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<DIV>I'm interested in how Green Ronin handles the map. Afterall, it is based on Europe and Africa. <BR><BR><B><I>Eight Ball <viriiguy@hotmail.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>I had wanted to create an Online RPG based on Ultima Online that would be <BR>free to play based on The Black Company. But I was unable to find anyone who <BR>was interested. So without any help the feat is just to large to take on. <BR>And if I ever come across a crew of 10 or 15 people with various skills, <BR>rangeing from world building to storyline plotting and devolopment, I will <BR>do it. As I have the basic shape of the map already designed.<BR><BR>Randy Walker<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* <BR>http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca<BR><BR><BR>=======================================================================<BR>To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
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--- Steve Harris wrote: > Axe,> > Well, the problem with the D20 system is you don't> get to make something> Really Wonderful simply by working on it for years. > > It's not inherently impossible to do this in the D20> system; it's just> that it seems counter to the general philosophy of> standardization of> magic, so that everyone pretty much knows what's> possible to build and> what isn't.> From what Chris Pramas (the head guy at Green Ronin) has said, one of the major alterations is going to be the magic system. i won't say I have faith that this will be great, but I'm not terrified that they're going to brutalize it.I actually hope that they go with a fantasy version of d20 Modern which--in my opinion--is a more adaptable system than simple Dungeons and Dragons (or d20).
Fraser Ronald
Sword's Edge
Writer: Blood & Guts: In Her Majesty's Service
Contributing Writer: Gnomes: Masters of Illusion available at http://www.rpgnow.com/
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--- Steve Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> wrote: > Axe,
>
> Well, the problem with the D20 system is you don't
> get to make something
> Really Wonderful simply by working on it for years.
<snipping a very well-reasoned and correct arguement>
>
> It's not inherently impossible to do this in the D20
> system; it's just
> that it seems counter to the general philosophy of
> standardization of
> magic, so that everyone pretty much knows what's
> possible to build and
> what isn't.
>
From what Chris Pramas (the head guy at Green Ronin) has said, one of the major alterations is going to be the magic system. i won't say I have faith that this will be great, but I'm not terrified that they're going to brutalize it.
I actually hope that they go with a fantasy version of d20 Modern which--in my opinion--is a more adaptable system than simple Dungeons and Dragons (or d20).<BR><BR>Fraser Ronald <br>
Writer: <a href="http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?page=pro&product_id=39&"><i>Blood & Guts: In Her Majesty's Service</i></a><br>
Contributing Writer: <i>Gnomes: Masters of Illusion</i> available at <a href="http://www.rpgnow.com/">http://www.rpgnow.com/</a><p><hr size=1><font face="Arial" size="2"> <a href="http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_messenger/*http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com"><b>
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<<Spells might be rare because there are no Magic Colleges (something ive always had a distaste for) and spells have to be researched, or traded (which was how I was introduced to spell casting when i first started playing in 78) - ala Silent casting the spell he was taught in book 2.>>
I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game.
Not sure how many of you play any of the World of Darkness games, but I borrowed part of that game for my 1st edition AD&D game some time back.
In WoD, your experience points can be spent to learn new knowledges, powers, or to improve your physical, mental, or social traits. In AD&D these types of things are very limited and/or difficult to change. I thought the WoD system was good, so in my game, in addition to experience points for levels, players gain a small number of points they can spent to learn things, improve their ratings (strength, intelligence, and so on), learn things like proficiencies and languages, and so on. It really spices up the game, and goes a long way towards breaking the boring mold of 'fighter', 'magic user', 'cleric', etc.
Another interesting point about magic in BC is how it manifests itself. Remember in Shadows Linger, when Silent is throwing spells at the Black Castle, they look entirely different than those thrown by Lady...even though she taught him the spell. If I remember correctly, one looked like soap bubbles, the other like "a line scribbled by a child"
Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/27/04 2:08:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDMohney@aol.com writes:
I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game.
Pete
i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were traded for other spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gotten Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I remember whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold!
I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone....
Axemaster 65 Cleric
Lilaxe 65 Warrior
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<DIV>Another interesting point about magic in BC is how it manifests itself. Remember in Shadows Linger, when Silent is throwing spells at the Black Castle, they look entirely different than those thrown by Lady...even though she taught him the spell. If I remember correctly, one looked like soap bubbles, the other like "a line scribbled by a child"<BR><BR><B><I>Axemaster2001@aol.com</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Verdana size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 1/27/04 2:08:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDMohney@aol.com writes:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE"></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" BACK="#ffffff"><BR>I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game.<BR><BR>Pete<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Verdana color=#000000 size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" BACK="#ffffff"><BR>i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were traded for other
spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gotten Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I remember whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold!<BR><BR>I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone....<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Trebuchet MS" color=#000000 size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" BACK="#ffffff"><BR><A href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster</A> 65 Cleric<BR><A href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe</A> 65 Warrior<BR>
Um...those may not have been the same spell though. It stands to reason
that Silent wouldn't be able to handle the more powerful spells since he
didn't have the skill that Lady had.
