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fractint-digest       Thursday, October 8 1998       Volume 01 : Number 309




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:42:35 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

You can print them out and sell them at a flea market, as I've heard others
here have done.  I guess 5$US is reasonable, if they're on good paper, and
they look nice.

Pete

    // -----Original Message-----
    // From: [e-mail]
    // [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Paul N. Lee
    // Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 4:45 AM
    // To: Fractal-Art Discussion List; Fractint Discussion List
    // Subject: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images
    //
    //
    // Regina & Steve wrote:
    // >
    // > What do people usually charge others for
    // > colour prints of their fractals?
    //
    // At least what it cost to print them (figure in any mileage, personal
    // time, etc...).
    //
    // >
    // > What size is the most popular?
    //
    // Depends on your audience/customers, and your pocket book.  You don't
    // want to create large expensive prints if nobody will be able
    // to afford
    // them.  You could print them yourself at 1440 x 720 dpi using
    // something
    // like Epson's Stylus Color 1520 for paper support up to 17" x
    // 22" (13.6"
    // x 21.78" printable area) or their Stylus Color 3000 for 17" x 196"
    // banner paper.
    //
    // >
    // > Anyone selling theirs for a living (and making it)?
    //
    // There are several people making fairly regular sales from
    // their fractals
    // in some form or other (whether prints, CDs, calendars,
    // T-shirts, etc..)
    // I don't think anyone is actually making a living at it though.  There
    // are some individuals that are making money from selling
    // other's fractal
    // images for various design situations and/or from using them at their
    // website as "free graphics" with lots of commercial banners.
    //
    // >
    // > Any other discussion on selling fractal prints welcome.
    //
    // Best to get some idea of who all would actually be
    // interested in buying
    // some of your prints, and how much they are willing to spend.
    //
    // P.N.L.
    // -------------------------------------------------
    // http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go
    //
    // --------------------------------------------------------------
    // Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
    // Post Message:   [e-mail]
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    // Administrator:  [e-mail]
    // Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
    //


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:48:06 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) FOTNDWH???  [Was :IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....]

Well, now that we have Fractals of the Day, Night, & Week, all that's left
are Fractals of the Weekend, Month, non-denominational Winter Holiday...

Pete

    // -----Original Message-----
    // From: [e-mail]
    // [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Mark
    // Christenson
    // Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:07 PM
    // To: [e-mail]
    // Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....
    //
    //
    // At 12:03 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
    // >.... a new FOTW will be up on my fractal page... along with
    // a surprise ;-)
    // >
    // >Be there or be square! Midnight.
    //
    // Your (presumably) spiffy GIF crashes my browser
    // (Netscape 2.02, Win 3.1, I tried twice).
    // I know, I *should* upgrade...
    //
    //
    // Aloha, Bud
    //
    //
    // --------------------------------------------------------------
    // Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
    // Post Message:   [e-mail]
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    // Administrator:  [e-mail]
    // Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
    //


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:22:58 -0400
From: Paul Derbyshire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....

At 07:06 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 12:03 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>.... a new FOTW will be up on my fractal page... along with a surprise ;-)
>>
>>Be there or be square! Midnight.
>
>Your (presumably) spiffy GIF crashes my browser
>(Netscape 2.02, Win 3.1, I tried twice).
>I know, I *should* upgrade...

Gak, which one?

Anyways, that's par for the course with Netcrap. Get IE4..... (trust me the
alternatives are worse.)
- --
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
- -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     [e-mail]
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:41:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
> Anyways, that's par for the course with Netcrap. Get IE4..... (trust me the
> alternatives are worse.)

Both of the major browsers are serious security holes.  But at least
Netscape doesn't support ActiveX!

Kragen

- --
<[e-mail]>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:48:47 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

Paul,

 - There are several people making fairly regular sales from their fractals
 - in some form or other (whether prints, CDs, calendars, T-shirts, etc..)
 - I don't think anyone is actually making a living at it though.

Jeff Burkowitz seemed to indicate he did--although I didn't ask him for a
complete financial statement, so I don't know for sure. :)  Here's his site:

    http://www.lifesmith.com/

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:52:42 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....

Kragen,

 - Both of the major browsers are serious security holes.  But at least
 - Netscape doesn't support ActiveX!

