ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/fractint.199904

Internet Message Format | 1999-04-29 | 268KB

From: "Randall Britten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Julia set params
Date: 01 Apr 1999 10:57:50 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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In short, MiniSanMarco1:
Re: -0.1613432317972183
Im: 1.036044612526894

Why?  See the description below:

The San Marco Fractal (as Mandelbrot himself called it) is probably a well
known Julia set:
Re: -0.7498431447893381 (approx)
Im:  0

It corresponds to the intersection of the cardioid and circle of the
Mandelbrot set.

The space bar feature in fractint 19.6 helps you discover Julia's for each
point in Mandelbrot space (allow me to call this the MainJulia), so I
wondered what happened when one found a MiniBrot and picked the
corresponding point to the MainBrot to be the Julia Param.  The results are
quite exciting.  The Julia set as a whole looks quite different, but will
contain the MainJulia, and repeat it over and over (similar to discovering
MiniBrots allover the place, one discovers MiniJulias allover the place).

As an example, for the minibrot given by the following parameters:

Minibrot1          {
  reset=1960 type=mandel center-mag=-0.158547/1.03401/99.7004
  params=0/0 maxiter=2000
  }

Has a Mini-SanMarco with the Julia params (this is the one I mentioned right
at the top):
Re: -0.1613432317972183
Im: 1.036044612526894

The zoom in to show the MiniSanMarco is shown below :
MiniSanMarco1   {
  reset=1960 type=julia center-mag=0.00635933/-0.00909876/10.35182
  params=-0.1613432317972183/1.036044612526894 maxiter=2000
  }
(OK, I know Jeff said that it must be the whole Julia, but this is only a 10
times zoom in, so let me get away with it.)

And so on, for every MainJulia, use the MiniBrots to find MiniJulias, here
is another example circle_MiniJulia1:
MainJulia: Re=0, Im=0 (boring circle?)
Circle_MiniJulia1: Re: -0.1556614693254232(approx),
Im=1.03176917694509(approx)

Below shows a zoom in (sorry, that it is not exact, but I need to get back
to work, so I had better rush a bit).
circle_MiniJulia1   {
  reset=1960 type=julia center-mag=1.095e-007/1.005e-007/4.901962
  params=-0.1556614693254232/1.03176917694509 maxiter=2000
}

-------------------------
Randall Britten
The Internet Solution
[phone]







-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Jeff Field
Sent:    Thursday 01 April 1999 04:59


Do you have some favorite Julia params?  For example, I found the
following on someone's web site:

    "m_juleye": (-0.7910322074096 , -0.1502158760371).

If you enter these numbers as the real and imaginary parts of the Julia
parameters in Fractint, you get a form with two interlocking spiral arms
on either side of the central part of the fractal.  This pattern repeats
itself laterally.

What interesting Julia's have you found?  I am looking at the set as a
whole, rather than at a zoom into the set.

--Jeff Field
[e-mail]


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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0AcAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADs=

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE7C2E.7D500A90--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dr I D Entwistle)
Subject: RE: (fractint) Julia set params
Date: 01 Apr 1999 15:01:22

On Thu  1 Apr 99 (10:57:50 +0200), [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> In short, MiniSanMarco1:
> Re: -0.1613432317972183
> Im: 1.036044612526894
>
> Why?  See the description below:
>
> The San Marco Fractal (as Mandelbrot himself called it) is probably a
> well known Julia set:
> Re: -0.7498431447893381 (approx)
> Im:  0
>
> It corresponds to the intersection of the cardioid and circle of the
> Mandelbrot set.
  Jeff
       Yuo should be aware that image attachments are not acceptable on this
list.It is 15 years since I first generated the San Marco fractal and the .par
file is quite adequate for everyone to generate it again.
    Ian Entwistle
--
See fractal Galleries at http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/ian.ent





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kenneth Cole <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) need help for Winfract
Date: 01 Apr 1999 11:15:23 -0600

Patrick,

As far as I know, you have the newest version of Winfract, 18.21. It is
very limited when it comes to deep zooming. I use it to teach about
fractals and image creation to my middle school students (ages 11-14).
You need Fractint 19.6 for the features you want.

Kenneth Cole
http://www.kencole.org/

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hello,
> My name is Patrick and I'm French.
> So at first I would like to apologize to you for my approximate English.
> I'm a beginner with Fractint and I use to work with Winfract for Windows95(the
> 18.21 version).
> I'm frustrate to be limited with the zooming and the iteration possibilities
> of this version.
> Can you help me and tell me if there is a new version available with high
> iteration and deep zooming?
> If it doesn't exist, is it possible to upgrade those possibilities from my own
> version?
> Thank you very much for your help.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Easter Egg Par
Date: 03 Apr 1999 11:08:30 EST

Here is an easter egg, moire style along with a few others ...........


Easteregg          { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle
                     ; Easter Egg
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08
  center-mag=-7455.29/-7455.39/0.0001798271/1/44.999
  params=0.1300804/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647
  inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0
  invert=6/0/0
  colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\
  6>zz0
  }

Gremlin            { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle  Mod of Moire Mask
                     ; Gremlin
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08
  center-mag=1359.77/1359.98/8.336354e-005/1/44.999
  params=0.13081/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647
  inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0
  invert=6/0/0
  colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\
  6>zz0
  }

pleased            { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle  Mod of Moire Mask
                     ; pleased
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08
  center-mag=1359.77/1359.98/8.336354e-005/1/44.999
  params=0.130789/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647
  inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0
  invert=6/0/0
  colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\
  6>zz0
  }

SonicSpider        { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle  Mod of Moire Mask
                     ; Sonic Spider
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08
  center-mag=2.27374e-012/0.163402/5.035158e-005/1/44.998
  params=0.130901/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647
  inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0
  invert=6/0/0
  colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\
  6>zz0
  }




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Les St Clair" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) March '99 par collection
Date: 04 Apr 1999 10:34:29 +0100

Hi folks,

The March par collection of postings to this mail list is now available at:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Les_StClair/fml.htm
(just the parameters)

or, if you prefer the pars with their original messages left intact you can get
this version:

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/crosstrees/fml.htm

The updated formula collection (frac_ml.frm) is available from both sites.

cheers,
Les






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Luc-Andre Rey" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:40:11 +0200
Date: 05 Apr 1999 04:50:05 -0600

A new update of my site, pages 15 and 16.

The site
http://www.multimania.com/warey/fract/

Enjoy
Luc-Andre


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) new images on web site
Date: 05 Apr 1999 15:19:57 -0400

I have replaced the old images with new ones on two of my pages at my
Geocities web site: Euler - Page 2 and Curves - Page 1. There is also a
new formula in the curves collection, both Fractint and Ultrafractal
versions. Please download the appropriate files to replace your current
ones.

It has been called to my attention that some of my pages did not load
properly. The reason for this is that in order to put some order into my
large number of files, I created subdirectories for each page.
Consequently the addresses have changed by the inclusion of the name of
the respective subdirectories. If you have visited my page recently, or
have bookmarked individual pages therein, please access my index.html
again, and hit your reload button. Then access the individual pages from
there, hit reload again, and change you bookmarks.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

I hope you'll enjoy your visit.

Gedeon.



--
Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html
Member Infinite Fractal Loop
Last updated: April 5, 1999 - new images - Euler2 & Curves1
Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html
Last updated: February 23, 1999 - three new pages



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) March '99 par collection
Date: 06 Apr 1999 20:54:46 -0700

Many many thanks to Les for keeping up with the discussion list and posting the
monthly pars.  I've had an enforced hiatus from the list due to health and puter
problems but feel back in touch thanks to Les' collections.  I downloaded them all!!!

Thanks again....just can't be said too many times.

Angela aka wizzle

Les St Clair wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> The March par collection of postings to this mail list is now available at:
>
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Les_StClair/fml.htm
> (just the parameters)
>
> or, if you prefer the pars with their original messages left intact you can get
> this version:
>
> http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/crosstrees/fml.htm
>
> The updated formula collection (frac_ml.frm) is available from both sites.
>
> cheers,
> Les
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kathy roth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) March '99 Par Collection
Date: 07 Apr 1999 01:10:51 -0700

Angela aka Wizzle wrote

> Many many thanks to Les for keeping up with the discussion list and posting the
> monthly pars......
>
Hi.  Nice to have you back!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Les St Clair" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) March '99 par collection
Date: 08 Apr 1999 00:11:55 +0100

>Many many thanks to Les for keeping up with the discussion list and posting the
>monthly pars.

Thanks Angela!

Actually it's not that hard to keep up with at the moment. If you look at the
number of postings they have declined sharply in recent months. What we need is
some good ol' Wizzle images again ;-)

- Les


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint...
Date: 08 Apr 1999 12:10:25 EDT

Hi Tim,

Do you think layering, as in Ultrafractal, could ever be added to FRACTINT?

--Bob Carr--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike and Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) March '99 par collection
Date: 08 Apr 1999 16:55:57 -0700

Hey!  We missed you, Angela!  Glad to you are up and about!
Linda


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint...
Date: 08 Apr 1999 22:26:46 -0600


> Do you think layering, as in Ultrafractal, could ever be added to FRACTINT?

I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I
understand it is not freeware so I don't use it.

I'm not sure what you mean by layering, but it sounds like it
requires true color support, so yes fractint will do this after we have
full truecolor support.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint...
Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:47:42 -0500

Tim,

Layering is the ability to take several fractal images and merge them
together, with adjustable transparency and different combination methods.
You can do a limited form of this with PHC and PTC methods, but with true
layering capability your control is much finer. Instead of being restricted
to mixing each fractal equally, you have fine control over blending, and
the ability to use a variety of merge modes like Hard Light and Difference
(my favorites).

The layering features of Ultra Fractal are similar to those in Photoshop
and many other graphics programs.

 - I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I
 - understand it is not freeware so I don't use it.

<rolling eyes> Tim, it's Shareware. That means you can try it for thirty
days, and if you don't like it, and don't intend paying for it, you can
remove it. I think you should at least *look* at it. Not being free isn't
this huge sin, you know; your operating system isn't free and neither are
most of the applications you probably run.

I understand why you're unhappy that UF isn't free, I know we've covered
that before. But I don't understand why you're blinding yourself. Does it
matter if you look at it yourself for ideas, or have me or someone else
tell you about them? (It does--you'll get a better understanding of what
people are asking for if you've at least *looked* at other programs).)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint...
Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:56:46 -0500

Tim,

Another follow-up to this thread. In February I posted a formula and
parameter set that demonstrated both layering and true color in FractInt.
Nobody commented on it, as I recall.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint...
Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:47:42 -0500

Tim,

Layering is the ability to take several fractal images and merge them
together, with adjustable transparency and different combination methods.
You can do a limited form of this with PHC and PTC methods, but with true
layering capability your control is much finer. Instead of being restricted
to mixing each fractal equally, you have fine control over blending, and
the ability to use a variety of merge modes like Hard Light and Difference
(my favorites).

The layering features of Ultra Fractal are similar to those in Photoshop
and many other graphics programs.

 - I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I
 - understand it is not freeware so I don't use it.

<rolling eyes> Tim, it's Shareware. That means you can try it for thirty
days, and if you don't like it, and don't intend paying for it, you can
remove it. I think you should at least *look* at it. Not being free isn't
this huge sin, you know; your operating system isn't free and neither are
most of the applications you probably run.

I understand why you're unhappy that UF isn't free, I know we've covered
that before. But I don't understand why you're blinding yourself. Does it
matter if you look at it yourself for ideas, or have me or someone else
tell you about them? (It does--you'll get a better understanding of what
people are asking for if you've at least *looked* at other programs).)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint...
Date: 09 Apr 1999 17:01:52 -0600

Damien wrote:

> Layering is the ability to take several fractal images and merge them
> together, with adjustable transparency and different combination methods.
> You can do a limited form of this with PHC and PTC methods, but with true
> layering capability your control is much finer. Instead of being restricted
> to mixing each fractal equally, you have fine control over blending, and
> the ability to use a variety of merge modes like Hard Light and Difference
> (my favorites).

Ah so, thanks for the explanation!

>  - I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I
>  - understand it is not freeware so I don't use it.
>
> <rolling eyes> Tim, it's Shareware. That means you can try it for thirty
> days, and if you don't like it, and don't intend paying for it, you can
> remove it. I think you should at least *look* at it. Not being free isn't
> this huge sin, you know; your operating system isn't free and neither are
> most of the applications you probably run.

Sorry, I won't, my decision, I don't expect you to understand or like
it. I have no interest in commercial or shareware fractal programs,
and won't spend any time looking at them. I have always had far
more of just my own ideas about what to implement than I had time
to work, and that is more true now than ever. I have never looked at
other programs to get ideas for fractint, with the possible exception
of fractal witchcraft/SOI.

However, there is nothing stopping other people from looking at
Ultrafractal and contributing new features. Fractint is an open
source, community project, and it is not that hard to contribute.

Tim

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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 11 Apr 1999 16:34:02 -0600

Has anyone gotten Fractint to work with the ATI all-in-wonder
board's 1600x1200 mode? If you have, I'd like to know the
fractint.cfg settings.

Tim



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From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 11 Apr 1999 11:56:05 -1000

Sorry, can't help with the ATI, but had it working with
an S3 chipset at the office. Using the ones that already
existed in Fractint 19.6.

Unfortunately, haven't been able to make it run anything
higher than 640x480 with our ELSA GLoria Synergy.

On 11 Apr 99 at 16:34, Tim Wegner wrote:

> Has anyone gotten Fractint to work with the ATI
> all-in-wonder board's 1600x1200 mode? If you have, I'd
> like to know the fractint.cfg settings.

Another blast of bits from David
http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/   http://www.hawastsoc.org/
For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: http://www.surfreporthawaii.com

Random Thought for this Nanosecond
If luck smite thee on one cheek, offer thou also the other. (D.Jones)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 12 Apr 1999 12:02:21 -0400

Hi Tim,

>> Has anyone gotten Fractint to work with the ATI all-in-wonder  board's=

>> 1600x1200 mode? If you have, I'd like to know the  fractint.cfg
>> settings.

  Try the following entries:

    ,Diamond Stealth 64 V mode,4f02, 120,   0,   0,  28,1600,1200,256,OK:=

Dan Paccaloni - HBT
    ,nVidia Riva TNT mode     ,4f02,0145,   0,   0,  28,1600,1200,256,OK:=

Phil DiGiorgi
    ,Millennium VESA mode     ,4f02, 11C,   0,   0,  28,1600,1200,256,OK:=

Sylvie Gallet
    ,STB Pegasus VESA mode    ,4f02,  45,   0,   0,  28,1600,1200,256,OK:=

Lee Skinner
    ,ATI MACH64 VESA mode     ,4f02, 302,   0,   0,  28,1600,1200,256,OK:=

Don Archer

  If none of them works with your ATI all-inwonder, you can use
vesa2cfg.exe to detect the 1600x1200 mode (download vesa2cfg.zip from my
web site:
  <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/vesa2cfg.zip>)

  Cheers,

        - Sylvie

 E-mail:
   [e-mail]
 Visit my exhibit at Museum of Computer Art:
   http://www.donarcher.com/moca
 My Fractal Galleries:
   http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html
   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) video configuration
Date: 12 Apr 1999 16:13:35 GMT

I am attempting to use Fractint 19.2 on a Compaq Prolinea 4/25s atg
work.  This machine has a Tseng Labs ET 4000/W32 video chipset, but I
cannot get the video cofigurator to work in anything other than
monochrome.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jack Baker
[e-mail]

PS- am using Fractint at home on my PII/350, and it screams!

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) video configuration
Date: 12 Apr 1999 16:11:11 -0400

Hi Jack,

>> I am attempting to use Fractint 19.2 on a Compaq Prolinea 4/25s atg =

>> work.  This machine has a Tseng Labs ET 4000/W32 video chipset, but I =

>> cannot get the video cofigurator to work in anything other than =

>> monochrome.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  Download vesa2cfg.zip from my web site:

    <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/vesa2cfg.zip>=


  Run vesa1cfg.exe and email me the text file it creates (qpv.cfg).

        - Sylvie

 E-mail:
   [e-mail]
 Visit my exhibit at Museum of Computer Art:
   http://www.donarcher.com/moca
 My Fractal Galleries:
   http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html
   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) An interesting effect...
Date: 12 Apr 1999 18:25:59 EDT

I thought this image had a most interesting effect. View at your highest
resolution.

