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fractint-digest         Thursday, May 13 1999         Volume 01 : Number 387




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:35:25 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Two Pars

Ricardo,

>> I see you use reset=3D1961 in your pars. Is there a fractint version a=
fter
19.6? Where can I get it? <<

That is because I am using the developer's version of Fractint, which doe=
s
contain a few new features, but also has not been certified bug-free.

I think that the developers are getting ready to release a new version, o=
r
a beta version, soon.  Keep watching this list.

Lee

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:43:59 -0500
From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Two Pars

Who are these "developers", and why the closed model?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 9:35 PM
Subject: (fractint) Two Pars


Ricardo,

>> I see you use reset=1961 in your pars. Is there a fractint version after
19.6? Where can I get it? <<

That is because I am using the developer's version of Fractint, which does
contain a few new features, but also has not been certified bug-free.

I think that the developers are getting ready to release a new version, or
a beta version, soon.  Keep watching this list.

Lee



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:50:45 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Two Pars

Ricardo asked:

> I see you use reset=1961 in your pars. Is there a fractint version after
> 19.6? Where can I get it?

This is the developer's version. We are planning to release a public
beta soon.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:19:18 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Two more pars

Here are two more pars:

6ms07598           { ;                                       t=3D  0:01:1=
1.40
                     ; on a P233 at 1600x1200  May 05, 1999  22:16:28
                     ; Image Copyright 1999 by Lee H. Skinner ver=3D1961
                     ;  Version 1961 Patchlevel 71
  reset=3D1960 type=3Dmandel passes=3D1
  center-mag=3D-1.76884039665347800/+0.00228582777189063/5.98252e+007/1/-=
50
  params=3D0/0 float=3Dy maxiter=3D4096 inside=3D0 outside=3Dsumm rseed=3D=
- -2436
  colors=3D000txzrwzovz<3>NglGch8_d<3>8MS8JP8FL<3>717<3>Z54e63l72s81zA0<1=
1>R\
  50O40L40<3>920<8>UXAW`BZcD<3>hrI<3>UnXRm_NlcJkgFfpAaz<2>`Lz<6>nfUpiPrmL=
<\
  2>xv6zz1zzC<2>zzz<3>jqdfo_blU<3>Mb8<3>LQ8KM8KJ8<2>I88H44G00<3>TA5WD6ZF7=
a\
  I8eLAhMBiODjQF<3>qeBriAtm9vq8xu7zz5zz4zz3<8>zY4zV5zS5<3>zE6<13>J52G42D3=
2\
  <3>000000<2>903C04D05<21>d1`e1bf1c<3>k2i<4>R2UM1QI1N<3>009<3>0AL0DO0FR<=
2\
  >0N_0Qc1Rc<3>6Zc7`c8bcAdc<2>LhfOigQih<11>mttouuqvv<3>zzzxzzvyz
  sound=3Dbeep/pc
  }

6ms07609           { ;                                       t=3D  0:01:3=
0.52
                     ; on a P233 at 1600x1200  May 05, 1999  22:16:28
                     ; Image Copyright 1999 by Lee H. Skinner ver=3D1961
                     ;  Version 1961 Patchlevel 71
  reset=3D1960 type=3Dmandel passes=3D1
  center-mag=3D-0.16076045523795930/+1.03690858518634000/6.090172e+007/1/=
- -72\
  .5 params=3D0/0 float=3Dy maxiter=3D4096 inside=3D0 outside=3Dsumm rsee=
d=3D-2436
  colors=3D000yM5<3>zE6<2>lNCgQFeNDbJA<6>QD6OC6MB5<3>F73000000<7>O09R0AU0=
B<2\
  >b0Ee0Ff5I<4>oVZq_asee<3>zzs<3>pjWnfPkbJiZDfV7cQ0<3>SI0<3>RC0QA0Q80P60<=
2\
  >G00<3>4KW0Qc1Rc<3>6Zc7`c8bcAdc<7>bokepliqm<2>tupxwrzyt<3>zsZzqUzpOznJy=
l\
  Dxj2wiK<3>vc4ua0ub3<3>vhJviNvjPwkR<3>xqexriytmyuqzwu<7>yXayUZxQX<3>wCM<=
3\
  >bADYABS99N97H84<6>WG8YH8_I9<3>hMB<8>SE7QD6OC6<3>H84FB3PG3<3>iY2oa1tf1z=
k\
  0<3>0kk<2>WgD<3>CXF<5>IUDJTDKSDLSDMRCOQBORAOPA<3>OE6NB5PC6RD6zF7WG7<3>c=
K\
  9eLAhMB<3>lUInVJpXH<2>vdByg8yh5yi3<10>yO5 sound=3Dbeep/pc
  }

