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hist_text-digest         Friday, July 31 1998         Volume 01 : Number 114




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:49:42 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Roy Parker)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

On Wed, 30 Jul 2098 17:14:13 -0700, you wrote:

>MedicineBear:
>    I have not gone to my first voo yet and am a bit apprehensive that I
>will be out of date, style, etc. Can I bring my commercial tanned bag, =
even
>if I don't have a gun yet? I have canvas, high waisted pants (Wah made)
>etc..
>    I did go out and buy all the "Book of Buckskinning" and have found =
them
>to be very good to keep up with the "pros" on this list and what they =
are
>talking about.
>    I plan on going to a voo in Idaho in September, will probably stay =
at
>the modern camp (or God forbid a motel) as I do not have camping gear.
>    Gail Carbiener
>(Doing living history of HBC trapper)
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 1:09 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit
>
>
>>Hello the camp!
>>
>>On the subject of "starting out", I have often wished that some =
experienced
>>enterprising skinner would put together a web page with pictures =
showing
>their
>>"historically correct" possibles.  Not every imaginable item but just =
the
>>basics needed to make a respectable outfit.  Heck, others could post to
>this
>>site as they get pictures of their stuff.  There's nothing like showing=
 up
>to a
>>voo in your new outfit, full of expectations of a good time only to =
have
>those
>>with "well worn skins" look down their noses at you or worse, whisper =
and
>>point!  Sure does take the fun out of a weekend.  It's really hard
>sometimes to
>>imagine what a particular piece of gear or clothing looks like.  I live
>where
>>there is virtually no one to look to for help and the books I have =
don't
>have
>>the best pictures.  I imagine there are many greenhorns in the same =
fix.
>>Just a thought...

I wrote up just such a message for this years Southwestern Rendezvous.
I haven't checked it out since late February, but assume it is still
there since the 1999 booshway (poor sod) was gonna use it as an
example of the basics.  Check out Ron Obenhause's page for general
beginner info, plus how to get to the 1999 SW (and we don't Need More
Looney Rules!) at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus .

If this doesn't cover the basics for ya, give me a holler via email.


Roy Parker, Booshway, 1998 SW Regional Rendezvous, [e-mail]
=46ull SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus
Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including "BS".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:02:01 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: My reason for being on this list

Gail,

Welcome to the list.  Hope you have fun.  Here's a different view of=
 Bridger.

Jim Bridger was primarily judged a liar by an insignificant and long
forgotten,
snot-nosed, wet behind the ears, arrogant snob, of a cub newspaper reporter
and
his ignorant editor who decided the old man's stories were too incredible to
believe, so most of what he learned from a old blind man; who made more
history
than most 10,000's of others, was ignored and never printed.=A0 Bridger told
enough truth that his services were eagerly sought by the army well into his
60's,=A0=20

Spinning a good yarn is a skill few possess yet today.=A0 The skill says=
 nothing
about the veracity of the individual.

Travelers to the west valued his counsel and advice and traded at his fort=
 to
seek such.=A0 General Dodge felt he was one of the most honorable and=
 important
figures of westward expansion; and after Gabe's death erected a fitting 6'
carved (with full relief bust) granite monument on Jim's grave at personal
expense.=A0=20

Primary reason the Mormons burned his fort down was so they could control=
 the
western emigrant trade, folks stopped and bought supplies from him because=
 the
stories were better and his knowledge and information invaluable.=A0 He must
have
done something right.  Brigham wanted his business.

He didn't kill off nearly all his men and animals crossing the desert to
California and back at no profit, and never managed to get himself and his
entire party cornered and killed by hostiles.=A0=20

Growing real old in Missouri suggests someone who learned, from the one
admitted disgrace in his life.=A0 I think the best were the ones who died=
 old in
bed.=A0 Only Astor died rich.=A0=20

Geysers still erupt, the petrified forest is still there, and the part about
petrified birds singing petrified songs only made the story more enjoyable.=
=A0
What else could he say about a place where the trees are of a stone which
throws pretty good sparks: but, there ain't much shade.=A0 South Pass is=
 still a
significant crossing.=A0 There's a lot more. =20

If he'd been lying we might still be going around the mountain, or as one
early
writer/explorer of Pike's Peak (name forgot) put it: "transmountaine
peregrinations."