--Bob Carr--

Carr3416(YAXIS){;Modified Sylvie Gallet frm.1996
;passes=1 needs to be used with this PHC formula
pixel=-abs(real(pixel))+flip(imag(pixel))
b3=(1.224*cabs(pixel^5)-flip(conj(pixel)))
b5=(((conj(b3/2))*abs(b3)*(b3)^3-conj(0.01/b3))/(tanh(0.6/pixel)))+0.37
z=whitesq*b5^0.8456-(whitesq==0)*b5
c1=1.5*z^1.2,c2=2.25*z,c3=3.375*z,c4=5.0625*z
l1=real(p1),l2=imag(p1),l3=real(p2),l4=imag(p2)
bailout=16,iter=0:
t1=(iter==l1),t2=(iter==l2),t3=(iter==l3),t4=(iter==l4)
t=1-(t1||t2||t3||t4),z=z*t,c=c*t+c1*t1+c2*t2+c3*t3+c4*t4
z=z^2+(-0.7626073214,0.084796112)
iter=iter+1
imag(flip(z))<=bailout
}

Carr3416            { ; A most interesting effect.
                     ; Copyright 1999 Robert W. Carr
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=43hCarr.frm formulaname=Carr3416
  passes=1 center-mag=0.0010622/-0.169487/0.8293096/1/180
  params=200/300/400/550 float=y maxiter=647 periodicity=0
  colors=000000<13>AFHBGMEJPIMR000OSW<11>zzz<14>WWWUUUTTT<14>000<15>apz<12\
  >000<10>zpa<6>_SMWPKTKNPGPMBSI7U<10>102000000<14>wo`<15>`00<15>000WOG<13\
  >zo`<15>UMFWLE<13>`Ft`Fw_Et<12>L7UK7SH7UGBVFFW<13>2fx
  }



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 13 Apr 1999 00:10:58 -0600

Sylvie wrote:

>   If none of them works with your ATI all-inwonder, you can use
> vesa2cfg.exe to detect the 1600x1200 mode (download vesa2cfg.zip from my
> web site:
>   <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/vesa2cfg.zip>)

No dice with ATI All-In-Wonder, although it looks like a VERY
interesting board.

All-In-Wonder has these modes (just listing above 800x600 to save
space; up to 800x600 is pretty standard):
 1024  768  256   1024 $4f02 $0105
 1280 1024  256   1280 $4f02 $0107
 1024  768  32k   2048 $4f02 $0116
 1280 1024  32k   2560 $4f02 $0119
 1024  768  64k   2048 $4f02 $0117
 1280 1024  64k   2560 $4f02 $011a
 1024  768  16m   3072 $4f02 $0118 R
 1280 1024  16m   3840 $4f02 $011b R

With ATI-supplied TSR (no change!):
 1024  768  256   1024 $4f02 $0105
 1280 1024  256   1280 $4f02 $0107
 1024  768  32k   2048 $4f02 $0116
 1280 1024  32k   2560 $4f02 $0119
 1024  768  64k   2048 $4f02 $0117
 1280 1024  64k   2560 $4f02 $011a
 1024  768  16m   3072 $4f02 $0118 R
 1280 1024  16m   3840 $4f02 $011b R

With sci-tech UNI-VBE
 1024  768  256   1024 $4f02 $0105
 1152  864  256   1152 $4f02 $01ef
 1024  768  32k   2048 $4f02 $0116
 1152  864  32k   2304 $4f02 $01df
 1024  768  64k   2048 $4f02 $0117
 1152  864  64k   2304 $4f02 $01cf
 1024  768  16m   4096 $4f02 $01ac R
 1152  864  16m   4608 $4f02 $01ab R

Here's the result for Diamond Monster Fusion - Scitech doesn't
know about this board.

 1024  768  256   1024 $4f02 $0105
 1280 1024  256   1280 $4f02 $0107
 1024  768  64k   2048 $4f02 $0117
 1280 1024  64k   2560 $4f02 $011a
 1024  768  16m   4096 $4f02 $0118 R
 1280 1024  16m   4096 $4f02 $011b R

Thank goodness for liberal return policies at the local stores, but
this is getting tiresome. I'll give my requirements in the next
message.

Thanks for reminding me about ves2cfg - it is exactly the right tool
for configuring Fractint.

Tim



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 00:10:58 -0600

Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this
board exists :-) Sadly, VESA support is getting worse.

1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes
up to 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means
an 4 mb board at least, though I prefer 8 mb.

2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not
good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I
don't want to get a headache using Fractint!

3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly
(preferred) or via a TSR.

4. Must have good Linux support.

It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions?

Tim Wegner

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) An interestin
Date: 13 Apr 1999 09:35:19 -0400

Nice image Bob!  Here's an interesting zoom into it.

Carr3416_5         { ;                                       t=3D  0:28:0=
1.07
                     ; on a P233 at 1600x1200  Apr 13, 1999  07:33:37
                     ; Image Copyright 1999 by Lee H. Skinner ver=3D1960
  reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Dfractint.frm
  formulaname=3Dcarr3416 passes=3D1
  center-mag=3D-0.00000319254152692/+0.08639684897955899/67.0551/1/180
  params=3D200/300/400/550 float=3Dy maxiter=3D647 symmetry=3Dnone
  periodicity=3D0
  colors=3D0000Tp<5>z80<2>b50V30N20F00A00500000023057kbs<7>000220457<12>X=
cr<\
  14>33400000500A<4>07D08E2BD<9>We0<8>9E96AB47A1490004409NWCHRDHJEHAGH1GQ=
1\
  GZ2<2>Xh0bkA<3>zzz<3>lprhmoeln<10>0ch0ae0Zb<3>22R<2>33I44F45C5693350000=
0\
  0400<2>A00C00C00D00000F00<4>J00<2>c30k50r60z80yA0<2>uJ0<4>07A<2>0FM<8>g=
l\
  6lo5ps3uv2zz0<10>`00<7>zyn<8>yUF<7>x4R<9>K7TG7UC5M83F42763A00G022<4>0GG=
0\
  JY0MM0P00M24L0<4>OXe<3>5Um
  }

Lee

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:35:31 -0400

Hi Tim,

>> Thank goodness for liberal return policies at the local stores, but =

>> this is getting tiresome.

  Sure!  When I ordered my P300, I asked them to run vesa2cfg with the
video card they were trying to sell me, and the Millennium G200 was the
only one that worked fine.

>> Thanks for reminding me about ves2cfg - it is exactly the right tool =

>> for configuring Fractint.

  This is the only thing I can do!

  Cheers,

        - Sylvie

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:35:30 -0400

Tim,

>> Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this board=

>> exists :-)

  Me neither!

>> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes  up =
to
>> 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means  an 4 =
mb
>> board at least, though I prefer 8 mb.

  The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60 Hz,
1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M.

>> 2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not =

>> good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I =

>> don't want to get a headache using Fractint!

  I've never tried to control vertical refresh under DOS.

3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly =

(preferred) or via a TSR.

  No problem.

4. Must have good Linux support.

  It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for Dos, OS2,=

Win 3.1/95/NT).

>> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions?

  A visit to the site of Matrox?

  Cheers,

        - Sylvie

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Phil DiGiorgi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:15:27 -0400

Hi Tim,

The Viper 550 from Diamond satisfies most, if not all, of your requirements, I
believe.   According to the specs, it will support up to 1920x1200 in 24 bit
at a refresh rate of 85 hz.   Vesa 3.0 support for 1600x1200x256 is built in,
and fractint runs fine either in plain DOS or windows 9x.

The board is supported in Linux starting with XFree86-3.3.3.   I've
experimented with it under SUSE 6.0 and Mandrake 5.3 with zero problems.   (I
haven't succeeded in getting xfract to work yet, but that's another story.)

I'm not sure about controling refresh rates under DOS, but I think there is a
small utility available from Diamond to do that.   I will check into it.

Phil D.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 2:10 AM


> Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this
> board exists :-) Sadly, VESA support is getting worse.
>
> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes
> up to 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means
> an 4 mb board at least, though I prefer 8 mb.
>
> 2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not
> good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I
> don't want to get a headache using Fractint!
>
> 3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly
> (preferred) or via a TSR.
>
> 4. Must have good Linux support.
>
> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions?
>
> Tim Wegner
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:08:51 -0600

Sylvie wrote:

>   Sure!  When I ordered my P300, I asked them to run vesa2cfg with the
> video card they were trying to sell me, and the Millennium G200 was the
> only one that worked fine.

This is kind of embarressing, because someone (probably Lee
Skinner) suggested a long time ago that Fractint do the work of
ves2cfg and figure out the settings. I tnink this is a real possibility.
Since software can detect the VESA settings, it doesn't make
sense for the user to have to run vesa2cfg and copy the numbers to
fractint.cfg. I'm always mad at computer systems that tell me
exactly what I did wrong and exactly what I should do - like the
phone telling me I forgot to dial "1" - if the computser system
knows, it should just DO it. :-)

I'll look into this. I'm not a video expert like Bert Tyler, but it might
be easy.

Thanks to those who posted the various messages about video
boards. I'm wondering if a Creative Labs RIVA TNT is another
candidate. Perhaps we should compile a list of the max VESA
resolution for various boards. If a number of people emailed scitech
about adding higher resolutions to univbe, maybe they would do it.
I'm going to ask. UNIVBE seems oriented to lower resolutions,
probably because there aren't any 1600x1200 games.

Tim

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:08:51 -0600

>   The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60 Hz,
> 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M.

This is good except for the 60 Hz.

>   It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for Dos, OS2,
> Win 3.1/95/NT).

Manufacturers don't generally provide Linux support - but the army
of open source developers do. I checked at www.xfree86.org, and
the Millenium is definitely supported. Most boards are except the
very newest ones.

> >> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions?
>
>   A visit to the site of Matrox?

Amazingly, VERY few manufacturer web sites list VESA modes.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rob Fargher <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:17:03 -0700 (PDT)


On 13-Apr-99 Sylvie Gallet wrote:

>   The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors
> at 60 Hz,
> 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M.

  In OS/2 + Win98, I run my G200 at 1600 x1200, 24 bit colour at
65 Hz.  Haven't yet figured out how to do it in Linux yet.


> 4. Must have good Linux support.
>
>   It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for
> Dos, OS2,> Win 3.1/95/NT).

  It has excellent Linux support in XFree86 3.3.3.1.  Matrox
released the specs for the G200; I expect that very shortly it
will be *the* best supported card in Linux.

  Matox announced the G400 chip recently.  It's gonna be a
killer! :-)

Cheers,
Rob


E-Mail: Rob Fargher <[e-mail]>
Time: 17:14:04

This message was sent by XFMail


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Jemison <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 20:50:17 -0400

Tim,

The specs that I have on the Matrox Millenium G200 8M AGP card list
1600x1200 @ 75 - 113 hz. I have one, but have only used it about two week=
s
between the first and (now) second RMA's. While it was working, it was
really nice, and I can't wait to get it back. I think the refresh rate is=

partially dependant on your monitor capabilities. My NOKIA 21" used
something in the upper 70's at 1600x1200x24bit, and it was not at all har=
d
on the eyes, flicker-wise. (Sylvie - is the 60hz @ 1600x you mentioned th=
e
best for your monitor, or the card?).

The docs also mention a dos utility on the install CD for adjusting the
refresh rate for the VESA modes. In 1600x1200 it supports VESA modes 11C
(256), 11D (32K), and 11E (65K).

Are you getting or have an AGP capable mb?

Bill

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:50:02 -1000

On 13 Apr 99 at 19:08, Tim Wegner wrote:

> I'm going to ask. UNIVBE seems oriented to lower
> resolutions, probably because there aren't any 1600x1200
> games.

Maybe when intel comes out with their 1GHZ+ chip, they'll
finally have a processor fast enough to *run* a game at
that resolution. 8-)

Another blast of bits from David
http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/   http://www.hawastsoc.org/
For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast:
    http://www.surfreporthawaii.com

Random Thought for this Nanosecond
There once was a man named Lum
Who always had flies on his thumb.
When people asked why,
He said, 'I'm so sly:
They like the sweet music I hum.' (D.Jones)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:50:03 -1000

On 13 Apr 99 at 17:35, Sylvie Gallet wrote:

> >> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes  up to
> >> 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means  an 4 mb
> >> board at least, though I prefer 8 mb.
>
> The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k
> colors at 60 Hz, 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M.

Our ELSA GLoria Synergy supports up to 1920x1536 at 256
colors at 75Hz refresh, which would finally let me see
something close to Fractint's max image size.

Unfortunately, the best Fractint can do with the board is
640x480x256 (We tried VESA2CFG on it, and it doesn't find any VESA
modes higher than that). Of course, the board would quite
happily run that rez at a 300Hz refresh rate - if I had a
monitor that could handle it!



Another blast of bits from David
http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/   http://www.hawastsoc.org/
For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast:
    http://www.surfreporthawaii.com

Random Thought for this Nanosecond
Did you file an EIR before taking off that shoe? (D.Jones)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sylvie Gallet <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 14 Apr 1999 06:20:07 -0400

Hi Bill,

>> Sylvie - is the 60hz @ 1600x you mentioned the best for your monitor, =
or
>> the card?

  I don't know.  I never bothered to read the docs!!!!!!

  Cheers,

        - Sylvie

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric Litwak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 14 Apr 1999 08:41:56 -0400


While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a dos utility to control the
refresh rate of a 3DFX Voodoo Banshee in dos?
Except for that I believe the Banshee meets all your criteria for a video
card, 16Mb memory, built in VESA support, refresh rates to 120 MHz,
resolution to 1600 x 1200, true color, etc., and its inexpensive! I love
this card.

Eric Litwak


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 14 Apr 1999 09:47:14 -0400



Hi Tim,

Regarding your search for a video board, I would recommend a Matrox. They are
widely respected for their rock-solid drivers. I have been using the original
Millenium in DOS, NT, and OS/2 and it is the most solid card I've ever used.
However, I don't know if it meets all your requirements. The following web site
has lots of Matrox technical info: http://grafi.ii.pw.edu.pl/gbm/matrox/  Go
there and click on InDepth tech info. You can also look at
http://www.matroxusers.com which is another site run by Matrox users (not
affiliation with Matrox).

Nick



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 14 Apr 1999 15:17:52 GMT

You should be able to get the DOS utilities from the manufacturer's
website, assuming that they (like diamond) choose to support DOS.  It
is sometime possible to get another manufacturers drivers for the
same chipset to work, but that is not guaranteed.

-Jack


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While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a dos utility to
control the
refresh rate of a 3DFX Voodoo Banshee in dos?
Except for that I believe the Banshee meets all your criteria for a
video
card, 16Mb memory, built in VESA support, refresh rates to 120 MHz,
resolution to 1600 x 1200, true color, etc., and its inexpensive! I
love
this card.

Eric Litwak


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_______________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 14 Apr 1999 17:41:33 -0600

Phil and everybody,

> The Viper 550 from Diamond satisfies most, if not all, of your requirements, I
> believe.   According to the specs, it will support up to 1920x1200 in 24 bit
> at a refresh rate of 85 hz.   Vesa 3.0 support for 1600x1200x256 is built in,
> and fractint runs fine either in plain DOS or windows 9x.

The Viper 550 is what I got. As you said, support for 1600x1200 for
Fractint is great. Thanks for the advice!

I am now (finally!) a member of the 1600x1200 club. I'll bet it cost
me a bit less than it cost those who did this several years ago.
Now I need to dig out the CDs various folks have sent me full of
1600x1200 images :-)

As with other Diamond boards, the documentation for the Viper 550
is very slim. I had a very frustrating time installing the board,
because my system refused to abandon 640x480x16. Finally I read
the FAQ at the Diamond website, and discovered that an IRQ is
needed for this board. My BIOS has a setting for enabling or
disabling an IRQ fotr VGA. Once I enabled it, all was well.

The documentation indicates that the control software is supposed
to have a way to set the vertical refresh. This dialogue box does not
exist for my system. Fortunately, the software appears to have
detected my monitor (an Optiquest V95 19 inch monitor which I
bought for $440 from NECX), and automatically chose a reasonably
high refresh. Under DOS I can see the flicker, but it's not TOO bad.
I'll investigate ways to set the refresh under both Windows and
DOS.

Now that I have gone through this experience I have learned a lot,
and we should be able to support your video configurations beytter
in the future. As I wrote earlier, I will try to add automatic
configuration for non-standard VESA modes such as 1600x1200.
But it will still be up to users to get hardware that supports VESA.
As I discovered, accurate technical information is hard to find.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Benchmark
Date: 15 Apr 1999 14:20:50 GMT

I've been using a program called "NBench" to do some benchmarking for
an assignment I've got from Uni. I tried running NBench on its own,
and then again with FractInt running disk video in a DOS shell. The
image it was generating is given below.

