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gdm-digest          Sunday, January 30 2000          Volume 02 : Number 018




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 14:16:07 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> no man to heaven

http://bioag.byu.edu/zoology/bioethics/1945.htm

A 1945 Perspective
This 1945 ward teachers' message on the obedience apparently required of
Church members, the response it sparked from a concerned Salt Lake City
Unitarian minister, and the response of Church President George Albert
Smith to both documents are below. Typographical errors have been
corrected in brackets. All italics appear as underlining in the original.
The Cope and Smith letters are in Special Collections, Marriott Library,
University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah--the J. Raymond Cope Collection
(Association no. 691) and the George A. Smith Papers (Manuscript no. 36,
Box 63-8A), respectively.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ward Teachers' Message for June, 1945
"Sustaining the General Authorities of the Church"

No Latter-day Saint is compelled to sustain the General Authorities of the
Church. When given the opportunity to vote on the proposition in any of
the several conferences held throughout the Church, he may indicate his
willingness to sustain them by raising his right hand; he may manifest his
opposition in like manner; or he may ignore the opportunity entirely.
There is no element of coercion or force in this or any other Church
procedure.

However, there is the principle of honor involved in the member's choice.
When a person raises his hand to sustain Church leaders as "prophets,
seers, and revelators," it is the same as a promise and a covenant to
follow their leadership and to abide by their counsel as the living
oracles of God. Consequently, any subsequent act or word of mouth which is
at variance with the will of the Lord as taught by the leaders of the
Church places the sincerity of such person in serious doubt. One could
scarcely have claim upon complete integrity, if he raises his hand to
sustain the Authorities of the Church and then proceeds in opposition to
their counsel.

Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes, whether actively or
otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the "prophets, seers, and
revelators" of the Church is cultivating the spirit of apostasy. One
cannot speak evil of the Lord's anointed and retain the Holy Spirit in his
heart.

It should be remembered that Lucifer has a very cunning way of convincing
unsuspecting souls that the General Authorities of the Church are as
likely to be wrong as they are to be right. This sort of game is Satan's
favorite pastime, and he has practiced it on believing souls since Adam.
He wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church to speak out
against their leaders and to "do their own thinking." He specializes in
suggesting that our leaders are in error while he plays the blinding rays
of apostasy in the eyes of those whom he thus beguiles. What cunning! And
to think that some of our members are deceived by this trickery.

The following words of the Prophet Joseph Smith should be memorized by
every Latter-day Saint and repeated often enough to insure their never
being forgotten:

I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an
eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man
who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that
they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know
assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does
not repent, will apostatize, as God lives (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, pp. 156-57).

When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a
plan--it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which
is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy.
God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate
repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave
him a stranger to the kingdom of God.

- --Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354.


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Letter of Reverend J. Raymond Cope
First Unitarian Society

13th East at Sixth South Street

Salt Lake City 2, Utah

J. Raymond Cope, Ph.D.

Minister

November 16, 1945

President George Albert Smith

Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S.,

Office of the President,

Salt Lake City.



Dear President Smith:

It has been one of the great privilege[s] of my life to have lived for the
past four years in Salt Lake City, and to have become personally
acquainted with many of the leaders of the L.D.S. Church. From them I have
learned many things, and the spirit of friendliness which is found in our
relationships is a source of unending delight to me. It is because I have
found you and the other leaders so very charitable and sympathetic that I
make so bold as to write you this letter.

May I first assure you of my good will; that there is not one note of
hostility in attitude. I am confident that you will understand why I
write, and that we have a common interest in the problem.

Last June there was delivered to my door a short religious editorial,
prepared by one of your leaders, entitled "Sustaining the General
Authorities of the Church." Its message amazed me a great deal, and with
the passing of weeks my distur[b]ance became very acute. It might have
passed, except that several members of your Church have come to me to
discuss the subject. The most recent was a prominent doctor, who, because
of this tract, he affirms, is losting [sic] his religious faith. He is a
large man, and I became impressed with his deep sincerity as he broke down
and wept like a boy. I am convinced that he is undergoing a very dangerous
experience.

Permit me to quote the passages which seem to be brought most in question:

"He (Lucifer) wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church
to speak against their leaders and to 'do their own thinking[.]'"

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a
plan--it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which
is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of
controversy...."

