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hist_text-digest       Wednesday, July 29 1998       Volume 01 : Number 110




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:40:16 -0700
From: Frank <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

Gail,

I'm probably not the best one on the list to answer this question but will give
it a shot.
It has been my experience (short as it is) that everyone had to start somewhere
and with very few exceptions everyone remembers how it was when they started
out!
Lanney Ratcliff's recent posting is some "sound wisdom" and I can't add much to
it.
There are different kinds of Rendezvous and the "Primitive" events are somewhat
restrictive in attire primarily to provide a atmosphere of authenticity for the
participants.  Even so, everyone is always welcome and with very little
preparation you can fit right in.  I would call one of the officers or Bushway
putting on the event you're interested in attending and ask them about the focus
of the event and what is acceptable etc.  You'll probably be surprised to find
that most voo's are not at all restrictive.
Keep in mind that this list primary focus is historical authenticity.  There are
certainly people here that represent every imaginable aspect of the hobby but
most are aspiring toward authenticity.  Some of the postings here can lead one
to believe that things are very restrictive.  IF you are looking to be
authentic, you have to be firm on what is "right and wrong".  Again, that is the
main focus here but you determine for yourself just what level of participation
you are interested in and create your persona accordingly.  If "period
correctness" isn't your cup of tea, that's okay too.  You'll be hard pressed to
find anywhere better than this list to learn from and be inspired by!
The main thing is to have fun!  This is a great period of time in our history
and I'm sure you'll do just fine.

YMHOS, Medicine Bear

Gail Carbiener wrote:

> MedicineBear:
>     I have not gone to my first voo yet and am a bit apprehensive that I
> will be out of date, style, etc. Can I bring my commercial tanned bag, even
> if I don't have a gun yet? I have canvas, high waisted pants (Wah made)
> etc..
>     I did go out and buy all the "Book of Buckskinning" and have found them
> to be very good to keep up with the "pros" on this list and what they are
> talking about.
>     I plan on going to a voo in Idaho in September, will probably stay at
> the modern camp (or God forbid a motel) as I do not have camping gear.
>     Gail Carbiener
> (Doing living history of HBC trapper)
> ==============================
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:04:56 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

This is the cheapest, easiest correct outfit I can conceive of.  It would be
good if you are just wanting to visit and see if you like what's going on, or
if you are looking for the least expensive way to get started.

Others have made several good references from which you can choose this is
minimalist and cheap.  There are still ways to cut costs further depending on
how much you want to do.  I have bought original period knives for $0.50,
but I
knew what I was looking at.  If you're handy with fire and iron an old file
can
be made into a fine striker.

Coarse woven cotton or linen shirt.  Take a long rectangle of cloth wide
enough
to leave ample room inside for you and long enough to tuck around your crotch
inside your pants.  That was the common period underwear.  I've not seen the
documentation for the other mentioned.

Fold in half lengthwise and cut a "T" slot for your head.  Hem, bind or not.
Take two more rectangles (pretty close to square to make a bulky sleeve.  Sew
it all together.  Sew a wide hem at the cuff and run a thong thru it to gather
and tie at the wrist.  You can also buy patterns and finished shirts.

Buy a pair of Gohn Brothers, Middlebury, IN broad fall pants in white duck
or a
correct denim (its the only denim they got).  Tell them you don't want the
pliers pocket.  Their metal buttons are as close to period as you're going to
get without some looking (stamped similar shape to earlier cast).  The cotton
webbing suspenders aren't bad.  It will probably cost somewhere in the
neighbor
hood of $50.00 for both.  They also have straw and felt hats which are
acceptable.  Prettier if you "dress'em" up.  Reshaping them a bit doesn't
hurt.
Or make a simple sack cap of blanket scrap.

Leather Findings (look in the yellow pages) or Tandy sell what they call
splits, cheap.  It's the inner, flesh side, cut off when cutting the top grain
leather (weather side) to a specific weight.  It's crummy leather but it will
make a pair of mocs that will survive a rendezvous or two.  The better the
leather the better the mocs.

