ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/v01.n012

Internet Message Format | 1997-09-02 | 42KB

From: [e-mail] (fractint Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: fractint Digest V1 #12
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence:


fractint Digest      Wednesday, September 3 1997      Volume 01 : Number 012



In this issue:

    (fractint) Gumbycat's home page
    Re: (fractint) 32bit version of fractint
    Re: (fractint) 32bit version of fractint
    (fractint) Fractint bug?
    Re: (fractint) Julia bug? was Those awful viewwindows
    Re: (fractint) Julia bug? was Those awful viewwindows
    (fractint) Introducing myself
    Re: (fractint) Julia bug? was Those awful viewwindows
    Re: (fractint) 32bit version of fractint
    (fractint) formula identification
    (fractint) Printing
    (fractint) Lypunov Inside?
    Re: (fractint) Printing
    (fractint) formula identification
    Re: (fractint) Julia bug?
    Re: (fractint) Julia bug?
    Re: (fractint) Printing
    Re: (fractint) Printing

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the fractint
or fractint-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 23:11:52 -0700
From: "Mike or Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Gumbycat's home page

Hi, all!

Geocities remodeled, and in the process they screwed up my URL!

If you're looking for me at:
http://www.geocities.com/~gumbycat

and you can't get in, try:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5519

Hopefully, GC will get straightened out soon, but who knows . . .

Thanks,
Linda
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5519
http://www.fortunecity.com//tattooine/stephenson/5/abpf.html
[e-mail]


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:36:48 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Michael R. Ganss" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 32bit version of fractint

Paul,

> Why do you claim the inside-disks are infeasible?

I have repeatedly tried to implement this method and have each time
come to the conclusion that Fisher's method does not work for
arbitrary points inside M. For a lot of points it does work, but for some
the algorithm yields a gross overestimation which IMO makes it
infeasible to include in a general purpose Mandelbrot drawing
program. But I'd love to be proven wrong (although I tried hard
to implement it exactly as described). If you have succesfully
implemented this method, please make it available (if you haven't done
so already and I'm unaware of it).

> As for component detection, I was already planning to have the basic
> Mandel formula blast both the cardioid and the biggest disk automatically.
> That would really speed up exploration of SH valley and elephant valley,
> two favored watering holes of fractal lovers everywhere.

Sure, that's a good speedup.

> You seem to refer here to a generalized component detection. It sounds
> like this is meant to spot circles and cardioids anywhere. How would it
> work? I considered such a thing myself once. Once. It seemed infeasible,
> as to get components of period n requires accurately finding the roots of
> big polynomials... order 2^n I believe. If you know the center and radius
> of a circle, or the cusp point and opposite point of a cardioid, you can
> calculate away the whole thing and floodfill it. Another approach would be
> to spot the components other ways, but I can't think of one that isn't
> lossy.

For any point c inside M you can find its component center through
Newton iteration if you calculate the derivative of z and the period
of c which is the period of the component. Then calculate Taylor
coefficients for the mapping p:W->D. These coefficients, the center
and the period make up a set of "parameters" which describe the
component. Now if you suspect a point c to be inside M, calculate the
approximate value of p(c) for a list of components you set up as you
scan the image. If p(c)<1.0 then c is inside the component. In-depth
coverage can be found in Jay R. Hill's article in "The Future Use of
Fractals". I've had some success implementing this method (disks work
beautifully), but I've had some trouble with the cardioids. As with
SOI, this method should prove advantageous for very deep zooms.

- --
Michael R. Ganss        Cooper:  Look!  Ducks!  On a lake!  Ahhh.
[e-mail]        http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~rms/AlmondBread/

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:40:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) 32bit version of fractint

>
>Paul,
>
>> Why do you claim the inside-disks are infeasible?
>
>I have repeatedly tried to implement this method and have each time
>come to the conclusion that Fisher's method does not work for
>arbitrary points inside M. For a lot of points it does work, but for some
>the algorithm yields a gross overestimation which IMO makes it
>infeasible to include in a general purpose Mandelbrot drawing
>program. But I'd love to be proven wrong (although I tried hard
>to implement it exactly as described). If you have succesfully
>implemented this method, please make it available (if you haven't done
>so already and I'm unaware of it).

