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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1277
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Monday, December 1 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1277
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing
-áááááá MtMan-List: wandering in the woods
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Firearms definitions defined
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:01:25 -0700
From: "Wynn Ormond" <cheyenne@pcu.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
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Capt.
Did you mean elk hides or just large hides? I have a small elk hide =
that was cut in half that I am going to try to tan soon and have =
wondered about using it for the back and deer elsewhere for a coat. =
Does anyone have any input on mixing types of skins like that?
Could you please also clarify the details of trimming with blanket wool. =
I think that was fairly common or at least not unheard of and would =
certainly add a splash of color and style.
And to Mike
I am diffenately no expert but try to visualize cutting into all the =
brain tan with no idea if its going to work (ie no pattern). Your a =
brave man if you can do that. Matt Richards in his book points out the =
fact that many times clothes have cuts that are not intuitively obvious. =
I would cut up an old garment or use a pattern or something at least.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: roger lahti=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
Mike,
Not that I am an expert on making brain tan frocks but I did make a =
long coat from a couple of elk size hides and a couple deer hides a few =
years back. I agonized over that project for quite a while because of =
the material I was going to cut into.
Well I finally took a pattern, actually a basic hunting frock coat to =
use so I knew what I might end up with. I think the coat came out quite =
nice with some non critical special touches I incorporated on my own. =
Flap pockets like on a Great Coat. A standup collar like on a military =
coat. Short fringe at most seams for esthetics. Trimmed with green wool =
blanket trimming from Pendleton. Nice bone buttons I had accumulated =
over the years.
But the most important thing I did was use a pattern of some kind. =
There are quite a few coat/frock patterns around and I would encourage =
you to find one you like and use it to decide how to best lay out and =
cut your hides.
Any questions or help needed, I'm just down the road a few miles.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
Kennewick WA.
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Did you mean elk hides or just large =
hides? I=20
have a small elk hide that was cut in half that I am going to try to tan =
soon=20
and have wondered about using it for the back and deer elsewhere for a=20
coat. Does anyone have any input on mixing types of skins like=20
that?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you please also clarify the =
details of=20
trimming with blanket wool. I think that was fairly common or at =
least not=20
unheard of and would certainly add a splash of color and=20
style.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And to Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am diffenately no expert but try to =
visualize=20
cutting into all the brain tan with no idea if its going to work (ie no=20
pattern). Your a brave man if you can do that. Matt Richards =
in his=20
book points out the fact that many times clothes have cuts that are =
not=20
intuitively obvious. I would cut up an old garment or use a =
pattern or=20
something at least.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Damm1719@charter.net =
href=3D"mailto:amm1719@charter.net">roger lahti</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 30, 2003 =
9:37=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Frock=20
coat?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Mike,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Not that I am an =
expert on=20
making brain tan frocks but I did make a long coat from a couple of =
elk size=20
hides and a couple deer hides a few years back. I agonized over that =
project=20
for quite a while because of the material I was going to cut=20
into.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Well I finally took =
a pattern,=20
actually a basic hunting frock coat to use so I knew what I might end =
up with.=20
I think the coat came out quite nice with some non critical special =
touches I=20
incorporated on my own. Flap pockets like on a Great Coat. A standup =
collar=20
like on a military coat. Short fringe at most seams for esthetics. =
Trimmed=20
with green wool blanket trimming from Pendleton. Nice bone buttons I =
had=20
accumulated over the years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>But the most =
important thing I=20
did was use a pattern of some kind. There are quite a few coat/frock =
patterns=20
around and I would encourage you to find one you like and use it to =
decide how=20
to best lay out and cut your hides.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Any questions or =
help needed,=20
I'm just down the road a few miles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>YMOS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Capt. =
Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Kennewick =
WA.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:20:25 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: N.W. Trade Gun Question
- -------------------------------1070263225
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In a message dated 11/30/2003 3:29:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
kodiak@ptd.net writes:
Hello List: Can anyone tell me a site where I might be able to sell my
N.W. Trade Gun....thanks in advance for any help...jim
Jim, Please send me the info offlist; I might be able to help you out; not a
word to She Who Must Be Obeyed ;) Barney
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/30/2003 3:29:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, kodiak@=
ptd.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello List: Can anyone tell me a site where=
I might be able to sell my </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>N.W. Trade Gun....thanks in advance for any=
help...jim</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Jim, Please send m=
e the info offlist; I might be able to help you out; not a word to=
She Who Must Be Obeyed ;) B=
arney</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- -------------------------------1070263225--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:53:14 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
- -------------------------------1070265194
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 11/30/2003 6:10:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Mdrougas@aol.com writes:
I don't want to use a pattern, I think. Or should I?