Make a pair of simple center seam mocs (patterns and instructions available
everywhere.  Make a simple flap shoulder bag to carry stuff if you got it.  A
glovers needle and awl make sewing easier.

Buy two of the best wool blankets you can afford and a couple of blanket pins,
coat, bedroll, etc.  The Baron blankets made in Utah are fairly inexpensive
and
quite good for 5 years of daily use.  Whitney's and Bay's last longer, they
also cost more.  The grey with black bar 1850 army blanket they sell is
exceptionally good and  very tightly woven.  They are a little smaller than 4
points and if you run large may let in chilly drafts.

Get a 7'X7' or a little larger piece of  good canvas.  If you look around
sometimes you can find pretty good stuff at closeout stores and simply cut the
metal grommets and heavy edges off, I've never bothered to hem them up and it
didn't seem to make much difference, they wore out all over.  Tie small stones
in the corners if you string it up for shelter.  Or just roll up in your
blankets in it.

Not all "camp dogs" are unwelcome, Iron Horn never once brought food, he
always
gained weight in camp.  Depends on who and maybe how the begging is done.  A
tin cup and your knife may be all the utensils you need.

The large Revolutionary War Period folding knife, many of the sutlers sell,
eliminates the need to make a sheath and belt, it may be a little more
expensive than a Russell Green River.  Get a fire steel, flint and tinderbox
(Sucrets tin left to red hot in a fire to burn the paint off and turn
blue-black), cool and dry make some char, rubbed the cooled box with dry char
to retard rust (DO NOT OIL).  You can get by easier without a gun than without
a knife and fire.

Find someplace to go wear your period outfit.  Add geegaws, foofaraw and
plunder; as needed.

John...

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:09:33 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Painting Canoes

Unfortunately, paint does not stick to polyurethane canoes or Kayaks.  I have
one as well wood canvas, fiberglass, etc.  Best to leave it unpainted and
trade it in for what you want.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:52:37 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

OldFox,
 The haversack I use is just an envelope with a flap at the top. I made mine
out of "breathable" oilcloth dyed with indigo...I modified the original
description somewhat(longer and a little wider,with a flap). I carry it with
a strap.There is a line drawing, I believe, and several good references in
Buckskinning VII(without looking). It is also mentioned in "Siege of
Quebec"by Knox.
Dennis

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1

>Dennis,
>How is your French Haversack made.  Is it the conventional sidebag style
that
>everyone uses or does something make it uniquely "French."  Would be
>interested in a description and construction details.  My personna is that
of
>a pre-1750 "habitant" living with the Indians along the Illinois River.
>
>I currently use a rucksack that is about the size and shape of a
pillowcase.
>It is painted with black paint to simulate a tarred or pitched sack.  I put
a
>.75 cal ball in each corner and tie hemp rope around them.  To these ropes
are
>attached rawhide shoulder straps with more rope at the top tied to form a
>single line.  I put all my stuff in the sack, gather up the top, and tie
the
>single rope around it.  This in effect gives me a rucksack.
>
>OldFox
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:54:41 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest

ill through in a steel buckle of my choice on the blanket.          iron tongue

Jim Colburn wrote:

> Washtahay-
>         OK folks.  We've had a lot of palaver over one small feature of one bag
> the last few days.  So lets get down to brass tacks on this.  I want to
> locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as having been in use
> on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target date of 1830.
> Here are the criteria the bag must meet:
>         "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the
> Missouri River trade.  We should probably include bags in use in the St
> Louis area and west within Missouri.  While I would love to hear about the
> bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area.
>         "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in
> use in the area defined as "Frontier".  By objectively, I mean by
> contemporary records or a chain of evidence.  The assignment of dates, for
> example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by
> other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75
> of KRHP).  If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains
> to Rendezvous, great!  But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the
> late 1850s isn't what we are looking for.
>         The bag must be published or accessible to the public.  The folks on the
> list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate it
> for their own purposes.  Be prepared to furnish supporting documentation.
>
>         Prize?  Immortal fame isn't enough?  How about a rum horn and horn cup?
> Copied after the canteen shown on p 142  and the bottom cup on p 144 of
> "The Powder Horn and its Architecture".
>         Let's run this for a week or so and see what comes out of the woodwork.
> Judge's decisions are final.  Hawk, John Kramer-are you guys willing to
> help me judge this?
>
> Let the hunt begin!
> LongWalker c. du B.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:04:29 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

