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glencook-fans-digest     Friday, February 1 2002     Volume 01 : Number 164




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:49:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Dutton <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) trilogies III

- --- "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> You express displeasure at my unitary narrative broken up into three
> parts--so do I. We are in agreement. Just thought I'd create  an extreme
> example to demonstrate precisely WHY they're so annoying. Thank you for
> demonstrating my point.

Except your point is a falsely extreme analogy.  It might be barely relevant to
purely marketing driven serializations [such as the original serial publication
of Steven King's The Green Mile] but isn't relevant to the issue of multivolume
novels.

Most multivolume novels are published over several books for reasons that
include the economic [how many authors or publishers would take the risk of
preparing 6000 pages of written material prior to the first publication] but
also the practical [it being presently unfeasible to properly bind a 6000 page
single volume].


A standalone book is much like a movie.  You delve into it, you enjoy it, and
then you're done.  Multivolume novels or long sequel-series are more like a
television series, where part of the enjoyment can be the time to reflect on
the current installment and wonder where the writer(s) will go in the future.

When you say that you like standalone books but not multivolume novels it's
akin to saying that you like movies, but not television series.  It's a matter
of taste, and nothing more than that.  Your example has nothing useful to add
about the nature of such works or why you find them unsatisfying; by using an
extreme example you prove nothing about the real-world examples, which are more
than abundant enough to have been used in a rational discussion of their
relative merits and flaws compared to other works.









>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PrimalChrome [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:01 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>
>
> This is a childish comparison as you well know.  Please keep such bullshit
> posts to your Harry Potter mailing list.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:36 AM
> Subject: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>
>
> > Those of you in the 'one stories, three parts' school will no doubt see
> > nothing unusual in this message; to those of you who, like me, want each
> > work to stand alone,   I apologise.
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

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 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:53:47 -0600
From: "PrimalChrome" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III

Sorry, you demonstrated nothing more than a piss-poor attempt at being an
annoyance.

An apt comparison to your 'extreme example' would be my saying that I do not
enjoy opera.  Then in order to demonstrate what I do not like about opera I
would have a five year old sing his favorite barney song for a few hours at
the top of her lungs.  There is no comparison, it is only a infantile
attempt at gathering attention to one's self.

The probable reason you find epic tales to be 'displeasing' or 'annoying' is
because you're a classic example of the spoon-fed television programmed
american.  Your patience and ability to absorb is limited to the now of
immediate gratification rather than any kind of ability or desire to
appreciate something of any real length or worth.




- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) trilogies III


> You express displeasure at my unitary narrative broken up into three
> parts--so do I. We are in agreement. Just thought I'd create  an extreme
> example to demonstrate precisely WHY they're so annoying. Thank you for
> demonstrating my point.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PrimalChrome [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:01 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>
>
> This is a childish comparison as you well know.  Please keep such bullshit
> posts to your Harry Potter mailing list.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:36 AM
> Subject: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>
>
> > Those of you in the 'one stories, three parts' school will no doubt see
> > nothing unusual in this message; to those of you who, like me, want each
> > work to stand alone,   I apologise.
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:49:25 -0700
From: Sam Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook - DARKWAR SPOILERS

I finally got off my butt and procured some of his non-BC and Garrett books
in the form of the Darkwar trilogy and granted, I'm only most of the way
through the second novel, but it seems to me that Marika is that sort of
character as well.  We start with her as a "pup" and see how the destruction
of her packstead starts her on the road to becoming something that is so far
not quite a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath, but not too far off
either.  I just finished reading about the bloody vengeance she wreaked upon
the meth who destroyed Maksche and the way she murdered her mentor and I'm
amazed that I still sort of like her.  I think it's because we get to follow
her from her days as a pup and witness first hand the circumstances that
make her what she is.  Just another example of how Glen Cook writes in
shades of gray rather than absolutes.

Sam

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Llaneza [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook


Cook asks a unique question in several of his books. What turned a happy
smiling child into a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath ? This comes
up in the BC books, Dread Empire novels, and in Swordbearer.

