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fractint-digest      Saturday, February 13 1999      Volume 01 : Number 362




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:25:11 +0100
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

I hope so. I joined april 98, in the middle of a text editor war :)
Lesse... there were Kragen (still think it's too bad he left), Peter Gavin,
Paul Carlson, Steve 'SKarl52884', Paul Derbyshire, Jiho Kim, Linda Allison,
Jon Camp, 'davides', Christian Strik :), Paul N. Lee, Wizzle (where's she
been??), ....

There have been days we had over 60 messages.... now it takes about 60 days
to receive one message :)

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 [e-mail]
[e-mail]

Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the
microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They can
tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike and Linda Allison <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: vrijdag 12 februari 1999 01 20 Fluxen
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?


>That happens every now and then, James.  I've never figured out why,
>either, but rest assured, traffic will pick up eventually, and
>spontaneously.




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:18:26 +0100
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?

Me too.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian Kaplan <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: vrijdag 12 februari 1999 01 20 Fluxen
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?


>
>>
>> Does anyone have experience compiling Xfractint with Red Hat? I
>> use Slakware Linux and have no problems (but then again I only
>> compile the developer version these days.)
>>
>
>I'll try and test it over the weekend.
>
>
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>



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:45:45 -0500
From: George Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] FOTD 07-02-99 (Epicycle Fantasy) (C)

Friends,

Sylvie Gallet correctly pointed out yesterday that there are two formulas=

in circulation with the name mandelbrotmix4. I have renamed the earlier o=
ne
"mandelbrotmix4_v1", and am leaving the later version (the one which Jim =
is
currently using in FOTD postings) with the name mandelbrotmix4. I am
editing the orgform compilation accordingly. To stay in sync with me, tho=
se
who are following along should delete the current mandelbrotmix4 from
_m.frm and add these two:


MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth
  a=3Dreal(p1), b=3Dimag(p1), d=3Dreal(p2), f=3Dimag(p2), g=3D1/f
  h=3D1/d, j=3D1/(f-b), z=3D(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=3Dreal(p3)+1
  l=3Dimag(p3)+100, c=3Dfn1(pixel):
  z=3Dk*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c
  |z| < l
}


MandelbrotMix4_v1 {; Jim Muth
  c=3Dpixel, a=3Dreal(p1), b=3Dimag(p1), d=3Dreal(p2), f=3Dimag(p2)
  g=3D1/f, h=3D1/d, j=3D1/(f-b), z=3D(-a*b*g*h)^j:
  z=3D(a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f))+c
  |z| <=3D 100
}


Regards,

George Martin

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:09:24 -0800
From: "Jim Prickett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) simple source code needed

>I have a student to prepare for the Science Fair on fractals.
>The guy is in the 7th grade.
>
>Could anyone  help me with any ideas or simple source code, please.
>I would appreciate very much any suggestions.

You might take a look at my webpage "The Programmer's Lair".
The entire site is dedicated to source code for fractals, chaos,
other eye candy.  Goto http://geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/9943 or
http://i.am.fractals

Jim Prickett
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:02:02 -0600
From: Mike Hammer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?

>>>
>>> Does anyone have experience compiling Xfractint with Red Hat? I
>>> use Slakware Linux and have no problems (but then again I only
>>> compile the developer version these days.)
>>>
>>

Hi,
Im new to the list but have used and enjoyed
Fractint for quite a while.

I tried to compile Xfractint on a Redhat 5.2 system
and encountered a number of errors. I dont remember
what they were now as it was several weeks ago. As I remember
it was the compiler complaining of missing modules when
compiling general.o If I remember correctly the module it
complained about was bstring.h.

I downloaded the source from:
http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/getting.html

I opted for a rpm install of Xfractint I found on an ftp site.
This installed OK but I havnt been able to get it to to run.

I get an error stating:

"Error opening terminal: xterm."

Anybody have any suggestions?

TTYL!

Mike Hammer
[e-mail]


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:56:05 -0500
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?