Neither does IE4, if you disable all ActiveX everywhere, as I have done.
Whatever crackhead at Microsoft thought up ActiveX should be fired for
gross incompetence.  It's the most colossaly stupid idea they've put forth
yet.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:02:04 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) web-site updated

Yeah, but what you gotta realize is that maybe the final image took 2
months, but how long did it take to actually *find* the point at which it's
zoomed in?

*That* takes patience.

Pete

    // -----Original Message-----
    // From: [e-mail]
    // [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Paul
    // Derbyshire
    // Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 5:05 PM
    // To: [e-mail]
    // Subject: Re: (fractint) web-site updated
    //
    //
    // 1600 hours? That's more than TWO MONTHS!
    // --
    //    .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones,
    // coastlines are not
    // -()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning
    // travel in a
    //    `*'  straight line."
    // -------------------------------------------------
    //         -- B. Mandelbrot  |http://surf.to/pgd.net
    // _____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire
    // [e-mail]
    // Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|
    //
    // --------------------------------------------------------------
    // Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
    // Post Message:   [e-mail]
    // Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
    // Administrator:  [e-mail]
    // Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
    //


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:32:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Kerry Mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Regina & Steve wrote:

> What do people usually charge others for colour prints of their fractals?

Just for reference, this is what I charge.  My prints are photographic,
rather than inkjet.

Size    Price
5x7    $10.00
8x10    25.00
11x14   50.00
16x20  100.00
24x30  250.00

> What size is the most popular?

That really does vary.  I would guess 11x14 is the most popular, but I've
sold many at 5x7 and am now awaiting an order for 1 30x40 and 1 40x40
print.

> Anyone selling theirs for a living (and making it)?

Not me.  I tried a couple of times and failed miserably.

> Any other discussion on selling fractal prints welcome.

I am very resistant to the idea of selling my prints at a flea market.  I
guess I have this attitude that my work is "art", and I won't be taken
seriously as an artist if I take root at a flea market.  So, I don't sell
much, but when I do, I get a good price.  I recommend that anyone who
feels like I do to make sure their prints are of high quality and to not
be afraid of asking for what they're worth.

Kerry

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry Mitchell
[e-mail]    www.primenet.com/~lkmitch/
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

Kerry,

> > Any other discussion on selling fractal prints welcome.
>
> I am very resistant to the idea of selling my prints at a flea market.  I
> guess I have this attitude that my work is "art", and I won't be taken
> seriously as an artist if I take root at a flea market.  So, I don't sell
> much, but when I do, I get a good price.  I recommend that anyone who
> feels like I do to make sure their prints are of high quality and to not
> be afraid of asking for what they're worth.

I agree with you and others in that the key is to find a market.

I've browsed many of the artists who have web sites and see many
beautiful images.  However, my reaction is similar to my reaction to
photographers selling their images at art fairs, galleries, etc.  That
is, being a non-professional photographer, I just find it hard to bring
myself to buying images that I look at and think, "I should be able to
do that myself, so why pay for it?".  Now, chances are that with the
time and equipment, I might be able to come close.  In some cases, there
is no way that I could achieve their results.

The same with fractal images.  I've access to the same tools, in most
cases as the artists, so why can't I find equally beautiful images.
With enough pracice and learning I think I can come close.

I don't mean to diminish in any way the accomplishments of fractal
artists.  It's just that I'm not likely to buy images at this point.
Other artists provide me with a standard of excellece to stive for,
which at this point, seems like Mt. Everest.  :-)




Ken...



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:52:42 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....

Yeah, ActiveX is pretty dumb, but barely anyone other than MS uses it,
really :)  Of course, a few pages use it, but (almost) all the controls come
from MS's database thing.  It asks you when you want to download a new one,
too.  ActiveX's just MS's way of one-upping Netscape, after all...  I mean,
it's almost a game: Navigator -> IE, JavaScript -> VBScript, Java ->
ActiveX, etc etc.  But, then again, Netscape has paralleled MS a couple
times too.  ActiveX is IMHO just an instant-on plugin spec, pretty much.
There are lots of Netscape plugins that have been implemented as ActiveX
controls for IE.  So, if you just don't d/l any new ActiveX controls from
potentially unsafe sites, you're ok.  IE keeps all the ones you've gotten so
far on your computer, so you rarely need to do that, anyway.

