#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=
=3D"0"><B><BR>
Peculiar how that is acceptable but if it were an Indian he would have been=20=
spirited away by the feds for the Indians to re-bury.<BR>
RJames</B></FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:56:50 -0700 (MST)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lee's Question
Sparks,
We have to stop spreading that "month with an R" in it stuff about fur
being prime. There is no fur anywhere in the US that is prime in
September and most is shot long before April.
That is an old rule of thumb that needs to stop being repeated. It
misleads the beginner hunters and simply is false.
Respectfully,
bb
> As beaverboy says...rocky mountain trapping used to go on all year.
> Unlike todays "any month with an R in it" is a trapping month (with
> good pelts), the off season was trapped, too. That's because they
> weren't as interested in pelts nearly as much as the fur from the pelts
> so it could be felted up for hats.
>
> As for trapping in the 'summer,' Ol' Gabe himself said there are only
> three seasons in the rocky mountains...July, August and winter.
>
> Sparks
>
>
> beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
>
>> Being Beaverboy I guess I should say something about beaver. I've
>> trapped
>>trouble beaver for over 20 years and it is very easy to kill all the
>>beaver in an area. They are not the smartest animal. What deters most
>>people from trapping them is the amount of work involved in carrying and
>>skinning them.
>> Generally I have found it takes at least two years for other beaver to
>>move into a trapped out area. That is if there are any other beaver in
>>neighboring water. As I tend to skip sections of river that I trap I
>>never trap them all.
>> One colony of beaver if not preyed upon can reproduce to 608 beaver in
>>a ten year period. Four kits a year is not a bad ratio for rebounding.
>>I have caught 10 beaver out of one den several times but most are two
>>adults and four kits. Thank goodness beaver are hardy and like to
>>reproduce.
>> What almost wiped out the beaver was hunting and trapping them during
>>the open water months and when they were pregnant or nursing. Some
>>people on this list actually believed the MM didn't trap in the summer
>>when actually they were done with the bulk of their trapping before
>>,for instance, the present day Montana trapping season evens opens
>>(November 1st)
>> In the early 1980's when fur was still worth something I had a hard
>>time getting permission to trap beaver near town. Beaver weren't nearly
>>as thick due to a lot of pressure and landowners enjoyed seeing them.
>>Now with prices barely covering expenses the population is booming and
>>everyone wants me to trap them.
>> I wrote on the list once of journal accounts of trappers "working a
>>stream until clean" and of Osborne Russell commencing his fall hunt in
>>I think it was July! One of his journal entries talked of him taking a
>>long bath after checking his traps! I think it was July or August.
>> bb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Wynn Ormond <cheyenne@pcu.net> wrote: It would be more interesting to
>>> ask
>>>for comments from men who had been involved in depredation trapping of
>>>beaver. In other words, in area were civilization has proven that
>>>mountain men would be able to trap with more ease than the high country,
>>>there remains such a population that the government supports their
>>>continued harvesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>Wyn, you are right.
>>>I sure never thought of that. There are probably official records
>>>somewhere that are related to depredation trapping of beaver. If I can
>>> get
>>>records from before 1900 that will prevent skeptics from saying "there
>>> are
>>>plenty of beaver NOW, it took that long for them to re-populate the
>>>areas".
>>>
>>>I don't think beaver reintroduction was that common in the West. I'll be
>>>contacting Wyoming Game and Fish to see what records they have regarding
>>>depredation complaints. I suppose I may as well contact the U.S. Forest
>>>Service about their records on reintroduction of beaver.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Lee Teter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:12:26 -0800
From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fire starting
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I don't wear glasses, but carry a lens....it looks fuzzy through it to me...<g>...... Randy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: James and Sue Stone
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Sent: 2/8/04 8:10:07 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fire starting
Unless I am doing something wrong, starting fires with eyeglasses only works for those with "cheaters" and far sighted people. Us near-sighted folks can't, unless I did it wrong. When I tried, the lens Spread the light, rather than gathered it.
Sparks
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jandsstone@earthlink.net href="mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net">James and Sue Stone</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: fire starting</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>Unless I am doing something wrong, starting fires with eyeglasses only works for those with "cheaters" and far sighted people. Us near-sighted folks can't, unless I did it wrong. When I tried, the lens Spread the light, rather than gathered it.<BR>Sparks<BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:07:54 -0700 (MST)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: lead bars
Interesting point, and true.
>> They have a skeleton of a white man in Choteau
>> Montana, named Old Sol. He is on display,
>
> Peculiar how that is acceptable but if it were an Indian he would have
> been
> spirited away by the feds for the Indians to re-bury.
> RJames
>
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:28:53 EST
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Kennewick Man
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/8/04 8:52:49 PM, SWzypher@aol.com writes:
> Peculiar how that is acceptable but if it were an Indian he would have been
> spirited away by the feds for the Indians to re-bury.
