountainman. If you have not read some of these books you should. </DIV>
<DIV>My question is: Has anyone in the group taken any of the courses he offers on wilderness skills and tracking?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader AMM #1849</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