John...




At 09:20 AM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>List Mates,
...

>
>At one point I became interested in Jim Bridger, but he was such a liar
>(teller of tall tales), who knows what is true?
>
>Gail Martini-Peterson
>[e-mail]
>

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:50:53 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

Susan,

Welcome to the list.  Hope you have fun.

Most rendezvous are held where there are no city lights.  Some are held on
high
plateaus above 11,000 ft. like Elizabeth Ridge, Utah.  The night sky's are
amazing and prime for viewing.  At Hickerson Park, Utah one year we were
treated to a glorious display of the Northern Lights.

There are available incredibly beautiful telescopes, sextants and such of=
 the
period which could fuel his interest.  I doubt anyone would much complain at
any of the public rendezvous if he drug out a gigantic modern reflective at
night. =20

Calculating longitude and latitude with compass, clock and sextant and=
 working
with old star charts, might feed his need for logical deduction required on
the
computer.

Or he might find something else, a brand new interest; straight from the
past.=20
There is much more to this than camping and shooting while dressed up in=
 funny
old clothes, and living without modern conveniences by choice.

Unaccompanied Women are certainly welcome at rendezvous and safer in every
regard than nearly anywhere else on earth.  As with all life there are
always a
few bad apples, they maintain a very low profile in camps filled with
honorable, well armed, men and women.  I have never been in a camp where a
woman alone was at any kind of risk; not of her own choosing.

John...
 =20


At 03:45 PM 7/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Hello the camp.
>
> I have been lurking for a bit now and tried once earlier to make
>my presence known, without much success(posting problems).=20
> My name is Susan Gilbert, aka She Has Old Hands.=A0 I've been
>interested in and researching women in colonial and frontier America for
>about 8 years.=A0 I do presentations for the local schools on the daily
>lives of 2 of my ancestors, Annie Night-born, a Cherokee mid-wife and yarb
>woman and Matilda McFarland Clayton, wife of a trapper and cartographer
>named John Wesley Clayton.=A0 My presentations are done in character as
>either one of these women and I have learned many of the "goodwife" skills
>necessary to run a house and feed and cloth a family in the period they
>lived. I never thought of my presentations as "Living History" until
>someone who saw me used the term to describe what I do.=20
> 2 years ago I stumbled across a Voo at Ushers Ferry, in Iowa, and
>was completely captivated.=A0 I would love to get involved but I have an
>unusual problem.=20
> I'm a married woman who's husband is only mildly interested in
>this area.=A0 Brian is very supportive of my interest and has allowed me to
>drag him all over our area in search of gear and people to interview, but
>feels there is no place for him. He is not interested in firearms,
>trapping, or any of the other things that occupy you menfolk, other than
>as a spectator.=A0 He is a videographer, photographer, astronomer and Alpha
>computer geek.
> So how does a woman involve an only marginally interested husband
>in the lifestyle?=A0 You who had to coax a hesitant wife might be able to
>give me some hints, I hope.
> I have enjoyed this group very much and hope to be much more
>involved now that I mustered my courage and finally said hello.
>
>Thank you for your attention and any help you can offer.
>
>Your humble servant,
>She Has Old Hands
>
>Susan Gilbert
>[e-mail]=20
>=20
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:24:35 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Introduction and request for help

To She Who Has Old Hands - It would seem that your husband already has two
skills (at least) that could be used well in this wonderful hobby of
'buckskinning'.  Both photography and astronomy have applications in the
'period'.  Astromony could be applied to navigation, charting, mapping, etc.
I have met an amateur astromomer who did some research and came up with
'period' surveying equipment and gives one of the most interesting living
history demonstrations that I've seen yet. The "touristas" that come through
camp are completely fascinated.  The possibilities with a primitive camera
coupled with the necessary knowledge are just about endless.