Lee Skinner

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 17:17:00 +1200
From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Purely mathematical

At 15:14 05/05/99 GMT, Andrew Coppin wrote:
>
>P. P. S. I'm talking to you Tim: So you can't generalise Complex
>Numbers into a 4D field... But *can* you generalise them into a 3D
>set without loosing any field properties? Just how complicated is the
>proof of there being no 4D fields (i.e. would someone like me
>understand it)?
>
No. Whether an explanation would satisfy you depends on what you already
know (any group theory? Since you seem to know what a field is, I assume
you know what groups/rings/fields are, in which case skip to the *-*-*-*;
or even the **-**-**, but for the benefit of people who aren't familiar
with either - and then only if they're interested enough ...)

<Engaging maths-style>

So first off I'll sketch out what a group is. A group is a set of things
and an operation that combines pairs of things to produce a thing that is
also in the set

The defining properties of a group are as follows. Assuming that we use '+'
to denote the operation (note that '+' doesn't necessarily mean addition as
we know it, just something that is compatible with these rules):
1) For all a, b, c in the group, (a+b)+c = a+(b+c)  (associativity)
2) There is an element e in the group such that a+e=e+a=a for all a.
(identity)
    (It can be proved that there can be only one such identity).
3) For all a in the group, there is an element b in the group such that
a+b=b+a=e (inverse).

Quick example: addition mod 4

+ | 0 1 2 3   0 is the identity
- --+--------   1 is the inverse of 3
0 | 0 1 2 3
1 | 1 2 3 0
2 | 2 3 0 1
3 | 3 0 1 2

An extra property may be included, stating that the operation commutes:

4) For all a, b in the group, a+b=b+a.

A group with this property (the example just given is one such) is known as
an "Abelian group".


Now, a ring. A ring is an enhancement of an Abelian group. As well as
having all the structure of an Abelian group, rings have a second operation
'*' and further rules:

5) For all a, b, c, a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c (so both operations are associative)
6) For all a, b, c, a*(b+c)=a*b+a*c and (b+c)*a=b*a+c*a (distributivity)

Again, commutivity is optional:

7) For all a, b in the ring, a*b=b*a.

A ring with this property is called a "commutative ring". An example would
be the ordinary integers with the operations of addition and multiplication.

Important thing to note about rings: There is no guarantee that every
element of the ring has an inverse under '*', nor is there any guarantee
that there is an element '1' such that 1*a=a*1=a.

To point to the previous example, integers don't come with integer inverses
(except 1 itself). To illustrate the second non-guarantee, consider the set
of _even_ integers with familiar addition and multiplication. The resulting
structure satisfies all seven rules, but there is no number n such that n
times m equals m for all m.


Now we can get on to a field.
A field is a ring. It is a commutative ring. It is a ring in which the two
properties noted just now _do_ hold. Every nonzero element has an inverse
under '*', and '*'ing an element by its inverse gives the same unique
element (known as 'unity' and conventionally written '1'.)

Nonzero? Ah, remember that the '+' operation that makes our structure a
group has an identity element. At the time I've written it 'e'. Now I'm
changing my notation and writing it '0' and calling it zero. A nonzero
element is any element other than 0. This, incidentally, is the rule broken
by "hypercomplex" numbers.

