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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #132 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, September 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number 132 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:19:49 -0600 From: Forrest Smouse <smouse@ubtanet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leman Rifle James C. Zeigler wrote: > > Hello: > I was wondering if anyone knows of a semi-custom maker > > of a H.E. Leman rife? I was thinking about getting a full- > > stock flinter.....Thanks in advance, Jim Z. I have a friend who worked for green river rifle years ago. When they went out of business he picked up a number of barrels and stocks. I one as a Leman Flinter as a kit from his about five years age. If you have him make it, it may take well over a year for him to finish it. To contact him Les Bennett Uintah Basin Applied Technology Center 1100 East Lagoon St. 124-5 Roosevelt, Ut 84066 Les@ubatc.tec.ut.us Good luck, Forrest Smouse ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:03:55 -0500 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <yrrw@cyberramp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan Has anybody had any first hand experience with commercial brain tan? I know there is no substitute for the real thing, but deer hides that are large enough to make leggins and coats out of are real hard to come by in Texas. I'm working on getting some that are that large this season but there is no sure thing. I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of how the commercial stuff works for clothing. Pendleton P.S. A buddy of mine is making some shooting bags out of it that are real nice. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:19:49 -0600 From: Forrest Smouse <smouse@ubtanet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leman Rifle James C. Zeigler wrote: > > Hello: > I was wondering if anyone knows of a semi-custom maker > > of a H.E. Leman rife? I was thinking about getting a full- > > stock flinter.....Thanks in advance, Jim Z. I have a friend who worked for green river rifle years ago. When they went out of business he picked up a number of barrels and stocks. I one as a Leman Flinter as a kit from his about five years age. If you have him make it, it may take well over a year for him to finish it. To contact him Les Bennett Uintah Basin Applied Technology Center 1100 East Lagoon St. 124-5 Roosevelt, Ut 84066 Les@ubatc.tec.ut.us Good luck, Forrest Smouse ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:37:29 EDT From: MIA3WOLVES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan As a quillworker, I HATE it. The fibers are not broken down enough to lend itself to being a good base for quill or beadwork. It may be a good substitute for clothing as it does look nice Red Hawk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:26:47 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercial brain tan This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDD443.BF2F7E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well two years ago my wife and I purchased some Tandy Brain Tan and it worked real well Karen is offended with the smoke of the Hand done stuff. She has so far sewn on over 4000 beads and it sews like hand done stuff. It was about 3.90 a square yard better then 10.00 hope this will help. - ---------- : From: yellow rose/pendleton <yrrw@cyberramp.net> : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan : Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM : : Has anybody had any first hand experience with commercial brain tan? I know : there is no substitute for the real thing, but deer hides that are large : enough to make leggins and coats out of are real hard to come by in Texas. : I'm working on getting some that are that large this season but there is no : sure thing. I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of how the : commercial stuff works for clothing. : Pendleton : P.S. : A buddy of mine is making some shooting bags out of it that are real nice. : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDD443.BF2F7E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">Well two years ago my wife and I = purchased some Tandy Brain Tan and it worked real well Karen is offended = with the smoke of the Hand done stuff. She has so far sewn on over = 4000 beads and it sews like hand done stuff. It was about 3.90 a square = yard better then 10.00 hope this will help. ---------- : = From: yellow rose/pendleton <yrrw@cyberramp.net> : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan : = Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM : : Has anybody had any = first hand experience with commercial brain tan? I know : there is no = substitute for the real thing, but deer hides that are large : enough = to make leggins and coats out of are real hard to come by in Texas. : = I'm working on getting