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fractint-digest        Thursday, June 28 2001        Volume 01 : Number 577




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:23:23 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Xfractint version 20.1.12

The source for Xfractint version 20.1.12 is now available at the developer's
web site:
www.fractint.org

The patch doesn't go in cleanly.  I was expecting this to happen because of
the nature of the changes.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:19:57 -0700
From: "Osher Doctorow" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Where the Big Bang Came From According to Memory (M) Theory With Chaos

From: Osher Doctorow [e-mail], Tues. June 26, 2001 9:16PM

I have been generalizing my paper in B. N. Kursunuglu et al Editors Quantum
Gravity, Generalized Theory of Gravitation, and Superstring Theory-Based
Unification, Kluwer Academic/Plenum: N.Y. 2000 89-97, into Memory (M)
Theory.  To make this introduction more rapid, I will just mention a few
points.

1. The universe is divided into events which depend on 2 or more past times
(Memory (M) events), events which depend on only one past time (Semi-Memory
(S) events), and events which depend on no past time (Non-Memory (N)
events).
2. I proved an inequality yesterday on anzap-l (Australian-New Zealand
Applied Probability) which in English translation approximately states that
when two random variables tend to increase together (technically they are
positively quadrant dependent according to the statistical dependence
literature - see Harry Joe's (University of British Columbia) recent volume
by Chapman Hall/Longmans on statistical dependence (you can reference it on
the internet under Professor Harry Joe or one of the publishers - I think
the internet hasn't gotten to categorizing dependence yet as a keyword),
then events associated with them are of M type if they have low probability,
S type if they have medium or fair probability, and N type if they have high
probability.   However, if the two random variables are negatively
statistically dependent (one tends to increase while the other tends to
decrease), then chaos is generated at the boundary or transition between
fair/medium and high probability events associated with these random
variables.  It is not generated anywhere else.
3.  For those who are interested in actually using the inequality, for the
case of positive quadrant dependent events it states that for positively
quadrant dependence, which is to say P(AB) > = P(A) times P(B)  where P(A)
is the probability of set/event A, P(AB) is the probability of the
intersection of set/events A and B, then the probable influences of A on B
or the probability of B given A (the first applies to M and N events, the
second to S events) are related by in the relative order from left (M) to
center (S) to right (N): 1 + y - x > = y/x > = z   where x = P(A) is assumed
non-zero in the middle expression, y = P(AB), z = P(B).   For negative
quadrant dependence, only y/x > = z fails, which is the boundary between M
and N events.   Notice that S events are usually described as Bayesian or
involving Bayesian conditional probability (BCP).

There is no question about the above results.  However, there is a bit more
theorizing and conjecture involved in applying them to the Big Bang.  The
most plausible present conjectured scenario that I have based partly on the
above is as follows, numbered starting with 4.