The rational numbers form a field. So do the reals. And the complex numbers.

*-*-*-*

Complex arithmetic has a group structure.
Consider that a complex number is one of the form a+ib, where i has the
property that ii=-1. For convenience one can draw up a little
multiplication table:

 + |  1 -1  i -i (I'm using '+' because this is a group)
- ---+------------
 1 |  1 -1  i -i This group is named "Z2+Z2"; it is equivalent to the group
- -1 | -1  1 -i  i formed by adding _pairs_ of integers mod 2.
 i |  i -i -1  1
- -i | -i  i  1 -1

Quaternion arithmetic has a group structure as well.
Consider that a quaternion number is one of the form a+ib+jc+kd, where i,
j, k has the property that ii=jj=kk=ijk=-1. One can again draw up a
multiplication table, but it would not necessarily be very illuminating.
You can do it if you want: It has eight elements 1, -1, i, -i, j, -j, k,
and -k. Just remember things like the fact that ij=-ji (multiplication is
not commutative - violating property (7) above and disqualifying Quaternion
arithmetic as a field).

The group generated by quaternion arithmetic has a name as well: Q4.

**-**-**

At this point I'm going to wave my hands and gloss over some of the most
powerful and deep theorems of group theory. But although _understanding_
them requires a textbook's worth of groundwork, for our purposes enough of
their results can be obtained by straightforward brute force: Build up
every possible multiplication table of sizes 1x1, 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, ...;
making sure that each one satisfies properties (1)-(3) of a group, and is
distinct and not simply a relabelling of elements or a reshuffling of rows
and colums of another.

I'm just going to give the result: how many groups there are of various
sizes (I'll even name them).

1-element groups: One. Z1
2-element groups: One. Z2
3-element groups: One. Z3
4-element groups: Two. Z4, Z2+Z2
5-element groups: One. Z5
6-element groups: Two. Z6, D3
7-element groups: One. Z7
8-element groups: Five. Z8, Z4+Z2, Z2+Z2+Z2, D4, Q4

Zn represents "addition mod n", Zn+Zm means adding pairs of integers mod
<n,m> (<a,b>+<c,d>=<a+c mod n,b+d mod m>). D3 and D4 are the symmetries of
an equilateral triangle and a square, respectively (the elements of the
group being rotations and reflections, and the operation a+b meaning "do a
then do b" - the identity element is of course "do nothing"). Q4 is
quaternion arithmetic.

To generalise complex numbers into higher dimensions, what you need is an
arithmetic structure that contains the structure of complex arithmetic. Of
all the groups just listed, the _only_ groups that contain such a structure
are the complex numbers themselves, and quaternions.

In particular, for a 3D generalisation, the group would need six elements
(1, -1, i, -i, j, -j). There are only two six-element groups: addition mod
6 (which obviously is inadequate), and the symmetries of an equilateral
triangle - which can also be shown to be unable to support complex arithmetic.

Morgan L. Owens



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 04:31:52 -0400
From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Two more pars

Hi Lee,

>> Here are a couple of pretty pars:
>>
>> Here are two more pars:

  Very nice images!

  Cheers,

        - Sylvie

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:44:13 GMT
From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Purely mathematical

Morgan L. Owens wrote:
> I'm just going to give the result: how many groups there are of various
> sizes (I'll even name them).
>
> 1-element groups: One. Z1
> 2-element groups: One. Z2
> 3-element groups: One. Z3
> 4-element groups: Two. Z4, Z2+Z2
> 5-element groups: One. Z5
> 6-element groups: Two. Z6, D3
> 7-element groups: One. Z7
> 8-element groups: Five. Z8, Z4+Z2, Z2+Z2+Z2, D4, Q4
>
> Zn represents "addition mod n", Zn+Zm means adding pairs of integers mod
> <n,m> (<a,b>+<c,d>=<a+c mod n,b+d mod m>). D3 and D4 are the symmetries of
> an equilateral triangle and a square, respectively (the elements of the
> group being rotations and reflections, and the operation a+b meaning "do a
> then do b" - the identity element is of course "do nothing"). Q4 is
> quaternion arithmetic.