Figure it this way...One Eye explained that a minor magician can do the
same thing a powerful one can do, it just takes a lot longer. So if Silent
had been casting the same spell as Lady then it would have taken him much
longer to prep the spell. We saw this a lot when Goblin was preparing
spells way ahead of time to lay in wait for One Eye (the ropes he
enchanted during the journey south). Lady in her prime could have
enchanted those same ropes in a fraction of the time.
-Matthew
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Win Barker wrote:
> Another interesting point about magic in BC is how it manifests itself. Remember in Shadows Linger, when Silent is throwing spells at the Black Castle, they look entirely different than those thrown by Lady...even though she taught him the spell. If I remember correctly, one looked like soap bubbles, the other like "a line scribbled by a child"
>
> Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/27/04 2:08:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PDMohney@aol.com writes:
>
>
> I ran into that same situation in my D&D game - 'magic college' or not? If they don't exist, why not? Either there's no market (and doesn't the existence of the players create one?), or it's prohibited somehow (hard to justify), or nobody has chosen to do it (and the players will immediately do so, and make chunks of money on it). A definite complication in a D&D game.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> i would think a "magic college" would be too easy a target for evil NPCs or even other worldly creatures....the way I was introduced to it, spells were traded for other spells, and guarded very jealously. If you had somehow gotten Fireball, would you really want every other magic user to have it? I remember whole adventures around seeking out spells, and when a loot hoard had a spell book in it, it was prized higher than the gold!
>
> I just always got that feeling from the BC world. Magic was present, but you had to go out of your way to learn it, or research and practice a spell to learn it, and once learned you wouldnt just hand it out to everyone....
>
>
> Axemaster 65 Cleric
> Lilaxe 65 Warrior
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> I have the opposite reaction. Or, rather, they're
> equally as modular, but
> D&D's modular components are more complete. This is
> natural, because D&D
> can focus more narrowly, whereas d20 Modern has to
> cover a wider array of
> genres and consequently does so more cursorily. To
> the extent that you can
> re-use D&D's modular components, you have more of
> your job done than with
> d20 Modern. I wrote the rules for a fantasy western
> setting ("Cowboys &
> Dragons") in D&D in about two weeks because I could
> re-use most of D&D. If
> I tried to do that in d20 Modern, I'd've had to
> write a lot more, like
> professions, talents, and advanced classes.
Hmmm, that's interesting. It's interesting because I find the basic classes of d20M far more applicable to any genre than D&D. For Black Company, I don't know if the characters would easily fit into the D&D classes.
The skills in feats of D20M also seem, to me, more useful in a wider array of settings than D&D. I would actually say the d20M version of skills like Disable Device are more applicable to the BC setting than D&D (as Disable Device applies to mechanical devices and locks rather than having both Disable Device and open lock--making open lock very specific compared to other skills but still quite necessary). Even Drive could be applied to carriages (driving the Lady's carriage at high speeds--a la Books of the South--might necessitate such a check).
For feats, other than the firearms feats (which aren't really applicable) d20M has some feats better suited to BC than D&D. Agile Riposte is definitely applicable 9and oddly absent from D&D) while something like Cautious could easily be adapted and useful for someone like One Eye making his bad-@$$ spear.
I'm wondering what else about D&D you consider modular. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, it's an honest question. I've found (in my admitedly limited experience running it) d20M to be more flexible and applicable to various genres than D&D. But that could just be me.>
> The Wealth system is only
> useful in an economy of abundance, which makes d20
> Modern particularly
> unsuitable to, say, Gamma World or a medieval
> fantasy game.I've often had the same thing to say about D&D. I believe the gold standard--as presented in the rules--is insanely out of whack with medieval economics. Since everything else in both versions of d20 is so abstract, I believe an abstract wealth system is a good addition, and more suitable to the world of BC than the adundant gold system of d20/D&D
> The firearm
> rules are basically nonsense--compare shotguns and
> sawed-off shotguns, for
> example, or the fact that you have to burn one or
> more feats to use firearms.
