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fractint-digest          Monday, May 24 1999          Volume 01 : Number 392




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:45:25 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: (fractint) HEY!]

Paul asked:

> Any ideas what the devil is with that image?

Does the problem go away if you don't use logmap?

> Any ideas why this particular mini Mandelbrot is "special" or "cursed"?

I think it is a logmap bug. I'll ask Jonathan.

> In any case, what's the status of the developer version?

Most of the recent activity has has to do with some sound
enhancements and Linux. I need to think through what has to be
done to release a public beta. Fractint time has been scarce
recently. We would like to release a public beta fairly soon.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: 22 May 99 15:40:55 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: (fractint) HEY!]]

"Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> Any ideas what the devil is with that image?

> Does the problem go away if you don't use logmap?

I dunno. I doubt it. I always use logmap when I'm deep. To do otherwise l=
eaves
you with something resembling video static in technicolor. Anyways, logma=
p
shouldn't affect image generation and restarting or cause hangs... except=
 to
force a restart if you tweak it on the 'x' screen of course. Then again, =
we
are dealing with a bug here so I suppose anything is possible. I would th=
ink
it more likely the arbitrary precision code... I thought maybe it doesn't=
 like
some images that are an atom's width above the x axis.

>> Any ideas why this particular mini Mandelbrot is "special" or "cursed"=
?

> I think it is a logmap bug. I'll ask Jonathan.

Any particular reasons for suspecting the logmap? I would expect the logm=
ap
doesn't notice arbitrary precision. It just takes an int from 0 to 214748=
3647,
converts it to a double I suppose, then divides maxiter and takes a logar=
ithm,
or something similar. I could probably construct the C code from my knowl=
edge
and a libm reference...

>> In any case, what's the status of the developer version?

> Most of the recent activity has has to do with some sound =

> enhancements and Linux. I need to think through what has to be =

> done to release a public beta. Fractint time has been scarce =

> recently. We would like to release a public beta fairly soon.

Hm. Sound and Linux... I thought the top items on the wishlist were bugfi=
xes,
truecolor, and deepzooming for all escape time fractals. :-)
(Oh, and didn't somebody ask for synchronous orbits?)


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------------------------------

Date: 22 May 99 21:26:10 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Wishlist observation

Noticed anything about the fractint wishlist? A sizable proportion of req=
uests
are for features that are already in Fractint, but obscure. E.g. one guy =
asks
for a way to get the coordinate values, havoing apparently not discovered=
 the
'n' command.

Yes, they ought to read the dox. However, the dox might be improved by ad=
ding
a remark in the introductory screen, saying that if you think you want a
feature, it might already exist, read the "Doodads, bells and whistles" p=
age
and see. Some people seem not to find themselves compelled to read that p=
art
of the dox...


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 18:05:03 +0200
From: Vanna <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 5 top tips...

Hello :-)

I wonder..what would be Your 5 top tips for a novice (newbie,
greenhorne or whatever the word is...I'm "qualified" for all of
them :-)   )

Thanks !

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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:03:29 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Visit Genum

I visit your site and I vote.
It's a very interesting site and it works quite fine.

Best regards
Patrick Lourde

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:46:32 +0800
From: "Li Lei" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Self-similar traffic

Dear All,

I want to know the how the  self-similar traffic(or fractal traffic) affect
the performace of queue and how to apply the  properties of self-similar
traffic in the design of switch or router.

Thanks a lot.

Li Lei




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:40:31 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Can't save ei

Paul (Derbyshire),

  Regarding your problems with deep zooms:

1) what resolution are you using?

2) are you using savetime with passes=3Dg?

3) have you tried passes=3D1?

4) have you played with the mathtolerance command?

I could not duplicate any problems at 1600x1200 with passes=3D1 on any of=
 the
pars you posted (although I did not complete the long ones).  No problems=

with resuming.

Lee

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------------------------------

Date: 23 May 99 21:58:54 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [(fractint) Can't save ei]

>  Regarding your problems with deep zooms:

> 1) what resolution are you using?

1024x768x256, SF3. (DOes SF3 differ from SF7 in any way?)

> 2) are you using savetime with passes=3Dg?