Pete

    // -----Original Message-----
    // From: [e-mail]
    // [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
    // Damien M. Jones
    // Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 11:53 AM
    // To: [e-mail]
    // Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....
    //
    //
    // Kragen,
    //
    //  - Both of the major browsers are serious security holes.
    // But at least
    //  - Netscape doesn't support ActiveX!
    //
    // Neither does IE4, if you disable all ActiveX everywhere, as
    // I have done.
    // Whatever crackhead at Microsoft thought up ActiveX should be
    // fired for
    // gross incompetence.  It's the most colossaly stupid idea
    // they've put forth
    // yet.
    //
    // Damien M. Jones   \\
    // [e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
    //                     \\  http://www.fractalus.com/
    //
    // --------------------------------------------------------------
    // Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
    // Post Message:   [e-mail]
    // Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
    // Administrator:  [e-mail]
    // Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
    //


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:08:01 -0400
From: "Peter Gavin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

Paul wrote:
    // Had problems getting it downloaded at first (it kept trying
    // to display
    // the executable as a text file on my browser).

The people on the server may have set the .exe file MIME type to text/plain
or something.  I'll ask them.

    // Finally got it saved to
    // my TEMP directory.  When I try to execute it, the following
    // message pops
    // up in a DOS window:
    //     "This program must be run under Win32"
    //
    // Might there be anyway you could just create a "zip" file for
    // download ??

The archiver I used (RAR) gives very good compression ratios (10:1!!), but
unfortunately, it's not widely used.  Not only that, but an archive created
with the most efficient compression can't be converted into a dos EXE (only
Win32 & os2).  So, either you need to get the RAR program for dos (and
extract it the way you would any other archive), or download the 2 megabyte
zip file that I'm going to be posting shortly.  (In comparison, the RAR
archive is about 600k.)  I've also made a smaller (pixel area-wise) version,
which is compressed using a standard video codec (at some loss of quality),
and is about 180k.  Both will be posted by 9:00am EST this morning.
(8-oct-98)

Pete


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:46:20 -0400
From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....

Damien M Jones wrote:

> ...if you disable all ActiveX everywhere, as I have done...

Would you mind telling us how to do that?

Gedeon

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html
Member Infinite Fractal Loop
Last updated: September 28, 1998 - major revision
Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html
Last updated: July 20, 1998
- --------------------------------------------------------------



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:04:53 -0400
From: "T. Conally" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractal page

As a newbie to real fractals, as I am beginning to realize comparing my
puny little fractals to some of yours , I have put up a page to display
some of those puny little ones. I have tried to inject my personality into
some of them by adding post processing with Paintshop Pro.
I am not new, however, at designing web pages. So I would ask that if you
have time to look at my pages for a good laugh, and maybe give me some feed
back. I am enjoying this list and have just learned how to use the .frm and
.par files from the list. It's exciting to learn some thing. If some of you
wonder about my title, It is from another website that I have, just trying
to tie together two different interests.
 http://members.tripod.com/~afractal
Thanks.
Tom Conally
In every boomerang there is a perfect throw.
Your life, Grasshopper, is to practice till you find that throw
and become one with that boomerang!
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/conally   " Flying Frog Boomerangs"
http://members.tripod.com/~afractal   " Flying Frog Fractals"
http://www.netpath.net/~conally       " Paradise"

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Ken Childress wrote:
> The same with fractal images.  I've access to the same tools, in most
> cases as the artists, so why can't I find equally beautiful images.
> With enough pracice and learning I think I can come close.

Maybe the right people to sell fractal prints to are the people who
have never seen Fractint.  :)

Kragen

- --
<[e-mail]>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

Peter,

> The archiver I used (RAR) gives very good compression ratios (10:1!!), but
> unfortunately, it's not widely used.  Not only that, but an archive created
> with the most efficient compression can't be converted into a dos EXE (only
> Win32 & os2).  So, either you need to get the RAR program for dos (and
> extract it the way you would any other archive), or download the 2 megabyte
> zip file that I'm going to be posting shortly.  (In comparison, the RAR
> archive is about 600k.)  I've also made a smaller (pixel area-wise) version,
> which is compressed using a standard video codec (at some loss of quality),
> and is about 180k.  Both will be posted by 9:00am EST this morning.
> (8-oct-98)

Your server tells me that I don't have permission to access the ZIP
file.

"Your client does not have permission to get URL
/~pbg1854/fractals/files/Jul1Animation.zip from this server."