What about outside disks? I tried those once and it sometimes
overestimated...someone told me there was a slight bug in the algorithm as
described in The Science of Fractal Images. I'd like pseudo-code for a
working outside-disks. Perhaps the same thing is causing trouble with the
inside disks!

>> You seem to refer here to a generalized component detection. It sounds
>> like this is meant to spot circles and cardioids anywhere. How would it
>> work? I considered such a thing myself once. Once. It seemed infeasible,
>> as to get components of period n requires accurately finding the roots of
>> big polynomials... order 2^n I believe. If you know the center and radius
>> of a circle, or the cusp point and opposite point of a cardioid, you can
>> calculate away the whole thing and floodfill it. Another approach would be
>> to spot the components other ways, but I can't think of one that isn't
>> lossy.
>
>For any point c inside M you can find its component center through
>Newton iteration if you calculate the derivative of z and the period
>of c which is the period of the component. Then calculate Taylor
>coefficients for the mapping p:W->D. These coefficients, the center
>and the period make up a set of "parameters" which describe the
>component. Now if you suspect a point c to be inside M, calculate the
>approximate value of p(c) for a list of components you set up as you
>scan the image. If p(c)<1.0 then c is inside the component. In-depth
>coverage can be found in Jay R. Hill's article in "The Future Use of
>Fractals". I've had some success implementing this method (disks work
>beautifully), but I've had some trouble with the cardioids. As with
>SOI, this method should prove advantageous for very deep zooms.

Okay. But what is the mapping p? For a disk, it's (x,y)*const+(a,b) for
the center a,b and radius const of the component. How do you determine,
though, that it is a) a disk and not a cardioid, b) const and a and b, and
c) what are the mappings for cardioids etc.?


- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:51:59 +0200
From: Jacco Burger <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint bug?

This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

- --=_5C09693A.46274BBE
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

I wonder if anybody has encountered this problem with saving an image to a
parameter file. It occures  when the bailoutest-parameter (z-screen) is
combined with continuous potential (y-screen).

I had an image in which the bailoutest parameter was set to imag and
continuous potential activated. I wanted to examine the effect of different
values for the potential-bailout value. So I stored the image to a
parameter file with the b-command, changed the pot.-bailout value a few
times and stored every image to the parameter-file, without letting
Fractint fully calculate. I made a DOS batchfile and let it run.

To my surprise I found that in the first image the bailoutest-value
(z-screen) was set to imag, in the other images the bailoutest-value was
set to the default-value of mod. When I examined the parfile I noticed that
only the first entry had the bailoutest=imag statement. In the other
entries it just wasn't there. I tried this procedure another time and the
same thing happened again.

So it looks like as if when you change the potential-bailoutvalue and use
the b-command to store the image to a parameter-file, Fractint ignores the
bailoutest=xxx command and doesn't store it.

I have a parameter-file attached. Can someone please have a look?

I know I can fix the file by editing it with a wordprocessor, but that is
quite a hassle every time. Is it possible to have this fixed in the next
version of Fractint?

Thanks in advance!

Cheerio,

Jacco
e-mail: [e-mail]

(By the way, please let me know if the par-file isn't attached. Our
mail-server has let me down a couple of times before.)