that is what make me so made at people pointing and whispering its like being in
scool againe. its not period. what do they think its not period if they want to
have period let them thatys why i stay away from them. it takes the fun out of it
for me usualy its the ones that were never in the country and lived all there lives
in the cities and read a book got it all down by thursday and then start pointing .
the costume polece are a visious lot and i dont think i detest anything worse.
iron tounge----ben there done that!!!!!!!!! whaaaaaah

Frank wrote:

> Hello the camp!
>
> On the subject of "starting out", I have often wished that some experienced
> enterprising skinner would put together a web page with pictures showing their
> "historically correct" possibles.  Not every imaginable item but just the
> basics needed to make a respectable outfit.  Heck, others could post to this
> site as they get pictures of their stuff.  There's nothing like showing up to a
> voo in your new outfit, full of expectations of a good time only to have those
> with "well worn skins" look down their noses at you or worse, whisper and
> point!  Sure does take the fun out of a weekend.  It's really hard sometimes to
> imagine what a particular piece of gear or clothing looks like.  I live where
> there is virtually no one to look to for help and the books I have don't have
> the best pictures.  I imagine there are many greenhorns in the same fix.
> Just a thought...
>
> Medicine Bear

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:06:43 -0700
From: [e-mail] (john c funk,jr)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: My reason for being on this list

Gail,

Welcome to the list.  As a side note on James Clyman, he is burried in
Napa, Ca.
A local orginization, The George C. Yount Mountain Men concuct a
primitive gathering each year in memory of James Clyman, The James Clyman
Primitive.

John Funk
Man is judged not so much by the friends he keeps but by the ones that
will call him friend.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:06:57 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

amen to that   H.B.

Henry B. Crawford wrote:

> >Kirk,
> > The best advice I can offer. Do it right the first time..Stay away from
> >chrome tan and "shiney " ronnyvoo stuff. It will be a helluva alot cheaper
> >in the long run.
> >  I carry a blanket, French haversack, a small kettle, my knife & gun
> >equipment. My fusil. Oh yeah!, my spoon! And some asst. of stuff in the
> >pockets of me wekit.  You may want a trail tarp for a leanto, if you are so
> >inclined..But you don't need much else.
> >>
> >Dennis Miles
> >AMM#1622
>
> Unless you expect everyone else to feed you at a rondy, you'd better bring
> some food along, too.  Many times a few people will form a mess and cook
> and eat together.  Bring something to add to the group's culinary effort.
> There's nothing so unwelcome at a rondy as a freeloader.  Bring a share of
> victuals and you'll be welcome in anyone's camp (theoretically).
>
> HBC
>
> *****************************************
> Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
> [e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
> 806/742-2442           Box 43191
> FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>                WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> ******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:10:24 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

Lads,
 Just carry some jerk and a little aitmeal..Ye'll be well content. These are
two of the things in me weskit or rolled in me haversack.
 If the lad has not enpough sense to carry a wee bit a food wi' him. Then,
he really need to just stay in bed..<G> I didn't think I had to spell  out
things that are just plain common sense...But I guess I do.
Dennis

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jerry H. Wheeler <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit


>amen to that   H.B.
>
>Henry B. Crawford wrote:
>
>> >Kirk,
>> > The best advice I can offer. Do it right the first time..Stay away from
>> >chrome tan and "shiney " ronnyvoo stuff. It will be a helluva alot
cheaper
>> >in the long run.
>> >  I carry a blanket, French haversack, a small kettle, my knife & gun
>> >equipment. My fusil. Oh yeah!, my spoon! And some asst. of stuff in the
>> >pockets of me wekit.  You may want a trail tarp for a leanto, if you are
so
>> >inclined..But you don't need much else.
>> >>
>> >Dennis Miles
>> >AMM#1622
>>
>> Unless you expect everyone else to feed you at a rondy, you'd better
bring
>> some food along, too.  Many times a few people will form a mess and cook
>> and eat together.  Bring something to add to the group's culinary effort.
>> There's nothing so unwelcome at a rondy as a freeloader.  Bring a share
of
>> victuals and you'll be welcome in anyone's camp (theoretically).
>>
>> HBC
>>
>> *****************************************
>> Henry B. Crawford        Curator of History
>> [e-mail]     Museum of Texas Tech University
>> 806/742-2442           Box 43191
>> FAX [phone]             Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>>                WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>> ******  Living History . . . Because it's there!  *******
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:21:05 -0700
From: Frank <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

WAGH!  I'll lift my cup to that Iron tounge!  Peskie varments what 'r lookin' ta steal
'nother mans fun!
I too understand the apprehension of being new and wantin' ta fit in.
Glad we have people here on this list willing to help a greenhorn get some of the green
off!

Medicine Bear

Jerry H. Wheeler wrote:

> that is what make me so made at people pointing and whispering its like being in
> scool againe. its not period. what do they think its not period if they want to
> have period let them thatys why i stay away from them. it takes the fun out of it
> for me usualy its the ones that were never in the country and lived all there lives
> in the cities and read a book got it all down by thursday and then start pointing .
> the costume polece are a visious lot and i dont think i detest anything worse.
> iron tounge----ben there done that!!!!!!!!! whaaaaaah
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:37:23 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  MtMan-List: Re: My reason for being on this list

In a message dated 7/29/98 9:22:14 AM, you wrote:

<<Seems that Jedediah got stuck a lot. And he died very young
as a result of being stuck in the desert.
>>

Poor Jed died at the hands of Indians.
      Dick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:01:00 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Gail
You picked up on Roger's point exactly.  Come with the right attitude =
and spirit and you will nearly always be welcomed like a long lost =
relative and shown every courtesy. There sometimes will be a =
self-appointed costume policeman or two pointing out what they percieve =
to be non period gear, but treat them kindly and pay little heed to =
their opinions.  Chances are that most of the people who have to deal =
with them all the time wish they would move to France.
Lanney Ratcliff
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gail Carbiener <[e-mail]>
    To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
    Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 7:28 PM
    Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit
   =20
   =20
    Capt:
        Thanks for the outline and advice. You make it sound like we =
"newbees" will be welcome, and then can "see" what you experienced guys =
look like.
    Gail Carbiener
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
        To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
        Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 4:07 PM
        Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit
       =20


- ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01BDBB3C.5F93DE40
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gail</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>You picked up =
on Roger's=20
point exactly.  Come with the right attitude and spirit and you =
will nearly=20
always be welcomed like a long lost relative and shown every courtesy. =
There=20
sometimes will be a self-appointed costume policeman or two pointing out =
what=20
they percieve to be non period gear, but treat them kindly and pay =
little heed=20
to their opinions.  Chances are that most of the people who have to =
deal=20
with them all the time wish they would move to France.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Gail Carbiener <<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>To: </B><A =

    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Wednesday, July 29, 1998 7:28 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: =
MtMan-List:=20
    pilgrim outfit<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Capt:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>    Thanks for =
the outline=20
    and advice. You make it sound like we "newbees" will be =
welcome,=20
    and then can "see" what you experienced guys look=20
    like.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Gail=20
    Carbiener</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original=20
        Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Roger Lahti <<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
        <<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
        </B>Wednesday, July 29, 1998 4:07 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: =
MtMan-List:=20
        pilgrim =
outfit<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:07:36 -0700
From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade gun!1750's to 1770's