At 04:02 PM 2/12/99 -0600, you wrote:

[Another person comes forward with the announcement that xfract won't
 compile on Red Hat 5.2]

I think the problem is probably some sort of X related thing. Linux itself
has little code base forking, but the various free X implementations have
forked a great deal and aren't all that intercompatible so I hear.

The other thing is "standard" libraries. Libc, libm, and iostreams usually
are compatible across Linuxes and among particular variants, but the
various C++ libraries other than iostreams seem to vary a huge amount,
largely because the standard has only recently been decided. The SGI STL
implementation is now pretty much standard, but some programs exist that
were written using older C++ libraries of varying degrees of compatibility.
- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:23:54 -0600
From: Bob Margolis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Dean-Christian Strik wrote some stuff to which I now reply:
>
Most of us are still here, although Wizzle has become a railfan and has
deserted us for rides on the iron horse. She'll be back when she regains her
senses. :-)

You'be been made aware of the Ultra Fractal software, which is being tested and
tested and tested by the lot of us, including moi, on another mailing list. You
can pick it up at http://www.ultrafactal.com although it's now in the shareware
stage and being sold for 35 USD. It's a nice program. But don't worry, I'm sure
everyone will come back here en masse once Master Tim announces the release of
FractInt V. 20. Then someone will be wondering on the other mailing list were
everyone disappeared to. You might say that's PAR for the course! Groan. Sorry,
couldn't help using the pun.

I'm outta here.

Bob

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:02:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: Two versions of same formula

At 10:45 AM 2/12/99 -0500, George Martin wrote:

   <snip>
>. . . there are two formulas in circulation with the name
>mandelbrotmix4. I have renamed the earlier one
>"mandelbrotmix4_v1", and am leaving the later version (the one
>which Jim is currently using in FOTD postings) with the name
>mandelbrotmix4. . . .  <snip>

I did it again.  This is about the third time this had happened.
I'm as sorry as presid... (I'd better not mention it.)  I try not
to let any duplicated formulas get through, but now and then one
slips by.  It happens because I often post FOTD's created with
formulas that are still in the development stage.  In this case,
I had no idea that I had ever posted a par file that used the old
version.  Thanks again to George for keeping my disorganized
jumble of formulas in at least a modicum of order.

Jim Muth
[e-mail]


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:05:47 +0100
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?

Hm. I seem to have an older copy of the xfractint source, and not even the
official distribution :(

I'll give it a try anyway.

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 [e-mail]
[e-mail]

Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the
microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They can
tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dean-Christian Strik <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: vrijdag 12 februari 1999 14 30 Fluxen
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?


>Me too.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Kaplan <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: vrijdag 12 februari 1999 01 20 Fluxen
>Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have experience compiling Xfractint with Red Hat? I
>>> use Slakware Linux and have no problems (but then again I only
>>> compile the developer version these days.)
>>>
>>
>>I'll try and test it over the weekend.
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
>>Post Message:   [e-mail]
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>>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
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>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
>



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:09:37 +0100
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?

My distribution of the xfractint source (not the official one!) contains the
binary. However, the binary exits with the error that ncurses.so can't be
found.


- --

PS. Never use RPMs. Not on non-RedHat systems, and not even on RedHat...

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 [e-mail]
[e-mail]

Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the
microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They can
tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Hammer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: vrijdag 12 februari 1999 23 08 Fluxen
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?


>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have experience compiling Xfractint with Red Hat? I
>>>> use Slakware Linux and have no problems (but then again I only
>>>> compile the developer version these days.)
>>>>
>>>
>
>Hi,
>Im new to the list but have used and enjoyed
>Fractint for quite a while.
>
>I tried to compile Xfractint on a Redhat 5.2 system
>and encountered a number of errors. I dont remember
>what they were now as it was several weeks ago. As I remember
>it was the compiler complaining of missing modules when
>compiling general.o If I remember correctly the module it
>complained about was bstring.h.
>
>I downloaded the source from:
>http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/getting.html
>
>I opted for a rpm install of Xfractint I found on an ftp site.
>This installed OK but I havnt been able to get it to to run.
>
>I get an error stating:
>
>"Error opening terminal: xterm."
>
>Anybody have any suggestions?
>
>TTYL!
>
>Mike Hammer
>[e-mail]
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
>Administrator:  [e-mail]
>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
>



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:07:21 +0100
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) simple source code needed

>http://i.am.fractals


Huh? Seems like a ridiculous url to me... anyway, I tested it, but hey, it
doesn't work (not really surprising).