Ken...




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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:38:49 -0000
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) IN LESS THAN TWELVE HOURS....

Pete wrote:

>Yeah, ActiveX is pretty dumb, but barely anyone other than MS uses it,
>really :)  Of course, a few pages use it, but (almost) all the controls come
>from MS's database thing.  It asks you when you want to download a new one,
>too.

This rather depends on your settings. I have all activex use/dl set to
disabled. I noticed though that some people have set their IE security such
that ALL activex is automatically dl-ed. I suggest all IE users take a look at
their security.

>ActiveX's just MS's way of one-upping Netscape, after all...  I mean,
>it's almost a game: Navigator -> IE, JavaScript -> VBScript, Java ->
>ActiveX, etc etc.  But, then again, Netscape has paralleled MS a couple
>times too.  ActiveX is IMHO just an instant-on plugin spec, pretty much.
>There are lots of Netscape plugins that have been implemented as ActiveX
>controls for IE.  So, if you just don't d/l any new ActiveX controls from
>potentially unsafe sites, you're ok.

You're never ok, but you can approx it by disabling activeX dl completely.

One note: if you have win98 and want to use 'Windows Update' or something, you
*will* need activex.

>IE keeps all the ones you've gotten so
>far on your computer, so you rarely need to do that, anyway.

Yeah.. unless you keep reinstalling all the time... that's the problem always
with that Windows update, too: updates aren't stored on your harddrive for
later use.

Dean




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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:19:47 -0000
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: [fractal-art] Immersive-visualization  Solutions

Pete wrote:

>> The archiver I used (RAR) gives very good compression ratios (10:1!!), but
>> unfortunately, it's not widely used.

I must say I've never seen a file archiver that does have such a good ratio as
RAR, but 10:1 surely isn't representative. It does little better that arj,
zip, jar, and a lot better than zoo, lzh etc, but that's all.
IF you're not compressing weakly-compressable binaries (exes and such). RAR
can then even enlarge the file. It is annoying that this cannot(?) be turned
off.
Also, RAR doesn't have as many options as ARJ has. But ok, who *uses* all ARJ
options? Although the more advanced, the nicer :-)

The DOS version of RAR is also user-friendly. It of course works in command
line mode, but also in a text-based full-screen interface. NOTE: the command
line version of RAR delivered with WinRAR does *not* support the dos screen
interface.

Also, RAR is terribly slow with it's solid archive implementation. I have RAR
files of over a 100 MBs, which take one or two eternities to be read, both by
the dos and windows versions. The dos version further rereads the archive
completely when you enter an archive's subdir from the screen interface. This
could take up to 15mins! The windows version stores the archive info a bit
better in memory; the archive is not to be completely reread after browsing
through intra-archival directories. And here we are only browsing through the
archive, not even doing anything useful like extracting or so.
And there's a thing you should NEVER do with rar files: delete a file from the
archive. This takes an eternity cause rar has a ridiculous method of keeping
the archive real solid.

Then, well, it *has* to be a coincidence (I hope!), but after burning a cd
containing a rar, the rar archives again and again have crc errors. We (me and
two fellow list-members) have this all the time with rar archives, and never
with zips, arjs, etc.

>> Not only that, but an archive created
>> with the most efficient compression can't be converted into a dos EXE (only

>> Win32 & os2).

Yeah.. with the win/os2 versions! The real dos version of rar DOES support dos
SFXs!

>> So, either you need to get the RAR program for dos (and
>> extract it the way you would any other archive), or download the 2 megabyte
>> zip file that I'm going to be posting shortly.  (In comparison, the RAR
>> archive is about 600k.)

I really wonder what pre-set compression rate you used for (win)zip. The
difference in zip/rar is too much for zip to be at max compression.

I also have a rar-related question: what is RAR' url??? My rar documentations
mentions some hazy url http://www.thepoint.net/~jkracht  Couple of weeks ago I
checked, but i do not believe this url to be still active.

Dean




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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:07:35 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 2:04:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Maybe the right people to sell fractal prints to are the people who
 have never seen Fractint.  :)
  >>
Or the ones who ask "Whats a fractal"? when I tell them why I was up all
night. :-P
Steve

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:13:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 12:50:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:
<<Key is finding market>>
<<  "I should be able to
 do that myself, so why pay for it?".  >>
I agree totally...same for me, but most people don't have the interest or
drive
to creativity.