Many participants in rendezvous do not shoot, hunt, trap, make bows or fire,
but are actively involved in enjoying the comraderie, learning and being able
to share their skills with others.     Hope this gives you, and your hubby
some insight.   PJ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:09:19 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leggings into pants

I use a legging/knee britches combination.  I find it to be very
utilitarian.  When in a canoe I go bare legged, for wading and general
comfort.  But, when I need to walk inland I slip on the leggings for shin
protection.  Save those nice leggings , as is.  On a good hot day I'll
wear a breech cloth, but being fair skinned I have to be careful of the
sun.     Hardtack

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:49:25 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth

always remember

you can wear the loincloth without the legging but you can't wear the leggins
without the loincloth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:08:44 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercial leather clothes

Dear Joe

I have some of those white hides that I bought to make a coat out of.  What is
a good way to dye them to make them look more natural? any brand, color
preferences
Thanks
John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:14:18 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercial leather clothes

You can smoke them as readily as any other hide, look right, smell right, be
sharp.

John...



At 12:08 AM 7/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Joe
>
>I have some of those white hides that I bought to make a coat out of.=A0
What is
>a good way to dye them to make them look more natural? any brand, color
>preferences
>Thanks
>John
>=20
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:56:28 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leggings into pants

You might also consider a pair of knee breeches and just using the leggin's
along with them.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:47:42 +0000
From: [e-mail] (RANDAL J BUBLITZ)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth

You don't need a loin cloth with leggings!  That's why those Eastern
shirts are so long..... Hardtack

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:32:49 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Warped barrel.....oh brother

jD CONTACT ME OFFLINE AND i WILL GIVE YOU MORE INFO ABOUT YOUR PISTOL
BARREL AND HOW TO CHECK IT USING THE STRING BOW METHOD  OR BEST GIVE ME A
PHONE CALL--whose barrel is the pistol and what is it's dia-is it octogen
or round or what--before you get your feathers in a up roar---mike the
barrel wall thickness at 3 points at least on the  front and rear they
should be within .015 watch that you mike in the bottoms of the lands of
the rifleing---acording to my math calculations to  have a 12" pistol
barrel shoot 30 in off at 25 yards there has to be a .040 difference from
end to end.  check to make sure that the barrel isnt drilled off center
at the back before getting to worry about the warp--- on a 8 in barrel an
error of .027 will cause it to shoot that mutch off---so you can see a
little warp on a pistol barrel makes a big difference---I am only talking
about being drilled and rifled off center above and not warpage
alone---warpage is a different matter and will need to talk to you to
explain how to check it out---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:21:57 -0500 [e-mail] writes:
>You know....I have been wondering why that darn pistol shoots so dang
>high.  I have no problem with the side to side but at 25 yards it is
>about 2.5 feet high...no sights yet.  I figured that when I put a
>front
>blade on it would come down to where it should be.
>Now I hear I may have warped the little bugger?  I really didn't think
>I
>got it that hot.  The striker was left on the burner and got orange
>hot.  The barrel did not.
>I hope the barrel is not warped.  Is there any way I can tell?
>I like the looks of my browning job.  Will consider the cold method
>next
>time.
>
>Thanks to all who gave advise on the soft striker.
>I did quench it in water that first time.  It is not brittle...seems
>soft.
>What does it mean to "draw" it?
>I look forward to hearing from Iron Tongue and any others.
>Again....
>Thanks for your help
>J.D. Stoddard
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Northwest Company

Hallo the List

I am looking for one or two good books on the history of the
Montreal based Northwest Company, which operated in the Canadian/US
Northwest territories from the about 1784 until it merged with the HBC in
1831.

I have found volumes and volumes on HBC, the Astorians, etc., but little
on the NWC.  I am particurlary interested in something (a journal maybe?)
that details the day to day operations of Spokan House or Kullyspel House
in the 1810 period to include listings of goods and prices.

Since I have subscribed to the Northwest Journal, (excellent material
incidently....) I have gotten a better idea, but haven't really gotten a
good feel for the day to day administration of the posts, or the extent of
the NWC.

Incidently, if your interested in the Northwest Journal, they have a
webpage at; http://www.agt.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html

Regards

Lee Newbill
Viola, Idaho
email at [e-mail]
Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:52:16 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Warped barrel.....oh brother

In a message dated 98-07-30 17:24:57 EDT, you write:

<< I hope the barrel is not warped.  Is there any way I can tell?