FractInt caused about an 83% speed decrease in the integer speed of
the processor. On a Pentium 90MHz, it caused a 90% decrease in
floating point speed. However, on a Pentium II 400MHz it only caused
a 78% speed decrease for floating point.

I don't suppose this is of the slightest interest to anyone, but the
image takes over an hour to generate on a P400 (it's not really that
good either). "AF6" is supposed to be that 2048x0248 disk video mode
(in case you've changed your keys).

ArbTest1           { ; Major M-Set Zoom
                     ; Arbitrary Precision: 17 decimals!
                     ; Use it to test CPU usage!
  reset=1960 type=mandel
  center-mag=-1.76863032411305468/0.001309533846159061/2.095308e+013
  params=0/0 float=y maxiter=65536 inside=255 colors=@volcano.map
  passes=g video=AF6 }


Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est!
(Sir Francis Bacon)
Andrew Orphi Coppin
DMU MK.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 16:55:17 -0500


> > I'm going to ask. UNIVBE seems oriented to lower
> > resolutions, probably because there aren't any 1600x1200
> > games.
>
> Maybe when intel comes out with their 1GHZ+ chip, they'll
> finally have a processor fast enough to *run* a game at
> that resolution. 8-)

There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200.  None of them run on DOS.
Neither should fractint :>.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 20:26:02 -0400

Adam wrote:

>> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200.  None of them run on
DOS. Neither should fractint :>. <<

On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating
systems as possible.  Fractint was created and evolved under DOS.  It sti=
ll
runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of.  And Fractint
runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the aesthetic
capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my screen
with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet possib=
le
with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.

Lee Skinner

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 20:48:04 -0400

Lee Skinner wrote:

> ...I certainly appreciate the aesthetic capability of being able to view an
> entire 1600x1200 image on my screen with no other Window-type clutter.  I
> don't think that this is yet possible with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love
> someone to prove me wrong.
>
> Lee Skinner

On the menu go to Fractal > Full Screen.

Gedeon
--
Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html
Member Infinite Fractal Loop
Last updated: April 5, 1999 - new images - Euler2 & Curves1
Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html
Last updated: February 23, 1999 - three new pages



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 16 Apr 1999 00:54:33 GMT

I do not believe that it is possible under Ultra Fractal, but it is
possible under Fractal Extreme, and zooming at very high iterations is
almost, but not quite as fast as in Fractint.

-Jack Baker


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Adam wrote:

>> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200.  None of them run
on
DOS. Neither should fractint :>. <<

On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating
systems as possible.  Fractint was created and evolved under DOS.  It
still
runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of.  And
Fractint
runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the
aesthetic
capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my
screen
with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet
possible
with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.

Lee Skinner

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_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) beginner
Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:25:30 EDT

  Is there a list or web page that deals with fractint and/or winfract
  that is in plain english?  I  would like to learn more about it but do not
  know the lingo.  How about a fractals for dummys?  :o)  Thank you.
  Chris

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:41:08 -0400

>> On the menu go to Fractal > Full Screen. <<

Thank you, Gedeon!

Lee

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:05:48 -0500


>> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200.  None of them run on
DOS. Neither should fractint :>. <<

On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating
systems as possible.  Fractint was created and evolved under DOS.  It still
runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of.  And Fractint
runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the aesthetic
capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my screen
with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet possible
with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.


Of course Fractint should run on as many platforms as possible.  I didn't
mean it the way I said it, what I really meant was that it's completely
silly for the base Fractint distribution to be DOS-only.  It would make more
sense to have one portable set of source code on a CVS server somewhere, and
binaries available simultaneously for all platforms.  A lot of stuff can't
be trusted to run just fine under DOS - I tend to consider running DOS
programs under modern operating systems kind of a hack anyhow.  More
reliable for it to run natively.  And every GUI based operating system (yes,
all of them) allow programs to run as full screen.  I just think that it
would save a lot of headaches to not have to mess around with UniVBE and
such crap.  It also discourages the nubies.  And I know I mentioned this
before but it would kick ass if Fractint supported OpenGL accelerated 3D,
multimonitor, and other stuff that would have to be hacked to run under DOS.

Adam


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 22:56:42 -0600

Jack wrote:

> Excellent ideas, all, Adam.  Probably be easier to implement in Linux
> than in any other OS.  As the source code to Fractint is available,
> what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program?
> (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...)

Fractint has had a Linux port for years. It is called Xfractint. We are
actively improving it now.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:31:38 -0500

Uh, I don't see any reason why implementing it would be any more or less
difficult on Windows, Linux, Be, Mac OS X, whatever..

I think the entire codebase needs a big overhaul.  That would be the hardest
part.  On the bright side there would be a hell of a lot more deleting than
writing.  I can't believe they're still compiling 19.6 with Turbo C++.
Christ, does anybody even care about Fractint anymore?  Obviously the people
on this list do but I don't know about the people who are supposed to be
maintaining the thing.  I wouldn't even touch it unless I thought I could
get rid of the 16 bit crap.

As far as GUIs go, that stuff would all have to be abstracted (second
hardest part).  Still no big deal, even I could probably find the time to do
that.  For DOS either the default textmode GUI or some hacked up window
manager would have to be used.  For Windows you'd probably want to write
straight to the Win32 API since MFC sucks and most of the Fractint code is
already in C (good thing) anyhow, you want to stay consistent and not start
farting around with C++ unless there's a good reason.  There is a GTK+
implementation for Win32 that is kind of interesting but it looks all weird
and unixy unless you package a "theme" with the app (that would actually be
cool).  For X Windows you'd want to use GTK+ (with or without gnome), it's
becoming kind of a "standard" toolkit.  For Mac OS X, NeXTStep, etc. you
would write to OpenStep (you could also use this on X Windows I guess); you
have to learn to code in Objective C for that.

As far as video, you'd want SciTech MGL for DOS and Linux without a doubt.
No more hacking video mode settings and all that ridiculous shit.  I know it
means using a library, but it's a free library with source code.  For
Windows there's SciTech MGL, DirectDraw, or DIBSections.  As of Windows 98
there is multimonitor support in the OS, there are a lot of ways to take
advantage of that (if you have the right combination of video cards).

For graphics files, am I correct in assuming there is still no PNG support?
The time is pretty ripe for that.

Also like I said before, the code should be put on a CVS server somewhere so
people can synchronize whatever stuff they're doing to it.

Anyway, the bottom line on why hardly anybody is hacking Fractint is that
the code has been allowed to rot and code rots just like a dead animal on
the desert pavement if you don't keep it up to date.  If someone does what I
said above, and then some, fractint will kick ass again just like when it
was new.

That's the biggest e-mail I've ever written.  Time to breathe.

cya
Adam


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:12 PM


> Excellent ideas, all, Adam.  Probably be easier to implement in Linux
> than in any other OS.  As the source code to Fractint is available,
> what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program?
> (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...)
>
> Jack
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200.  None of them run
> on
> DOS. Neither should fractint :>. <<
>
> On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating
> systems as possible.  Fractint was created and evolved under DOS.  It
> still
> runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of.  And
> Fractint
> runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the
> aesthetic
> capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my
> screen
> with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet
> possible
> with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.
>
>
> Of course Fractint should run on as many platforms as possible.  I
> didn't
> mean it the way I said it, what I really meant was that it's
> completely
> silly for the base Fractint distribution to be DOS-only.  It would
> make more
> sense to have one portable set of source code on a CVS server
> somewhere, and
> binaries available simultaneously for all platforms.  A lot of stuff
> can't
> be trusted to run just fine under DOS - I tend to consider running DOS
> programs under modern operating systems kind of a hack anyhow.  More
> reliable for it to run natively.  And every GUI based operating system
> (yes,
> all of them) allow programs to run as full screen.  I just think that
> it
> would save a lot of headaches to not have to mess around with UniVBE
> and
> such crap.  It also discourages the nubies.  And I know I mentioned
> this
> before but it would kick ass if Fractint supported OpenGL accelerated
> 3D,
> multimonitor, and other stuff that would have to be hacked to run
> under DOS.
>
> Adam
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
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>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:36:37 -0500



> Jack wrote:
>
> > Excellent ideas, all, Adam.  Probably be easier to implement in Linux
> > than in any other OS.  As the source code to Fractint is available,
> > what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program?
> > (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...)
>
> Fractint has had a Linux port for years. It is called Xfractint. We are
> actively improving it now.

Yeah, maybe it's high time to improve everything.  It's not just about
porting to Linux and making that version cool.

Adam


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kenneth Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) UF 1600 x 1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 22:31:05 -0700 (PDT)

> with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet
> possible
> with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.

UF has a full screen viewing mode, so if your system can support
1600x1200, you can view an image without window clutter.  You can't
currently zoom, etc. in that mode, but the viewing capability is
there.



Ken...




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike and Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 00:06:11 -0700

Hi, Chris!  Welcome!

Try:
http://www.geocities.com/~gumbycat/mirror.html

Hope that helps!
Linda


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) FractInt source
Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:07:13 GMT

I know I've probably said this before, but has anyone thought of
porting FractInt to Java? It would then run on most systems.

On the down side, I've now got over my initial excitement about using
Java (it's the first OOP language I ever used), and I'm beginning to
see its limitations. The JDK, as it arrives from Sun, contains no
"developement" tools at all, just a compiler. Java is based on C
syntax (which I *HATE*... why the hell do I have to put brackets
around the expressing in an 'if' statment?). The compiler only runs
from DOS, and Java programs can only be started from DOS, but even
DOS-based Java programs require that Windows is running (some garbage
about long filenames or something). And you seem to spend the whole
time writing empty error-trapping blocks. Oh, and the graphics
library sucks.

Maybe this is why no one has ported it yet. Mmm. I certainly think
that writing a fractal generator in an object-oriented language would
be extreamly cool. FractInt's stuff about the built-in fractal types
having tree method pointers is basically a simulation of object
orientation. You could perhaps do the same thing with many other
aspects of FractInt (bailout tests, symmetry, passes options, new
inside/outside options, file formats...). At one point I was trying
to do all this myself, but it seems I am too poor a programmer to do
it with Java (and I've been programming day and night, every waking
hour since I was 9 years old... no wonder no-one uses Java!).

Having bored you all with that mound of rubbish, I was wondering if
someone could make it so that FractInt can superimpose a fractal
orbit over a finished fractal. Currently (v19.6) you can put the
orbit in a window, or you can have it fullscreen and put the fractal
in a window. Annoying/unnessesary. And if anyone is interested in
MIDI support (I can't imagine what for in a graphics program but
there we are) then let me know. I'm into that stuff.

[e-mail]

Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est!
(Sir Francis Bacon)
Andrew Orphi Coppin
DMU MK.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Taiyo Takusagawa <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) bug in Xfractint
Date: 16 Apr 1999 02:11:38 -0700

I found a bug in Xfractint (3.04):
in realdos.c (line 1622), "suffix" is declared as a 4096 byte array.

in cmdfiles.c (lines 804, 805, 813, 822), suffix is treated as a 10000 byte
array.  This ends up clobbering memory and overwriting the color table and
the xxmin variable.  (At least on my system.)

-ken


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) UF 1600 x 1200
Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:56:53 -1000

On 15 Apr 99 at 22:31, Kenneth Childress wrote:

> > with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet
> > possible
> > with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.
>
> UF has a full screen viewing mode, so if your system can
> support 1600x1200, you can view an image without window
> clutter.  You can't currently zoom, etc. in that mode,
> but the viewing capability is there.

Boo, hiss! You should be able to do everything on the
full screen that you could with it cluttered up with menu
bars and dumb graphic doohickies like toolbars and
buttons.

David the nostalgic missing the Targa TIPS graphics
program!


Random quote for this nanosecond:
May the Great God of Databases always maintain a proper relationship with you. (D.Jones)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) FractInt source
Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:56:54 -1000

On 16 Apr 99 at 9:07, Andrew Coppin wrote:

> it with Java (and I've been programming day and night,
> every waking hour since I was 9 years old... no wonder
> no-one uses Java!).

Sorry, but that just means you've picked up too many bad
programming habits to adapt to the OOP mindset. <G>

Part of the problem with updating Fractint seems to me
that the user interface is interwoven with the processing
backend.

Oh, yeah, for Tim - FWIW, I think awhile back you
mentioned something about difficulties in making the
switch to event-driven programming. Well, if you
consider Fractint a fractal-generating engine that
responds to keyboard events, you're already doing
event-driven programming. Or was that someone else who
mentioned that?

Just curious, how about packaging the Fractint
processing end as a DLL? Then different people could
write front ends to it - a clean screen one for some, a
clutter of GUI elements for others, heck! even a command
line interface for those who want to kick off a long
imaging session in the background without wasting memory
and resources on an unnecessary display.

Another blast of bits from David
http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/   http://www.hawastsoc.org/
For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast:
    http://www.surfreporthawaii.com

Random Thought for this Nanosecond
Abort, Retry, Format c: /u ?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) thanks to Kenneth Cole and Leon Duych
Date: 16 Apr 1999 07:59:33 EDT

Patrick Lourde
[e-mail]

Thanks for Kenneth Cole and Leon Dutch for their help.
As you said I download the 19.6 version of fractint but it's very difficult
for me to understand how to work with it under dos. It is very different from
my winfract version, and I'm not able to translate the English lingo into
French.
Do you know if their is some French web pages who can explain me all the
features of the 19.6 fractint?
For Kenneth Cole: you tell me you use winfract to teach about fractals
creation to your middle school students (ages 11, 14). What about me, (I'm 36
years old!!! ) , is it hopeless ;-)

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 08:13:03 EDT

Thank you for the information.
 Chris

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200(GUI's and ports)
Date: 16 Apr 1999 12:28:47 GMT

As most of us know, Tim is one of the main parties responsible for
the current version of Fractint.  He is the only one that I see
active on this list.  Perhaps it would be possible to strip down the
source code and attempt an implementation of your ideas.

Who is responsible for approving what actually gets released in an
upgrade?  Just some thoughts, maybe if several of us took the time to
do it....

Jack


----Original Message Follows----
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Uh, I don't see any reason why implementing it would be any more or
less
difficult on Windows, Linux, Be, Mac OS X, whatever..

I think the entire codebase needs a big overhaul.  That would be the
hardest
part.  On the bright side there would be a hell of a lot more
deleting than
writing.  I can't believe they're still compiling 19.6 with Turbo C++.
Christ, does anybody even care about Fractint anymore?  Obviously the
people
on this list do but I don't know about the people who are supposed to
be
maintaining the thing.  I wouldn't even touch it unless I thought I
could
get rid of the 16 bit crap.

As far as GUIs go, that stuff would all have to be abstracted (second
hardest part).  Still no big deal, even I could probably find the
time to do
that.  For DOS either the default textmode GUI or some hacked up
window
manager would have to be used.  For Windows you'd probably want to
write
straight to the Win32 API since MFC sucks and most of the Fractint
code is
already in C (good thing) anyhow, you want to stay consistent and not
start
farting around with C++ unless there's a good reason.  There is a GTK+
implementation for Win32 that is kind of interesting but it looks all
weird
and unixy unless you package a "theme" with the app (that would
actually be
cool).  For X Windows you'd want to use GTK+ (with or without gnome),
it's
becoming kind of a "standard" toolkit.  For Mac OS X, NeXTStep, etc.
you
would write to OpenStep (you could also use this on X Windows I
guess); you
have to learn to code in Objective C for that.

As far as video, you'd want SciTech MGL for DOS and Linux without a
doubt.
No more hacking video mode settings and all that ridiculous shit.  I
know it
means using a library, but it's a free library with source code.  For
Windows there's SciTech MGL, DirectDraw, or DIBSections.  As of
Windows 98
there is multimonitor support in the OS, there are a lot of ways to
take
advantage of that (if you have the right combination of video cards).

For graphics files, am I correct in assuming there is still no PNG
support?
The time is pretty ripe for that.

Also like I said before, the code should be put on a CVS server
somewhere so
people can synchronize whatever stuff they're doing to it.

Anyway, the bottom line on why hardly anybody is hacking Fractint is
that
the code has been allowed to rot and code rots just like a dead
animal on
the desert pavement if you don't keep it up to date.  If someone does
what I
said above, and then some, fractint will kick ass again just like
when it
was new.