>
I just read where an appeals court judge has ruled on the "Kennewick Man"...
the scientists WILL be allowed to study the remains. (and no, it's not Capt
Lahti moving slow...<G>) The Indians are besides themselves because I think the
bones will prove the "Indians" were not the first, or only people/race in the
neighborhood. The implications are going to be far reaching.
For those that haven't heard of the Kenewick Man..... Some kids fround the
remains along the Columbia River and they date some 9000 years back...and they
ain't native. Here's a site on the story that I find fasinating! Tri-City
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 02:48:36 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tinder
Larry,
Excelsior of either wood or hemp is excellent for a commercial product to
learn with.
In the South Spanish Moss is a top choice. In California the inner bark of
the palm trees that line the streets works well.
Dried fungus of all kinds works well. Rotted aspen inner bark is
good. Cedar is among the best. Steel wool burns hot. A candle can light
even wet kindling. In a hurry (?) a little gun cotton can speed things
along. Dry meadow muffins can be used. Dry cattail is good, some areas
demand you prepare and carry a candle dry char and tinder, when everything
is perpetually wet, to have a fire you must be able to first create a
bright flame. There is something everywhere that makes good tinder, use
what you find. If damp; dry some out for the next fire you need to build.
If you can't build a fire regardless of conditions you may not survive a
critical test of your skills.
SnakeOyl...
At 08:40 PM 02/07/04, you wrote:
>I am doing an article on tinder, and got to wondering what types of material
>you are using for tinder in your parts of the country. With flint and
>steel, I catch the spark on char cloth. The char is placed into my tinder
>which produces flame, that I use to start the fire with kindling. Here in
>Montana, I have used dried grasses, wasp nest, bird nest, meadow mouse nest,
>shredded hemp, and shredded cottonwood inner bark. So what do you prefer?
>thanks.
>larry
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 03:48:38 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cathy smith's web site
Frank,
I see you've already been provided the address to Cathy Smith's web site.
I've known Cathy for about 25 years, her work will not disappoint you in
any way.
She was the first woman to ride into an AMM camp by traditional
transportation since the old days, she was fully attired as a Sioux Warrior
Woman in paint on a correct fully decorated woman's saddle. It was a party
I led up Yellowstone Creek out of The Ashley Valley, across The Uninta's to
The Henry's Fork of the Green; where white women, one a school marm, were
the second and third women to ride into the AMM National Rendezvous of 1981.
She is every bit as serious about her work and life as she sounds. She
used to braintan buffalo hides for a living, along with spinning and
braiding buffalo hair into rope, and doing all kinds of fancy quill &
beadwork, and lots more.
SnakeOyl...
At 09:56 PM 02/03/04, you wrote:
>Hopefully someone out there is familar with Cathy Smith and her work and
>web site. I found it once but didnt bookmark it. I would appreciate
>anyone replying that has her website.
>
>Thanks in Advance
>
>Frank Sablan
>Midland,Texas
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:12:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan Boyer <larpenteaur@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: lead bars
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Mr. Hanson of 'The Museum of the Fur Trade' sold several original molds years ago to my cousin. He cast and sold lead bars for several years out of those molds when running a period food business. Afraid with the amount of casting being done may crack or destroy the original molds, new copies were made. I believe the gentleman that runs Blue Heron Mercantile now has the copy molds and sells lead bars from them. Don't know if my cousin still has the originals or not, he had mentioned possibly loaning them to the AMM Museum project?
Nate.
SWzypher@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 02/08/2004 6:37:09 PM Mountain Standard Time, MarkLoader@aol.com writes:
I was hoping someone in Utah would have more information on the find. Was there more items? Is it in a museum? Any one live near the Wasatch Mountains of Utah?
They are less than 3 miles from where I live, but - they found the bar in 1932, a year before I was born. Charlie Hansen had it in the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska when I saw it years ago. Jim Hansen drew a nice picture of it in one of his first two Mountain Man Sketchbooks but didn't give the dimensions that were furnished in another posting on the subject. Jim or someone at the museum may be able to check the archives for other items (there were several) and the approximate location. Find out and I will go take a picture for you of the spot (though it may be covered with condos by now. Wasaatch Range is the backdrop for Salt Lake City.)
Dick James
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- --0-458889288-1076339563=:75905
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Mr. Hanson of 'The Museum of the Fur Trade' sold several original molds years ago to my cousin. He cast and sold lead bars for several years out of those molds when running a period food business. Afraid with the amount of casting being done may crack or destroy the original molds, new copies were made. I believe the gentleman that runs Blue Heron Mercantile now has the copy molds and sells lead bars from them. Don't know if my cousin still has the originals or not, he had mentioned possibly loaning them to the AMM Museum project?</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face="Times New Roman" size=3 FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="12"><B>In a message dated 02/08/2004 6:37:09 PM Mountain Standard Time, MarkLoader@aol.com writes:<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10" BACK="#ffffff"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE">I was hoping someone in Utah would have more information on the find. Was there more items? Is it in a museum? Any one live near the Wasatch Mountains of Utah? <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="12" BACK="#ffffff"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="12" BACK="#ffffff"><B><BR>They are less than 3 miles from where I live, but - they found the bar in 1932, a year before I was born. Charlie Hansen had it in the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska when I saw it years ago. Jim Hansen drew a nice picture of it in one of his first two <I>Mountain Man Sketchbooks </I>but didn't give the dimensions that were furnished in another posting on the subject. Jim or someone at
the museum may be able to check the archives for other items (there were several) and the approximate location. Find out and I will go take a picture for you of the spot (though it may be covered with condos by now. Wasaatch Range is the backdrop for Salt Lake City.)<BR>Dick James</B></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><p><hr SIZE=1>
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I found this at: http://sittingfoxagency.tripod.com/success/part10.html for an example of a later period of the trade of furs. Nate
_______________________________________
Trade of Furs
AN EXAMPLE OF HOW LATE THE TRADE WAS STILL GOING ON.