Mike, I agree with the popular opinion; find a pattern thats comfy or even
better a garment that you already like and needs to be replaced; seems those are
the ones that are the easiest to cut up ;). If you dedide to pick a pattern,
I've noticed that at Rendezvous, traders will many times make up frocks using
known patterns and you can try them on...
In a message dated 11/30/2003 6:10:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cheyenne@pcu.net writes:
<Could you please also clarify the details of trimming with blanket wool. I
think <that was fairly common or at least not unheard of and would certainly
add a <splash of color and style.
Cheyenne, I've got a coat where it was done by cutting diamond shaped
openings in the facing of a leather lapel which exposed the thin red wool that had
been sewn inside.
I got the idea from one of the Buckskinners ref books, but due to CRS can't
tell you which one. I'm sure it was a sketchbook, possibly The Mountain Man's
Sketchbook, and definitely not from the B of B series, but I'll have to try and
find it and let you know.
Although not written in the sketchbook, IIRC this coat was was claimed to
have been Tom Tobins coat, but the last I heard that was in dispute. In any case,
the artifact is part of the Museum Of Anthropology in Albuquerque, New
Mexico, dated circa 1827 or thereabouts.
I could email you a picture if you want...
Barney
- -------------------------------1070265194
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<META charset=3DUTF-8 http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff=
f">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/30/2003 6:10:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mdrouga=
s@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't want to use a pattern, I thin=
k. Or should I? </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>Mike, I agree=
with the popular opinion; find a pattern thats comfy or even bett=
er a garment that you already like and needs to be replaced; seems those are=
the ones that are the easiest to cut up ;). If you dedide to pick a pattern=
, I've noticed that at Rendezvous, traders will many times make up=
frocks using known patterns and you can try them on... </FONT></STRON=
G></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080></FONT></STRONG>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>In a message dated 11/30/2003 6:10:28 PM Pacific Sta=
ndard Time, <A href=3D"mailto:cheyenne@pcu.net">cheyenne@pcu.net</A> wr=
ites:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><Could you please also clarify the details of tri=
mming with blanket wool. I think <that was fairly common or at leas=
t not unheard of and would certainly add a <splash of color and styl=
e.</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Cheyenne, I've got a coat where it was done by cutting dia=
mond shaped openings in the facing of a leather lapel which exposed the=
thin red wool that had been sewn inside.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I got the idea from one of the Buckskinners ref books, but due=20=
to CRS can't tell you which one. I'm sure it was a sketchbook=
, possibly The Mountain Man's Sketchbook, and definitely not from the&n=
bsp;B of B series, but I'll have to try and find it and let y=
ou know.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Although not written in the sketchbook, IIRC this coat was=
was claimed to have been Tom Tobins coat, but the last I heard that wa=
s in dispute. In any case, the artifact is part of the Museum Of A=
nthropology in Albuquerque, New Mexico, dated circa 1827 or thereabouts.</ST=
RONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I could email you a picture if you want...</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Barney</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- -------------------------------1070265194--
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:32:36 -0500
From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Sparks,=20
MIne is so impregnated with grease that I don't really remember if I =
did both sides or not, I am guessing I did though....
D
----- Original Message -----=20
From: James and Sue Stone=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproffing
Thanks, Dennis.