MICHAL---iron tongue hear  if got a recipe that does wonders for case
hardening . if you want it ill give it to you . it will take mild steel and
make a case hard on you wont believe it goes deep into the metal but still
leaves enough of the soft that its pliable and strong/       iron tongue

Michael Pierce wrote:

> concure with john totally---"QUALITY,QUALITY,QUALITY"  buy what you can
> afford---My trade gun was made by pappy horn in 1974 and has a boska
> barrel that is 44 " long(Its 28 gage and shoots a 535 round ball just
> like my rifle) the lock(which is a charlieville) had the same problem
> that john was talking about---a mushy spring---also had a problem with
> the frizzen being soft---cased the frizzen and have never had a problem
> with sparks since---have a extra frizzen that I carry in the shooting
> bag---been toating it for many years and have never had the need to
> change since i cased the one on the gun---we made a new spring for the
> lock and i'ts not mushy any more---stought enough it takes some work to
> cock--never misfires now---eats up the flints but never misfires---"its
> very fast in the fall)  cant remember when it misfired--will wear the
> flint down to the cock jaws before it needs replacing but i normally
> replace it ever 20 or 30 shots---I like the black english flints---almost
> opaque and like them sharp --hard spots in the flints bang off after a
> few shots because of the heavy mainspring tension---
>
> The toutch hole size and location is important--- mine is extremely large
> and will almost  put enough powder in the flash pan to fire if I close
> the frizzen when I load it---don't stand to the left of me or you will
> get flash burns.  I keep the lock cocks in good shape because of the size
> of the toutch hole--yet the trigger pull is not bad---can drop the gun
> when its cocked and it wont let the hammer fall---it is also fast enough
> that you can turn the gun upside down and it will still fire with the
> powder falling out of the pan.    I have a flash deflector that I put on
> it when i am at matches because of the size of the toutch hole
>
> the barrel thickness is why I had Boska make me a barrel I didn't think
> that the ones on the market that I saw were thick enough to be safe so I
> had him add a .040 to the wall of the barrel and heavy up in the places
> it needed to have the strength required--gun still weights less than 8
> pounds----no extra  on anything else-----shoots like a Rifle out to 100
> yds---with round ball--I use the rear screw and my fingers for a rear
> sight---and normally can keep them in the black of a big bull target very
>  consistantly.  I didn't like the 20 gage or larger because of the added
> stock size except in the cutoff camp guns or buffilo runners---the stock
> on my gun is good quality hard maple with the grain rinning with the
> wrist and not sliceing the wrist---this helps to keep it from breaking
> because of it's size-- the trigger guard is the only reinforcement in
> this area---
>
> remember what john said "quality, quality,quality"  this is where you get
> accuracy and dependibility---YOU CANT MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS
> EAR---BUY THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD---ESPECIALLY THE BARREL AND THE
> LOCK---can put them on a pine board and they will shoot good---- poor
> quality and you get poor dependibility and poor shooting---and you will
> soon disharted in the sport and shooting----
>
> YMHOSANT
>         =+=
>       "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> 1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]
>
> On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:56:19 -0500 John Kramer <[e-mail]>
> writes:
> >One thing about shooting a Charleville is the lock springs guarantee
> >sparks no
> >matter if your rock is sharp, if you've got almost any hunk of flint
> >clamped in
> >the cock jaws you are going to get sparks.  I've always felt the
> >springs on
> >reproduction Brown Bess's were too soft and slow, they still seem to
> >work
> >pretty well.
> >
> >The main problem with many Trade Guns is the locks have soft slow
> >springs;
> >they
> >need a real sharp flint.  Some of the frizzens aren't tempered well
> >and some
> >makers drill the flash hole too close to the bottom of the pan, or too
