ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / glencook-fans / archive / v01.n154 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 2002-01-16 | 37KB

From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest) To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #154 Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk glencook-fans-digest Thursday, January 17 2002 Volume 01 : Number 154 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:08:48 -0800 From: malik coates <malikcoates@flashmail.com> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company "Tower of Fear" is one of my favorite GC books. It's a study of characters and motivations. It's like a "Man in High Castle" of dark fantasy. Each character has a distinct motivation driving his actions and the book just follows thier interaction. I love how mighty fighters can be brought low by simple people and how each character is so true to himself. I also love the last few Dread Empire books for similiar reasons. Igor Filippov wrote: >"Passage at arms" is absolutely astonishing. >Darkwar books are interesting, but not on the level of BC imho. >I didn't like "Tower of Fear" - re-read it just last month to see if I >missed anything that other people enjoyed it so much, but couldn't find >anything worth mentioning about that book, except the feeling of >extensive boredoom. > >Igor > > > >On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Troy Lefman wrote: > >>I realize the Black Company is awesome and the series brought me to Glen Cook, >>but does anyone read anything but BC and Garrett? Glen has many other great >>stories and some can be had for original price (when books cost less than $2). >> >>"Dr. Elmo" wrote: >> >>>Steve Harris wondered aloud to the group: >>> >Glen plans one more book in the Black Company, according to the last >>> >time I saw him (October, at Archon), but he has many committments before >>> >then, including a fantasy trilogy (of the "Song of Ice and Fire" mode). >>> >>>Oh, good. Because the world really needs another Giant Fantasy Trilogy. >>> >>>Hopefully, he'll be able to bring the same individuality to it that made >>>the Black Company stand out. >>>-- >>>"The net, like real life, is loaded to the gills with people who have the >>>self-awareness of onions and such ability to critically evaluate their own >>>thoughts as might be found among the tube-worms."--Frothing-at-the-Mouth Lad >>> >>>Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/ >>>Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html >>> >>>======================================================================= >>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, >>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. >>> >> >>======================================================================= >> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, >> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. >> > > >======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:14:49 -0500 (EST) From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company I'm not sure about "characters and motivations" - the only character that actually exhibits interesting and active personality is Farhad (if I spell the name correctly) - the head of the mercenaries. The rest of them are just going with the flow. Neither "living" nor occupants, not even the Witch, ever do anything that is more than just waiting or some minute daily business. The whole book leaves impression of exactly that - waiting. And after all the waiting the ending is rather anti-climatic. Igor On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, malik coates wrote: > "Tower of Fear" is one of my favorite GC books. It's a study of > characters and motivations. It's like a "Man in High Castle" of dark > fantasy. Each character has a distinct motivation driving his actions > and the book just follows thier interaction. I love how mighty fighters > can be brought low by simple people and how each character is so true to > himself. > > I also love the last few Dread Empire books for similiar reasons. > > Igor Filippov wrote: > > >"Passage at arms" is absolutely astonishing. > >Darkwar books are interesting, but not on the level of BC imho. > >I didn't like "Tower of Fear" - re-read it just last month to see if I > >missed anything that other people enjoyed it so much, but couldn't find > >anything worth mentioning about that book, except the feeling of > >extensive boredoom. > > > >Igor > > > > > > > >On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Troy Lefman wrote: > > > >>I realize the Black Company is awesome and the series brought me to Glen Cook, > >>but does anyone read anything but BC and Garrett? Glen has many other great > >>stories and some can be had for original price (when books cost less than $2). > >> > >>"Dr. Elmo" wrote: > >> > >>>Steve Harris wondered aloud to the group: > >>> >Glen plans one more book in the Black Company, according to the last > >>> >time I saw him (October, at Archon), but he has many committments before > >>> >then, including a fantasy trilogy (of the "Song of Ice and Fire" mode). > >>> > >>>Oh, good. Because the world really needs another Giant Fantasy Trilogy. > >>> > >>>Hopefully, he'll be able to bring the same individuality to it that made > >>>the Black Company stand out. > >>>-- > >>>"The net, like real life, is loaded to the gills with people who have the > >>>self-awareness of onions and such ability to critically evaluate their own > >>>thoughts as might be found among the tube-worms."--Frothing-at-the-Mouth Lad > >>> > >>>Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/ > >>>Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html > >>> > >>>======================================================================= > >>> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > >>> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > >>> > >> > >>======================================================================= > >> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > >> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > >> > > > > > >======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:39:04 -0600 From: Steve Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company Igor, What I find special about "Tower of Fear" is the way that all sides in a multi-sided conflict are made to appear justifiable--there are *no* black hats around (even the "evil" sorcerer who made the Tower of Fear had his good points). Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:49:42 -0800 From: malik coates <malikcoates@flashmail.com> Subject: (glencook-fans) Tower Of Fear - ------------------ MINOR SPOILERS FOR TOWER OF FEAR - --------------------------------------------- I understand your point of view. I felt that most of the characters had actively created plans for the future. Where you saw all the characters just waiting, I saw each characters as watching a plan come to fruitition and dealing with the consequences when two plans crossed paths. Each plan was grounded in the events before the book and had a real motivation. The endings for most of the plans were outside of the scope of the book proper. The reason every character seems good is that when you look at the motivations... every character is motivated by love. Either love of a woman, family, an ideal, or country. The book is much more enjoyable when you try to figure out what it is that each character is in love with. The epilogs were also great in that they showed what the result of each love was and what characters achieved happy lives. It could be seen as anti-climatic, but this really was complicated character study and a simpler ending would have ruined the entire book. Igor Filippov wrote: >I'm not sure about "characters and motivations" - the only character that >actually exhibits interesting and active personality is Farhad (if I >spell the name correctly) - the head of the mercenaries. The rest of them >are just going with the flow. Neither "living" nor occupants, not even the >Witch, ever do anything that is more than just waiting or some minute >daily business. The whole book leaves impression of exactly that - >waiting. And after all the waiting the ending is rather anti-climatic. > >Igor > > >On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, malik coates wrote: > >>"Tower of Fear" is one of my favorite GC books. It's a study of >>characters and motivations. It's like a "Man in High Castle" of dark >>fantasy. Each character has a distinct motivation driving his actions >>and the book just follows thier interaction. I love how mighty fighters >>can be brought low by simple people and how each character is so true to >>himself. >> >>I also love the last few Dread Empire books for similiar reasons. >> >>Igor Filippov wrote: >> >>>"Passage at arms" is absolutely astonishing. >>>Darkwar books are interesting, but not on the level of BC imho. >>>I didn't like "Tower of Fear" - re-read it just last month to see if I >>>missed anything that other people enjoyed it so much, but couldn't find >>>anything worth mentioning about that book, except the feeling of >>>extensive boredoom. >>> >>>Igor >>> >>> >>> >>>On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Troy Lefman wrote: >>> >>>>I realize the Black Company is awesome and the series brought me to Glen Cook, >>>>but does anyone read anything but BC and Garrett? Glen has many other great >>>>stories and some can be had for original price (when books cost less than $2). >>>> >>>>"Dr. Elmo" wrote: >>>> >>>>>Steve Harris wondered aloud to the group: >>>>> >>>>>>Glen plans one more book in the Black Company, according to the last >>>>>>time I saw him (October, at Archon), but he has many committments before >>>>>>then, including a fantasy trilogy (of the "Song of Ice and Fire" mode). >>>>>> >>>>>Oh, good. Because the world really needs another Giant Fantasy Trilogy. >>>>> >>>>>Hopefully, he'll be able to bring the same individuality to it that made >>>>>the Black Company stand out. >>>>>-- >>>>>"The net, like real life, is loaded to the gills with people who have the >>>>>self-awareness of onions and such ability to critically evaluate their own >>>>>thoughts as might be found among the tube-worms."--Frothing-at-the-Mouth Lad >>>>> >>>>>Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/ >>>>>Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html >>>>> >>>>>======================================================================= >>>>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, >>>>>visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. >>>>> >>>>======================================================================= >>>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, >>>>visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. >>>> >>> >>>======================================================================= >>>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, >>>visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. >>> >>> >> >> >> >>======================================================================= >> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, >> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. >> > > >======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:47:02 -0600 From: "Lawrence Jenab" <ljenab@sunflower.com> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company This post has inspired some of the best discussion in a while--it amazes me how many different kinds of books Glen has written, and the degree to which they appeal differently even to his "hardest core" fans. Has there been a thread (I'm sure there has . . .) about what it is, essentially, that we all respond to in his books? People have pointed out that, in some ways, they can be viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully written, but they sure keep us coming back for more. My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats the reader or wastes his/her time. I have trouble finding a sentence in his novels that doesn't need to be there (some throwaway lines in Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett). As short as they often are, they