Do I waterproof the inside as well as the outside of the cows knee? =
Just wondering. I ordered a couple pounds of beeswax. I'm sure I'll =
have enough left for the rest of the cow after I finish with the knee! =
;-)=20
Sparks
Double Edge Forge wrote:
try 50/50
D
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "James and Sue Stone" <jandsstone@earthlink.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: waterproffing
=20
Looking to waterproof a cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no=20
silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use?
Sparks
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
=20
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
=20
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sparks, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> MIne is so impregnated with =
grease that I=20
don't really remember if I did both sides or not, I am guessing I did=20
though....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djandsstone@earthlink.net =
href=3D"mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net">James=20
and Sue Stone</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 30, 2003 =
11:42=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List:=20
waterproffing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Thanks, Dennis.<BR>Do I waterproof the inside as well =
as the=20
outside of the cows knee? Just wondering. I ordered a =
couple=20
pounds of beeswax. I'm sure I'll have enough left for the rest =
of the=20
cow after I finish with the knee! <SPAN =
class=3Dmoz-smiley-s3><SPAN>;-)=20
</SPAN></SPAN><BR>Sparks<BR><BR>Double Edge Forge wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid002f01c3b7ba$7de5ad30$6a228fd1@ALASKA =
type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">try 50/50
D
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: "James and Sue Stone" <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:jandsstone@earthlink.net>"><jandsstone@earthlink.net>=
;</A>
To: <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com"><hist_text@lists.xmission=
.com></A>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:22 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: waterproffing
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Looking to waterproof a =
cows knee. I have some pure mink oil (no=20
silicon) and some real beeswax. What proportions of each should I use?
Sparks
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href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm=
ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:52:22 -0600
From: "Monte Holder" <sja028@mail.connect.more.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: wandering in the woods
It has been kind of crazy on the farm here in Missouri, but yesterday I
loaded up the flintlock and took a walk to check some fence. I had been
having some ignition problems, so I put some powder in the pan before I
loaded and pulled the trigger and "poof" it was gone. So I loaded up and
took off. Not long after I got to the boundary fence, I saw one of the
nastiest mangyest coyotes I think I have ever seen. But before I could get
the gun up and cocked, he was heading for some cows up the ravine and I
don't like shooting over the fence onto the neighbors anyway so I watched
him go and went back to walking. about a 1/4 mile (actually less straight
line, but it is pretty up and down there) I drop into another drainage and
there he is on my side of the fence maybe 20yds out. I pull the cock back
as I bring it up settle the sights and "CLACK" nothing. HE keeps looking as
I pull it back and CLACK again. Damn I says as he takes off up the hill.
ANyway I get teh rest of the fence checked and head up the lane to home when
I hear a bunch of turkeys scratching around the corner. I get about 20yds
from them and they notice me, but I'm figuring the gun won't go off anyway
and they aren't legal at the moment so I let them go by. I get home and go
to the range in the back yard, draw down on the piece of cardboard and
"BANG" that sucker goes off slicker than a whistle and I even hit where I
was aiming! I loaded it up again and "BANG" off it goes.
I guess it just wasn't that coyotes day, or maybe it was. I'm sure glad I
didn't try to shoot at those turkeys, I'd've either been mad because it
didn't go off or I wouldn't be able to tell you about them anyway.
Monte Holder
Sunny Saline County MO
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:43:18 +0000
From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
Mike,
Before cutting up good brain tan using a new pattern I often will make a
test garment out of cheap muslin of light canvas. you can see where you need
to tweak the pattern or where problem areas might come up.
SMB
>From: Mdrougas@aol.com
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@xmission.com
>CC: Mdrougas@aol.com
>Subject: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
>Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:09:16 EST
>
>To the list,
> I wrote in about a year age for help on some brain tan pantaloons I
>was going to make. Your advise worked out great. there very comfortable and
>warm. Thanks much.