That's the biggest e-mail I've ever written.  Time to breathe.

cya
Adam


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:12 PM


> Excellent ideas, all, Adam.  Probably be easier to implement in
Linux
> than in any other OS.  As the source code to Fractint is available,
> what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program?
> (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...)
>
> Jack
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200.  None of them
run
> on
> DOS. Neither should fractint :>. <<
>
> On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different
operating
> systems as possible.  Fractint was created and evolved under DOS.
It
> still
> runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of.  And
> Fractint
> runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the
> aesthetic
> capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my
> screen
> with no other Window-type clutter.  I don't think that this is yet
> possible
> with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.
>
>
> Of course Fractint should run on as many platforms as possible.  I
> didn't
> mean it the way I said it, what I really meant was that it's
> completely
> silly for the base Fractint distribution to be DOS-only.  It would
> make more
> sense to have one portable set of source code on a CVS server
> somewhere, and
> binaries available simultaneously for all platforms.  A lot of stuff
> can't
> be trusted to run just fine under DOS - I tend to consider running
DOS
> programs under modern operating systems kind of a hack anyhow.  More
> reliable for it to run natively.  And every GUI based operating
system
> (yes,
> all of them) allow programs to run as full screen.  I just think
that
> it
> would save a lot of headaches to not have to mess around with UniVBE
> and
> such crap.  It also discourages the nubies.  And I know I mentioned
> this
> before but it would kick ass if Fractint supported OpenGL
accelerated
> 3D,
> multimonitor, and other stuff that would have to be hacked to run
> under DOS.
>
> Adam
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
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>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
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>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) UF 1600 x 120
Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:33:57 -0400

>> UF has a full screen viewing mode, so if your system can support
1600x1200, you can view an image without window clutter.  You can't
currently zoom, etc. in that mode, but the viewing capability is there. <=
<

Ah, but I would like to zoom, manipulate color palettes, generate images,=

etc. in that mode, just like I do in Fractint.   That is what I meant - I=

may not have communicated that fully after all.  I like to be able to vie=
w
the entire image when I'm doing any of those things.  And the Fractint
browser is a very significant tool that I miss in other fractal programs.=


Lee

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:43:05 EDT

  Thank you Linda.  Will check it out.   :o)
   Chris

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 16 Apr 1999 10:19:38 -0400

Let's stop all this swearing, especially Adam. And C++ is a wonderful
language, and I think it is rather necessary to use it, rather than C, fo=
r
Windows programming. I don't know about Java, but it would probably be a
good idea also.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:14:41 -0500



> Let's stop all this swearing, especially Adam.

Ok, sorry.

> And C++ is a wonderful
> language, and I think it is rather necessary to use it, rather than C, for
> Windows programming. I don't know about Java, but it would probably be a
> good idea also.

I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even beneficial to
Windows unless you're using MFC.  It's all a matter of programming style and
isn't tied to a particular operating system.  The trouble with Java is (a)
all the code is already in C and asm and there's a lot of it, (b) it's
really not cross platform unless you're planning on hacking, and (c) it's
generally slow unless you're planning on hacking.  There are reasons why no
mainstream applications written in Java have taken off.  Since Fractint is a
fractal generation program, I seriously doubt users would welcome the speed
hit in the backend.  I can probably be more efficient and portable in C or
C++ than I can in Java.  But Java is good for some things - for example if
Fractint had a plugin architecture of some kind Java could probably benefit
that.

cya
Adam


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:42:09 -0500

Adam,

 - I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even
 - beneficial to Windows unless you're using MFC.

You mean aside from the general program design benefits OOP provides; the
better isolation of program components from each other, the reduced
maintenance time, etc. Whether you use MFC, OWL, or a class library of your
own making, C++ (and OOP in general) provide plenty of benefits to creating
GUI programs because of the large degree of shared code, and the ease with
which you can structure that code into a sensible hierarchy.

As someone who learned Windows programming in the days of Windows 3.1, I
can honestly tell you that a class library takes a lot of the grunt work
out of writing Windows code. Yes, you can write libraries in C... but this
is exactly the sort of thing C++ is good at, and doing it in C just because
you want to avoid C++ is (in my opinion) a little silly.

To me, it certainly seems that the best progression for FractInt--to ensure
that it runs on multiple platforms--is to go ahead and separate the fractal
engine from the interface code, quite possibly in the form of classes for
each, and then allow the interface code to be customized for each platform.
Given how similar the fractal generating code is, I think it too would
benefit from being OOPified.

 - The trouble with Java is [...]

I agree with you completely here. Java is nice in concept, a pain in the
neck in reality. And slow.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:53:39 -0500


>  - I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even
>  - beneficial to Windows unless you're using MFC.
>
> You mean aside from the general program design benefits OOP provides; the
> better isolation of program components from each other, the reduced
> maintenance time, etc. Whether you use MFC, OWL, or a class library of
your
> own making, C++ (and OOP in general) provide plenty of benefits to
creating
> GUI programs because of the large degree of shared code, and the ease with
> which you can structure that code into a sensible hierarchy.
>
> As someone who learned Windows programming in the days of Windows 3.1, I
> can honestly tell you that a class library takes a lot of the grunt work
> out of writing Windows code. Yes, you can write libraries in C... but this
> is exactly the sort of thing C++ is good at, and doing it in C just
because
> you want to avoid C++ is (in my opinion) a little silly.

Yeah, I know.  I was only thinking of staying consistent with the code
that's already there, but I guess it doesn't matter because the whole thing
needs to be ripped apart anyhow.  It would be good to see the backend
separated into its own completely independent library.  I just hope that if
that happens all the xfractint, winfract, etc. become one portable project,
it's ridiculous the way things are right now.

Adam

p.s. I wrote for Windows 2.0 :)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rob Fargher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:38:07 +0700

On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote:

>>There are a couple of pages.  Try
>WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML

  Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error.

-Rob





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 14:48:32 -0400

Probably because of all upper case. Try

http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/tips-fractint.htm

Bill Decker




[e-mail] on 04/16/99 12:38:07 AM

Please respond to [e-mail]

cc:    (bcc: William J Decker/SSD/CSC)




On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote:
>>There are a couple of pages.  Try
>WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML
  Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error.
-Rob




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mitchell Berger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 15:20:31 -0400

http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/fractalintro.htm
and follow your nose. There are lots of good instructions out there.
Mitch
-----Original Message-----


>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote:
>
>>>There are a couple of pages.  Try
>>WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML
>
>  Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error.
>
>-Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
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>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 19:39:29 GMT



Sorry.
Try  http//wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/graphics_hints.htm

If that does not work, drop everything after '.com', and go to the
link at the bottom of the page.

Jack
On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote:

>>There are a couple of pages.  Try
>WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML

  Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error.

-Rob





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rob Fargher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 13:45:32 +0700

On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:48:32 -0400, [e-mail] wrote:

>Probably because of all upper case. Try
>
>http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/tips-fractint.htm
>
>Bill Decker

  Thanks, Bill.  That worked.

Cheers,
Rob



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 18:47:12 EDT

In a message dated 4/16/99 4:49:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:48:32 -0400, [e-mail] wrote:

 >Probably because of all upper case. Try
 >
 >http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/tips-fractint.htm
 >
 >Bill Decker

   Thanks, Bill.  That worked.

 Cheers,
 Rob


  >>   it worked for me also....thank all of you good people for the help.
        :o)   Chris







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From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 16 Apr 1999 17:20:41 -0700

I'm very pleased with my Matrox board.  Although a real dunce when it comes to
hardware and installation, I had absolutely no probs using Sylvie's driver.  The
result is great on my 19" monitor.

Angela aka wizzle

Sylvie Gallet wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> >> Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this board
> >> exists :-)
>
>   Me neither!
>
> >> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes  up to
> >> 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means  an 4 mb
> >> board at least, though I prefer 8 mb.
>
>   The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60 Hz,
> 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M.
>
> >> 2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not
> >> good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I
> >> don't want to get a headache using Fractint!
>
>   I've never tried to control vertical refresh under DOS.
>
> 3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly
> (preferred) or via a TSR.
>
>   No problem.
>
> 4. Must have good Linux support.
>
>   It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for Dos, OS2,
> Win 3.1/95/NT).
>
> >> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions?
>
>   A visit to the site of Matrox?
>
>   Cheers,
>
>         - Sylvie
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 17:27:57 -0700

Well....

I'm delighted that my pages are of use!!! I started with Linda's outstanding
tutorials and added a couple of ideas of my own.  What a pleasant surprise!!

Angela aka wizzle

Jack Baker wrote:
>
> Chris;
> There are a couple of pages.  Try
> WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML
> On this page you will find links to Gumbycat's tutorials as well.
> Both are excellently written, in plain English.
>
>   Is there a list or web page that deals with fractint and/or winfract
>   that is in plain english?  I  would like to learn more about it but
> do not
>   know the lingo.  How about a fractals for dummys?  :o)  Thank you.
>   Chris
>

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From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner
Date: 16 Apr 1999 17:30:08 -0700

Actually....try

http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/graphic_hints.htm

Note that instead of a hyphen I used that underscore thingy.  Computers are SO
fussy!!!

Angela aka wizzle

Rob Fargher wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote:
>
> >>There are a couple of pages.  Try
> >WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML
>
>   Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error.
>
> -Rob
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 16 Apr 1999 17:49:06 -0700

OK.....I know I've asked this before, but you know how fast stuff changes in the
puter world.

1.  I need recommendations for a printer.  I'd like to be able to do my images in an
11x17 or so format and want reasonable quality at a reasonable price.

2.  In order to prepare my Fractint images for printing, I guess I need to generate
them using something or other.  I forgot what the program I needed was called.  Also,
are there tutorials for dummies like me to use it??

Thanks

Angela aka wizzle

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From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 16 Apr 1999 18:12:36 -0700

At 05:49 PM 4/16/99 -0700, Angela wrote:
>2.  In order to prepare my Fractint images for printing, I guess I need to
generate
>them using something or other.  I forgot what the program I needed was
called.

(The harried lurker speaks...)

Angela,

Any good paint program will have the functions you need.
You may be able to get a licensed copy of an old version of
Paint Shop Pro (or something similar) from their Web site(s)
for almost nothing.  All you really need are 1) brightness and
contrast control (and maybe gamma) and 2) a way to tell
your printer how big and where you want it printed.  To save
ink during trials, I always print thumbnail sizes (~16 per page)
until I get it nailed.


BTW, great to hear some activity on ye olde Fractint list!!!
Since I haven't followed the UltraFractal stampede (more
for lack of time than money), it has been awfully quiet lately.
Not that it really matters, since I haven't even checked out
the rare recent posts.

I *have* enjoyed my visits to updated/new galleries in
response to posts here and on the Fractal Art list; my
apologies for not being more vocal.  In response, I promise
to cough up something (relatively) soon for Bud's Fractal Pages...


Aloha, Bud


P.S.: I may be poorer today, but I'm just relieved that (US) tax
day is behind me!


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From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions/oops!
Date: 16 Apr 1999 18:17:55 -0700

At 06:12 PM 4/16/99 -0700, I wrote:
>...
>Not that it really matters, since I haven't even checked out
>the rare recent posts.

Should have been
>the rare recent PAR posts.

Of course I read the mail.


Bud


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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT

So why could the source code not be shredded into manageable pieces
for that purpose?

Jack

>  - I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even
>  - beneficial to Windows unless you're using MFC.
>
> You mean aside from the general program design benefits OOP
provides; the
> better isolation of program components from each other, the reduced
> maintenance time, etc. Whether you use MFC, OWL, or a class library
of
your
> own making, C++ (and OOP in general) provide plenty of benefits to
creating
> GUI programs because of the large degree of shared code, and the
ease with
> which you can structure that code into a sensible hierarchy.
>
> As someone who learned Windows programming in the days of Windows
3.1, I
> can honestly tell you that a class library takes a lot of the grunt
work
> out of writing Windows code. Yes, you can write libraries in C...
but this
> is exactly the sort of thing C++ is good at, and doing it in C just
because
> you want to avoid C++ is (in my opinion) a little silly.

Yeah, I know.  I was only thinking of staying consistent with the code
that's already there, but I guess it doesn't matter because the whole
thing
needs to be ripped apart anyhow.  It would be good to see the backend
separated into its own completely independent library.  I just hope
that if
that happens all the xfractint, winfract, etc. become one portable
project,
it's ridiculous the way things are right now.

Adam

p.s. I wrote for Windows 2.0 :)



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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 16 Apr 1999 21:33:37 -0500



> So why could the source code not be shredded into manageable pieces
> for that purpose?

How do you mean shredded into manageable pieces?

Adam



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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 16 Apr 1999 21:37:03 -0500



> OK.....I know I've asked this before, but you know how fast stuff changes
in the
> puter world.
>
> 1.  I need recommendations for a printer.  I'd like to be able to do my
images in an
> 11x17 or so format and want reasonable quality at a reasonable price.

Get a wide format color inkjet, or put it on a CD and take it to Kinko's :>.

>
> 2.  In order to prepare my Fractint images for printing, I guess I need to
generate
> them using something or other.  I forgot what the program I needed was
called.

Save it to a really high res file and print it from an image editor or page
layout program.

Also,
> are there tutorials for dummies like me to use it??

You use Fractint so you must not be a dummy

Adam


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From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 16 Apr 1999 20:27:44 -0700

At 05:49 PM 4/16/99 , you wrote:
>OK.....I know I've asked this before, but you know how fast stuff changes in
>the
>puter world.
>
>1.  I need recommendations for a printer.  I'd like to be able to do my
>images in an
>11x17 or so format and want reasonable quality at a reasonable price.

There are two printers that I would recommend looking at, 1) HP 1020,
2) Epson Stylus Photo EX.  Both will do 11x17 output.

The HP 1020 is the same class of printer as the HP890 (which I have).
The current version is the HP895.  This printer will give excellent results
on Photo grade papers, though you will have to experiment to find out
what paper you like the best.  This will be the same regardless of the
printer you choose.  It is a four color printer that uses layering (combining
of ink drops of different colors to simulate continuous tone).

The Epson Stylus Photo EX is the Epson wide carriage photo quality printer.
There may be a new version, but I'm not sure.  It is a six color printer.  IMO,
it will do slightly better than the HP when it comes to printing photos of
people
because of the additional colors, it prints flesh tones more accurately.  For
fractals, I'm not sure which would be better.  I don't think you would really
care unless you placed prints from each side by side.

The best thing to do is to find a way to get a sample print from the same
image, using the same graphics program to print, and compare the results.
Of course, paper will make a difference on each printer as well.  But then,
you
have to deal with ink fading issues with ink jets.  Again, different papers
will
give different results, plus there are coatings that can be sprayed on the
prints
to make them less resistant to fading.

I don't think you could go wrong with either printer, as both are excellent.  I
probably would have chosen the Epson Photo EX had it been out when I made
my purchase.  I rated the HP slightly higher than the Epson 800 at the time
because the HP did better on plain paper (I needed a general purpose printer
as well as one to print photos).

Of course, to get the best results, you should get a photographic print made
from your image.  This is more expensive, but for special images is probably
worth the effort.

>2.  In order to prepare my Fractint images for printing, I guess I need to
>generate
>them using something or other.  I forgot what the program I needed was
>called.  Also,
>are there tutorials for dummies like me to use it??

Paint Shop Pro, Corel Photo Paint, Photoshop, etc. can all be used to print
your image.  You have to consider issues such as sharpening (actually most
recommend the unsharp mask) before printing.  I would recommend that you
take a look at the web site "A Few Scanning Tips" by Wayne Fulton at
http://www.scantips.com.

I hope this helps.  If you have more specific questions about printing,
specifically
with the HP, don't hesitate to ask.


Ken...



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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code
Date: 17 Apr 1999 04:12:07 GMT


The actual "fractal engine" seperated from everything else so that
whatever could be done to the program....


> So why could the source code not be shredded into manageable pieces
> for that purpose?

How do you mean shredded into manageable pieces?