Nope. I am aware that savetime causes an interrupt that sets it back to t=
he
start of the row. I've seen very slow deepzooms where you need to make
savetime big or turn it off to avoid it repeating one row forever. The pr=
oblem
I'm seeing is something else.

> 3) have you tried passes=3D1?

Yes. The problem persisted. As with passes=3Dt, passes=3Db.

> 4) have you played with the mathtolerance command?

Nope, what is that?

> I could not duplicate any problems at 1600x1200 with passes=3D1 on any =
of >
the pars you posted (although I did not complete the long ones).  No
> problems with resuming.

Try 1024x768. It's sensitive to the exact zoom factor and pixel size in
mandelunits. Zoom in a bit and the problem vanishes, and at 1600x1200 you=
 have
essentially zoomed in a bit as a pixel is smaller in mandelspace.


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:31:08 -0700
From: "Mike and Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 5 top tips...

Hi, Vanna!

Well, I think my top 5 (and not necessarily in any particular order) are
(at this moment in time):

1 - Practice makes perfect.  It takes awhile to learn the program, and
you have to (or at least, I had to) develop an eye for identifying local
areas of interest to zoom in on.  So don't give up!  Keep trying.

2 - Dissecting the par files that are posted to this mailing list can be
a great help, too.  By changing one variable at a time, you will begin
to see patterns that you can use in developing your own images.

3 - Print out the documentation included in the Fractint program.  And
learn how to navigate through it.  Great stuff there!

4 - Try to reason out the problems that confront you in using the
program.  But if you can't figure something out, ask questions.  This is
a good forum for questions.

5 - Learn how to design your own colormaps.  Or you can download some
nice ones from
http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/fractint_maps/newmaps.htm.  It's
amazing the difference that a good colormap can make!

Happy fractaling!
Linda

http://www.geocities.com/~gumbycat/mirror.html



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:18:12 +0400 (MSD)
From: "Tony Hanmer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Lyapunov type and symmetry

I have discovered a high degree of symmetry in some Lyapunov fractals,
specifically of orders 2, 12 & 38.  This is at a 45 deg angle, and bilateral.
In orders 2 & 38 the images produced are very close to being identical!  Zooming
in and changing the angle to 45 deg results ni the symmetry becoming vertical,
and quite striking.
So far these are the only 3 orders I have found with this symmetry, and I can't
discover a numerical pattern progression so far.  I have read the notes on
Lyapunov types in Fractint - is there any more documentation out there on the
type?  Any answers about to the symmetry of these orders - or is it just a strange
coincidence?

Tony Hanmer



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------------------------------

Date: 24 May 99 05:28:10 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Feature idea

How about a new passes=3D option that compromises between passes=3D1 and =
passes=3Db?
This would apply the 'b' behavior only to areas of solid inside with
inside=3Dnnn set. That way if passes=3Db is making errors on a particular=
 image,
you can go to passes=3D1 accuracy and keep the nice feature that passes=3D=
b with
inside=3Dnnn will eliminate all of the lake areas with just their boundar=
ies.
(passes=3Db never makes errors on lake boundaries.)

Another idea would be to make an option that uses passes=3Db behavior on =
lakes
but passes=3Dt behavior outside.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 06:46:49 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: last bug report

Paul wrote:

Paul wrote:

> Regarding "bug1", I interrupted it and hit tab. It said "Interrupted,
> resumable." When I returned, it started over of course... It did NOT say
> "nonresumable".

Paul, these examples of yours are so slow they are extremely hard
to debug. Especially when you you demand 24 hour turn around
<heh heh!> This is a major challenge.

Running the developer executable did not seem to help, However,
since the fractal is right on the fringes of magnification requiring
arbitrary precision, I added bfdigits=20 to the command line
(several more digits than were automatically selected) and it ran to
completion.

The trouble with this sort of fix is one has no idea whether it
disguises the real problem or fixes it. I will say, though, that I am
not happy with fractint's caalculation of the needed precision,
especially for rotated or skewed fractals. The bfdigits command
lets you set whatever you want, for arbitrary precision at least.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: 24 May 99 06:27:21 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Distance Estimator

I appear to have found a glitch with distance estimator. Run the above pa=
r in
SF3. It works normally, completes in under 2 minutes on a 400 MHz PII.

Now zoom onto the square object in the center. Make the zoombox just encl=
ose
the block and its four shorter spikes. Ta-da: you've found a bug.