I do not know who is responsible for this statement, but I am sure it is
doing inestimable harm to many who have no other reason to question the
integrity of the Church leaders. Many people are suffering because of
this. My reply to each of those who have spoken to me is "please do not
become distrubed [sic], for this cannot be the position of the true
leaders. And, from my knowledge of the early writings of your leaders, I
must assume this to be non-representitive [sic].

Several years ago, when I first became acquainted with the L.D.S. Church,
I read extensively in the texts, and there are many passages which may be
used to give a better expression to the vision and genius of your Faith. I
cite but one, although there are many others which are familiar to you.

Quoting from the Discourses of Brigham Young, as Selected and Arranged by
John A. Widtsoe, in the Chapter on "The Priesthood":

"I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their
leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are
led by him. I am fearful that they settle down in a state of blind
self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their
leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwa[r]t the
purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could
give their leaders did they know for themselves, by the revelations of
Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know,
by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their
leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not."

This quotation from Brigham Young is a wonderful passage, and it has been
on the basis of such freedom that persons like myself have grown to have a
deep feeling of kinship with the L.D.S. Church. It is in keeping with the
high traditions of my Unitarian background that the gains made by my
fellow workers are seen as gains for us all. It is a source of regret to
all of us when one stone is discovered to bar the way to deeper faith
within any soul.

With an assurance of my continued good-will and friendliness,

Most cordially yours,

J. Raymond Cope. [typed]


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----

Letter of President George Albert Smith
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Office of the First Presidency

Salt Lake City, Utah

December 7, 1945

Dr. J. Raymond Cope

First Unitarian Society

13th East at 6th South Street

Salt Lake City, Utah



My dear Dr. Cope:

I have read with interest and deep concern your letter of November 16,
1945, in which you make special comment on "a short religious editorial
prepared by one of your (our) leaders entitled "Sustaining the General
Authorities of the Church'". You say that you read the message with
amazement, and that you have since been disturbed because of its effect
upon members of the Church.

I am gratified with the spirit of friendliness that pervades your letter,
and thank you for having taken the time to write to me.

The leaflet to which you refer, and from which you quote in your letter,
was not "prepared" by "one of our leaders." However, one or more of them
inadvertently permitted the paragraph to pass uncensored. By their so
doing, not a few members of the Church have been upset in their feelings,
and General Authorities have been embarrassed.

I am pleased to assure you that you are right in your attitude that the
passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to
imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is
grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every
individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the Gospel,
must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation,
and is personally responsible to His Maker for his individual acts. The
Lord Himself does not attempt coercion in His desire and effort to give
peace and salvation to His children. He gives the principles of life and
true progress, but leaves every person free to choose or to reject His
teachings. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to follow.

The Prophet Joseph Smith once said: "I want liberty of thinking and
believing as I please." This liberty he and his successors in the
leadership of the Church have granted to every other member thereof.

On one occasion in answer to the question by a prominent visitor how he
governed his people, the Prophet answered: "I teach them correct
principles, and they govern themselves."

Again, as recorded in the History of the Church (Volume 5, page 498 [499]
Joseph Smith said further: "If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I
bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I
cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any
man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut
its own way."

I cite these few quotations, from many that might be given, merely to
confirm your good and true opinion that the Church gives to every man his
free agency, and admonishes him always to use the reason and good judgment
with which God has blessed him.

In the advocacy of this principle leaders of the Church not only join
congregations in singing but quote frequently the following:

"Know this, that every soul is free

To choose his life and what he'll be,

For this eternal truth is given

That God will force no man to heaven."

Again I thank you for your manifest friendliness and for your expressed
willingness to cooperate in every way to establish good will and harmony
among the people with whom we are jointly laboring to bring brotherhood
and tolerance.

Faithfully yours,

Geo. Albert Smith [signed]


http://bioag.byu.edu/zoology/bioethics/1945.htm


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

[It is to bad that George Albert Smith didn't feel strong enough about
what he said to name, names, or publish his letter in the next Improvment
Era!!!!]




Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:33:01 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> CHI

By CARL S. KAPLAN

Copyright Decision Threatens Freedom to Link

n a ruling that could undermine the freedom to create links on the Web, a
federal judge in Utah has temporarily barred two critics of the Mormon
Church from posting on their Web site the Internet addresses of other
sites featuring pirated copies of a Mormon text.