"Eyeball" the corners of all the flats -- by this I mean hold the barrel up
about level & "sight" along each corner of the flat sides of the barrel --
assuming it's the normal octagonal outside shape.  Each corner should be a
straight line.  If it's warped, there'll be a slight bow to at least 4 of
these 8 lines -- usualy oposite each other.  IF you have access to precision
measuring devices like dial indicators, precision straight edges & such, then
it's a simple mater to measure exactly how much it's warped, but these
precision "toys" aren't cheap, nor does the normal home worhshop have access
to them.  If there's a machine shop in your area, they can tell you how much
warpage or "run out" is in the barrel.  You didn't say if you rotated the
barrel while you were heating it.  IF you were careful in trying to keep the
heat even over the entire barrel, then warpage should be minimal, BUT if you
heated one part to the color then turned, there is a good chance there is some
warpage.

 < I did quench it in water that first time.  It is not brittle...seems
 soft.

Was it still "glowing" when you quinched it?  If you let it cool until it
looked black, then you only cooled it.  For a hardning quinch, it must be
glowing -- preferably "dull" to "cherry" red when it enters the quinching
medium.  It'll also help to warm the water & disolve as much salt in it as
possible.  The salt will raise the boiling point of the water & warming it
will minimumize the thermal shock to the steel which will minimumize cracking
& warpage -- usualy warpage in a fire steel isn't a real concern, but for
knives it IS.  It's been suggested you use a light oil instead of water --
excelent advice!  There are numerous aloys or different mixtures in today's
steels & unless you know exactly which one you're dealing with, using oil for
the quinching medium is best.  IF you're absolutely sure you're dealing with
1095 or W-1 steel, then a water quinch is ok, but even with these steels, oil
works best.  At this stage your fire steel should be at it's full hardness.
Keep in mind when quinching in oil, it's normal to get some flame on the
surface of the oil as the red hot steel makes contact -- of course, you'll be
using pliers or tongs or visegrips to hold the hot steel -- fingers just don't
like steel at this temp.  About any combustable red hot steel comes in contact
with will smoke or flame, so be careful!!!

< What does it mean to "draw" it?

To "draw" a temper means remove or "pull out" some of the hardness imparted to
the steel by the quick cooling from a glowing red heat (about 1500 degrees) to
what ever temp your quinch medium is.  This rapid cooling "slams" the
molecules of the steel together into their most compact form.  Just how
"compact" depends on several things -- alloying elements & carbon content are
most influential.  It also creates all kinds of stresses inside the steel.  By
"drawing" a temper, you remove some of the stress & allow the molecules to
move a bit farther away from each other.  You've read about the different
"colors" in the various posts -- yellow, straw, blue, brown, & etc.  These
colors are caused by heat oxidation on the surface of cleanly sanded or
"bright" or "white" steel.  The darker the color, the softer, more flexable
the steel will become.  A bright blue is what you're looking for if you want
spring steel (along with the proper alloy &/or carbon content like 5160 or
1095), but for a fire steel, this is too soft to spark reliably.  For a fire
steel, you're looking for yellow to straw color -- in terms of degrees
Farenheit, that's about 350  for "yellow", & 400 for "straw" -- it'll vary a
bit with different alloys.  The brown you pulled the barrel to comes in at
about 450, & the bright blue I mentioned is about 550.  "Drawing" to a color
isn't easy the first time if you're doing it with flame -- it's realy easy to
go too far & wind up too soft again.  Something you might try (if your wife
doesn't mind) is putting it in the oven & "baking" it.  Set the oven at 300 &
bake about 1 hr -- you can then either alow to air cool or cool in water or
oil.  Try it -- if it sparks good, leave it right there -- if not, turn the
oven up to 350 & bake again & try it after it cools.  If you still don't like
the results, bake it again at 400 -- remember, you can always reheat it to the
glowing red, quinch & start over but it'd be best of you took it up to a red
heat & burry it in a pile of ashes or lime and let it slow cool overnight
before trying another hardning & tempering cycle -- this is called "anealing"
& it releaves all the stresses & allows the steel to "relax" -- it'll be at
it's softest configuration in this state.  As someone stated -- hardning &
tempering is an exact science today.  Commercialy, it's done in ovens or with
magnetic fields (induction hardning) & depending on the desired hardness /
toughness combination, manufacturers know exactly what aloy to use, how hot to
heat, how long to hold at that heat & whether or not to super cool in liquid
nitrogen (used in quinching stainless steels like 440C for optimum hardness).
I realize some of the alloy numbers I've used in this explination may not mean
much to everyone, but to some they will.  Basicaly, the most popular steel for
our time frame is the 1095 steel which is refined iron & carbon only -- carbon
content .95%.  1000 series steels designate the carbon content in the last 2
digits, so 1050 would have .50% -- under .40% carbon will not harden enough to
be of any advantage other than added toughness & better wear or abrasion
resistance over, say, 1010.  When "recycling" scrap steels, we sometimes run
into some of the alloys.  For example files are usualy W-2, saw blades are
L-6, leaf springs are 5160, Jackhammer bits are S-5, clock springs are 1095.
All of these steels will work for a fire steel if you want to start from
scratch, but from my experience, 5160 only needs to be hardened -- any
tempering or drawing back seems to soften it too much to spark reliably.  Even
at full hard, 5160 alloying properties impart such a toughness to it, breakage
is unlikely when used as a firesteel, but then too, it's not one of the best
sparking fire steels either.  Though I haven't tried S-5, I would expect it to
behave simularly to 5160 when used for a fire steel.