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 [e-mail]
[e-mail]

Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the
microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They can
tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping.




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:03:56 -0500
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Anyone use Red Hat Linux?

At 01:09 AM 2/13/99 +0100, you wrote:
>My distribution of the xfractint source (not the official one!) contains the
>binary. However, the binary exits with the error that ncurses.so can't be
>found.

Well...get ncurses.so. It's a linux equivalent of a DLL. You know what to
do about missing DLL problems right? :-)

>PS. Never use RPMs. Not on non-RedHat systems, and not even on RedHat...

Why?
- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:02:50 -0500
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) simple source code needed

At 01:07 AM 2/13/99 +0100, you wrote:
>>http://i.am.fractals
>
>
>Huh? Seems like a ridiculous url to me... anyway, I tested it, but hey, it
>doesn't work (not really surprising).

It should be
http://i.am/fractals


>Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the
>microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They can
>tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping.

The 1970s were the days for hackers. Those were the days when code grinders
were code grinders, suits were suits, hackers never wore suits, and real
men arranged NOPs and weird instructions in their idle loops and positioned
data on drums in such a way as to make the CPU put out RF signals that
played a tune on an AM radio sitting near the box!

- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:58:24 -0500
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Ultra Fractal is timebombware. It should by all rights be free and open
source. :P

- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:11:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

>
> Ultra Fractal is timebombware. It should by all rights be free and open
> source. :P

Why?

Just because the original authors of Fractint chose to make the code
open and freely available doesn't mean that everyone who writes software
should follow suit.  UF is an outstanding program and Frederik has done
a fantastic job of developing it and incorporating the suggestions and
comments of the beta testers.  That isn't to say that Fractint doesn't
have its advandages over UF.  They are both outstanding tools to create
images with.  IMO, it is worth twice the $35 shareware fee.  I think
Frederik is well within his rights to make it shareware.  Even if it
were freeware, I don't see that he should be obligated to share the
source.

Of course, YMMV.


Ken...




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:21:58 -0500
From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) further web site update

I have done some further work on my Geocities web site. There is a
second page of Chebyshev images, and the Classic Curves page has been
completely updated with new images. Both of these pages contain Ultra
Fractal images. I hope you enjoy your visit.

Gedeon

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html
Member Infinite Fractal Loop
Last updated: February 12, 1999 - two new pages
Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html
Last updated: November 8, 1998
- --------------------------------------------------------------



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:25:58 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Michael Traynor)
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Bob,

Folk will probably be using fractint's evolver to come up with stuff
they'll tart up in UF (which is an awfully nice bit o' software).

>
>Dean-Christian Strik wrote some stuff to which I now reply:
>>
>Most of us are still here, although Wizzle has become a railfan and has
>deserted us for rides on the iron horse. She'll be back when she regains her
>senses. :-)
>
>You'be been made aware of the Ultra Fractal software, which is being tested and
>tested and tested by the lot of us, including moi, on another mailing list. You
>can pick it up at http://www.ultrafactal.com although it's now in the shareware
>stage and being sold for 35 USD. It's a nice program. But don't worry, I'm sure
>everyone will come back here en masse once Master Tim announces the release of
>FractInt V. 20. Then someone will be wondering on the other mailing list were
>everyone disappeared to. You might say that's PAR for the course! Groan. Sorry,
>couldn't help using the pun.
>
>I'm outta here.
>
>Bob
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

- --
Mike Traynor

People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
    Abraham Lincoln

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:20:24 -0500
From: Paul DeCelle <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Paul Derbyshire wrote:

> Ultra Fractal is timebombware. It should by all rights be free and open
> source. :P

Why should ALL software be free?  As far as I'm concerned, that's up to the
author(s) who've made the effort to develop it for the rest of us to use.  Don't
get me wrong - Fractint is an outstanding program, and you can't beat the price
(free!).  On the other hand, the  $35 US for Ultra Fractal is a (IMHO) real
value when one takes into account it's additional features and capabilities.
I'll continue to use both, but that's my personal choice - Factint for coming up
with inspirations and UF for refinements...