It's a psychological insight very few authors have. I'd like to see him
trace a protagonist from childhood to the darkside. And I'll bet he
outdoes Lucas.

Lawrence Jenab wrote:

>I really agree with that, Richard.  Oddly enough, Cook's fantasy books
>have more genuine human nature in them than a dozen books of the
>supposed "psychological realism" school.
>
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Chilton" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:32 PM
>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook
>
>
>>A Turner wrote:
>>
>>>SPOILERS (Shadows Linger)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I certainly haven't seen another fantasy writer who manages to change
>>>
>both
>
>>>form and characterization of the people narrating like Glen does in
>>>the
>>>
>BC
>
>>>series. I'm just rereading Shadows Linger, and right from the start
>>>of
>>>
>the
>
>>>second book you can see people changing. Raven becomes as morally
>>>black
>>>
>as
>
>>>the Dominator and his creatures, all in order to protect Darling,
>>>while Croaker and co. start to question what they're doing more and
>>>more, even though they keep on doing it (until the end that is). I
>>>don't think you could get that broader moral perspective in the
>>>straight first person narration of the original book - you really
>>>need to look at characters
>>>
>like
>
>>>Marron Shed and Asa in their grubby surroundings in order to
>>>understand
>>>
>why
>
>>>they act like they do.
>>>
>>I think one of the best parts of Cook's writings is he uses normal
>>people.  His characters aren't the "I'll never fail" heroes, the
>>souless villians, nor any other stock characters but normal people.
>>
>>One of my favorite scenes from Shadows Linger has to do with the
>>murder of the second moneylender.  The waitress (Lisa) was tough as
>>nails in theory - willing and able to do whatever it took to get out
>>of the wretched life she lived.  Let's kill the moneylender and maybe
>>some homeless folk this winter - in theory there was nothing she
>>wouldn't do.
>>
>>In theory - but the first murder she was involved in shook her to the
>>bone.  OK, the circumstances of that killing were bad for her but even
>>if it had happened the way she'd planned I think the reality of death,
>>of murder, would have made an impression.  She'd thought she was ready
>>to do anything but death shook her - because she was just a normal
>>person in a bad situation.  She wasn't a blackhearted villian, just
>>someone who didn't want to die poor.
>>
>>When normal people are the characters it's easy to fit inside their
>>skin
>>- which makes the book more plausible, more real.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>======================================================================
>>=
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>
>
>
>=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,  visit
><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>



=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,  visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:49:25 -0700
From: Sam Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook - DARKWAR SPOILERS

I finally got off my butt and procured some of his non-BC and Garrett books
in the form of the Darkwar trilogy and granted, I'm only most of the way
through the second novel, but it seems to me that Marika is that sort of
character as well.  We start with her as a "pup" and see how the destruction
of her packstead starts her on the road to becoming something that is so far
not quite a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath, but not too far off
either.  I just finished reading about the bloody vengeance she wreaked upon
the meth who destroyed Maksche and the way she murdered her mentor and I'm
amazed that I still sort of like her.  I think it's because we get to follow
her from her days as a pup and witness first hand the circumstances that
make her what she is.  Just another example of how Glen Cook writes in
shades of gray rather than absolutes.

Sam

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Llaneza [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook


Cook asks a unique question in several of his books. What turned a happy
smiling child into a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath ? This comes
up in the BC books, Dread Empire novels, and in Swordbearer.

It's a psychological insight very few authors have. I'd like to see him
trace a protagonist from childhood to the darkside. And I'll bet he
outdoes Lucas.