> My next project is a brain tan frock. I've seen many, I check out
>Crazy's site alot and saw the picture of his. I get the tomahawk and long
>rifle
>mag , on the trail and muzzleloader. saw plenty in there. What advise can
>you
>give? I thinking of a no frills type. pretty basic. I don't want to use a
>pattern, I think. Or should I? How would you start if not using a pattern?
> Thanks in advance and thanks again for the help with the
>pantaloons.
>My wife really likes these rather than my old "diaper bottom" trousers:).
> Michael (Mike) J. Drougas
> Yakima County, Wa.
_________________________________________________________________
Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment,
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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:44:08 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frock coat?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Wynn,
I used two brain tanned elk hides for the body of the coat which is =
fairly long and about a size 50 give or take a size. It took two brain =
tanned deer hides for the sleeves, one each. I added some cuffs that =
fold back a good three inches and that collar that is close to three =
inches high if opened up. All the edges that were not fringed (about 3 =
inches or less of fringe btw) I trimmed using "Blanket Edging" from =
Pendleton. It's what they trim their blankets with, is felted wool and =
maybe a bit more than an inch wide. Comes in a number of colors if you =
can get it anymore. I had green so used green.=20
I sewed it on the face of the coat then turned it over to the back side =
of the coat and top stitched it down so the face looks "closed" and the =
edge of the coat looks "wrapped".=20
Using similar material such as heavy shirt weight material in a strip as =
a welt in seams between pieces of leather looks nice too. Military coats =
of the times were treated this way in some instances. If you see "Master =
and Commander" now playing you will see this done on some of the =
"jackets" worn by senior enlisted and perhaps some of the officers. Look =
for a dark Navy Blue jacket with white piping in the seams.=20
Perhaps it is my skill as a seamstress/tailor or lack thereof but I was =
amazed at how many hides it takes to make a garment. More than you =
think. And if the garment is at all complicated with multi pieces then =
it takes more as you need to fit those pieces into the space of a hide. =
You may only get one piece out of a deer sized hide with plenty of =
scraps from around the edges. So that's why I plan on one hide for the =
front, one for the back and one for each sleeve.
You can get a small jacket out of smaller hides if your body will accept =
the small fitted and sized jacket styles. Mine won't. <G>
And your advice to cut up an old garment to use as a pattern is =
excellent advice and almost mandatory if success is desired. Whether you =
use wool, commercial leather or brain tan use a pattern even if it is =
cheap muslin sewn in a try and fit manner.
Capt. Lahti'
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Wynn,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>I used two brain =
tanned elk hides=20
for the body of the coat which is fairly long and about a size 50 give =
or take a=20
size. It took two brain tanned deer hides for the sleeves, one each. I =
added=20
some cuffs that fold back a good three inches and that collar that is =
close to=20
three inches high if opened up. All the edges that were not fringed =
(about 3=20
inches or less of fringe btw) I trimmed using "Blanket Edging" from =
Pendleton.=20
It's what they trim their blankets with, is felted wool and maybe a bit =
more=20
than an inch wide. Comes in a number of colors if you can get it =
anymore. I had=20
green so used green. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>I sewed it on the face =
of the coat=20
then turned it over to the back side of the coat and top stitched it =
down so the=20
face looks "closed" and the edge of the coat looks "wrapped". =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Using similar material =
such as=20
heavy shirt weight material in a strip as a welt in seams between pieces =
of=20
leather looks nice too. Military coats of the times were treated this =
way in=20
some instances. If you see "Master and Commander" now playing you will =
see this=20
done on some of the "jackets" worn by senior enlisted and perhaps some =
of the=20
officers. Look for a dark Navy Blue jacket with white piping in the =
seams.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Perhaps it is my skill =
as a=20
seamstress/tailor or lack thereof but I was amazed at how many hides it =
takes to=20
make a garment. More than you think. And if the garment is at all =
complicated=20
with multi pieces then it takes more as you need to fit those pieces =
into the=20
space of a hide. You may only get one piece out of a deer sized hide =
with plenty=20
of scraps from around the edges. So that's why I plan on one hide for =
the front,=20
one for the back and one for each sleeve.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>You can get a small =
jacket out of=20
smaller hides if your body will accept the small fitted and sized jacket =
styles.=20
Mine won't. <G></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>And your advice to cut =
up an old=20
garment to use as a pattern is excellent advice and almost mandatory if =
success=20
is desired. Whether you use wool, commercial leather or brain tan use a =
pattern=20
even if it is cheap muslin sewn in a try and fit manner.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" size=3D2>Capt. =
Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Microsoft Sans Serif" =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:58:46 -0500
From: Fred Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Firearms definitions defined
Want to translate what an ad REALLY means? Here are the definitions!