- --=_5C09693A.46274BBE
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="970902.PAR"

j018-0             { ; c.p. with bailoutest=imag
                     ; problem with storing to parfile
                     ; (c) 1997, Jacco Burger
  reset=1960 type=fn*fn function=acos/sin
  center-mag=-2.18929290500000000/+2.15404510500000000/1.936443
  bailoutest=imag inside=0 potential=255/250/0
  colors=222BHF<49>afSafTbgTchUbgT<12>QWMQVLPVLOUL<11>IOHHOHHNHHNG<12>BHDA\
  HDAHDAHDAHD<2>AHDBHDBIECIECJF<2>FLHGMIINK<2>MROOTPQURSWTUXU<4>egehigkkin\
  nlqqorqo<4>ppnpomoomnnl<2>llilkikihjhg<5>bZ_aXZ_VXZTV<3>SJOQGMODJMBHK8FI\
  5C<3>I7EI8EI8EI9EIAE<10>IHGIIGIJHJKI<8>SXRTYSV_UW`W<4>`debega`c<6>O25<12\
  >lcS<9>B62<10>MPLORNOQN<6>IDG
  }

j018-1             { ; c.p. with bailoutest=imag
                     ; problem with storing to parfile
                     ; (c) 1997, Jacco Burger
  reset=1960 type=fn*fn function=acos/sin
  center-mag=-2.18871307500000000/+2.15404510500000000/1.936443/0.9996
  inside=0 potential=255/250/1
  colors=222BHF<47>`eR`eSafSafTbgTchU<13>QWMQVLPVLOUL<11>IOHHOHHNHHNG<11>B\
  HDBHDAHDAHDAHD<3>AHDBHDBIECIECJF<2>FLHGMIINK<2>MROOTPQURSWTUXU<3>cecegeh\
  igkkinnlqqorqo<4>ppnpomoomnnl<2>llilkikih<5>c``bZ_aXZ_VXZTV<3>SJOQGMODJM\
  BHK8FI5C<2>I7EI7EI8EI8EI9E<10>IGGIHGIIGIJHJKI<8>SXRTYSV_UW`W<4>`debega`c\
  <6>O25<12>lcS<9>B62<10>MPLORNOQN<6>IDG
  }

j018-5             { ; c.p. with bailoutest=imag
                     ; problem with storing to parfile
                     ; (c) 1997, Jacco Burger
  reset=1960 type=fn*fn function=acos/sin
  center-mag=-2.18871307500000000/+2.15404510500000000/1.936443/0.9996
  inside=0 potential=255/250/5
  colors=222BHF<47>`eR`eSafSafTbgTchU<13>QWMQVLPVLOUL<11>IOHHOHHNHHNG<11>B\
  HDBHDAHDAHDAHD<3>AHDBHDBIECIECJF<2>FLHGMIINK<2>MROOTPQURSWTUXU<3>cecegeh\
  igkkinnlqqorqo<4>ppnpomoomnnl<2>llilkikih<5>c``bZ_aXZ_VXZTV<3>SJOQGMODJM\
  BHK8FI5C<2>I7EI7EI8EI8EI9E<10>IGGIHGIIGIJHJKI<8>SXRTYSV_UW`W<4>`debega`c\
  <6>O25<12>lcS<9>B62<10>MPLORNOQN<6>IDG
  }

j018-25            { ; c.p. with bailoutest=imag
                     ; problem with storing to parfile
                     ; (c) 1997, Jacco Burger
  reset=1960 type=fn*fn function=acos/sin
  center-mag=-2.18871307500000000/+2.15404510500000000/1.936443/0.9996
  inside=0 potential=255/250/25
  colors=222BHF<47>`eR`eSafSafTbgTchU<13>QWMQVLPVLOUL<11>IOHHOHHNHHNG<11>B\
  HDBHDAHDAHDAHD<3>AHDBHDBIECIECJF<2>FLHGMIINK<2>MROOTPQURSWTUXU<3>cecegeh\
  igkkinnlqqorqo<4>ppnpomoomnnl<2>llilkikih<5>c``bZ_aXZ_VXZTV<3>SJOQGMODJM\
  BHK8FI5C<2>I7EI7EI8EI8EI9E<10>IGGIHGIIGIJHJKI<8>SXRTYSV_UW`W<4>`debega`c\
  <6>O25<12>lcS<9>B62<10>MPLORNOQN<6>IDG
  }


- --=_5C09693A.46274BBE--

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:03:08 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Julia bug? was Those awful viewwindows

Rich Thomson wrote:

>Type 'v' to get the view window screen, then say "no" for "Preview image".