BTW, my small (so far!) UF site at  http://pages.prodigy.net/pauldc/ufintro.html
shows a hint of what can be done with combining Fractint formulas and UF
features.

Regards, Paul DeCelle


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:04:10 -0500
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

At 07:11 PM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Just because the original authors of Fractint chose to make the code
>open and freely available doesn't mean that everyone who writes software
>should follow suit.  UF is an outstanding program and Frederik has done
>a fantastic job of developing it and incorporating the suggestions and
>comments of the beta testers...

...only to then discriminate against the poor, the students, and everyone
who has a bankruptcy in their records 7 years young or younger.
Software should be equally available to everyone with a computer regardless
of their means, because it can easily be distributed to everyone with a
computer.
As a compromise, it should certainly always be possible to obtain it easily
and conveniently if you have the money, and shouldn't cost more than
amortized cost of development plus distribution cost.
Requiring someone use a credit card to get something makes it inaccessible
to some people that can afford it and by all rights should be able to get
it quickly and conveniently.
Requiring someone use a credit card to get something is wrong and violates
the constitution of nearly all decent free countries.
Remember the recent ruling that struck down a law that would have required
people have a credit card to view online porn and to access sexual medical
information and so forth, as proof of age? It was struck down because it
was discriminatory and violated the first amendment in the US by making
some constitutionally protected free speech available only to the elite
(that is, people that are well to do, certainly not students anymore, and
haven't been bankrupt).

Elitism must end. Especially this software elitism.
Been bankrupt? A world of downloadable $$$-ware is beyond your grasp, even
if you have the physical cash.
Student? Unemployed? Still a minor? Forget it. You'll just have to stick to
the expensive, overpriced software in the local computer retail which is
available to people via ready cash.
A victim of identity theft and credit fraud? Stick to nonags.com...forget
about Paint Shop Pro, Ultra Fractal, and Adobe Acrobat.
Unexpectedly laid off? The door to a lot of software just slammed shut.

It almost makes you want to try those $$$GET GOOD CREDIT INSTANTLY!!!$$$
schemes just on the off chance they won't land you in prison.
Or sneak off with your father's credit card...


Credit cards must stop being a necessity for electronic commerce.
We need a direct-debit system, where if you have the money in a bank
account, you can buy online.
And until that system is imposed, at the very least, it should all be free.

>IMO, it is worth twice the $35 shareware fee.

It is not fair though that there are people who physically have the $35 and
still can't get it!


- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:46:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Michael Traynor)
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Paul Derbyshire writes:

>...only to then discriminate against the poor, the students, and everyone
>who has a bankruptcy in their records 7 years young or younger.
>Software should be equally available to everyone with a computer regardless
>of their means, because it can easily be distributed to everyone with a
>computer.

Hmmmm, I'm sure anyone could use your computer.  Shall I send them over to
play with it?

>As a compromise, it should certainly always be possible to obtain it easily
>and conveniently if you have the money, and shouldn't cost more than
>amortized cost of development plus distribution cost.

It would be my guess the Frederik will not get enough money off UF to pay
him at a rate commensurate with the skill used for the time he will have
spent on the program.  Only he (and perhaps the revenuers in the
Netherlands) will know, as folk are oddly cagy about what they make (that
kind of secrecy usually helps the folk buying labour, not selling it).

>Requiring someone use a credit card to get something makes it inaccessible
>to some people that can afford it and by all rights should be able to get
>it quickly and conveniently.

Well, one could always e-mail and ask if something like a postal money
order would be acceptable.  I did, for UF, and they are.