In issuing a preliminary injunction on Monday, Judge Tena Campbell of the
United States District Court in Salt Lake City said it was likely that the
critics, Sandra and Jerald Tanner, had engaged in contributory copyright
infringement when they posted the addresses of three Web sites that they
knew, or should have known, contained the copies. The copyrighted material
was the text of the Church Handbook of Instructions, a
limited-distribution book that enables lay clergy to administer the
affairs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Lawyers for Intellectual Reserve Inc., a corporation that holds the
intellectual property assets of the Mormon Church, praised Judge
Campbell's decision. The temporary order will stay in effect until the
case is tried or settled.

"We are certainly pleased the court is upholding copyright law," said
Berne S. Broadbent, copyright lawyer for IRI.

But other lawyers found the court's decision disturbing and, if it stands,
a possibly dangerous precedent that could inhibit one of the most
fundamental features of the Web -- the ability to direct viewers from one
Web site to another. Although the Tanners' case revolves around the
posting of Internet addresses or URLs, and not actual linking, the
copyright issues are similar, lawyers said.

"If that decision ultimately holds up, then linking is definitely dead,"
said Jeffrey R. Kuester, a copyright lawyer who practices cyberspace law
at Thomas, Kayden, Horstemeyer & Risley in Atlanta. "If you can't post an
address without running into copyright infringement, how can you link?"

"The Web is all about links," Kuester said. "Without linking, there is no
Web."

The Tanners, a married couple who are long-time critics of the Mormon
Church, are founders of the Utah Lighthouse Ministry, which operates a Web
site with commentary about the Mormons and other information.

In July, the Tanners posted on their Web site the tenth chapter of the
Church Handbook of Instructions, along with portions of two other chapters
- -- a total of 17 pages of the 160-page book. Brian M. Barnard, a lawyer
for the Tanners, said in an interview that the couple posted the excerpts
in an effort to help people who had inquired about Church activities. The
Tanners received a copy of the book in electronic form from an anonymous
source, he said.

In October, the church, acting through its IRI arm, filed a lawsuit
against the Tanners in United States District Court for the Central
Division of Utah, claiming that the posting of the book's 17 pages
amounted to copyright infringement. Later, Judge Campbell issued an
initial, temporary restraining order banning the direct posting of the
book's contents.

In early November, according to legal papers, the Tanners posted on their
site an e-mail from a reader that said: "Church Handbook of Instructions
is back online!" The e-mail went on to list three Internet addresses at
which copies of the entire Handbook or portions of it could be obtained.

Claiming that the Tanners were improperly pointing viewers to sites that
contained illegal copies of the handbook, lawyers for the Mormon Church
succeeded in getting Judge Campbell to issue an expanded restraining
order. This week, she also issued a formal preliminary injunction, which
prohibits the Tanners from directly posting the contents of the handbook
or posting on their site "addresses to Web sites that defendants know, or
have reason to know, contain the material alleged to infringe plaintiff's
copyright."

In reaching her decision, Judge Campbell made two key conclusions.

First, she reasoned that anyone who went to a Web site and viewed a
pirated copy of the handbook was probably engaging in direct copyright
infringement, because that viewer's browser automatically makes a local
copy of the text.

In addition, Judge Campbell reckoned that by posting the addresses to the
pirate sites after they were ordered to take down the handbook, and by
otherwise assisting people who wished to locate the pirate sites, the
Tanners were liable under a theory of contributory copyright infringement.
By their actions, the Tanners "actively encouraged" browsers to directly
infringe the church's copyright, Judge Campbell wrote.

What makes Judge Campbell's 10-page opinion significant, lawyers said, is
that there are few other instances where a court has ruled on the practice
of knowingly linking to or posting addresses for sites with infringing
material.

Sandra Tanner said she and her husband are considering an appeal of Judge
Campbell's order to the United States Court of Appeals for the 10th
Circuit. Otherwise, the case will proceed to trial.

"I don't believe it is illegal to tell someone where to go to read the
handbook," Tanner said.

Broadbent, the lawyer for IRI, claimed the court's order was a
straightforward application of the law of contributory infringement. "We
regard what the Tanners did as an end-run around the initial order," he
said.

Broadbent added that IRI recently contacted the operator of Prestige Elite
Communications in Australia, as well as half a dozen other sites which, he
claimed, had posted portions of the handbook, requesting that they stop
directly infringing church copyrights. He said that with one exception,
all the sites IRI contacted have taken down the material. David Gerard,
the operator of the Prestige site, did not immediately respond to an
e-mail request for an interview.

Jessica Litman, a law professor at Wayne State University in Detroit and
an expert on intellectual property, said she believes the court was wrong
to issue a preliminary injunction.