"Minty" - the previous owner thought that Scope
mouthwash was the perfect bore cleaner.
"Patina" - a red dust-like substance that forms on
ferrous metals in the presence of oxygen.
"NIB" - ( New In Box ) translation: "this weapon was
the 'hangar queen' of the gun shop, thank God we kept the
box". The only one who might want this one is a
hitman because it sure has thousands of fingerprints on it.
"Stock has the usual dings" - yeah, and face of the
moon has the usual dings too.
"Low serial number" - if you advertised a car with
this as the mileage and referred to it as "low" the authorities
would be after you.
"85% bluing remains" - translation: "Only 15% of
this rifle is not covered with wood so what I can't see I figure is
okay".
"Must be seen to be believed" -This rifle makes a
bubba job look good
"Rifling is pronounced" - pronounced DOA.
"Some pitting" - Chubby boy Micheal Moore's face has
less pitting after a 40 year diet of pizza and Ho-ho's
"All matching" - translation: "I've been up nights
with the electro-pencil"
"Not import marked" - Support firearms smuggling.
"Should clean up fine" - translation: "I have no
idea what's under all this crud. I could be selling you a gun-shaped
lump of dirt for all I know."
"All original" - original if the Japanese during
WWII mounted weaver scopes and left the mounting holes, that is.
"Bore shows some frosting" - Betty Crocker doesn't
have this much frosting.
"All correct" - yup, it's got a trigger and a stock
and a barrel and sights, yeah, it's all there.
"NRA Good" - Handgun Control Inc. bad.
"Rare" - nobody wanted these when they were first
offered as surplus either so most of them are now Miatas.
"Unusual" - this firearm euphemism is the equivalent
of a girl saying her girlfriend, who she wants you to date, has
a good personality".
"The wood has a warm hue" - because it was in a
fire.
"Custom" - translation: "I took a perfectly good
rifle that a collector would give his left cajone for, threw away the
stock with the great cartouches on it, tore off the
sights with vice grips, replaced them with a scope I got at Kmart,
sanded off bluing that had lasted twice as long as I
will and slapped on some cold blue that looks like toilet bowl
water. All this cost me three times what a
comparable new rifle would but I've got the satisfaction of knowing that
I 'made something'".
"Very clean" - translation: "not a speck of oil has
touched this gun since I've owned it".
"Re-arsenaled" - if this was a car, the word would
be "recalled".
"Supplies of these are getting low" - translation:
"We are buried in these pigs. If I don't get rid of them the boss is
going to fire me for buying them in the first place.
Never negotiate a deal in Eastern Europe when they are
supplying the vodka".
"Ammunition for these is plentiful and cheap" - not
to mention old and dangerous.
"Great for plinking" - these things couldn't hit the
broad side of a barn from the inside. Why do you think they lost
the war?
"Locks up solid" - this gun is rusted shut.
"War Trophy" - translation: "My grandfather spent
the entire war guarding a pier in the U.S. and confiscated this
off a returning soldier who was actually in
combat".
"Still in cosmoline" - translation: "Cosmoline hides
a plethora of things that I'd rather not tell you about".
"One of a kind" - translation: "I bubba'd this".
"European craftsmanship" - built just like a Yugo.
"Original markings" - someone carved their initials
in the stock.