So which one is hypercomplex arithmatic?

> To generalise complex numbers into higher dimensions, what you need is an
> arithmetic structure that contains the structure of complex arithmetic. Of
> all the groups just listed, the _only_ groups that contain such a structure
> are the complex numbers themselves, and quaternions.
>
> In particular, for a 3D generalisation, the group would need six elements
> (1, -1, i, -i, j, -j). There are only two six-element groups: addition mod
> 6 (which obviously is inadequate), and the symmetries of an equilateral
> triangle - which can also be shown to be unable to support complex arithmetic.

Absolutly fasinating! By the way, I have a list of field/ring/etc
properties on my web pages; I don't suppose you'd like to verify that
I've got them right? You can find this at

  http://www.mk.dmu.ac.uk/~khcm8ac/Full/Math/Field.html

Do you know of any web sites where I can find out more on this sort
of thing? (and Math in general? I've yet to find a good math site!)

P. S. Does anyone know what's being throwen into the stone soup in
this "developer" version of FractInt?

- ---------------------------------
Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est!
(Sir Francis Bacon)
Andrew Orphi Coppin
DMU MK.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 00:10:54 +1200
From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Purely mathematical

At 09:44 06/05/99 GMT, Andrew Coppin wrote:
>Morgan L. Owens wrote:
>
>So which one is hypercomplex arithmatic?
>
>> To generalise complex numbers into higher dimensions, what you need is an
>> arithmetic structure that contains the structure of complex arithmetic. Of
>> all the groups just listed, the _only_ groups that contain such a structure
>> are the complex numbers themselves, and quaternions.
>>
>
I err in this paragraph, as I should have known from the existence of
hypercomplex numbers. There is another group with enough structure to
support complex arithmetic, and I did list it.

Hypercomplex arithmetic has the same structure as the group Z4+Z2. The
relationship between the components of a hypercomplex number and pairs of
integers mod <4,2> is as follows:

 1 = <0,0>   ij=ji=k        <0,1><1,1>=<1,1><0,1>=<1,2>
- -1 = <0,2>   jk=kj=-i       <1,1><1,2>=<1,2><1,1>=<0,3>
 i = <0,1>   ik=ki=-j       <0,1><1,2>=<1,2><0,1>=<1,3>
- -i = <0,3>   ii=jj=-kk=-1   <0,1><0,1>=<1,1><1,1>=<1,0><1,2>=<0,2>
 j = <1,1>   ijk=1          <0,1><1,1><1,2>=<0,0>
- -j = <1,3>
 k = <1,2>
- -k = <1,0>

>
>Absolutly fasinating! By the way, I have a list of field/ring/etc
>properties on my web pages; I don't suppose you'd like to verify that
>I've got them right? You can find this at
>
>  http://www.mk.dmu.ac.uk/~khcm8ac/Full/Math/Field.html
>
More clearly stated than I managed...

>Do you know of any web sites where I can find out more on this sort
>of thing? (and Math in general? I've yet to find a good math site!)
>
A few maths links I keep (I used to have more but something ate my
bookmarks, and I'm still reassembling the list):

http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/papers/known-math/index/
http://www.csc.fi/math_topics/
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/junkyard/
http://euclid.math.fsu.edu/Science/math.html
http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/services/mathsweb.html
http://www.siam.org/world/
http://www.mathsoft.com/asolve/constant/constant.html
http://gams.nist.gov/
http://www.research.att.com/%7Enjas/sequences/eisonline.html

Most of these links supply plenty of further links for exploration.

Morgan L. Owens



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 23:58 0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: Re: (fractint) Two Pars

>Who are these "developers", and why the closed model?