some that are that large this season but there is = no : sure thing. I was just wondering if anyone has any = knowledge of how the : commercial stuff works for clothing. : = Pendleton : P.S. : A buddy of mine is making some shooting = bags out of it that are real nice. : </body></html> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDD443.BF2F7E20-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 02:33:48 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercial brain tan JOHN BET YOU MENT A SQ FT NOT YARD--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:26:47 -0700 "JON P TOWNS" <AMM944@prodigy.net> writes: >ncoding: 7bit > >Well two years ago my wife and I purchased some Tandy Brain Tan and it >worked real well Karen is offended with the smoke of the Hand done >stuff. >She has so far sewn on over 4000 beads and it sews like hand done >stuff. It >was about 3.90 a square yard better then 10.00 hope this will help. > >---------- >: From: yellow rose/pendleton <yrrw@cyberramp.net> >: To: hist_text@xmission.com >: Subject: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan >: Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM >: >: Has anybody had any first hand experience with commercial brain tan? >I >know >: there is no substitute for the real thing, but deer hides that are >large >: enough to make leggins and coats out of are real hard to come by in >Texas. >: I'm working on getting some that are that large this season but >there is >no >: sure thing. I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of how >the >: commercial stuff works for clothing. >: Pendleton >: P.S. >: A buddy of mine is making some shooting bags out of it that are real >nice. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 02:16:31 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leman Rifle James drop me a note off line and tell me what you want I might be able to help you out---just finishing up a H.E. Leman half stock restoration job. can send you some pictures of it if you like---the only flint Leman I have seen is in dillen's book and talked about in the kindig book. Henry leman learned his trade from Malcomb Fordney in 1830 re:pg 25 kindig worked in lancaster pa-- made a lot of guns but all full stocks differ from the fordney lines except the one in dillen's book. what are you looking for--one similar to fordney or a full stock trade type gun except with a flint lock---you can also give me a call any time and we will talk about it. If I cant make it I can send you to a couple of people that are reputable and won't get to you. remember a custom or a semi custom wont come cheep. I do all of my work by hand except for a bandsaw to cut the wood and a router to cut the barrel channel. I use no precarves and finish them the same as the originals to include the staining---use no modern spray finishes--all hand rubbed and hand applied---takes me about 150 hrs of labor minimum and closer to 200---Don steith has a precarve and so does pecatonica river --have seen them and their quality is good but have never tried to put one of their precarves together---would cut down on the labor hrs. I get most of my wood from freddy harrison in Tennisee---remember good wood dont come cheep and neither does barrels and locks---you are looking at about $600 outlay before you start if you want a truly quality gun--REMEMBER WOOD MAKES A GUN BUT THE BARREL IS WHAT MAKES IT SHOOT. AND THE LOCK IS WHAT MAKES IT DEPENDABLE. I normally put in silver toutch hole liners and usually furnish an extra with the gun but have put in steel ones for some people who asked for it. GIVE ME A CALL AND WE CAN TALK--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:56:52 -0400 "James C. Zeigler" <slzeigle@earth.sunlink.net> writes: >Hello: > I was wondering if anyone knows of a semi-custom maker > > of a H.E. Leman rife? I was thinking about getting a full- > > stock flinter.....Thanks in advance, Jim Z. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:42:18 -0700 From: Flying Cloud <flyingcd@rosenet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Madison Grant Books TetonTod@aol.com wrote: > > A book dealer named Jim Hayden was at the Rocky Mountain Natioanl Rendezvous > last month. He had all of grants books at the usual proces (around $35.00 ea) > He's from Oregon, will look for his card in my chest tonight. > > Todd Glover Goodmornig All Jim Hayden lives in Springfield, Or and his Phone number is 541-746-1819 - -- Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:04:27 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Harbold" <tharbold@ns1.wmdc.edu> Subject: MtMan-List: 1750s-1770s Firearms (long rifles) Apologies for multiple/cross-postings, and/or out-of-period... 