4. The universe at the exact time of the Big Bang was either in a state of
*tired radiation* or a combined matter-radiation state (a phase which no
longer exists except perhaps in quantum entanglement, although it may be
remotely related to Memory (M)).  If it was in a state of *tired radiation*,
I am referring to radiation which has travelled a very long distance and is
at an extreme boundary of an earlier universe - for example, a prior
expanding-accelerating universe which may still exist *outside* ours.   I
will refer to this universe as the Proto Object or PO.
5. The PO was in a combined S and N state, which means the following in
practice.  It was in an analogue of a type of equilibrium between a tendency
to depend on no past time (time independence or N state, similar to
radiation in the case of light in some respects) and a tendency to depend on
one past time (S state).  Markov chains and Markov processes exemplify S
states in the present time universe, as do differential and partial
differential equation models which only have one explicit time variable t
and one implicit future time variable t + h or rather its limit as h
approaches 0 contained in the (partial) derivative(s), so that the event at
time t + h may be considered to depend on the one previous time t.  This is
not true of delay/retarded or advanced (functional) differential equations
or Volterra integral or integrodifferential equations, which depend on 2 or
more times.
6.  The tension between the tendency of the PO to depend on no or one
previous time is reflected in the present tension between matter which tends
to resist change of position (inertia) and radiation which tends to move or
resist *stopping at one position*.   However, present day radiation seems to
also have a time independence of a sort - a ray of light is well known to
*see* its entire past and future simultaneously, and the Penrose Diagram
separates light, space, and time into adjacent but different regions.  The
nature of radiation may have already changed from the PO till now.
7.  The Big Bang was triggered when the tension between radiation and matter
broke chaotically, and the radiation-dominated early era of the universe
began.   Later on, a matter-dominated era took over, in which however much
radiation still existed and exists.  In this scenario, some matter still
probably survived during the early radiation-dominated era.  What triggered
the breaking of the tension was a change from positive to negative
dependence of matter and radiation due to the increase of time as measured
positively from 0 at the Big Bang forward.  Early radiation was time
dependent, also reflected in present day radiation in its tendency to move
or resist stopping.  As time increased, it interacted with radiation more
than with matter.  Radiation became dominant and the radiation-dominated era
began.  However, as time went on, the universe began occupying such a large
volume that its spatial influence became dominant over its time influence,
and this interacted with matter which tends to preserve position in space.
The matter-dominated era took over.
8.  In both the rise of the radiation-dominated era and the matter-dominated
era, there is indication concerning the *resetting* of both internal clocks
in time and internal *spatial clocks* or spatial measurement in space by
what we call the universe from a zero point at the Big Bang.  Since it seems
plausible that a universe (or two) existed prior to the Big Bang, the
resetting of the time clock may be a characteristic of *tired radiation* as
well as the onset of chaos.  The clock jumped from its previous reading to
some unknown chaotic time value which the *reborn* universe labelled as
zero.  When it was relabelled, radiation had taken over and the Big Bang had
begun.  Later, expanding space exerted an increasing influence on the
universe in the direction of matter and a boundary was reached at which a
similar chaotic jump occurred in space, and the universe reset its *spatial
clock* or spatial measurement and matter had taken over mostly.
9.  The above theory may enable deciding between inflation, quintessence,
dark energy, the cosmological constant, and so on as to what force drives
the expanding/accelerating universe.  If inflation occurred as a sudden jump
twice, as the latest theory claims, then it may have jumped either at one or
both chaotic points indicated above or as a small chaotic transition
somewhere between them.  It is of course possible that all of the above have
some role.
10.  The recent claimed finding of a new form of *early universe* matter in
quasars may, if confirmed, help decide between the various alternatives in
9.

Osher Doctorow Ph.D.
Doctorow Consultants
Formerly (and still intermittently in parts) California State Universities
and Community Colleges, U.S. Defense Department, etc.




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:33:18 +0000
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Xfractint version 20.1.12

On Wednesday 27 June 2001 01:23, Jonathan Osuch wrote:
> The source for Xfractint version 20.1.12 is now available at the
> developer's web site:
> www.fractint.org
>
> The patch doesn't go in cleanly.  I was expecting this to happen because
> of the nature of the changes.
>
You were right about that! I found that out Tuesday morning when I tried
to apply the patch to v20.1.11 - no go.... I knew I would just have to
wait until you uploaded the full source. I'm anxious to try out your
fixes, so I'll compile it Wednesday night.

Until later,
Scott Boyd
- --
[e-mail]
http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD  27-06-01  (Quadrilateral [6])

Classic FOTD -- June 27, 2001 (Rating 6)

Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts:

The parent fractal of today's image must be seen to believed.
One outzoom is needed before the entire thing will fit on the
screen, but once this is done, a fractal with more convolutions
than a junkyard dog has fleas appears.  This parent is one of
the most enigmatic figures I have yet stumbled upon.  It has
narrow valleys, broad valleys, mandel-buds, near-mandel buds,
plus an unlimited number of holes and indents of various and
assorted sizes and shapes.

The broad features are those of a high-order Mandeloid or Julia
set, but these features do not make up the entire fractal.
Rather, they form a kind of pattern theme around the smaller,
more irregular features.