Pleased to meet you Adam! I'm Robin and I tend to concentrate on
interface
gizmos for FractInt, for the others, check out the credits screen :-)

It's not that closed a model, the source code for the current version is
allways freely available and once anyone has contacted Tim or
contributed a patch they can get hold of the current developers source.
What we don't do currently is widely distribute loads of intermediate
version
executables as that would be a support nightmare!
It has been rather a long time since the last official version though, sorry
folks but fear not, release of a beta is close at hand.....


Cheers,
         Robin.






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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:16:41 GMT
From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Purely Mathematical

I have seen the error of my ways; my web pages have been altered
accordinly! I've also added a little table at the bottom sor quick
reference. Check it out! Alternativly, start at the root of my pages:

  http://www.mk.dmu.ac.uk/~khcm8ac/

I've got pages on Complex arithmatic, but that's about all at the
moment. More is on the way though! And thank you very much for the
links!!!

- ---------------------------------
Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est!
(Sir Francis Bacon)
Andrew Orphi Coppin
DMU MK.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:39:12 -0500
From: lori rosenthal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) fractal art short course

I downloaded Fracint a month ago and joined the discussion list.  I've been
following conversations as much as my busy schedule allows.  Too bad I didn't save
all the email because I remember discussion relevant to what I'm trying to do now.

I'd like to offer a couple of workshops on fractal art at my home institution,
ACC.  I need to compile a list of resources (on and off the web) for primarily
graphic and commercial art students.  Would you folks mind giving me a hand by
sending me your favorite URLs, books, and other publications.  I'll be happy to
acknowledge each contributor along with this discussion group.

Also, we will be downloading Fractint onto Win98 workstations.  I use DOS, 95, NT,
and Linux myself and confess that I blew off most of that discussion.  Never say
never.  Could someone remind me of the important aspects of installing on 98?
They frown at me when I say DOS in the photo lab, but if it works, I think I can
persuade them to go that way.

Many thanks,
Lori Rosenthal
Math Department
Austin Community College




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Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:52:39 -0500
From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: (fractint) Two Pars

>
> >Who are these "developers", and why the closed model?
>
> Pleased to meet you Adam! I'm Robin and I tend to concentrate on
> interface
> gizmos for FractInt, for the others, check out the credits screen :-)
>
> It's not that closed a model, the source code for the current version is
> allways freely available and once anyone has contacted Tim or
> contributed a patch they can get hold of the current developers source.
> What we don't do currently is widely distribute loads of intermediate
> version
> executables as that would be a support nightmare!
> It has been rather a long time since the last official version though,
sorry
> folks but fear not, release of a beta is close at hand.....

Why not have a publically accessible CVS server like everyone else?  Even
some commercial developers do that.

Adam



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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:10:00 -0200
From: "Bresslau" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Why_don=B4t_my_programs_run_peacefuly_together=3F=3F?=

First I tried partobat,  and it cries to me: runtime error 200 at 0488:00=
91
Then, I got the contest kit and tried to run the update option 4, so I
should get 1024x768 images. It wont run with an option (4,5,6...), only
alone, as if it would generate thumbnails. I tried changing the shortkey
assignement to the video-disk modes, I tried changing them both in fracti=
nt
and in all of the makegif*.bat=B4s. Is it because I=B4m running within wi=
ndows?
or is it something to do with my path (c:\geral\mat\fractint) ? I really
want to see all the beautiful pars I got from you, but I don=B4t want to =
call
them all one by one.
Another question: I=B4ve also tried the fractint saver as a par tester, b=
ut
when i have one single file containing hundreds of pars I put the saver t=
o
print 64 images on the screen. So it begins generating them nicely, but,
when it comes to the last image on the screen and has to start from the
beginning again it simply overwrites the files just saved. My idea was to
let it work all night long so in the morning I would find lot of nice pic=
s
in my hard drive, but I don=B4t know what else to try.
So that=B4s it. If anybody knows the answers or how I find them, please a=
nswer
me.

Oh, I had some trouble with fimap too, are all the problems related??