"Bore is shiny" - none of that nasty rifling remains
to spoil the smoothness of this bore.
"Stock has been lightly sanded" - apparently
"lightly" is redundant when used with "sanded" in the world of
firearms auctions. You never see the term "sanded"
without "lightly" preceding it. You'd never guess that anybody
involved in firearms simply "sanded" or, God forbid,
"sanded well".
"I'm not an expert on these" - translation: "Now
that I've made this disclaimer, I'm free to tell you whatever wild
baloney I think will get you to buy this. If you
find out it's not true well hey, I told you I was no expert".
"Hairline crack, might be repairable" - by this
description it has a equal chance of not being repairable.
"I don't have any pictures" - translation: "If you
are stupid enough to buy a firearm without even seeing pictures
of it, check out my auction of magic beans".
"Arsenal Wrapped" - If you are the kind of person
who buys cans in the supermarket without labels on them, this
baby's for you!
"Sporter" - translation: "I REALLY bubba'd this
one".
"Arsenal New" - the arsenal where these were made
closed 99 years ago. This must be some kind of Bill
Clintonesque definition of "new".
"Unissued" - even the soldiers of the third-world
country they came from refused to carry them.
"Laminated stock" - the ex-Eastern bloc factory that
was making these burnt all the real stocks to keep from
freezing so these were made out of pressed floor
sweepings and rat droppings. Don't fire this one if the stock's
ever gotten wet.
"A good shooter" - these come personally recommended
by BOTH, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder for their
accuracy.
"Vintage" - so much rust that the date is obscured.
"With accessories" - translation: "The exporter told
us if we wanted the deal on the rifles we had to take all this
other crap off his hands".
"Collectable" - what's being offered has the same
intrinsic value as Elvis memorabilia from the Franklin Mint.
"Ammunition will soon be available" - buy this if
you want a wall hanger.
"Don't let this one get away!" - translation:
"Please, please buy this, they're gonna break my thumbs".
"An early example" - it took them a while to get
this model right. This one was made before that.
"I've never seen another one like this" -
translation: "Someone bubba'd it before I got it".
"California Legal" - this is not a weapon. It has
been rendered so it doesn't even look threatening. It is no more
lethal than Michael Moore's underwear. Okay, so his
underwear is lethal. Alright, it's a WMD.
"Pride of the French Officers Corps" - this is why
people with no historical background should not be in the milsurp
business.
"Tanker model" - this rifle was bubba'd by someone
cutting several inches off the front of it.
"Rare wire wrapped version" - the stock is being
held together by wire.
"NAZI markings intact" - the previous owner of this
weapon was a skinhead living in a trailer in Idaho who carved
sayings peculiar to his philosophy in the stock.
"Russian Mummy Wrap" - last time I checked, Russia
didn't have any pyramids. This seller is obviously trying to say
that the weapon is held together by Soviet-era duct
tape.
"Minor scratches" - translation: "Zeigfried's
partner, Roy, has less scratches on him".
"Has a strong action" - translation: "You'll need a
couple of friends to get the bolt on this rust bucket open".
"One's in this condition are hard to find" - yeah,
most of them in this condition went to the scrap heap.
"Standard three day inspection period" -
translation: "We ship only on Fridays at the close of business before the
start of three day weekends. Our couriers have
special instructions to hide your purchase in your FFL's bushes
when they deliver".
"Double heat treated" - this was also in a fire,
twice.
"Nicely refinished" - the previous owner slapped on
whatever left over wood finishes he had lying around. The
gloss on this stock would do a bowling alley proud.
"A nice example" - this looks like what people mean
when they say "We're gonna make an example out of him".
- or what people mean at a funeral when they say
"Dosen't he look good".
"Difficult to find" - we used this one to prop open
a window at the shop and forgot about it.
"Free floating barrel" - the screws that hold the
barrel in are missing.
"Only 200 rounds fired throught it" - of only one
brand of ammo. the other 30,000 was from various other brands
of ammo.
- --
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the Ugly)."
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