Lawrence Jenab wrote:

>I really agree with that, Richard.  Oddly enough, Cook's fantasy books
>have more genuine human nature in them than a dozen books of the
>supposed "psychological realism" school.
>
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Chilton" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:32 PM
>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook
>
>
>>A Turner wrote:
>>
>>>SPOILERS (Shadows Linger)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I certainly haven't seen another fantasy writer who manages to change
>>>
>both
>
>>>form and characterization of the people narrating like Glen does in
>>>the
>>>
>BC
>
>>>series. I'm just rereading Shadows Linger, and right from the start
>>>of
>>>
>the
>
>>>second book you can see people changing. Raven becomes as morally
>>>black
>>>
>as
>
>>>the Dominator and his creatures, all in order to protect Darling,
>>>while Croaker and co. start to question what they're doing more and
>>>more, even though they keep on doing it (until the end that is). I
>>>don't think you could get that broader moral perspective in the
>>>straight first person narration of the original book - you really
>>>need to look at characters
>>>
>like
>
>>>Marron Shed and Asa in their grubby surroundings in order to
>>>understand
>>>
>why
>
>>>they act like they do.
>>>
>>I think one of the best parts of Cook's writings is he uses normal
>>people.  His characters aren't the "I'll never fail" heroes, the
>>souless villians, nor any other stock characters but normal people.
>>
>>One of my favorite scenes from Shadows Linger has to do with the
>>murder of the second moneylender.  The waitress (Lisa) was tough as
>>nails in theory - willing and able to do whatever it took to get out
>>of the wretched life she lived.  Let's kill the moneylender and maybe
>>some homeless folk this winter - in theory there was nothing she
>>wouldn't do.
>>
>>In theory - but the first murder she was involved in shook her to the
>>bone.  OK, the circumstances of that killing were bad for her but even
>>if it had happened the way she'd planned I think the reality of death,
>>of murder, would have made an impression.  She'd thought she was ready
>>to do anything but death shook her - because she was just a normal
>>person in a bad situation.  She wasn't a blackhearted villian, just
>>someone who didn't want to die poor.
>>
>>When normal people are the characters it's easy to fit inside their
>>skin
>>- which makes the book more plausible, more real.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>======================================================================
>>=
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>
>
>
>=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,  visit
><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>



=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,  visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:49:25 -0700
From: Sam Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook - DARKWAR SPOILERS

I finally got off my butt and procured some of his non-BC and Garrett books
in the form of the Darkwar trilogy and granted, I'm only most of the way
through the second novel, but it seems to me that Marika is that sort of
character as well.  We start with her as a "pup" and see how the destruction
of her packstead starts her on the road to becoming something that is so far
not quite a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath, but not too far off
either.  I just finished reading about the bloody vengeance she wreaked upon
the meth who destroyed Maksche and the way she murdered her mentor and I'm
amazed that I still sort of like her.  I think it's because we get to follow
her from her days as a pup and witness first hand the circumstances that
make her what she is.  Just another example of how Glen Cook writes in
shades of gray rather than absolutes.

Sam

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Llaneza [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook


Cook asks a unique question in several of his books. What turned a happy
smiling child into a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath ? This comes
up in the BC books, Dread Empire novels, and in Swordbearer.

It's a psychological insight very few authors have. I'd like to see him
trace a protagonist from childhood to the darkside. And I'll bet he
outdoes Lucas.

Lawrence Jenab wrote:

>I really agree with that, Richard.  Oddly enough, Cook's fantasy books
>have more genuine human nature in them than a dozen books of the
>supposed "psychological realism" school.
>
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Chilton" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:32 PM
>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook
>
>
>>A Turner wrote:
>>
>>>SPOILERS (Shadows Linger)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I certainly haven't seen another fantasy writer who manages to change
>>>
>both
>
>>>form and characterization of the people narrating like Glen does in
>>>the
>>>
>BC
>
>>>series. I'm just rereading Shadows Linger, and right from the start
>>>of
>>>
>the
>
>>>second book you can see people changing. Raven becomes as morally
>>>black
>>>
>as
>
>>>the Dominator and his creatures, all in order to protect Darling,
>>>while Croaker and co. start to question what they're doing more and
>>>more, even though they keep on doing it (until the end that is). I
>>>don't think you could get that broader moral perspective in the
>>>straight first person narration of the original book - you really
>>>need to look at characters
>>>
>like
>
>>>Marron Shed and Asa in their grubby surroundings in order to
>>>understand
>>>
>why
>
>>>they act like they do.
>>>
>>I think one of the best parts of Cook's writings is he uses normal
>>people.  His characters aren't the "I'll never fail" heroes, the
>>souless villians, nor any other stock characters but normal people.
>>
>>One of my favorite scenes from Shadows Linger has to do with the
>>murder of the second moneylender.  The waitress (Lisa) was tough as
>>nails in theory - willing and able to do whatever it took to get out
>>of the wretched life she lived.  Let's kill the moneylender and maybe
>>some homeless folk this winter - in theory there was nothing she
>>wouldn't do.
>>
>>In theory - but the first murder she was involved in shook her to the
>>bone.  OK, the circumstances of that killing were bad for her but even
>>if it had happened the way she'd planned I think the reality of death,
>>of murder, would have made an impression.  She'd thought she was ready
>>to do anything but death shook her - because she was just a normal
>>person in a bad situation.  She wasn't a blackhearted villian, just
>>someone who didn't want to die poor.
>>
>>When normal people are the characters it's easy to fit inside their
>>skin
>>- which makes the book more plausible, more real.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>======================================================================
>>=
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>
>
>
>=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,  visit
><http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>



=======================================================================
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<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=======================================================================
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=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=======================================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:30:19 -0800
From: Michael Llaneza <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III

both of you take this off-list right now

I'm talking to PrimalChrome and Craig Dutton primarily, but I'd like to
head off a flamewar - this list doesn't have enough traffic to support a
flamewar.

PrimalChrome wrote:

>Sorry, you demonstrated nothing more than a piss-poor attempt at being an
>annoyance.
>
>An apt comparison to your 'extreme example' would be my saying that I do not
>enjoy opera.  Then in order to demonstrate what I do not like about opera I
>would have a five year old sing his favorite barney song for a few hours at
>the top of her lungs.  There is no comparison, it is only a infantile
>attempt at gathering attention to one's self.
>
>The probable reason you find epic tales to be 'displeasing' or 'annoying' is
>because you're a classic example of the spoon-fed television programmed
>american.  Your patience and ability to absorb is limited to the now of
>immediate gratification rather than any kind of ability or desire to
>appreciate something of any real length or worth.
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:09 PM
>Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>
>
>>You express displeasure at my unitary narrative broken up into three
>>parts--so do I. We are in agreement. Just thought I'd create  an extreme
>>example to demonstrate precisely WHY they're so annoying. Thank you for
>>demonstrating my point.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: PrimalChrome [mailto:[e-mail]]
>>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:01 AM
>>To: [e-mail]
>>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>>
>>
>>This is a childish comparison as you well know.  Please keep such bullshit
>>posts to your Harry Potter mailing list.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
>>To: <[e-mail]>
>>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:36 AM
>>Subject: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>>
>>
>>>Those of you in the 'one stories, three parts' school will no doubt see
>>>nothing unusual in this message; to those of you who, like me, want each
>>>work to stand alone,   I apologise.
>>>
>>
>>
>>=======================================================================
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>>=======================================================================
>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>
>
>
>=======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>



=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:31:27 -0800
From: Michael Llaneza <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook - DARKWAR SPOILERS

Now that you mention it, that must be why I like the Darkwar series so
much. Besides interesting non-human protagonists and a deliciously dark
flavor to the whole series.

Sam Roberts wrote:

>I finally got off my butt and procured some of his non-BC and Garrett books
>in the form of the Darkwar trilogy and granted, I'm only most of the way
>through the second novel, but it seems to me that Marika is that sort of
>character as well.  We start with her as a "pup" and see how the destruction
>of her packstead starts her on the road to becoming something that is so far
>not quite a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath, but not too far off
>either.  I just finished reading about the bloody vengeance she wreaked upon
>the meth who destroyed Maksche and the way she murdered her mentor and I'm
>amazed that I still sort of like her.  I think it's because we get to follow
>her from her days as a pup and witness first hand the circumstances that
>make her what she is.  Just another example of how Glen Cook writes in
>shades of gray rather than absolutes.
>
>Sam
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Llaneza [mailto:[e-mail]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:07 PM
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook
>
>
>Cook asks a unique question in several of his books. What turned a happy
>smiling child into a destructive megalomaniacal psychopath ? This comes
>up in the BC books, Dread Empire novels, and in Swordbearer.
>
>It's a psychological insight very few authors have. I'd like to see him
>trace a protagonist from childhood to the darkside. And I'll bet he
>outdoes Lucas.
>
>Lawrence Jenab wrote:
>
>>I really agree with that, Richard.  Oddly enough, Cook's fantasy books
>>have more genuine human nature in them than a dozen books of the
>>supposed "psychological realism" school.
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Chilton" <[e-mail]>
>>To: <[e-mail]>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:32 PM
>>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) David Drake <--> Glen Cook
>>
>>
>>>A Turner wrote:
>>>
>>>>SPOILERS (Shadows Linger)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I certainly haven't seen another fantasy writer who manages to change
>>>>
>>both
>>
>>>>form and characterization of the people narrating like Glen does in
>>>>the
>>>>
>>BC
>>
>>>>series. I'm just rereading Shadows Linger, and right from the start
>>>>of
>>>>
>>the
>>
>>>>second book you can see people changing. Raven becomes as morally
>>>>black
>>>>
>>as
>>
>>>>the Dominator and his creatures, all in order to protect Darling,
>>>>while Croaker and co. start to question what they're doing more and
>>>>more, even though they keep on doing it (until the end that is). I
>>>>don't think you could get that broader moral perspective in the
>>>>straight first person narration of the original book - you really
>>>>need to look at characters
>>>>
>>like
>>
>>>>Marron Shed and Asa in their grubby surroundings in order to
>>>>understand
>>>>
>>why
>>
>>>>they act like they do.
>>>>
>>>I think one of the best parts of Cook's writings is he uses normal
>>>people.  His characters aren't the "I'll never fail" heroes, the
>>>souless villians, nor any other stock characters but normal people.
>>>
>>>One of my favorite scenes from Shadows Linger has to do with the
>>>murder of the second moneylender.  The waitress (Lisa) was tough as
>>>nails in theory - willing and able to do whatever it took to get out
>>>of the wretched life she lived.  Let's kill the moneylender and maybe
>>>some homeless folk this winter - in theory there was nothing she
>>>wouldn't do.
>>>
>>>In theory - but the first murder she was involved in shook her to the
>>>bone.  OK, the circumstances of that killing were bad for her but even
>>>if it had happened the way she'd planned I think the reality of death,
>>>of murder, would have made an impression.  She'd thought she was ready
>>>to do anything but death shook her - because she was just a normal
>>>person in a bad situation.  She wasn't a blackhearted villian, just
>>>someone who didn't want to die poor.
>>>
>>>When normal people are the characters it's easy to fit inside their
>>>skin
>>>- which makes the book more plausible, more real.
>>>
>>>Richard
>>>
>>>======================================================================
>>>=
>>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>>>visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:13:28 -0600
From: "PrimalChrome" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III

Keep in mind that with a comment like that it looks more like you're trying
to antagonize a flame war rather than head one off.

But in theory you're right....it's not worth the bandwith....



- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Llaneza" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III


> both of you take this off-list right now
>
> I'm talking to PrimalChrome and Craig Dutton primarily, but I'd like to
> head off a flamewar - this list doesn't have enough traffic to support a
> flamewar.
>


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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 11:28:56 -0800
From: Michael Llaneza <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III

thanks

PrimalChrome wrote:

>Keep in mind that with a comment like that it looks more like you're trying
>to antagonize a flame war rather than head one off.
>
>But in theory you're right....it's not worth the bandwith....
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Llaneza" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:30 PM
>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) trilogies III
>
>
>>both of you take this off-list right now
>>
>>I'm talking to PrimalChrome and Craig Dutton primarily, but I'd like to
>>head off a flamewar - this list doesn't have enough traffic to support a
>>flamewar.
>>
>
>
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>



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End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #164
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