1) Can anyone provide suggestions for an appropriate long-arm for a 1750s (F&I) militiaman/Provincial ranger and post-war longhunter in the backcountry of Maryland, Virginia, and Pennsylvania? Since this persona will also serve in the AWI, again most likely in a ranger/rifleman/militia unit, it'd be best if it was a weapon which he could plausibly retain through the 1770s, as well. 2) Can anyone provide suggestions for a relatively economical source for such a weapon, either new or good-condition used? I would greatly appreciate any assistance in this regard, since (as some of you know) I'm just starting out, and am handicapped by rather limited financial resources. Many thanks, and again many apologies to those who receive multiple copies of this post. Yrs most humbly, Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:44:23 EDT From: Grantd9@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: RIT dye remover experiment-results I experimented with the RIT dye remover over the weekend. At first I bought one box and tryed it on one hide in the washer with the setting on low water. It took all of the yellow/orange out of the hide, but didn't lighten it very much. I then went and bought four packages and put them all in the washer with the water set on high. I added about 8 hides and ran it through the adgitate cycle 4 or 5 times. Within the first 15 minutes it had taken nearly all of the color out of them! I think I might of had the RIT just a little too strong. They looked gray in the washing machine. Luckily when I dryed them they turned a nice light cream color. All in all I am happy with the results. I just dryed them in the dryer on high through about 3 cycles and then I stretched them by hand. They are just as soft as when they went in. I had one hide that came out kind of splochy and hopefully can be saved by running it through another RIT bath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:03:43 -0400 From: "Mill, Kirk" <millk@aydin.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Wallenpaupac Rendezvous Does anyone out there know anything about a rondy being put on by the Garden State Reenactors Sept. 26-27 at Fort Wallenpaupac PA? Kirk Mill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:36:42 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RIT dye remover experiment-results I assume that these were commercial tanned deer hides. HBC >I experimented with the RIT dye remover over the weekend. At first I bought >one box and tryed it on one hide in the washer with the setting on low water. >It took all of the yellow/orange out of the hide, but didn't lighten it very >much. I then went and bought four packages and put them all in the washer >with the water set on high. I added about 8 hides and ran it through the >adgitate cycle 4 or 5 times. Within the first 15 minutes it had taken nearly >all of the color out of them! I think I might of had the RIT just a little >too strong. They looked gray in the washing machine. Luckily when I dryed >them they turned a nice light cream color. All in all I am happy with the >results. I just dryed them in the dryer on high through about 3 cycles and >then I stretched them by hand. They are just as soft as when they went in. >I had one hide that came out kind of splochy and hopefully can be saved by >running it through another RIT bath. ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:51:13 -0400 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercial brain tan - --------------FD7D3E9AB5389106977EF70D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The smoke smell dissipates with time. But it is the look that really makes brian tan stand out. I do all be bead and quill work on brain tan. Still do some on commercial for the person who not so discerning on materials. I LOVE the smell of the smoky tan in the morning or night. Now I want to go camping. Anything good going on the the south east????? Linda Holley JON P TOWNS wrote: > Well two years ago my wife and I purchased some Tandy Brain Tan and it > worked real well Karen is offended with the smoke of the Hand done > stuff. She has so far sewn on over 4000 beads and it sews like hand > done stuff. It was about 3.90 a square yard better then 10.00 hope > this will help. > > ---------- > : From: yellow rose/pendleton <yrrw@cyberramp.net> > : To: hist_text@xmission.com > : Subject: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan > : Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM > : > : Has anybody had any first hand experience with commercial brain tan? > I know > : there is no substitute for the real thing, but deer hides that are > large > : enough to make leggins and coats out of are real hard to come by in > Texas. > : I'm working on getting some that are that large this season but > there is no > : sure thing. I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of how > the > : commercial stuff works for clothing. > : Pendleton > : P.S. > : A buddy of mine is making some shooting bags out of it that are real > nice. > : - --------------FD7D3E9AB5389106977EF70D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF"> The smoke smell dissipates with time. But it is the