> >far
> >forward or rear of center.  I've seen some really thin barrels that
> >concerned
> >me.  Stocks are light (often poorly grained) and tend to break at the
> >wrist.
> >Too many "first, and sometimes only, guns" were trade guns because
> >there were
> >some cheap kits some years back.
> >
> >Hawk has it right about going for quality, and the Italian made
> >Charleville's
> >are bullet proof, my horse thrice tried to bend mine around a tree,
> >took a few
> >hours of careful smithing on a rock with an axe butt to straighten the
> >ramrod
> >but she still shoots straight, a few cracks in the fore stock, a
> >little
> >missing
> >wood.  Been abusing it since 1978.  I tripped a hand forged beaver
> >trap
> >with it
> >a couple of times to leave a few more period marks on the butt stock.
> >
> >
> >Many years ago I owned incredible Mulford, Bivens, Smola and other
> >fine makers
> >arms.  Every time I took one in the field I was too concerned about
> >injuring
> >the fine finish carving, inlay and detail.  then I got my Charleville.
> > First
> >thing I did was throw it on the ground, throw rocks at it, left it out
> >in the
> >rain and personally wet it down in the hot sun to rust the barrel and
> >lock,
> >stomped on it, beat it with chains,  and never worried about hurting
> >its fine
> >finish again.  I rub it down with my Improver once in a while and it
> >is
> >beautiful.  The iron is nearly black and the wood rich.  I've had
> >several
> >"experts" at gun shows swear it's an original.
> >
> >I also carry a (20 to the pound) buffalo runner cut down from an old
> >Green
> >River Forge kit and like it a lot.  Ain't nothing left to break off.
> >Plenty of
> >iron in the barrel.  The best parts then available.
> >
> >The fine tuned crisp springs in a quality rifle/fowler lock don't
> >exist in
> >muskets.  Too spend a lot of time fine tuning a musket lock seems a
> >little
> >odd,
> >its not what a musket was.  I prefer stouter  springs on mine.
> >
> >The kit the blanket gun was made from cost $325 in 1981.  The stock
> >was
> >roughed
> >out and not even close to inletted or drilled for the ramrod.  Hated
> >to whack
> >off so much nice wood.  Traded a bunch of prime plunder to Mike Wilson
> >to
> >build
> >it for me.  A blanket gun takes as much to build as a full length
> >trade gun.
> >
> >Buy the best you can afford and look around a little first.  You'll
> >soon
> >develop an eye for quality.
> >
> >John...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 09:12 PM 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >>David'
> >>
> >>You might consider a Tulle' fusil in 20 ga. I have had one I put
> >>together a few years ago and I love it. It is light and handy and
> >quit
> >>accurate with a patched ball. It shoots shoot very well with simple
> >>wadding. The best part is that it goes way back to the mid 1700's and
> >is
> >>not out of place in the early 1800's.
> >>
> >>I also have a Charlleville Musket that I got somewhere back in the
> >late
> >>70's or early 80's and only went to the Tulle' cause the ammo is
> >lighter
> >>for the Tulle' with it being 20 ga. and the Charlleville being 14 ga.
> >>The Charlleville shot every bit as good as the Tulle' if not a
> >smidgen
> >>better and I had a heck of a lot of fun shooting with the rifle boys
> >>around WA. Give em a good scare whenever that Charlleville came out
> >of
> >>its case, I did!
> >>
> >>I have some friends that carry Northwest trade guns and they have
> >their
> >>share of problems with them. That's why they usually don't go for all
> >>that much money. Be real careful if that is what you are looking to
> >buy.
> >>My best advice to anyone getting ready to invest some money in a gun
> >is
> >>get as much quality as you can afford and quality will start at well
> >>over $500 (in my opinion). That is for a quality kit that isn't too
> >hard
> >>to put together.
> >>
> >>Well that is my bit of advice. Let us know what you come up with.
> >Good
> >>luck.
> >>
> >>I remain
> >>YMOS
> >>Capt. Lahti
> >>
> >Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> >John Kramer  <[e-mail]>
> >
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:40:06 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shooting pouches