Thank you very much.  I should have known it must be easy.   :-)

Now, is this a bug?  Might pass as FoTD if it had a romantic story to
go with it.

I zoomed in on the right most period 12 midget and switched to the
Julia set view.  Now look at this.  Something is wrong.  A flaw here at
magnification 1063 begins at magnification 20.  Press the space bar
to see the midget, up close. It is one from my complete collection
(coordinates found as part of the MSet area project).  Speaking of
collections, did you know Fractint has a limit of 2000 samples in a
par file?  I found out!

The latest Pentiums are fast enough that it takes longer to press
SHIFT-@, DOWN arrow, ENTER than to draw the image.  Is there
a 'next' par image key which will get the next one without leaving
the graphics mode?  Also, in zooming in, it takes longer to get the
dozen or so PageUp key strokes in than to draw images.  At least
until you are at 1e12 magnification or so.   A keystroke to get the
max-zoom box would be nice.  BTW, the fact that the zoom box stays
centered on the center coordinates is very useful.  Looking for very
small features is easy when you have the coordinates. Of course,
you can press Z, F6 and type in a new magnification. But the view
along the way is the fun part of zooming.

For deep zooming, I use a trick to make Fractint draw a small view for
early sampling and still keep the 1024x768 setting. It is to put the zoom
focus in the upper right of the little zoom box. Press ENTER to start the
zoomed in image.  Before it gets far (as quick as you can) press
PageUP then CTRL-Right arrow forcing the calculation to the left side.
Now the calculation will occur in the upper left corner. Usually I see the
next level of interest in about 20% of the scan down the screen. If I
have missed, I can hit PageUP, UpArrow and/or Left Arrow and fill
in a narrow strip in those directions.  This will help you in DEEPZOOM
mode where you are looking for a midget (and hoping you are
not caught in a Misiurewiz trap).

Jay

PS.  If someone recognizes these colors, I admit it, they are from
someone's post, but I lost track of whose.  Let me know whose they
are. I think they are nice, so here they are again.

3191_12_1867       { ; 0.471038112527672102    0.354079734991600297
  reset=1960 type=julia passes=1
  center-mag=+0.00000000000000000/-0.00000000000000000/1063.278
  params=0.4710381123973365/0.3540797351219784 float=y maxiter=4096
  colors=000AAA<6>SKEULEWMEYOF_PF<5>nYIpZIs_Ju`JxbKzcK<20>AAA<20>hcz<21>AA\
  A<20>zzc<20>AAADEE<19>mzz<20>AAA<19>awaczcbxb<20>AAA<20>zcm<19>DBC
  }




- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:23:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Paul Derbyshire)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Julia bug? was Those awful viewwindows

For slow deepzoom exploration before reaching a "target", what I do is use
a tiny view-window. 'v', yes, and 4 or 5 does the trick. then 'v' and no
to draw the target fullscreen. (Of course, you didn't know how to turn
off the view windows before...:-))

- --
    .*.  Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese]
 -()  <  When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix"
    `*'  bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me]
Paul Derbyshire [e-mail], http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:55:50 -0700
From: cindy mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Introducing myself

Hello Everyone,

Have been a Fractint user for ever. Remember XT's and CGA? Fractint was there
and still is with my every upgrade, and still a"DOS" program. Even with Win95
I use dos as much as possible, (I do have Fractint on my desktop too).
I have been on the list for a week and am thrilled that there are so many
Fractint users out there. I am terrible at reading documentation so have
been learning
many things.