Today's scene lies in one of the broader valleys.  I named it
"Mathematical Scythes" when the reddish crescent-shaped features
impressed me as blades of scythes.  Actually, with its strong
reds and greens, the scene has a rather Christmasy look about
it, but since we are about as far from Christmas as it is
possible to be, I decided against the Christmas theme.  I rated
the image a 6, since it is a bit above my long-term average.

The simple formula (1/Z)-Z^(300)+(1/C) created the parent
fractal.  Taken by itself (1/Z)+C does little, and Z^300+C does
little more.  But when combined, and when 1/C instead of C is
added, these two expressions work wonders.

One of the wonders, which is today's FOTD, can be seen by
running the Fractint parameter file attached to the bottom of
this letter.  The parameter file renders in only 5-1/2 minutes
on my tired old Pentium 200mhz machine, but notably faster on
one of the current screaming fireballs.

The alternate way of viewing the scene is to go to one of the
internet web sites where the GIF file of the image will soon be
posted.  Paul's site can be found at:

          <http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/FotD/FotD.html>

and Scott's is at:

          <http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/fotd/index.html>

The fractal weather today was the image of a lazy summer day,
with sunny but hazy skies, unhealthy air, and a temperature of
90F (32C) that kept Thomas happy.  Tippy however was not happy,
since it was the day for his annual visit to the doctor.  He
cried all the way there and back.  After being pronounced
healthy, he cried all the way back, and then sulked for several
hours before becoming his normal self.  Thomas was glad it was
not his time to go to the doctor, but his time is not far off.

And my time to do some useful work has arrived.  In fact, it
arrived an hour ago, and I've yet to get started.  So until next
time, take care, and regardless of how many fractals we find,
the number of fractals yet to be found will never be reduced.


Jim Muth
[e-mail]


START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================

Mathematic_Scythes { ; time=0:05:28.34--SF5 on a p200
  reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=allinone.frm
  formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1
  center-mag=-19.25482682013031000/-0.26917358759950\
  070/6407.871/1/52.5 params=1/-1/-1/300/0/0 float=y
  maxiter=4000 inside=0 logmap=91 periodicity=10
  colors=0007ma7mb6nc6nd6oe5pf5pg5qh5qi6oh7mg7kf8ie9\
  he9fdAdcBbbB`aC_aDY`DW_EUZFSYFRYGQUGQRHQOHQKIPHIPE\
  JPAJP7JP4NR5QT6TU7WW8_X9bZAe`BhaClcDodErfFugFqeImc\
  LiaOe_RaYUYWXUU_QSbVQYZPUbNQfMMjLHnJDrI9vH5uG5tG5s\
  G5rG5qF5qF5pF5oF5nE5mE5mE5lE5kD5jD5iD5iD5dG9_IDVKH\
  QMLLOPHQTLSVOUWSWYVYZZ_`aaaecchedVWkINr5EyBAlG7`L4\
  PQ1DR3GS5JT7LT9OUBQVDTWFVWGYXI_YKbZMdZOg_Qi`Sl`Tn9\
  1wB2pD2jF2cH3YJ3RL3LM3FJBMGJTDQZAYe8dkC`gGXcKT_OPW\
  SLSWHOZELXJHVODTTARY6Qa3QXBQSIQNQQIXQEcVGbZHabIagK\
  `kL_oM_mTSkZKieChk4_m7SnAJoCBpF3qH7rNArTDrZGrcKsiN\
  soQsuTszWrwYru_qsaqqcqoeplgpjiohkofmodonaqn_smYumW\
  wmUulTtlSskRrkQpkPojOnjNmiMkiLjiKihJhiIgjHdkGalFZm\
  EWnDToCQpBNqAKr9Hs8Et7Cu7EvDGwJIxOKyUMz_OzdQzjBzcC\
  zdDzeEzeFzfFzfGzgHzgIzh_zqezpkznqzlwzkmzBsz_yzwZzu\
  9zsQziez`uzSmzXez`ZzdRziJzmCzqDzoEznFzlGzkHzjIzjIz\
  iCzECz9Cz4BzCAzK9zS8zZ7z`
  }

frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth
a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2),
g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j,
k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel):
z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c,
|z| < l
}

END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE==================================


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD  27-06-01  (Mathematical Scythes [6])

Classic FOTD -- June 27, 2001 (Rating 6)

Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts:

This version of the FOTD has the correct name in the subject
line.