Adam



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From: [e-mail] (Dr I D Entwistle)
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 10:33:51

On Fri 16 Apr 99 (20:27:44), [e-mail] wrote:
> At 05:49 PM 4/16/99 , you wrote:
> >OK.....I know I've asked this before, but you know how fast stuff
> changes in
> >the
> >puter world.
> >
> >1.  I need recommendations for a printer.  I'd like to be able to do
> my
> >images in an
> >11x17 or so format and want reasonable quality at a reasonable price.
>
>
> There are two printers that I would recommend looking at, 1) HP 1020,
> 2) Epson Stylus Photo EX.  Both will do 11x17 output.
>
> The HP 1020 is the same class of printer as the HP890 (which I have).
> The current version is the HP895.  This printer will give excellent
> results
> on Photo grade papers, though you will have to experiment to find out
> what paper you like the best.  This will be the same regardless of the
> printer you choose.  It is a four color printer that uses layering
> (combining of ink drops of different colors to simulate continuous
> tone).
>
> The Epson Stylus Photo EX is the Epson wide carriage photo quality
> printer. There may be a new version, but I'm not sure.  It is a six
> color printer.  IMO, it will do slightly better than the HP when it
> comes to printing photos of
> people
> because of the additional colors, it prints flesh tones more
> accurately.  For fractals, I'm not sure which would be better.  I don't
> think you would really care unless you placed prints from each side by
> side.
>
   The Photo EX seems to have been replaced by the later Epson Stylus Photo
1200 which has  the newer Ultra micro dot technology(variable dot size) used on
 the latest versions of the Epson A4 printers such as the Stylus 750.It is not
any more expensive and clearly has a better spec than the Photo EX.
Ian Entwistle

--
See fractal Galleries at http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/ian.ent





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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 09:42:52 EDT

Angela,

I'm sure you'll get a lot of recommendations for printers and the truth is
they all seem to have evolved to the point where any choice you make will
probably be good.  I've been using an ALPS dye-sublimation printer, Model
1300.  It prints at 600 dpi at photographic quality level, but only up 8-1/2
X 11.  It costs $400.  They now have a new model that prints 8-1/2 X 13" and
2400 DPI that costs $600.  I mailed Linda a print of one of her pictures and
she was pretty pleased with the results.  You don't get any of the dots you
get with ink-jet printers and I believe the inks are more fade-resistant.

http://www.alpsusa.com/cgibin/var/alpsusa/index.html

To create high-resolution images for printing, you don't need a special
program.  Fractint will do it for you.  Here's the basic idea.
1. Let's say my printer goes up to 600 DPI (both height and width).
2. Let's say I want to print  7-1/2" X 10" (to allow for the space around the
picture on the paper).
3. Looking at the width (because 10 is an easy number to multiply by),  I
want 10 inches at 600 dots per inch.  So I want to create a fractal that's at
6000 resolution wide.
4. I generate the fractal in Fractint at 1,024 X 768 (That's Shift-F3 I
think).
5. I press B to save the par.  At the bottom of the screen that comes up,
there are the multiple X and Y fields for multiple part images.  You've
probably ignored these up until now.
6.  1,024 goes into 6000 approximately 6 times, so I type in 6 in both the X
and Y fields. This means that I will generate the fractal in 6 x 6 segements
of the 1,024 x 768 resolution each (this can take quite a while!).
7. Exit from fractint.  If you have Windows 95, you'll want to restart your
computer in DOS mode for the next step.
8. At the DOS prompt, go to you Fractint directory.
9. Type Makemig and hit enter.  The 36 pieces will begin generating.
10. When that is done, you need to assemble the pieces.  Type
       Simplgif  fractmig.gif   xxxxx.gif   and hit enter.   xxxxx is any
name you want to give your image.
11.  When done,  go back to Windows.  Open a graphic program like PaintShop
Pro.  Print your picture from there.

Some folks like to anti-alias their pictures.  I won't go into that issue
here (it's huge and volatile).  If you do want to anti-alias,  create your
picture 2-1/2 times bigger than the above formula and then bring it back down
to the desired size using your graphics program.

Whew!  I hope this helps.
Bill
http://members.aol.com/billatny/fractopi.htm

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From: [e-mail] (Michael Traynor)
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 11:20:09 -0400 (EDT)

>To create high-resolution images for printing, you don't need a special
>program.  Fractint will do it for you.  Here's the basic idea.

To add to what Bill says, you should also use the one pass drawing method.
I have found that sometimes the guessing methods don't guess the same for
pixels on the border.  I would think tesseral would be OK, but if you are
going to all this trouble, might as well be sure and use a non-guessing
method.  It is funny, but a single pixel difference can really stand out
even in a 6kx4.5k image.

Also, depending on the size images you want, you can easily do up disk
video modes for any size you like so you can get the exact image you want
instead of approximating 1000 with 1024, for instance.


--
Mike Traynor

People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
    Abraham Lincoln

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From: "Angela Wilczynski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 09:18:29 -0700

Thanks to all for the help!!

I was thinking of Simplegif when I asked my question, I just couldn't remember the
name. Thanks too for the printer recommendations.  I was thinking about an Epson as
they seemed to be reasonably priced in the catalogue I got.

Angela aka wizzle

Dr I D Entwistle wrote:
>
> On Fri 16 Apr 99 (20:27:44), [e-mail] wrote:
> > At 05:49 PM 4/16/99 , you wrote:
> > >OK.....I know I've asked this before, but you know how fast stuff
> > changes in
> > >the
> > >puter world.
> > >
> > >1.  I need recommendations for a printer.  I'd like to be able to do
> > my
> > >images in an
> > >11x17 or so format and want reasonable quality at a reasonable price.
> >
> >
> > There are two printers that I would recommend looking at, 1) HP 1020,
> > 2) Epson Stylus Photo EX.  Both will do 11x17 output.
> >
> > The HP 1020 is the same class of printer as the HP890 (which I have).
> > The current version is the HP895.  This printer will give excellent
> > results
> > on Photo grade papers, though you will have to experiment to find out
> > what paper you like the best.  This will be the same regardless of the
> > printer you choose.  It is a four color printer that uses layering
> > (combining of ink drops of different colors to simulate continuous
> > tone).
> >
> > The Epson Stylus Photo EX is the Epson wide carriage photo quality
> > printer. There may be a new version, but I'm not sure.  It is a six
> > color printer.  IMO, it will do slightly better than the HP when it
> > comes to printing photos of
> > people
> > because of the additional colors, it prints flesh tones more
> > accurately.  For fractals, I'm not sure which would be better.  I don't
> > think you would really care unless you placed prints from each side by
> > side.
> >
>    The Photo EX seems to have been replaced by the later Epson Stylus Photo
> 1200 which has  the newer Ultra micro dot technology(variable dot size) used on
>  the latest versions of the Epson A4 printers such as the Stylus 750.It is not
> any more expensive and clearly has a better spec than the Photo EX.
> Ian Entwistle
>

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From: "Rob Fargher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 10:03:48 +0700

On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:42:52 EDT, [e-mail] wrote:



>1. Let's say my printer goes up to 600 DPI (both height and width).
>2. Let's say I want to print  7-1/2" X 10" (to allow for the space around the
>picture on the paper).
>3. Looking at the width (because 10 is an easy number to multiply by),  I
>want 10 inches at 600 dots per inch.  So I want to create a fractal that's at
>6000 resolution wide.

  Whoa!! No, you don't.  At best, you want to create a fractal that's 200 dpi!  Printer dpi,
screen dpi and scanning dpi are all different things; the use of dpi to describe them all is
misleading.

  If you are using a CMYK inkjet printer, you are creating the colour by mixing the 3
primary colours, cyan, magenta and yellow.  This roughly (and it is only rough) translates
into 3 printer dots equaling 1 screen dot.

  If you have a 600 screen dpi image, you have a monstrously big file.  Not only that, but
when you go to print it, your printer driver is throwing away tremendous amounts of
information to reduce it down to the printable 200 dpi on a 600 dpi printer.  This means
the printer driver is making the decisions about colour, etc, not you!

  Instead, create your fractal as Bill suggests but at 200 dpi, not 600 dpi. Believe it or
not, you'll get better printing results.


>11.  When done,  go back to Windows.  Open a graphic program like PaintShop
>Pro.  Print your picture from there.

  Here's where you should be making the printing decisions.  Import your 200 dpi fractal
into your image editing program and tell it to print your file at the desired image size.

  Somebody else mentioned using sharpening or the better Unsharp Mask (in
PhotoShop or the GIMP).  If you do so, make sure you only do it on a copy of your
image.  Inappropriate sharpening can really ruin a good image.  Works wonders on
scanned images, though. :-)

Cheers,
Rob



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From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 10:29:09 -0700


Bill,

>I'm sure you'll get a lot of recommendations for printers and the truth is
>they all seem to have evolved to the point where any choice you make will
>probably be good.  I've been using an ALPS dye-sublimation printer, Model
>1300.  It prints at 600 dpi at photographic quality level, but only up 8-1/2
>X 11.  It costs $400.  They now have a new model that prints 8-1/2 X 13" and
>2400 DPI that costs $600.  I mailed Linda a print of one of her pictures and
>she was pretty pleased with the results.  You don't get any of the dots you
>get with ink-jet printers and I believe the inks are more fade-resistant.

I think the ALPS do a very good job.  My major complaint with them is that
they are painfully slow.  However, as with all tools, if it serves your
purposes,
that's the most important thing.

>To create high-resolution images for printing, you don't need a special
>program.  Fractint will do it for you.  Here's the basic idea.
>1. Let's say my printer goes up to 600 DPI (both height and width).
>2. Let's say I want to print  7-1/2" X 10" (to allow for the space around the
>picture on the paper).
>3. Looking at the width (because 10 is an easy number to multiply by),  I
>want 10 inches at 600 dots per inch.  So I want to create a fractal that's at
>6000 resolution wide.

This doesn't agree with my experience, and what I've read.  As a general rule,
you are only going to need approximately 200 DPI for your final output.  IOW,
if you are going to print an 8x10 image, you want a 1600 by 2000 image that
you print.

See http://www.scantips.com for the gory details.


Ken...



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From: "Phil DiGiorgi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 17 Apr 1999 14:11:47 -0400

> The Viper 550 is what I got. As you said, support for 1600x1200 for
> Fractint is great. Thanks for the advice!
>
> I am now (finally!) a member of the 1600x1200 club.

Congratulations, Tim!   Good choice :)

After checking around, it appears that Diamond does not have a refresh utility
for DOS.   However, you could try UniRefresh, available at
http://www.angelfire.com/ab/unirefresh/ .    It's freeware, and I'm told it
works well with the Riva TNT chip.   (I haven't tried it out yet.)

Good luck!

Phil D.


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From: Ken Taiyo Takusagawa <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) tiling and arbitrary precision
Date: 17 Apr 1999 13:17:00 -0700

Fractint 19.6:

The "X multiples" and "Y multiples" (saving a .PAR to be generated in tiled
pieces from the "b" screen) doesn't seem to work in arbitrary precision
mode (which is where one would like to use the feature the most).  Has this
"feature" been noted?

--ken


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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) tiling and arbitrary precision
Date: 17 Apr 1999 15:59:45 -0600

Ken wrote:

> The "X multiples" and "Y multiples" (saving a .PAR to be generated in tiled
> pieces from the "b" screen) doesn't seem to work in arbitrary precision
> mode (which is where one would like to use the feature the most).  Has this
> "feature" been noted?

I'll check, but I think you are correct. However this may be moot,
since the next version eliminates the 2048 pixel limitation.



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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 17 Apr 1999 16:14:06 -0600

Ken wrote:

> After checking around, it appears that Diamond does not have a refresh utility
> for DOS.   However, you could try UniRefresh, available at
> http://www.angelfire.com/ab/unirefresh/ .    It's freeware, and I'm told it
> works well with the Riva TNT chip.   (I haven't tried it out yet.)

This took 2 minutes to set up, and absolutely works like a charm.
Geesh - the commercial people look stupid when a freeware author
writes a very nice simple piece of software like this.

I HIGHLY recommend this for all Fractint users who have video
equipment with no way to set the refresh. If your equipment allows,
set the refresh above 70 hz to avoid headaches. With my Diamond
Viper 550 and Optiquest V95, this little utility allowed me to
increase the vertical refresh at 1600x1200 fro 60 Hz (flicker galore
with my sensitive eyes) to 75 Hz (rock solid).

Thanks Phil!!!

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From: "Mike and Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 17:37:38 -0700

Hi, Wiz!

I got an Epson 1520 last fall, and I couldn't be happier!  I use the
17x22 sheets of Epson Photo Quality Glossy Paper, and the Advanced "ICM"
setting, and set the print quality for "fine 720 dpi."  The image will
go a little larger than 13"x19," and the quality is incredible!  I do
recommend that you use the Epson paper.  Results weren't as good when I
used Kodak or HP paper.

I can't recommend it enough.

Your other question:  making large prints.  See
http://www.geocities.com/~gumbycat/lesson4.html

Linda


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 22:58:44 EDT

In a message dated 4/17/99 1:34:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<<
 This doesn't agree with my experience, and what I've read.  As a general
rule,
 you are only going to need approximately 200 DPI for your final output.  IOW,
 if you are going to print an 8x10 image, you want a 1600 by 2000 image that
 you print.

 See http://www.scantips.com for the gory details.


 Ken...
  >>

Thank you Rob and Ken.  Looks like I've learned something new.  I'll try
generating and printing a picture using this new info and make the
comparison.  Should save me a lot of generating time and disk storage as well!

Bill

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From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) 2 Questions
Date: 17 Apr 1999 21:07:02 -0700


Linda,

>I got an Epson 1520 last fall, and I couldn't be happier!  I use the
>17x22 sheets of Epson Photo Quality Glossy Paper, and the Advanced "ICM"
>setting, and set the print quality for "fine 720 dpi."  The image will
>go a little larger than 13"x19," and the quality is incredible!  I do
>recommend that you use the Epson paper.  Results weren't as good when I
>used Kodak or HP paper.

Different paper will give different results on different printers.  For my
HP, I find
that I prefer the Kodak paper, though the HP Deluxe Photo paper runs a close
second.

>I can't recommend it enough.

Glad your happy with it.  I now find myself wishing I had a printer capable of
the larger prints.  But, my budget wouldn't allow it at the time.  Looks
like I'll
be able to get a killer printer when my budget does allow it.

Ken...



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From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractals and sea shells
Date: 18 Apr 1999 16:33:34 +1200

At 12:28 17/04/99 EDT, Patrick wrote:
>
>It appears to me that some species of my seashells (conus textile, conus
>ammiralis, cymbola vespertilio, oliva...) got patterns which are based on
the
>geometrical triangle of Sierpinski.
>
Since you're just starting with Fractint, and since you're interested in
seashell patterns, you might be interested in Fractint's "Cellular" type
(v19.6 include a sample parameter file). It builds up its images in much
the same way that a seashell does, by extending its edge, and some of the
results are strikingly similar.

>organisation/concept, but I ask myself why the Nature seems to have a real
>predilection with fractals shapes?
>
My guess is that using fractals allows Nature to produce plenty of
complexity with a minimum of effort.


Morgan L. Owens



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From: Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: Fractals and sea shells
Date: 18 Apr 1999 06:31:51 -0400

Fractals also allow a maximum surface area to fit in a minimum volume.

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From: Barry N Merenoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: 2 Questions
Date: 18 Apr 1999 06:35:13 -0400

Why wouldn't that be 346 dpi (600/Sqrt[3])? Wouldn't the fact that each
pixel is three dots mean that the information per AREA (hence the square
root) is divided by three?

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Unirfsh.zip...
Date: 18 Apr 1999 09:02:42 EDT

I download UNIRFSH.ZIP. After unzipping, when I hit setup.exe I got a message
that my computer had VESA VBE 1.2 and I needed VESA VBE 3.0. Can anyone tell
me where to get the 3.0 version?

TIA

--Bob Carr--

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From: "Rob Fargher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: 2 Questions
Date: 18 Apr 1999 10:38:27 +0700

On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 06:35:13 -0400, Barry N Merenoff wrote:

>Why wouldn't that be 346 dpi (600/Sqrt[3])? Wouldn't the fact that each
>pixel is three dots mean that the information per AREA (hence the square
>root) is divided by three?

  No, it has to do with printer technology.  Unless you're printing line art, i.e. 1 bit colour,
the image is printed as a half-tone.  It's the relationship between image resolution and
printer resolution in half-toning that is the rough 2:1 relationship.

  Ken made reference to the excellent www.scantips.com site.  I can second his
recommendation strongly.  It is a great resource for both scanning and printing.

Cheers,
Rob



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: 2 Questions
Date: 18 Apr 1999 16:36:57 EDT

Rob & Ken,

I generated a picture at the 2000 x 1500 (approx) resolution as you
suggested.  I printed it out and compared it to the same picture I had
generated the 6000 x 4500 resolution.  The difference is fairly small, but
there is no doubt that the HIGHER reolution picture printed out with less
pixelation.  It definitely is smoother at every level of detail.