Pointing out that there can be no contributory infringement without direct
infringement, she said it was clear to her that when members of the public
used the addresses provided by the Tanners and visited a site to look at
the handbook, any copies their browsers made were permissible and
protected by the concept of fair use.

In any case, Litman asserted, the mere posting of a Web address could not
amount to actively encouraging someone else's infringement. "If I give a
footnote in a law review article for a plagiarized book, that seems to be
just telling people where the book is, not materially facilitating their
infringement," she said. "This decision is like saying that providing
footnotes to illegal material is illegal."

The upshot, said Litman, is that the decision could discourage people from
giving addresses of Web sites or linking to them out of concern for
copyright liability.

Jessica R. Friedman, a copyright lawyer with Reboul, MacMurray, Hewitt,
Maynard & Kristol, a New York firm, said she also believed that the court
went too far in issuing a preliminary injunction. But she said the case
was a "close call" given the letter of copyright law.

"It's not an unreasonable decision, but it is a little scary," she said.

CYBER LAW JOURNAL is published weekly, on Fridays. Click here for a list
of links to other columns in the series.



Related Sites These sites are not part of The New York Times on the Web,
and The Times has no control over their content or availability.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Utah Lighthouse Ministry

Utah Lighthouse Ministry's news page on lawsuit, Intellectual Reserve Inc.
v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry Inc.

Prestige Elite Communications

Prestige Elite Communications' page on Mormon dispute

Carl S. Kaplan at [e-mail] welcomes your comments and
suggestions.




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Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company

=================================

[Now for the commentary that was directed to the writer of the article
above:


[e-mail]

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/cyber/cyberlaw/10law.html

In your article you have the following link:

 Prestige Elite Communications' page on Mormon dispute

http://www.xenu.netizen.com.au/lds/

at the bottom of that past are links to places that have the copy
protected CHI.

1.http://truth2k.tripod.com/
2.http://truth2k1.tripod.com/
3.kolob.bizland.com
4.http://www.home.ch/~spaw1736/sciento-vs-internet/AA.htm,
http://www.home.ch/~spaw1736/sciento-vs-internet/AB.zip (WinZip of .htm
file),
http://www.home.ch/~spaw1736/sciento-vs-internet/AC.zip (folio .nfo)


Are you not doing what the Tanners are being sued for?

Aren't you worried that this multi-Billion dollar organization is going to
sue YOU?

Also why do they say that by looking at a site you gain a copy?

Are they talking about the cashed copy?

If they don't save or if they don't click and save the FTPed file,  As
soon as they close Netscape they have NOTHING!

Most people don't know how to retrieve things from their cash.]




Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:21:30 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> More CHI on the web controversy

[The last post relating to the CHI, very much relates to what I found on a
web site]

http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/chi/

That web pages reproduced below.

- -------------------------


The Book on Name Removal and some relevant links


It seems that the LDS church has just picked a fight about the circulation
of the documents on this site. Taking the example of the so-called
"church" of scientology, the LDS church is claiming the exclusive rights
to the documents, based on copyright.

By their nature, religious documents and documents pertaining to the
practice of a religion can never be subject to exclusive use. Freedom of
religion, i.e. the freedom to practice one's religion without interference
and without the obligation to belong to and/or pay any particular church,
is protected in the constitutions of most countries and takes precedence
over copyright. This is particularly true in cases where copyright is not
used to promote the spreading of the religious scriptures in question, but
to suppress it instead.

Furthermore, the religious and other practices of any church are a public
matter; they are everybody's business and everybody has the right to know
and debate them. This is not only the natural consequence of the respect
that religion enjoys in our Western democracies, but also a pre-requisite
to it. Only if a church is open to public scrutiny can it claim the right
to practise its faith undisturbed and - yet more - to proselityse. The
freedom to operate that churches are granted in our democracies is not
God-given, and it is rather disturbing to see that one church after
another try to have it their way both ways. That's called "eating the pie
and having it" and works very seldom. These considerations, together with
the fact that the LDS church is trying to suppress the publication of the
following documents is the reason that they are published here. Complaints
(and compliments) can be directed to


Zenon Panoussis
2e van Swindenstraat 188
1093 XA Amsterdam
The Netherlands

- -----

For a more information about this book and the controversy around it, see
Mirele's and David's pages.

- -----

The book in HTML format, divided in chapters.

The book in HTML format, all in one file.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/chi/chi00.htm


Index in HTML format, but not linking back to the text.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/chi/chi99.htm

The book in Folio Infobase format, all in one file.
[this link is bad at the moment and actually points at the previous link.]