look that really makes brian tan stand out. I do all be bead and quill work on brain tan. Still do some on commercial for the person who not so discerning on materials. I LOVE the smell of the smoky tan in the morning or night. Now I want to go camping. Anything good going on the the south east????? Linda Holley JON P TOWNS wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Well two years ago my wife and I purchased some Tandy Brain Tan and it worked real well Karen is offended with the smoke of the Hand done stuff. She has so far sewn on over 4000 beads and it sews like hand done stuff. It was about 3.90 a square yard better then 10.00 hope this will help. ---------- : From: yellow rose/pendleton <yrrw@cyberramp.net> : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: commrecial brain tan : Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM : : Has anybody had any first hand experience with commercial brain tan? I know : there is no substitute for the real thing, but deer hides that are large : enough to make leggins and coats out of are real hard to come by in Texas. : I'm working on getting some that are that large this season but there is no : sure thing. I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of how the : commercial stuff works for clothing. : Pendleton : P.S. : A buddy of mine is making some shooting bags out of it that are real nice. :</BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> - --------------FD7D3E9AB5389106977EF70D-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:09:27 -0700 From: "Thomas W. Roberts" <troberts@gdi.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leman Rifle If you would be so kind as to more fully describe the two books (dillen & kindig) you reference it would sure help me research for the firearm I'm intending to build/buy. Thanks ! Tom (troberts@gdi.net) Michael Pierce wrote: > James drop me a note off line and tell me what you want I might be able > to help you out---just finishing up a H.E. Leman half stock restoration > job. can send you some pictures of it if you like---the only flint Leman > I have seen is in dillen's book and talked about in the kindig book. > Henry leman learned his trade from Malcomb Fordney in 1830 re:pg 25 > kindig worked in lancaster pa-- made a lot of guns but all full stocks > differ from the fordney lines except the one in dillen's book. what are > you looking for--one similar to fordney or a full stock trade type gun > except with a flint lock---you can also give me a call any time and we > will talk about it. > > If I cant make it I can send you to a couple of people that are reputable > and won't get to you. remember a custom or a semi custom wont come > cheep. I do all of my work by hand except for a bandsaw to cut the wood > and a router to cut the barrel channel. I use no precarves and finish > them the same as the originals to include the staining---use no modern > spray finishes--all hand rubbed and hand applied---takes me about 150 hrs > of labor minimum and closer to 200---Don steith has a precarve and so > does pecatonica river --have seen them and their quality is good but have > never tried to put one of their precarves together---would cut down on > the labor hrs. I get most of my wood from freddy harrison in > Tennisee---remember good wood dont come cheep and neither does barrels > and locks---you are looking at about $600 outlay before you start if you > want a truly quality gun--REMEMBER WOOD MAKES A GUN BUT THE BARREL IS > WHAT MAKES IT SHOOT. AND THE LOCK IS WHAT MAKES IT DEPENDABLE. > > I normally put in silver toutch hole liners and usually furnish an extra > with the gun but have put in steel ones for some people who asked for it. > GIVE ME A CALL AND WE CAN TALK--- > > "Hawk" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 > 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com > > On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:56:52 -0400 "James C. Zeigler" > <slzeigle@earth.sunlink.net> writes: > >Hello: > > I was wondering if anyone knows of a semi-custom maker > > > > of a H.E. Leman rife? I was thinking about getting a full- > > > > stock flinter.....Thanks in advance, Jim Z. > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:00:36 EDT From: Grantd9@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: RIT dye remover experiment-results Yes they were commercially tanned deer hides that were the icky yellowish orange color. They now have a nice natural cream tan color. Much better. Grant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:37:43 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leman Rifle HERE IS A EVALUATION AND SUMATION AND BACKGROUND FOR LEMAN GUNS The two books by dillin and kendig are probably some of the best information on guns out ther and most collectors and builders and such believe them to near being the bible on early guns . I have several books that show LEMAN rifles so here is a few with pages