I expect it's some sort of problem with distance estimator and arbitrary
precision, since it should just be going over into arbitrary at that zoom=
=2E



demtest            {
  reset=3D1960 type=3Dmandel passes=3Dt
  center-mag=3D-1.74919514436631300/-0.00000000000000000/4.565163e+011
  params=3D0/0 float=3Dy maxiter=3D65536 inside=3D2 outside=3D2
  distest=3D-1/71/1024/768
  colors=3DAAAzzz0000eee00e0eeL0eeeLLLLLzLzLLzzzLLzLzzzLzzz000555<3>HHHKK=
KOO\
  OSSSWWW___ccchhhmmmssszzz00z<3>z0z<3>z00<3>zz0<3>0z0<3>0zz<2>0GzVVz<3>z=
V\
  z<3>zVV<3>zzV<3>VzV<3>Vzz<2>Vbzhhz<3>zhz<3>zhh<3>zzh<3>hzh<3>hzz<2>hlz0=
0\
  S<3>S0S<3>S00<3>SS0<3>0S0<3>0SS<2>07SEES<3>SES<3>SEE<3>SSE<3>ESE<3>ESS<=
2\
  >EHSKKS<2>QKSSKSSKQSKOSKMSKK<2>SQKSSKQSKOSKMSKKSK<2>KSQKSSKQSKOSKMS00G<=
3\
  >G0G<3>G00<3>GG0<3>0G0<3>0GG<2>04G88G<2>E8GG8GG8EG8CG8AG88<2>GE8GG8EG8C=
G\
  8AG88G8<2>8GE8GG8EG8CG8AGBBG<2>FBGGBGGBFGBDGBCGBB<2>GFBGGBFGBDGBCGBBGB<=
2\
  >BGFBGGBFGBDGBCG000<6>000
  }


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------------------------------

Date: 24 May 99 07:27:29 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [(fractint) Re: last bug report]

"Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> Regarding "bug1", I interrupted it and hit tab. It said "Interrupted,
>> resumable." When I returned, it started over of course... It did NOT
>> say "nonresumable".

> Paul, these examples of yours are so slow they are extremely hard =

> to debug... This is a major challenge.

Unfortunately, them's the breaks when dealing with arbitrary precision bu=
gs.
:P

I have checked and checked and the problem does not ever occur below arbi=
trary
precision -- not that I've seen anyway.

I found a location other than that particular mini Mandelbrot where it oc=
curs.
It is *near* that area though -- still in the elephant valley center spik=
e in
the period 3 mini Mandelbrot.

> Running the developer executable did not seem to help, However, =

> since the fractal is right on the fringes of magnification requiring =

> arbitrary precision, I added bfdigits=3D20 to the command line =

> (several more digits than were automatically selected) and it ran to =

> completion.

I've only seen it at the fringe too. Usually when it says 16 decimals... =
not
17 or more.

The hanging bug however seems to occur with any depth.

> The trouble with this sort of fix is one has no idea whether it =

> disguises the real problem or fixes it.

I think if you force 17 or more digits the problem will go away. If it ev=
er
crops up again you know you disguised it and can continue trying to figur=
e it
out then... but chances are it will permanently go away.

> I will say, though, that I am not happy with fractint's calculation of
> the needed precision, especially for rotated or skewed fractals.

These, to make a point, were not rotated or skewed.



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:52:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Field <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) IFS Generator

Michael Sargent asked me to post this notice:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:25:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Sargent <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: flame

   I've written a program for Windows 95 called QS Flame. It's a free-
standing (and free) program that plots the beautiful attractors created
by Scott Draves, which he describes as "cosmic recursive fractal flames".
For further information on these images, refer to the online help file,
and check Scott's Web site: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~spot/flame.html

   The program is intended to use 24 or 32 bit "true color" graphics modes
(16 million colors). But it also will work, with some limitations, in 8 bit
modes (256 colors) and also 15 and 16 bit "high color" modes (the latter are
not recommended). It will render images in resolutions up to 1600 x 1200.
They can be saved to disk as GIF or TARGA files, depending on the graphics
mode. The program uses 256-color palettes, which you can import from
standard Fractint MAP files. The colors are blended by a filtering algorithm
in true color modes. The parameter sets of individual images can be saved as
small binary files to allow re-rendering of the images.