For the Fractint Wish List -- a catalog feature to compare the subtle
differences
between commands. As it is I use a dos program GifDesk 4.5 to view the Gifs.
Another nice utility would to be able to delete those gif files that have
been altered
after using fractint. I seem to have alot of fractint gif's that I have d/l
and can't use.

                               Cindy Mitchell




- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:49:03 -0400
From: Les St Clair <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Julia bug? was Those awful viewwindows

Jay,

>>Now, is this a bug?  =

>>I zoomed in on the right most period 12 midget and switched to the
>>Julia set view.  Now look at this.  Something is wrong. =


Seems to be a periodicity checking error. Switch to periodicity=3D0 and t=
he
flaw goes away (the "inside" drawing takes longer too, but that just show=
s
the speed-up you get from the periodicity logic).

>>... did you know Fractint has a limit of 2000 samples in a
>>par file?

Shucks! Now I'll only be able to put five and a half years worth of FOTD =
in
one file <G>!

>>If someone recognizes these colors, I admit it, they are from
>>someone's post, but I lost track of whose.

Did you know that you can create a "color plug-in" par file by editing ou=
t
everything but the colors=3Dstatement?
You can use this method to annotate your color collections so you never
forget where they came from, like so:

JAY_001       { ; I borrowed these from Joe Bloggs
  colors=3D000AAA<6>SKEULEWMEYOF_PF<5>nYIpZIs_Ju`JxbKzcK<20>AAA<20>hcz<21=
>AA\
  A<20>zzc<20>AAADEE<19>mzz<20>AAA<19>awaczcbxb<20>AAA<20>zcm<19>DBC
  }

Once you've drawn an image just open your "colors" par in the usual way a=
nd
Fractint will simply read in the new colors.

- - Les

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:13:00 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Michael R. Ganss" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 32bit version of fractint

Paul,

> What about outside disks? I tried those once and it sometimes
> overestimated...someone told me there was a slight bug in the algorithm as
> described in The Science of Fractal Images. I'd like pseudo-code for a
> working outside-disks. Perhaps the same thing is causing trouble with the
> inside disks!

I don't think so, because the inside-disks approach is very different
from the outside one (as you know, not just set x=1 instead of 0 and
it works for inside disks as well). I used to have a working outside
disks (years ago), maybe I'l hack up one again when I have the time.

> Okay. But what is the mapping p? For a disk, it's (x,y)*const+(a,b) for
> the center a,b and radius const of the component. How do you determine,
> though, that it is a) a disk and not a cardioid, b) const and a and b, and
> c) what are the mappings for cardioids etc.?

p (rho) is the product of all z's from z_n to z_{n+p} where p is the
period. At the component center this is 0. Besides Jay's article
there's some about it in "The Beauty of Fractals" in the Mandelbrot
chapter. You don't need to know if it's a cardioid or a disk, just if
it's inside or not, although Jay describes a heuristic to determine
disk/cardioid.

- --
Michael R. Ganss        Cooper:  Look!  Ducks!  On a lake!  Ahhh.
[e-mail]        http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~rms/AlmondBread/

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:17:38 +0000
From: Peter Otterstaetter <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) formula identification

Hi friends,

>>Peter Otterstaetter wrote:
>>I think, to identify a formula, the most important thing is NOT its
>>name but its CONTENT. So why not use a "content dependend
>>identifier" like a "hash count" or a "fingerprint" (may be some
>>techniques used in PGP would help) as a formula identifier? Just
>>an idea.

>George Martin wrote:
>Worth a look, but this would constitute a *major* change in the way
>Fractint handles the identification of formula, par, ifs, and
>lsystem entries. Also, there is a fair amount of formula rewriting
>going on. For example, quite a few formulas have been rewritten to
>take advantage of the new if..else feature of the formula parser.
>These formulas look much different than the originals, and run much
>faster; but in fact draw the identical images as the original
>formulas with the same underlying math. I wouldn't want to lose the
>ability to have such improved formulas automatically used by old
>parfiles, as they can be now because the formula name remains the
>same.