are splitting at the seams with plot. This kind of efficient writing takes real discipline, and it feels (I'm reaching for a word here) "courteous" to me. I like that every page gets me somewhere. I read an interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said that the most important thing he learned as a writer was how not to condescend to the reader--how to leave things out and refrain from over-explaining. I think Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough edges) because he is a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to be filled in by the reader. He rarely says too much, and his worlds cohere because it's my creative impulse as much as his that's keeping it all together. Some other fantasy writers overdescribe so much that the worldbuilding gets in the way of the reader. It also becomes sort of tyrannical--there's nothing left to my imagination, and I'm just a passive spectator. Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't it? Interested in what the group thinks, and sorry if this has been beaten to death when I wasn't paying attention. I've wanted to bring this up for a long time, but never had time to put my thoughts into words. Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas J Thalasinos" <thalpres@bellatlantic.net> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Company > Does anyone know if Glen Cook plans any other books in the Black Company > series? > > Nicholas > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:44:01 -0600 From: Steve Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company Larry, What I think I like most in Glen's writing is his honesty in approach both to characters and plot--warts where there ought to be warts, in the context he's set up, and plot complications from the given environment, as they are mandated by the context. (Well, Garrett books not the same--he plays fast and loose with character and plot requirements there.) This makes characters and plot organically a part of the environment, appropriately reacting to what is out there. Hence, the "gritty" feel to the BC (what makes it "fantasy-noir"); hence, the realistic motivations in "Tower of Fear"; hence, the feel of honest engagement in "Passage at Arms"; hence the feel or realistic Realpolitik in the "Dread Empire" series (well, the last ones, with Ragnar). Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:57:47 -0600 From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net> Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Black Company One book I have not heard mentioned (and it is worthy of mention) is The Heirs of Babylon. I know it is obscure and it is very early work, but I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Has anyone else read it? Beside Eric, I mean. - -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Jenab Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:47 PM To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company This post has inspired some of the best discussion in a while--it amazes me how many different kinds of books Glen has written, and the degree to which they appeal differently even to his "hardest core" fans. Has there been a thread (I'm sure there has . . .) about what it is, essentially, that we all respond to in his books? People have pointed out that, in some ways, they can be viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully written, but they sure keep us coming back for more. My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats the reader or wastes his/her time. I have trouble finding a sentence in his novels that doesn't need to be there (some throwaway lines in Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett). As short as they often are, they are splitting at the seams with plot. This kind of efficient writing takes real discipline, and it feels (I'm reaching for a word here) "courteous" to me. I like that every page gets me somewhere. I read an interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said that the most important thing he learned as a writer was how not to condescend to the reader--how to leave things out and refrain from over-explaining. I think Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough edges) because he is a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to be filled in by the reader. He rarely says too much, and his worlds cohere because it's my creative impulse as much as his that's keeping it all together. Some other fantasy writers overdescribe so much that the worldbuilding gets in the way of the reader. It also becomes sort of tyrannical--there's nothing left to my imagination, and I'm just a passive spectator. Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't it? Interested in what the group thinks, and sorry if this has been beaten to death when I wasn't paying attention. I've wanted to bring this up for a long time, but never had time to put my thoughts into words. Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas J Thalasinos" <thalpres@bellatlantic.net> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Company > Does anyone know if Glen Cook plans any other books in the Black Company > series? > > Nicholas > > > > ======================================================== =============== > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================== =============== To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 07:51:09 -0600 From: "Chad Wicker" <cwicker@petrocom.com> Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Black Company This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. - --=_80DD8C75.86E78B98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I read The Heirs of Babylon and enjoyed it. It is very different than his = other works I have read. It is obviously rough around the edges, typical = of early works. It was worth reading as a Glen Cook fan in seeing the = development of the Author. =20 Chad C. Wicker =20 Chad C. Wicker Systems Engineer Petrocom >>> d.s.george@verizon.net 01/09/02 06:57PM >>> One book I have not heard mentioned (and it is worthy of=20 mention) is The Heirs of Babylon. I know it is obscure and=20 it is very early work, but I was surprised at how much I=20 enjoyed it. Has anyone else read it? Beside Eric, I mean. - -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Jenab Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:47 PM To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com=20 Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company This post has inspired some of the best discussion in a=20 while--it amazes me how many different kinds of books Glen has written, and the=20 degree to which they appeal differently even to his "hardest core" fans.