Fernando Bresslau - Brazil


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:44:33 +0200
From: Ralph Feltens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) fractal art short course

Hello Lori

>
> I'd like to offer a couple of workshops on fractal art at my home institution,
> ACC.  I need to compile a list of resources (on and off the web) for primarily
> graphic and commercial art students.  Would you folks mind giving me a hand by
> sending me your favorite URLs, books, and other publications.  I'll be happy to
> acknowledge each contributor along with this discussion group.
>

Here are two sites that might be of interest to you. The first one is a link to "The
Beauty of Chaos" homepage http://i30www.ira.uka.de/~ukrueger/fractals/. It is a
database of 500+ pictures of the mandelbrot set. I found this one very inspiring for
showing how to find interesting & beautiful motifs within the mandelbrot set.

The second one is the homepage of Michael Freeman
(http://www2.capcollege.bc.ca/~mfreeman/). He has developed a suite of little programs
(only Mandelbrot-Sets), requiring parameter inputs (i.e. coordinates) that can be
obtained via a fractint par file. His programs have the following advantages:

a) truecolor output (tga files / continous potential / colorfile editor included, but
some manipulation with a text editor sometimes helpful)
b) unlimited resolution, which is very interesting for high quality output (I made
most of the pictures on my walls using resolutions of up to 8400 x 6300)
[c) anti-aliasing program: useful for generating smaller images from a larger one /
enhancing output quality]


Ralph Feltens


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Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:13:39 -0400
From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Updated Chebyshev formula file

Morgan L. Owens' Chebyshev formula collection has been updated and made
compatible with Orgform. The collection may be found on either of my
three Chebyshev pages at my Geocities web site. Please visit one of them
and download this newly revised and corrected collection and let it
replace your current one.

Gedeon

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html
Member Infinite Fractal Loop
Last updated: May 5, 1999 - New Euler images
Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html
Last updated: February 23, 1999 - three new pages
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Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:56:55 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_(fractint)_Why_don=B4t_my_programs_run_peacefu?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ly_together=3F=3F?=

Fernando Bresslau  wrote:

>>> First I tried partobat,  and it cries to me: runtime error 200 at
0488:0091<<<

You probably have an old version which doesn't work on fast PCs. Try version 3.5
at http://www.hajoweber.de/download/program/partob35.zip

Sorry, I can't help you with the other problems, but:

>>> Oh, I had some trouble with fimap too, are all the problems related?? <<<

You don't mean fimaps.exe that generates color maps do you? If so, I am the
author of that program.

Nick



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Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:24:51 +0200
From: "Ognen Ivanovski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Visit Genum

I've created an interactive site that develops fractal formulas using
Genetic Algorithms based on the votes that visitors give for the existing
formulas (i.e. fractals).

Please visit it so it would work (the site needs votes to produce new and
unexpected fractals).

http://come.to/genum

http://eon.pmf.ukim.edu.mk/~milkman/genum/

It is the same site
Thanks.
Ognen




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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:01:14 -0200
From: "Bresslau" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=28fractint=29_Why_don=B4t_my_programs_run_peacefuly_t?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ogether=3F=3F?=

Nick Grasso wrote:

>You probably have an old version which doesn't work on fast PCs. Try
version 3.5
>at http://www.hajoweber.de/download/program/partob35.zip


Thanks, I=B4m going to check it tomorrow from college. Last time I tried =
to
download it the page (I don=B4t if it=B4s the sam) was being updated.

>>>> Oh, I had some trouble with fimap too, are all the problems related?=
?
<<<
>
>You don't mean fimaps.exe that generates color maps do you? If so, I am =
the
>author of that program.
 Yes, that=B4s it, but I have to get a closer look at it to see if the pr=
oblem
continues to exest.

Thank you so much,
Fernando,
USP, S=E3o Paulo, Brazil


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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:25:05 -0200
From: "Bresslau" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Visit Genum

I visited it(http://eon.pmf.ukim.edu.mk/~milkman/genum/
), my vote was for pic 8 first, pic 2nd and 4 3rd, but I got this message:
INTERNAL: unrecognized language en?jazik=en

Best regards,
Bresslau



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Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:31:19 -0700
From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Visit Genum

At 05:24 PM 5/11/99 +0200, Ognen wrote:
>...
>Genetic Algorithms
>...