and figure numbers---and such along with my comments and BS added--to sturr everyone up 1. The pensylvania Kentuckey Rifle Author Henry j. Kauffman library of congress card # 59-14376 by stackpole books Harrisburg Pa.17105 Leman, henry page 24 plate 23 pg40 and 120 plate # 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 237 NOTE: these are all percussion guns on page 24 it refers to special order flints primarily on trade guns---none shown 2. The kentuckey rifle Author John G. W. Dillen library of congress card# 74-3685 Published by George Schumway publisher r. d. 7 York Pa 17402 NOTE: several lemans are refered to in this book this is what makes for confusion for a lot of people---they are listed as follows-- Leman ---- page-50 (flint rifle), page 51, page 77(type of rifleing), page 124 (target and loads), page 155(half stock indian trade guns), Page 187 (description of types of lemans)(warns of rifles made from leman parts) Leman H.F.---page 77 (shows rifleing type) Leman and Lescher--- page 49 (historical background) (IMPORTANT) Leman Peter ---page 27, 43 (the swiss) (worked in the 17oo's probably Henrys father--- 3. Kentuckey patch boxes and barrel marks author Roy f. chandler--library of congress number 70-176268 pages 244, 245, 246 (shows patch box other than on the indian trade trade rifles)(or half stocks. 4. The plains rifle autho Charles e. Hanson library of congress# 59-14379 ISBN #0-88227-015-015X pages 8, 10, 73,75,76,100 shows lemon worked for tyron and apprenticed under malcomb fordney gives a historical perspective comparing to other plains rifles--- 5. the trade rifle sketch book Author charles e.hanson pages 38 thru 41---gives the basic contours and outlines of the leman trade guns. (PRIMARILY INDIAN TRADE GUNS HALF STOCK) 6. Thoughts of the kentuckey rifle in it's golden age Author Joe kindig jr library of congress # 61-23719 sbn # 87387-033-6 pages 23, 131 note page 23 questions the existance of the man named leman before 1750 there are records that prove leman apprentived with malcom fordney in lancaster in 1825 @ age 20 -- this states no leman' s can be documented before 1825 even thou they exist -(NOTE: PROBABLY LEMAN (THE SWISS) or H. E. Leman's father or earlier relative)---page 131 documents apprentiship with Malcomb fordney and that is the reason why those flint guns that are built by leman sometimes closely resemble a fordney in contour and outline All known flints were of a special order variety and can be dated 1825 to 1830 and were probably made while leman was a apprentice or shortly there after THERE ARE YOUR REFERENCES AND NOW FOR MY COMMENTS: You can find the name Leman in almost ever gun book written he was a marvel in how many guns (SUPOSITIVELY ) he produced---(as a company not as a individual)---have only seen 3 or 4 hand signed lemans most are production stamps those that are hand signed are in the patchboxes and barrel marks and possibly are flint but i doubt that---in the 1830 and 40 and later not many people wanted flint guns---thus the assumption that a flint was a special order--for 10 half stocks you might see 1 full stock of those that exist today---leman hired a bunch of people and produced parts and sold a lot of parts---unless a gun is stamped with the words h.e. leman lancaster pa on the top barrel flat on one line it probably was a production gun and not specifically made by H.E. Leman (NOW that statement will probably get me some flack but that is my feeling) those stamps that are stacked with more than one line are the production guns, or guns made from the parts made by H.E. Leman and company----all of his production guns were cheepies and intended for trade on the fronteer- the quality ones have a one line stamp and say more than Just Leman---It is my feeling that the word "Leman " stamped by its self was a gun made from parts and not by H.E. leman or his company-- it was a style of gun just as Tyrone and company---made a certain style--- the only flint gun that i have seen pictures of looks like a malcomb fordney gun---only a lot simpeler and less trim work--- I hope this is what you want and i have been of some help to you-- my conclusion is that most guns marked leman were parts guns and cheepies except for only a few and darn few were flint. I have a fordney gun and use it's contours when i make a flint rifle gun that someone wants to call a leman--the other makers seem to think that they can take a production leman gun and add a flint lock and you have a flint leman---NO SUCH THING BUBBA---not in my thinking and research---hope someone out there can sway my opinion---have seen several modern made indian trade guns that were suposively Leman style---my comment to that is BULL---would like to see some well documented flints that were lemans that dont follow the fordney lines---fordney was a real stickler on his form and contour and all of his apprentices nearly always followed his lines if they made a flint--guns. flints