>Requiring someone use a credit card to get something is wrong and violates
>the constitution of nearly all decent free countries.

That is an interesting viewpoint, and I don't think the lack of references
is due to inadvertance.

>Remember the recent ruling that struck down a law that would have required
>people have a credit card to view online porn and to access sexual medical
>information and so forth, as proof of age? It was struck down because it
>was discriminatory and violated the first amendment in the US by making
>some constitutionally protected free speech available only to the elite
>(that is, people that are well to do, certainly not students anymore, and
>haven't been bankrupt).

You need to learn that court decisions only stand for what they decide.
The court did not decide that the owner of a site could not charge for
access and refuse to take any form of payment but credit card.  It ruled
that site owners could not be required by law to require credit card info
up front before showing anything.  Two very different things.

>Elitism must end. Especially this software elitism.

By all means, take the bull by the horns and produce free software for
others to use and so squeeze out those who would sell it.  There actually
is a group of folk doing just that.  Putting their efforts where their
metaphorical mouth is.


- --
Mike Traynor

People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
    Abraham Lincoln

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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:57:40 -0500
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

At 01:46 AM 2/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Well, one could always e-mail and ask if something like a postal money
>order would be acceptable.  I did, for UF, and they are.

I seem to recall mentioning something about "quickly, conveniently, and
easily"... messing with snail mail, paying extra for stamps and envelopes,
and waiting for however long the snail mail takes (if it gets there at
all!) doesn't strike me as "quickly, conveniently, and easily".

I think if a person has the right to something (because, for instance, they
have the money) then they have the right to obtain it as quickly,
conveniently, and easily as everyone else.

>That is an interesting viewpoint, and I don't think the lack of references
>is due to inadvertance.

Lack of references? I cited in detail a recent event where a court struck
down a law that would have made something available only to the People With
Credit.

>By all means, take the bull by the horns and produce free software for
>others to use and so squeeze out those who would sell it.  There actually
>is a group of folk doing just that.  Putting their efforts where their
>metaphorical mouth is.

I plan to. :-)

- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:30:35 -0800
From: "Marie Drozdis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Paul, if you want software free, the answer is simple. Write your own
programs.  No one needs to feel entitled to other's work when they can do
their own. If you don't know how to program, there are books at the library
to get you started.

M  :)


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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:48:05 +0100
From: JOAN <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Bifurcations

Hi,
I wrote before but am not sure that the purpose of my query was clear. I
want to do bifurcations with Fractint, inserting specific values in
place of the ones given for growth factor, population, etc. If is
possible and someone can tell me how to do it, I would be grateful.
joan duran


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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:48:05 +0100
From: JOAN <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Bifurcations

Hi,
I wrote before but am not sure that the purpose of my query was clear. I
want to do bifurcations with Fractint, inserting specific values in
place of the ones given for growth factor, population, etc. If is
possible and someone can tell me how to do it, I would be grateful.
joan duran


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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:55:23 -0600
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) What's up with the list?

Paul,

 - Ultra Fractal is timebombware. It should by all rights be free and open
 - source. :P

You and I have covered this in private e-mail before. For some reason you
labor under the impression that you, simple by virtue of your existence,
are *entitled* to help yourself to the work of everyone else, for free.

You can pay for Ultra Fractal (and most other shareware!) by sending a
check or money order to the author. How DARE you whine that it's "too much
trouble" to mess with stamps and writing a check! Do you think the world is
here to coddle you? Do you whine that your groceries must be delivered to
your door, because it's too much trouble for you to go to the supermarket
to pick them up?

It's time you shed this infantile attitude that you can help yourself to
everything in the world. Frederik took the opportunity to develop a fine
piece of software. If he wants to charge for his labors, he is entitled to
do so. Plain and simple. When you do the work, you can decide whether to
give it away or sell it, but don't even THINK about presuming to dictate to
someone else.

I suspect once you get out of school and into the real world, you will
understand the value of work. There are some things you really don't learn
in school.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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End of fractint-digest V1 #362
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