The parent fractal of today's image must be seen to believed.
One outzoom is needed before the entire thing will fit on the
screen, but once this is done, a fractal with more convolutions
than a junkyard dog has fleas appears.  This parent is one of
the most enigmatic figures I have yet stumbled upon.  It has
narrow valleys, broad valleys, mandel-buds, near-mandel buds,
plus an unlimited number of holes and indents of various and
assorted sizes and shapes.

The broad features are those of a high-order Mandeloid or Julia
set, but these features do not make up the entire fractal.
Rather, they form a kind of pattern theme around the smaller,
more irregular features.

Today's scene lies in one of the broader valleys.  I named it
"Mathematical Scythes" when the reddish crescent-shaped features
impressed me as blades of scythes.  Actually, with its strong
reds and greens, the scene has a rather Christmasy look about
it, but since we are about as far from Christmas as it is
possible to be, I decided against the Christmas theme.  I rated
the image a 6, since it is a bit above my long-term average.

The simple formula (1/Z)-Z^(300)+(1/C) created the parent
fractal.  Taken by itself (1/Z)+C does little, and Z^300+C does
little more.  But when combined, and when 1/C instead of C is
added, these two expressions work wonders.

One of the wonders, which is today's FOTD, can be seen by
running the Fractint parameter file attached to the bottom of
this letter.  The parameter file renders in only 5-1/2 minutes
on my tired old Pentium 200mhz machine, but notably faster on
one of the current screaming fireballs.

The alternate way of viewing the scene is to go to one of the
internet web sites where the GIF file of the image will soon be
posted.  Paul's site can be found at:

          <http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/FotD/FotD.html>

and Scott's is at:

          <http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/fotd/index.html>

The fractal weather today was the image of a lazy summer day,
with sunny but hazy skies, unhealthy air, and a temperature of
90F (32C) that kept Thomas happy.  Tippy however was not happy,
since it was the day for his annual visit to the doctor.  He
cried all the way there and back.  After being pronounced
healthy, he cried all the way back, and then sulked for several
hours before becoming his normal self.  Thomas was glad it was
not his time to go to the doctor, but his time is not far off.

And my time to do some useful work has arrived.  In fact, it
arrived an hour ago, and I've yet to get started.  So until next
time, take care, and regardless of how many fractals we find,
the number of fractals yet to be found will never be reduced.


Jim Muth
[e-mail]


START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================

Mathematic_Scythes { ; time=0:05:28.34--SF5 on a p200
  reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=allinone.frm
  formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1
  center-mag=-19.25482682013031000/-0.26917358759950\
  070/6407.871/1/52.5 params=1/-1/-1/300/0/0 float=y
  maxiter=4000 inside=0 logmap=91 periodicity=10
  colors=0007ma7mb6nc6nd6oe5pf5pg5qh5qi6oh7mg7kf8ie9\
  he9fdAdcBbbB`aC_aDY`DW_EUZFSYFRYGQUGQRHQOHQKIPHIPE\
  JPAJP7JP4NR5QT6TU7WW8_X9bZAe`BhaClcDodErfFugFqeImc\
  LiaOe_RaYUYWXUU_QSbVQYZPUbNQfMMjLHnJDrI9vH5uG5tG5s\
  G5rG5qF5qF5pF5oF5nE5mE5mE5lE5kD5jD5iD5iD5dG9_IDVKH\
  QMLLOPHQTLSVOUWSWYVYZZ_`aaaecchedVWkINr5EyBAlG7`L4\
  PQ1DR3GS5JT7LT9OUBQVDTWFVWGYXI_YKbZMdZOg_Qi`Sl`Tn9\
  1wB2pD2jF2cH3YJ3RL3LM3FJBMGJTDQZAYe8dkC`gGXcKT_OPW\
  SLSWHOZELXJHVODTTARY6Qa3QXBQSIQNQQIXQEcVGbZHabIagK\
  `kL_oM_mTSkZKieChk4_m7SnAJoCBpF3qH7rNArTDrZGrcKsiN\
  soQsuTszWrwYru_qsaqqcqoeplgpjiohkofmodonaqn_smYumW\
  wmUulTtlSskRrkQpkPojOnjNmiMkiLjiKihJhiIgjHdkGalFZm\
  EWnDToCQpBNqAKr9Hs8Et7Cu7EvDGwJIxOKyUMz_OzdQzjBzcC\
  zdDzeEzeFzfFzfGzgHzgIzh_zqezpkznqzlwzkmzBsz_yzwZzu\
  9zsQziez`uzSmzXez`ZzdRziJzmCzqDzoEznFzlGzkHzjIzjIz\
  iCzECz9Cz4BzCAzK9zS8zZ7z`
  }

frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth
a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2),
g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j,
k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel):
z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c,
|z| < l
}

END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE==================================


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:34:17 -0500
From: "nltnme" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) need some assistance... third attempt to post

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0FF48.89B76680
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've played around with fractint for a number of years... on and off.

I'm not really a programmer type.  I would like to set up the printer to =
print a ps file... i believe I did it once in an older version of =
fractint, running on a DOS machine.

but with windowsME, i'm not quite sure how to set things up.  maybe =
someone can walk me thru that.

Next.  I'd like to know if there is a formula that with do a Mandelbrott =
in reverse... that is.. fill the blue lake areas with the colors of the =
shore line.

Next.  There is a formula I use at work... would be lengthy to explain =
here... but involves some basic variable which are multiplied, results =
multiplied by other varialble, result divided.. I would like to.. for =
the fun of it... see what kind of factal the results would generate.  Is =
there anyone out there that might be able to assist me?

Thanks in advance to all

nltnme

- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0FF48.89B76680
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've played around with fractint for a =
number of=20
years... on and off.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm not really a programmer type.  =
I would=20
like to set up the printer to print a ps file... i believe I did it once =
in an=20
older version of fractint, running on a DOS machine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but with windowsME, i'm not quite sure =
how to set=20
things up.  maybe someone can walk me thru that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Next.  I'd like to know if there =
is a formula=20
that with do a Mandelbrott in reverse... that is.. fill the blue lake =
areas with=20
the colors of the shore line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Next.  There is a formula I use at =
work...=20
would be lengthy to explain here... but involves some basic variable =
which are=20
multiplied, results multiplied by other varialble, result divided.. I =
would like=20
to.. for the fun of it... see what kind of factal the results would=20
generate.  Is there anyone out there that might be able to assist=20
me?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance to all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>nltnme</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0FF48.89B76680--


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:20:00 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 20-06-01 (A Midget at Midnight [7])

- ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C0FF81.37110420
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> As for me, I've got things that need to be done, and limited
> time in which to do them.  So the rational thing is to get busy.
> Until next FOTD, take care, and where are those Herman Rings?

More to the point: What the hell are Herman Rings? :-)<br clear=3Dall><hr=
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.=
hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p>

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> As for me=
, I've got things that need to be done, and limited<BR>> time in which=
 to do them.  So the rational thing is to get busy.<BR>> Until ne=
xt FOTD, take care, and where are those Herman Rings?<BR></DIV> <DIV>More=
 to the point: What the hell are Herman Rings? :-)</DIV></BODY></HTML><DI=
V><BR><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail =
at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p>=
</DIV>

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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:21:11 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 20-06-01 (A Midget at Midnight [7])

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> First time I ever actually ran the PAR, rather than go
> look att he picture on the web. 27 minutes on a Duron
> 700, running Fractint under OS/2...

You mean, someone out there actually still uses OS/2? :-)<br clear=3Dall>=
<hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://w=
ww.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p>

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> First tim=
e I ever actually ran the PAR, rather than go<BR>> look att he picture=
 on the web. 27 minutes on a Duron<BR>> 700, running Fractint under OS=
/2...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You mean, someone out there actually s=
till uses OS/2? :-)</DIV></BODY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Y=
our Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmai=
l.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p></DIV>

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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:25:37 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Yay! XFractint working - Just not in 24-bpp X?