>Tim Wegner wrote:
>This is an interesting idea, but when you try to implement it, there
>are problems. Trivial changes in algebra would change the "hash
>count", as would changes in names of variables.
>Still, it's worth reconsidering. But for now, serious fractal
>fanatics need OrgFrm or something similar.

Let me be a bit more precise. The hash count idea requires a new
thinking about a formula.
Let a formula have a "description part" and one ore more
"implementation parts".
The "description part" describes the "formula mathematics" in a
normalized formal format (which we have to define; OK lot of work!).
The hash count (or fingerprint or whatever) is taken from the
"description part".
The "implementation parts" describe some implementation of the
"formula mathematics" (like an entry in the well known frm-file).
Changes in the implementation parts (like different variable names,
if-then-else structure etc.) would not affect the hash count.
So what we need to identify a formula is its hash count (or whatever)
and its implementation name (if there are more than one
implementations).

Hope this helps to clearify the idea.

Peter



- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Otterstaetter
BASF Aktiengesellschaft
Zentralbereich Informatik
ZXA/U Anwendungsentwicklung
D-67056 Ludwigshafen
E-mail: [e-mail]
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
All things come to those who wait. They come, but often come too late.
    From Lady Mary M. Curie: Tout Vient a Qui Sait Attendre (1890)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:57:38 -0500
From: Justin Kolodziej <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Printing

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCB847.6DCEF600
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Help me! I can't print on my HP Deskjet 694C printer.  I tried using =
the Paintjet printer setting, but I got this striped thing that wasn't =
even close to what I wanted. What do I have to do? Do I have to download =
Winfrac instead?

Justin Kolodziej

[e-mail]


- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCB847.6DCEF600
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1008.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2> Help me! I can't =
print on my HP=20
Deskjet 694C printer.  I tried using the Paintjet printer setting, =
but I=20
got this striped thing that wasn't even close to what I wanted. What do =
I have=20
to do? Do I have to download Winfrac instead?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Justin Kolodziej</FONT>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</=
A></FONT></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BCB847.6DCEF600--


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:05:52 +0500 (GMT)
From: Ramiro Perez <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Lypunov Inside?

Hello,

This is something that I found while I was experimenting with the lyapunov
exponent for the mandelbrot set.
The idea was to calculate the expontent for every point that is inside of
the set, and since the points that nears the boundary becomes more chaotic
as they came close to it, I espect level sets coming from the center of
the M. set to the boundary. but the history is another, because instead of
the level sets, the inside of the set (and of every bud) has a radial
estructure, with rays that come from the boundary to the center..
The julia sets too, has a weird (but beautiful) lakes, so check this par
and formula file, and if anyone knows why that happens, I wish to hear the
explanation...


                     Ramiro Perez


=========================lyap.frm============================
mandlyap{ ;P1 is the bailout
z=0, c=pixel, k=0, l=0, z1=0:
z1=z1*z1+c
dz1=2*z1
k=k+1
l=l+log(dz1)
z=l/k
|z1|<=p1
}

julialyap{ ;P1 the C point P2 the bailout
z=0, c=p1, k=0, l=0, z1=pixel:
z1=z1*z1+c
dz1=2*z1
k=k+1
l=l+log(dz1)
z=l/k
|z1|<=p2
}

=========================mlyap.par============================

mand1              {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=lyap.frm formulaname=mandlyap
  passes=1 center-mag=-0.625978/-4.44089e-016/0.8503401 params=100/0
  float=y fillcolor=0 inside=zmag outside=summ
  colors=CCC03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<3>0Nk0Eq\
  08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<2>0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq0\
  8u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<2>0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08\
  u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<2>0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u
  }

Jul1               {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=lyap.frm formulaname=julialyap
  passes=1 center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-1/0.01/100/0 float=y
  fillcolor=0 inside=zmag outside=summ
  colors=CCC0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT\
  2jW0gZ<3>0Nk0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<\
  2>0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<2\
  >0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ0bb\
  0Ye
  }