This entire site, including this page, in ZIP format.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/chi/chiall.zip

Download and peruse as you may need. Also, if you have the possibility to
mirror this site, do so by downloading the ZIP file and unzipping it in
one directory. The more mirrors there are around, the more difficult it
will be for anyone to suppress this publication.

[Commentary, the cat is out of the bag, or in church parlance, the pillow
has been burst open and the feathers have been blown about from the top of
a hill and can not (all) be gathered back.

The church needs to release it's  strangle hold on this information and
just PUBLISH it from their own web page, like responsible adults should
and let ALL members at their leisure know all the rules by which the game
is being played!]





Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:44:12 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> Thoughts, not from the manual.

THE CAKE

Cindy glanced nervously at the clock on the kitchen wall. Five minutes
before midnight.

"They should be home any time now," she thought as she put the finishing
touches on the chocolate cake she was frosting.

It was the first time in her 12 years she had tried to make a cake from
scratch, and to be honest, it wasn't exactly an aesthetic triumph.

The cake was . . . well, lumpy. And the frosting was bitter, as if she had
run out of sugar or something...which, of course, she had. And then there
was the way the kitchen looked.  Imagine a huge blender filled with all
the fixings for chocolate cake- including the requisite bowls, pans and
utensils.  Now imagine that the blender is turned on. High speed. With the
lid off.  Do you get the idea?

But Cindy wasn't thinking about the mess. She had created something, a
veritable phoenix of flour and sugar rising out of the kitchen clutter.
She was anxious for her parents to return home from their date so she
could present her anniversary gift to them.

She turned off the kitchen lights and waited excitedly in the darkness.

When at last she saw the flash of the car headlights, she positioned
herself in the kitchen doorway.  By the time she heard the key sliding
into the front door, she was THIS CLOSE to exploding.

Her parents tried to slip in quietly, but Cindy would have none of that.

She flipped on the lights dramatically and trumpeted: "Ta-daaa!" She
gestured grandly toward the kitchen table, where a slightly off-balance
two-layer chocolate cake awaited their inspection.

But her mother's eyes never made it all the way to the table.

"Just look at this mess!" she moaned. "How many times have I talked to you
about cleaning up after yourself?" "But Mom, I was only..." "I should make
you clean this up right now, but I'm too tired to stay up with you to make
sure you get it done right," her mother said.  "So you'll do it first
thing in the morning."

"Honey," Cindy's father interjected gently, "take a look at the table." "I
know-it's a mess," his wife said coldly.  "The whole kitchen is a
disaster.

I can't stand to look at it." She stormed up the stairs and into her room,
slamming the door shut behind her.  For a few moments Cindy and her father
stood silently, neither one knowing what to say. At last she looked up at
him, her eyes moist and red.

"She never saw the cake," she said.  Unfortunately, Cindy's mother isn't
the only parent who suffers from Situational Timbercular Glaucoma- the
occasional inability to see the forest for the trees.

From time to time we all allow ourselves to be blinded to issues of
long-term significance by Stuff That Seems Awfully Important Right Now-but
isn't.  Muddy shoes, lost lunch money and messy kitchens are troublesome,
and they deserve their place among life's frustrations.  But what's a
little mud-even on new carpet-compared to a child's self-esteem?

Is a lost dollar more valuable than a youngster's emerging dignity?  And
while kitchen sanitation is important, is it worth the sacrifice of tender
feelings and relationships?

I'm not saying that our children don't need to learn responsibility, or to
occasionally suffer the painful consequences of their own bad choices.

Those lessons are vital, and need to be carefully taught.

But as parents, we must never forget that we're not just teaching lessons
- -- we're teaching children. That means there are times when we really need
to see the mess in the kitchen.

And times when we only need to see the cake.

~Joseph Walker~



THINGS MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME

My Mother taught me LOGIC...

"If you fall off that swing and break your neck, you can't go to the store
with me."

My Mother taught me MEDICINE...

"If you don't stop crossing your eyes, they're going to freeze that way."

My Mother taught me TO THINK AHEAD...

"If you don't pass your spelling test, you'll never get a good job!"

My Mother taught me ESP...

"Put your sweater on; don't you think that I know when you're cold?"

My Mother taught me TO MEET A CHALLENGE...

"What were you thinking? Answer me when I talk to you...

Don't talk back to me!"

My Mother taught me HUMOR...