   The program, along with my other fractal programs, is available at my
Web site. You also can find sample images there.

   Michael Sargent
   <[e-mail]>
   http://www.uvm.edu/~msargent/







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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:54:49 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Distance Esti

Paul D.,

>> I appear to have found a glitch with distance estimator. Run the above=

par in SF3. It works normally, completes in under 2 minutes on a 400 MHz
PII.

Now zoom onto the square object in the center. Make the zoombox just
enclose the block and its four shorter spikes. Ta-da: you've found a bug.=


I expect it's some sort of problem with distance estimator and arbitrary
precision, since it should just be going over into arbitrary at that zoom=
.
<<

That's exactly it.  There are lots of things you cannot do yet with
arbitrary precision, and the distance estimator, various inside and outsi=
de
options, etc. are examples.  It took several months just to bring up the
browser to the working level where it would see arbitrary precision image=
s.

Lee

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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:54:47 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: [(fractint) Can't save e

Paul D.,
>> 1024x768x256, SF3. (DOes SF3 differ from SF7 in any way?) <<

Probably.  SF3 won't work with my Matrox Millennium adapter, but SF7 will=
.

>> 4) have you played with the mathtolerance command? <<

> Nope, what is that? <

Sorry.  Right now its only available in the developer's version

 "mathtolerance=3D.05/.05 command. The first number controls the
    integer/float transition, and the second number controls the
    float/arbitrary precision transition. The default value of .05 means
    that the ratio between the exact and calculated width and height is
    between .95 and 1.05. A larger value than .05 (say .10) makes the tes=
t
    looser so that the lower precision math is used longer. A value <=3D =
0
    means the test is always failed and the higher precision math type is=

    used. A value >=3D 1 means that the test is always passed and the low=
er
    precision math type is used.

    The automatic precision toggle is resolution dependent. The same imag=
e
    may use float at 320x200 and arbitrary precision at 640x480. This is
    not a bug; it has to work this way. At a given magnification more
    pixels require more precision. There are other tests so even with
    mathtolerance=3D1/.05, eventually Fractint will have to use float. Th=
e
    same is not true for mathtolerance=3D.05/1. If you keep zooming Fract=
int
    will not rescue you; eventually you'll get a nasty error message and
    the corners will be lost."

Lee

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Bennett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 5 top tips...

- --- Vanna  wrote:
> Hello :-)
>
> I wonder..what would be Your 5 top tips for a novice
> (newbie,
> greenhorne or whatever the word is...I'm "qualified"
> for all of
> them :-)   )
>
> Thanks !
>
Hi Vanna.
                My top five tips for a beginner at fractint would be.

        1) Experiment.
        2) Experiment.
        3) Experiment.
        4) Experiment
        5) Experiment

       Good Luck
         Tom
.

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Date: 24 May 99 10:10:11 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Feature idea

How about a % of pixels finished field on the tab and disk video screens?=
 It
is a real pain using tesseral and disk video because you haven't a clue h=
ow
much it has done, unlike in guessing or 1-pass.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:46:28 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [(fractint) Re: last bug report]

Paul, you sent three PARs to illustrate the bugs you are seeing.
One of the PARS was just illustrative of the area under question,
so two of the PARs indicated bugs. Is this right?

Upping the precision allowed bug1 to run as I mentioned before.
The PARS Whrlbrot and Whrlwhrl ran fine with no changes. All the
above were with the new developer executable. I used diskvideo.

My working hypothesis is that you have found rare cases where the
automatically-selected precision is too low. When this happens,
just bump up the precision. We may find a better solution later, but
there is a genuine tradeoff here. If the precision is bumped up for all
fractals, arbitrary precision will be selected earlier, and all fractals
will be slower.

I'm not planning to do any more on this now, other than beef up the
docs about the bfdigits command. I do have on my list revisiting
precision issues at some point.

What you should do on your end is confirm my solution.

Tim Wegner


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Date: 24 May 99 17:27:29 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [(fractint) Re: last bug report]]

"Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Paul, you sent three PARs to illustrate the bugs you are seeing. =

> One of the PARS was just illustrative of the area under question, =

> so two of the PARs indicated bugs. Is this right?