Jul1a              {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=lyap.frm formulaname=julialyap
  passes=1 center-mag=0.344288/0.416493/13.33333 params=-1/0.01/100/0
  float=y fillcolor=0 inside=zmag outside=summ
  colors=CCC0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT\
  2jW0gZ<3>0Nk0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<\
  2>0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ<2\
  >0Sh0Nk0Jn0Eq08u03x20x<14>z00z20<13>zu0zy0xz0<9>Lz0Hz0Fy2<8>3kT2jW0gZ0bb\
  0Ye
  }

======================================================================


 Ramiro Perez Clare Nash                          .        _/        .    .
 System Adminstrator                .     *     .        _/      *
 PANNet                        *     +    .         _/ _/ _/   .     + .
 e-mails:                  .       .           _/    _/    _/       +       .
 [e-mail]                          _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/       .
 [e-mail]       .     *      _/    _/    _/           .      *
 [e-mail]        +        +  _/ _/ _/      *     .          .
 Web pages:                          .       _/         .          *
 http://www.utp.ac.pa/~rperez    *         _/     .  +   .     .        +


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:15:28 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Grasso, Nick)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Printing

At 08:57 AM 9/3/97 -0500, Justin Kolodziej wrote:
>       I tried using the Paintjet printer setting, but I  got this striped
>thing that wasn't even close to what I wanted. What do I have  to do? Do I
>have to download Winfrac instead?

Justin,
The printing capabilities of fractint are quite rudimentary. I don't think
many people print directly from fractint. You are much better off using a
third party program. If you are running Windows, get the shareware program
PaintShop Pro. It is easy to use and does a great job of printing fractals
on my Deskjet 870.

Nick
[e-mail]


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:16:13 -0400
From: George Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) formula identification

Peter,

>
Let me be a bit more precise. The hash count idea requires a new
thinking about a formula. Let a formula have a "description part" and one
or more "implementation parts". The "description part" describes the
"formula mathematics" in a normalized formal format (which we have to
define; OK lot of work!).
<

I'm always ready for new thinking! Perhaps you could give an example - here
are two formulas, the second of which is a simple optimization of the
first. These formulas would produce identical images. Could you show what
the "description part" of each of these formulas would be? Presumably it
would be such that if the formulas were written by different persons, the
description part would be the same.

Example1 {
  z = c = pixel:
  z = z * z + sin(c)
  |z| < 4
}

Example2 {
  z = pixel
  c = sin(pixel):
  z = z * z + c
  |z| < 4
}

A bit more challenging <g> would be to take the "before and after" versions
of the Carr2821 formula (you can get these in the if..else tutorial that is
part of the fractint 19.6 package) and show how independent writers of
these two formulas would generate the same descriptive section.

Someone asked me a year or so ago if it would be possible to go through the
Orgform compilation and weed out "duplicate math" formulas, so I have
already given a bit of thought to the idea of formula "content". Some
things are easy, such as recognizing that the name of a variable does not
affect the underlying math (in fact, when orgform.exe decides to skip a
formula because it is identical to a formula of the same name already in
the compilation, it makes the comparison without regard to names given to
variables). Order of operation matters are probably in range, such as
recognizing that z = a*b is the same as z = b*a. Algebraic equivalency
becomes harder; recognizing the equivalence of such expressions as (x+y)^2
and x^2+2*x*y+y^2 opens up a Pandora's box of Goedelian proportions.
Developing an algorithm to recognize the equivalency of major rewrites such
as with Carr2821 seems unimaginable to me.

Regards,

George Martin

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:05:29 -0700
From: "Jay Hill"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Julia bug?

Les (and Charles) wrote:
>>Julia set view.  Now look at this.  Something is wrong.
>Seems to be a periodicity checking error. Switch to periodicity=0.....