"When that lawn mower cuts off your toes, don't come running to me."

My Mother taught me how to BECOME AN ADULT...

"If you don't eat your vegetables, you'll never grow up.

My mother taught me about GENETICS...

"You are just like your father!"

My mother taught me about my ROOTS...

"Do you think you were born in a barn?"

My mother taught me about the WISDOM of AGE...

"When you get to be my age, you will understand."

My mother taught me about ANTICIPATION...

"Just wait until your father gets home."

My mother taught me about RECEIVING...

You are going to get it when we get home.

And my all time favorite thing-JUSTICE "one day you will have kids, and I
hope they turn out just like YOU..then you'll see what it's like."





Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:15:30 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> In the news.

LDS Representative Tells Vermont Legislature to Amend Constitution
(Opponents testify before Legislature)
Boston Globe (AP) 13Jan00 N1
By Ross Sneyd: Associated Press

MONTPELIER, VERMONT -- In the wake of last month's Vermont Supreme Court
decision that gay and lesbian couples are entitled to the same benefits
enjoyed by married couples, the Vermont legislature held hearings what
legislation should be enacted to implement the decision. Opponents of
same-sex marriage, including the LDS Church, testified before the
Vermont House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday, arguing that the
legislature should either ignore the decision or try to enact a
constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriage.

The LDS Church was represented by Burlington lawyer Thomas McCormick,
who helped write a brief to the Vermont Supreme Court for its recent
decision, now called the Baker decision. McCormick told the Judiciary
committee that he thinks the best way to respond was to seek an
amendment to the state constitution that defines marriage as between one
man and one woman.

McCormick told the committee that he thinks permitting same-sex
marriages will lead to other forms of marriage. "What is going to mean
if you redefine marriage today that says, yes, the very attractive
couples in the Baker case can be married? What are you going to say
tomorrow when three or more people want to get married? If you say yes
to same-sex couples, what do you say to two sisters or two brothers who
want to be married?"

http://www.burstnet.com/ads/ad6305a-map.cgi

From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events


http://www.boston.com/dailynews/013/region/Opponents_testify_before_Legis:.
shtml

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/013/region/Opponents_testify_before_Legis:.
shtml


- ----------------


[commentary:  The old excuse of why we do not live section 132 today is
that it is against the law of the land.  Yet the church, instead of
struggling to try to get the laws changed so that we can live our
religions to it's fullest like our ancestors did, the church works to see
that the law does NOT allow marriage of anything but ONE man and ONE
women!!!

How can this match with our history?]

See:

http://www.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/chron.htm

- ----------




Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:26:10 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> Dark Side

[Commentary, I got this in my in box, and cleaned it up to put out again.
It appears with the hype to be not a very scholarly work, but meant to be
sensational for the purpose to make money.  Thought some of you would be
interested in being informed incase it came up in a conversation]


National Release-Dark Side of Utah Polygamy

Agreka Books News Release January 29, 2000 Announcing New Book Available
For Purchase Feb 8, 2000.

http://utahbooks.com/Dark_Side_Utah_Polygamy_2000.htm

MURDER OF A PROPHET: The Dark Side of Utah Polygamy by John R. Llewellyn

A Fact-Based Novel --Distributed Nationwide

Read the first chapter

http://agreka.com/Dark_Side_Utah_Polygamy.htm

AOL USERS
http://utahbooks.com/Dark_Side_Utah_Polygamy_2000.htm"

A riveting story of intrigue, murder, and sex. Lusting for worldwide
power, the fanatical leader of a Utah polygamist cult launches a plan to
become "the prophet" of all the polygamist cults and then to take over the
entire Mormon Church. Detectives fear a doomsday Waco-type standoff with
women and children. Investigator John Llewellyn, polygamy expert, creates
a fascinating tale of fiction based on real-life events.

As the drama unfolds, personal background stories of individuals portray
to the reader Easy manipulation of deeply faithful people taught
unquestioning obedience.

Depictions of negative social and genetic effects of a polygamous
lifestyle.

Vibrant, playful little girls often devolving into lifeless, emotionless
women.

Occasional men, sexually intimidated by mature women, and having absolute
control over their children, fall into pedophilic behavior as they "train
young girls" to become wives who can "please their husband." While
claiming polygamy is simply a mandate by God to raise up a righteous
progeny, and that men are being "holy" as they fulfill this directive, two
polygamist leaders lustfully pursue a beautiful new woman convert, each
wanting her as wife.