 Someone also mentioned getting a book called "The Complete Bladesmith" ---
excelent book.  That same author also has another book called "The Advanced
Blanesmith" -- also excelent.  If you're intrested in "pattern welded" or
Damascus" blades,  author Jim Hrisoulas is one of the best in this field.  The
Astragal Press has recently reprinted M.T. Ritchardson's classic "blacksmith's
bible" called "Practical Blacksmithing" origionaly published in 1897 - 98.
Origionaly it was published in 4 volumes, but this printing has it combined in
2 paper back volumes @ $24.95 each -- an earlier printing had it in 1 hard
bound volume, but that publishing date was in the mid 1960's if memory serves
& is hard to find now. The Astragal Press has a lot of books dealing with
period tools & methods of construction used in the 1700' s & 1800's --
unfortunately they don't have a web site, but "snail" address is:

The Astragal Press
5 Cold hill Road, Suit 12
P.O. Box 239
Mendham, NJ 07945-0239

< I look forward to hearing from Iron Tongue and any others.
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:41:02 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwest Company

Lee,

I can't help on your request but it brought to mind an interesting aside.

I was once told by a feller, that I think knew, The HBC and The Northwest
Companies were originally both founded by French.

Then again maybe I did see something in a book I think was called "River of
Blood."  It was a long time ago, can't be sure, the book was in a library=
 now
dispersed.

John...

At 12:45 AM 7/31/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hallo the List
>
>I am looking for one or two good books on the history of the
>Montreal based Northwest Company, which operated in the Canadian/US
>Northwest territories from the about 1784 until it merged with the HBC in
>1831.
>
>I have found volumes and volumes on HBC, the Astorians, etc., but little
>on the NWC.=A0 I am particurlary interested in something (a journal maybe?)
>that details the day to day operations of Spokan House or Kullyspel House
>in the 1810 period to include listings of goods and prices.
>
>Since I have subscribed to the Northwest Journal, (excellent material
>incidently....) I have gotten a better idea, but haven't really gotten a
>good feel for the day to day administration of the posts, or the extent of
>the NWC.
>
>Incidently, if your interested in the Northwest Journal, they have a
>webpage at;
<http://www.agt.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html>http://www.agt.net/public/gottf
red/nwj.html
>
>Regards
>
>Lee Newbill
>Viola, Idaho
>email at [e-mail]
>Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
><http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186>http://www.geocities.com/Yos
emite/Gorge/7186
>=20
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:55:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: "S. Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Thank you and question