Yeah. The shallowest is the interesting area. Not even arbitrary IIRC.
The next deeper, on the fringe of arbitrary, has the spontaneous-restart =
bug.
The deepest has the hanging bug.

> Upping the precision allowed bug1 to run as I mentioned before.

Yes. I suspect a bug specific to the 16-digit variant.

> The PARS Whrlbrot and Whrlwhrl ran fine with no changes. All the =

> above were with the new developer executable. I used diskvideo. =


The whrlwhrl doesn't hang partway through pass 3? So that's fixed?

> My working hypothesis is that you have found rare cases where the =

> automatically-selected precision is too low.

Wouldn't the image just get a bit blocky then? It wouldn't restart itself=
 I
would think...

> When this happens, just bump up the precision.

Zooming in a few more page-ups seems to suffice. :-)

> We may find a better solution later, but there is a genuine tradeoff
> here. If the precision is bumped up for all fractals, arbitrary
> precision will be selected earlier, and all fractals will be slower.

No, the ones where it uses float are all fine. Just alter the selection
routine so if it chooses arbitrary and 16 digits it uses 17 digits instea=
d.
That will take care of all known instances.



On a side note: What's the status of truecolor and synchronous orbits?

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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:02:51 -0700
From: "Dave Hershey (Volt Computer)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint on NT

Fair enough.  :]

- --Dave.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Kellie Charlynn Angel Findley [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 11:36 PM
To: [e-mail]; '[e-mail]'
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint on NT


Well, I'm happy that you have a job so you can honestly pay your bills, but
I must admit I still avoid Windows ANYTHING like the plague!  :-)

- ----------
>
> Speaking as a STE 2, I can say a few nice things about it.  The most
> important nice thing about it is that it pays my rent, puts clothes on my
> back, and food into my stomach.  Can something that does all that really
be
> so bad?  Hmmm?
>
> --Dave.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kellie Charlynn Angel Findley [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 5:40 PM
> To: [e-mail]; '[e-mail]'
> Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint on NT
>
>
> Yes, but many of the older DOS programs end up with quirks when run in
> Window's pseudo "DOS" mode.  IMHO, Windows was the worst thing that ever
> happened to a computer.  I really can't say one nice thing about it, and
> yes, I am fully literate in it.
>
> ----------
> >
> > There will always be the command prompt in NT/Win2k.
> >
> > --Dave.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kellie Charlynn Angel Findley [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 4:04 PM
> > To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint on NT
> >
> >
> > Actually, it strikes terror in the hearts of those who abhore Windows
and
> > remain firmly rooted in DOS that there are many who would like to send
DOS
> > to the scrap heap.
> >
> > ----------
> > >
> > >
> > > In article <[e-mail]>,
> > >     "Allison, Joshua" <[e-mail]>  writes:
> > >
> > > > Has anyone had any experience with fractint on NT?
> > >
> > > Some people have reported success; others have reported problems.
> > > Expect fractint to evolve soon (not the next release, but maybe the
> > > release after that) into a native Win32 client where these problems
> > > of DOS compatability disappear.
> > > --
> > > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
> > >     ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
> > >       at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
> > > [e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> > > Post Message:   [e-mail]
> > > Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> > > Administrator:  [e-mail]
> > > Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> > Post Message:   [e-mail]
> > Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> > Administrator:  [e-mail]
> > Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
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> > Post Message:   [e-mail]
> > Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> > Administrator:  [e-mail]
> > Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:48:09 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [(fractint) Re: last bug report]]

Paul asked:

> The whrlwhrl doesn't hang partway through pass 3? So that's fixed?

All I can say is it ran on my system with no changes to the PAR
using the developer's executable at 1024x768 disk video. To assert
that it is "fixed" might be a stretch <grin!>

> Wouldn't the image just get a bit blocky then? It wouldn't restart itself I
> would think...

I don't know. To truly isolate  this we would have to do the following:

1. Use passes=1. Does the bug still happen with passes=1? (I
would think yes).
2. Try to locate exact pixel when it happens.
3. Fix precision using bfdigits= to the same number of digits
normally used. This is so we can experiment with lower rez
surrounding the offending pixel without changing precision.

I could do something really dumb like write each pixel corrdinate
 to a file to see where it crashes.