Rod Williams Former U.S. Secret Service and Border Patrol Agent Murder of
a Prophet is a true-to-life scenario. Llewellyn s investigative background
well qualifies him to write this book. As a former U.S.

Federal Agent, I found his book spellbinding, accurate, and entertaining.

Janet Bennion, Ph.D.  Anthropologist and Author of Women of Principle:
Female Networking in Contemporary Mormon Polygyny. Oxford University
Press. Both sides of polygamy must be addressed. As an anthropologist, I
have often presented the positive sides to plural marriage. Llewellyn,
using actual incidents from polygamy s history, creatively presents many
of the negative sides.

His fiction novel reflects the vastly diverse experiences inherent in
contemporary Mormon fundamentalism.

Carolyn Campbell Author of Together Again: True Stories of Birth Parents
and Adopted Children Reunited.

The characterizations shine with insight, authenticity and humor.

The plot is engaging and intriguing.

David R. Bishop Captain (Retired) Salt Lake County Sheriff s Office Mr.
Llewellyn s investigative background makes him uniquely qualified to catch
the real flavor of the dark side of Mormon polygamist cults. An excellent
read for anyone wishing to explore this world.

WHY POLYGAMY IS NOW NATIONAL NEWS

A recent criminal case in Utah is receiving worldwide attention.

A father beat his 16-year-old daughter unconscious when she tried to leave
her uncle/husband, of whom she was the 15th wife. Left horribly bruised
and alone in an abandoned barn miles from home, she staggered seven miles
late at night to a pay phone and called 911. The father and uncle were
found guilty of child abuse, but the state did not file polygamy charges a
touchy issue in Utah.

Polygamy is a subject that stirs curiosity. Even in Utah, many people do
not know much about the underground life of polygamists. The recent
two-hour "Investigative Report" by A&E is revealing and, after reading
this book, one can easily follow that program and recognize the various
groups.

Polygamy has become a public relations nightmare for Utah, especially with
the Olympics coming.

A new task force is being put together to "deal with it." Yet, it is a
sticky issue, not only from a constitutional point of view (where same-sex
marriages are being quoted as a similar issue to polygamy), but from a
practical one. What does one do with all the children if a man is removed
and sent to jail.

What does one do with all the women who are untrained for the outside
world. Political pressure is being brought to bear on the governor to
prosecute polygamists, yet he is a descendant of polygamists, as are many
Mormons.

The author is an insider expert on the subject, is a great storyteller,
and is known and trusted by most of the polygamist leaders. He also claims
there are many thousands of non-Mormon polygamists in the U.S.

Yes, it is a fascinating and riveting fact-based novel.

But more than that, it illuminates the issue of Polygamy in a new way. The
reader gets an inside view of the day-to-day life of what it all means and
how it is lived by each group and their very real men, women, and
children.

The hot button today is the abuse that goes on within that community. It
is a topic that will not die down because the Media has seized upon it for
"news" and as the Olympics for Salt Lake City draws closer, this will only
intensify.

About The Author

Investigator John R. Llewellyn was a deputy sheriff for twenty-three years
the Salt Lake County Sheriff s Office. Considered an expert, he spent a
number of years in prolonged investigation of polygamy cults. He was often
placed on loan to do special investigations for the County Attorney,
District Attorney, and Attorney General. Today he is the lead investigator
in several lawsuits against polygamist cults by former members who were
spiritually manipulated into assigning all their possessions to the cult
they joined.

Utah Books offers secure credit card online orders or you may call 1 800
360-5284 to order.

This book can be ordered through any book store with the ISBN number:
188810693X.

Agreka Books 1-800-360-5284
http://www.agreka.com/New_NonFiction_Fiction.htm

Family Books Division.

http://utahbooks.com/Free_Guide_Writing_Family_Book.htm

[eof]





Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:24:53 -0700
From: "Perry L. Porter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ---> Lesson 44

[Commentary.  The faith promoting rumor rears it's head from time to time,
and if you have heard this one, you may want to consider the commentary I
wrote about it before passing it along.

On one of the many internet email lists I am on a fellow wrote:]

- ------------

BTW, A couple of years ago I attended an archaeological seminar here in
Orem at UVSC.  One of the speakers was David Deal.  During a break I had
a chance to speak to him.  He said that the large round stone heads down
in central America with Negroid features all have names written on the
top of them (in Ogam).  He told me they were the names of all the
Jaredite Kings.  What was interesting to me about this is that He is not
an active LDS and was smoking a Winston cigarette at the time he told me
this.  Regards, J...