I don't know if the formula would be different because I am not using an
inkjet printer.  Perhaps the dye-sublimation printer technology affects this.
 I'll have to read further.

Bill

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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Unirfsh.zip...
Date: 18 Apr 1999 16:20:33 -0600


> I download UNIRFSH.ZIP. After unzipping, when I hit setup.exe I got a message
> that my computer had VESA VBE 1.2 and I needed VESA VBE 3.0. Can anyone tell
> me where to get the 3.0 version?

This means your *board* is VESA 1.2, and apparently the software
only works with newer boards that have VESA 3.0..

Since your board is an older one, it is more likely to have its own
means of controlling the vertical refresh. You should check the
documentation. What board is it?

Bob, refresh is only an issue if the screen's flicker is bothersome to
you, or you get headaches looking at the screen. If neither of these
is true, you don't need to worry about it.

There's another way if you really need to do this. The Scitech Disk
Doctor can bring you up to VESA 3.0.

Tim


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) RE: Dye subs
Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:37 0000

Hi Bill,

> Perhaps the dye-sublimation printer technology affects this.

That would be right, dye sub printers do actually mix varying amounts
of the primary pigments to give pixels of many shades as opposed to
'pixels' made from dithered dots like the inkjets do.

Cheers,
         Robin.






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From: Ken Taiyo Takusagawa <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) tiling and arbitrary precision
Date: 18 Apr 1999 17:18:00 -0700

Not completely moot.  Since tiling is also very useful for spreading out
the computation of an image over several computers.

-ken

At 03:59 PM 4/17/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Ken wrote:
>
>> The "X multiples" and "Y multiples" (saving a .PAR to be generated in tiled
>> pieces from the "b" screen) doesn't seem to work in arbitrary precision
>> mode (which is where one would like to use the feature the most).  Has this
>> "feature" been noted?
>
>I'll check, but I think you are correct. However this may be moot,
>since the next version eliminates the 2048 pixel limitation.
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
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From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: 2 Questions
Date: 18 Apr 1999 21:45:38 -0700


Bill,

>I generated a picture at the 2000 x 1500 (approx) resolution as you
>suggested.  I printed it out and compared it to the same picture I had
>generated the 6000 x 4500 resolution.  The difference is fairly small, but
>there is no doubt that the HIGHER reolution picture printed out with less
>pixelation.  It definitely is smoother at every level of detail.

It is possible that you would see this.  I'd be interested in knowing what
resolution you ceased to detect any difference.  My guess would be
around the 300 DPI range.  If you decide to experiment, please report
your results.  The 200 DPI number is a ballpark number that for most
cases is all that is needed.  Many images can require less than that.

>I don't know if the formula would be different because I am not using an
>inkjet printer.  Perhaps the dye-sublimation printer technology affects this.
> I'll have to read further.

This is certainly possible.  However, I wouldn't expect the difference to
be extensive.  Given what I understand about photographic output and
printer output, I would expect about 300 DPI to be about the most that
would be needed to get the maximum detail out of the print media.

If my understanding is correct, a dye-sub printer is continuous tone, where
as the inkjet printers are not.  IOW, the dye-sub can print any given dot any
desired color, where the inkjet printers must use different techniques to
simulate the continuous tone.  Thus, one enters the resolution wars by
the printer manufacturers.


Ken...



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From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Source Code
Date: 19 Apr 1999 09:10:21 GMT

Okay, so Java is just too slow. I had thought as much. I'm told that
Java has a feature to link in native C code, so you could just use
Java for the front end... but why?

I certainly think Fractint should be written in some sort of OOP
language. Java IS a real pain to use; it was just a thought. I think
I might try to put together a fractal generator with Smalltalk...
maybe. It seems that such things can't be compiled into native code.
I'd write the thing in C++, except that 1: I *HATE* C syntax (what on
earth is strcmp()? You might just as well use the internal machine
address; this name is meaningless!). 2: I've never used C++. 3: I
don't have a C++ compiler anyhow!

There's so much that could benifit from OOP. The most odviouse thing
is the fractal formulas; the source code already uses
sort-of-simulated polymorphism. But you could use it in tonnes of
places. It's not just a case of having one class for the entire
engine and another for the interface (if you find yourself doing
this, you're not OOP!).

P. S. Have you seen the latest version of POV-Ray? It has a 4D Julia
set option, compleat with variable functions!!! Check out
http://www.povray.org/ immediatly!

Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est!
(Sir Francis Bacon)
Andrew Orphi Coppin
DMU MK.

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From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Source Code
Date: 19 Apr 1999 22:22:23 +1200

At 09:10 19/04/99 GMT, you wrote:
>Okay, so Java is just too slow. I had thought as much. I'm told that
>Java has a feature to link in native C code, so you could just use
>Java for the front end... but why?
>
I was wondering if, having written a Fractint back-end engine, whether one
can then write a Photoshop (or PSP(?)) plugin to make use of it. This is as
well as standalone front ends.

Morgan L. Owens



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Unirfsh.zip...
Date: 19 Apr 1999 08:31:35 EDT

Hi Tim,

<< Bob, refresh is only an issue if the screen's flicker is bothersome to
 you, or you get headaches looking at the screen. If neither of these
 is true, you don't need to worry about it. >>

I won't worry about it cause screen flicker is not a problem.

Thank you Tim.

--Bob Carr--


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From: Bob Margolis <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Par for the course
Date: 19 Apr 1999 21:42:08 -0500

Pollen             { ; (c) 1999 by Bob Margolis
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=*.frm
  formulaname=euler2_3way function=tan/log/flip passes=t
  center-mag=0.001899/0.00478142/0.4533049/1.0626
  params=24/0/0.083/0/4096/0 float=y maxiter=2095 inside=254
  outside=summ invert=1.31625778434854/0/0 distest=-1/-1/768/768
  symmetry=xyaxis viewwindows=1/1/yes/0/0
  colors=000<23>ZVk`XmaYoc_qbYq<13>D4g<12>TNmUPnUPnUPnCMC<14>C_OC_OCZN<13>\
  CMC_x0<13>ry3tz4sz4<14>_x0000<131>000 cyclerange=1/1
  }

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From: "Jon Camp" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Par for the course
Date: 19 Apr 1999 22:55:21 -0700

Very cute :)

********************************
Jonathan Camp
ICQ# 3475340
chaotic n-space network @
http://www.cnspace.net/
********************************


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From: "Randall Britten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Julia set params
Date: 20 Apr 1999 12:50:10 +0200

See below for params and URL's of the images.  Why are these interesting
Julia sets?  Answer:  Both of their c params (in the formula z=z^2+c) fall
inside the Mandelbrot set.  This means that the Julia set should be
connected for this value of c.

But this creates a bit of a paradox.  Adjacent peninsulas are separated by
logarithmic spirals.  Does the mathematical definition of a connected set
cater for an infinite path between two points of the set?

julia_connectedq2  {
  reset=1821 type=julia corners=-2/2/-1.5/1.5
  params=-0.81103199999999998/-0.090216000000000005
  }

Image at: http://www.icon.co.za/~rbritten/Fractals/julia_connectedq2.gif

Also:

julia_connectedq   {
  reset=1960 type=julia center-mag=0/0/0.6666667
  params=-0.75602743988599674/0.051815543993670818 float=y
  maxiter=1000
  }

Image at http://www.icon.co.za/~rbritten/julia_connectedq.gif




-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Jeff Field
Sent:    Thursday 01 April 1999 04:59


Do you have some favorite Julia params?  For example, I found the
following on someone's web site:

    "m_juleye": (-0.7910322074096 , -0.1502158760371).

If you enter these numbers as the real and imaginary parts of the Julia
parameters in Fractint, you get a form with two interlocking spiral arms
on either side of the central part of the fractal.  This pattern repeats
itself laterally.

What interesting Julia's have you found?  I am looking at the set as a
whole, rather than at a zoom into the set.

--Jeff Field
[e-mail]


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From: "Andrew Coppin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Julia set params
Date: 20 Apr 1999 12:44:27 GMT

> From:          "Randall Britten" <[e-mail]>
> To:            <[e-mail]>
> Subject:       RE: (fractint) Julia set params
> Date:          Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:50:10 +0200
> Importance:    Normal
> Reply-to:      [e-mail]

> See below for params and URL's of the images.  Why are these interesting
> Julia sets?  Answer:  Both of their c params (in the formula z=z^2+c) fall
> inside the Mandelbrot set.  This means that the Julia set should be
> connected for this value of c.
>
> But this creates a bit of a paradox.  Adjacent peninsulas are separated by
> logarithmic spirals.  Does the mathematical definition of a connected set
> cater for an infinite path between two points of the set?

In a word, *YES*. I can't remember (or understand) the exact wording,
but it basically requires that there *IS* a path from A to B; that
path is not required to be of finite length.

In fact, (lame paraphrase of well-known "length-of-the-coastline"
phenominon) the length of any of the filiments that connects the
Mandelbrot set are all infinite (with one exception that I know of:
that line from -1+0i) because of their crooked nature which repeats
down to infinity. (Each "crook" adds slightly to the length; there's
infinity of them so the total is infinity; see Seri'whats-his-name's
Triangle).

> julia_connectedq2  {
>   reset=1821 type=julia corners=-2/2/-1.5/1.5
>   params=-0.81103199999999998/-0.090216000000000005
>   }
>
> Image at: http://www.icon.co.za/~rbritten/Fractals/julia_connectedq2.gif
> Also:
>
> julia_connectedq   {
>   reset=1960 type=julia center-mag=0/0/0.6666667
>   params=-0.75602743988599674/0.051815543993670818 float=y
>   maxiter=1000
>   }
>
> Image at http://www.icon.co.za/~rbritten/julia_connectedq.gif

Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est!
(Sir Francis Bacon)
Andrew Orphi Coppin
DMU MK.

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From: "Jay Hill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fractint documentation in German?
Date: 21 Apr 1999 07:57:43 -0700

Forwarded message:

"Where is a documentation in German language?
Can you help me?"


More generally, any other languages?   I can update
the resource page if we have multilingual support.

Jay Hill


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint documentation in German?
Date: 22 Apr 1999 2:05 0000


>More generally, any other languages?   I can update
>the resource page if we have multilingual support.

If anyone wants to offer a tranlation then I can help with the details of
editing the help text and compiling an online help file in that language.

It's pretty simple once you have the magic helpfile utilities, mail me for
details.

Cheers,
          Robin.







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From: "Randall Britten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: Source code
Date: 22 Apr 1999 12:37:36 +0200

There was a comment that breaking the generation of images up into multiples
should be kept, since it may help with using multiple computers to generate
images.  I second that, and will give it a shot.  Here at work I have logins
on several of my colleagues Linux boxes, and have xfractint working in a few
places (only when they don't mind).

There was also discussion about a more object oriented architecture for
fractint, and here is an idea:  the fractal generation engine could be a
CORBA server.  Images could be generated in multiples by calls to many CORBA
servers.

Why would this be cool?  Just imagine yourself smoothly panning over a
Mandelbrot which is magnified 10000, or imagine zooming in from 1x to 10000x
smoothly.  As a preview, I used fractal filmer to play with some smooth zoom
ins, and even if it is only for our kids to enjoy one day, it is going to
mean a whole new way of "experiencing" fractals.

-------------------------
Randall Britten


(P.S. My apologies for mailing under a new subject but I had lost the
original mail sent on this thread.)


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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board
Date: 23 Apr 1999 12:21:01 GMT

For good links to Technical info and white paper, go to
www.maximumpc.com   This is a network with lots of great links and
info on all aspects for the "power user."

-Jack

>   The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60
Hz,
> 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M.

This is good except for the 60 Hz.

>   It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for
Dos, OS2,
> Win 3.1/95/NT).

Manufacturers don't generally provide Linux support - but the army
of open source developers do. I checked at www.xfree86.org, and
the Millenium is definitely supported. Most boards are except the
very newest ones.

> >> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any
suggestions?
>
>   A visit to the site of Matrox?

Amazingly, VERY few manufacturer web sites list VESA modes.

Tim


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_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Two FRACTINT questions...
Date: 23 Apr 1999 20:17:57 EDT

Hi Everybody,

I have 2 questions.

1) I upgraded my Pentium 166 processor to a Pentium 333 processor. There was
only a 20% increase in speed for creating images with FRACTINT. Is there a
limit to how much you can increase fractal formations from PAR files?

2) Would someone explain to me what a complex number is? Such as
(-0.7456,-0.132).

TIA

--Bob Carr--

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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Two FRACTINT questions...
Date: 23 Apr 1999 21:24:31 -0500

Bob,

 - 1) I upgraded my Pentium 166 processor to a Pentium 333 processor.
 - There was only a 20% increase in speed for creating images with
 - FRACTINT.

That's because FractInt isn't Pentium-optimized. A similar upgrade I
performed a while ago yielded a 100% speed boost (i.e. double the speed) in
other programs which are Pentium-optimized. The next version of FractInt
has optimized code for the M-set, but I don't know if the formula parser is
also similarly optimized.

 - Is there a limit to how much you can increase fractal formations
 - from PAR files?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

 - 2) Would someone explain to me what a complex number is? Such as
 - (-0.7456,-0.132).

That would be -0.7456 - 0.132i, where i is the square root of -1 (which
cannot be represented with "real" numbers). The regular operators of
addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, exponentiation, etc. can
all be extended to complex numbers, although sometimes the extension is a
little unclear.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint documentation in German?
Date: 24 Apr 1999 08:35:40 EDT

Hi.
This is Michael. I teach in a German primary school and I also offer the use
of fractint to the pupils (ages 8-12). For them I made some quite simple
hand-outs about fractint basics. This is not a translation of the doc, but if
it helps I'll mail to you.
I'm still in the planning of a German fractint site, but couldn't get to the
point yet.
We'll see.
Joy to all of you, Michael

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source code
Date: 24 Apr 1999 08:35:41 EDT

Hi Randall.
You mentioned a 'fractal filmer" for kids. Please tell me/us more (URL?).
Thanks and bye, Michael

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint documentation in German?
Date: 24 Apr 1999 09:23:39 EDT

  Although I'm not a  pupil age 8-12, (quite a bit older) I would appreciate
any information you have as my knowlege of fractals and computer technology
is probably below that of the 8-12 year olds. The simpler, the better.
thanks.
Chris

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 12:42:36 EDT

Greetings List members,

    I've begun to use a different machine, a desk top,...AMD400, Trident
agp video card,(8mb),
and now encounter a problem in Fractint that was not present on my laptop
machine.
    As I switch in and out of the drawing screen, to X, Y , Z, to make
changes, the monitor shuts on and off, "duckng" so to speak, causing a
lag in moving back and forth. On my laptop these screen changes were
fast and flawless.
    Is there a cure? Is the laptop better for fractint use because video
is "on the mother board"?
    Has anyone found a video card, or a fix for this?
Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Steve

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From: "Michael Thomas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 11:39:56 -0600

I am having the same problem with an ancient Pentium 100 with 128k external
cache, running 40 meg RAM.  Is there a fix anywhere?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 10:43 AM


Greetings List members,

    I've begun to use a different machine, a desk top,...AMD400, Trident
agp video card,(8mb),
and now encounter a problem in Fractint that was not present on my laptop
machine.
    As I switch in and out of the drawing screen, to X, Y , Z, to make
changes, the monitor shuts on and off, "duckng" so to speak, causing a
lag in moving back and forth. On my laptop these screen changes were
fast and flawless.
    Is there a cure? Is the laptop better for fractint use because video
is "on the mother board"?
    Has anyone found a video card, or a fix for this?
Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Steve

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 14:08:09 EDT

In a message dated 4/26/99 10:40:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I am having the same problem with an ancient Pentium 100 with 128k external
 cache, running 40 meg RAM.  Is there a fix anywhere?

 Michael

 Greetings List members,

     I've begun to use a different machine, a desk top,...AMD400, Trident
 agp video card,(8mb),
 and now encounter a problem in Fractint that was not present on my laptop
 machine.
     As I switch in and out of the drawing screen, to X, Y , Z, to make
 changes, the monitor shuts on and off, "duckng" so to speak, causing a
 lag in moving back and forth. On my laptop these screen changes were
 fast and flawless.
     Is there a cure? Is the laptop better for fractint use because video
 is "on the mother board"?
     Has anyone found a video card, or a fix for this?
 Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.
 Thank you,
 Steve
  >>
I got a bit of feed back from members of PC+MAC Chat on AOL...
general consensus there was "Not Fixable...video *on the Mother Board*
is the reason why the laptop doesn't do it"....but...I'm still hopefull
someone on the list has a machine using a PCI or AGP card, doesn't experience
this problem, and will tell us what they use.
Thanks,
Steve



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: RE: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 19:13 0000


>I am having the same problem with an ancient Pentium 100 with 128k
external
>cache, running 40 meg RAM.  Is there a fix anywhere?