> I could say the same of weapons in D&D, after all, one must have simple weapons proficiency. The fact is, all classes get it. Many, but not all, classes and starting occupations in d20M get Personal Firearms, though having everyone capable of using weapons does not seem--to me--quite believable. In any case, firearms will not be an issue in BC.Personally, I preferred the old 1E and 2E weapon's proficiency rules.
> As for adapting Black Company to d20, I'd start with
> D&D and wrench the
> magic system around, but that's about it. No divine
> spellcasters, of course.
> I think some divine spells could be used. However, as the magic system is the one thing we are certain will be tweaked, who's to say how it will be presented.
Sorry to get off on a tangent. This discussion isn't exactly germane, and we can certainly move it to private email if so desired.
Thanks everyone for your patience.
Fraser Ronald
Sword's Edge
Writer: Blood & Guts: In Her Majesty's Service
Contributing Writer: Gnomes: Masters of Illusion available at http://www.rpgnow.com/
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<br>> I have the opposite reaction. Or, rather, they're
<br>> equally as modular, but
<br>> D&D's modular components are more complete. This is
<br>> natural, because D&D
<br>> can focus more narrowly, whereas d20 Modern has to
<br>> cover a wider array of
<br>> genres and consequently does so more cursorily. To
<br>> the extent that you can
<br>> re-use D&D's modular components, you have more of
<br>> your job done than with
<br>> d20 Modern. I wrote the rules for a fantasy western
<br>> setting ("Cowboys &
<br>> Dragons") in D&D in about two weeks because I could
<br>> re-use most of D&D. If
<br>> I tried to do that in d20 Modern, I'd've had to
<br>> write a lot more, like
<br>> professions, talents, and advanced classes.
</p><p>
Hmmm, that's interesting. It's interesting because I find the basic classes of d20M far more applicable to any genre than D&D. For Black Company, I don't know if the characters would easily fit into the D&D classes.
</p><p>
The skills in feats of D20M also seem, to me, more useful in a wider array of settings than D&D. I would actually say the d20M version of skills like Disable Device are more applicable to the BC setting than D&D (as Disable Device applies to mechanical devices and locks rather than having both Disable Device and open lock--making open lock very specific compared to other skills but still quite necessary). Even Drive could be applied to carriages (driving the Lady's carriage at high speeds--a la Books of the South--might necessitate such a check).
</p><p>
For feats, other than the firearms feats (which aren't really applicable) d20M has some feats better suited to BC than D&D. Agile Riposte is definitely applicable 9and oddly absent from D&D) while something like Cautious could easily be adapted and useful for someone like One Eye making his bad-@$$ spear.
</p><p>
I'm wondering what else about D&D you consider modular. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, it's an honest question. I've found (in my admitedly limited experience running it) d20M to be more flexible and applicable to various genres than D&D. But that could just be me.
>
<br>> The Wealth system is only
<br>> useful in an economy of abundance, which makes d20
<br>> Modern particularly
<br>> unsuitable to, say, Gamma World or a medieval
<br>> fantasy game.
I've often had the same thing to say about D&D. I believe the gold standard--as presented in the rules--is insanely out of whack with medieval economics. Since everything else in both versions of d20 is so abstract, I believe an abstract wealth system is a good addition, and more suitable to the world of BC than the adundant gold system of d20/D&D
</p><p>
<br>> The firearm
<br>> rules are basically nonsense--compare shotguns and
<br>> sawed-off shotguns, for
<br>> example, or the fact that you have to burn one or
<br>> more feats to use firearms.
<br>>
I could say the same of weapons in D&D, after all, one must have simple weapons proficiency. The fact is, all classes get it. Many, but not all, classes and starting occupations in d20M get Personal Firearms, though having everyone capable of using weapons does not seem--to me--quite believable. In any case, firearms will not be an issue in BC.
Personally, I preferred the old 1E and 2E weapon's proficiency rules.
</p><p>
<br>> As for adapting Black Company to d20, I'd start with
<br>> D&D and wrench the
<br>> magic system around, but that's about it. No divine
<br>> spellcasters, of course.
<br>>
I think some divine spells could be used. However, as the magic system is the one thing we are certain will be tweaked, who's to say how it will be presented.
</p><p>
Sorry to get off on a tangent. This discussion isn't exactly germane, and we can certainly move it to private email if so desired.
</p><p>
Thanks everyone for your patience.<BR><BR>Fraser Ronald <br>
Writer: <a href="http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?page=pro&product_id=39&"><i>Blood & Guts: In Her Majesty's Service</i></a><br>
Contributing Writer: <i>Gnomes: Masters of Illusion</i> available at <a href="http://www.rpgnow.com/">http://www.rpgnow.com/</a><p><hr size=1><font face="Arial" size="2"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">BT
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