that dont follow these contours and forms are probably back restored guns or guns that the drum was removed and plugged and then a flint lock added after the fact to make the original more valuable and possibly older---remember the date of Leman's apprenticeship---1825-- going into the Percussion time frame more--- SUMMATION: a flint leman that doesnt follow the fordney lines is a parts gun that upon repair the percussion lock was removed and replaced with a flint and not done by H.E. Leman but by some other gunsmith--- If there is any question contact Lee Good in clarimore ok at the Davis museum and see what his comments are-- they dont have a flint leman that doesnt follow the fordney lines-- only one flint leman---largest collection of Muzzle Loading Rifles in the united states---normally has every variety and has a hell of a research library and database--- I WELCOME YOUR INPUT AND COMMENTS---AND HOPE SOMEONE OUT THERE CAN GIVE ME A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ON LEMAN---OTHER THAN WHAT I HAVE DOCUMENTED AND STATED. =+= "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:09:27 -0700 "Thomas W. Roberts" <troberts@gdi.net> writes: >If you would be so kind as to more fully describe the two books >(dillen & >kindig) you reference it would sure help me research for the firearm >I'm >intending to build/buy. >Thanks ! > >Tom > >(troberts@gdi.net) > > > >Michael Pierce wrote: > >> James drop me a note off line and tell me what you want I might be >able >> to help you out---just finishing up a H.E. Leman half stock >restoration >> job. can send you some pictures of it if you like---the only flint >Leman >> I have seen is in dillen's book and talked about in the kindig book. >> Henry leman learned his trade from Malcomb Fordney in 1830 re:pg 25 >> kindig worked in lancaster pa-- made a lot of guns but all full >stocks >> differ from the fordney lines except the one in dillen's book. what >are >> you looking for--one similar to fordney or a full stock trade type >gun >> except with a flint lock---you can also give me a call any time and >we >> will talk about it. >> >> If I cant make it I can send you to a couple of people that are >reputable >> and won't get to you. remember a custom or a semi custom wont come >> cheep. I do all of my work by hand except for a bandsaw to cut the >wood >> and a router to cut the barrel channel. I use no precarves and >finish >> them the same as the originals to include the staining---use no >modern >> spray finishes--all hand rubbed and hand applied---takes me about >150 hrs >> of labor minimum and closer to 200---Don steith has a precarve and >so >> does pecatonica river --have seen them and their quality is good but >have >> never tried to put one of their precarves together---would cut down >on >> the labor hrs. I get most of my wood from freddy harrison in >> Tennisee---remember good wood dont come cheep and neither does >barrels >> and locks---you are looking at about $600 outlay before you start if >you >> want a truly quality gun--REMEMBER WOOD MAKES A GUN BUT THE BARREL >IS >> WHAT MAKES IT SHOOT. AND THE LOCK IS WHAT MAKES IT DEPENDABLE. >> >> I normally put in silver toutch hole liners and usually furnish an >extra >> with the gun but have put in steel ones for some people who asked >for it. >> GIVE ME A CALL AND WE CAN TALK--- >> >> "Hawk" >> Michael Pierce >> 854 Glenfield Dr. >> Palm Harbor, florida 34684 >> 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com >> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:56:52 -0400 "James C. Zeigler" >> <slzeigle@earth.sunlink.net> writes: >> >Hello: >> > I was wondering if anyone knows of a semi-custom maker >> > >> > of a H.E. Leman rife? I was thinking about getting a full- >> > >> > stock flinter.....Thanks in advance, Jim Z. >> > >> > >> >> >_____________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:28:51 -0500 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" <yrrw@cyberramp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Leman Rifle Hawk, I read somewhere that Leman's first govt. contract was for a small number of flint guns. For the life of me I can't remember where I read it. I have seen one full stock Leman at a anique gun show. As you have said the name on the top flat of the barrel was in one line. It was a big bore gun, probably .60 cal., rather thick wristed with plain wood. It was a percusion gun. Leman made rifles under several names for the govt. Indian Trade. One that was, by todays standards quite bizzare, was THE CONESTOGA RIFLE WORKS. I believe it is Kaufman's book that states these guns were stocked in curly maple then painted with barn red paint to be more appealing ot the Indians. I agree that there were probably very few flint Leman's. As far as I know there isn't any of those first contract guns that survived. Pendleton ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #132 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.