Morning all,

    Thank you all so much for the warm welcome.  The suggestions for
luring my husband into the fold are great.  He is a good photographer and
has a collection of older cameras.  I suspect an opportunity to explore
very early photography methods would appeal to him.  Any excuse to
acquire some new equipment and learn something new.
    Of course, the opportunity to take the telescope out is not to be
overlooked.  He was afraid his would be too modern to take to a voo, but
now he's thinking of looking for a period kit he can build and use on
site.
    My question is this:  How do I find information on voos and
gatherings in my area?  And other like minded people?  I live in Iowa and
the only gatherings I have found are at Ushers Ferry in Cedar Rapids and
at Fort Atkison (sp?).  And everyone I spoke to was from someplace other
than Iowa.   The only newsletter I found for Iowa is no longer
being published, and I have not yet found a web list that shows anything
for Iowa.

thanks for the help

your humble servant,

Susan Gilbert
She Has Old Hands

Iowa City, Iowa
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:05:56 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wantabee wants to make loin cloth

On 1998-07-30 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
   >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
   >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41
   >Sender: [e-mail]
   >Precedence: bulk
   >Status:
   >always remember
   >you can wear the loincloth without the legging but you can't wear
   >the leggins without the loincloth
Not so fast,I'm looking for the source,but I read some where about a
colonial french farmer wearing a work smock(oversized cheap shirt)over his
shirt AND as a breechclout along with wool leggins and wood clogs!
 I think it was in New France(Canada) but like I said I have to find the
source again!
SOUFLE,SOUFLE  La VIELLE

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:07:14 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwest Company

Look for "THE SAVAGE COUNTRY" by Walter O'Meara it was published in 1960 so
it may still be found in libraries,or through inter-library loan.
 It follows the carear of Alexander Henry in the NW from 1799-1814, Henry
was a booshway with NWC. It would be nice if this book was reprinted as my
copy is getting kinda rough and I don't like to take it off the shelf unless
I need a reference,definately do not loan it out anymore,another good reason
for reprinting i'd have a copy to loan ;-)






On 1998-07-31 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
   >X-Sender: [e-mail]
   >Hallo the List
   >I am looking for one or two good books on the history of the
   >Montreal based Northwest Company, which operated in the Canadian/US
   >Northwest territories from the about 1784 until it merged with the
   >HBC in 1831.
   >I have found volumes and volumes on HBC, the Astorians, etc., but
   >little on the NWC.  I am particurlary interested in something (a
   >journal maybe?) that details the day to day operations of Spokan
   >House or Kullyspel House in the 1810 period to include listings of
   >goods and prices.
   >Since I have subscribed to the Northwest Journal, (excellent
   >material incidently....) I have gotten a better idea, but haven't
   >really gotten a good feel for the day to day administration of the
   >posts, or the extent of the NWC.
   >Incidently, if your interested in the Northwest Journal, they have a
   >webpage at; http://www.agt.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html
   >Regards
   >Lee Newbill
   >Viola, Idaho
   >email at [e-mail]
   >Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
   >http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186

SOUFLE,SOUFLE  La VIELLE

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:07:20 -0500
From: Jeff Powers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Northwest Company

"THE SAVAGE COUNTRY" p.7 "The end came in 1760,with Wolfe's conquest of
Canada by a single battle  atop the Rock of Quebec. But the trade did not
pass immediately into British hands.For a time there was no trade..."