What "moves" an artist is often 'over the head' of the general public???

Hummh.....I sense a thread coming the size of the Mississippi.???   Hope so!
LOL
Steve


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:19:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 12:35:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Just for reference, this is what I charge.  My prints are photographic,
 rather than inkjet.

 Size    Price
 5x7    $10.00
 8x10    25.00
 11x14   50.00
 16x20  100.00
 24x30  250.00 >>
I would LOVE....I say again LOVE...to hear a detailes description of the whole
process....starting with "This is the size I render to print a ??X?? photo."
"This is how I transfer/transport the file [ which is XXX KB in size ] to the
person that
makes the print" Paper used...etc....
Off the list is fine... but others might  be interested in the process
described by someone actually doing it.
Cheers,
Steve

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:44:04 -0400
From: [e-mail] (ace kauffman)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

>My prints are photographic,
rather than inkjet.<

Kerry,
How and why
Do photographic prints last longer.  How do you get a developable
negative from a computer? Are you taking a photo of a printout.

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:05:58 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 8:04:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Do photographic prints last longer. >>
I think they look better.
Steve

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:30:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 7:16:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<
 What "moves" an artist is often 'over the head' of the general public???

 Hummh.....I sense a thread coming the size of the Mississippi.???   Hope so!
>>

Forom what I've seen at the art shows I've been involved with, only 2 things
sell consistently:  Photographs of animals and water colors of flowers.
Fifty+ years after World War II, there are still large groups of people who
"don't get" abstract art.

But I have to say, that I've only experienced positive feedback from the
public, both from those who know about fractals and those who know nothing
about them.  A wide range of people always asks me about my pictures wherever
I show them.

Now, if I can only get them to take the next step and part with their money...

Bill Rossi

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:34:33 -0400
From: [e-mail] (ace kauffman)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

<In a message dated 10/8/98 12:50:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:
<<Key is finding market>>
<<  "I should be able to
 do that myself, so why pay for it?".  >>
I agree totally...same for me, but most people don't have the interest or
drive
to creativity.
What "moves" an artist is often 'over the head' of the general public???>
- ------------
Could go on a titrate defending the "general public" or say do you really
think folks who buy pink plastic flamingo are  likely to be impresses
with a wonderful Gallet.
Just maybe, maybe, maybe, the general public (most People?) includes a
lot of creative folks who don't want to spend their creative energy
plugging numbers into a box.  We pay for art because it brings us
pleasure.  Because one has recordings of others music does not mean it is
"over the head" of the listener.   Often what we enjoy the most is what
inspires us the most and not necessarily in the same field.  Less is
"over the head" of the "general public" than the self proclaimed "elite"
often think.
Kirsten Moe


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:50:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 8:35:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< From what I've seen at the art shows I've been involved with, only 2 things
 sell consistently:  Photographs of animals and water colors of flowers.
 Fifty+ years after World War II, there are still large groups of people who
 "don't get" abstract art. >>
Yes, I know, same with music. "Where's 1...I can't  dance to that! LOL
But that's ok....
I mean ....it's only my perception....there's no better or worse... and
everyone is certainly, just exactly and wonderfully... who they're supposed to
be [ how could it be otherwise :-P ] I struggle with the balance of sales and
creative freedom and have found a bit of a trick that I use ocassionally.
Example being: A print ...a watercolored
flower in the full foreground but... with incredible subtle and articulate
detail in the back and off to the sides.?? Maybe there's a way to express what
we need to in a 'multidimentional' way....that is to say....being accessable
to the 'general' public yet never compromising ones drive to grow and expand
beyond the boundries of the last work?
Cheers,
Steve

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:21:39 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: [fractal-art] cost of images

In a message dated 10/8/98 8:38:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Less is
 "over the head" of the "general public" than the self proclaimed "elite"
 often think. >>
No need to 'defend' the GP...  they've not been attacked. !!!

The "proclomation" is often the proclomation of the market not the artist.
"Elete" [imho] is just a term that seperates one from self which is not my
preference...
But...when some one doesn't "see" what is there....it's all to obvious....but
it's also perfectly ok.
Every instance is different.
Divercity is a blessing. :-)
Steve


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End of fractint-digest V1 #309
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