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT ON THE THRED THING---I concur with your input---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:34:39 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

darn--good input lanny--looks like my long winded postings but you made
all the points----GOOD IMPUT---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:46:25 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: My reason for being on this list

gale welcome to the list ---some real saulty ones that are here---sandbag
a while and listen to the palaber----got a contest going on a shooting
bag--- you might want to join in the contest--- got at least 3 prizes to
go to the winner---let me know and we will repost the requirements---

      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:04:23 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scotts in the West

LOTS OF SCOTTS IN THE FUR TRADE PERIOD---all you have to do is keep
everything date sensitive---look at the black watch---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:40:00 EDT <[e-mail]> writes:
>I, being an ambitious yet poor historical reinactor, am faced with a
>dilema.
>I have been invited into a scottish clan to be a highlander, this is
>not the
>problem.  The problem is that I am already trying to get into mountain
>man
>type reinacting.  I was wondering if any of the people on this list
>have
>information on Scotts who were mountain men, and if I might be able to
>cross
>over some of the costs in reinactment.  THank you.  Matt
>
>

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:00:28 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

them new crom tans always go to the creek with a bunch of good
help---usually makes them have some new verses in character---WAGH---give
um hell iron toung----
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:21:05 -0700 Frank
<[e-mail]> writes:
>WAGH!  I'll lift my cup to that Iron tounge!  Peskie varments what 'r
>lookin' ta steal
>'nother mans fun!
>I too understand the apprehension of being new and wantin' ta fit in.
>Glad we have people here on this list willing to help a greenhorn get
>some of the green
>off!
>
>Medicine Bear
>
>Jerry H. Wheeler wrote:
>
>> that is what make me so made at people pointing and whispering its
>like being in
>> scool againe. its not period. what do they think its not period if
>they want to
>> have period let them thatys why i stay away from them. it takes the
>fun out of it
>> for me usualy its the ones that were never in the country and lived
>all there lives
>> in the cities and read a book got it all down by thursday and then
>start pointing .
>> the costume polece are a visious lot and i dont think i detest
>anything worse.
>> iron tounge----ben there done that!!!!!!!!! whaaaaaah
>>
>
>
>

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:55:24 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael Pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pilgrim outfit

give um hell iron toung---
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-[phone]     E-MAIL ADDRESS: [e-mail]

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:04:29 -0700 "Jerry H. Wheeler" <[e-mail]>
writes:
>that is what make me so made at people pointing and whispering its
>like being in
>scool againe. its not period. what do they think its not period if
>they want to
>have period let them thatys why i stay away from them. it takes the
>fun out of it
>for me usualy its the ones that were never in the country and lived
>all there lives
>in the cities and read a book got it all down by thursday and then
>start pointing .
>the costume polece are a visious lot and i dont think i detest
>anything worse.
>iron tounge----ben there done that!!!!!!!!! whaaaaaah
>
>Frank wrote:
>
>> Hello the camp!
>>
>> On the subject of "starting out", I have often wished that some
>experienced
>> enterprising skinner would put together a web page with pictures
>showing their
>> "historically correct" possibles.  Not every imaginable item but
>just the
>> basics needed to make a respectable outfit.  Heck, others could post
>to this
>> site as they get pictures of their stuff.  There's nothing like
>showing up to a
>> voo in your new outfit, full of expectations of a good time only to
>have those
>> with "well worn skins" look down their noses at you or worse,
>whisper and
>> point!  Sure does take the fun out of a weekend.  It's really hard
>sometimes to
>> imagine what a particular piece of gear or clothing looks like.  I
>live where
>> there is virtually no one to look to for help and the books I have
>don't have
>> the best pictures.  I imagine there are many greenhorns in the same
>fix.
>> Just a thought...
>>
>> Medicine Bear
>
>
>
>
>

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End of hist_text-digest V1 #110
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