On 1998-07-31 [e-mail] said to [e-mail]
   >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
   >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
   >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by newton.ticon.
   >net id EAA01180 Status:
   >Lee,
   >I can't help on your request but it brought to mind an interesting
   >aside.
   >I was once told by a feller, that I think knew, The HBC and The
   >Northwest Companies were originally both founded by French.
   >Then again maybe I did see something in a book I think was called
   >"River of Blood."  It was a long time ago, can't be sure, the book
   >was in a library now dispersed.
   >John...
   >At 12:45 AM 7/31/98 -0700, you wrote:
   >>Hallo the List
   >>I am looking for one or two good books on the history of the
   >>Montreal based Northwest Company, which operated in the Canadian/US
   >>Northwest territories from the about 1784 until it merged with the
   >>HBC in 1831.
   >>I have found volumes and volumes on HBC, the Astorians, etc., but
   >>little on the NWC.á I am particurlary interested in something (a
   >>journal maybe?) that details the day to day operations of Spokan
   >>House or Kullyspel House in the 1810 period to include listings of
   >goods and prices. >
   >>Since I have subscribed to the Northwest Journal, (excellent
   >>material incidently....) I have gotten a better idea, but haven't
   >>really gotten a good feel for the day to day administration of the
   >>posts, or the extent of the NWC.
   >>Incidently, if your interested in the Northwest Journal, they have
   >>a webpage at;
   ><http://www.agt.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html>http://www.agt.
   >net/public/gottf red/nwj.html
   >>Regards
   >>Lee Newbill
   >>Viola, Idaho
   >>email at [e-mail]
   >>Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage
   >><http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186>http://www.geocities.
   >com/Yos emite/Gorge/7186
   >John T. Kramer, maker of:á
   >Kramer's Best Antique Improver
   >>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
   >ááááááá >>>As good as old!<<<
   ><http://www.kramerize.com/>

SOUFLE,SOUFLE  La VIELLE

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:16:57 -0500
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn-Man: Thank you and question

Hello Susan (and the other new ones),

To find out about vous, I would suggest the Powder Horn News or Smoke
and Fire News.

Powder Horn Nes
P.O. Box 374
Schaller, Iowa 51053-0374

$15 for 1 year
$28 for 2 years
$40 for 3 years


Smoke and Fire
P.O Box 166
Grand Rapids, OH 43522

$18 for 1 year
$34 for 2 years



BTW we have 3 women in our group whose husbands aren't involved.  One is
a founder of the group the other two are officers.

Jim

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  /`-_    Jim Lindberg                 |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa
 { .   }/ 724 East Grand Avenue        |Flambeau Rivere Voyageurs
  \    /  Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter,
   |___|  http://reality.sgi.com/jal/  |Until we next meete.  Go Gentle.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:20:49 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iron Striker gone Soft

In a message dated 98-07-30 13:00:35 EDT, Hawk wrote:

<< you will have to draw it so it wont
 break like glass------- >>

DRAW?  I'm really not a smith so if you don't explain I will get out my pencil
and pad which I know can not be correct.

Your humble servant

C.T. Oakes

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:20:48 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RESPONSIBILITY FOR ATTIRE OF GUESTS

In a message dated 98-07-30 13:00:25 EDT, you write:

<< if it were the responsibility of the sponsor who invites them to be sure
 the guest is properly attired.  >>

Well put, in our club that is the rule, to join you must have a sponsor and
the sponsor is responsible for educating and guiding the new comer.  In
addition our club has a committee of three (elected yearly by the club) that
meets with all of the prospective new members and their sponsors to assist
(not criticise) the new member in achieving their goal and persona.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:02:18 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Crawford)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: commercial leather clothes

I have an elk skin that was commercial tanned.  A friend of mine who uses
the Rit remover swears by the process, and I have seen his results.  It
won't make the hide white, and it isn't supposed to.  What it does is
removes the artificial "golden" color  many commercial dyes have.  It gives
the hide a more subtle cream-tan color, which looks very much like
smoke-tan.  He recommends this as part of the process to stretch and dry
the hide.  I will follow his advice, as he has had numerous instances of
success.  Furthermore, elk makes good clothing, as again I have seen and
worn elk skin shirts, pants, etc, under outdoor conditions.   I have no
problem with elk skin clothing.

I don't make clothing for films.  I make clothing for living history.   I
don't need to airbrush skins to add highlights.  A weekend at an event will
do that, and without the need for an air compressor.  Real dirt and grease
is much better for aging than "fuller's dirt."  Using them under real
conditions will age them sufficiently, and gradually, just as they would
have been historically.  As for coloring, smoke 'em.

Brain tanned is best, but commercial tanned is still good.  Use good
treatment techniques and it could be hard to tell the difference.  For some
folks who don't have access to brain-tanned skins, commercial leather is a
great alternative.

The moral is:  Do what works for you.

Cheers,
HBC

*****************************************
Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
[e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
806/742-2442           Box 43191
FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
               WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #114
*******************************

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