I'm afraid that what you are experiencing is inherent in the design of
CRT monitors. When fractint (or any other program for that matter)
changes video modes from text to graphics or vice versa the video
signal necessarily changes it's characteristics and your monitor has to
ajust to this.
This ajustment takes a second or two sometimes and is often
accompanied by loud clicks as relays switch deep within the innards
of your monitor... do not be alarmed, your CRT is designed to cope
with this and no harm will ensue.
LCDs can change mode really quickly however, hence the laptop ran
OK.

The thing to remember is that even though you can't see what's on
screen fractint is still responding and there's nothing to stop you
typing ahead.

In theory there could be a video mode that is very similar to the text
mode in  frequency etc and may produce very easy swapping, you
might want to experiment and maybe find a good exploration mode to
use (it's likely to be a fairly low resolution) and then switch to a high
resolution once you've found what you want.

Cheers,
         Robin.






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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: RE: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 13:35:36 -0500

Robin,

 - The thing to remember is that even though you can't see what's on
 - screen fractint is still responding and there's nothing to stop you
 - typing ahead.

Type ahead freely, but be careful about triggering commands that will
rapidly switch video modes. At one point I was proficient enough with the
keyboard options that I twice blew out my monitor. (Yes I know this is
unusual but when you're flipping through a frequency change at a rate of
once per second for several minutes at a time, on more than one occasion,
the hardware in the monitor could very well complain. In both instances it
was the same part that failed, and the same activity that triggered the
failure.)

Every once in a while is OK, just be careful about flipping through those
modes quickly (such as when rifling through a few hundred images in your
FractInt directory).

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RE: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 15:34:27 -0500

Maybe it should be set up so that it isn't necessary to use text mode to use
the menu.

Adam

> Robin,
>
>  - The thing to remember is that even though you can't see what's on
>  - screen fractint is still responding and there's nothing to stop you
>  - typing ahead.
>
> Type ahead freely, but be careful about triggering commands that will
> rapidly switch video modes. At one point I was proficient enough with the
> keyboard options that I twice blew out my monitor. (Yes I know this is
> unusual but when you're flipping through a frequency change at a rate of
> once per second for several minutes at a time, on more than one occasion,
> the hardware in the monitor could very well complain. In both instances it
> was the same part that failed, and the same activity that triggered the
> failure.)
>
> Every once in a while is OK, just be careful about flipping through those
> modes quickly (such as when rifling through a few hundred images in your
> FractInt directory).
>
> Damien M. Jones   \\
> [e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
>                     \\  http://www.fractalus.com/
>
> Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
> in a newsgroup.  Thank you.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
>


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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 18:17:01 -0600

Steve wrote:

>      As I switch in and out of the drawing screen, to X, Y , Z, to make
>  changes, the monitor shuts on and off, "duckng" so to speak, causing a
>  lag in moving back and forth. On my laptop these screen changes were
>  fast and flawless.
>      Is there a cure? Is the laptop better for fractint use because video
>  is "on the mother board"?

I believe this is purely a function of your monitor, not your video
board. Many monitors are not designed to quickly change modes. I
have an Optiquest V95, that changes very slowly.

The laptop probably is better for Fractint if mode switching is
instantaneous.

The one thing I have thought of that we programmers could do is to
use graphics mode for the text screens, so that the video mode
does not changed. Of course the real solution is to build a Fractint
GUI.

Tim



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 26 Apr 1999 20:08:39 EDT

In a message dated 4/26/99 4:19:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< The one thing I have thought of that we programmers could do is to
 use graphics mode for the text screens, so that the video mode
 does not changed. >>

Is this possible for normal explorations or does it entail modification of
the program itself...or extra software/hardware?

If you ever make the GUI I hope you keep the same layout and keyboard
command structure. It's really great!

Steve



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: 2 Questions
Date: 26 Apr 1999 20:22:14 EDT

In a message dated 4/19/99 12:51:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<<
 >I generated a picture at the 2000 x 1500 (approx) resolution as you
 >suggested.  I printed it out and compared it to the same picture I had
 >generated the 6000 x 4500 resolution.  The difference is fairly small, but
 >there is no doubt that the HIGHER reolution picture printed out with less
 >pixelation.  It definitely is smoother at every level of detail.

 It is possible that you would see this.  I'd be interested in knowing what
 resolution you ceased to detect any difference.  My guess would be
 around the 300 DPI range.  If you decide to experiment, please report
 your results.  The 200 DPI number is a ballpark number that for most
 cases is all that is needed.  Many images can require less than that.

 >I don't know if the formula would be different because I am not using an
 >inkjet printer.  Perhaps the dye-sublimation printer technology affects
this.
 > I'll have to read further.

 This is certainly possible.  However, I wouldn't expect the difference to
 be extensive.  Given what I understand about photographic output and
 printer output, I would expect about 300 DPI to be about the most that
 would be needed to get the maximum detail out of the print media.

 If my understanding is correct, a dye-sub printer is continuous tone, where
 as the inkjet printers are not.  IOW, the dye-sub can print any given dot any
 desired color, where the inkjet printers must use different techniques to
 simulate the continuous tone.  Thus, one enters the resolution wars by
 the printer manufacturers.


 Ken...
  >>

Okay Ken .  It was a good idea and I tried it.  I generated the picture at
the resolutions  1,024 x 768,   3072 x 2304 and  5120 x 3840  (multiples of
the 1024 x 768 setting obviously).

The quality on the dye-sub printer improved as resolution increased.  Even
the 5120 x 3840  picture, although good, was not quite up to the 6144 x 4608
one I had done originally.  You have to look close to see the difference, but
in areas of tiny detail, the extra sharpness is apparent.

I also have a Canon BJ- 600e which prints at 360 dpi and for which I also
have their high-qulaity paper.

I printed my 1024 x 768 version (admittedly, slightly too low a resoution)
and the 3072 x 2304 version.    The sharpness and detail on the high-res
picture is far superior.

I read the recommended article (at least part of it) and while it makes sense
mathematically,  I have to go with what I see.  Unfortunately, this means
long generation times and huge file sizes!

Bill


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Owen Barton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 02:00:06 +0100 (BST)

> I believe this is purely a function of your monitor, not your video
> board. Many monitors are not designed to quickly change modes. I
> have an Optiquest V95, that changes very slowly.

Hi all,
Could it perhaps be that the monitor is going into powersaving mode? Some
monitors do this when there is a lack of signal, which there may be (or
it might detect as) in-between mode changes.
Some monitors are able to change their powersaving settings - might be
worth a look in this case?
- Owen

          [    mailto:[e-mail]      ]
          [      spamto:[e-mail]         ]
          [    http://www.lancs.ac.uk/ug/bartono/   ]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Elaina Tillinghast)
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 10:05:28 GMT

On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:35:36 -0500, you wrote:

>Type ahead freely, but be careful about triggering commands that will
>rapidly switch video modes.
...
>Every once in a while is OK, just be careful about flipping through =
those
>modes quickly (such as when rifling through a few hundred images in your
>FractInt directory).
>

Sounds like you may on occasion need to back out to a thumbnail veiwer
like compushow for dos (I think that was it), graphx for win3.1, or
acdsee for 9x. I haven't gone looking for one for linux yet. (hard to
get x started on a bad video card)

Any opinions on feasablility or desirability of building a thumbnail
viewer into fractint? How complicated would it be? I haven't done any
graphics programming yet.

Juice --have fun --harm none

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 09:55:16 -0500

Elaina,

 - Sounds like you may on occasion need to back out to a thumbnail veiwer
 - like compushow for dos (I think that was it), graphx for win3.1, or
 - acdsee for 9x. I haven't gone looking for one for linux yet. (hard to
 - get x started on a bad video card)

(laugh) Well, seeing as I don't use FractInt quite so extensively any more,
this is no longer a problem for me. Everything I save now has a name (not a
number) and my memory is good enough to locate a picture by name. :-)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 11:37:26 -0500


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 5:05 AM


On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:35:36 -0500, you wrote:

>Type ahead freely, but be careful about triggering commands that will
>rapidly switch video modes.
...
>Every once in a while is OK, just be careful about flipping through those
>modes quickly (such as when rifling through a few hundred images in your
>FractInt directory).
>

Sounds like you may on occasion need to back out to a thumbnail veiwer
like compushow for dos (I think that was it), graphx for win3.1, or
acdsee for 9x. I haven't gone looking for one for linux yet. (hard to
get x started on a bad video card)

Any opinions on feasablility or desirability of building a thumbnail
viewer into fractint? How complicated would it be? I haven't done any
graphics programming yet.

--

First someone should write a graphical version of the menu (the worst thing
about fractint, not the layout but the fact it uses textmode - if it were up
to date people would probably be making Fractint skins by now :>).  Either
that or they should convert the thumbnail images to ASCII art in realtime :>
(anyone see TTYQuake yet?)..

Then a thumbnail displaying image selector would be real easy.  Probably not
even necessary to read the entire image file, but I haven't touched GIF in
so long I don't even remember.

Adam



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 28 Apr 1999 08:17:40 +1200

At 11:37 27/04/99 -0500, Adam wrote:
>
>
>Then a thumbnail displaying image selector would be real easy.  Probably not
>even necessary to read the entire image file, but I haven't touched GIF in
>so long I don't even remember.
>
Not interlaced GIF, no (for the most part); but otherwise (as in particular
the case of Fractint) yes: GIF treats the image as one long stream of bytes
from top left to bottom right.

But hey, if truecolour support is as close as suggestions have been (next
major version?) Fractint'll be migrating to PNG anyway...

Morgan



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 17:24:11 -0500


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 3:17 PM


> At 11:37 27/04/99 -0500, Adam wrote:
> >
> >
> >Then a thumbnail displaying image selector would be real easy.  Probably
not
> >even necessary to read the entire image file, but I haven't touched GIF
in
> >so long I don't even remember.
> >
> Not interlaced GIF, no (for the most part); but otherwise (as in
particular
> the case of Fractint) yes: GIF treats the image as one long stream of
bytes
> from top left to bottom right.
>
> But hey, if truecolour support is as close as suggestions have been (next
> major version?) Fractint'll be migrating to PNG anyway...

God, it's about time.. I would hack libpng support in myself if I had time,
it would probably take less than a day.  Or go for the gold and use imlib.

Adam


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:37:08 EDT

In a message dated 4/27/99 1:26:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< But hey, if truecolour support is as close as suggestions have been (next
 major version?) Fractint'll be migrating to PNG anyway...
  >>
Doesn't that require a special browser plugin to view (on the web) ?
It seems jpg would be more accessable...not only for web sites but for people
viewing the sites.
Steve

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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) video operation problem
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:06:59 -0500


> << But hey, if truecolour support is as close as suggestions have been
(next
>  major version?) Fractint'll be migrating to PNG anyway...
>   >>
> Doesn't that require a special browser plugin to view (on the web) ?
> It seems jpg would be more accessable...not only for web sites but for
people
> viewing the sites.

Uh, JPEG is a lossy format, except in the newer JPEG-LS and other lossless
or near-lossless implementations.  No good for Fractint.

All modern browsers display PNG graphics.  GIF is supposed to already be
phased out but they're still common on websites.

Adam


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint documentation in German?
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:22:02 -0500

Jay Hill wrote:
>
> Forwarded message:
>
> "Where is a documentation in German language?
> Can you help me?"
>
> More generally, any other languages?   I can update
> the resource page if we have multilingual support.
>

FractInt-Diskussion Liste Betriebsmittel

Aktualisiertes basiert auf Pfosten Liste Fractint (Jan. 9, 1999) von
Janet Preslar mit einigen neuen Einzelteilen habe ich hinzugefⁿgt seit
dem..., (ist spΣt: Aktualisierter April 23, 1999)

**** Die neuesten EintrΣge, neue EintrΣge des ***, Neue EintrΣge des **
Nicht so, * fast alte EintrΣge,

Senden Sie bitte alle Korrekturen, Hinzufⁿgung und Hⁿgel der VorschlΣge
to:Jay (war Janet Preslar).

Nach heutigem Pfosten bin ich nicht mehr, bekanntgebend aktualisierend
oder die FractInt-Hilfsmittelliste. Wenn jedermann sie bekanntzugeben,
fortfahren m÷chte, fⁿhlen Sie bitte sich frei, sie als erforderliches zu
verwenden und anzupassen - Janet


http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

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From: "Randall Britten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Re: Source code
Date: 28 Apr 1999 11:03:41 +0200

http://www.julianhaight.com/filmer.shtml

(Hint: Switch off images unless you want to wait for the over 1MB animated
gif.  The animated gif is an example of what you can do with filmer, so it
is acutally worth the wait.)

Got the above link from the "Fractint Page":
http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html

-------------------------
Randall Britten


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent:    Saturday 24 April 1999 14:36

Hi Randall.
You mentioned a 'fractal filmer" for kids. Please tell me/us more (URL?).
Thanks and bye, Michael

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Li Shuigen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) A question
Date: 28 Apr 1999 22:04:23 +0800



Michael Traynor =D0=B4=B5=BD=A3=BA

> Shuigen,
>
> The "=3D3D" is an artifact of the mail program used to send the par fil=
e and
> is not a part of fractint19.6 parameters.  The mail program has replace=
d
> the equal sign "=3D" with "=3D3D" for reasons I don't understant.  The =
par
> should say "reset=3D1960".  There are probably other places in the par =
file
> where "=3D" has also been replaced by "=3D3D" and you need to fix all o=
f them.
>

     Thank you for your help, also thank Dr.Tim Wegner.

> You need to use a text editor (Programmer's File Editor available at:
> http://www.lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaap/pfe is my favourite) to do search
> and replace to replace the "=3D3D" with just "=3D" wherever you find "=3D=
3D".  I
> think the par file will work then.
>

   The text editor PFE is very good, thank you again.

There are two famous books written by  Mandelbroit:
1. The Fractal Geometry of Nature,
and
2.Fractal: Form, Chance and Dimention
The question is that which one above has indicated the birth of  Fractals=
?

Best Wishes!

Shuigen Li



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From: Barry Spreen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 28 Apr 1999 15:17:36 -0500

I have used and enjoyed fractint since about v8.0. I now have a pentium 133
with 48m core running w98. Video card is STB Vision 95 with the most recent
driver. I cannot get fractint up at all. Winfract runs, but just is not as
pleasing. I have tried the suggestions for "Using Fractint for DOS under
Win95" published elsewhere with no results. If I boot into dos I get the
"Not enough memory" error.
This is all very frustrating.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Best,
Barry
mailto:[e-mail]

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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 28 Apr 1999 14:40:11 -0600


Barry, I have Win98 and fractint has been working for me.  Sounds like
its something in your environment.  Can you tell us how you're running
fractint?  From the command line?  From a .PIF?  From a shortcut?

I use a 'shortcut to MS-DOS program' in my win98 setup with the
default properties and haven't had any problems.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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From: Barry Spreen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 28 Apr 1999 17:27:22 -0500

I am trying to run it from a shortcut. From the command line I get not
enough memory to run. Rebooting to straight dos gives same problem. From
shortcut the screen goes blank for a second then the desktop reappears.
I sort of suspect the video card. (aren't they always at fault?) Normally I
run 1042X768 with a 64k pallet but changing it to 640X480 256 does nothing
but screw up my desktop when I change back. I was, however, using this same
card with win95 and the program worked even though it was a little cranky
when shut down. SStools.ini has no fractint section, just winfract ???

Barry

At 02:40 PM 4/28/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Barry, I have Win98 and fractint has been working for me.  Sounds like
>its something in your environment.  Can you tell us how you're running
>fractint?  From the command line?  From a .PIF?  From a shortcut?
>
>I use a 'shortcut to MS-DOS program' in my win98 setup with the
>default properties and haven't had any problems.
>--
><http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
>    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
>      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
>[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
>Administrator:  [e-mail]
>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"


Best,
Barry
mailto:[e-mail]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "efeder" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Instructions
Date: 28 Apr 1999 19:55:19 -0400

Hi. Has anyone written clear, step-by-step instructions on using Fractint? I
really like the idea, but cannot figure out ow to use the bloody thing!