- -------------

[Another fellow wrote back]

- -------------

If this is true (and, BTW, I am not doubting you), why is it not widely
known in and out of the church?  It seems like verified information of
this sort would spread like wildfire.

D...


- --------------

[To which I wrote]

- --------------


OK since you asked us to think about this logically, I'll give it a stab.

How are names translated?

Well it is by seeing well established patters, between languages, and
often people from different countries intermixing and communicating.

Translating words is one thing, for you have a unique and identifiable
object, such as an onion!

But a name is not unique to ONE person, so JOHN does not describe one
unique thing!

Take a language I know, Italian, DAVE is DAVIDE  and JOHN is GIOVANI, and
MARK is MARCO  (MARKO),  you just take a name and Italianize it.  But you
do it phonetically.

You have the long name Joseph and the short name Joe, and the Italian
equivalent, Giuseppe, and the short form Pino.

Wow that is not at all the same!  Look how common and similar the two
names are and how different the short names are.  Knowing very well the
language, you know that to say little you add a "ino" on the end, so
Giuseppino, become Pino.  But you have to know the language very well to
know when that is a valid pattern and when it is coincidence or
meaningless.

Now you can have a drawing of an Onion and have the word POLICE below it
and you know an Italian book it is talking about Onions not cops.

So can you draw a picture of a person and put a caption below it saying
JOSEPH, and every time you see that word it is that person and no one
else?

This was solved with the illiterate of Europe, by panting the Apostles and
Prophets always with their accompanying symbol, Like Peter will always be
carrying KEYS!

You can describe the acts of Christ and use the word UNGA ever time you
talk of one of the acts of Christ and one can build a case that UNGA means
Christ!

Now how do you translate person's name on a statue, when all you know
about them is their name mentioned in ONE book in all the world!  Is there
enough known about Jaredite Kings in the book of Mormon so that you could
draw pictures of them and they may look different from one artist to the
next, but you always know which Jaredite King is which, become one is
always carrying a loaf of bread!

Now compound IF we are not translating one written name from one language
to another but we are translating is hieroglyphic.  So you are translating
a picture that represents words or a person, and that had to be detailed
enough to match the individual descriptions of the Jaredite Kings on a one
to one basis!

To tell you the truth I don't know how well differentiated the Jaredite
Kings are, but I don't remember any Arnold Frieburg painting, indicating
their unique personalities.

Instead they were suppose to be written in OGAM.  Where the description of
this unusual alphabetic system of inscribed notches for vowels and lines
for consonants used to write Old Irish, chiefly on the edges of memorial
stones, from the fifth to the early seventh century?  (American Heritage
dictionary)

Ogam may have originated in Libya, from where the first Gnostic
missionaries are thought to have come. It was adopted and further
developed by the first (Gnostic) monks in Ireland around 350 A.D.
http://www.islandnet.com/~edonon/whatogam.html

I have not followed mesoamerican archeology, but I would think that such a
find would make big news, even if it had nothing to do with Mormonism.

How did it get there, what form of OGAM was it?  Did it fit
chronologically with when OGAM was thought to have begun?  When would the
Jaredite learn the OGAM alphabet, did they mention that they knew it AND
reformed EGYPTIAN?  Was it invented before they came to America?  Was the
OGAM on the stones a self evolved OGAM different than when they first
brought it across from America, and if so how did they know how to
translate it?

What proof did they have that it was not inscribes after Columbus and
European settlers?

The Gnostic missionaries used the script to spread the Gospel by marking
their Biblical phrases on neolithic standing stones to convert the people
to Christianity.
http://www.islandnet.com/~edonon/translat.html

How do we know that is was just not a Spaniard version of the Gnostic
missionaries, trying to convert the natives?

More questions than answers.  But like most faith promoting rumors, it
spreads like wild fire, while logic and reason are tossed aside.

Would FARMS really bother with the dead sea scrolls, when they have the
first physical proof of Book of Mormon?

For a history of searching for physical proof of the BoM, you might want
to check out an article I have temporarily located at:

http://www.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/inprogress/bomnot.htm

[eof]

- --------------------

[More Commentary, I never read very much FARMS stuff, but seems that they
should devote at least a little bit of their time squashing faith
promoting rumors that are false, lest people's testimony is damaged, when
the find out the real truth]




Perry     <[e-mail]>    http://pobox.com/~plporter

- -

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