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> Hmm... must try that!

> (BTW, in what language is "munged" a word?!?!)

Hackish.

http://www.tuxedo.org<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail fr=
om MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.c=
om</a>.<br></p>

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> Hmm... mu=
st try that!<BR><BR>> (BTW, in what language is "munged" a word?!?!)<B=
R></DIV> <DIV>Hackish.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http://www=
.tuxedo.org">http://www.tuxedo.org</A></DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV></BODY>=
</HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MS=
N Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a=
>.<br></p></DIV>

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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:37:30 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 21-06-01 (Fractal Caterpillars [6])

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> I'm thinking of purchasing another fractal computer, a state-of-
> the-art machine, so I would be interested in hearing reports of
> the time required to render today's particularly difficult scene
> on different machines with different CPU's.  If I do make the
> purchase, I want to be sure I'm getting the fastest fractal
> rendering machine possible.

Unfortunately, there's no one answer to this question, and never will be.=
 There's always a cost-speed curve of available computers. If you can spa=
re a billion or so, you might want a Cray YMP or even a Connection Machin=
e. The latter could simultaneously devote a CPU to each pixel. For a hund=
red K or so, you could have an SGI workstation, with *really* impressive =
graphics and good numeric speed. In the same range, you could get a batch=
 of PCs and link them up into a Beowulf cluster, and probably achieve the=
 same capabilities as the Connection Machine for a fraction the cost. Jus=
t watch the electric bill. If you have a few thousand dollars, for the pr=
ice of a slightly used sedan you can get a Mac G4, which won't run Fracti=
nt, but will run fast enough that it is officially classed as a supercomp=
uter and cannot be exported to Tier 7 nations like Libya. (I think the go=
vernment's concern is that they'll use supercomputing to design nuclear w=
eapons -- unfortunately, these restrictions are pointless, since they'll =
just co-opt an American scientist for nuclear secrets like China did, or =
if worse comes to worst, buy some cheap IBMs from BuckADay.com and cobble=
 up a Beowulf cluster. Maybe the way to peace in those areas is to quit t=
he export laws and start weaving these countries into the global economy =
to such an extent that they can't possibly nuke anyone without killing of=
f one of their economy's important suppliers or consumers?)
A lower-end RISC chip like the Alpha is another option. If you have a mer=
ely mortal ability to take financial punishment, then a recent Athlon, Du=
ron, or Pentium III or IV CPU is your choice. There are price lists with =
comparisons of FPU performance, integer performance, and other characteri=
stics out there on the net for these Intel-family CPUs. Even among these,=
 a curve of available power is apparent, with generally more money needed=
 to get a faster box.<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail fr=
om MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.c=
om</a>.<br></p>

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> I'm think=
ing of purchasing another fractal computer, a state-of-<BR>> the-art m=
achine, so I would be interested in hearing reports of<BR>> the time r=
equired to render today's particularly difficult scene<BR>> on differe=
nt machines with different CPU's.  If I do make the<BR>> purchase=
, I want to be sure I'm getting the fastest fractal<BR>> renderin=
g machine possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunately, there's n=
o one answer to this question, and never will be. There's always a cost-s=
peed curve of available computers. If you can spare a billion or so, you =
might want a Cray YMP or even a Connection Machine. The latter could simu=
ltaneously devote a CPU to each pixel. For a hundred K or so, you could h=
ave an SGI workstation, with *really* impressive graphics and good numeri=
c speed. In the same range, you could get a batch of PCs and link them up=
 into a Beowulf cluster, and probably achieve the same capabilities as th=
e Connection Machine for a fraction the cost. Just watch the electri=
c bill. If you have a few thousand dollars, for the price of a slightly u=
sed sedan you can get a Mac G4, which won't run Fractint, but will run fa=
st enough that it is officially classed as a supercomputer and cannot be =
exported to Tier 7 nations like Libya. (I think the government's concern =
is that they'll use supercomputing to design nuclear weapons -- unfortuna=
tely, these restrictions are pointless, since they'll just co-opt an Amer=
ican scientist for nuclear secrets like China did, or if worse comes to w=
orst, buy some cheap IBMs from BuckADay.com and cobble up a Beowulf clust=
er. Maybe the way to peace in those areas is to quit the export laws and =
start weaving these countries into the global economy to such an ext=
ent that they can't possibly nuke anyone without killing off one of their=
 economy's important suppliers or consumers?)<BR>A lower-end RISC chip li=
ke the Alpha is another option. If you have a merely mortal ability to ta=
ke financial punishment, then a recent Athlon, Duron, or Pentium III or I=
V CPU is your choice. There are price lists with comparisons of FPU perfo=
rmance, integer performance, and other characteristics out there on the n=
et for these Intel-family CPUs. Even among these, a curve of available po=
wer is apparent, with generally more money needed to get a faster box.</D=
IV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><=
hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://ww=
w.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p></DIV>