We always think of St. Louis as being the hub of the fur trade, but there were other locations that did quite well. For example: St. Paul , Minnesota took its fair share of the business. Below is a list seen in the St. Paul Advertiser, a local newspaper.
Animals # Skins Value
Rats 64,292 11,572.56
Minks 8,276 18,621.00
Martens 1,428 3,570.00
Fishers 1,045 4,702.50
Red Fox 876 1,095.00
Cross Fox 20 100.00
Silver Fox 8 400.00
Kit Fox 2,542 1,271.00
Coons 3,400 2,550.00
Wolverines 2,032 3,048.00
Otter 405 1,417.50
Beaver, lb.. 586 881.00
Bear 610 6,700.00
Lynx 50 125.00
Buffalo Robes 7,500 41,200.00
Total Value 93,070 $ 97,253.56
Now would you believe this was a poor year according to the Advertiser in 1856? A large amount of these furs were traded for in merchandise. The fur trade as we know it, was over, but trade in guns, blanket's, cookware and anything else was still moving across this country.
Think of the amount of furs gathered in the hay day of the fur trade 1820's to 1840's. Look for example at Ft. Union , a prime location and the amount of money that John Jacob Astor made is unbelievable, even by today's standards.
_________________________________________________
Wolverine <wolverine1@aaahawk.com> wrote:
In the time line mentioned, MN was a major producer of
furs,as well as WI... lesser was IL/Iowa/
Records of the St Louis Fur Co { at the foot of the Lacleads Landing are archived in the St Louis history center.
It should be noted that the St louis Fur Co still stands vacant
its towards the Union Power station, that was erected for the 1904 fair.
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-layout-grid-align: none" align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Copperplate Gothic Light'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'"><FONT face="times new roman" size=2><STRONG>I found this at: </STRONG></FONT><A href="http://sittingfoxagency.tripod.com/success/part10.html"><FONT face="times new roman" size=2><STRONG>http://sittingfoxagency.tripod.com/success/part10.html</STRONG></FONT></A><STRONG><FONT face="times new roman" size=2> for an example of a later period of the trade of furs. </FONT></STRONG></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Copperplate Gothic Light'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'"><STRONG><FONT face="times new roman" size=2>Nate</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-layout-grid-align: none" align=center><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Copperplate Gothic Light'">AN EXAMPLE OF HOW LATE THE TRADE WAS STILL GOING ON.</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-layout-grid-align: none" align=left><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">We always think of </SPAN><?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:CITY><ST1:PLACE><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">St. Louis</SPAN></ST1:PLACE> </ST1:CITY><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">as being the hub of the fur trade, but there were other locations that did quite well. For example: </SPAN><ST1:PLACE><ST1:CITY><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">St. Paul</SPAN></ST1:CITY> <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">, </SPAN><ST1:STATE><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">Minnesota</SPAN></ST1:STATE> </ST1:PLACE><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">took its fair share of the business. Below is a list seen in the <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">St. Paul Advertiser</I>, a local newspaper.<O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-layout-grid-align: none" align=left><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">Now would you believe this was a poor year according to the Advertiser in 1856? A large amount of these furs were traded for in merchandise. The fur trade as we know it, was over, but trade in guns, blanket's, cookware and anything else was still moving across this country.<O:P> </O:P></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-layout-grid-align: none" align=left><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">Think of the amount of furs gathered in the hay day of the fur trade 1820's to 1840's. Look for example at </SPAN><ST1:PLACE><ST1:PLACETYPE><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">Ft.</SPAN></ST1:PLACETYPE> <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'"></SPAN><ST1:PLACENAME><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">Union</SPAN></ST1:PLACENAME> </ST1:PLACE><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'">, a prime location and the amount of money that John Jacob Astor made is unbelievable, even by today's standards.</SPAN></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">In the time line mentioned, MN was a major producer of<BR>furs,as well as WI... lesser was IL/Iowa/<BR>Records of the St Louis Fur Co { at the foot of the Lacleads Landing are archived in the St Louis history center.<BR>It should be noted that the St louis Fur Co still stands vacant<BR>its towards the Union Power station, that was erected for the 1904 fair.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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