 :o)

>Please visit it so it would work (the site needs votes to produce new and
>unexpected fractals).

I tried both URLs, got a code 404 both times.  :o(
Hopefully it's a server problem that will clear later.


Bud


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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:54:49 +0200
From: "Randall Britten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Visit Genum

It worked quite fine when I visited it.  Nice experiment.

- -------------------------
Randall Britten


- -----Original Message-----
From:    [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Mark Christenson
Sent:    Wednesday 12 May 1999 04:31
To:    [e-mail]
Subject:    Re: (fractint) Visit Genum

At 05:24 PM 5/11/99 +0200, Ognen wrote:
>...
>Genetic Algorithms
>...

 :o)

>Please visit it so it would work (the site needs votes to produce new and
>unexpected fractals).

I tried both URLs, got a code 404 both times.  :o(
Hopefully it's a server problem that will clear later.


Bud


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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 05:59:45 -0400
From: Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: Genum

It would be nice if there were a private (i.e., non-server) version of
Genum, so you could make sure that only your own artistic choices were
registered.

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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:42 0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (fractint) Re: Genum

>It would be nice if there were a private (i.e., non-server) version of
>Genum,

Well wait a bit for the next version of fractint ( soon!) and you'll be able
to try the evolver which does much the same thing, except that at the
moment you choose only one of a set of images for the next generation.
I intend to add in the capabilty to weight choices of several images in
the next version but that really needs a break from the somewhat
restrictive DOS memory limitations which we currently operate under.
Phil McRevis is currently puting in some sterling work in that direction,
nice one Phil!

The main problem with building such GA systems is deciding on a
fitness funcion, ideally it would be nice to be able to select a favourite
image from a few generations and then let the program take over once
your choices were reasonably consistent.... this sounds like a job for
a neural network of some sort but I know little of such things and
would welcome any input from anyone here who is experienced in
programming them... drop me a line if you're experienced!

Cheers,
        Robin.










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Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:22:21 -0400
From: Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: Genum

I do not think it would be a good idea to have the program "second-guess"=

the user's artistic choices. I, for one, would rather make more choices t=
o
get a better result.
If a new version of Fractint would allow the specification of user-define=
d
functions via Taylor series, these could be included as ADFs to provide a=

faster evolution. (I have always thought Fractint's function list is quit=
e
restrictive.)

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:38:33 -0600
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Genum

In article <[e-mail]>,
    Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>  writes:

> (I have always thought Fractint's function list is quite
> restrictive.)

What functions do you think are missing?
- --
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:42:46 +1200
From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Genum

At 02:38 13/05/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>    Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>  writes:
>
>> (I have always thought Fractint's function list is quite
>> restrictive.)
>
>What functions do you think are missing?
>
Let's generalise: what's missing is a way for a user to specify new
functions (define a syntax for definitions contained in call it
fractint.fn, say, which is loaded and folded into the list on startup.

Morgan L. Owens



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:13:23 -0200
From: "Bresslau" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Genum

De: Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>
Data: Quarta-feira, 12 de Maio de 1999 23:26

>I do not think it would be a good idea to have the program "second-guess=
"
>the user's artistic choices. I, for one, would rather make more choices =
to
>get a better result.
>If a new version of Fractint would allow the specification of user-defin=
ed
>functions via Taylor series, these could be included as ADFs to provide =
a
>faster evolution. (I have always thought Fractint's function list is qui=
te
>restrictive.)
 I don=B4t know about the Taylor series, but I liked the idea of watching=
 a
computer learn my preferences and try to gues what I prefer. Ok, some cho=
ice
power is good and artistically fundamental, but for personal fun, I reall=
y
support the idea.
Bresslau


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End of fractint-digest V1 #387
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