> On a side note: What's the status of truecolor and synchronous orbits?

truecolor - haven't done anything yet. This may wait until a 32 bit version of Fractint.

synchronous orbits - there are two relatively unintegrated versions in the exe you have.
By "unintegrated" I mean most options don't affect it. See the
what's new. One of the two versions is long double. It is turned on
with passes=

Tim


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Date: 24 May 99 20:11:40 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: [(fractint) Re: last bug report]]]

"Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Paul asked:

>> The whrlwhrl doesn't hang partway through pass 3? So that's fixed?

> All I can say is it ran on my system with no changes to the PAR =

> using the developer's executable at 1024x768 disk video. To assert =

> that it is "fixed" might be a stretch <grin!>

Tried 1024x768 regular video?

>> Wouldn't the image just get a bit blocky then? It wouldn't restart
>> itself I would think...

> I don't know. To truly isolate  this we would have to do the following:=


> 1. Use passes=3D1. Does the bug still happen with passes=3D1? (I =

> would think yes).

It does. I tested it with passes=3Dt and passes=3D1 after running into it=
 using
passes=3Dg. It showed up with all. I expect passes=3Db too. Except with t=
he image
not cleared, passes=3Db will scan the image and resume where it left off
anyways, and you won't notice. Unfortunately, many of the places where th=
e bug
shows up are places where passes=3Db is a poor choice because of the
afore-mentioned "inside-out" problem being prevalent.

BTW, amending my suggested passes=3Db "inside-out" fix: the inside-out me=
ans no
filling would of course NOT apply when the thing traced around was lake!
That's supposed to be filled and if it weren't 80% of the passes=3Db spee=
d
savings would be lost for some fractals...

> 2. Try to locate exact pixel when it happens.

There is no specific pixel. It restarts if you interrupt it in a
supposedly-resumable manner, such as color cycling or palette editing. Al=
so
make and then destroy a zoom box, go to a doodad window without changing
anything. Only tab and F1 fail to trigger it on susceptible parameter set=
s.

It also occurs spontaneously (yes, with savetime turned off) on susceptib=
le
images in an unpredictable manner. It may restart halfway through pass 1 =
or
right before the end of pass 4 in passes=3Dg for instance.

> 3. Fix precision using bfdigits=3D to the same number of digits =

> normally used. This is so we can experiment with lower rez =

> surrounding the offending pixel without changing precision.

There is no "offending pixel" as pointed out above.
I shall perform an experiment later tonight; I shall bfdigits=3D16 a defa=
ult
Mandel image and see if it becomes buggy. Then we can be fairly certain i=
t
occurs when and only when it's using 16 digits precision.

> I could do something really dumb like write each pixel corrdinate
> to a file to see where it crashes.

Useless. The restart is not specific to a pixel unlike the whrlwhrl hang.=
 It
is caused by interrupting and resuming and by some occasional POM-depende=
nt
event behind the scenes.

>> On a side note: What's the status of truecolor and synchronous orbits?=


> truecolor - haven't done anything yet. This may wait until a 32 bit
> version of Fractint.

20.0?
32-bits means no more worrying about freeing near space. And I know how m=
uch
you guys are trying to manage near space. And no overlays etc.

I recommend using DJGPP and Allegro to port a 32 bit version. Then you ca=
n use
Xwinallegro and WinAlleg to automatically compile simultaneously a Fracti=
nt,
Winfract, and Xfract of a given version. Allegro, Xwinallegro, and WinAll=
eg
are almost completely intercompatible.

http://www.delorie.com     DJGPP information and links to downloads
http://talula.demon.co.uk     Allegro information and downloads

> synchronous orbits - there are two relatively unintegrated versions in =
> the
exe you have.

There are? I looked at the passes=3D screen. I saw the new diffusion ...
interesting, especially with the progress meter, which is asymptotically
accurate since it should uniformly fill the image and thus sample it in a=

representative way. I did not see anything else. There was a patch histor=
y
entry about synchronous orbits, mentioning passes=3Ds; when I put that in=
 all I
got was passes=3D1.

> By "unintegrated" I mean most options don't affect it. See the =

> what's new. One of the two versions is long double. It is turned on =

> with passes=3D

With passes=3Dwhat???

Unintegrated, you mean, like distance estimator, decomp, etc. won't have =
any
effect?



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