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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1196 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, May 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1196 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Shot Guns -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Yellowstone Kill -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping -áááááá MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping & Dr. Lahti -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping & Dr. Lahti -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:42:42 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shot Guns - --part1_28.37e36529.2bed96f2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/2003 11:13:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MPunke@mayerbrownrowe.com writes: > And what would have been the equivalent of a 10 gauge? They were described by the caliber, and IIRC a 10 guage is .775. Barney - --part1_28.37e36529.2bed96f2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML>In a message dated 5/9/2003= 11:13:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MPunke@mayerbrownrowe.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And what would have been the eq= uivalent of a 10 gauge? </BLOCKQUOTE> They were described by the caliber, and IIRC a 10 guage is .775. Barney </HTML> - --part1_28.37e36529.2bed96f2_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 17:47:23 -0700 From: "Bear Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yellowstone Kill . Their can't be much left of a guy after a pack of wolves eats you. bb So true, if the way my dog, which is a red dingo, eats bones, I could say for sure that there wouldn't be anything left. "Two Bears" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:02:44 -0600 (MDT) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping Don't blacksmiths use wax in the finishing of their work? Isn't that how some of the blackness gets into the steel? It seems to keep the steel from rusting too readily. Sean,I would never suggest primitive trapping methods to a beginner trapper. I'm pretty sure Monte is new to this. He should first master the use of drowner sliders which is almost fail proof. I've seen several trappers, including myself, lose trap and beaver to the depths because of bitten through rope. Maybe everyone has to experience the rotten feeling of finding a bitten off rope where your trap was to know what I mean. Is using a piece of wire so bad? They had wire way back then, didn't they? All that is needed is a proper size foothold trap, a 10-12' length of 12 ga wire, a one-way slider and a burlap sack to be filled with 30 lbs of rocks. Voila! A drowner set! I've said it before and will stand by it. Unless your a very experienced trapper and know primitive methods very well most should use modern methods when trapping animals such as wire, sliders, etc to ensure a swift human death to the animal we trap. It's the least we can do for them in return for their lives and hides. bb > Monte, > To my knowledge traps were not waxed. At least I've never seen a refrence > for it, lets say that. Today we can dye them in logwood dye or sumac dye. > Was it feasible then for a man in the mountians to have a big pot to boil > his traps in?? My bet would be no. From experience I know all traps will > rust, in the water or not. I would suspect that traps were allowed to rust > much the same as a gun barrel would brown providing a natural protective > coating over time and use that way. > > Those little sliders on a cable or wire are a modern item. While effective > I've never seen refrence to a "drowning wire" or the like. I use a stiff > chunk of manila rope secured close to the trap with a bag full of > rocks/gravel also tied close. Most (note I say most) of the time if you > select a slick/smooth spot on the bank with a quick drop off this will > provide a quick "drown" Note also, beaver and other animals in a trap > under > water do not drown, they pass out from holding their breath actually. > Don't > believe me? Open one up next time. > > Hello to the list > Sean in MT > > > > > > > >>From:% - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:26:35 -0600 (MDT) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping & Dr. Lahti Captain, or should I call you Doctor? Man! Now I'm going to be thinking of your thesis everytime I pull a dead critter from the deep water! You are correct though Doctor. The beaver I pull from the depth's all have a little blood coming out of their mouths. This clearly shows something serious is happening to their innards. Drownings are nothing new to beaver. Many of them drown every year under the ice and surely some young must drown during the spring floods. I always find a few dead ones each spring when the ice goes off. Perhaps some are dead from sickness but sickness is usually associated with over population. They are not over populated on my trapline. They are thinned out yearly and healthy. bb > An oversimplification. People hold their breath too when they drown. At > some > point unconciousness takes hold, some water will be aspirated, but it > really > only complicates the situation in people by causing an imbalance in the > fluid makeup of the blood, too much salt in saltwater drownings, too much > water in the blood in freshwater drownings. These imbalances cause other > physiological problems within the bodies normal balance. > > As little as 22 ml/kg of body weight aspirated into the lungs will cause > the additional physiological burdens beyond the basic problem of no oxygen > exchange. It might be hard to detect any significant amount of water in > the > lungs of an animal drowning. With people, very little water is aspirated > and > that depends on the stage of drowning they are in and how they drown. > > "Aspiration of fluid as little as 2.2 ml/kg body weight produces decrease > in > paO2 to approximately 60 mm of Hg within 3 minutes. This is because the > water in the alveoli, alters the pulmonary sur-factant and thus increases > the pulmonary shunt via either fluid filled (salt water drowning) or > atel-ectatic (fresh water drowning) alveoli. Pearn 2 re-ported that the > aspiration of fluid as little as 2.5 ml/kg body weight increased the > intrapulmonary shunt as much as 75%. Even victims who are ap-parently > normal > may show some abnormal blood gas report and take several days to reach > pre-drowning values. Delayed outpouring of fluid into the alveoli may > occur > due to pulmonary parenchym - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 09:24:42 -0700 From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/cgi-bin/uncgi-bin/site_search.html bb, et.al., Go to the above link. Several mentions of wire both iron and brass in various quantities listed with other goods going west or mentioned in journals. Not any mention of whether it was used as a trap wire. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 09:28:05 -0700 From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping & Dr. Lahti Nope, just Capt' will do if you care to. I just question pronouncements that done ring true to my limited knowledge and experience, 25 years on a fire dept. with some exposure to medicine thrown in via EMT training and having to live with Paramedics and etc. ER rooms etc. Not that I haven't found myself making pronouncements that later proved chewy. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 07:54:25 -0500 From: "Monte Holder" <sja028@mail.connect.more.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: modern vs historic trapping Just so everybody knows, I wasnt' really interested in trying "primitive methods" right off. I was just reading up on how one is supposed to do things and got to wondering about the wax and sliders and all that. Monte Holder Saline Co MO > Sean,I would never suggest primitive trapping methods to a beginner > trapper. I'm pretty sure Monte is new to this. He should first master > the use of drowner sliders which is almost fail proof. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1196 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.