This thread started when I wrote the 'Those awful viewwindows' note. Now I
see the 'v' key fixes that. Now, I looked for 'periodicity' in the
fractint.doc.
It again looks there is no hot key for this. I locate a midget at high
magnification with solid gueesing on, periodicity on and any other gimic
to make it fast. Now I just press space bar twice and get the Julia set.
How do I easily get periodicity=0. What I find is par file methods which
would put me back to what I was (needlessly) complaining of earlier.

(Fractint programmers note: no offence ment by any of my rants!  Been
programming for 35 years, so I have some hint of what produced Fractint.)

Here is my sci.fractals sig:

int main(){float g,s,f,r,i;char*_="!/-,;<:!lnb/bh`r/ylqbAmmhI/S/x`K\n";
int m,u,e=0;_[32]++;for(;e<3919;){u=(256*(s=(r=.0325*(m=e%80)-2
)*r+(i=.047*(e/80)-1.128)*i)-96)*s+32*r<3?25:16+32*r+16*s<1?31:0;
if(u==(s=f=0))do g=s*s-f*f+r;while((f=2*s*f+i)*f+(s=g)*g<4&&++u<27);
putchar(_[++e>3840&&m<25?31-m:m>78?32:u]^1);}}

Jay



- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:41:29 PST
From: NOEL_GIFFIN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Julia bug?

 "Jay Hill" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Les (and Charles) wrote:
>>>Julia set view.  Now look at this.  Something is wrong.
>>Seems to be a periodicity checking error. Switch to periodicity=0.....

>This thread started when I wrote the 'Those awful viewwindows' note. Now I
>see the 'v' key fixes that. Now, I looked for 'periodicity' in the
>fractint.doc.
>It again looks there is no hot key for this. I locate a midget at high
>magnification with solid gueesing on, periodicity on and any other gimic
>to make it fast. Now I just press space bar twice and get the Julia set.
>How do I easily get periodicity=0. What I find is par file methods which
>would put me back to what I was (needlessly) complaining of earlier.

The "G" keyboard command lets you give a startup parameter interactively.
From there you can say periodicity=no to turn this feature off.

    Cheers,
    Noel

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:35:16 -0700
From: Pierre Aubert Espenan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Printing

Justin Kolodziej wrote:
>
>  Help me! I can't print on my HP Deskjet 694C printer.  I tried using
> the Paintjet printer setting, but I got this striped thing that wasn't
> even close to what I wanted. What do I have to do? Do I have to
> download Winfrac instead?
>
> Justin Kolodziej
>
> [e-mail]
Dear Justin:
Try using the Windows port of fractint.  Save the fractal in BMP
format and use the Windows printer drivers that came with your
printer.  This always works for me.
                    Pierre Espenan

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:29:49 -0500
From: Jack Gill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Printing

I'm having the same Deskjet printing problems as Justin.  As I'm new to
the list and to Fractint, please explain what is meant by 'windows port
of fractint'.

TIA

Jack Gill

Pierre Aubert Espenan wrote:

> Justin Kolodziej wrote:
> >
> >  Help me! I can't print on my HP Deskjet 694C printer.  I tried
> using
> > the Paintjet printer setting, but I got this striped thing that
> wasn't
> > even close to what I wanted. What do I have to do? Do I have to
> > download Winfrac instead?
> >
> > Justin Kolodziej
> >
> > [e-mail]
> Dear Justin:
> Try using the Windows port of fractint.  Save the fractal in BMP
> format and use the Windows printer drivers that came with your
> printer.  This always works for me.
>                                         Pierre Espenan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"




- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

------------------------------

End of fractint Digest V1 #12
*****************************

To subscribe to fractint Digest, send the command:

    subscribe fractint-digest

in the body of a message to "[e-mail]".  If you want to
subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such
as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-fractint":

    subscribe fractint-digest [e-mail]

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "fractint-digest"
in the commands above with "fractint".

Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/fractint/archive.  These are organized by date.