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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:41:00 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Yay! XFractint working - Just not in 24-bpp X?

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> Is anyone other than me getting multiple copies of the Lavoie, Jone, an=
d Coppin Posts? =20

It's gotta be the xmission listserv. A while back it was duplicating mine=
; then for a day or so it was spitting out three, four, even five copies =
of mine, before it suddenly started behaving normally. Now it seems to be=
 happening again to other posters... Weird.<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your P=
rivate, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com=
">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p>

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> Is anyone=
 other than me getting multiple copies of the Lavoie, Jone, and Coppin Po=
sts? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's gotta be the xmission listserv. A=
 while back it was duplicating mine; then for a day or so it was spitting=
 out three, four, even five copies of mine, before it suddenly started be=
having normally. Now it seems to be happening again to other posters... W=
eird.</DIV></BODY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your Private, F=
ree E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://=
www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p></DIV>

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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:11:31 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Midgets...

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> Hmm, could you make a command line version that could
> take parameters from the command line or via a batch
> file, then display the results? Is there some way to
> save the results? It sounds like fun!

Mine already does save the results. OTOH it needs to be recompiled to cha=
nge its settings.<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from M=
SN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</=
a>.<br></p>

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> Hmm, coul=
d you make a command line version that could<BR>> take parameters from=
 the command line or via a batch<BR>> file, then display the results? =
Is there some way to<BR>> save the results? It sounds like fun!<BR></D=
IV> <DIV>Mine already does save the results. OTOH it needs to be recompil=
ed to change its settings.</DIV></BODY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><h=
r>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href=3D"http://www=
.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p></DIV>

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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:58:45 -1000
From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 20-06-01 (A Midget at Midnight [7])

On 28 Jun 01 at 3:21, Multiple Bogeys wrote:

> > First time I ever actually ran the PAR, rather than go
> > look att he picture on the web. 27 minutes on a Duron
> > 700, running Fractint under OS/2...
>
> You mean, someone out there actually still uses OS/2?
> :-)

Yup, quite a goodly number of us. Fractint runs happily
on my Tower box (AMD 350MHz K6-2, 128MB PC100 RAM, 12GB
total of disk space, Elsa GLoria Synergy adaptor) under
OS/2. Under W9x on the same box, it hangs the system,
fighting over the display adaptor with Windows.

I also run OS/2 on the Duron box, a 700MHz Duron
processor with 256MB of PC133 memory and 30GB of disk
space, and a Voodoo3-based video card. Fractint runs
happily on it, and the change in video cards restored
Fractint's ability to run high display resolutions (the
Elsa card doesn't support any VESA modes except
640*480*256).

I'm still trying to get Windows to install on the Duron
box. But then, it took four tries to get Windows to
install on the Tower.

With disk video modes, I can run Fractint under either OS
at higher resolutions in the background, but doing so
under W9x makes everything else too jerky to use. OS/2
multitasks *much* better than W9x - no jerkiness in other
programs while Fractint is rendering something.

I also run Linux, too. I'd love to see Fractint's
capabilities available as a GIMP plug-in ... ;-)

David
[e-mail]


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End of fractint-digest V1 #577
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