Help?

Thanks,

David





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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Instructions
Date: 28 Apr 1999 18:12:56 -0600


In article <000f01be91d2$fa93c320$662baccf@oemcomputer>,
    "efeder" <[e-mail]>  writes:

> Hi. Has anyone written clear, step-by-step instructions on using Fractint? I
> really like the idea, but cannot figure out ow to use the bloody thing!

Hi David, fractint comes with an extensive online help system that
really does explain how to use it all!  Try pressing F1 anywhere in
the program for context-sensitive help on the part of fractint you're
using when you press F1.

If you like your documentation printed so that you can browse back and
forth, get a dos prompt and cd to the directory where you've installed
fractint.  Then type the command "fractint makedoc" and fractint should
create a fractint.doc file from its online help.  On my version of
fractint that created a 532k file that I could then print as a regular
text file.

There is tons of useful fractint information at Noel Giffen's Fractint
Homepage <http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html>.  And of
course, there is this mailing list if you're wondering something more
specific?  Here's how I generally use fractint:

    1. select video mode with DEL key -- I like 1024x768 @ 8bits myself
    2. select fractal type with 't' -- lots to choose from
    3. select any fractal-specific parameters or just press RETURN --
    if there are any params, you'll be prompted, but defaults are
    usually interesting
    4. play with this configuation:
    a. zoom
    b. colormap rotate
    c. change coloring options
    d. rotate image
    e. etc.

When hitting a rut of bad image, I just move my way back further up
the numbered steps changing parts of fractint's control panel that
affect "larger" issues on the image.  Just learn to press F1 whenever
you are confused about fractint and chances are you'll get a help page
explaining what you can do right there.

Because fractint is  big program with many controls and options, its
nice to print out the documentation for reference.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mitchell Berger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 28 Apr 1999 20:34:32 -0400

Barry,

I am using Fractint under Win98, on my Store built PII-400, with a Diamon=
d
II Stealth video board and a Princeton monitor. I have had no problems
running Fractint. I have downloaded FractXtra and edited sstools.ini to m=
eet
my file configuration. I would be glad to share it with you.

Mitch Berger

=93The destination is not that rewarding if you have not had the experien=
ce of
the journey=94.  Jimmy Buffett, "A Pirate Looks at Fifty", page 358.

-----Original Message-----


>I have used and enjoyed fractint since about v8.0. I now have a pentium =
133
>with 48m core running w98. Video card is STB Vision 95 with the most rec=
ent
>driver. I cannot get fractint up at all. Winfract runs, but just is not =
as
>pleasing. I have tried the suggestions for "Using Fractint for DOS under
>Win95" published elsewhere with no results. If I boot into dos I get the
>"Not enough memory" error.
>This is all very frustrating.
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 28 Apr 1999 22:00:47 -0500


The only way to get stuff that works is for it to be store built with a good
video board.  Barry, either keep using winfract or get a new video card, or
try SciTech display doctor.

Adam



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Instructions
Date: 29 Apr 1999 16:37:55 EDT

David,

Visit my website:

http://members.aol.com/billatny/fractopi.htm

Click on the icon to go to the List O' Links page.  The fourth link shown is
a Fractint Tutorial I wrote.  It should get you going with no problem.

Good luck!
Bill

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James V. Fields" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Instructions
Date: 29 Apr 1999 17:48:18 -0400

David,

The documentation that comes with Fractint isn't a bad place to start.  You
may want to create a printable set of docs by issuing the command
"fractint -makedoc" from the directory where you installed it.

However, the best documentation I ever saw was a book titled "Fractal
Creations" which was written by a couple of Fractint's primary authors.
Published by the Waite Group Press, it went through 2 editions and several
printings before going out of print.  However, you can still get copies from
online book distributors.  Try http://www.bookcloseouts.com for starters.
The book had a cover price of $40, but they sell it for $10, and that
includes a CD-ROM and 3D glasses.  Fractint has gone through some revisions
since the book came out, but the information is still quite good.

Good Luck!

-----Original Message-----


>Hi. Has anyone written clear, step-by-step instructions on using Fractint?
I
>really like the idea, but cannot figure out ow to use the bloody thing!
>
>Help?
>
>Thanks,
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
>Administrator:  [e-mail]
>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"
>


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From: "James V. Fields" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Suggestions about documentation
Date: 29 Apr 1999 17:52:26 -0400

I replied to his original message directly, but a question came up today
regarding Fractint documentation.  Many of you remember "Fractal Creations"
which Bert and Tim wrote a while back.  Though the book is out of print, it
can still be had from some online book sources.  I got mine through
http://www.bookcloseouts.com for $10 plus $3 shipping.  (I bought it at full
price a number of years ago and loaned out my copy to someone who never
returned it, so finding a good deal on it was a bonus).

----------------------------
James V. Fields
[e-mail]
----------------------------



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike and Linda Allison" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Instructions
Date: 29 Apr 1999 19:35:10 -0700

David,

You may find some of what you are looking for at:

http://www.geocities.com/~gumbycat/mirror.html

Linda


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric Litwak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 08:30:23 -0400

I have to respectfully disagree with Adam. I have a clone I built myself;
AMD K-6 233, 64Mb, Creative Voodoo Banshee, and other than an occasional
lockup (caused by a cheesy motherboard) fractint and other programs run
great.

Right click on the shortcut and go to properties. Under the memory tab set
initial environment to 512. This should clear up your errors. All other
settings are auto. If that doesn't work, try 1024.



-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Adam Leggett
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:01 PM



The only way to get stuff that works is for it to be store built with a good
video board.  Barry, either keep using winfract or get a new video card, or
try SciTech display doctor.

Adam



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 12:29:15 -0500



> I have to respectfully disagree with Adam. I have a clone I built myself;
> AMD K-6 233, 64Mb, Creative Voodoo Banshee, and other than an occasional
> lockup (caused by a cheesy motherboard) fractint and other programs run
> great.
>
> Right click on the shortcut and go to properties. Under the memory tab set
> initial environment to 512. This should clear up your errors. All other
> settings are auto. If that doesn't work, try 1024.

sorry, that's what I meant - the only machines that seem to work right these
days (or for the last 10 years I guess) are custom built.  Because factory
built machines come with the cheapest components on earth.

That's too bad about the motherboard, but K6 is a Super 7 chip and I guess
not many real good motherboards are available in that configuration.  If you
like AMD get a K7 when they come out (and a new mobo), from what I've seen
they're nice.

Adam


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From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 10:26:07 -0700 (PDT)


Adam,

> That's too bad about the motherboard, but K6 is a Super 7 chip and I guess
> not many real good motherboards are available in that configuration.  If you
> like AMD get a K7 when they come out (and a new mobo), from what I've seen
> they're nice.

How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?

I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
Intel chip.


Ken...



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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 13:09:31 -0500



>
> Adam,
>
> > That's too bad about the motherboard, but K6 is a Super 7 chip and I
guess
> > not many real good motherboards are available in that configuration.  If
you
> > like AMD get a K7 when they come out (and a new mobo), from what I've
seen
> > they're nice.
>
> How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?
>
> I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
> than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
> Intel chip.

I dunno, I have a machine with a K6-2/350 CPU but I've only used it a couple
times, Carmack says the Quake series rocks on K6-2 but I haven't seen it
myself.  Generally his code runs halfway between integer and fp benchmarks
so I guess all that says is it's "ok".  On the other hand AMD is running K7s
at GHz speeds thanks to their new friend Kryo-something, that has designed a
new cooling system.  I'm sure a 1 GHz 486 would waste most of what I see
these days.

Adam


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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 18:31:05 GMT

Intel chips are not running that much faster than the AMD's now, as the
K6-2's 3D-Now! extensions increase bandwidth for FPU, etc.  In fatc, the
bandwidth is wider than Intel's SIMD on the PIIIs!  Also, since Intel IS NOT
the market leader (in sales) anymore, the other manufacturers are waking up
and getting out of bed with Intel.

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Adam,

 > That's too bad about the motherboard, but K6 is a Super 7 chip and I
guess
 > not many real good motherboards are available in that configuration.  If
you
 > like AMD get a K7 when they come out (and a new mobo), from what I've
seen
 > they're nice.

How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?

I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
Intel chip.


Ken...



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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 18:35:50 GMT

3D-Now! makes the system think that it has a 3D accelerator card (Voodoo2,
etc), when in fact it does not.  Therefore, the system will run software
that REQUIRES an accelerator card. Basically, AMD finally did something
right.  Yes, the 350MHz processor would be the slowest that I would go with
on K6-2s, though.  My advice, wait for the K6-3s to become available.

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 >
 > Adam,
 >
 > > That's too bad about the motherboard, but K6 is a Super 7 chip and I
guess
 > > not many real good motherboards are available in that configuration.
If
you
 > > like AMD get a K7 when they come out (and a new mobo), from what I've
seen
 > > they're nice.
 >
 > How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?
 >
 > I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
 > than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
 > Intel chip.

I dunno, I have a machine with a K6-2/350 CPU but I've only used it a couple
times, Carmack says the Quake series rocks on K6-2 but I haven't seen it
myself.  Generally his code runs halfway between integer and fp benchmarks
so I guess all that says is it's "ok".  On the other hand AMD is running K7s
at GHz speeds thanks to their new friend Kryo-something, that has designed a
new cooling system.  I'm sure a 1 GHz 486 would waste most of what I see
these days.

Adam


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From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 11:33:08 -0700 (PDT)


> Intel chips are not running that much faster than the AMD's now, as the
> K6-2's 3D-Now! extensions increase bandwidth for FPU, etc.  In fatc, the
> bandwidth is wider than Intel's SIMD on the PIIIs!  Also, since Intel IS NOT
> the market leader (in sales) anymore, the other manufacturers are waking up
> and getting out of bed with Intel.

That's encouraging.  All I'm familiar with is that the FPU performance
on the K6 really sucks compared to Intel.


Ken...




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From: "Adam Leggett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 13:44:43 -0500



> 3D-Now! makes the system think that it has a 3D accelerator card (Voodoo2,
> etc), when in fact it does not.  Therefore, the system will run software
> that REQUIRES an accelerator card. Basically, AMD finally did something
> right.  Yes, the 350MHz processor would be the slowest that I would go
with
> on K6-2s, though.  My advice, wait for the K6-3s to become available.

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean by making the system think it has an
accelerator card, care to elaborate?

Thanks
adam


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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 14:34:45 -0500

Jack,

 - Intel chips are not running that much faster than the AMD's now, as
 - the K6-2's 3D-Now! extensions increase bandwidth for FPU, etc.

Clock speed isn't everything. For integer performance, AMD chips are great.
3D-Now doesn't significantly improve the FPU performance that I have seen
versus the earlier K6 processors. The problem isn't bandwidth, either; the
problem is the FPU in the K6 is not pipelined and takes more than one cycle
to perform most operations. In contrast, even the Pentium FPU is pipelined
for basic operations (move, add, multiply) and has a throughput of one
operation per cycle with free parallel moves. This is why Pentium-optimized
FPU code runs so much faster than AMD-optimized code; it exploits this
pipelining and keeps the FPU busy doing operations at peak speed.

The K7 is an entirely different story, as I said; it should be more than a
match for the P-III. Not due to 3D-Now (which, I should point out, is
almost as useless for fractals as MMX) but because AMD finally redesigned
the FPU.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 14:27:22 -0500

Ken,

 - How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?

K6-2: approximately half an equivalently-clocked P-II. The FPU on the K6-2
isn't significantly faster than the FPU on the original K6.

K7: according to the spec this FPU can manage an add, a multiply, and a
move all in the same cycle. If this bears out, it will actually be higher
performance than the P-II.

 - I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
 - than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
 - Intel chip.

Right. The ratio of Pentium:K6 FPU performance is something like 2.3 or
2.4, last time I ran those benchmarks.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 14:29:54 -0500

Adam,

 - I'm sure a 1 GHz 486 would waste most of what I see these days.

Er, not quite. If you're comparing FPU speeds, it's not even a close
match--a 350MHz P-II will run rings around the hypothetical 1GHz 486 at FPU
ops, because the 486 FPU just isn't that fast. That's why when Quake came
out, it required an FPU--the FPU multiply on the Pentium is a lot faster
than the integer multiply.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 19:44:51 GMT

It enables the system to use software that actively seeks a 3D accelerator
(ie:MS Motocross Madness), without an added card.  Graphics and other FPU
functions are greatly enhanced.

-Jack

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 > 3D-Now! makes the system think that it has a 3D accelerator card
(Voodoo2,
 > etc), when in fact it does not.  Therefore, the system will run software
 > that REQUIRES an accelerator card. Basically, AMD finally did something
 > right.  Yes, the 350MHz processor would be the slowest that I would go
with
 > on K6-2s, though.  My advice, wait for the K6-3s to become available.

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean by making the system think it has an
accelerator card, care to elaborate?

Thanks
adam


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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 19:47:21 GMT

It is not possible - according to the physics of CPU architecture - to get a
80486 processor to run at 1GHz.

-Jack

Adam,

  - I'm sure a 1 GHz 486 would waste most of what I see these days.

Er, not quite. If you're comparing FPU speeds, it's not even a close
match--a 350MHz P-II will run rings around the hypothetical 1GHz 486 at FPU
ops, because the 486 FPU just isn't that fast. That's why when Quake came
out, it required an FPU--the FPU multiply on the Pentium is a lot faster
than the integer multiply.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                     \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 19:49:20 GMT

Not to seem argumentative, but if it is able to run consequtive processes,
does that not effectively increase the overall speed of the FPU?

-Jack

Ken,

  - How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?

K6-2: approximately half an equivalently-clocked P-II. The FPU on the K6-2
isn't significantly faster than the FPU on the original K6.

K7: according to the spec this FPU can manage an add, a multiply, and a
move all in the same cycle. If this bears out, it will actually be higher
performance than the P-II.

  - I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
  - than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
  - Intel chip.

Right. The ratio of Pentium:K6 FPU performance is something like 2.3 or
2.4, last time I ran those benchmarks.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                     \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 19:56:08 GMT


Oops- I mean concurrently, not consequtively.....Jack :)
Not to seem argumentative, but if it is able to run consequtive processes,
does that not effectively increase the overall speed of the FPU?

-Jack

Ken,

  - How is the floating point performance on the K6 II or the K7?

K6-2: approximately half an equivalently-clocked P-II. The FPU on the K6-2
isn't significantly faster than the FPU on the original K6.

K7: according to the spec this FPU can manage an add, a multiply, and a
move all in the same cycle. If this bears out, it will actually be higher
performance than the P-II.

  - I had a K6-166 and swapped it out for a Pentium MMX 233.  I got more
  - than a 2x increase in floating point performance just by going to an
  - Intel chip.

Right. The ratio of Pentium:K6 FPU performance is something like 2.3 or
2.4, last time I ran those benchmarks.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                     \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 15:17:00 -0500

Jack,

As I said, the K7 supposedly can perform simultaneous FPU ops; until I've
personally seen one run, I won't say. I saw specs that said the K6-2 was
supposed to have an optimized FPU, but in practice it doesn't. Ditto for
Cyrix.

If you read what I wrote, I said the K7, if it performs as the specs
indicate, will be a serious competitor for the P-III in the FPU department.
(It is unquestionably competent in the integer department.) The K6-2 is
*not* a good FPU substitute for a Pentium or Pentium-II.

Keep in mind all this is fairly academic for the current version of
FractInt, which is not Pentium-optimized. I am sure future versions will be
better optimized, but if FractInt is all you are running, the difference is
not *as* great as it could be.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Jack Baker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Running under windows98
Date: 30 Apr 1999 20:37:54 GMT

From my experience, other than the networking problems with AMD processors,
they are excellent CPUs.  While they are not quite as fast as Intel's on
most applications, on some applications I have seen them be faster.  But,
personally, I am an Intel person.  All but one of my machines at home have
Intel processors, and I will not buy anything else for the office.  The one
machine at home that is not Intel is an AMD K6/266.  (a pretty quick little
machine, but the Intel Pentium 133 that I have is just as fast).  Of course,
as I said, the AMDs do not like being networked.  Something to do with FPU
on the K6, and God only knows on the K6-2.

-Jack

Hopefully the K7 will live up to predictions.  They are definitely giving
Intel a run for the money in the sales department right now though.  I guess
when you do not want to make a 60% profit, you can sell your processors for
less money!


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