=20 Has there been a thread (I'm sure there has . . .) about what it is,=20 essentially, that we all respond to in his books? People have pointed out that, in=20 some ways, they can be viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully=20 written, but they sure keep us coming back for more. My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats the reader or wastes=20 his/her time. I have trouble finding a sentence in his novels that doesn't=20 need to be there (some throwaway lines in Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett).=20 As short as they often are, they are splitting at the seams with plot.=20 This kind of efficient writing takes real discipline, and it feels (I'm=20 reaching for a word here) "courteous" to me. I like that every page gets=20 me somewhere. I read an interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said=20 that the most important thing he learned as a writer was how not to=20 condescend to the reader--how to leave things out and refrain from=20 over-explaining. I think Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough=20 edges) because he is a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to be=20 filled in by the reader. He rarely says too much, and his worlds cohere=20 because it's my creative impulse as much as his that's keeping it all=20 together. Some other fantasy writers overdescribe so much that the worldbuilding=20 gets in the way of the reader. It also becomes sort of tyrannical--there's=20 nothing left to my imagination, and I'm just a passive spectator. Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't it? Interested in what=20 the group thinks, and sorry if this has been beaten to death when I=20 wasn't paying attention. I've wanted to bring this up for a long time,=20 but never had time to put my thoughts into words. Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas J Thalasinos" <thalpres@bellatlantic.net> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Company > Does anyone know if Glen Cook plans any other books in=20 the Black Company > series? > > Nicholas > > > >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of=20 this list, > visit=20 <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this=20 list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. - --=_80DD8C75.86E78B98 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"= > <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt Tahoma; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>I read The Heirs of Babylon and enjoyed it. It = is very=20 different than his other works I have read. It is obviously rough = around=20 the edges, typical of early works. It was worth reading as a Glen = Cook fan=20 in seeing the development of the Author.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chad C. Wicker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chad C. Wicker Systems Engineer Petrocom</= DIV> <DIV> >>> d.s.george@verizon.net 01/09/02 06:57PM=20 >>> One book I have not heard mentioned (and it is worthy = of=20 mention) is The Heirs of Babylon. I know it is obscure and = it is=20 very early work, but I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. = Has=20 anyone else read it? Beside Eric, I mean. -----Original=20 Message----- From: Lawrence=20 Jenab Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:47=20 PM To: =20 glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re:=20 (glencook-fans) Black Company This post has inspired some of the = best=20 discussion in a while--it amazes me how many different kinds of = books=20 Glen has written, and the degree to which they appeal differently = even to=20 his "hardest core" fans. Has there been a thread (I'm sure there = has . .=20 .) about what it is, essentially, that we all respond to in his=20 books? People have pointed out that, in some ways, they can = be=20 viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully written, but they su= re=20 keep us coming back for more. My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats = the=20 reader or wastes his/her time. I have trouble finding a = sentence in=20 his novels that doesn't need to be there (some throwaway lines = in=20 Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett). As short as they often are, they = are=20 splitting at the seams with plot. This kind of efficient writing = takes=20 real discipline, and it feels (I'm reaching for a word here) = "courteous"=20 to me. I like that every page gets me somewhere. I read = an=20 interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said that the most importan= t=20 thing he learned as a writer was how not to condescend to the reader= - --how=20 to leave things out and refrain from over-explaining. I=20 think Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough edges)= =20 because he is a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to = be=20 filled in by the reader. He rarely says too much, and his = worlds=20 cohere because it's my creative impulse as much as his that's = keeping it=20 all together. Some other fantasy writers overdescribe so much = that=20 the worldbuilding gets in the way of the reader. It also = becomes=20 sort of tyrannical--there's nothing left to my imagination, and I'm = just=20 a passive spectator. Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't = it? =20 Interested in what the group thinks, and sorry if this has been = beaten to=20 death when I wasn't paying attention. I've wanted to bring this up = for a=20 long time, but never had time to put my thoughts into=20 words. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas = J=20 Thalasinos" <thalpres@bellatlantic.net> To:=20 <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, = 2002 4:28=20 PM Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Company > Does anyone = know if=20 Glen Cook plans any other books in the Black Company >=20 series? > > Nicholas > > > >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > To = unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the=20 archives of this list, > visit <<A=20 href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html">http://www.xmiss= ion.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</A>>. > =3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To unsubscribe, = subscribe, or access the archives of this=20 list, visit <<A=20 href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html">http://www.xmiss= ion.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</A>>. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To=20 unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit = <<A=20 href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html">http://www.xmiss= ion.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</A>>. </DIV></BODY></HTML> - --=_80DD8C75.86E78B98-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:06:25 +0000 From: Troy Lefman <tslefman@ctcis.net> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company I'm still hunting a copy of that work. David George wrote: > One book I have not heard mentioned (and it is worthy of > mention) is The Heirs of Babylon. I know it is obscure and > it is very early work, but I was surprised at how much I > enjoyed it. Has anyone else read it? Beside Eric, I mean. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Jenab > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:47 PM > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company > > This post has inspired some of the best discussion in a > while--it amazes me > how many different kinds of books Glen has written, and the > degree to which > they appeal differently even to his "hardest core" fans. > Has there been a > thread (I'm sure there has . . .) about what it is, > essentially, that we all > respond to in his books? People have pointed out that, in > some ways, they > can be viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully > written, but they > sure keep us coming back for more. > > My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats the reader or wastes > his/her time. I > have trouble finding a sentence in his novels that doesn't > need to be there > (some throwaway lines in Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett). > As short as > they often are, they are splitting at the seams with plot. > This kind of > efficient writing takes real discipline, and it feels (I'm > reaching for a > word here) "courteous" to me. I like that every page gets > me somewhere. > > I read an interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said > that the most > important thing he learned as a writer was how not to > condescend to the > reader--how to leave things out and refrain from > over-explaining. I think > Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough > edges) because he is > a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to be > filled in by the > reader. He rarely says too much, and his worlds cohere > because it's my > creative impulse as much as his that's keeping it all > together. Some other > fantasy writers overdescribe so much that the worldbuilding > gets in the way > of the reader. It also becomes sort of tyrannical--there's > nothing left to > my imagination, and I'm just a passive spectator. > > Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't it? Interested in what > the group > thinks, and sorry if this has been beaten to death when I > wasn't paying > attention. I've wanted to bring this up for a long time, > but never had time > to put my thoughts into words. > > Larry > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:29:42 -0400 From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company malik coates wrote: > > "Tower of Fear" is one of my favorite GC books. It's a study of > characters and motivations. It's like a "Man in High Castle" of dark > fantasy. Each character has a distinct motivation driving his actions > and the book just follows thier interaction. I love how mighty fighters > can be brought low by simple people and how each character is so true to > himself. > Just my opinion, but this is one of his better non-black company books. Not only does it have a wonderful take on reincarnation but there are two epilogues - one that tells you about the fates of the characters and one that describes what happens with the world. While this ruled out any sequels I enjoyed the lack of loose ends. The end of this book is a major contrast to his _Sword Bearer_ - a book that cries out for sequels that will probably never be written. While I've found a few of his books less enjoyable than others Cook remains at the head of my mental "it's a new book! buy it without reading the back in case the blurb gives something away" list. If memory serves he's lasted the longest on that list as other authors come (when I discover a very good one) and go (when I hit one to many clunkers from an author). Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:29:50 -0800 (PST) From: Fraser Ronald <stelm7@yahoo.com> Subject: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap For those of you in Canada, I just picked up a hardcover of "Water Sleeps" at Chapters for 5.99 (plus tax, of course!). I rarely buy hardcovers, so it was a great opportunity for me. This is the first hardcover Glen Cook novel I own. You might also be able to order it online for the same price, but if you are near a Chapters, go check it out. Fraser __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #154 *********************************** ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.